But probably mostly carrots. "Obama vows tough diplomacy with Iran," from AFP, December 7 (thanks to Weasel Zippers):
WASHINGTON (AFP) – US president-elect Barack Obama vowed "tough but direct diplomacy" with Iran, offering incentives along with the threat of tougher sanctions to disarm the Islamic republic's nuclear drive."We need to ratchet up tough but direct diplomacy with Iran," he said in an interview aired Sunday on NBC program "Meet the Press."
As president from January 20, Obama said he would make clear to Tehran that the nuclear program was "unacceptable," along with its support of militant groups such as Hamas and Hezbollah, and its "threats against Israel."
Obama, whose offer of direct talks with Iran represents a break with three decades of US foreign policy, promised a "set of carrots and sticks in changing their calculus about how they want to operate."
Carrots would include economic incentives to the cash-strapped oil producer and greater access to the international trading system, he said....
Yep, that'll end their jihad against Israel, all right.
She may not be John Bolton, but Hillary Clinton as Sec of State is a big improvement over Condi Rice. She did express tougher views on Iran than Obama in the campaign. Hope springs eternal in my canine breast.
Big typekey timeout issue here...
Yes, we can buy them off. At least this could be the way that Iran is looking at it.
the Mullahs will refuse, they want it their ways
From the article:
"Carrots would include economic incentives to the cash-strapped oil producer and greater access to the international trading system"...
The mullahs will interpret it as jizya, pocket the money and use it for their 'peaceful' nuclear project.
She may not be John Bolton, but Hillary Clinton as Sec of State is a big improvement over Condi Rice. She did express tougher views on Iran than Obama in the campaign. Hope springs eternal in my canine breast.
Posted by: jewdog
Your canine breast. Remember the lion of Judah? Cats are not canines.
Let's not forget, Ms. Clinton is the first high-ranking U.S. official to call for the establishment of Muslim-terror state in Israel. Bush followed Clinton's lead. Maybe she is better than Dr. Rice.
After listening to a litany of atrocities the Jews committed against Palestinian children -- including poisonings and other terrible things -- Ms. Clinton embraced the late Yasser Arafat's murderous wife? Clinton hugged her closely.
Hope springs eternal but maybe after a mushroom cloud envelops the Holy Land, the Jews will finally wake up to the fact, Bush and Obama are not Israel's friend.
If Prophet Elect Obama thinks he is going to approach Beasty Boy Ahamdinijad and the mad mullahs from a position of superiority, he has another think coming.
If he bows and scrapes, and offers enough jizya, they might listen to him, but there are no guarantees...
If Prophet Elect Obama thinks he is going to approach Beasty Boy Ahamdinijad and the mad mullahs from a position of superiority, he has another think coming.
If he bows and scrapes, and offers enough jizya, they might listen to him, but there are no guarantees...
Israel's given up on the US. They're going to do what they want to do, God bless 'em. Obama knows it's jizya. He campaigned on doubling jizya to states which we have no business even recognizing. He wants Beslan and 9/11 every day, and he wants to complete Hitler's final solution while double-talking to us.
Carrot & Stick side note:
Of course we are closely watching the new array of trading partners and allies that Iran is teaming up with in South America. Hugo Chavez's Venezuela who is buddying up with Ahmadineghad with its huge oil reaserves ,then there is Bolivia's Leftwing dictator Evo Morales who may have the 2nd largest natural gas reserves in all of South America. Morales said " we will work together from this day on, for our people, for life and for humanity.. Ahmadinejad called Morales his "dear brother" and said his trip will be "the start of deep relations between both governments."
Ahmadinejad's trips to South America underscores Iran's strengthening links to Latin American nations that also include Nicaragua, and Ecuador even as the United States continues and tries to isolate Iran
Internationally.Ahmadinejhad recognizes that if he can get a foothold in Latin America, he can continue to spread his hatred for the United States,". It is interesting to note that it is only taking around 8.8 billion dollars of Iranian investment into these 4 south American Countries to get a buddy up connection between Iran and them. After all what do these predominately Catholic Countries have in common with this Shia Mulluhocracy, of course absolutely nothing, but like so many they are to naive to see what they are buying into from Iran.
It's too bad that neither Chuck Jones nor Fritz Freleng are still alive; either one of them would have made a better SoS than the mendacious Hillary. And as for BHO, he's like one of the characters they directed; Bugs Bunny would have made short work of him.
