Tiny Minority of Extremists™ Update: where are all these thousands of jihadists? In what circles do they move? How many of their fellow Muslims among the Vast Majority of Peaceful Moderates™ know about their activities and have reported them to British police? If they haven't, why not?
Is anyone in the British government even asking these questions?
"UK militants back Jihad according to leaked report," from ITN, November 8:
Thousands of Islamist militants in the UK are actively supporting jihadist activities at home and abroad, according to a leaked Government document.The secret report states that Britain will remain "a high-priority target" for international terrorists aligned with al Qaida for the foreseeable future.
And it warns that a network of extremist cells exists in the UK, with the main concentrations in London, Birmingham and Luton.
The document - marked "restricted" - was reportedly drawn up by the intelligence branch of the Ministry of Defence, MI5 and Special Branch.
The threat from Islamist extremists is "diverse and widely distributed" and the number of terrorists in Britain is "difficult to judge", states the report.
But it cites estimates from the Joint Terrorism Analysis Centre that there are "some thousands of extremists in the UK committed to supporting jihadi activities, either in the UK or abroad".
And it states: "For the foreseeable future the UK will continue to be a high-priority target for international terrorists aligned with al Qaida.
"It will face a threat from British nationals, including Muslim converts, and UK-based foreign terrorists, as well as terrorists planning attacks from abroad."...
"Thousands"? Rather vague...
Is it 5 thousand?....ten?....twenty?....a hundred?
They don't have a clue...but they're on top of things!
To be a Muslim is to support the Jihad, it is mandated weather you support by being silent about it and giving money to that cause and not actually carrying out violent Jihad, but supporting those who will. That is the duty of Mohammedans and deception is the key. To not support Jihad means you have to be an apostate. When Mohammedans refer to innocent lives it means do not kill Muslims while you are killing non Muslims.
Oh don't worry old chaps the British constabulary have things well in hand. Why just look at the leadership – still capable of kissing the biggest of Islamic arse’s. I can see it now ay what, introduce Sharia that’ll f@#k em!
Old news, tell us something new, not directed at Robert of course but the twits in MI5, the MoD and Special Branch.
Are they really to believe that the UK public thinks that Islam is NOT a threat?
Melanie Phillips has written books and newspaper article warning the UK of Islamisation and the growing Radicalism(going back to Islam's true roots) for a while now. Bishop Nazir Ali warned that parts of the UK were turning into "No go Areas" for non Muslims.
They say thousands and as Cornelius says, "Thousands"? Rather vague...".
My current predicament is this, when are the Security Services and the Government, not forgetting the Media going to publicly state that Islam is the problem once and for all? When are they going to stop dressing this debacle up and start to tell people the truth?
It's nothing short of craziness as there are nearly 4-5 million Muslims in the UK and even if we took 20% of that population to be radicalised that's still 1 million or round about? We all know that moderate Islam and radical Islam are one and the same, that is, all travelling to the same destination, albeit a different route.
They say that they face the threat of radical Islam from within with born Nationals(although most definitely British), immigrants and Al Qaeda, yet what do they foretell when the 50 million British Nationals decide enough is enough and what happened in Yugoslavia with Muslims happens here?
Crazy.
Reports like these show that Islamists are a symptom of a larger problem. Jihadists have been with us since Islam was founded, but the west has lost it's ability to fight against Jihadism due to be emasculated and hamstrung by neo-marxism.
I sometime think it'll be better for everyone if the English government was toppled by Militant Islam. The the west would be forced to confront our weakness in the face of this threat, and in the chaos of a lawless Islamist society the average "liberal" would never be able to survive without dropping the pretense of multicultruaism and actually fighting to protect their ghettoes.
Reports like these show that Islamists are a symptom of a larger problem. Jihadists have been with us since Islam was founded, but the west has lost it's ability to fight against Jihadism due to be emasculated and hamstrung by neo-marxism.
I sometime think it'll be better for everyone if the English government was toppled by Militant Islam. The the west would be forced to confront our weakness in the face of this threat, and in the chaos of a lawless Islamist society the average "liberal" would never be able to survive without dropping the pretense of multicultruaism and actually fighting to protect their ghettoes.
Reports like these show that Islamists are a symptom of a larger problem. Jihadists have been with us since Islam was founded, but the west has lost it's ability to fight against Jihadism due to be emasculated and hamstrung by neo-marxism.
I sometime think it'll be better for everyone if the English government was toppled by Militant Islam. The the west would be forced to confront our weakness in the face of this threat, and in the chaos of a lawless Islamist society the average "liberal" would never be able to survive without dropping the pretense of multicultruaism and actually fighting to protect their ghettoes.
Mr. Spencer,
Have you heard of the nonprofit D.C. headquartered American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ)? I thought of the ACLJ when LGF began defaming your character. Their Chief Counsel Jay Sekulow is one of my heroes. If not familiar with his work you and readers here can check him out a@ aclj.org. Below is an example of what he has undertaken recently.
Jay Sekulow's Trial Notebook
Notebook Entry
A Life or Death Fight at the United Nations
As you know, the European Center for Law and Justice has been at the forefront of the fight to protect religious freedom around the world. This week, the fight moved to the United Nations headquarters in New York City as Egypt tabled the Defamation of Religions resolution in the Third Committee, guaranteeing a fight over the most basic of human rights-that of an individual to believe as he or she sees fit. All this week our ECLJ team was on the ground in New York City to contest this dangerous resolution backed by the 57 nations of the Organization of the Islamic Conference.
Over the course of three days, our team made the case for religious liberty around the world, meeting with various member nations who have been voting for this resolution the last few years. At the center of our argument was the fact that this proposed resolution would undermine the very reason the United Nations was formed-to defend human rights.
We argued that the goal of the Defamation of Religions resolution – which is to protect Islam from any form of criticism – is in direct violation of the most fundamental principles laid out in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. We also provided evidence from the cases we’ve litigated around the world, which illustrated the dangerous ramifications of allowing a state-sponsored religion to persecute those who choose to believe differently.
