Reciprocity? What's That?

Stella L. Jatras reports on the building of a grand new mosque in Athens:

Greek authorities have given approval for a mosque to be built in Athens. Saudi Arabia first requested that the mosque be built near the Athens airport. Undoubtedly, the intent was that the first thing tourists and visitors to Greece would see would be the huge mosque, giving the impression that Greece was or soon would be a Muslim country rather than a Christian one. Fortunately, this did not happen.

Saudi Arabia made its original proposal for the mosque in 1983; some local citizens and the powerful Greek Orthodox Church objected. European critics shamed Athens for being the only capital in Europe not to have a mosque. An International Herald Tribune article in 2007 reported that a large-size temporary mosque had been established in an abandoned factory at Moschato in the greater Athens area. It lacked minarets, and its presence has not created any issues with the locals. Now, the state-funded mosque is to be built on 18 acres currently used by the Greek Navy, according to Greece's Ekathimerini newspaper, in an area of the city that is being revitalized as a sports and parks complex.

"State funded" merely means that instead of the wealthy Saudi government building the mosque, Greek citizens, the majority of whom oppose the building of a mosque, are now committed to pay for a project which they find offensive. To see the crescent and to hear the Islamic call to prayer (five times a day) once again is but a painful reminder of Greece's submission of 400 years under Islamic rule, the tragedy of Cyprus, the present day persecution of Greeks in Constantinople (today's Istanbul), and the slaughter of Greeks, Armenians and Assyrians in Asia Minor.

Greeks would do well to look at the example of how the breakaway Serbian province of Kosovo proclaimed independence after gaining a Muslim Albanian majority. The camel's nose under the tent is more than a quaint expression. During NATO's bombing of Kosovo, ethnic Albanians fled to Orthodox Christian countries such as Greece, Romania and Bulgaria. As their numbers increase, there are more demands for satisfying their religious needs. That is how it starts. In Kosovo, ethnic Albanian Muslims crossed illegally into Christian Kosovo. They first demanded autonomy, which they got. Then they fought for and were granted Independence, gratis, by the U.S. administration. If Greece isn't more careful, she will soon be confronted with an ever-growing Islamic population that will demand that Greece remove the Cross from her flag because it offends them.

Author Ioannis Michaletos writes in his commentary entitled, "Greater Albania's attack on Europe":

As it can be understood, the Albanian nationalists are mainly interested in creating a larger state by encompassing all Albanian minorities in the neighboring states. Inevitably that means conflicts across the Balkans for years to come, and it is puzzling how the international community is not interested enough to control the aims of the Albanians that first and foremost put in danger the European prospects of the whole of the region.

According to the Greek newspaper Elefherotypia in the November 7, 2007, issue, the Greek government has also committed itself to establishing a cemetery for Muslims in the Athens area, in addition to the planned Athens mosque. A series of new mosques is also being built for Greek citizens of the Muslim faith in Thrace. These are built with private donations (although there are suspicions that Turkey may be involved in the financing). There have been some disputes with Greek government zoning authorities, which regulate the height of the structures and do not permit minarets above a certain height. The local Greek Muslims reportedly want to have higher minarets than what is permitted, and "do not mind" whether or not they can withstand an earthquake.

In "The Real Greek Tragedy," Ioannis Kolovos writes:

Taking into account that Greece’s total population is about 11,000,000 then, officially, non-Greek immigrants make-up 8.2% of the country’s total population. In US terms, this would be the equivalent of receiving a population of 17,000,000 ex post facto regularized immigrants (through amnesty bills) and 8,200,000 illegal immigrants in the last 18 years.

The Greek governments made a catastrophic mistake in starting the dominoes of successive regularizations falling. This policy sent out the wrong message. It gave the impression that Greece is soft touch and if someone somehow makes it into the country they will get a chance of regularization sooner or later. Moreover, Greek governments, by offering regularization, essentially rewarded the breach of the law both by illegal immigrants (illegal entry/stay) and by those who employed them (hire of illegal labor).

