India hunts for a "Mafia don"
In this story from The Australian, India is demanding that Pakistan turn over a "Mafia don." Anything to avoid calling a jihadist a jihadist.
"Military chiefs urge raid inside Pakistan," by Bruce Loudon for The Australian, December 3 (thanks to Jeffrey Imm):
PAKISTAN was bracing last night for a retaliatory airstrike by India against the sprawling headquarters of the al-Qa'ida-linked Lashkar-e-Toiba terrorist organisation near Lahore.As Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari warned the LET militants "had the power to precipitate war in the region", India demanded that Islamabad hand over a list of about 20 people, including India's most-wanted man Dawood Ibrahim.
India's military chiefs were exerting strong pressure on the country's political leaders to give permission to attack the headquarters, an 80ha site at Muridke, close to the Punjab capital of Lahore, just across the border from India.
The reports came as the Indian Government summoned the Pakistani high commissioner in New Delhi yesterday to demand "strong action" against the Pakistani militants who it says were responsible for last week's attacks on Mumbai.
New Delhi warned Shahid Malik that India expected Islamabad to take "swift action" to deal with the evidence of involvement by LET operating from bases inside Pakistan.
India demanded that Islamabad extradite Ibrahim, a fugitive Mumbai mafia don who it believes has links to LET, the terrorist group long allied to Pakistan's ISI spy agency.
Mafia don?
India also asked for Hafiz Mohammad Saeed, the LET founder, and Maulana Masood Azhar, the head of militant group Jaish-e-Mohammad, who was freed in exchange for passengers on a hijacked Indian Airlines flight in 1999.
"Saeed's a pimp. He never could've out-fought India. But I didn't know until this day that it was Dawood Ibrahim all along."
Ibrahim, Mumbai's most notorious underworld don, is the head of D-Company, a feared crime syndicate, and one of the world's five most wanted men. He is widely believed to have worked closely with al-Qa'ida. He is also thought to have masterminded the 1993 Mumbai bombings, a series of 13 explosions that claimed 250 lives....
Time to "go to the mattresses".
Where's Fredo?
Drop the bomb, but don't forget the canolli's. The way I see it...we're making progress. At least the mob has more negative connotations than the religion of peace. Maybe, just maybe, this will be the straw that breaks the camels back (excuse the pun).
Oh well... the Ummah does appear, from a certain POV, to be the longest-running and biggest and nastiest organised crime 'family' in human history...the religious/ cultic aspects may be compared to the infamous 'omerta' (except, as I think jdamn has pointed out, they are much, much worse...) or to the codes and rituals of groups such as the Thuggees and the Triads.
Where is the boundary between organised crime, as carried out by Mohammedans, and the practice of Jihad and Sharia?
Jizya is extortion and blackmail. Dhimmitude is about surviving - barely - at the whim of swaggering gangsters who are taught to hate you and despise you and do what they like to you.
Dhimmis survive just so long as the greed of their Mohammedan overlords outweighs the Quranic imperative to humiliate and murder. Periodically, the will to murder overcomes commonsense; so, over time, the Muslims destroy their 'host', as all the dhimmis are wiped out, or give up in despair and join the Muslim Mob (like a bullied kid in the playground, selling out and joining the bullies).
Then the Mob starts eating itself, figuratively speaking, or goes looking for a new host to parasitise unto death.
Look at what's happening in and around Mohammedan colonies and Mohammedan societies (= kleptocracies, lootocracies) everywhere.
I've read through three years worth of the archives here, and the news reports, from every part of the Islamosphere, and from the behaviour of Mohammedans in the kafir lands, all add up to one horrifying picture. Drug-running, slaving, people trafficking, pimping, pedophilia (all those jihadis found in the UK recently, with the ugliest kind of kiddie porn on their computers), every imaginable variety of theft and fraud, gingered up with a steady drumbeat of rape and murder both in-house and against non-Muslims.
Crime boss or jihadist gang boss? - frankly, it's a distinction without a difference.
A successful strategy ?
Bet those drones don't seem so bad now, huh?
Leave the gun. Take the samosas.
Whooooo, hold your horses guys! Stop the press!
British Muslims are active in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq plus there are many notable Muslims Hamza et al who have until recently been given safe haven.
Would we expect an airstrike from India or America?
Pakistan is on the edge, they have just lost Bhutto to Islamists fundamentalists and now they face an airstrike which would unite every fundie from the NW frontier to Bangledesh. Do we really want to encourage the break up of Pakistan?
Guys keep cool, I'd rather see Pakistan and India join forces and fight together, if at all possible, rather than see a Pakistan be taken over by the radicals, an armed nuclear power, allied to Iran et al.
Right now we need to support Pakistans amazing contribution to the war against the fundies.
Better the devil you know.
Hugh
Mmmmmm, samosas.
