Florida: Muslim girl sits for Pledge of Allegiance. Non-Muslim girl asks her why she doesn't act proud to be an American. Guess who got suspended.

Completely off-topic (thought this would get a DA-Notice):
'Asian' Youths Riot in Luton

Bye bye Florida. Bye bye religious tolerance. Bye bye America.

Hello sharia law. Obama loves you.

Both the principal and the assistant principal of the school are the ones guilty of doing the bullying.

And Heather Lawrence has absolutely nothing to apologise for.

And it is also about standing for the Pledge. Just like standing for the national anthem. Unless one is physically handicapped or wheelchair bound, not doing so would be seen as unpatriotic.

As they say,-back in the day, if a student did not stand for the Pledge as instructed. That student would have faced disciplinarian action. Trip to principal's office. You could count on it.

But,-back then, teachers, most of them, kept a Bible on their teacher's desk. There would be "devotions" everyday. And this was in "public school". Students were eager to volunteer to read a Psalm.

But things have changed. America has gone down.

'But,-back then, teachers, most of them, kept a Bible on their teacher's desk. There would be "devotions" everyday. And this was in "public school". Students were eager to volunteer to read a Psalm.'
Posted by: Amerisrael

Not once, in my K-12 years in public school did I see a Bible, or experience "devotions." We did sing Christmas carols at Christmas-time, however.

I'm sure it's still seen as being edgy and cool not to stand for the Pledge or the National Anthem.

It really isn't, it's just direspectful.

Try doing that in one of the backward countries that enforce prayer or a certain style of dress.

If you can't find it in yourself to stand for our Pledge or Anthem then maybe you should elect to find a country where they don't play it.

Does not young Ms. Lawrence have a constitutional right to ask her Muslim co-student we she did not stand? Just as the Muslim student has the right no to stand and pledge, so Ms. Lawrence has the right to ask her why she made the choice she did. Ahmed Bedier is thug and jihad apologist and has no moral authority whatsoever.

I have mixed feelings about this incident. If the Muslim girl had been a Jehovah's Witness, then she still would not have pledged because members of Jehovah's Witness are forbidden to pledge to the flag (much less celebrate their birthdays). If indeed the Muslim student did not pledge and it was okay according to the school officials, then how would they treat an atheist student who doesn't pledge because he/she is bothered by the expression "one nation under God"?

If indeed the Muslim student did not pledge and it was okay according to the school officials, then how would they treat an atheist student who doesn't pledge because he/she is bothered by the expression "one nation under God"?

Posted by: Angela at August 31, 2009 10:21 AM

Good question, but I think that angle doesn't quite fit here. Muslims should not be offended by the "God" reference since they try to tell us infidels all the time that we all worship the same god.

America is a symbol of western culture and governance that cannot be advocated by any Muslim since is against their god's law. Ask any Muslim if they would prefer a secular western style government over Islamic law, and if they say yes, I'll show you a ex-Muslim, at least in the eyes of most of their co-religionists.

The USA is rapidly approaching a showdown point. Those of us who believe in America and it's traditional values have reached the point where we appear as intolerant or racist to a large segment of the dumbed down populace when we dare to stand up for our beliefs. The proudest national history on earth has been revised to where it's founders are nothing more than slave holding hypocrites devoid of moral standing in the eyes of modern 'enlightened' educators. Any flaw in the history of this greatest nation in world history to date is paraded out and highlighted as fatal to the 'real' morality of the left..ha ha ha. Yes any flaw in their great accomplishments of the last 80 years are ignored because after all they seek true morality in their utopian pipe dream. Never mind that those flaws seem to happen one after another so as to appear to be just one continuous stream of error to the sane. No they can't be questioned because their goal is just too big and important for our questions to get in the way........Well the time may be here for true Americans to stand and say we no longer believe your pipe dreams are valid, we will no longer tolerate your injustices, we reject your false moral high ground as being moral low ground in reality, we reject your name calling, and most of all we're proud to be Ameericans and are ready to fight for our land and our children's freedom.

