M. Cherif Bassiouni, Distinguished Research Professor of Law Emeritus and President Emeritus, International Human Rights Law Institute, DePaul University, is not as bad as some. He does, after all, acknowledge that for more than a millennium, the four schools of Sunni jurisprudence have recognized that death is a suitable punishment for apostasy -- from Islam, bien entendu, the Only True Religion.
Apostates from other faiths, to Islam, have been encouraged, not least by the constant threat of death. See K. S. Lal, among other historians, for what happened to tens of millions of Hindus under Muslim rule. Apostates from other faiths have also been encouraged by the threat of force, or the fate of being forced to endure conditions of life that, over time, many Christians and Jews and -- as honorary members of the Ahl al-Kitab -- Zoroastrians, escaped in the only way they could, by converting to Islam. Why, M. Cherif Bassiouni, presumably of Moroccan (Berber) descent, should perhaps begin to ponder -- why not? -- about the conditions that caused Berbers to become Islamized (and a great many to be arabized as well, forcibly or otherwise) in what had been a Christianized North Africa. Monica, the mother of St. Augustine, he of Hippo, was a Berber. This took place after the Arabs invaded, bringing or rather imposing “the gift of Islam” (as Azar Nafisi ironically puts it in some of her public readings and talks).
But M. Cherif Bassiouni, Distinguished Research Professor of Law Emeritus and President Emeritus, International Human Rights Law Institute, DePaul University, is illogical in pretending that his own personal opposition to death for apostates from Islam somehow modifies or weakens the fact that Islam itself teaches and inculcates (for the teaching is not so much teaching as repeated, and quite effective, brainwashing, from cradle to grave) the notion that those who leave Islam, and especially those who do not leave quietly but openly give voice to their apostasy, are to be treated as traitors, as defectors from the Army of Islam.
He knows this, and he even states this, more or less. But then he becomes furious, with ill-concealed hysteria, when he is asked to forthrightly admit this, and to stop hinting, or promising, that somehow his view, a view no doubt shared by some others -- especially those keenly aware of how non-Muslims are now finding out about Islam, reading about it, going to Islamic websites, reading the works of such articulate apostates as Ibn Warraq, Ali Sina, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and the book that is about to be published by Wafa Sultan. They are also consulting not the works of the apologists, either the venal espositos or the ignorantly tendentious armstrongs, but rather the works of Snouck Hurgronje, and Henri Lammens, and Joseph Schacht, and Arthur Jeffrey, and Georges Vajda, and St. Clair Tisdall, and Samuel Zwemer and others, of whom M. Cherif Bassiouni is surely aware -- or is he?
Even in the ranks of MESA (see MESA Nostra) there are those who are unhappy with its takeover by Muslim and non-Muslim apologists for Islam. Not everyone born into Islam and living in the free West is going to avoid taking advantage of that mental freedom. M. Cherif Bassiouni might be quite surprised to learn about those who, while not openly declaring their apostasy from Islam (they aren’t that brave), are doing what they can to enlighten the naïve non-Muslims about the reality of Islam. And there are more such people around than he thinks, perhaps in places he hardly suspects. Not everyone, for example, is taken in by the hollow credentialism of M. Cherif Bassiouni’s own absurd c.v., nor with his ostentatious “friendliness” to students -- those freshly-baked cookies for example, that some young visitors are so enchanted with -- which is no substitute for the higher pedagogic responsibility of a teacher, which is to tell the truth about the subject he purports to be expert on, and not to be an apologist. This difference escapes the m.-cherif-bassiounis of this world.
One finds, unsurprisingly, most of the usual clichés of Interfaith-Racketeering (Muslim-Christian and Muslim-Jewish Divisions) in M. Cherif Bassiouni’s response. For example, his passing allusion to “the three abrahamic faiths” -- a phrase that tells us nothing, because of course the “Abraham” of Islam is completely different from the Abraham of Judaism and Christianity, just as the Moses of Judaism, and the Jesus of Christianity, are very different from the versions of them -- Moussa and Isa -- to be found in Islam.