There ARE to be preconditions before US and Iran sit down in discussions....Iranian preconditions, and Obama appears poised to meet them.
BO like all liberal politicians before him jimmy carter, clinton ect. will grovel at the feet of islamist states, and insist that Israel give up more land for peace, and ask nothing of the muslim horde.
Only if the newest ballistic missile in an Obama arsenal going to be ironically nicknamed called 'The Carrot' does this folly make sense.
I'm a little surprised Obama used the expression "carrots and sticks" with regard to Iran. The usage seems either intentionally or unintentionally offensive, since it conceives those in the Iranian government as beasts who must be moved around by means of external inducements only. That may be accurate, but those at whom it is aimed will still likely be offended. Offending them is not necessarily a bad thing. But one wonders why Obama would want to do that. "Carrots and sticks" are used to bring about...submission, and a very humiliating sort of submission, the kind yielded by beasts of burden. What is going on here?
Or if Obama didn't intend the offense, then it shows an unfortunate weakness in his command of the message he puts out, which weakness, particularly in such dangerous times, could lead to problems...
Heck, what's a few hundred billion dollars?
We're passing out billion dollar bailout dough like candy; why not give a few billion dollars to fund Iran's nuke program so they can kill us all?
Sounds like a plan to me.
Ineedajob will take Obamas stick and hit him with it until he eats his own Carrot.
I d’nno, Obama has no “white guilt” (Jimmy Carter) and he HAS played the “Chicago Thug” role.
I my wildest (and most improbable I suppose) fantasies, the prize fight “Ahamdinijad vs. Obama” just might be surprising.
One thing Obama has that the Bush administration didn't have is world popularity. Like Obama or not - he seems to be the world's (especially Europe's) sweetheart. Anything Aham..whatever says or does is going to make him look like the desperate guy without a date to the prom. It just might bring more world pressure on him, and maybe it won't cost us as much as it would if he actually used one of his new "toys."
TRAEH: "I'm a little surprised Obama used the expression "carrots and sticks" with regard to Iran.
The usage seems either intentionally or unintentionally offensive, since it conceives those in the Iranian government as beasts who must be moved around by means of external inducements only."
RESPONSE: The expression was meant for domestic consumption. It was designed to disguise US concessions as tactically motivated.
I agree with traeh that "carrot and stick" seemed a little clumsy and needlessly undiplomatic and provocative. Not that I give a hoot what Iran might think, but such language would seem to limit his maneuverability on the diplomatic stage. Of course it may have been, probably was in fact, not careless at all, but rather carefully chosen language intended to carry a very specific message. I would think Obama would be better off just keeping his mouth shut about what he's "going" to do blah, blah, blah, and just lay the groundwork so he can start doing it when he assumes office on 20 January. We'll all judge after the fact whether it's the right thing or not.
Only a few more weeks to go, folks. What do you think the odds are that when he reaches the bottom of the podium stairs after being sworn in as president he will turn to the left vs turning to the right?
Cornelius: "The expression was meant for domestic consumption. It was designed to disguise US concessions as tactically motivated."
Perhaps. But if they are not going to be tactically motivated, what motivation would you attribute to Obama if he makes concessions? Do you believe he has no realistic sense of the need to exercise power, and that he thinks pure concessions will get him the furthest, whereas the exercise of power will only hurt him?
I don't know. I don't get the feeling from his political behavior that he is completely unaware of the need, in dealing with some players, to keep the big stick at the ready; more precisely, he surely knows of the need to include the potential use of force as a factor in "negotiations" with thugs like the Iranian leadership.
But maybe you think he believes anybody, even the Iranian leadership, can be brought to see reason, if we only show good will and make some concessions. And perhaps you believe that the only reason he mentions the carrot and especially the stick is to hide his view that the Iranian leadership can be trusted to be reasonable if the U.S. will only make amends for...whatever. So speaking of "carrot and stick" looks tough and "realistic," even if in his heart of hearts, he doesn't believe they really are realistic. I suspect Obama is more complicated than that, to judge by the way he chooses and uses his advisers, and when one considers his learning habits.
I expect this is gonna get messy. That One, though now 'president elect' is still a political neophyte. After he's rolled by the likes of Pelosi, Reid, and (shudder) Frank, he will shake himself off and go to reason with the mullahs and ahmeni-nutjob.