Yrs
Robert
What does announcing to the world they are considering attacking the "sprawling" Lashkar-e-Toiba headquarters accomplish? If India were serious about this they would just do it, quickly, violently and thoroughly, making sure to completely flatten the place and taking out as many of the resident jihadis as they could. The U.S. should provide whatever reconnaissance and air cover support the Indians need to do the job. India should then announce this is just a warm up exercise, and that negotiations to limit further strikes could begin once the Lashkar leadership was turned over to India for prosecution.
But, instead, they're engaging in political posturing. In the meantime, because of the media announcement the jihadis have time to vacate the premises and take anything of value with them. If they do anything at all, India will do no more than launch a token airstrike with much huzzahs to satisfy the media, which will destroy a few buildings. Pakistan will loudly complain to the U.N. about violation of its sovereignty, and the OIC will come to its defense. Muslims across the world will take to the streets in protest after Friday prayers, with a few dozen lives, all Muslim, being lost in the accompanying violence, and Condaleeza Rice will make her usual plaintive and ineffective plea, "why can't we all just get along?" After the dust settles, the jihadis will view this as an opportunity to renovate their headquarters, and build bigger and newer facilities. Business as usual will return.
Did I leave out anything?
"What does announcing to the world they are considering attacking the "sprawling" Lashkar-e-Toiba headquarters accomplish? "
Precisely!!!!
This is exactly what GWB did post 9/11, instead of sending in special ops, paying off taliban commanders he chose to balls it up and send in ground troops.
This "war" could've been polished off many years ago with a bit of hush hush and wink wink from all sides. plus billions of dollars.
What's the difference between Pakistan protecting Lashkar-e-Toiba, Jaish-e-Mohammad, Dawood Ibrahim & co. and Afghanistan's Taliban protecting al-Quaeda and Osama bin Laden in 2001 ?
If Pakistan continues to protect these international terrorists, they should be clearly told that they will get a three front war - U.S. forces pushing down from Afghanistan to Peshwar and Islamabad, India pushing in from Punjab, and U.S. marines landing in Karachi and pushing the supplies north, with bonus full strenght U.S. air strikes from the Arabian sea. Make the Pakistan military's choice be between fighting terrorism or fighting a U.S.-India coalition. While they think they can choose to just fight/blackmail India, they will protect their terrorist 'assets'.
davidp
"If Pakistan continues to protect these international terrorists, they should be clearly told that they will get a three front war -"
Britain is protecting many islamic extremists. We neither arrest them or expose them for fear of being branded as racist. We sit back, wait until they commit or attempt to commit an act of terror then arrest them.
Should India bomb London?
Should America launch predator drone attacks over Bradford England?
Relished Ralph Peters' description of Pakistan the other day in the New York Post: It's not a country, it's chaos with a Parliament.
Keeping with the Godfather paradigm, India should wait a few months, giving no indication of any intention to strike, then conduct a surprise attack that completely decapitates Pakistan.
"Tonite we settle all Family business"
Michael: "Should India bomb London?"
No, but perhaps some Indian assassins should take out the Islamic extremists, without regard for where they are.
There is no more ham in America, because I ate it all.
undaunted, exsgtbrown, 11B40 -
What are your recommendations following the Mumbai business? I want to know what men-of-action think.
Undaunted, thank you for protecting our troops in your anti-drug ops. days...
Dumledorsarmy - excellent posts and information. Thank you.
Independent confirmation about the involvement of the LeT...From today's article in Washington post...
(see http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/01/AR2008120103134.html?hpid=topnews)
[Speaking in London, U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Monday that American and British citizens had been "singled out" for attack by the assailants. Officials in Washington, meanwhile, said they had independently corroborated Indian intelligence that links the attacks to Lashkar-i-Taiba, a Pakistan-based extremist group with roots in the disputed Kashmir region. ]
Are Indians capable of mounting a Munich-style operation? I don't think so. India tends to respect international law. Frankly, I'm not sure even the Israelis are capable of mounting another Munich-style operation in this day and age, given their domestic political squabbling these days.
The infidels are divided and indecisive, while the Islamists are very united in their purpose, and in their commitment to brutal methods.
[Pakistans amazing contribution to the war against the fundies.]
Yep - without Pakistan - we wouldn't have had a war against the "fundies". Recall, the incubation of the Taliban and sending $100k to Atta.
Incidentally, the Taliban was scaled by Nasarallah Babbar, under the close guidance and tutelage of Bhutto - she helped feed and grow the Taliban and escalated the terror war in Kashmir, openly.
Pakistan would not receive any of our dollars without it being a terror state - their elite know it. Would we really pump in $29B into Pakistan, if it weren't a terrorist state - and if it stopped being a terrorist state - this monies would also disappear.