M. Cherif Bassiouni, Distinguished Research Professor of Law Emeritus and President Emeritus, International Human Rights Law Institute, DePaul University, knows this perfectly well. And he knows just how deceptive that “three abrahamic faiths” business is, just as that business of all “three monotheisms” is deceptive, for it implies that there is some benign relation between Islam and the two prior-in-time monotheisms. But while Christians and Jews do, as “People of the Book,” ahl al-kitab, receive special treatment -- they are allowed to stay alive, and even, under very onerous conditions of course, to practice their religions -- rather than being subject to immediate forcible conversion, or to death (as are those who are not “People of the Book”), their lives were, and obviously are, difficult under Islam. And that is why, over the centuries, many converted to Islam -- to avoid the difficult, and sometimes horrific conditions (which could include forcible mass conversions overnight, if a Muslim ruler took it into his head to insist upon it), including permanent physical insecurity, because a Muslim could kill a non-Muslim with impunity, and because, if even one member of a dhimmi community did not fulfill his duties -- say, did not pay the Jizyah -- the entire community could be punished.
The history of the non-Muslims under Islam, the history of the Dhimmi, has begun in modern times, thanks to the pioneering and lonely works of analysis and synthesis by Bat Ye’or, who recognized that this part of the history of Islamic conquest had been ignored. See, for example, the disgraceful scanting of the dhimmi in Bernard Lewis’s “The Middle East: the Last 2000 Years,” in which, in a volume of 400 pages, the dhimmi is mentioned in exactly three (consecutive) paragraphs, two of them exculpatory, with a great deal of vagueness about exactly what was demanded of the dhimmi (Christians and Jews under Islam, from ahl al-dhimma, or “the People of the [soi-disant] Pact”).
M. Cherif Bassiouni, Distinguished Research Professor of Law Emeritus and President Emeritus, International Human Rights Law Institute, DePaul University, did not, thank god, dare to invoke Qur’an 5.32 (“He who kills an innocent man, it is as if…” etc.) as Bush used to do, and as others have done, to show that Islam is a “religion of peace.” As we all know, 5.32 is lifted from a Jewish text, but immediately after it comes, in the Qur’an, 5.33, which modifies 5.32 by providing a list of those who can (and should) be killed.
But M. Cherif Bassiouni did offer, as was predictable, Qur’an 2.256, because Muslims understand that very few non-Muslims know what the phrase actually means or, even if they don’t know what the phrase actually means, what it must necessarily mean given 1350 years of Muslim history, and the ways in which “compulsion in religion” are shown.
Here is M. Cherif Bassiouni:
The Qur’ān’s overarching principle enunciated in chapter 2 is that there can be “no compulsion in religion.”
Really? Do you think that the “overarching principle” of the Qur’an, and hence the “overarching principle,” of Islam itself, is that there should be “no compulsion in religion”? Bat Ye’or has written about the amazing disappearance of Christians, and decline of Jews, in North Africa, in the centuries after the Arab conquest, and about the steady, great, seemingly inexorable decline in both Christians and Jews in the Middle East, here: http://www.dhimmi.org/1.pdf. And you can just imagine the circumstances in which Hindus lived. Tens of millions were killed by the Muslims, not all at once but steadily, until such time as their Muslim masters decided it made more sense to keep Hindus alive and even accord them a kind of unstated “People of the Book” status, so that they could be used as jizyah-paying slaves of the Muslim state (see K. S. Lal, The Muslim State).
Of course, if you are a Muslim, you will assert that all these non-Muslims disappeared because Islam was so obviously, so self-evidently, wonderful in every respect, and there was no force, no threat of force, and the condition of the dhimmi obviously so splendid that no one needed to try to get out of it by converting to Islam. No, in the official Muslim narrative people converted to Islam because, you see, Islam was so splendid. And don’t dare to try to seek proof of its obvious splendor, its magnificent and well-run polities, its thriving economies, the harmony of Muslim and non-Muslim, the full equality granted to women. As for the latter, how many Muslim apologists, when the subject of the treatment of women is raised, suddenly, hysterically, tell you that in the seventh century Muhammad “improved the condition of women” and expect you not only to not question that assertion, but to stop discussing the treatment of women since Muhammad improved the condition of women in the seventh century. Apparently that statement is supposed to end all further discussion, with a bizarrely confident “Case Closed.”