With Egypt's tabling of this resolution this week, we know it will be voted on in the coming weeks. We will continue to work against its approval, and towards ensuring that minority religions - such as Christianity in many of the Islamic nations – are free from discrimination or persecution. If policies like this resolution are allowed to be enshrined in international law, it will literally come at the price of countless Christian lives around the world.
We will continue to engage on this critical issue, and will keep you apprised of our progress.
Posted: 10/24/2008 12:00:00 AM"
If anyone wants to know about the situation in Luton, read Lionheart's blog (I don't think it's the same person as posts here, but correct me if I'm wrong).
He's had assorted threats, made complaints to the police on various matters so naturally .....he himself is now under threat of prosecution.
http://www.lionheartuk.blogspot.com/
"I sometime think it'll be better for everyone if the English government was toppled by Militant Islam. The the west would be forced to confront our weakness in the face of this threat"
It will probably have to come to that. I don't see much signs of hope that any other way will wake up the West to the threat of Islam. It's like this analogy, if you keep putting off an underlying dental problem for years, then it will be horribly expensive and painful to take care of the problem when the time comes that you can't ignore it any more.
This also means that the dreaded G word (genocide, whether actual genocide or just lots of killing of innocents like we had to do in WW2) will be MORE likely to happen if we keep putting off this problem. If we woke up today, we could probably take care of the problem with measures short of that. But we won't, so that brings us back to the quote I quoted up above.
Thousands of Islamist militants in the UK
-from the article
there are nearly 4-5 million Muslims in the UK
-Richard the Lionheart
If we estimate on the high side and say that "thousands" means one hundred thousand then that is just two percent to two and one half percent of Muslims in the UK.
That means at least ninety-seven percent of Muslims in the UK will be able to look you in the eye and say: "Oh, NO! I don't support jihad. Never have, never will."
Never mind that even one thousand people determined to wreak havoc on a society can do enormous damage. You could have one hundred times that many in the country and the PC crowd will say: how dare you demonize ninety-eight percent of law-abiding Muslims!
Each and every terrorist has a support network among the ninety-eight percent. He has people who, even if they don't know the particulars, still know who he is and what he wants to do but they are keeping quiet about it. After the act is done, they'll protest: but I thought he was just kidding!
This war is BIG. We have to hope to hell it doesn't blow up in our faces. Taking a stragetic defensive posture could be setting us up for a 'Sunday' punch.
I have been wrong about many things in the past.
President-elect Obama will (If he follows his word) be betting against it.
Errata Sheet:
For "For the foreseeable future the UK will continue to be a high-priority target for international terrorists aligned with al Qaida."
Read "From now on the UK, like the other states of Western Europe and North America, will not only remain a high-priority target for international Muslim terrorists, whether of Al-Qaida or a hundred other groups, or no group at all, but will also be a high-priority target for more insidious, possibly even more effective, attempts to burrow from within, in order to remove all obstacles to the spread, and dominance, of Islam. For the goal of Jihad, which can be pursued through combat (qitaal) or terrorism, or through deployment of the Money Weapon, campaigns of Da'wa, and inexorable demographic conquet, is the same, whatever the instruments chosen."
PMK,
Not to be contentious, but from what I've read, the Muslim population in Britain is 1.5 to 2 million. Where did you get your figures?
Cornelius,
From Richard the Lionheart, as I indicated.
From his comment posted above:
It's nothing short of craziness as there are nearly 4-5 million Muslims in the UK and even if we took 20% of that population to be radicalised that's still 1 million or round about? We all know that moderate Islam and radical Islam are one and the same, that is, all travelling to the same destination, albeit a different route.
Cornelius,
4-5 million came from Richard the Lionheart, posted above.
But let's take 1.5 to 2 million.
100,000 (a really high number) terrorists in waiting amounts to somewhere between five and seven percent of all UK Muslims. Even if it's THAT high, you will still get the same answer from the PC communities, both Muslim and non-Muslim: how dare you demonize the ninety-three percent of peaceful Muslims!
Take the Muslim population down to just one million and you still get ninety-percent who are "law-abiding" Muslims who aren't interested in terrorism. How do you combat that?
"Is anyone in the British government even asking these questions?"
"UK militants back Jihad according to leaked report," from ITN, November 8:
"
Thousands of Islamist militants in the UK are actively supporting jihadist activities at home and abroad, according to a leaked Government document."
Obviously the British Government has taken notice as they are the ones who have written the report!
Seriously, you really think that the British people will sit back and be taken over or subjected to a lengthy terror campaign.
The Muslim population of GB should thank their lucky stars that the last dozen terror attacks were either foiled or botched otherwise the British would, and I repeat, the British people would be marching on every mosque in the country.
You people easily forget that the UK just ended a civil war in Northern Ireland.
I wonder if Islam in the modern age is actually more dangerous than centuries ago. Back then, at least there were more earthly rewards in being a Msulim, such as jizya and plunder. If one leaves out the petro-wealth, which stems from geology, not religion, the main reward in being Muslim nowadays is the afterlife. I think that explains the rise of suicide bombing. The aggression is there, now combine that with a "reward in heaven" mentality, and Islam goes from being a religious mafia to a death cult.
The figure ordinarily given is well under two million. And that may include those, admittedly not a large group, who may have become "cultural Muslims" (i.e., Muslim-for-identification-purposes-only Muslims), or who have abandoned it altogether but kept that decision to themselves for obvious reasons.
jewdog,
Islam has become more dangerous because of the ease of world travel. At least it USED to be easy.
Look at how much Muslims have gummed up the works with one or two hijackings and a failed plan to blow up planes over the Atlantic. Legend has it that at the start of the 20th century most people rarely traveled more than fifty miles from their place of birth.
Europe didn't have much of a "Muslim problem" since it beat back the Ottomans at Vienna. The US must have had a minuscule Muslim population before 1945.
