Warrior for free speech
General Ahmed Shujaa Pasha's words should be sent to Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu of the Organization of the Islamic Conference, the organization that is trying to criminalize what it calls "defamation of Islam," including honest analysis of the ideology and beliefs of Islamic terrorists, at the United Nations and in the West. After all, if Mullah Omar and the Taliban should "be allowed to think and say what they please," and if their belief that "jihad is their obligation" is a matter of "freedom of opinion," isn't it likewise true that anti-jihadists should also be allowed to think and say what they please? After all, they believe that resisting jihad is their obligation. Isn't that freedom of opinion?
Pakistani Double Game Update: "Pakistan's New Intelligence Chief: 'Terror Is Our Enemy, Not India,'" by Susanne Koelbl for Spiegel, January 6 (thanks to Jeffrey Imm):
General Ahmed Shujaa Pasha has been the head of the ISI, Pakistan's notoriously independent intelligence agency, for the past three months. He makes a cosmopolitan impression and says he takes his orders from the civilian government. But how much control does Pasha have over his own organization?A new war appears to be brewing between the two nuclear powers Pakistan and India. The Pakistanis claim that Indian fighter jets are invading their air space, while normally moderate experts are going on television to demand "revenge" for "false accusations" coming from New Delhi. In Muzaffarabad, the capital of Pakistani-administered Kashmir, angry Islamists with long beards and floor-length robes are demonstrating in the streets, raising their fists against both their enemies in India and their own government, and swearing revenge for the government's banning of their Islamic charity, which is suspected of having ties to terrorism. [...]
Pasha says that he too has "questions." So far, he says, the Indians have failed to provide evidence to support their claims that Pakistani groups sponsored by the ISI were behind the Mumbai attacks. "They have given us nothing, no numbers, no connections, no names. This is regrettable." Pasha insists that he was willing to travel to New Delhi to help in the investigation. [...]
He pauses for a moment. "At first we thought there would be a military reaction. The Indians, after the attacks, were deeply offended and furious, but they are also clever," he explains. The general presses his hands together and leans forward to give emphasis to his words. "We may be crazy in Pakistan, but not completely out of our minds. We know full well that terror is our enemy, not India." [...]
In the past seven years, the Americans have given the Pakistanis about $11 billion (€8 billion) in return for their support in the war against terror.
And what do they have to show for it?
The US military depends heavily on sources provided by the ISI, which, in addition to its estimated 10,000 regular employees, maintains a vast network of spies and informants. After the new regime had come into power, everyone approved of the cosmopolitan Pasha, who recently convinced tribal elders in the Bajaur border region to organize so-called Lashkars, or armed tribal militias, against the extremists. [...]Pasha is apparently adept at overcoming old divisions. However, it is worth listening closely when the general explains why he too is unwilling to apprehend the Taliban leadership, even though many claim that Taliban leader Mullah Omar, for example, is in Quetta, a city where Pasha lived until a few years ago. "Shouldn't they be allowed to think and say what they please? They believe that jihad is their obligation. Isn't that freedom of opinion?" he asks, defending extremist rabble-rousers, who are sending more and more Koran school students to Afghanistan to fight in the war there.
Such words from Pasha arouse the old suspicion that the ISI is playing a double game....
No kidding, really?
From article: "Shouldn't they be allowed to think and say what they please? They believe that jihad is their obligation. Isn't that freedom of opinion?
No it's not, it's an obligation, and an order...Right from Allah...No opinions are allowed, just follow the orders...or else...Allah willing, and he always is...
And yet we continue to fund their jihad, and that of those invaders in the CITY of Palestine (never has been a COUNTRY except in the propaganda of jihadists worldwide). When is the West going to wake up? How many more jihad attacks is it going to take...or will the prophesy of 2012 come true due to self-fulfillment?
Oh well... If someone tried waving one of the mohammed cartoons in front of that "warrior for free speech", I'm sure he'd promptly get ready to behead the "blasphemer."
Mohammedans really, really think we're all like their fellow co-religionists when it comes to falling for BS. Just look back on Abdullah Mikail trying to get people who read Jihadwatch sold on the ludicrous idea that "islam legislated an end to slavery."