And so it keeps coming! Mosques, cultural centers, cemeteries, legal and illegal Muslims from the entire Islamic world.

Don't think that what happened to the Serbs cannot happen to the Greeks. Serbia, as well as Greece, was our ally in two world wars. Now that the rhetoric with Russia is again heating up, Turkey will once again become more vital to United States security interests than will Greece. Loyalty seems no longer to be a word in our American dictionary.

Hasn't anyone ever heard of reciprocity? Hasn't anyone in the Greek government the courage to speak up and say to the Saudis, "You can have your mosque in Athens as soon as you let us build our Orthodox church in Riyadh, the capital of Saudi Arabia”? The same holds true regarding the United States and all the European nations, as thousands of mosques have sprung up, many funded by Saudi Arabia, without reciprocity.

In my estimation, Greek authorities are making a terrible mistake. One only need look at the tragedy of Kosovo or moves to establish Sharia Law, as we are seeing now in Great Britain. Today, there are more practicing Muslims in Britain than there are practicing Anglicans. If Greece is not more careful, she will soon be confronted with an ever growing Islamic population whose demands may someday cost Greece her very existence or national identity.

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19 Comments

This sounds like the Trojan horse in reverse. In the Trojan war, the Greeks managed to break into Troy using that wooden horse, and once in, wreaked havoc, killing King Priam and ultimately rescuing Helen. This time, it looks like the shoe is on the other foot (okay, Saudi Arabia ≠ Turkey, where Troy was), but it would be really surprising if the Greeks, despite their demented Leftist leanings, fell for it.

It would be a real Greek tragedy if what happened in Bosnia and Albania ended up in Greece. Even without Christianity, the ancient Greek religion (Zeus, Athena and all that) was far superior to anything Islam ever was or will be.

Greece and the UK are the two most Judeophobic European nations. Not coincidentally, they are likely to be the first to capitulate to Islam. After we save their asses in World War IV they may very well still not understand the connection. And Italy is the least Judeophobic and may very well be the first to pull out of the EU. I don't see them letting Islam overrun them. They get it.

Those Somali pirates may very well be planning to overrun Greece, which is a series of islands, not unlike Indonesia. It's harder to fend off jihad when only tiny bits of your country are landlocked. I could see it happening. My mother is dead-set on taking a cruise off the coast of Turkey and she simply won't listen to me when I tell her to go anywhere, anywhere else.

"European critics shamed Athens for being the only capital in Europe not to have a mosque."
-- from the article above


Those critics "shamed Athens"? For what? For having endured centuries of Ottoman (Muslim) rule, which might have made Greeks, like non-Muslims in the Balkans, a bit more wary of non-Greek Muslims bearing gifts?

The Greek government should look at its "European" neighbors. Look at what has happened in Kosovo, to ancient Serbian churches and monasteries. Look at France, look at the Netherlands, look at Great Britain, look at Denmark, look at Norway, look at Belgium, look at Germany, look at Sweden, look at Spain, look at Italy. No matter what the national origin of most of the Muslims in question -- Turks in Germany, Moroccoans in Spain, Pakistanis in Great Britain, Moroccans in The Netherlands, Algerians (and other maghrebins) in France, Somalis and Libyans and Egyptians in Italy, and Kurds and assorted Arabs in the Scandinavian lands -- and no matter what the particular European country (from Germany and Spain, neither a model of tolerance in the past, to Denmark and The Netherlands, that have both elevated easygoing tolerance to a national religion) -- the result, when there have been attempts to accommodate Muslim demands, have always been the same. Not heavenly harmony, but rather, more and more and more demands, as Muslims settle in, to lands they have no trouble thinking of, and exhibiting behavior reflective of that thought, as their own, as only under the temporary, and unjust, control of Infidels whose claim to any of Allah's lands is of course a mistake, one that in due time will be corrected.