What Sura 2.256 means, to Muslims, is that true adherence to the Faith (the Islamic Faith) must come from within, and cannot be compelled. But what can be compelled is outward and visible submission to Islam -- that is a matter for “compulsion.” There is no freedom of conscience in Islam, if by ”conscience” we mean that you, if born into Islam, have a right to leave the faith, and if, by conscience, we mean that no ill or unfair treatment is meted out to non-Muslims to such a degree that many non-Muslims would find the situation so intolerable, over time, that they would convert to Islam, even if -- because “there is no compulsion in religion” -- inwardly they might, for a generation or two, continue to adhere to their prior, perhaps still deeply felt, beliefs.
I don’t think it illegitimate at this point to end with a re-posting of a piece, “There Is No Compulsion in Religion,” that I put up at JW two years ago:
Islam is all about “compulsion” in religion, as that word is commonly understood by non-Muslims. But Muslims know that the translation into English, or French, of 2.256 will be endowed with a meaning it simply does not possess. Islamic propagandists frequently bring out the old chestnut about there being "no compulsion in religion." Another one did so here recently. Perhaps he is unaware that in the lands conquered by Muslims they offered, as Qur'an and Sunnah tell them to offer, only three possibilities to non-Muslims: death, conversion, or the status of humiliation, degradation, and physical insecurity known as that of the "dhimmi." That third option was open, of course, only if the conquered people happened to be ahl al-kitab, People of the Book, that is Christians or Jews, or came to be treated as such at some point, as happened to Zoroastrians and, after some 60-70 million of them had been killed, even the Hindus -- so as to keep the Jizyah flowing.Isn't that a form of "compulsion" in religion? If one is forced to pay a burdensome tax, forbidden from suing Muslims at law, forbidden from repairing or building new houses of worship, forbidden from marrying a Muslim woman without converting to Islam first, forbidden from all kinds of things that add up to a condition that in many cases was nearly unendurable, isn’t that compulsion in religion? Over time, those Christians, Jews, and Zoroastrians who constituted, outside of Arabia proper, the original population of the Middle East and North Africa, steadily became more and more islamized.
That certainly constitutes "compulsion in religion." And in any case, the meaning traditionally given to that over-quoted line (a favorite of apologists who assume that Infidel audiences will simply take it at face value) does not mean what it appears to say. It means merely that you cannot compel deep inner belief, but you can certainly compel outward conformity with it (i.e. outwardly showing belief in Islam, whatever one inwardly might feel).
The history of Islamic conquest shows that there has been, from Spain to the East Indies in space, and from the seventh century until now in time, a great deal of "compulsion in religion" by Muslim rulers on the non-Muslims they conquered. And there is to this day, with intolerable pressures put on the most helpless, such as the Mandeans in Iraq, or to a lesser extent, the Copts in Egypt, the Christians in Lebanon and in the "West Bank," and the Chaldeans and Assyrians of Iraq.
Of course in Islam there is "compulsion in Islam." It's all over the place, and not only in the Middle East. When Christian schoolgirls are decapitated in Indonesia, and thousands of churches burned, or Buddhist villagers decapitated all over southern Thailand, or Hindus beaten to death in Bangladesh, or attacked in Pakistan, or driven out by the hundreds of thousands from Kashmir, when if they converted to Islam they would be left alone, surely over time that has its effect. Not everyone can heroically withstand such persecution and threat of murder and actual murder.
