Maybe he was on an undercover mission. Or maybe he holds to the same religious doctrine and political ideology as those of the jihadists. Did anyone try to find that out about him at any point? Or would that have been "Islamophobic"?
"Undercover officer among 2 men arrested for allegedly aiding Mumbai attackers," from AP, December 6 (thanks to Josephine):
SRINAGAR, India - Security officials say one of two Indians arrested for illegally buying mobile phone cards used by the gunmen in the Mumbai attacks is a counter-insurgency police officer.A senior police official in Indian Kashmir says the man is part of a semiofficial counter-insurgency network whose members are usually drawn from among former militants.
The official says the man - identified as Mukhtar Ahmed - may have been on an undercover mission.
The official says Ahmed is being held by Calcutta police....
They caught him through his SIM card. He wasn't even being careful.
"Counter-insurgency police officer" arrested for aiding Mumbai jihadists
...........
Oh, damn. Always a danger when possible fifth-columnists make up a large part of your security forces. And yet, here in the West, we are urged to hire more Muslims for the police and security forces.
I read an account by someone trapped at the Mumbai train station who says that police and security guards were hiding from the Jihad gunmen, just like the civilians. They did nothing, according to the eyewitness, even when they had a clear shot at the terrorists.
I couldn't help but wonder--were they genuinely outgunned? Poorly trained? Just scared? Or could it be something much more ominous--was there a possibility they some of the police were in sympathy with the Jihadists?
The first issues you can do something about--better training, better equipment. The last cannot be guarded against, while there is pressure to accept people who may wish our destruction.
Double agent in plain English
Thank you for the hat tip, Mr. Spencer!
Memo to governments and businesses of all non-Muslim lands.
Hiring Muslims - so long as they insist on publicly identifying as Muslims - into 1. police force 2. army 3. intelligence services 4. civil service generally 4. ANYWHERE in essential services - health, food industry, communications, transport, anywhere where that one Muslim fifth columnist bent on sabotage could destroy the lives of many non-Muslims
is looking more and more like a game of Russian roulette.
Some of those you hire will undoubtedly be moles/ fifth columnists/ saboteurs...ticking bombs.
Some may start out as slack, non-practising, MINOs (Muslim-for-ID-purposes-only), be perfectly safe for years; then, quite suddenly, they will morph into pious Muslims, decide to get right into the Imitatio Mohammedi...and there will be dead non-Muslims left right and centre.
There is no surefire way to determine which ones are dangerous and which ones are not; no way to predict who might - per miraculum - apostasise and become permanently 'safe' for non-Muslims to be around, and who - after years of being quite 'safe' - may suddenly become dangerous.
The Mohammedan population, everywhere, is the sea in which the jihadists swim, and from which new jihadists - prompted by the Quran and other Islamic texts - continually emerge.
Best not to hire Muslims.
Best not to admit any more Muslims across our borders.
Best to start thinking about how to remove the ones we've already got.
Let's stop playing Muslim Roulette.
"...usually drawn from among former militants."
From the article.
I hope note is taken of this by those who advocate releasing captured jihadists after "rehabilitation." I suppose it would be too much to expect the Saudis to consider this to be significant in their program to "re-educate" then release terrorists they have captured in KSA. Oh, I know. It's only a tiny minority of reverts among that more famous tiny minority of extremists who are giving Islam a bad name. Yea, that's it.
gravenimage- there was ONE police officer in the train station who fired back with a bolt-action rifle...they had ONE rifle to share amongst themselves, apparently. There is a security video which shows the terrorists firing at him and hitting the columns near him, as the other policeman ran for his life. They then sprayed the cafe on the second floor mezzanine level.
I do not know how he missed...they were pretty much stationary and firing from the hip. Where is a US Marine when you need him/her?
This enemy spy needs to be executed immediately, and all security and police forces re-polygraphed, grilled Israeli-style.
And the photographer who took those train-station pictures and claimed that he wished he had a gun...LIAR!
He knew of the islamic threat, probably for years, and chose NOT to become a cop or soldier. He probably couldn't kill a chicken if his life depended on it.
gravenimage
"was there a possibility they some of the police were in sympathy with the Jihadists?"
