This is what happens when public officials ignore and deny the Islamic doctrines of jihad and Islamic supremacism. These politicians were all wrong, and what we were warning here -- that the withdrawal from Gaza would only embolden the jihadists -- was right. But it appears that in Israel, as in America, the political and media elites don't ever seem to face serious accountability for their errors of judgment and willful ignorance.
Video courtesy Carl In Jerusalem, who comments:
This appeared on Channel 10 cable television last night. It includes (with translation) of highlights of the 2004 debate on 'disengaging' from Gaza and seeing how people voted. You will note how foolish the speakers look today and how many 'right wingers' (including Netanyahu) voted in favor. I tried to convince many of you otherwise, and was slammed at Little Green Footballs [Big surprise there. -- RS] for being a 'Kahanist' because I was opposed to the 'disengagement.' Well, who was right?
You cannot bargain with the Jihad. Nobody was able to bargain with Hitler or Stalin or Mao or Saddam either.
Wonder why?
I am a proud Kahanist. How could I be anything else...?
In the very year that Israel withdrew from Gaza I just happened to have an Israeli ex-soldier in my history class (I have been fortunate to have taught several Israelis over the years and have found them a great source of information on the Middle East; they have struck me, almost without exception, as possessed of a greater maturity than most and a deep inner sadness about life which is both touching and troubling). I asked him at that time what he thought of the impending withdrawal. He told me that he supported it because it made no sense to him for three or four or five x number of soldiers to protect x number of Israelis in the Strip.
Just last month this same young man, whom I might add is quite admirable as a human being, happened to visit the college where I teach. After the ordinary greetings we extended to each other since we had not seen one another for a couple of years, I asked him if he still supported the Gaza pullout. He looked at me, paused for a second, and then said, "No, it was a mistake." I nodded affirmatively and we then went on to more cheerful topics. But his response about Gaza lingered in my mind for days.
Must read article from Ralph Peters damning the global hatred of Israel and skewering the idiocy of the Left
http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=05D224AE-FD0A-4349-893C-66DA6A036B30
Just OT:
It's scary and its kookie, the addams family...dod..dod
I should say: the mohammdan family
You remember cousin marilyn, the pretty blond, was pretty ugly by addams family standards.
just too good to be true :) The mohammdan family story. Everything is upside down...doh...doh
Thank you Robert! You've helped destroy that pernicious stereotype about Jews being more intelligent than other people.
Maybe you'll receive an award from the UNHRC, though I doubt it.
What are these politician doing? Anything short of destroying Hamas completely will be hailed as a victory by Hamas and will be used to encourage more terrorism in the future.
This victory claim would not just be a matter of bravado; the sense of victory is absolutely essential for jihadist terrorists because victory over the infidel is what Muhammad and his ridiculous Quran always promises Muslims. This Gaza war is a great opportunity to take victory away from these psychopathic dupes, which will depress their will to fight, while even a feeble claim for victory would only encourage their zeal for conquest.
War against Islamic terrorists is always and only a fight to the death.
This is part of the problem. How we've dealt with Jihad in the past has enabled these barbarians today. Right after WW1 the civilized world sure seemed to handle the Islamic caliphate in the right manner. These days we kiss Islamic rear while fighting the manifestation of Jihad.
Bad joke.
One of the aims of Jihad means the conquest of Infidel lands. Israel has to start taking lands from Arabs as compensation for attacks on it.
Whether Israel engages in Gaza, ie re-occupies it, or disengages, the Jihad will continue with vigour, as Arabs/Palis will have close access to Israelis. What I hope will happen is that Israeli policy be towards disengaging the so called Palestininians from Gaza. Palestinian Gazan Arabs should be the responnsibilty of Egypt.
All sorts of solutions have been put forward, tried and failed. Its time try something radically different.
I hate to say this politician was a fool
But man i am sorry to say this..
After all of the retoric (where arafat was saying how he was going to wipe out israel)
Unless they got more, land, money, houses etc.
Seems to remind me of the old protection racket.
So i am not really surprised when the palestinians then used that land to begin importing explosives..
Sorry but call me sceptical but i just dont believe anything the muslims say as far as
Israel, infidels or even basic freedoms..
Because so far each time the west has given into the islamists demands it seems like they just want MORE..
and we are quickly running out of stuff and money to keep giving to them..
Friends of mine have been saying this for years, but for quite a while I couldn't believe it. Now I do:
We need to get rid of the majority of our so-called 'elite'.
Here in Europe that's particular valid for the EU-philes, who don't know anything about standing up and confronting evil. Give them a nice pension somewhere. Just make sure they stay away from politics.
DP111, they can start with the Sinai. Seriously, they can just take it, legally. Egypt has violated the terms of the Camp David Accords.
