Raymond Ibrahim: Are slave-girls in Islam equivalent to animals?

Thanks for that, Raymond. Very revealing.

Off topic -

It is most fitting that President Bush, who has not been able to distinguish friend from foe in eight years, is the target of a two-shoe attack - by an Iraqi 'good friend and ally' - on his farewell visit to Iraq.

What a fool he has been - and remains.

Mohammed's Ode to His Concubine:
What a face,
What figger,
Two more legs,
They'd call her Trigger.

His Ode To Aisha:
What a face,
What Chassis,
Two more legs,
They'd call her Lassie.

I would argue that all women are animals in Islam. They are possessions. Tabari even said that they are "like domestic animals." they have no control over their own lives or bodies, they are basically herded, they can be beaten like pack animals, and they exist for breeding. It's disgusting.

In Islam, all women are sex slaves. There are daughters/sister sex slaves. There are purchased sex slaves ("wives"). There are are abducted or purchased sex slaves (concubines).

These are the difference between a "wife" and "what one's right hand possesses:"

-Only 4 "wives"

-Must have the prior owner's permission for a "wife"

-Must pay a john fee for a "wife," but this also applies to concubines

-Can't beat a "wife" about the head, but if you do it doesn't matter because nobody can ask you about it

That's it.

Interesting discussion. The linguistic evidence is telling.

Some more grist for the mill:

Commenting on the Qur'anic verse Q. 30:21 which states "And of His signs is that He created for you, of yourselves, spouses, that you may repose in them" Razi said in At-Tafsir al-Kabir:

"His saying 'created for you' is a proof that women were created like animals and plants and other useful things, just as the Most High has said 'He created for you what is on earth' and that necessitates the woman not to be created for worship and carrying the Divine commands. We say creating the women is one of the graces bestowed upon us and charging them with Divine commands to complete the graces bestowed upon us, not that they are charged as we men are charged. For women are not charged with many commands as we are charged, because the woman is weak, silly, in one sense she is like a child, and no commands are laid upon a child, but for the grace of Allah upon us to be complete, women had to be charged so that they may fear the torment of punishment and so follow her husband, and keep away from what is forbidden, otherwise corruption would be rampant."[15]
Another eminent Muslim thinker, Hadi Sabzevari, in his commentary on Sadr al-Mote'alihin wrote:
That Sadr ad-Deen Shirazi classifies women as animals is a delicate allusion to the fact that women, due to the deficiency in their intelligence and understanding of intricacies, and due to their fondness of the adornments of the world, are truly and justly among the mute animals [al-haywanti al-sa^mita]. They have the nature of beasts [ad-dawwa^b], but they have been given the disguise of human beings so that men would not be loath to talk to them and be compelled to have sexual intercourse with them. That is why our immaculate Law [shar'ina al-mutahhar] takes men's side and gives them superiority in most matters, including divorce, "nushuz," etc. (Quoted in Soroush, Abdolkarim, _Farbehtar az ideoloji_, Sera^t, Tehran, 1373 A.H.S.). [A.H.S. = After the Hegira]

According to the ex-Muslims Abul Kasem, Muhammad gave a final sermon on women. He said:

"Treat women well, for they are [like] domestic animals (‘awan) with you and do not possess anything for themselves. You have taken them only as a trust from God, and you have made the enjoyment of their persons lawful by the word of God..."

That Mohammed, what a charmer.

If you treat other people as objects, and that's what we are talking about here, you develop a sense of entitlement and superiority that transcends the normal sense of empathy every human being possesses.

You become a monster.

Thus, the biggest victims of Islam are Muslims.

Muhammad: "A Woman may be likened to a sheep—even a cow or a camel—for all are ridden.”

Posted by: Josephine
That Mohammed, what a charmer.

Yep, quite the Silver Tongued Devil, he was.

Thanks for this Raymond. After reading your post I checked the other sex-with-slavegirl/right-hand possessions verses (23:6, 70:30, 4:24), and those also use "ma" in “ma malakat aymanuhum."

Of course, there is another interpretation: Islamic sanction of beastiality. That is if it can fit in or be grabbed with his hand, the Muslim can have sex with it, if not expressly forbidden. Some restrictions apply:

A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own village; however, selling the meat to the next door village should be fine.

Khomeini's book, "Tahrirolvasyleh" fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990

If one commits the act of sodomy with a cow, a ewe, or a camel, their urine and their excrement become impure, and even their milk may no longer be consumed. The animal must then be killed and as quickly as possible and burned.

The Little Green Book, Sayings of Ayatollah Khomeini, Political, Philosophical, Social and Religious, ISBN number 0-553-14032-9, page 47

I presume Khomeini thought the word "marry" was just a euphemism.

At last! Something beneficial to humanity from Islam. He he.

Hey, ladies, it's a joke. What are you doing with those hot fire pokers? Ladies, those thoughts are not civilized.

GOLFDAD'S ACCOUNT HAS BEEN TERMINATED. AFTER A LONG RESTFUL STAY IN OUR ISOLATED RE-EDUCATION FACILITY, WE ARE CONFIDENT HIS ATTITUDE WILL CHANGE IN A POSITIVE DIRECTION.