It is more likely that they were told to wait for the commando forces that were trained to handle that kind of situation. From what I've heard, it took that commando some nine or ten hours to get to Mumbai. Apparently, there is only one such anti-terrorist force in the whole of India and it is in Delhi. So they had to wake up, get organized, and fly for something like three hours to Mumbai. I would assume that the terrorists knew ahead of time that Mumbai wasn't that well protected.
In any case, the Indian government has also a lot to answer for.
Journalists travel to hometown of captured terrorist:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/57251.html
Waiting for SWAT might not be an option.
http://freemendo.typepad.com/undaunted/2008/12/mumbai-intel.html
So figure out what you're going to do...
http://freemendo.typepad.com/undaunted/2007/08/shooters.html
And then prepare and train for it:
http://freemendo.typepad.com/undaunted/2007/08/give-me-back-my.html
And be alert and courageous, whithersoever thou goest...
http://freemendo.typepad.com/undaunted/2007/11/oh-the-weather.html
No More Ham, Ed, Mohammedans can almost invariably trick a polygraph. This is precisely why I choose to identify taqiyya as such, rather than lumping it in with other forms of lying. They are so mentally ill and so indoctrinated with Islam's sicko version of morality that lying in order to advance Islam does not register the same physiological reaction that lying does in a human being who possesses a soul. And yes, I do believe that these people are soulless, and yes, the polygraph proves this to be the case. And it's not just lying to advance Islam with which they trick polygraphs. If you ask any pious Muslim hooked-up to a polygraph if, for instance, Islam promotes pedophilia or beating women, they will lie and pass, provided that the people carrying out the test are infidels, but among other sickos who believe that pedophilia and beating women is a good thing, they won't be able to pass.
No More Ham and swilliams, thanks for the updates.
No More Ham, Ed wrote:
And the photographer who took those train-station pictures and claimed that he wished he had a gun...LIAR!
He knew of the islamic threat, probably for years, and chose NOT to become a cop or soldier. He probably couldn't kill a chicken if his life depended on it.
..................
I'm not sure I'd make this assumption, Ed. I'm a much better photographer than I'd make a soldier, myself.
This photographer was in the thick of things, chronicling the horrors, rather than turning tail. And He wasn't--like so many in the media--making excuses for or glorifying the Jihadists. These news pictures and accounts are critical for understanding what we are up against, and are the bread and butter of sites such as JW.
Good point, Gravenimage. He at least had the courage to run toward gunfire...I suppose that is true journalism and courage. His post-attack bravado is what gets me.
I wonder if he has since armed himself, even with a knife.
Undaunted, great site. How do you avoid tunnel vision in a shooting situation? Thanks for protecting our troops.
95B, Anniston Alabama.
Are these "Indians" Muslim or Hindu?
The police constable arrested in Mumbai probe was government official overseeing the Daniel Pearl kidnapping investigation.
08 Feb 2002 Pakistani police have charged three people with kidnapping Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl. They've also named a fourth man, their prime suspect, in the kidnapping. They say Ahmad Omar Saeed Sheikh is still at large. Police raided the homes of his friends and relatives and detained his uncle who is believed to have e-mailed photos of Pearl in captivity. Police arrested Saeed's cousin Farhad Naseem and two other men... Government officials say they believe the reporter is still alive. "We are working on a variety of clues. We are hopeful the case will be solved very soon," said Mukhtar Ahmed Sheikh, the government official overseeing the investigation http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2002/02/08/Pearlsuspect_020208.html
06 Feb 2002 As Pakistani authorities closed in on his suspected kidnappers, the wife of reporter Daniel Pearl pleaded again Wednesday for his release... Authorities arrested three men suspected of sending e-mails that contained photographs of the Wall Street Journal reporter, who disappeared Jan. 23, and seized the computer they used, police officials said on condition of anonymity... Pearl, the Journal's South Asian correspondent, was last seen Jan. 23 on his way to meet a Muslim fundamentalist contact at a Karachi restaurant... "The fact is we know who has done it and we are very close to resolving the case," Mukhtar Ahmed Sheikh, in charge of police here in Sindh province, told The Associated Press. "We might conclude the whole thing very soon, sooner than you think." He said investigators, aided by the FBI, have been working around the clock. But he refused to say who was behind the kidnapping or reveal other details. "There are questions which, if I answer, could affect the case," he said in the interview Tuesday.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002/02/05/pearl-kidnapping.htm
the tree of militant Islam has deep roots...