Those Ones will take his stick and leave it planted in him like a flagpole. Buzzsaw don't quite describe it.
TRAEH,
It remains to be seen what kind of Commander-in-Chief Obama turns out to be. If his resume is any indication, he is clearly a proponent of "soft power", i.e., diplomacy.
Dialogue with a government like Iran, one captivated by Islamic exigents, will either be fruitless...or will result in protocols that will have the unmistakable stench of appeasement.
Carrots and sticks?
Wow, why didn't we think of that before?
The man's a genius, nodoubtaboutit.
jewdog
HRC as first lady was the first to suggest recognizing a Pali state (which GWB later compounded by actually recognizing). Even if she were to be a loose cannon in this administration, she does not inspire confidence that the right thing will be done even vis a vis Iran.
But I do agree in one sense - there isn't much to choose from between Hilary and Condi, or Obama and Bush. Both have been disastrous for the Infidel cause.
"One thing Obama has that the Bush administration didn't have is world popularity. Like Obama or not - he seems to be the world's (especially Europe's) sweetheart. "
If it seems to be,- don't believe that for a moment. The Euro's want a free ride and weasel out of every responsibility. Because he was welcomed in Berlin? Obama's Berlin reception is meaningless, absolutely meaningless. Why? Because Berlin is the worst commie-nest in Europe, San Fran in drag so to speak. Anarcho's and one-legged lesbians joined at the hip with Muhammedan subversives and Socialist utopians: foggeddaboddit!
They want something for nothing and they are well aware that a fool like him will only weaken America. And all they want is to see America destroyed. Don't take my word for it. Been there, done it to death. They are whores looking for a sugar daddy, and the Obaminator is in no position to oblige....
As usual, O doesn't know what he's talking about. Ahmadinejad's regime has never been excluded from the "international trading system." Russia, France, and Germany have had dealings with it. Furthermore, since the mullahs have prevented Iran's economy from modernizing, Iran has little to offer other nations besides oil; the trade that it's had with those European countries has to do with the oil and nuclear industries. The near-collapse of its economy since the price of oil on the international market dropped shows how dependent it is on that one commodity. O's carrot couldn't be an offer to buy more Iranian oil, because oil is a fungible commodity, the price of which is set by worldwide supply and demand. But facts don't matter; this megalomaniac got elected by intoning empty words, and he believes the same confidence trick will work internationally.
Skip the carrots and move straight to the sticks.
_ The godbunny.
December 7th--a "date that shall live in infamy"--how few Americans have learned about Pearl Harbor? More disturbing yet--what would the reaction to a Pearl Harbor-style attack be today? Would we declare war against the perpetrators as we did in 1941, and have huge numbers of ordinary citizens rush to join the armed services?
Or would there be calls, from Europe, from some American politicians and pundits, from Japan itself, not to "overreact". Would many claim, spuriously, that Japan, and China, and the US were "working out their problems" or "were close to reaching new understandings" before the attack, and that if we reacted at all, that we would be doing exactly what the attackers wanted?
Of course, this sounds ridiculous for 1941. But now? I wonder.
After 15 tries to sign in on this thread and the Pakistan one above...I give up...........
excluded from the "international trading system." Russia, France, and Germany have had dealings with it. Furthermore, since the mullahs have prevented Iran's economy from modernizing, Iran has little to offer other nations besides oil; the trade that it's had with those European countries has to do with the oil and nuclear industries.
RUBBISH!!!
Germany has NO Nuclear power
France stopped her nuclear collaboration with Iran since 1978.
Though the Mullah attacked France on her soil with many terrorist attacks because of this old contentious agreements with the Shah, that have been solved when finally France paid back the Shah participation in EURODIF society
Russia is the possibly helping state, though complicated with the fluctuant emotional policies of the mullahs
So, before propagating some falsh rumors, check your dires
I hate it when our leaders uses pusillanimous words like “unacceptable” in warning foreign governments. What the hell does that mean from Obama? That we won’t like it? That we’ll call them bad names if they continue? That’s the sort of word that’s fine when teachers tell her pupil that his homework is “unacceptable”, but not US presidents when warning an enemy! Obama should tell Tehran that their nuclear threat will not be permitted to exist and will be stopped by force. If he can’t say that they know he’s just not worth much attention.
Iran Rejects Obama's Carrot and Stick Policy
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,463324,00.html
I already said it above