Today Muslims have access to almost every corner of the world. With oil, they have the means to travel. Mix petrodollars, jihad and globalization and you have a lethal combination.
To leon:
"Obviously the British Government has taken notice as they are the ones who have written the report!
Seriously, you really think that the British people will sit back and be taken over or subjected to a lengthy terror campaign."
The 'British people', in common with the poor, powerless people in every other European elective junta, have only two options:
1. Sit back;
2. Break the law.
The organised power seekers who thrive and prosper within an elective junta type of government and 'white ant' themselves into every available position of power and influence have only one sensible option from a personal point of view once they all manage to achieve suitable positions within the system.
To sit back and wait it out.
It's sensible and rational because the vast majority of the 'movers and shakers', whether in government or the media, are rarely, if ever, held accountable for their actions or, equally as importantly, their failures to act.
And, incidentally, the 'people' have zero power over this part of the process.
If nothing happens before they retire, then they will have successfully completed their life's work and maybe get a service medal as a sweetener. To do otherwise and rock the boat might unsettle things too much and endanger their careers.
So what if a one million, three million, or six million more illegal immigrants arrive before they retire. As long as things don't suddenly go completely pear shaped before they retire they're sitting pretty.
And, from a strictly personal, short term view, they're right.
How bitter and tragic it is that Britain no sooner fought valiantly and successfully to rid itself of one totalitarian menace, Nazism, than it allowed another totalitarian menace, Islam, into its country openly and willingly. It is now paying the price for such a monumental folly. So are other Western nations.
All totalitarian systems should be seen for what they are------a potentially mortal threat to any democracy, whether existing without or, what's even worse, entrenched within. And to actually allow such a threat into one's nation for reasons of tolerance, compassion or economics, all the while remaining ignorant of the danger in doing so, is the height of foolhardiness. Democracies must be ever vigilant against those systems which seek to terminate democracies. Too many people who live in democracies don't realize this and thus we have the mess now in Britain and other Western nations because of this stunning blindness.
A Britain without any Islam in it would be a far better Britian in every important respect. It strikes this observer from across the pond that the only recourse that Brits may have to save their way of life is to banish Islam from the Sceptered Isle. A drastic step to be sure but, considering the alternatives, perhaps the only one left to keep Britain Britain and not just another part of the dar-al-Islam. I would fully understand if Britian or any other Western country took this course of action. As Barry Goldwater observed, extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice and moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.
Ahem
I've never figured out who really controls the UK, the people or the Government or others? The Queen even remarked about "dark shadows". call me paranoid, but when the time comes I doubt the sovereignty of the UK will be handed over on a silver plate to Islam.
If the "good" Muslims residing in the UK and western Europe and, indeed, in all those nations presently being slowly and not so slowly inundated by the followers of Islam do not very quickly, on their own initiative clean out their houses they must, all of them, be expelled to their countries of origin.
We all know that they wont do it. Whether through fear or religious conviction they will continue to sit back quietly, use our welfare systems, tie up our courts, try to change our laws and multiply like locusts. Their silence to the egregious, inhumane acts of their co-religionists is their acquiescence to and approval of that savagery.
To sit and wait for the westernization of the followers of Mohammed is suicidal. The sooner the non Muslim nations wake up to this fact and act the better their chances of survival.
I would not like to guess at the number of muslims in Britain but as the official figure is 1.5 – 2 million we can take it that it is a lot more than this. The official figure for the entire British population is “60 million” however public concern about continuing mass immigration by “asylum seekers” suggest this is a vast underestimate to keep people quiet. It is based on juggling old census figures but other measures such as amount of food purchased, numbers in schools, usage of public services and believe it or not the amount of sewage processed, suggest a figure of 80 million. This is naturally not discussed because the British version of free speech allows you to say something once and quietly. Any more than this and there are 1001 ways to take you out as a troublemaker so Lionhearts figure of 4 – 5 million may not be that far out.
That being said "leaked" government reports are the usual method of inoculating the public against bad news by giving it a little at a time. I think that is the case here. Alternatively they are the standard method of testing public opinion ahead of a policy change. That way if there is a public outcry the government can back off and think again.
This report is not that secret anyway as "restricted" is the lowest security category. The detailed Ordnance Survey maps with can be bought anywhere are classed as "Restricted" when government property.
If the "good" Muslims residing in the UK and western Europe and, indeed, in all those nations presently being slowly and not so slowly inundated by the followers of Islam do not very quickly, on their own initiative clean out their houses they must, all of them, be expelled to their countries of origin.
We all know that they wont do it. Whether through fear or religious conviction they will continue to sit back quietly, use our welfare systems, tie up our courts, try to change our laws and multiply like locusts. Their silence to the egregious, inhumane acts of their co-religionists is their acquiescence to and approval of that savagery.
To sit and wait for the westernization of the followers of Mohammed is suicidal. The sooner the non Muslim nations wake up to this fact and act the better their chances of survival.
I totally agree, PMK. I'm just looking at things from a motivational viewpoint. The old plunder incentive, outside of the occasional Somali pirate, just isn't there anymore, so martyrdom predominates.
Leon
I've never figured out who really controls the UK, the people or the Government or others? The Queen even remarked about "dark shadows". call me paranoid, but when the time comes I doubt the sovereignty of the UK will be handed over on a silver plate to Islam.
As far as I can tell, the rulers are comprised of an informal and ongoing alliance between the majority party in any parliament, i.e. the elected junta, leftist most of the time, plus the media, majority leftist again, plus appointees to all positions of influence, mostly leftist, within the system, teachers, judges, government departments plus government authorities.
Collectively, they have near absolute power.
It’s not just passive, inactive bureaucrats who suffer no consequences when they don’t do what they’re supposed to do. Even if they do try to make an effort they’re as likely as not to encounter a judge who’ll grant repeated six month or twelve month adjournments in terrorist, immigration or criminal cases and cost the nation's Treasury hundreds of millions, yet, despite a few squawks from some of the media, plus people in real life who hear about it, nothing is ever done because the elected junta need not worry too much about 'the people' who are, in reality, quite powerless.