Ralph, that quote "A Woman may be likened to a sheep—even a cow or a camel—for all are ridden” was not Mohammed, it was al-Qortobi commenting on the Koran.

Considering this in blogging the koran earlier today,
"Without the care of Khadija (who remained Muhammad’s only wife until her death) and the affirmation of Waraqa, the world might never have known Islam."
Kinda ironic isn't it?

I have a more meaningful relationship with my cat than Mohammed did with any of his wives.
Isn't the inability to have real intimacy another sign of mental illness? Along with hearing voices, hallucinations, and suicidal thoughts. To say nothing of beheadings.
There are lots of people in institutions talking to angels. I bet some of them are even named Gabriel.

...after examining such hadiths, he writes, "A Woman may be likened to a sheep—even a cow or a camel—for all are ridden.”

This is why we must give muslim males a taste of their own medicine when they enter the infidel's world:

All muslim men will remain barefoot at all times while visiting the West.

All muslim males are prohibited from operating any vehicle including a bicycle. They may only used approved taxis or walk everywhere.

All muslim males will walk in the gutter, while Western men, women, children and animals will enjoy the sidewalk.

All muslim males must have an escort everywhere they go, even to the restroom.

All muslims males from Saudi Arabia Pakistan and Afghanistan will wear lipstick , a woman's wig, and last but not least a wool or down-feather burqah even in summertime in midday Arizona heat. Removal will spell immediate retribution by our "muslim male control secret police".

By the way, that wasn't a shoe thrown at Jorge Bush, VP of Mexico...it was a Koran. The man was actually saying "Hey idiot, read this!"

It's "man" (="who") not "min" (="from") you're thinking about. Do you even speak Arabic?

DenverRodeo,

Oops, you're right.

al-Qortobi: "A Woman may be likened to a sheep—even a cow or a camel—for all are ridden.”

There we go. Sorry Mo, gotta give credit where it's due.

Thanks, Denver.

Ed, that's an awesome idea. They should also be forbidden from marrying non-Muslim women. They should have to keep their gaze lowered (presumably, since they will be in burqas). They should only be allowed to talk when we say so, or else they get beaten, same deal with laughter. They should only be allowed outside when we say so. They should all be forced to be dependent on some woman (good luck, muchachos) for money or pay a heavy "protection" tax. If they misbehave we should be able to banish them to their rooms without dinner. Of course, all genitalia should be removed except for the useless base of the penis. They should also be told that they are dirty and diseased one week out of the month and not touched. And we should send them to special, segregated schools and then blow up the schools. If we see a Koran, punish the community. If they try to eat halal anything, group punishment (like they would if dhimmis drank alchohol).

Scrap the feathers. They should be polyester burqas. If we see them uncovered in the street or if they make noise when they walk, acid attack.

A girl can dream, can't she?

Reading about the condition of women in Islam, science-fiction fans among JW's readership will immediately think of the alien race of Kzin in Larry Niven's "Known Space" stories. Millenia of selective breeding, plus some genetic engineering, resulted in Kzin females lacking speech and having very limited intelligence, being good only for breeding and caring for infants.

Seeing the enthusiasm that many Islamic women have for their "religion", I think it's clear that the Moslem men have made a good start along the same road taken by the Kzin. 1400 years so far of breeding only with the submissive dummies, and killing those who show any independence or intelligence.

Check this out too:

YUSUFALI Q3:14: Fair in the eyes of men (Allah said mankind) is the love of things they covet: Women and sons; Heaped-up hoards of gold and silver; horses branded (for blood and excellence); and (wealth of) cattle and well-tilled land. Such are the possessions of this world's life; but in nearness to Allah is the best of the goals.

Allah clearly does not consider women to be part of humankind.

It wasn't so long ago that women and children were legally considered chattel in our countries, too.

Our not-too-distant ancestors had to fight a long, hard battle to win rights for women and children. They won that fight and paid the price; we don't want their sacrifices to be for naught and we don't want to lose those hard-won rights because of some ancient prejudices cloaked in religious garb.

That's why anyone who cares about women's and children's rights should be vigilant about them and not so quick to praise Islam or excuse Muslims. (Ms. Magazine and Oprah, I'm looking at you.)

It isn't surprising that Mohammed was a sexist pig. I just don't know why anyone, especially women raised in our modern society, would consider him to be, as Hugh Fitzgerald writes, the "Model of Conduct (uswa hasana) for all time, the Perfect Man (al-insan al-kamil)".

How thoroughly brainwashed, backwards or stupid do they have to be to think he set a good example and that God commands us to imitate him?

The fact that there are Muslims, right now in 2008, seriously asking how slaves should be treated according to Islam, baffles me.

homo oeconomicus wrote:

"It's "man" (="who") not "min" (="from") you're thinking about. Do you even speak Arabic?"

Have you ever made a typo? I think Raymond could have made one there. I suggest you contact him by emailing Jihadwatch (see left side of the blog).

Anyways, the point about "ma" stands. What do you think of "Allah's" use of "ma" in 4:3, 4:24, 23:6, and 70:30?