I'm surprised he didn't try to convince us that Yasser Arafat invented the space shuttle, or that ayatollah Khomeini created all modern notions of women's rights.
How would the General respond if a new Crusade were called...if it is our belief that we are to protect ourselves from their jihad, hhhmmm?
"The general presses his hands together and leans forward to give emphasis to his words. 'We may be crazy in Pakistan, but not completely out of our minds.'"
The Pakistani spy chief said it. What is he, some kind of Islamophobe?
Criminal actions and beliefs are NEVER protected by freedom of speech, nor freedom of opinion. Yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater when there is none is not protected by free speech either. Waging Islamic jihad against the world may be his obligation under Mohammet's evil moon-god Cult, but like any extremist cult it is not protected by freedom of belief. Jihad is a criminal action against all humanity, including the rabble-rousers of the Islamic Cult of Allah, particularly criminal against its children, and it should be condemned by the world community (UN and EU) and outlawed for its criminal activities. There is no legal 'protection' for criminal acts of Jihad.
"The Pakistanis claim that Indian fighter jets are invading their air space, while normally moderate experts are going on television to demand "revenge" for "false accusations" coming from New Delhi."
-- from the article above
Yes, "normally moderate" experts are "going on television to demand 'revenge' for 'false accusations' coming from New Delhi." How quickly those "normally moderate" Muslims -- in Pakistan or any of the Arab countries, or in London, Paris, Dearborn, and Falls Church, become suddenly...quite immoderate.
Is it possible that the word "moderate" should be held up, constantly, for vigilant examination? You might start with “Ten Things To Think When Thinking Of Muslim ;Moderates’”:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004034.php
"more than $11 billion"
-- from the article above
No, according to the calculations of Selig Harrison, for years one of the closest students of Pakistan (and a great supporter of independnece for Baluchistan, as one should be --for moral, or for geopolitical reasons, or for both) the real cost of all aid to Pakistan should include that hidden in the military budget, and not identified as such, and also include debt forgiveness, the real amount of aid to Pakistan is far higher. In early 2006 Selig Harrison concluded that the total came to $27.5 billion, and assuming only the most modest sums since, it would certainly by now top $30 billion.
That's a lot to waste, on a meretricious Muslim land. Had the money simply been handed over to the Indian - or the Israeli -- military, with a little left over, say a billion or so, for counter-Da'wa efforts in the United States and in the imperilled historic West, the countries of Western Europe - we might actually have accomplished something, in the permanent war of self-defense, by Infidels everywhere, against those pursuing, by all means possible, the Jihad to remove all obstacles to the spread, and then the dominance, of Islam.
To govern is to choose. And to give aid is to choose. Infidels already are transferring hundreds of billions every year to Arab and other Muslim oil-producing countries. Let them take care of their fellow Muslim, but oil-less peoples. The Infidels have given and given and given, and what's more, we have dangerously established exactly the wrong relationship, that of classic givers of Jizyah, who give because they are afraid to stop giving, and whose money is received, by whatever Muslim recipients for that aid exist -- and the list keeps expanding -- as if by right, with no gratitude, but with fury should it even be hinted that such aid might be diminished, or ended altogether.
Among the recipients of that aid have been Egypt, Jordan, and the permanently-on-the-dole "Palestinian" Arabs, with that wholly-Arab-controlled UNRWA, as we have recently seen, supplying not only goods and services, but propaganda as well, conducted by the non-Arab facade at the top, the outrageous John
Ging, e tutti quanti, who really ought, as they call for their own "investigations," be subject to investigations, along with the entire UNRWA staff, for their ultra-vires activities that go far beyond doling out aid, and that include, at this poiint, the aiding and abetting of terrorism.
But of all these Muslim recipiets, the largest amount of aid has gone to Pakistan, meretricious and permanently dangerous Pakistan, and that American aid made possible that little science project - or Grand Theft -- by "Dr." A. Q. Khan, and that, in turn, helped make possible, as we know now, the nuclear projects of, inter alios, North Korea and Iran.