You're absolutely right about making the Gazans Egypt's problem. They created Hamas with the their Ikhwan, the population is mostly Egyptian, and they owe it to Israel for Israel's continued aid to the Gazans, just for starters.
I'm with Sheik yer'mami and yourself Carl, I guess I would also be a Kahanist.
I don't believe you can appease an enemy that demands your annihilation.
To pull back from anywhere in the world and giving up territories to Islamic Terrorists only makes them feel empowered.
It was a sad mistake to support Jihadis against the USSR because this made them feel invincible and has reawaken their blood thrist to new heights.
By giving up Gaza, the Jews never got any positive publicity from it, nor were they commended for it, its not even acknowledged what Israel did to try and have Peace in the region. This is a lesson they could have learned from India in its dealing with Kashmir, where Kashmir had so many enefits at the cost of the Indian republic, and yet the Muslim popultaion was never satisffied because they have an unfinished job, complete extermination of the Hindus and Buddhists, as well as the Sikhs. Israelis and Jews need to realise that there can never be a permanent peace ever.
Let this be a lesson to all the stupid liberals, leftists and so-called socialist type; when it comes to policies and how to deal with terrorists, please leave up to people who are not suffering from a aneuploidy of some kind.
-Ayo Gorkhali
The arabs and the muslims are hundreds or thousands of years behind the civilizations like the one in Israel.
In Israel you see democracy in action - Parleman members intelligently arguing their case - Democracy at its best.
Every arab leader is their local allah with no civil parleman to discuss, present or argue any case.
Even the Romans 2,500 years ago were ahead of the arabs and the muslims of today - this is history in reverse.
First, there can be no peace unless and until both sides actually want peace.
Two, the Gazans aren't Egyptians, which is why Egypt finally got out of Gaza and why they don't want the Gazans back.
Three, Islam demands the return of ALL lands which were once held by Islam, and that includes the entire arc from India to Southern Spain.
Four, none, NOT ONE, of the liberal elites in the US or EU will every admit that Islam is not just a religion but a socio/economic/political construct whose end game is world government under Islam and sharia.
Five, if you are not willing to defend yourself, your family, and your nation, you deserve what you get.
Johndoe,
I read the Peters article. Peters has the same blind spot far too many have, and I will explain.
Is Hamas the enemy? Is Hizb'Allah the enemy? Is al-Qaeda the enemy? I vote no, they are not the enemy. They are merely the organizations, the face if you will (when not wrapped in a tablecloth to hide their identity), of the enemy. The enemy is islam. Yet Peters, from his bully pulpit, refuses to name the enemy, taking instead the safe route in condemnng Hamas. Until we are able to name the enemy, writing against Hamas, or the other alphabet soup of muslim terrorist groups, is not the answer, nor will it ever lead to a solution of the jihad now being violently preached and waged throughout the West.
As an aside, I have studied history (my major). I never thought that in my lifetime, I would be able to see live, with my own eyes, vicious Jew-hatred given a free pass around the world in the name of being anti-Israel. I always wondered how the Germans, after the disaster of the Weimar years, could so easily and supinely vote in a Hitler, when his words were published for all to read and understand. I have never understood how such rabid Jew-hatred could take hold from the top down (or bottom up, pick yer poison). Now with these 'protests', I am seeing History repeat itself, with the full consent of the governing and media classes; the news blackouts on these violent 'Gaza' protests, and the genocidal hatred espoused, proves the latter complicit. Robert Spencer does his bit for the anti-jihad, explaining articulately, through his books and this site, the muslim theology. But he is marginalized, an 'islamophobe'. We freedom loving people have to look to a Geert Wilders or a Filip deWinter to find politicians speaking the unvarnished truth as to who the enemy of Western freedom is, and what must be done to stop it. Yet for all their good work, they are still lonely voices crying in the wilderness; they are also scorned with the same oppobrium and epithets that a Robert Spencer is. We now have media acting in the manner of a Pravda or Völkischer Beobachter, using the same insidious language to demonize not just Jews, but the Jewish Nation, while plying us with smooth-talking lies about peaceful muslims and lies about a tiny minority of extremists. MEMRI translations of imams' vitriolic hate sermons are never broadcast, are never even mentioned. We are being led by the nose down a multi-cultural path to accepting jihad in all its most violent manifestations. And we are ridiculed for standing up to it, marginalized as 'haters'. Why? Fear? Maybe, but that does not tell the whole story. No, it is something deeper, and more troubling. It is the willing acceptance and prosecution of the Jew-hatred lies that is tearing a whole in the fabric of our social conscience. Until we have leaders being able to take a stand, that is, grow a spine, we are all in peril. No smooth-talking lies will ever cover for that. Those lies may be exposed, and I say may be, when attacks on our schools and malls and workplaces take place thanks to the complicity of so many. For if 9/11 could not wake the populace to the menace of jihad, I'm not sure at this point anything can. Because our elite cannot even be bothered to name the enemy. And I'm an islamophobe for pointing this out.
