One can only assume that drunken texting is also legit. "Talaq uttered in drunken state valid: Darul Uloom," by Pervez Iqbal Siddiqui for the Times of India, January 7:
LUCKNOW: Typing the word ‘talaq’ on an SMS which may not be “sent” or uttering the words ‘talaq’ thrice even under influence of alcohol or in a fit of rage amounts to separation under the sharia.
Darul Uloom-Deoband recently issued a fatwa on three issues contrary to the common belief that the state of intoxication or anger or not communicating the decision of ‘talaq’ to the partner did not amount to divorce in Islam.
In a recent query from Bangladesh (dated December 28, 2008) it was asked: A person intending to give his wife one talaq, typed “I give one talaq to you.” in his cellphone SMS. But after thinking over, he changes his mind and does not send the SMS at all. Will this result in talaq?
According to the Dar-ul-Ifta, in the above condition, one Talaq will be deemed to have occurred, whether the SMS was sent or not.
In Fiqh term, SMS is a text which, if written by husband with the intention of Talaq, will be valid. In another question (dated January 3, 2009) a man asked Dar-Ul-Ifta that he said the word ‘talaq’ three times in anger during a fight with his wife though it was not his intention to give his wife talaq.
“A week after the incident we came to know that she was pregnant, we want to live together” the question asked. In its response, Dar-ul-Ifta ruled: “That since the divorce came in clear words thrice, the element of intention looses [sic] its legitimacy.” Another question is, if a husband is completely drunken and unconscious and beat his wife and he says talaq three times, will the marriage end? According to Dar-Ul-Ifta, talaq given after drinking in state of intoxication is valid in Hanafi sect. “Now, the husband can not marry her without Sharai halalah,” Dar-Ul-Ifta ruled.
As per the Sharia, according to Islamic scholars, Talaq should be given once at a time after a period of 30 days each.
This wipes off all possibilities of taking the drastic step in a fit of rage or under the influence of alcohol.
What about a habitual drinker, or one who just happened to hit the sauce before uttering talaq No. 3?
If a person changes his mind after uttering the word ‘talaq’ once or twice, he can always take his words back within the next 40 days (the Iddat period) of the last utterance and the marriage will stand intact.
Get on your plonk, SMS your wife and a divorce thrown in whilst you nurse your sorrows. Now that's paradise!
Just kidding.
Um... Erm...
Does the wife get to say talaq three times and be done with the beasty husband too? Now there would be a precedent!
Someone may be inspired to write The Talaq Song, with that haunting clickety-clack refrain "Talaq, Talaq, Talaq." It could be the Official Song of the International Trial Lawyers (Family Law Division) Association.
Talaq, Talaq, Talaq, Baby.
Arabic, that language which recently has provided English speakers tellingly with such words as "Jihad" and "dhimmi" and "Jizyah" and "Dar al-Islam" and "Dar al-Harb," now offers us one more -- "talaq."
Hang on; how can divorcing while drunk be valid if alcohol is totally haram?
That's a logical conundrum that has to be addressed.
An unsent message is also valid? Sounds like the unspoken word constitutes speech.
xavier
Hang on; how can divorcing while drunk be valid if alcohol is totally haram?
That's a logical conundrum that has to be addressed.
An unsent message is also valid? Sounds like the unspoken word constitutes speech.
xavier
Just one comment about "talaq, talaq, talaq."
"Stupid, Stupid, Stupid."
.
How about an untyped text message? Would that also qualify?
Under this standard, every Muslimah can and should be snatched from her husband, and given to an Infidel, after converting her. After all, even if he didn't intend to divorce her, he might have, and had he done so, she'd be fair game. Oh, the ramifications! ;-)
Ok, but this guy is a Deobandist - and his fatwa carries virtually no weight. So if cherry-picking your idea of Islam can be done to discredit it, why not have a Non-Jihad Watch, where you can cherry pick all the fatwas that do it credit?
I mean a Deobandist for X-ts sake!?
"Sharia halalah" or whatever the gutteral baby babble of Arabic means that the wife has to be successfully sexually penetrated by another man before she can reunite with her original own -- /cough husband, yes?
lorfalcon -- no, the pleasure of dismissing a lifetime companion with three now drunken words remains totally with the Muslim male, not the female.
And Xavier -- yes, in the Muslim Wonderland, silence can mean speech. A virgin can "consent" to a marriage by remaining silent, probably while viewing her father's fist or sharpened goat-killing knife inches from her face.
SkepticOverAll -- I recognize your professed attitude. This attitude is the preferred fallback of every minimally skilled Muslim taqqiya artist -- that whatever scholar is mentioned has no real "power" or "authority." The problem is that there supposedly is no power or authority anywhere in Islamiland-- except for the real-life power and authority that leads to death threats, riots, arson, and murder.