The Americans have been played for fools, again and again, by various Muslim states. They are being played for fools now. But not everyone, in the American government, is any longer going to stand for it. More and more are beginning to see that this thing called Islam might actually need to be studied, might actually be connected to the deep beliefs, and the attitudes, and the atmospherics, of all those states and societies that are suffused with Islam.
And the more people in the Western world who inform themselves about Islam, the harder it will be for those of Yesterday's Men who are still in charge of foreign policy to be quite as heedless, even criminally negligent, as they have shown themselves to be, to date.
Everyone has freedom 'of' an opinion.
That does not mean you have freedom to 'act' on your opinion.
What is more disgusting is that I am sure he just cashed his check from the American Goverment, supplied his troops from money from the American Goverment, and just dropped off family members to their jobs at American factories in Pakistan making American goods.
Remember the differance between a muslim terrorist and a muslim moderate.....is.....the muslim moderate is currently out of ammunition.
A recent article:
Fitzgerald: Pakistan, we want our money back
$30 billion in military and economic aid, and debt forgiveness, has been lavished by the American government on Pakistan, and on Bush's loyal friend Musharraf -- whom he not only could count on, but who of course would remain forever in power, since late 2001 alone.
What have we gotten for that money?
And before that, decades of non-stop aid, especially military aid -- including top-of-the-line F-16s -- have gone to Pakistan, aided by the devotion of generations of American diplomats and generals, so enamored of those ramrod-straight terry-thomas-moustachioed Pakistani generals. They regarded them as our true-blue allies not despite but because of Islam, for Islam was seen only, by the Dulles brothers and those at that uncomprehending level, as a "bulwark against Communism," comparing so favorably with those Indians, seen as oily, untrustworthy and marxisants -- that America-bashing Krishna Menon with his New Left Book Club subscription, that supercilious Jawaharlal Nehru with his Fabianism presumably intact. Why else would he have allowed the Soviets to build a steel mill for the Indians, were he not untrustworthy?
What did we get for all that military aid, all those advanced planes, that we delivered to those Pakistani generals who have been impressing members of the American government and its military for the past fifty years, ever since the days when the military alliance of CENTO (Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, the U.S., Great Britain) seemed to be just the ticket.
Not much has changed.
It has taken America and the world a long time to figure out that the Pakistanis -- all of them, even the least Muslim and seemingly the most Western of them – are not trustworthy friends. See, for example, the late Pinky Bhutto, whose happiest days were spent walking from Briggs Hall to Nini's Corner to buy newspapers and magazines, unaccompanied by bodyguards, but who can be seen on YouTube ranting hysterically as she calls for Jihad against Hindus in Kashmir. It has taken a long time, and a lot of money, for Americans, and still today only a few do see it.
If the government of Pakistan today dares to criticize the Americans for taking the most minimal measures to stop the Taliban (and Al Qaeda) from wreaking havoc in Afghanistan, the same Pakistani government that continues to protect, continues to make unavailable to American interrogators the sinister I.S.I. man, A. Q. Khan, and if the Pakistanis continue to stand in the way, then let's simply cut the whole country off. We should not only cut off all aid, but also cut off Pakistan’s ability to export goods to America and the rest of the West. And in tandem with Great Britain, we should end all ties to Pakistan, and end all immigration -- including that phony "family reunion" business -- from Pakistan. And at the same time we should make it a point to investigate the tax-paying practices of Pakistani-owned "convenience stores." Oh, and we should check to see how many are here illegally -- a recent New Yorker article on shoplifting rings mentions that one of the most successful of such gangs consisted of "thirty Pakistanis, most of them illegal immigrants, some of them the owners of convenience stores." We should also check out the rug stores -- how many of those Pakistani rug dealers sell rugs made by child labor, Christian-child labor, in Pakistan?
At the same time, we should systematically put pressure on, investigate, and find out all the ways that Pakistani immigrants have fiddled the system, both here and in Great Britain. It wouldn't be hard to use the tax laws, and other laws, to reduce to manageable proportions the threat some pose, and to change the behavior, if not the real attitudes, of others, as they begin to realize that they are not home free, as too many Muslims appear to believe. Too many Muslims appear to think that they can continue to press and make demands when they are vulnerable to such investigations of their commercial and tax-paying practices.
Oh, one more thing.