What will be next. Demands that Andalusian Spain, Half of France, all of the Balkans, Greece and most of Hungary be given over to to Muslims since they once ruled there? Let them build their Mosque in hell where it belongs.

How many Christian Orthodox churches are there in Saudi Arabia?

The building of one mosque is not an important thing.
After all it will be only one,in an area which is now without residents (because if they tried to build it in normal neighbourhood as before they would have to face reactions).There is pressure from both EU and US.For reasons you know the fact that there is a European capital without a mosque is considered a scandal and the delay tactics of the government can not continue for ever.
Far more important is the matter of illegal immigrants coming with boats from Turkey -mainly Afghans,Iraqis and others.There is no solution to this except of the sinking of the boats which is inhuman and forbidden.
The presence of Islam is not yet felt in Greece despite the immigrants as Greece is not constitutionally a secular country but a Christian one and they keep a low profile.
But everybody senses that this will change if the rest of Europe continues the same path.

The building of one mosque is not an important thing.
After all it will be only one,in an area which is now without residents (because if they tried to build it in normal neighbourhood as before they would have to face reactions).There is pressure from both EU and US.For reasons you know the fact that there is a European capital without a mosque is considered a scandal and the delay tactics of the government can not continue for ever.
Far more important is the matter of illegal immigrants coming with boats from Turkey -mainly Afghans,Iraqis and others.There is no solution to this except of the sinking of the boats which is inhuman and forbidden.
The presence of Islam is not yet felt in Greece despite the immigrants as Greece is not constitutionally a secular country but a Christian one and they keep a low profile.
But everybody senses that this will change if the rest of Europe continues the same path.

In the early 90s, a Saudi-based group petitioned a local Swiss city government to allow construction of a major mosque (was it in Bern or Geneva?). The Swiss response was uncharacteristically demanding of reciprocity; they agreed to allow said construction if a Swiss Protestant community were allowed to construct a church in Jeddah.

The Saudi group quietly shelved the entire project.

I haven't thought or spoken of the event since it happened, but I remember it now because of the title of this article, and I remember the glee that I felt then, as I was just beginning to grasp the true nature of Islam and the epochal struggle that awaited us.

But of course the early 90s was - in a sense - eons ago, and since then, mosques have proliferated throughout Europe. The Swiss today may have a problem with minarets, but not with the idea of the mosque itself.

I've maintained for a long time that the day a Christian, Jew, or Hindu living in Saudi Arabia can worship freely in a church, synagogue or temple, this will be the tell-tale sign that we have won. Of course, it may be a cold day in hell.

Reciprocity indeed.

Jdamn
you wrote:
"Greece and the UK are the two most Judeophobic European nations".

hotzaat dibah!

Le shaim shamaim! on what information do you base the above statement?
As I happen to belong to the first mentioned nation, sliha aval I take it as an offense to be called judeophobic.

"After we save their asses in World War IV" (is this a typo?)

Posted by: jdamn at November 25, 2008 10:17 AM

Kol tov ve
Litraot chaver(a)

This is dreadful. What can the Greeks be thinking of? What would Aristotle say?

From athena:

"..illegal immigrants coming with boats from Turkey -mainly Afghans,Iraqis and others.There is no solution to this except of the sinking of the boats which is inhuman and forbidden."

Invasion with the intend to destroy, to outbreed, to slaughter and to subjugate the original inhabitants of a country, is that not much worse than the sinking of boats to keep these invaders out?

As the title of this article says, there is no reciprocity. None.

eleytheria-h-thanatos, I did not mean to suggest that all Greeks are Judeophobes. But your country, like the UK, is notably anti-Israel at the UN and in the EU. To be honest with you, I do not know any native Greeks, but I know native Brits and the way that their Jews are treated is deplorable, but of course this does not mean that the entire population is like that. It only takes a few to make it seem like an overwhelming problem. I understand your being offended, as I too would be offended if the world equated me as an individual with Hussein Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, or just about any of our leaders with the exceptions of Bolton, Myrick, or Tancredo. Greece is not alone in needing to elect better leaders, believe me. Also, it is generally accepted that the Cold War was WWIII.