My dream government would have at the top of the power hierarchy (with control over the armed forces) a jury of five men and five women chosen at random from all the electoral rolls (I would impose a maximum age limit of 75 - this limit to apply to politicians also).
These ten men and women to serve for one month only, with a tyrant’s absolute power to dismiss anyone on the government payroll who failed to carry out his or her duties, who gummed up the government or judicial system with costly and unnecessary delays, or who abused their power as government employees.
I’d rather have that than the system we have now (see my second paragraph).
If we must have someone to exercise absolute power – and make no mistake, our rulers are, for the most part above the law – I would rather have it exercised by a randomly selected group of my fellow citizens for a short interval than have it exercised over me by a elective junta that pretends that it has a 'mandate' and 'represents' the people.
"Thousands of Islamist militants in the UK are actively supporting jihadist activities at home and abroad, according to a leaked Government document."
Our good friend and ally, England, has gone from a mulculturist's dream to a civil nightmare due entirely to the multiculti's. If our multiculti's here at home continue to prevail, as they have in England, this is what we will have in just few years.
Leon
I've never figured out who really controls the UK, the people or the Government or others? The Queen even remarked about "dark shadows". call me paranoid, but when the time comes I doubt the sovereignty of the UK will be handed over on a silver plate to Islam.
As far as I can tell, the rulers are comprised of an informal and ongoing alliance between the majority party in any parliament, i.e. the elected junta, leftist most of the time, plus the media, majority leftist again, plus appointees to all positions of influence, mostly leftist, within the system, teachers, judges, government departments plus government authorities.
Collectively, they have near absolute power.
It’s not just passive, inactive bureaucrats who suffer no consequences when they don’t do what they’re supposed to do. Even if they do try to make an effort they’re as likely as not to encounter a judge who’ll grant repeated six month or twelve month adjournments in terrorist, immigration or criminal cases and cost the nation's Treasury hundreds of millions, yet, despite a few squawks from some of the media, plus people in real life who hear about it, nothing is ever done because the elected junta need not worry too much about 'the people' who are, in reality, quite powerless.
My dream government would have at the top of the power hierarchy (with control over the armed forces) a jury of five men and five women chosen at random from all the electoral rolls (I would impose a maximum age limit of 75 - this limit to apply to politicians also).
These ten men and women to serve for one month only, with a tyrant’s absolute power to dismiss anyone on the government payroll who failed to carry out his or her duties, who gummed up the government or judicial system with costly and unnecessary delays, or who abused their power as government employees.
I’d rather have that than the system we have now (see my second paragraph).
If we must have someone to exercise absolute power – and make no mistake, our rulers are, for the most part above the law – I would rather have it exercised by a randomly selected group of my fellow citizens for a short interval than have it exercised over me by a elective junta that pretends that it has a 'mandate' and 'represents' the people.
I get the feeling some people on this board really enjoy scaring themselves to death...thounsands of jihadists...millions of jihadists woooaah..they're taking over Britain! ooh the are taking over the world!
Calm down people its a commer..well nver mind.
"Thousands of Islamist militants in the UK are actively supporting jihadist activities at home and abroad, according to a leaked Government document."
Our good friend and ally, England, now engulfed in Terrorism and Juhadists, is at the point of no return in the transition from a civil Judeo-Christian society to an uncivil Islamic society. Nowhere in the Islamic world do we find civility. So why should anyone be at all suprised when Islamic people who migrated to England, act like the Islamic people from whence they came?
Sorry for the double post. It appears to take nearly five minutes for a post to be accepted on JW, and my connection is, supposedly, broadband!
Australian Telstra, for your information. Go for Optus.
Ahem,
Same 5 minute problem for post to go through here. Broadband here also.
Rob taylor:
I agree with this totally. I think one of the best things that could happen is for the Islamisation of the UK, for the simple reason that people just really don't know what it's like. They are completely oblivious to it. They are also completely oblivious to the sacrifices made by their ancestors to keep the West free. All one has to do is look at Africa and the many Nations that continually erupt into violence and bloodshed. It would immediately end this 'empathy' ruining society. It would also destroy the madness of political correctness, equality(no one is equal, regardless. A disabled person is not able bodied or mentally capable and last but not least mentally challenged either) and multiculturalism, as once Islam has control there would be no other cultures allowed in.
The only drawback is that the young would then be indoctrinated into how Muslims are all over the world and know no better.
There is the saying that a Conservative is a Liberal who hasn't been mugged and how true is that saying.
The problem with Western society is that unfortunately the 'nerds' have taken control. The saps are in charge. The effeminate men are ruling with the masculine women and both want to ban everything apart from breathing. I have nothing wrong with how others want to live their lives but when it affects mine I do become involved.
All I can say is that if nothing is done about it, then Islamisation will get far worse than it is, because we ARE being Islamised. It's happening as we speak.
jewdog,
The plunder of today has taken a different form. There are no caravans to raid but there are public treasuries. We are paying through welfare. Jizya comes in many forms. Dearborn and a few other cities in the US have become fortresses of Islam.
Shariah law is becoming recognized. Our own systems are being junked. We have leaders who think shariah law is something we can't avoid. Good heavens, RELIGIOUS leaders are saying shariah isn't all that bad.
What happened in Minneapolis? Those who didn't want to pick up travelers with unopened bottles of alcohol or with seeing-eye dogs weren't fired. They were accommodated. Imagine if anyone else had tried that. What if you or I were in that line and decided that we wouldn't pick up anyone wearing a hijab? How long would we keep our jobs?
Cornelius,
The figure of Muslims in the UK in 2001 was 1.6 to 1.8 million. Now considering that the Labour Government since '97 has been letting in on average around 300k a year as well as not actually having exact figures because there's no immigration control system in place, then we see that that figure in 2001 was very wrong.