How do we take a stand? I am of the opinion that being nice to these jihadi protesters (they have a right to protest, etc.) is not the answer. Religious war is here, whether we like it or not, and in war niceness kills those being nice and tolerant. I do not want to be one of those killed for being nice. Thanks to our mendacious elite, this war will last longer, and be far uglier, that it has any reason to be. If we do not stand up now and name the enemy, when will we, if ever? After tens or hundreds of thousands are slaughtered? Is that a path we wish to take? I say, Never Again. Those are not "just words." They have meaning to me, and I believe in them with all the love I have for the words in my Constitution. They help form my soul. And I will not sell my soul short to any kow-towing jihadi-supporting elite. Rope, tree, elites: Some assembly required. Better them than me.
Why do politicians enjoy speaking on behalf of the enemy. This Israeli politician is trying to give the enemy a break.
The best way for peace with Hamas is to eliminate Hamas. Like Nazis, they must be eliminated.
I suspect Sharon knew this day would come by withdrawing from Gaza. He just left the stage too soon to finish the job himself. He was a military commander and the good ones do know the enemy.
The world was all over the narative of "occupation" to the point where it still stuck after leaving. Israel was in a losing position politically by staying.
We are all well aware of what happened in the mean time. In relation to where we are today, Hamas is Isolated and slowly being crushed. Gaza is being reduced to rubble block by block. Conditions for an end to the conflict are ones Hama will never agree to.(the end of rocket fire and surrender). Egypt is exposed with their dirty hands. Iran became really quiet all of a sudden. Europe suffers from its own foreign policy.
Israel is unlikely to stop just because Europe wants it. Europe, through its support of Palestine, is as guilty of prolonging this conflict as anyone. Israel, at this point, may just enjoy giving Europe a taste of its own medicine. It should not be lost on the Israeli's that it was Europeans who tried to exterminate them in the first place. Or, at the very least, did little in the way of stoping it.
It is sad that it took some 6000 rockets to make things happen. Regaining the moral high ground always comes with a price.
Hamas may actually continue the conflict for so long that Gaza will be completely uninhabitable. Forcing the remaining population to seek greener pastures elsewhere.
Is Hamas the enemy? Is Hizb'Allah the enemy? Is al-Qaeda the enemy? I vote no, they are not the enemy. They are merely the organizations, the face if you will (when not wrapped in a tablecloth to hide their identity), of the enemy. The enemy is islam. Yet Peters, from his bully pulpit, refuses to name the enemy.... And we are ridiculed for standing up to it, marginalized as 'haters'. Why? Fear? Maybe, but that does not tell the whole story.
Posted by: Rick
Rick, there is a much larger enemy than Islam. Why not name the enemy? Fear? Perhaps. Until we are willing to name this greater enemy and global threat, we are finished.
Wild Jew,
No offense, but I lost you. What are you saying is the much greater enemy?
You say history is your major.
Then I expect you to name this greater enemy and threat.
I will give you a hint. A statesman, lawyer, political theorist and philosopher once said (the)enemy at the gates is less formidable (than this enemy), for he is known and he carries his banners openly.
Islam carries his banners openly. There is a much greater enemy than even this.
Oh, you mean Pogo's famous line: "We have met the enemy, and they is us." Like the Roman Empire letting the barbarians in the gates because they were no longer willing to defend themselsves. Gotcha. (I hope.)
TREASON
A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly. But the traitor moves among those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the galleys, heard in the very hall of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor—he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and wears their face and their garment, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation—he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city—he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared.......Cicero, 42 B.C.E.
Cicero is correct for his day, but the key thing: No longer do traiters' "sly whispers rustling through all the galleys, heard in the very hall of government itself" apply. Today, they are quite open and vocal about it; traitors in Roman times understood the implications and consequences of being a traitor. There is no such traitorous standard now.
Sly whispers could be heard on the Truman balcony after Saudi Arabia's Ambassador to the United States, Prince Bandar bin Sultan bin Abdul Aziz --"Bandar Bush" -- arrived at the White House, Thursday September 13, 2001.
Ambassador Bandar and President Bush lit up Cohiba cigars. They discussed how the U.S. and Saudi Arabia -- Al Qaeda's benefactor -- might work together in the "war on terrorism."