Also, in case it makes you feel any better, eleytheria-h-thanatos, the Bush Administration just told Israel to let Iran and Hamas finish Hitler's Final Solution, so we're quickly rocketing ourselves in that direction and it will only get worse under Hussein Obama. It's like the US wants Israel to develop its own weaponry, which they will no doubt do better than we ever did, thus killing our only backbone industry and rendering us no longer the best at anything in particular. I'm about equally disgusted with the whole world today.

The Cretans have a better understanding of the dreaded 'Turk' They razed every mosque once the last of the Muslims were kicked out -- although there's a nice one on the point at Xania, minus minarets, and used as an art gallery now. The mainlanders could learn something from the Irish of the Mediterranean.

Jdamn
I´m sorry you feel bad today.

My country is not judeophobic, already in 1917 it supported, through its foreign minister, the creation of Eretz in Palestine.

The fact of the matter is that Eretz has today in Greece like in many other countries around the globe lost the Propaganda-war, to the muhamedan arabs called pals due to the utter ignorance of the Greek people of concepts as islam, kitman, al taqqiya et al.. My compatriots who stigmatize Israel are, to my opinion, to be counted, helas, under the victims of that war.

The invading muhammedans have managed in Greece, without any major effort, and through their local quislings to disequate turk from muslim, thus most Greeks do not realize that we are once again under attack by the very same mob=islamic ummah, which kept subjugated most of the Greek Orthodox people and the Greek Jews under the muhammedan yoke for almost a millenium.

A preponderous fascist-leftist mentality omnipresent in the country is dictating all utterances in every sphere of life in the modern Greek society and it deters any logically thinking GreekOrthodox or Greek Jew from expressing any kind of opinion not conforming with the anti-Israeli aka anti-zionist "truth" established by that mentality.

If it could be of any help: there are people-goyim in Greece who actually do care about Eretz.

Kol tov ve
Laila tov

P.S.
do you like Poliker?
and do you know that ,imo, the best, greek music radio in the world is israeli: radioyasoo

Long live Christian Greece and the bouzoukia!

This is one of the reasons why Islam must *not* be allowed to re-conquer Greece.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kouros

and this is another (the Charioteer of Delphi)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charioteer_of_Delphi

The building of one mosque is not an important thing. After all it will be only one,in an area which is now without residents (because if they tried to build it in normal neighbourhood as before they would have to face reactions).There is pressure from both EU and US.For reasons you know the fact that there is a European capital without a mosque is considered a scandal and the delay tactics of the government can not continue for ever.
Posted by: athenian at November 25, 2008 1:26 PM
In the bigger scheme of things - immigration of Mohammedans, et al, this may not seem like a big deal at first glance.

But athenian, have you ever lived in the vicinity of a mosque? For a few weeks, I stayed with at a relative at a place close enough to one, and there, one gets to hear the adhan at regular intervals, starting @ 5:00AM. What it does is create an impression that it's a Mohammedan neighborhood, even if it isn't.

If there are no Mohammedans in Athens, no need to build a mosque there. If one absolutely has to be built, then do it in an actual Mohammedan neighborhood, rather than convert any Infidel suburb of Athens into one.

eleytheria-h-thanatos, I agree that we are all losing the propaganda war. It also seems that once a nation or even an individual accepts Islam that not only have they surrendered and lost all pride in themselves, but that they also embrace Judeophobia. One really does have to choose one or the other. I doubt that Greece has taken it as far as most of the EU nations, which don' teven teach about the Holocaust so as to not offend Muslims; screw the Germans who are deeply ashamed of their forefathers, but let the Muslims continue their denial, cause there are no lessons to be learned from WWII that are relevant to what's happening today (/sarc). I'm not very familiar with Poliker's music, but many Greek ex-pats have made many fantastic contributions to this world, Robert Spencer and John Cassevetes being among my favorites.







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