Now also take into consideration as well that there are 19million tourists who come to the UK every year. Within that there are of course people on student visas as well. Many of those on visas simply don't bother leaving when their visa runs out. Here in the UK there is no removal policy either for illegals and you will not believe this but, illegal immigrants are handed a ticket and taken to the airport to catch the plane but they are not allowed to be forced onto the plane. What happens is they just wait in the airport for the immigration officials to go and then leave the airport to wherever they want to go in the UK.
Look also at the situation that we are in the EU and have open borders, so Muslims from all over Europe will be coming to the UK. Then also look at the recent law of polygamy being legalised for Muslims only in the UK.
When I moved to London in '94, the population of London then was around 6 million although many said it was well over that and between 9-11 million THEN.
The bottom line is this. The government hasn't a clue to how many people are in the UK and that's really about it, so estimates, for example regarding minorities can be doubled, if not more than that.
Moving on from this, the IRA was a fraction of the size of Islam when it came to sleepers on the British Mainland. They wreaked havoc. Ten suicide bombers(less even) could close London down. There are though thousands more than that here in the UK, ready to die for Allah, Islamisation and Jihad.
The future does not look good at all.
If our multiculti's here at home continue to prevail, as they have in England, this is what we will have in just few years.
Posted by: Spot on
Spot on,
I'm afraid we're already near the point of no return. Bush was (and is) the ultimate multiculti. It's about more than Islam. A lot of America's heritage is being destroyed in the name of multiculturalism. Then you have globalization, which adds a whole new dimension. The world has become too small for the USA to exist anymore.
Our epitaph: nothing good lasts forever.
All of the main political parties now bow and scrape before islam.
The fact is there are so many moslems in the UK and they are concentrated in certain areas, their votes are vital.
The BNP will never gain power, but they will make the other parties sit up and take notice.
Sooner or later another attack or series of attacks will unfortunatly occur. It could lead to civil unrest.
The Sikhs/Hindus will be caught up in it.
When people have no faith or trust in the law/state they will turn to other means.
The BNP can serve a useful purpose if they wish.
THey can start to target known extremists in the UK and their families, basically ask them politly to leave, if they don't then more extreme measures could be used (I am not condoning violence)
However the BNP although very vocal and making claims of members in the Police and armed forces have done nothing.
Who is going to hunt these islamists down and deal with them ?
The state has its hands tied by the Human Rights act.
If a few prominent ones were eliminated then the others would get the message.
I think the time will come when the "beleivers will have terror stuck in their hearts"
Either way the situation is going to get ugly.
gorgi
It's not fear but dismay, sadness and deep anger.
I really couldn't give a rats ass about people like you, Schwartzanegger summed up your kind, "girly men".
ROB TAYLOR: "I sometime think it'll be better for everyone if the English government was toppled by Militant Islam."
When Hitler came to power in Germany, Stalin's lieutenants were abuzz with recriminations and fear.
Stalin reproached them, insisting this was a "good thing" for communism, that Hitler would act as the "icebreaker" for the revolution.
Instead, the Nazis consolidated their power, persecuted the communists (along with everyone else), and eventually invaded the Soviet Union, coming within a hair's breath of toppling Stalin and reducing a third of the country to ruins.
If Britain went Islamist, yes, the liberals would be shocked by the new realities, but they would be voiceless and resigned to their fate...and everyone on the isles, liberal and conservative, would be trapped in an Orwellian nightmare.
Be careful what you wish for.
Richard,
I hear you loud and clear about the illegal immigrants. The estimate in the States often cited by officials and media is 12 million.
God knows it could be double that. The powers that be don't have a clue.
apostate_islam
"All of the main political parties now bow and scrape before islam.
The fact is there are so many moslems in the UK and they are concentrated in certain areas, their votes are vital"
Agreed - This summer an INDIAN who has been a life time Conservative said of Labour, "No party can afford to upset the immigrant vote - we control 50 key seats in the major cities". I do not think this was reported in the British MSM if it was reported at all.
"However the BNP although very vocal and making claims of members in the Police and armed forces have done nothing"
I doubt it, a police constable with 14 years meritorious service was fired this year for being seen wearing a BNP badge at a football match. He was not and never had been a member of the BNP.
Richard the Lionheart
Agreed - You could mention again that in the first week of taking power in 1997 the Labour Party paid off the muslim vote by scrapping the last control on marriage partners from overseas. This primarily benefited muslims to the extent that 60% of all muslim marriage partners are brought in. Add to this that pologamy has been a fact for 20+ years who knows what the figures are.
Apart from anything else a British passport is all the dowry a family needs to provide. Girls are traded to pay off family and clan debts in Pakistan and Bangladesh. Ref "Belonging" by Sameem Ali who was sold in this way and deliberately got pregnant at 14 because she knew it was the only way they would send her back to the UK.
apostate_Islam,
The BNP will not get into power in the foreseeable future but then, depending on the situation regarding Islamisation, Immigration and crime perpetrated by foreigners, they may in the future.
You are very correct that in the future, the people will take to their own punishing criminals having given up on the Police and the Judicial System. We may very well see the creation of Gangland Bosses again as there used to be in the past, who will protect neighbourhoods. The police will of course completely end in being a public service but instead a (mercenary)bodyguard unit for politicians and the rich.
Hindus and Sikhs will get caught up in the violence as Islam grows and attacks them too. Then of course the extreme right wing groups will get more numerous and attack everyone not white.
The government isn't touching the Islamic Hate preachers because they know that it could kick off in the UK. In a nutshell, the MCB and the MB have told the government to not do this or that as it could cause problems in the Muslim community and so of course they stay away. Islam has the UK police under their thumb by their own tolerance and Human rights Laws.
The situation will get ugly when law and order completely breaks down and then the government will impose martial law. Then again, the army may get in on the situation and start attacking the police and the government, as they are more close to the public than the government.