The Muslim girl has constitutionally protected right to not stand during the pledge. It was settled by the Supreme Court in 1943, and again in the Southern District of Florida in 2006. She didn't have to say it, she didn't have to stand.
Would we even be having this discussion if the girl in question were 7th Day Adventist?

While Miss Lawrence was being a jerk, the school vastly over-reacted by suspending her.

Muslims deliberately call attention to themselves by dressing differently, behaving differently, and flouting their contempt for their fellow students and the country in which they live. They demand to be treated with respect when they show none. I have a feeling this muslim girl will regret what she has done, and so will her parents. Nobody can force others to like or respect arrogant, insulting muslims and the last thing anyone needs to do is treat them kindly or encourage their assaults on our way of life.

I don't know how politically correct high school students in Florida are, but I truly hope the other students completely ignore this muslim twit. I hope they don't speak to her, look at her, or even acknowledge her existence. May her remaining time in school be an ordeal of loneliness, isolation, and invisibility. Nothing disturbs muslims more than to be ridiculed or ignored. Since the kids would be disciplined for ridiculing her, they should simply behave as if she isn't there. If these people want to live in our country, they need to understand that we expect them to respect our traditions, not insult them. Why should we "tolerate" their culture if they can't do the same? Anyone who hates America should not live here and the real bullies are the muslim grievance mongers playing the perpetual victim card.

MrsJ,

Why do the UK papers, and other publications in the EU insist on calling Islamic immigrants who cause trouble “Asian?” Euroasian, maybe. So what do they call the real Asians, Orientals? (cause the only thing you call oriental is a rug) And in Luton, no big surprise there. They didn’t even have the brains to go to the BDL site to see they’d cancelled their march, and still the fascists went out, armed with fireworks to cause trouble. And still, the strongest words the police can say about the riots is, “…extremely disappointing…” but not before fist blaming the non-muslims by saying:

''Today's disorder follows weeks of engagement and public consultation by Bedfordshire Police and Luton Borough Council in response to tensions within the community after the town was identified as a potential location for a march by right-wing supporters.''

Yep, blame the actual citizens who want this crap to stop for the crap that happened. Talk about bullying (by the asian youths) and discrimination (by the police for blaming the right-wing supporters). I’m certain if the cops had just played God Save the Queen and asked all the asian youth to sing along as proud Brits, it would’ve all turned out just fine…ya right!

From non-nuts above: "Would we even be having this discussion if the girl in question were 7th Day Adventist?"....Of course we wouldn't dope. She wouldn't have been part of an organized religious group which which despises our culture and is intent on overthrowing our constitution and replacing it with shit-ria law.

"You know, I made a not-so-kind remark, and I do sincerely apologize for referring to the thing on her head because that had nothing to do with it." Heather told us, "But I told her, 'Why don't she act like she's proud to be an American?'"

Heather Lawrence was correct in what she did, and had nothing to apologize for. However, she is wrong in her believe that "the thing on [the Muslimah's] head had nothing to with it." The hijab was an outward and visible sign of an inward pledge of allegiance, a pledge of allegiance to the only object of that Muslimah's loyalty -- that is to say, Islam itself. She is dedicated, because of the texts and tenets and attitudes of Islam, which she has grown up with, in a family -- an entire country is not necessary -- suffused with those attitudes, of hostility to the legal and political institutions of an Infidel nation-state. Why would she stand during the Pledge of Allegiance? For that Muslim girl, such a pledge makes no sense -- unless of course she chooses to comply in order only to camouflage the views that Islam teaches, or because -- and that would be the ideal outcome -- while continuing perhaps to call herself a Muslim, and even wearing a hijab in order to avoid trouble with her family, she does indeed feel able to wholeheartedly participate in the Pledge of Allegiance. How many Muslims do you think fit that third description, and how many fit one of the previous two?

Kiss America goodbye... Hello Shariah Law..Hello dhimmitude...goodbye Jews....

Make way for the concentration camps..then death for doing things contrary to the wishes of Allah..then death in general to kaffirs...

Kiss America goodbye..but then again..we're all so lazy, dumb, fat, politically correct...that as long as e get our daily dose of junk food and reality television..who cares...

America had it good, and simplyk threw it away...