That may be defined as "compulsion in religion."Remember the Fox journalists Centanni and Wiig, who were kidnapped and forced to convert to Islam? Their comments after they were freed were deplorable. They were full of misplaced gratitude to assorted local Arabs (i.e. "Palestinians”). Haniya and other big shots were around to greet them, to embrace them, to make sure that under no conditions would anyone think such a thing as this kidnapping and the forced conversion might have any larger significance. My god, those "Palestinians" were thinking, this could be very bad for us, what if Westerners start thinking of us as...as Muslim Arabs, disguising the Jihad against Israel as a "struggle for the legitimate rights of the 'Palestinian' people"! That would be terrible. We must do everything we can, as quickly as we can, to stop that idea.
And of course we will thoroughly condemn, with as great a mock outrage as we can muster, that forced even if ephemeral conversion. In Muslim states, without the cameras of the world press whirring, forced conversions occur all the time. Ask the Christian and animist blacks in the southern Sudan, or the Hindus of Bangladesh and Pakistan, or any number of helpless non-Muslims trapped, with no one to pay attention, deep within Muslim countries.
Wiig's wife began her little presentation with an "inshallah" -- my, how native we all go with such alacrity. How quickly the two of them seemed to forget (or at least Centanni did) what had actually happened. He expressed his firm belief that it would be a pity if other journalists were to be frightened off from covering the story -- their side of the story, in Gaza.
Disgust. One hopes they will be never again be allowed to cover any Muslim-related subject, and that the display they put on after being freed, so unnatural, so full of stockholm-syndrome syndrome (diplography sometimes comes in handy), will discredit them as well as the “Palestinians.” Along with the scandal of how so many journalists and press agencies covered the Hizballah War last year, not forgetting the fauxtographic record, one hopes that Western audiences will henceforth treat with skepticism and scorn all those who report knowing full well what would happen to them if they failed in the slightest to play ball and please to the utmost the Arab Muslim side -- the side that kidnaps, and then sometimes frees, journalists, but which also has been known on many occasions to kidnap, torture, and then end with a decapitatory flourish.
Nothing reported from an Arab or Muslim area of conflict can, given such a record, be simply received as offered. It must be analyzed and the contents weighed against other evidence that we possess.
For there is, in reality, a great deal of “compulsion in religion.”
The performance of M. Cherif Bassiouni, Distinguished Research Professor of Law Emeritus and President Emeritus, International Human Rights Law Institute, DePaul University, in his correspondence with Robert Spencer shows a great deal about one of the most outwardly “moderate” of Muslims, even one who recognizes certain unpleasant truths about Islamic doctrine as formulated and accepted for more than a thousand years, since the Gates of Ijtihad were, as he admits, slammed shut with a bang.
Now perhaps he, along with Mustafa Akyol and other Bright Young Muslim Reformers who are very good at getting grants and fellowships and promoting themselves but who seem tongue-tied when asked to explain just how it is that whatever “reform” of Islam they are working on will be accepted by the masses -- the most primitive masses -- of Muslim Believers, will somehow manage to convince a few thousand, or a few tens of thousands, or perhaps even a million or a few million Muslims, to accept these reforms. That might be in ten or twenty years. That would still leave more than a billion Muslims still adherents of what the four schools of jurisprudence lay down. They will remain once and for all entirely unconvinced of what M. Cherif Bassiouni thinks should be official Muslim doctrine about the treatment of apostates, or renegades, from Islam.
Those Muslims, some of them perhaps attaining to the condition of “cultural Muslims” or “Muslims-for-identification-purposes-only” Muslims, may not bravely become apostates. Most will instead prefer to remain Muslim, no doubt, perhaps out of residual filial piety (even Magdi Allam recalled, with great feeling, his quietly humble Muslim parents), or out of civilisational embarrassment (this may be less likely if you are a non-Arab, and have some other pre-Islamic identity to cling to, or to resurrect, as do Iranians), or out of fear of ostracism from their families and societies, or out of fear of physical harm, even of death. They will insist on remaining Muslims even if they have come dimly or clearly to recognize -- but will never fully admit to non-Muslims -- many of the things that are wrong with Islam. They may even have concluded, not without some inward melancholy and regret, that Islam does indeed stunt moral and mental growth. And how sad for them, if they also come to recognize, and be envious of, the easy mental freedoms of the West, and think -- surely the thought must come to some -- that had they themselves not been born into Islam and felt “compelled” to stay with it, they might have done far more with whatever native abilities they possessed.