Yes, in fact we're looking at civil war, or should I say, attacks against Islam, the Government and the Police by everyone in the UK not Muslim. So, unless the government starts listening to the people, their future could be a very grisly one as they are caught by the people, tried for their crimes against Britain and Hanged, Drawn and Quartered.
Yes Fred,
NuLabour's deliberately pandered to Islam because it went straight for their vote. The amount of Muslims in the UK may even be far larger than what I projected due to eleven years of zero immigration control by NuLabour.
Friends of mine went abroad to Europe for a couple of days. They came back through immigration, there was no one there to stop them and they didn't even have to bother showing their passport. If they can do that in a British Port, how many others have? They were amazed and in fact complained. It was of course swept under the carpet.
Richard the Lionhear
"Yes, in fact we're looking at civil war, or should I say, attacks against Islam, "
You mean actions such as this?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/7714563.stm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1084070/My-dads-monster-Im-pole-dancer-says-firebrand-preacher-Omar-Bakris-daughter.html
Meanwhile, Bakri's pole dancing daughter claims she is a good Muslim.
The poor girl has been getting extremist threats, but why hasn't the MSM published those emails and tried to find out who is sending them?
'He said the papers had run the story to get back at him and to attack our religion. Part of me feels angry with him for bringing this on me, but part of me agrees with him that he's been attacked unfairly."
Bear (no pun intended) that Bakri paid for his daughter's breast implants and she posed nude for the newspapers. But, at the end of the day, 5pm? It's all our fault, never the muslims fault but the Kafir.
Here's Jasmin Fostok, Bakri's daughter, I'm pasting you the link, for erm, research only...
http://buzzfeed.com/rchemel/meet-yasmin-fostok-pole-dancer-and-the-daughter-o-4c
Yes Leon,
I suppose that's going to happen and become more widespread with the 'extreme' right leading the way as usual in the defences of their countries.
However, you will see more and more groups and even small armies being formed. We may also see the complete breakup of the UK and then England into their collective counties.
This is the plan of Socialism, to completely and utterly obliterate the Nation State and they are well on their way to total success.
Richard
there are at least two politicians in the UK who look...interesting.
Both belong to 'European Friends of Israel'.
Andrew Gwynn, Labor, of 'Labor Friends of Israel'.
Alistair Burt, Vice Chairman of 'Conservative Friends of Israel'.
By their decision to support Israel they are choosing to go against the tide in a big way.
Perhaps you need to research their backgrounds and voting records, etc, and find out what else they are doing.
Since they've already stuck their necks out as supporters of Israel, send them copies of Andrew Bostom's "The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism" and of Bat Yeor's "The Dhimmi", and tell them that these two books are the 'rosetta stone' which will enable them to understand and predict every word and deed of the jihadists vis a vis Israel and the Jews.
If what you fear transpires, then it would help to have a list of even a few people in public life to whom you would be willing to swear yourself, and for whose safety you would be willing to personally fight. For all I know, such people might be a local councillor or mayor or school principal or bobbie with backbone, or the vicar of the church down the road, or the Tower Captain of the nearest group of change ringers who has defied orders to silence the bells.
(Just as, within the Church, there is Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali and Canon Patrick Sookhdeo; would you be prepared to fight for these men; to stand in between them and the jihadis so that they can go on doing their job?).
You may like to get in touch with a Jewish scholar, Dr Irene Lancaster, and ask her who she knows, in Britain, inside the Church of England and outside it, who is genuinely philojudaic. It's probably the simplest and clearest litmus test to begin with, in your search for people of integrity; especially now when Europeans have been subjected to a continual barrage of pro-'Palestinian' and pro-Muslim and subtly or overtly antisemitic propaganda for at least fifty years. Anyone who has resisted that barrage, has shown evidence of possessing intellectual backbone.
Richard
do you know this poem?
'The Other Little Boats
'A pause came in the fighting and England held her breath
For the battle was not ended and the ending might be death.
'Then out they came, the little boats, from all the Channel shores
Free men were these who set the sails and laboured at the oars.
From Itchenor and Shoreham, from Deal and Winchelsea,
They put out into the Channel to keep their country free.
'Not of Dunkirk this story, but of boatmen long ago,
When our Queen was Gloriana and King Philip was our foe
And galleons rode the Narrow Sea, and Effingham and Drake
Were out of shot and powder, with all England still at stake.
'They got the shot and powder, they charged the guns again,
The guns that guarded England from the galleons of Spain,
And the men who helped them to do it, helped them still to hold the sea.
Men from Itchenor and Shoreham, men from Deal and Winchelsea,
Looked out happily from Heaven and cheered to see the work
Of their grandsons' grandsons' grandsons on the beaches of Dunkirk."
- Edward Shanks
This poem points to the fact that in ‘western’ civilization, the ‘universal civilization' as Naipaul calls it, it is the ‘ordinary’ people, the body of free citizens, like the ‘hobbits’ of Tolkien’s fictional Shire, who, in the end, acting by their own choice, freely, with knowledge and courage, may turn the tide of history.
Fred,
"Agreed - This summer an INDIAN who has been a life time Conservative said of Labour, "No party can afford to upset the immigrant vote - we control 50 key seats in the major cities". I do not think this was reported in the British MSM if it was reported at all."
Who was this Indian chap ?
Was he Hindu/Sikh or moslem ?
I myself am of Indian origin.
One of my major concerns is how a civil disorder situation will effect non-moslem Indians.
I have just finished reading Londonistan, M Phillips mentions Jews, Sikhs & Hindus in her book.
Regards
AI
I was pleasantly surprised today (Remembrance Sunday) at the local cenotaph the Bishop mentioned ideologies which caused us to go to war and mentioned "......or acts of terror such as being blown up on a double decker bus". The general public was allowed in the cenotaph to peruse the wreaths and crosses with personal messages and those Brits who died for the country were represented from batallions which included Gerkhas and Jewish Brits. I did not spot a single Muslim in the crowd.