You should have read more, and watched tv less

Despite the open apology to the girl, who wears a hijab, the President of the Tampa/Hillsborough County Human Rights Council says Heather's actions were harmful and the school was right for taking action."But whether standing up or not, this issue's not about the pledge of allegiance or anything else." Council President Ahmed Bedier said. "This is about bullying and it's about discrimination."

Is this a government body or a religious group? And if it is just an outside group, why is it dictating policy?

Despite the open apology to the girl, who wears a hijab, the President of the Tampa/Hillsborough County Human Rights Council says Heather's actions were harmful and the school was right for taking action."But whether standing up or not, this issue's not about the pledge of allegiance or anything else." Council President Ahmed Bedier said. "This is about bullying and it's about discrimination."

Is this a government body or a religious group? And if it is just an outside group, why is it dictating policy?

It will only get worse as we let more into our country. Frankly, the Muslim girl was showing disrespect to our nation and flag and if they do not like it here then go back!! I wanted to email the school and give them a piece of my mind but I could not connect to their email on this computer. It show what happens when the weak liberals take over. I hope that girl gets a good attorney and takes that school to the cleaners.

@Kaffir_Kanuck:
Why do the UK papers, and other publications in the EU insist on calling Islamic immigrants who cause trouble “Asian?”

Too afraid? Too MC PC? Lost in dhimmitude? Government orders?

I do know it drives my Chinese-origin friend nuts.

That "thing on her head"??
It's called a slave rag.

islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.

Despite the open apology to the girl, who wears a hijab, the President of the Tampa/Hillsborough County Human Rights Council says Heather's actions were harmful and the school was right for taking action.

So Ms. Lawrence is being punished for not paying proper devotion to the gods of diversity and multiculturalism. Honestly, what business does the Orwellian-named "Human Rights Council" have in policing the behaviour of school children? If the Human Rights Tribunal, err "Council", is hard pressed for real cases of human rights abuses, I recommend they investigate the cultural genocide being perpetuated by Muslims against Christians in Egypt, Iraq, Pakistan, and Kosovo. (Oh, I forgot, Christians can only be villians and Muslims only victims, never the other way around.)

"A school staff member then reported the incident...."

probably an Obama supporter,,I bet...

Council President Ahmed Bedier said. "This is about bullying and it's about discrimination."

So the muslima has the right to discriminate by refusing to stand and show disrespect for the American flag and it's pledge while Heather Lawrence is denied equal opportunity to discriminate by questioning the muslima's discriminatory action?

Why is that considered bullying? Why is Heather's questioning this muslima worth five days suspension?
Heather did not lay a hand on the ever sensitive 'muslima' a fact which renders this suspension way out of proportion to the issue at hand.

"President of the Tampa/Hillsborough County Human Rights Council says Heather's actions were harmful and the school was right for taking action."

As for the so-called (unamed) 'president' of the Tampa/Hillsborough County Human Rights Council (nice official title for such an empty suit) should explain in greater detail how Heather's question is, harmful because as far as I'm concerned, this fool has unecessarily exacerbated the situation with such a reckless comment.

And what about the main stream media's discrimination? The suspended student's identity,"Heather Lawrence" her aspirations (JROTC)and image are openly revealed for all to recognize. Yet the msm protects the

'muslima'

"the girl, who wears a hijab"

"Heather's dad, Mark . . ."

"Bedier says the Muslim student's family contacted him "

Pathetic dhimmitude. A trait well versed in the Tampa/Hillsborough msm.

by the way...i sent a letter to the school to help them understand Islam a little better;
here is the schools email address:

shsweb@hcsb.k12.fl.us

One of the things I asked was did they ask the Muslim girl if she thought standing for the Pledge of Alligence offended her beliefs, and if so, just what beliefs would they be?...

They will probably report to the local leftist newspaper reporter wannabee or maybe to the CIA>..

HA! I miss the edit feature...They will probably report to the local leftist newspaper reporter wannabee or maybe to the CIA>..

s/b they will probably report me to....