Somebody's doing it, whipping these folks up into crashing cars into airports and synagogues and shooting kids in malls and using children as shields. Who is it, Skeptic? Aliens? Colonialists? Jews? Personally, I vote for imams, shiekhs, Al-Azhar, and finally the miserable example of Mohammed inscribed in the hate manual called the Koran.
And finally: you can't criticize people for cherry picking when they're picking from a cherry tree. Islam is as Islam is, and Islam is as Islam does.
Stupidity at its finest.
I wonder when people will start abolishing the Mo-cult in droves?
Sung to the tune of Music, Music, Music by Teresa Brewer, two parts: one male and one female singer:
Talaq, Talaq, Talaq
[wife]
Put another punch right in,
I will promise not to sin,
I only wish to obey you, don't
Talaq, Talaq, Talaq
[wife]
I'd do anything for you
Anything you want me to
Only good for serving you, don't
Talaq, Talaq, Talaq
[husband]
Go now, ex-wife just go now,
The best part of getting hitched,
is getting rid of wives who bitch
[husband]
I am really bored of you
Wives I'm thinking more than two,
I don't want to support you, so
Talaq, Talaq, Talaq
[husband]
I can't help you didn't see,
The SMS I sent to me,
One month ago during TV, saying
Talaq, Talaq, Talaq
[wife]
Closer, my dear come closer,
Where oh where can I now go,
No friends you've ever let me know
[wife]
Put another punch right in,
Another wife won't be a sin,
I am humbly begging you, don't
Talaq, Talaq, Talaq
Thanks, Gharkad. Now I understand why stupid Islamic divorce rules are not only obviously wrong, but downright evil: It keeps women under the thumb, big way.
Posted by: xavier at January 7, 2009 1:50 AM
I concur. A Muslim under the influence of alcohol? OK, so the divorce is valid, but when do the punitive lashings begin?
Surely these people have more important issues to debate? Like whether or not toilet paper is halal or haram? Or, must a goat, sheep or camel consent to sex?
Morons.
Wait ~ there'll be an Islamic woman spokeswoman out to tell us how FREE Muslim women are ~ again !!
I can remember before all this Islamic thing blew up - the phrase I divorce you, I divorce you, I divorce you ~ was a joke!
And so was trading women in marriage for a camel or other farm animal.
But what's so crazy about this whole text message divorce - is how they try to explain it using Islamic law.
If I were the Muslimah married to such prize husband material, I'd claim he ended the marriage, too. Not sure how he's say talaq while unconscious, but I'm not one to quibble in such circumstances.
But it brings up an interesting issue for the husband. If I were the Muslim man, I don't know that I'd believe a wife who claimed I'd divorced her during a drunken stupor. Seems like this ruling is just ripe for "abuse" by disobedient Muslimahs trying to get out of their marriages to husbands who get drunk and beat them. How does the poor man know for certain he actually said talaq three times (and that the hussy isn't lying about it just to get away from him) if he was too drunk to remember???
Somehow that's gotten "Ice, Ice, Baby" stuck in my head.
Wife: What's that word you have to say to divorce me, dear?
Husband: Talaq.
Wife: What did you say, dear?
Husband: I said 'Talaq'!
Wife: Sorry, dear, what was that?
Husband: TALAQ!
Wife: (Says nothing, because she's too busy packing, with a big smile on her face).
---
I suppose, though that the word of the wife isn't enough. She will need several male witnesses, just as in the rape cases.
"Wife: What's that word you have to say to divorce me, dear?
Husband: Talaq.
Wife: What did you say, dear?
Husband: I said 'Talaq'!
Wife: Sorry, dear, what was that?
Husband: TALAQ!
Wife: (Says nothing, because she's too busy packing, with a big smile on her face)."
LOL...OH Aardvark! You had me rolling on the floor with that one! BECAUSE that is exactly what I tried to get my now ex-husband to do in Alexandria 12 years ago! He mentioned that he could divorce me by saying a word three times. I asked "what word?" He said "Talaq." I looked at him dumbfounded, "Huh? What was that?" He said it again. And THEN acting confused, I said, "How do you pronounce it?"
The brute got as far as:"Tal-" and STOPPED himself.
Can't blame a smart girl for trying can you? Still laughing... And happily free too!!!
Mohammadan logic in how they come to their legal (Shariah) rulings, amazes me in a humorous kind of way...But of course it's not funny to the recipients...
Not sure how he's say talaq while unconscious
There's the alcohol-induced state of unsconscioness where one is not aware of one's actions. But I think it might be difficult to get him to do what you'd want in that state.
Much easier to go next morning, when he's half-dying from hangovers, and pretend he said it.
How would be disprove it?
Lorfalcon wrote:
Can't blame a smart girl for trying can you? Still laughing... And happily free too!!!
...............
Lorfalcon--I would love to hear more sometime about your unfortunate marriage, and how you escaped it.
I'm glad you are free. I'm sure your story would be an object lesson for others.