Kinana,

Thanks for your heroic defense; I just saw all this now. Transliteration is always a subjective matter. At any rate, native Arabic speakers, particularly of the Egyptian variety -- such as myself -- hardly pronounce "who" as "man" (the classical way) but rather "min" (colloquially). So, I fear I transliterated it according to 'ammi usage.

Homo,

I hope I transliterated 'ammi properly...

Raymond Ibrahim

It is no wonder while ilamic states are decayed and failed when more than half their population are treated less than human. And you still get these idoit western women who when take on being a muslim insists they have rights. it must be a defective gene that allows oneself to become a slave.

Josephine

Our not-too-distant ancestors had to fight a long, hard battle to win rights for women and children. They won that fight and paid the price; we don't want their sacrifices to be for naught and we don't want to lose those hard-won rights because of some ancient prejudices cloaked in religious garb.

That's why anyone who cares about women's and children's rights should be vigilant about them and not so quick to praise Islam or excuse Muslims. (Ms. Magazine and Oprah, I'm looking at you.)

A friend's daughter mentioned that her Middle Eastern Studies professor, a female "revert", praised Islam by noting that it improved women's lives compared the pre-Islamic culture of the area. My reaction was, of course, "So, what? That was 1400 years ago." Then I lent her a copy of Reliance of the Traveller, so she could see for herself, in fine detail, what a monumental lack of progress Islamic culture has made since.

By the good professor's logic, we should pine for the good old Iron Age, since it represented an improvement in the strength and durability of tools and weapons we could manufacture. Come to think of it, there is a certain element of that wish in the far Left's anti-modernity movement, and their new religion of global warming.

Time to read Atlas Shrugs, and sharpen the spears.

Lovely verse, Jewdog -- thanks. It's good to laugh out loud these days...

I can't speak for other ancient societies, but polygamy, pedophilia, and incest were never sanctioned in Ancient Rome. Concubinage and domestic violence hadn't been legal for 600 years prior the advent of Islam, although domestic violence was nonetheless pretty common. Judaic custom prohibited all of the above (Hagar was a cautionary tale about concubinage, and Jacob about polygamy). There is no slavery in Judaism or Christianity. Women had not only more rights, but more dignity in Western society centuries before Islam. They were certainly not subjected to honor killing for refusing marriage, let alone for refusing to be some cousin's fourth wife.

The verses about Muhammad's female slaves/right hand possessions also use "ma." 33:50 uses "wama," apparently with the "-ma" part translated literally by Arberry as "what," and 33:52 uses "ma" (which Arberry and Shakir render as "what"). 33:55, in mentioning Muhammad's wives slaves, also uses "ma."

16:71, which mentions slaves, uses "ma."

Polygamy and concubinage are the primary force driving Islamic religious, linguistic and cultural expansion. Islam has needed the degradation of women for its very existence through the centuries. That is why misogyny is so entrenched in Muslim cultures.

"ma, on the other hand, refers only to things or animals—trees, rocks, dogs and cats—very much similar to the English “it.”

Lines said by psychopath Buffalo Bill in "The Silence of the Lambs", such as "it rubs the lotion on the skin" and "it puts the lotion in the basket", used when he talked to one of the girls he threw into a pit in his basement, could have made one assume that he was a devout muslim talking to her as a muslim male is required to by Mein Qurampf.

On the other hand, his love for his dog Precious made it impossible for him to be a true slave of allah.

Islam = Mirror world

After having some exchanges with a certain Muslim on this board, I have come to the conclusion that the world of Islam is the opposite of the real world.

In Islam, it seems words mean the opposite of the normal meaning:

In Islam:

Peace means violence

Honor means murder

Slay means befriend

Eliminate means propogate (as in "Islam eliminated slavery")

No wonder people get kinda messed up when the become Muslims; because you have to think exactly opposite to the normal way of doing things.

The status of a concubine presents another problem for Islam: Islam's only connection to Abraham is through Hagar, the Egyptian concubine, who bore Ishmael. S.O.B.? Maybe this will help Muslims abandon their false claim to be an "Abrahamic faith."

Good points, RalphInfidel.

Mo Foe

at various times here on the comments floor in the past, people have discussed the need for an 'Islamic Dictionary for Infidels', which would provide the means for decoding Islamspeak, that species of corruption of language which preceded Orwell's newspeak by over a thousand years.

The other day, at Frontpage, there was a handy little article that might be regarded as the nucleus of such a dictionary:

Here it is: Henry Kadoch's 'Islam-Speak', with many helpful and illuminating definitions of those words that mean one thing to Muslims and quite another thing to non-Muslims.

http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=CB861004-4459-4E25-932B-6029CBC8BA9D

You've just got ll kinds of cool stuff for us tonight, DDA! Thank you. I've thought that we should have a Muslim-English section in Wikiislam for terms like these. We should put it together,

Slave girls in Islam are risk hedge or insurance in case the dead Muslims find Devil and fire in Hell. They do not trust Mohhamed's biggest lie - 72 hookers for every terrorist who follows the world's worst terrorist path, Mohhamed.