Thank you, Mr Spencer, for your forwardness in the recent FrontPage Magazine interview. I read your site for some time before it dawned on me that all our frustration must have its natural culmination in action and in this interview you explain the most humane, and possibly most effective, course: the separation of Us from Them.
It is a shocking proposition at first, even more so for the majority that believes Islam is just another nub of multiculturalism or peaceful religion. Many people will never accept the idea that Islam can be the source of anything malignant, but perhaps they will take notice at the suggestion that its adherents be barred from entering the U.S.
Some Muslims here now, especially those foreign-born, should be be given financial incentives to move back home. Americans should write to their congressional reps and exhort them to STOP the planned immigration of more Iraqis-- something like 90,000 or so are intended for FY 2009-- to the U.S. as "refugees". If Iraq is undergoing such a splendid transformation, why do they need to flee? Promises made?
From WW II the Muslim world knows well our defensive and offensive resolve when survival is really on the line. The idea is to avoid getting to that stage.
Michael: "Should India bomb London?"
PapaBear: "No, but perhaps some Indian assassins should take out the Islamic extremists, without regard for where they are."
It might make sense for Indian assassins to "take out" Islamic extremists on third nation territory if this were only a bi-national problem.
The only thing that surprises me, and that not much, is how many people expect the government to do everything for them. No wonder Obama got elected.
Those discouraging India from attacking Pakistan remind me of American cold war intelligence "experts" who didn't see the end of the USSR coming and did all they could to prevent such a scenario from occuring in the first place. It did anyway, despite their moral unclarity. Reagan threw down the gauntlet, and the USSR dropped like a lead ballon.
Islam's time to go has come, and we are waiting for a Reagan to step up to the plate and smash it out of the park. India has this opportunity now. Unfortunately, Islam is less rational than communism, and will require what Reagan only joked about as he ramped up the stakes in battling the Soviets:
"My fellow Americans," Reagan declared, "I am pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes."
This is precisely the sort of nonsense that infuriates me.
Pakistan is a terrorist state run by the Pakistani army, every attack is planned and executed by them and they run terrorist camps like LeT themselves. They are not going to 'fight against terror'.
Bush made a tremendous foreign policy disaster by calling Pak an ally in the 'war on terror' and giving them billions of $ and fighter jets.
Let's hope Obama has more sense.
infidel_hindu
I hope that that Pres Obama show lots of common sense, but it's going to take big brass cajones, and the will to swing them when the situation calls for more walkin' the walk and less talkin' the talk...
infidel_hindu
I hope that Pres Obama shows lots of common sense, but it's going to take big brass cajones, and the will to swing them when the situation calls for more walkin' the walk and less talkin' the talk...
"Right now we need to support Pakistans amazing contribution to the war against the fundies."
Posted by: michael calvert
The only amazing contribution the Pakistanis have made up to now is to their bank accounts using billions they have extorted from Uncle Sam under the pretext of fighting the "fundies" as you call them. They only go through the motions, enough to make it look like they're making progress, and indications are that they will never be successful. It is time to go to Plan B.
India is a natural defense partner for the U.S. in that part of the world. Recent events should have finally shaken them out of the non-aligned stupor they fell into following Ghandi and their misguided alignment with the Soviet Union. They can't take on their Muslim fifth columnists on their own, but might be able to rescue themselves with a bit of outside help. I would nominate India, along with Israel, as being the front line states most worthy of our support.
The revelation that the Holtzbergs may have been expecting their 2nd baby was shocking. What's also still an uneasy probability is the fact that only 10 jihadis had been killed. Ten jihadis couldn't have pulled off what they did in each of the hotels: there had to be more. What's now being reported is that a lot of the jihadis, during the standoff, had the opportunity to change into the clothes of some of the victims and join the hostages in leaving the premises: they are now at large, and at liberty to pull off anything anywhere.
Comforting thought.
According to the news this morning, Pakistan has been amassing troops on India's borders, and so has India. Also, all leave for Paki soldiers has been reportedly canceled.
The fact that all those attacks happened in Mumbai and that the jihadis knew the layout of the hotels so thoroughly makes it plain that there was a lot more Jihadis already in the city than those who came by boat, including some who had rented rooms in the hotels. While the Indian authorities are suspecting Dawood Ibrahim and others, it's very likely that in addition to that, if not instead of it, other Jihadi groups like SIMI and Indian Mujahideen also participated. Also, as I noted above, a large number of jihadis had the opportunity to change clothes and disguise themselves as hostages and escape with the hostages. They are still at large, and nobody knows how many.
In related developments, the Taliban in Pakistan has threatened to take over Pakistan if any action were to be taken against it. I hope they do, so that there are no more efforts to further the 'peace process' with Pakistan. Let Pakistan withdraw all its troops from Waziristan, and send them to fight India, and let US troops have a free reign in bombing the area without involving Pakistan at all.