So here is M. Cherif Bassiouni, Distinguished Research Professor of Law Emeritus and President Emeritus, International Human Rights Law Institute, DePaul University, rich in (resume-listed) honors, the beneficiary long ago of so many Western gifts. In the first place, he was given the gift of the beautiful and expressive French language, his portal, his gate, his bab of all babs, to the wider world. And then, enduring an unimaginable (imaginable!) Cairo law school, the real thing, a legal education in Europe. And then decades of being coccolato by the Western world, churning out compendia of cases. Those compendia, or those books full of reprinted documents, are given the title of “books.” And with their titles swelling a resume like nobody’s business, M. Cherif Bassiouni becomes known as the “scholar” to call on, a kind of Arab or Muslim attendant lord, to swell a progress, or start a scene or two, if you want that scene or two to express that Diversity, the Idol of the Age, that so many find so de rigueur these days, in everything from nursery schools to law faculties.
Affirmative Action, and quotas, take many forms, even avant la lettre, and -- judging by the powers of logic, capacity to assemble evidence, and ability to adhere to something like the truth in his telling contretemps with Robert Spencer -- one may be justified in suspecting that M. Cherif Bassiouni, despite those freshly-baked cookies he makes for student visitors, may well have been, these many years, such a beneficiary. But you can read what he has written, or in many cases, “edited,” or gathered up for publication works by divers hands, and see what you think. What does he make you think of? Lauterpacht? De Visscher? Julius Stone? Paul Freund? Cardozo? Richard Baxter? Sir Wellington Koo?
The missive-missiles that fell so wanly short, in the pixilated ether, of their intended mark, these last few days have not been the first example, nor will they likely be the last, of a barrage of blague from M. Cherif Bassiouni, Distinguished Research Professor of Law Emeritus and President Emeritus, International Human Rights Law Institute, DePaul University. But he may be more careful about the selection of targets next time. And he may also be surprised, in salutary fashion, to discover just how many articles, books, and websites there are, expressing a grasp of Islam not different from that held by Robert Spencer, and other contributors, and visitors, to this website -- including, we may allow ourselves charitably to believe, not different either, were he to dare, if only inwardly, to be quite sincere with himself, M. Cherif Bassiouni.
La lutte continue.
There it is. Not in a nutshell, certainly, but certainly from top-to-bottom, front-to-back, side-to-side, through-and-through: an exposition of the fear/evasiveness of one "M. Cherif Bassiouni, Distinguished Research Professor of Law Emeritus and President Emeritus, International Human Rights Law Institute, DePaul University," each title a transparent fig leaf. Is it too crude to wonder whether such scholars have recurrent nightmares in which they discover themselves to be naked while lecturing?
somebody update his wikipedia entry
For those interested, K. S. Lal's Theory and Practice of Muslim State in India
can be read at
http://www.bharatvani.org/books/tpmsi/
M. A. Khan's Islamic Jihad, A legacy of Forced Conversion, Imperialism, and Slavery
also contains much on the bloody Islamic imperialism in India's history.
Quran 2:256 ("There shall be no compulsion in religion") is also a Meccan verse, "revealed" to Muhammed prior to his resettlement in al-Madinah. While in Mecca, Muhammed was largely unsuccessful in attracting followers. It was therefore necessary for him to adopt a relatively non-belligerent and tolerant stance toward the indigenous Christians and pagans who vastly outnumbered Muhammed and his few acolytes. Quran 2:256, and all of the other Meccan verses which in some way or other contradict the later "revelations" which came to Muhammed after his flight to al-Madinah, have been, according to mainstream Muslim tafsir (Quranic interpretation), abrogated. They are null and void. But 2:256 is somewhat exceptional, in that the presumed and rather straightforward original meaning - that, in fact, one cannot be coerced to believe in a particular faith, and forced conversions are therefore to be avoided - has been profoundly reinterpreted, so that it has not been, as other Meccan verses, jettisoned altogether by members of the ulema. The "no compulsion" verse now, courtesy of naskh and tafsir, now means what Hugh says it means.