Mukhtar Ahmed Is a name of a moslim, en not of a hindu.
The biggest riddle of the world.
Altough the moslims have subjugated , killed and massmurdered de Hindoe's in terrible ways, destroyed nearly all theyr culture and holysites,in Afghanistan en Pakistan, de Hindoe's seem never to resist the islam very much.Mahatma Gandhi want peace with the moslims despite what they have done in the past, his descendants Jawaharlal Nehru and his daughter Indira Ghandi even tried to hide all the autrocities that happened when they were in charge, for the world.All trhee of them are brahman.The kast of the teachers they call Nehru also Pandit Nehru.They knew everything about the Hinduísme.
Is that maybe because Allah ( Durga) was the wife of one of their highest Diety they call Maha Dewa, an other name for Shiva?One of the trimurti? The destroyer and the renewer? And everything that happened , with the Hindu's, is the wil oft this God?
http://www.hinduism.co.za/kaabaa.htm
From this link you can find everything you want to know about the hindu religion
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust/
In this link you can read the history of the clash of Islam with the hindu's
luckybee, thank you for these links.
Some time ago, there was a posting about a mainstream pakistani expert Zaid Hamid. He claimed that hindu zionists (whatever it means) carried out mumbai attacks. So, I searched on youtube. Apparently, 6 months ago, Zaid Hamid did a whole series about hindu zionism in mainstream Pakistani TV. He compares hindus to pre-Islamic Mecca, Pakistan to Medina and Khybar to Israel. And so his twisted mind advocates destruction of Israel (similar to what Muhammad did to Khybar before he could defeat Mecca). That explains why Israelis were targeted in Mumbai. Why, he is shown in mainstream Pakistani channels is beyond me.
If you don't believe me, just search for hindu zionism or Zaid Hamid on youtube and look for episode 1. You would need to understand Urdu.
I wonder whether Zaid Hamid had enough of a following in Pakistan, and enough organization behind him, to inspire and carry out the attacks on Mumbai. Don't know, just asking. A more plausible reason would appear to be that Israelis were targeted in Mumbai because of Israel's defense connections with India, rather than because they were Jews. Anyone else with any information about this?
"I wonder whether Zaid Hamid had enough of a following in Pakistan, and enough organization behind him"
I was not blaming him for attacks either. I was blaming the collective thought process of the whole society. He does appear in mainstream channels regularly and expresses such views with the host agreeing and all other guests nodding. How can you do that if the society does not consider his opinions mainstream? He regularly uses words like 'hindu zionist', 'neocon zionist', 'christian zionist' without being challenged.
I must confess to not being knowledgeable about this Hindu Zionist thing, but it truly is a fascinating, if somewhat bizarre, phenomenon. Christian Zionism makes sense, but Neocon Zionism? It's a strange conflation of terms we (in the West, at least) normally do not consider to have much (none, actually) overlap. Maybe we could try our hands at inventing some new terms of our own, if for no other reason than to jerk some chains. How about Islamic Zionism? ;-))
Eastview:
"...would appear to be that Israelis were targeted in Mumbai because of Israel..."
It amazes me that in these days and times there are still those who do not understand what it is about. That the ultimate goal is to erase all civilizations other than Islam particularly in the Middle East. That there is nothing India or Israel or anyone for that matter could do or say that would change that. That they targeted "only" Christians and Jews doesn't necessarily mean that Hindus are safe, but simply that the former were an easier target. They want a Muslim India,and this is not the end of it.
swilliams, not sure I get your drift. The thread was about an Indian counter insurgency police officer who may have aided the terrorists. Although religious factors are the focus of this forum, other factors play a role, too. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India-Israel_relations for a short summary of Indo-Israli relations. In this case, Israel and India were sharing intelligence information about Islamic terrorists. This suggests that the Israelis might have been targeted for this specific reason, which is different than targeting them on general grounds of antisemitism.
