Temperatures continuing to rise. "India Demands Action From Pakistan," by Matthew Rosenberg and Eric Bellman, from the Wall Street Journal, December 1 (thanks to DFS):
MUMBAI, India -- With evidence of a Pakistani link to the attack on Mumbai growing, India demanded Monday that Islamabad hand over two important terror suspects and warned that relations between the nuclear-armed rivals would suffer if swift action isn't taken.Indian officials told Pakistan's senior envoy to New Delhi of the demands after summoning him to the foreign ministry, said an official familiar with the meeting.
"He was informed that the recent terrorist attack on Mumbai was carried out by elements from Pakistan," the foreign ministry said in a statement after the meeting. India "expects that strong action would be taken against those elements, whosoever they may be, responsible for this outrage."
The two men India is pressing Pakistan to turn over have long topped New Delhi's most wanted list. They are Dawood Ibrahim, a one-time Mumbai gangster with ties to everyone from Bollywood power brokers to Islamic militants, and Maulana Masood Azhar, the leader of the banned Pakistani militant group Jaish-e-Mohammed, who was once jailed in India.
Both men have been accused of orchestrating previous attacks in India, but neither has been directly implicated in last week's assault on Mumbai that left at least 172 people dead and 239 wounded. Diplomats and political analysts say that suggests India is using the international outrage over the attack to pressure Pakistan for a broader crackdown against Islamist militant groups and individuals believed to be targeting India, which has suffered more than a dozen terror bombings in the past three years.
There was no immediate reaction from Pakistan to the Indian demands....
From article: There was no immediate reaction from Pakistan to the Indian demands....
Pakistan's a little slow...
In the meantime, the Paki based jihadists can cause further uproar, and probably a war, by attacking again in a similar manner.
At the moment, they hold all the cards...
While India demands Jihadis, Pakistan offers 'joint-inquiry'. Much like OJ helping Chris Darton with the 'glove'.
And we all know, OJ is desperately looking for Nicole's killer.
Meanwhile, in Pakistan every party has rallied around the government, or rather rallied around the idea of Pakistan refusing to yield to any Indian demands, no matter how obviously justified. And in the northwest frontier, some tribes have even offered a temporary truce so that Pakistani Army troops can be moved away, back to the borders with India, hated because Hindu India.
All that is telling. Islam will out. Nothing can overcome, among the primitive minds in its thrall, the tug, the pull, the demand for total loyalty to, Islam. And that means never allowing a Muslim to be handed over to any non-Muslim authority.
Just watch. Just see if the govnerment of Pakistan complies. It won't. It can't.
Hugh sez:
Just watch. Just see if the govnerment of Pakistan complies. It won't. It can't.
Of course not.
The most likely scenario is that they will be shot while trying to escape. But who will shoot them?
There are a few issues that nobody has answered on this issue:
IF Pakistan had banned the LeT in 2002(declared a terrorist organization by the US) and the JUD (a follow-on-charity that the LeT currently hides behind) has also been declared a terrorist organization in 2006 by us:
(see http://www.hindu.com/2006/04/29/stories/2006042906541200.htm)
- then how come LeT/JuD still owns and runs a 200 acre heavily guarded farm at Muridke (just outside Lahore) - this farm is used to train terrorists amongst other things
- several training camps/outlets all across Pakistan are still run by the LeT
- recently the head of LeT obtained permission to get a bullet-proof Toyota Land Cruiser - not only that, the Pakistani government seems to have have done away with import taxes on this vehicle, allowing the LeT chief to buy this vehicle duty free
- LeT has not stopped open fund raising and jihadi-advertisement sessions all over Pakistan, including right in the middle of Islamabad/Rawalpindi
Quite frankly, the LeT is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Pakistani army and there is no indication to demonstrate that this has changed.
Via MEMRI:
"If India attacks,Several Pakistans Will Be Created Within India"..
Pakistan with its allies will first make EU & USA as new Pakistans. Once that is done only then India is threatened. Neither will happen.
India has lot of patience. Rest of the world has no idea of it. The whole Indian history is a living evidence and witness to it.
The appearance of Mahatma Gandhi in India was no Godly Miracle. He was a product of the then events. After his passing away world/India has not come to an end.
The destiny of the world is tied to the destiny of India. Its extinction will only prove then the Temporary/Transient nature of this world.
The world had better thinkers and philosophers in the past of BC world. AD world has only brought 'intellectual stink'.!!
And yet, if India pushes things in any way, they will be seen as the aggressor.
Sad that the US will probably choose Pakistan over India just so supply lines to waste blood and treasure on useless and moribund Afghanistan can be secured.
There are many things responsible/happenning in this context:
1. India has had an 'appeasement' attitude towards militants - no wonder they keep doing this.
2. The US will again likely choose Pakistan's side - as they have always done. I personally cannot understand why they could not choose a secular democracy like India to be their ally, instead continuing to bestow Pakistan - a country that has been a state sponsor for terrorism, a country ruined by dictators.
3. The US media is also totally focused on the Pakistan story (taking its cue from the government's attitude). Ever since the Mumbai strike occured, the media has paraphrased India's stand, but presents real audio and video clips of Pakistani's defending their country and government. CNN, Larry King, and NPR - all of them. Larry King is interviewing Pak's PM, why the heck didnt he get to someone from India? NPR interviewed a Pak journalist who (of course) said that the Pak government had nothing to do with this - the Pakistanis are now rallying against India for making the (qualified) accusations - this is hypocrycy to the core - go burn down another man's house, and then protest in the streets when that man accuses you of burning your house down.
quite interesting article on the Mumbai terrorist strategy:
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1208/stratfor120208.php3?printer_friendly
Kash225 wrote:
The world had better thinkers and philosophers in the past of BC world. AD world has only brought 'intellectual stink'.!!
....................
Uh...really? Certainly there were great ancient thinkers--Socrates, Plato, Cicero, and--especially--Aristotle.
And yes, there are modern embarrassments such as Sartre and Derida, who are responsible for so much of the "deconstruction" and moral equivalence that are hampering the West's fight against Islam and other nihilistic creeds.
But are you really condemning out of hand William of Ockham, John Locke, David Hume, Voltaire, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, Adam Smith, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and all the other great thinkers of the Enlightenment?
Perhaps you might reconsider.
Of course, the Pakistanis won't give them up!
Islam cannot police itself. There is always that blind loyalty and blind obedience thing. Islam cannot do the right thing.
HUGH: "All that is telling. Islam will out. Nothing can overcome, among the primitive minds in its thrall, the tug, the pull, the demand for total loyalty to, Islam."
And this is precisely why the idea that an Arab genocide against the Kurds or the Darfurese will somehow awaken non-Arab Muslims to the evils of Arab imperialism are absurd. The only ones who will be "awakened" are those dying en mass.
The revelation that the Holtzbergs may have been expecting their 2nd baby was shocking. What's also still an uneasy probability is the fact that only 10 jihadis had been killed. Ten jihadis couldn't have pulled off what they did in each of the hotels: there had to be more. What's now being reported is that a lot of the jihadis, during the standoff, had the opportunity to change into the clothes of some of the victims and join the hostages in leaving the premises: they are now at large, and at liberty to pull off anything anywhere.
Comforting thought.
But are you really condemning out of hand William of Ockham, John Locke, David Hume, Voltaire, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, Adam Smith, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and all the other great thinkers of the Enlightenment?
gravenimage..
yes I do feel sorry for a sweep about AD thing. But such men (and women too) are so damn needed now. Lets be optimistic and time will throw some !