Hugh,
Maybe you can use an editor, like after the first time you mentioned "M. Cherif Bassiouni, Distinguished Research Professor of Law Emeritus and President Emeritus, International Human Rights Law Institute, DePaul University", try just using Prof. Baassiouni
Morris Minor:
This is not evidence that Hugh needs an editor. Hugh was puncturing Bassiouni's pomposity by repeating his inflated titles.
I myself found it immensely amusing.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
Could anyone point me to the appropriate Koran verses which state that anyone who rejects even a part of Islam is apostate?
The arguments of the mohammedans and their apologists are so hollow, one can see that they have not been seriously challenged intellectually. The mohammedans are not used to this kind of challenge and their shallowness is beginning to show. It is wonderful to see empty aphorisms being ripped apart and exposed by intellectually honest scholars.
There are so many purveyors of mohammedanism myths. Some time ago I watched a BBC documentary about the beginning of the Industrial Revolution. One of the narrators was Alan MacFarlane, who I believe is an anthropologist. This is what he said: "The evidence is that the rapid spread of the faith of Islam had its roots in a genuine popular appeal, not in a desire to dominate the world. It did give great happiness and fulfillment to those that believed."
Just incredible!
[Quran 2:256 ] "has been profoundly reinterpreted, so that it has not been, as other Meccan verses, jettisoned altogether by members of the ulema..."
Actually, there remains a context in which not a single verse of the Koran has been abrogated -- and that context is taqiyya to unsuspecting Infidels. When it comes to that context, all those verses that amongst themselves, out of the earshot of Infidels, have been abrogated for the Umma, are rather subject to the opposite of abrogation -- so many plump cherries plucked out not to reject in favor of the sharper verses of the sword, but to collect in a pleasing bowl for the gullible Infidels.
Qur'an 9:73 - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end."
This Medinan verse, taken from the penultimate historical surah revealed to Muhammad certainly sounds like a divine mandate to show some compulsion in religion, contrary to the claim of the now abrogated 2:256 from Muhammad's earlier and weaker days in Mecca.
These contradictory memes from a supposedly infallible, uncorrupted book does present a logical conundrum, and the Qur'an is ripe with these dualistic themes. They are however, consistent with Muhammad's and Islam's historical evolution up until his death.
Cherif Bassiouni, internet blaguer?
wow! Another excellent essay to be saved in my Hugh file!
I also found it immensely hilarious the way Hugh kept poking his sharpened stick into this twit, this M. Cherif Bassiouni, Distinguished Research Professor of Law Emeritus and President Emeritus, International Human Rights Law Institute, DePaul University.
"What does he make you think of?"
Not what, but who? He reminds me of Major-General Stanley in Gilbert and Sullivan's "Pirates of Penzance":
"I am the very model of a modern Major-General,
I’ve information vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I know the kings of England, and I quote the fights historical
From Marathon to Waterloo, in order categorical;
I’m very well acquainted, too, with matters mathematical,
I understand equations, both the simple and quadratical,
About binomial theorem I’m teeming with a lot o’ news –
With many cheerful facts about the square of the hypotenuse."
All in response: "In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
He is the very model of a modern Major-General."
Cheers!
The old Hugh is back, freed from the shackles of IntenseDebate. Yea!
I wonder when is the last time the Professor read Ibn Arabi or any of the other scholars of "Abrogation". They all seem to have the same title "AL NASKH W AL MANSUKH" - that which abrogates and that which is abrogated. And they all agree that the "verses of the sword", surat al-Taubah 5 and 29, abrogate 124 "peaceful" earlier verses. The Professor must know this; but like other Muslim scholars living in the West he ignores it.