Also, the televised Remembrance Service which the Queen, Prime Minister and David Cameron attended was uniquely British - non of this multicultural stuff, which is a hopeful sign that the penny is dropping.
Here's a poem by an U.S.A army veteran, Charles M Province, an Officer writing about his soldiers, please read it to your children, dialogue is good, but when people won;t listen then defence is allowed.
The Soldier
It is the Soldier, not the minister
Who has given us freedom of religion.
It is the Soldier, not the reporter
Who has given us freedom of the press.
It is the Soldier, not the poet
Who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the Soldier, not the campus organizer
Who has given us freedom to protest.
It is the Soldier, not the lawyer
Who has given us the right to a fair trial.
It is the Soldier, not the politician
Who has given us the right to vote.
It is the Soldier who salutes the flag,
Who serves beneath the flag,
And whose coffin is draped by the flag,
Who allows the protester to burn the flag.
Hello dumbledoresarmy,
Thank you again for passing on some more names to me and I will definitely check them out. I will certainly follow up on "European Friends of Israel" although, from what I've come up with so far on the Labour and Conservative parties, I don't know if I really want to, although it would be in my best interests to write to both. I will certainly pass on the information to read these two books DA although they can buy them themselves, as I unforunately do not have the cash to fund Politicians with literature especially when politicians would be able to claim these back on expenses. I will also add even more books to the list of recommended reading.
There are lots of people that I would gladly defend DA, but I have just become a father and my safety of my family is first and foremost. London is becoming a real hotbed of Islamic terrorists and they have infiltrated the Police Forces here too. I am planning on leaving London as soon as I can anyway, but the thought of sending my partner and child to a safe haven abroad has crossed my mind many times. I am certainly not advocating violence, indeed not, but when I put my heart into something I put myself in 110%. Not only will I be battling Radical Islam and in fact Islam in the UK, but also the Establishment as well. You may recall of the blogger "Lionheart" (no relation) is in America and cannot return to the UK for he will be imprisoned for creating a blog with which to speak out against Islam in the UK. I believe that should I make the push to really do something about Islamisation in the UK and uniting people, the police will arrest me on inciting Religious and Racial Hatred as written in their Policy passed in 2005. I have many ideas with how to unite people and of course funding is the main key, so that literature can be created and posted to every house within the UK. There is much to do regarding this and I really would not be surprised if the Metropolitan Police or New Scotland Yard have been following my posts on here with which to build up a case to throw me into prison for speaking out against Islam and the Islamisation of the UK.
The two bishops you speak of are certainly on my list of people to write to and I would very much look for their support as well as them knowing that they also have mine. I have come across a few groups already who are trying to stop the Islamisation of the UK as well as reading up on Common Purpose, another exceptionally interesting "Charity" here in the UK intent on the promotion of multiculturalism and of course Islam in the UK.
There are many people that I am writing to DA. I have just finished replying to the Party Leader of Veritas about Islam. Their party leader sent me her thoughts on how they'd like to deal with Islamisation in the UK and they do look promising.
There is much to and as Sherlock Holmes used to say "the game is afoot my dear Watson".
Your poem you sent by Edward Shanks was inspiring, like the posts you write on here. Your comparison to Tolkien and the Hobbits of the Shire, no better epitomises the battle we are about to wage and I know much about Tolkien, his views, his Englishness and his life. In fact Lord of the Rings is possibly my favourite of all the books I've read. There is a wonderful part in the book when Gandalf and Frodo are talking
It is and always has been up to the men and women of England, to speak up and defend themselves from tyranny. It is every woman and man's duty to serve their country in time of need and there is no greater need than now against Islam and Islamisation. Everyone has to stand up and be counted as did their ancestors who died fighting to give them freedom.
It is odd that we post on this day - Remembrance Sunday. It seems fitting that we should have such a conversation as well about Tolkien and Dunkirk. It is also sad to say, easy to see how Left wing ideology is destroying our society. I am listening to the TV and a programme is going to come on soon about 'forgiving the conscientious objectors'. Now many people have different views and I will simply state that every man, who left the UK and his family to fight in foreign fields, was an objector at heart. They did not want to leave and go to certain death, but the thought of their country that they much loved and their families, being under control by the enemy was enough to tell them what they must do and teh sacrifice that had to be given. It saddens me to see these conscientious objectors, get pardons, when their fellow countrymen died in their hundreds of thousands, to save the land these men loved also.
There is much to do DA. I wish you well.
Dear Richard
it appears that congratulations are in order, for you and your wife. May your new little one be blessed and protected and grow up in a free and renewed Britain.
AI
You can find the full report in the Hindustan Times of February this year, the quote was,
"No political party can govern if they upset the Asian vote," India-born Rami Ranger, who also heads the Sun Group of Industries, told IANS
I would guess he was a Hindu and he was visiting India with/at the same time as Immigration Minister Liam Byrne. I am not sure the link will work but you could try it.
www.hindustantimes.com%2FStoryPage%2FStoryPage.aspx%3Fid%3De905f018-d9f6-4eec-bd07-
Interestingly, these are not the first names you'd think of in terms of Muslim population centres. There's no mention here, for example, of Leicester or Bradford, which most Brits would immediately think of as heavily Muslim cities.
(And ... Luton??? Are they becoming jihadis to stave off the boredom of living in Luton?)
That would be a rather special use of the word 'better'.
Anyway, there is no English government. The English whinge about this fact all the time.
WSW
Ahem and Spot on -
I've noticed the same delay as you have, which has led to my making a few 'ooops!' double postings as well.
I have not had a comparable problem previously.
Fred,
I will check out the info.
Have just looked at the LionHeart blog site.
THe first page shows a picture of a pak, drug dealer who turned up at a demo dressed as as suicide bomber.
Why has the BNP not "dealt" with him ??????
You know what I mean, no violence, just an "Intense, Robust" conversation and forthright "Exchange of views" hell they can even gove him tea and biscuits and cucumber sandwiches !