The Saudis bailed young George W. Bush out of a failing oil company, Harken Energy. In the nineteen nineties the Saudis worked closely with G. H. W. Bush through the Carlyle Group.
These two men apparently made possible the exodus of some 140 Saudi and the Bin Laden family members at time when the FAA forbid all domestic flights. These potential witnesses were not thoroughly interrogated by the FBI. Bush arranged this at a time when thousands of his fellow citizens lay smouldering beneath the ruins of the World Trade Center towers; atrocities in which the Saudis had a big hand.
Not only does Mr. Bush defend the enemy, he provides aid and comfort to the enemy and he lies about the enemy. What shall we call Mr. Bush if not an enemy within and a traitor?
Not only does Mr. Bush defend the enemy, he provides aid and comfort to the enemy and he lies about the enemy. What shall we call Mr. Bush if not an enemy within and a traitor? ~ Wild Jew
You've hit upon my opinion of the greatest failing of George Bush. But again, he was quite open and vocal about his calling islam 'a religion of peace'. That's our political elite for you. Uninformed about islam, and unwilling to face the reality of what exactly we face when it comes to this so-called 'religion of peace'. They buy into the taqqiya. And, yes, dupes are traitors to my Heritage just as much as the overtly active ones seeking to destoy it are.
And, yes, dupes are traitors to my Heritage just as much as the overtly active ones seeking to destoy it are.
Posted by: Rick
The difference between us Rick, I don't cut this man any slack. He is the leader of the free world and he is lying about the enemy. He is protecting the enemy; sheltering the enemy. Nor do I believe Mr. Bush is uninformed or ill informed. My late father -- when I was critical of this president's Middle East policies -- assured me Bush has some of the best minds in the world counseling him. I have no doubt that Bush knows he's been running with jihadist killers. I have no doubt Bush knows Saudi King Abduallah bin Abdul Aziz, Mahmoud Abbas, et al, are unregenerate jihadists. Bush calls these killers men of peace and vision.
I believe he is deliberately lying about our enemies out of some perverse political calculus. It's unforgivable in time of peace. It's criminal in time of war.
Netanyahu voted for disengagement from Gaza. Such is the choice the Jews in Israel face this coming February 10, 2009. The choice between open and proud supporters of the phony "peace" process and further territorial retreat, in the way of Tzipi Livni (Kadima) or for a phony "hard liner" in the way of "Bibi" Netanyahu (Likud), a man who openly boasts he is eager to resume negotiations with the jihadists; he is eager to work with Barack Obama in order to forge a lasting peace in the region.
What is a self-respecting, security-minded citizen of Israel to do? Who should he or she vote for? At this point, my recommendation would be, vote for a small, principled party that absolutely opposes territorial compromise; anyone who opposes further retreat in the face of the jihad would get my vote.
Rick: Until we have leaders being able to take a stand, that is, grow a spine, we are all in peril.
I think it's too late for these inepts to grow a spine. A spine is something unheard of in their circles.
It is not to late to vote the bums out, to put people in office who have demonstrated spine, or what I have called 'True Grit'.
If you ain't got no grit, you don't fit. You're not qualified...
Prophet Obama (PBUH) who just got to be President by coup, and judicial anarchy, ain't got no grit, but I would give him one year to prove otherwise or get out...
Prophet Obama (PBUH) who just got to be President by coup, and judicial anarchy, ain't got no grit, but I would give him one year to prove otherwise or get out...
Posted by: duh_swami
duh_swami, I did not vote for Barack Hussein Obama. I only reluctantly voted for McCain. I swore off voting for the lessor of the evils after I voted for Bush in 2000. Only Obama was such a frightening a prospect, I ended up voting for McCain.
But you know what? I fully expect a leftist (maybe a Marxist) like Mr. Obama to lie about the enemy. I did not expect a self-professed Christian conservative to lie about, give aid and comfort to the enemy.
Not only do I hold Mr. Bush responsible for these perfidious acts, I hold Republican party leaders and conservative activists responsible for not holding this Republican president accountable for these treasonous acts.
If an average man like me can learn about the enemy post 9/11, why can't Republican party leaders, conservative activist, radio talk show hosts, etc., learn about the enemy post 9/11?
And if like me, they have learned about the enemy and are silent, shame on all of them!
I still hear the "Big One" -- the one whose talent is on loan from God -- pontificating about the "war on terrorism." It's an absolute disgrace!
You remember cousin marilyn, the pretty blond, was pretty ugly by addams family standards.
Posted by: Infidel#1
Marilyn was in The Munsters, not the Addams Family. Interestingly, she was Lily's sister's daughter, and yet her last name was Munster. A hole in the plot line that didn't really matter so much.
Cousins...same last name...sounds Muslim to me!;)