"The Professor must know this; but like other Muslim scholars living in the West he ignores it."
The most reasonable assumption for us to make, concerned as we should be about our own safety, is that he knows, and he is lying, and that therefore he is enabling our mortal enemy. Unfortunately, the degree of irrationality in the West is so strong, it will take at least a million of us to be mass-murdered by Muslims before we even begin to contemplate stripping Bassiouni of his pompous titles and send him packing -- whether to the Dar-al-Islam, or to some renovated FDR internment camps.
Blague -Mendacious boasting; falsehood; humbug.
I had to look it up.
MrsJ:
The Hadith are clearer on the punishment for apostasy, though I guess you know that.
The most famous:
Ibn Abbaas said : The Messenger of Allah said, “Whoever changes his (Islamic) religion, kill him.” Al-Bukhary (number 6922)
Thank you Hugh. One more essay proving the professor professes nonsense...
I don't think M. Cherif Bassiouni would like us to know what has just been happening in Egypt.
If one goes over to the New English Review blog
http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_display.cfm/blog_id/22497
one will find a link to Nonie Darwish's blog,
and the latest essay placed therein. dated 13 August 2009, and entitled "If you convert {i.e. if you leave Islam} you die".
http://nonie-darwish.blogspot.com/2009/08/if-you-convert-you-die.html
In that essay Ms Darwish draws our attention to a prominent case of apostasy - and of someone accused of apostasy and blasphemy - in Egypt, *right now*.
She tells us of a notable female Muslim intellectual, Nagla Al-Imam - a lady in her thirties, a graduate of that centre of Islamic 'learning', Al Azhar University in Cairo, Egypt - who has just...publicly declared herself an apostate, a convert to...Christianity!
And the proverbial has hit the fan.
Ms Darwish also tells us of another Egyptian Muslim intellectual Sayed Mahmoud El-Qemany - who unlike Ms Al-Imam still calls himself a Muslim - who has been branded an apostate (accused of 'infidelity') and an insulter of Mohammed (i.e. a blasphemer).
Sheikh Ali Gomaa, Grand Mufti of the Republic of Egypt in 2007, and one of the biggest names in Egyptian Islam (who was, btw, one of the 148 'scholars' who signed off on that nasty Letter from the Muslims to the Christians, 'A Common Word', about which many naive Christians became so foolishly excited) has issued...a death fatwa. As El-Qemany put it, Ali Gomaa ' issued a statement declaring my infidelity and calling for slaying me for "insulting the Prophet of Islam, the God of Islam” on July 24, 2009.'
Now: it seems to me that Ali Gomaa, Grand Mufti of Egypt, is a pretty big Name in Sunni Islam. And Ali Gomaa seems to be perfectly comfortable with decreeing that someone who is an 'apostate' and a 'blasphemer', should be ...killed out of hand.
"how many Muslim apologists, when the subject of the treatment of women is raised, suddenly, hysterically, tell you that in the seventh century Muhammad “improved the condition of women” and expect you not only to not question that assertion, but to stop discussing the treatment of women since Muhammad improved the condition of women in the seventh century."
Yes Muhammad did ameliorate somewhat the totally deplorable condition of women in the Arabian peninsula. But consider the price paid by the vastly larger number of women in the territories conquered and raided by his followers for that very slight "improvement". Millions of women over the centuries were forced into sexual slavery to service the lusts of their Arab, and later, Turk, Berber or Mogul masters. Many were confined to the harems of the elite as they were required to produce numerous little jihadists to carry out the injunctions of the prophet.
@meeker: it's not so much the punishment for apostasy, it's a quote for rejecting a part of Islam, but still calling one's self Muslim.
I need to rebut someone who proclaims that 'moderate' Muslims believe in a reformed Islam.
right on, Nakal! The Berbers have a beautiful culture that has survived the jackboots of Islamic Supremacy.