He can't be that hard to find, it would send a message out.
Also I think the statement by the Indian chap is actually quite positive. Britain and India are major trade partners, there is alot of military co operation and joint exercise stuff going on, the Indian population in the UK is not hostile, we have the money and the moslems have the numbers, the politicians can't rely on both.
Moslem activists want Britain to take a stand on "kashmir" ie support the moslems.
If they do that support from the Indians will disappear also trade could suffer.
Why support a bunch of ill educated losers who are inbred, non productive and have a size 12 chip on their shoulders ?
Regards
AI
MI5's Language Unit is currently recruiting agents who have in-depth knowledge and understanding of a variety of cultures and languages. People who can speak Somali, Pashto, Tamil, Arabic (north African dialects), Urdu Punjabi, Bengali, Farsi and Persian. What do all these languages have in common I wonder? Incidentally the strike threat in the UK is currently at 'severe'.
AI
I would agree that Indians are generally accepted as one man said to me “They keep themselves to themselves not like the muslims”. Meaning of course they do not bother anyone which is what the British expect of everyone including themselves.
As the Pak drug dealer I think he was on license from jail at the time and they took him back in. This shows both his stupidity and arrogance.
The BNP doing anything? If you look up “Libertarian Alliance” in the UK you will see the pressure they are under from the authorities. They have enough trouble staying out of jail and keeping their jobs and businesses and are regularly infiltrated by “investigative reporters”.
If they tried to engage with muslims I think the scenario would be,
Muslims beat BNP up.
Police stand back and let them.
At a suitable point the police wade in and arrest BNP.
MSM top story is “BNP’s racist violence”
The authorities take every opportunity to prosecute BNP members. Last month one who had a small mail order business was fined £150 and banned from using the mail for putting “No more mosques” stickers on packages. He was lucky to get away with that because although they were not illegal a muslim post worker saw them and complained they were “offensive". The judge said that his defense that he was a Methodist and would not be offended by "No more Methodist chapel" stickers was "Interesting".
Regards
I'm afraid we're already near the point of no return. Bush was (and is) the ultimate multiculti. It's about more than Islam. A lot of America's heritage is being destroyed in the name of multiculturalism. Then you have globalization, which adds a whole new dimension. The world has become too small for the USA to exist anymore.
Our epitaph: nothing good lasts forever.
PMK
I wish I could say that you are wrong about this, but I can’t. Bush is an arch multiculti and globalist. This is the reason his approval is so low. Most elites in Congress and big business are the same. If these elites continue to have their way, our days are numbered.
It is possible, I think, that if Europe falls to Islam, that 80% of our population who are not multiculti’s will demand that something be done. Hopefully then, they would demand that the focus be on Islam. This is the only hope that I see for us to go on as a democracy. And even if that all happens, we would most certainly be fighting serious all out war. With today’s technology, any serious all out war is full of peril for everyone. No one can say what the future holds.
Like it or not, we are going to get a chance to see what the Chicago political machine and the great one, BHO, can do to resolve these problems. Globalism and Islam is part of the core of our current economic crises.
PMK,
Let me also add that I wish the best for England in their period of strife. I would wish that we would help defend them in their time of need against the encroachment of Islam. But I fear that at the present time our elites will take a hard line against anything not multiculti or PC. I wish for God to forbid what is happening to England by Islam.
Spot On,
We can't keep blaming the elites. We just returned most of the House for another two years. John Murtha called his constituents names but they reelected him so I guess they didn't mind.
We nominated two sitting senators who are multicultural in the extreme. This wasn't just party bosses. It was people in primaries who gave them their vote.
Ours is a government of, by and for the people. We are the ones who have to shoulder a lot of the blame. No matter how much money a candidate has and how much money George Soros gives to people, George Soros still has just one vote. Over one hundred million people voted to continue on the multicultural path to destruction.
PMK,
The elites control 90% of the media and that gives them great advantage over the rest of us. At this specific time, a leader on our side would be chided and made fun of to the extreme by the elites. This is how they keep us in line or at least quiet.
I'm not sure what it will take to scare people into paying attention more. 9/11 didn't do it, and even if it had, the elites would have deflected the attention of everyone to something else. Most of the teachers in our multiculti society are multiculti's. Our kids are being brainwashed in their schools. It is not a pretty picture.
It will take a major event to create the proper arguments to overcome the elites. As you have said, we may be nearing the end of a good period in history for us all.
Since we are discussing statistics, I thought it might be useful to take a look at the facts rather than guessing. The well-regarded website of the UK Office of National Statistics puts the Muslim population at 1.591m (2.7%) in the 2001 National Census (these are held every 10 years). It would be fairly safe to speculate that this figure has grown considerably since then.
The website is well worth a look as it has a wealth of fascinating insights into British life and culture.
More chillingly, however is the validation of Hugh's assertion that British Muslims are most certainly employing demographics as one of a number of fronts in their war against us (and let us not mince words, for this is what it is):
British Muslim Famiies Most Likely To Have Children
Un:dhimmi
I have seen a report somewhere that they are not having a census in 2010. They said they are no longer necessary as the information can be found in the system.
In reality this means information will hidden from the public in a 1001 separate reports produced whenever the government thinks it prudent.
Fred
I'm afraid the 'report' you have seen is incorrect, or has been misinterpreted. The next UK Census will take place in 2011.
However, that doesn't mean that the Census as we know it won't change - see the quote from the ONS below, indicating possible changes to the way data may be gathered in subsequent Censuses:
"Research work within the project has re-examined the business need for information traditionally collected by a census and also assessed the options for meeting any confirmed needs. It was concluded that there is a unique value in, and a continuing need for, the sort of information that has traditionally been collected in the census, and a traditional census is the only viable option for collecting such data in 2011. Beyond 2011, it may be possible to replace the census with an Integrated Population Statistics System bringing together information from multiple sources."