Eastview, it probably has something to do with this:
The apostle said, "Kill any Jew who falls into your power." Thereupon Muhayyisa b. Masud leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant with whom they had social and business relations, and killed him. Huwayyisa was not a Muslim at the time though he was the elder brother. When Muhayyisa killed him Huwayyisa began to beat him, saying, 'You enemy of God, did you kill him when much of the fat on your belly comes from his wealth?' Muhayyisa answered, 'Had the one who ordered me to kill him ordered me to kill you I would have cut your head off.'" -Ishaq, p. 369
or this:
Narrated Muhayyisah: The Apostle of Allah said: If you gain a victory over the men of Jews, kill them. So Muhayyisah jumped over Shubaybah, a man of the Jewish merchants. He had close relations with them. He then killed him. At that time Huwayyisah (brother of Muhayyisah) had not embraced Islam. He was older than Muhayyisah. When he killed him, Huwayyisah beat him and said: O enemy of Allah, I swear by Allah, you have a good deal of fat in your belly from his property. -Sunan of Abu Dawud, Book 13, Number 2996
Luckybee, you might enjoy Koneraad Elst's "Negationism in India." It's a fantastic read, not to mention a great lesson for the West, who are engaged in the same upside-down presentation of history.
jdamn, thanks. I'm familiar with these and the justification they provide for terrorism, as anyone who reads these pages will be. I was hoping to elicit further reply from swilliams. It's just that, even though the MO of these guys was typical of crazed Muslim psychopaths, method of the perpetrators doesn't necessarily equate to motive of the planners. To assume it does, or not to recognize there this is an important distinction, makes one every bit as mindless as the Muslim drones. The scale of logistical support and overall planning seemed to suggest there was more behind the effort than a desire to get their 72 virgins. It'd be great if someone out there, say from India, had any further information about this.
They wanted attention. They got it. Abul Kasem summed it up pretty well, I think: http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1813
They reprinted his article in Frontpage.
Eastview
"In this case, Israel and India were sharing intelligence information about Islamic terrorists. This suggests that the Israelis might have been targeted for this specific reason, which is different than targeting them on general grounds of antisemitism."
To say that "Israelis have been targeted because Israel..." is the same as saying "Hitler killed Jews because the Jews..." It's distributing the responsibility for these atrocities.
They don't need a reason to target Jews, because Jew hatred is the dope they grow up on and it receives the legitimacy of religion since they can, for a moment, relive a scene from the life of their prophet, the massacre of Khaybar.
In Mumbai,Westerners and Hindus mainly were killed but Muslims were spared. Since the main objective of the planners is always to destabilize the country they hit, this will cause the antagonism between Hindus and Muslims to deepen (or so they hope). It will also create a rift between the population and the government, considered incapable to protect them.
"Since the main objective of the planners is always to destabilize the country they hit..."
Posted by swilliams.
OK, so then how does killing Israeli residents of Mumbai contribute to the destabilization of India?
luckybee
Nehru and Indira Gandhi disdained Hinduism and Hindus: their dream was to de-Hinduize India as much as possible so that it could be molded in their image, and to a point, they succeeded. Gandhi had a twisted idea of what Hinduism was, and none of his actions could be seen emulating that which came from Hindu scriptures.
On this officer, that's the problem - it's hard to tell whose side they are on.
"OK, so then how does killing Israeli residents of Mumbai contribute to the destabilization of India?
Posted by: Eastview
I didn't say killing Israeli residents would destabilize India.
As ro those Chabad victims being "Israelis", they saw them as "Jews" not as "Israeli residents." The terrorists are said to have surveyed the place a year in advance. So they collected enough intelligence to know that this is an organization headquartered in NY, not in Israel. That Rabbi happens to be from Israel but he could have been from anywhere on the planet. They don't get involved in politics and to my knowledge they don't go to the army. In fact, one of the victims - whom I think was also a Rabbi- was an anti-Zionist living in Israel and his family demanded to remove the Israeli flag wrapping his coffin when he was taken home with the other victims.
So much for "Israeli residents."
sjwilliams. Indeed. In reading your other posts I think we're basically on the same side. Welcome to JW!