This is serious here..
Americans now cannot even expect
other people from other nations to
BOTHER to respect us law or customs..

and why should they when obama and the democrats
completly ignore all of the criminals they have placed into CZAR positions of power
without any and i repeat ANY vote by either the congress / senate or the us people..

For the liberals know this is their chance to seiuze power and they will do so
by hook or by crook

Are you prepared

www.veteranoutrage.com

heroyalwhyness -- nice analysis.

hey will probably report to the local leftist newspaper reporter wannabee or maybe to the CIA>..
Posted by: pulsar182 [TypeKey Profile Page]

I think the FBI handles domestic terrorism and right-wing radicals like us. The CIA will probably be shut down by the Obama commies for violating sacred international law. Wouldn't want them to piss off our beloved and helpful "allies", whoever they are, and we certainly wouldn't want them to evoke the angst of the peaceful, persecuted, perpetually enraged islamic world, which just wants to be left alone to build nukes and conquer the world.

Hesperado - seconded, re. heroyalwhyness' masterly analysis of the newspaper report. It matches some of the readings we've had from joeblough and gravenimage (and any such, that were made between february and august this year, will have been saved by me, and will be reattached to the relevant articles, in due time, as I find the time).

'Jihadwatch - where you learn to *read* the newspapers'.

Whoa, I read this in the local paper the other day. I never thought I'd see this mentioned here.

I can tell you right now that, while the majority of this city may actually be conservative, the airhead staff of that particular school is extremely liberal, and I know many students (conservative AND liberal) who can vouch for that. The last thing that school has to worry about is someone being "intolerant" or "offensive"--like, oh, I don't know, the allegations of the staff sexually assaulting/harassing students?

It is, of course, no surprise that Tampa agrees. The dhimmitude here is ridiculous.

...Although, I'm *so* certain that Council President Ahmed Bedier is completely fair and balanced...

I have ambivalent feelings about this story.

As a hard-core Christian, I'd have trouble with the Pledge if it weren't for the "under God" in it. A flag, or even one's country, are still not great enough to deserve the unconditional oath of a rational creature. Further, I write this as someone who (God forgive me for the sin of pride) considers himself a patriot and feels honored to have served my country as a diplomat in the past.

Granted, Islam is a false religion, and Allah is not the God who led Abram out of Ur of the Chaldees, the Israelites out of Egypt, and Jesus as he walked among us. But the question of conscience faced by the girl in this story is one with which I can feel a certain amount of sympathy.

Other things:

I have stood for other people's patriotic observances, and would do so if the Supreme Court orders the "Under God" out of the Pledge.

Further, if the school wants to inculcate patriotism, respect for others, and open discussion, its treatment of Heather was simply inexcusable. The reaction of the local human rights council was also disgusting.

Time to stand up for America, The Flag, our way of life, our freedom. Time to deport all who do not want to be American and accept our ways. They are a cancer in our midst waiting to kill us off! Those who roll over now will be taken in the end! Muslims make me sick!

Looks like Spencer forgot to mention that the Muslim girl actually stood for the pledge of allegiance (as per her teacher)

And he didn't mention that the young ROTC student told the Muslim girl to take her hijab off; agree with the hijab or not, the young woman chooses to wear it.

Kepha, the point is not whether or not the Muslim girl should be punished. Even if we agree she should not be punished for simply exercising her right not to show patriotism (as for example Jehovah's Witnesses have over time won that right legally in various ways through court cases), the point is the girl who verbally criticized her was also exercising her right to free expression (free expression in support of showing patriotic allegiance to the very country their school was in!) -- and for that reason she should not be punished either.

So it turns out that Miss Lawrence was lying about the girl not standing for the Pledge. It's beginning to look more like she just felt like picking on the girl with the hijab because she was "different."

Posted by: Kepha [TypeKey Profile Page] at September 1, 2009 2:24 AM........If the problem were simply a 'pledge' I would agree with you, but the real question is that of assimilation and loyalty to the USA. The mohammedan is a representative of a 'religion' which openly through it's scriptures and current and past authoritarians seeks our servitude and despises America and it's laws. A person representing my culture takes the mohammedan to task for this treason and is duly punished by the liberal power structure. Meanwhile idiots like no-nuts and others applaud this event which if not resisted will eventually lead our children into slavery........DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

A flag, or even one's country, are still not great enough to deserve the unconditional oath of a rational creature.Further, I write this as someone who (God forgive me for the sin of pride) considers himself a patriot and feels honored to have served my country as a diplomat in the past.