Michael, "Britain is protecting many Islamic extremists. We neither arrest them or expose them for fear of being branded as racist. We sit back, wait until they commit or attempt to commit an act of terror then arrest them."
This is a false moral equivalence argument.
If British police catch them organising weapons, they are arrested and jailed. Yes they are limited by human rights laws that prevent them deporting to countries that torture (or execute?) prisoners, but the government, police, military oppose the terrorists to the best of their abilities and with the support of 90+% of the people.
I repeat, what's the (legal or moral) difference between Pakistan protecting Lashkar-e-Toiba, Jaish-e-Mohammad, Dawood Ibrahim & co. and Afghanistan's Taliban protecting al-Quaeda and Osama bin Laden in 2001 ?
All this talk of retaliatory strike is nonsense. The punks running the India are just going to talk for a few days then everything is going to cool down. If it was israil instead of India all hell would have already broken loose.
There is a need to end this type of islamist terror, if nothing is done tommorrow it will be in another city and another place. The moslems will create more havoc.
Keep up the pressure on the pak, and maybe the US taxpayer will be pissed off enough to say enough, no more funding the pak, just send in the drones to do the dirty work.
x-posted
A clear and continuing lack of will - Arun Shourie (Op. Ed in ExpressBuzz.com)
“Where do you think, and by whom do you think are the teachers instructed to ensure that students from Class 1 onwards “recognise the importance of jihad”; to ensure that they “must be aware of the blessings of jihad”; to ensure that they “create yearning for jihad in his heart”; to ensure that they develop “love and aspiration for jihad, tabligh, shahadat, sacrifice, ghazi, shaheed”? Where do you think, and by whom are teachers instructed to ensure that students from kindergarten onwards learn to “make speeches on jihad and shahadat”, and are “judged on their spirit while making speeches on jihad”?
Do you think these are instructions issued by the Islamic fundamentalists to maulvis in madrasas? They are instructions given by the government of Pakistan through official circulars to principals and teachers in government schools of Pakistan.
“
Be careful what you wish for, Obama seems to have a jaded history with Britain and military intervention under his command may not be off the cards.
America, I hope you arent as fat and apathetic as the coMedia have made you out to be because I predict things are about to radicaly change with your new Messiah at the helm.
Did I leave out anything?
Eastview
I think you've got it covered.
Got to remember that the mafia trace the origins to when the island of Sicily was ruled under the Arab Muslims. This is why the Islamofacists can be compared to the mafia. What lead to the downfall of the mob in America was the enforcement of the RICO laws.
What a coincidence.
I just finished re-reading "The Godfather," as it's a real page-turner.
But, the characters are Sicilian. Nothing to do with Mohammedans.
"Jihadists" are Mohammedans - end of story.
When can we make the Mohammedans an offer they can't refuse?
"jihadis knew the layout of the hotels so thoroughly makes it plain that there was a lot more Jihadis already in the city than those who came by boat, including some who had rented rooms in the hotels."
Probably had some help from Muslim staff in the hotels, you know, "moderate" Muslims.
Memo to the Indian armed forces (non-Muslim).
If you decide to do something, *don't* tell Pakistan or anyone else (except maybe Israel...) that you're going to do it.
Maintain a dark and deadly silence.
Make your choices. Acquire targets.
BOOOOM! Great big smoking holes in the ground. Fewer jihadists and fewer jihad-preaching 'clerics'.
Say nothing afterwards: no explanations or apologies.
Here is Winston Churchill's recipe for dealing with jihadists, based on his experience of the wars with the Mahdi and his jihadi hordes in the Sudan in the 19th century:
"No terms but fight or death were offered.
"No reparation or apology could be made. . .
"The red light of retribution played on the bayonets and the lances,
"and civilization—elsewhere sympathetic, merciful, tolerant, ready to discuss or to argue, eager to avoid violence, to submit to law, to effect a compromise—
"here advanced with an expression of inexorable sternness,
"and rejecting all other courses, offered only the arbitration of the sword."
Sir Winston Churchill
From The River Wars (1899).
Remember that partition - giving the Muslims the plums, the well-watered fertile lower river valleys and deltas of the Ganges and Indus, and a great big chunk of beautiful Kashmir - has NOT ended Muslim demands or Muslim aggression or Muslim whining and squawking.
The ideologues of Jihad and Sharia are driven, by their ideology, to want more, and more, and more...not just all India or, for that matter, all of Israel, but the *whole world*, to gobble up and reduce to miserable desolation.
They CANNOT be content with what they've already got, and live side by side with you; they want to annihilate you, dominate you, enslave and rob and ruin you. It's all in their book.
The only thing that will deter them is darura, 'necessity': the belief that if they try anything on, they will get hammered flat.
Time for some hammering.