We want that thirty billion dollars we have in the last seven years lavished on a mendacious and largely unhelpful Pakistan back. We want it now.
[Posted by Hugh at September 5, 2008]
Hitler also felt 'obligated' to enslave the Slavs and exterminate world Jewry. We should have recognized his 'rights' also, ya think?
We have to remember that the folks in Pakistan don't have freedom of speech - they don't know what it is. They don't understand that you can say anything as long as you don't threaten anyone.
If these clowns were simply talking about inner spiritual struggle, they'd have a point. But no one believes that is what is meant by jihad here.
"Shouldn't they be allowed to think and say what they please? They believe that jihad is their obligation. Isn't that freedom of opinion?"
Well, there it is, stated as plainly as I've seen it in Islamochomskian Leftist psychobabble.
General Ahmed Shujaa, have you ever heard the expression "freedom isn't free"? Protecting these nutjob's "freedom" to kill us is the best to find out why that saying was coined.
"We may be crazy in Pakistan, but not completely out of our minds…"
No? Sounds to me like you're totally ape-shit, bat-crap, nuts.
"…We know full well that terror is our enemy, not India."
You and your merry band of numbnuts don't have a clue what terror is.
Hugh
Please tell me that independence for Baluchistan is the only thing worthy of support, and should not translate into, say, independence for Sind. While the former could rattle Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran, the latter would just be one more Islamic neighbor for India. They may start well, as Bangladesh did in 1971, but quickly transform into an enemy and gang up with Pakistan/Panjab against India.
"Please tell me that independence for Baluchistan is the only thing worthy of support, and should not translate into, say, independence for Sind."
-- from a posting above by "Infidel Pride"
Yes, I am happy to tell you that. Though I wouldn't mind seeing incessant internecine warfare within Pakistan (think of the war of West Pakistan against East Pakistan that ended in 1971). That independent Baluchistan, I should add, should ideally include that part of Iran where the Baluchis live, too.
Pakistan definitely doesn't like certain kinds of free speech! Today, the Prime Minister fired his National Security Advisor for admitting on TV that surviving terrorist gunman Qasab was indeed a Pakistani:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123143217528664691.html
Here we have back-to-back examples of contradictory hypocritical stances on speech in Pakistan. When it comes to taqqiya or hate-mongering against infidels, this gets defended as free speech. But when the National Security Advisor to the Prime Minister admits that the terrorists came from Pakistan, then he gets sacked because that kind of free speech is not allowed!
What a scam!
David McCutchion (1930-1972) scholar and Indophile:
"Fanaticism plus Machiavellianism plus brutality equals Islamic Pakistan.”
Q. E. D.
alaskan wrote;
"Remember the differance between a muslim terrorist and a muslim moderate.....is.....the muslim moderate is currently out of ammunition."
slight edit, the muslim moderate is TEMPORARILY out of ammunition.
;o)
Lets hope that the Pakistani military does not act against Taliban. Maulana Fazlullah, the radio mullah, and Baitullah Mehsud have taken control of the entire rural NFWP. Peshawar may fall soon. The UN will then declare entire NFWP ungovernable, just like the Somali waters. That would be the first step towards Pakhtunistan, and in time Pakhtunistan will become a protectorate of NATO controlled Afghanistan. Three decades ago, Pakistan made a deal with the devil and now the devil's child Taliban is asking for Pakistan's soul.
Bramdag Bugti may have to fill the extra large shoes of Akbar Ali Bugti, who was murdered by Musharraf. Lets hope for the best for Baluchi people.
gymgal...LOVE your comment...and so true!
the differance between a muslim terrorist and a muslim moderate.....is.....a Motoon!!!
Bramdag Bugti may have to fill the extra large shoes of Akbar Ali Bugti, who was murdered by Musharraf. - Naresh
It goes with the song: "These shoes are made for throwing, and that's just what they'll... One of these days these shoes will-be thrown all over you!... dumb dumb dumb..."
I wonder if they'd play this on Paki Motoons radio? Not even for their freedom of speech?
Ahmed Shujaa Pasha is being a smart ass. I wonder how he managed to become a general. Most generals are smart enough to avoid making such stupid, blatantly disingenuous statements.