Yoiks. Loyalty to one's country does not require blind faith. Yes, our country is great enough to deserve an unconditional oath. Makes me wonder how much damage you may have done to U.S. interests while a diplomat.

I am resolutely conservative, deeply patriotic, and completely atheist. I always marvel that so many conservatives assign atheism to the left - 'taint so McGee. I get by just dandy without having a make-believe friend up in the sky. Come and get me for it, I'm also an NRA member - I'll be ready.

Hesperado, we're on the same page re the two girls in Florida.

Richard, since you think the nation deserves unconditional oath, you're no atheist, but an idolatrous worshipper of Moloch (deified kingship or political power)--or, maybe john Locke was right about retaining intolerance for atheists, since their oaths can't be trusted (see __Essay on Toleration__). Make-believe friends can be on the ground, in brain synapses, bank vaults, and lots of other places besides the sky.

One great thing about the USA is that it (and the cultural tradition behind its founders) recognizes that there are inalienable rights bestowed by our Creator--not occasional rights that the all-powerful state deigns to bestow.

John Locke wasn't right.
Robert Ingersoll was.

Kepha, since you think the nation, and therefore the Constitution, do not deserve an unconditional oath, you are not a patriot. I will however refrain from the ad hominem which you have resorted to. But go ahead, continue to promote intolerance - it's nothing to be proud of.

Atheism blows me away, I can't understand such blindness. As King David said "The fool has said in his heart 'there is no God'" I would never trust someone of that mentality for anything, especially when struggling with an enemy such as mohammedanism. Just as I question the morality of the abortionist, so I question the intelligence of the atheist.

Trust no one, question every thing. sounds a bit like Bhuddism.

If I'm not mistaken, Hugh Fitgerald is an athiest. But perhaps my recollection is not correct; for God's sake, don't trust me on this.

Let the dogpile continue, woof! Just pause to think, do you know well whom all you are painting with your broad brush?

"I get by just dandy without having a make-believe friend up in the sky."..........Yeah let the dogpile continue righteous one.

Cool! I went from idolater to righteous one in nothing flat.

As you paint atheists in general as untrustworthy and unintelligent, keep in mind you just tagged Ayan Hirsi Ali as well.

CJK, you stated it clearly yourself: "...I can't understand"

the administration needed to but out. it was an okay question to ask. and did not need to be apologized for asking.

When I was a school teacher, it was difficult to get my high school kids to shut up during the pledge much less stand with their hands over their hearts and say the words aloud. to show just how old I am, it only took a week for us to remember to add"Under G-D" to the pledge. we had daily devotions, After a short argument, I was allowed to only use the "old testament. we started any assembly with either the pledge or the star spangled banner, usually both. the few Jehovah's witnesses and people who were not Americans would stand out of respect but remain quiet. Boys in the secular schools were required to take hats off if that had on usually a boy scout hat. Children were taught basic manners and civility at home and it was reinforced in the school. In the Old South, where I am originally from, we were told to say yes mam, no mam, yes sir, no sir, a s mark of respect. this is one of the reasons that I no longer teach,

The consideration of minority feelings, teaching diversity, and political correctness in general has gotten out of hand. Back in the day all we, Jews and the atheists wanted was not to be forced to say the lords prayer and to be able to not be penalized for taking off Jewish holidays.

Dustan...
"And he didn't mention that the young ROTC student told the Muslim girl to take her hijab off; agree with the hijab or not, the young woman chooses to wear it."
Riiight...ever heard of Stockholm Syndrome?
She "chooses" to wear slave rags?
She "CHOOSES"? Like hell she does. She has been brainwashed. She also knows damned well, that she must submit or have her ass beaten to death by her parents or maybe an older brother.
Are you kidding me? She "chooses" to wear those damnable slave rags?
Get a clue.