Medvedev refers to the jihadists' "unorthodox views on Islam," indicating that like his counterparts in the West, he believes that Islam is a Religion of Peace™. Yet the relative peacefulness of the Islam in the Caucasus was a product of cultural accommodation, not theological reform. Medvedev would no doubt be quite surprised -- as surprised as, say, Gordon Brown would be -- to learn that all the mainstream sects and schools of jurisprudence teach warfare against unbelievers in order to subjugate them as inferiors under the rule of Islamic law. "Medvedev turns to Muslim clerics to counter radicals," by Denis Dyomkin for Reuters, August 28 (thanks to Natalie):
SOCHI, Russia, Aug 28 (Reuters) - President Dmitry Medvedev on Friday urged Russia's top Muslim clerics to join forces to stop radical Islamist groups wooing young people in the turbulent North Caucasus.He proposed a Muslim television channel and controls on access to Islamic education abroad as ways of tackling Islamist insurgency in the region....
A wave of suicide bomb attacks and armed assaults on police and security forces in Chechnya and next-door Ingushetia and Dagestan has marked the Muslim holy month of Ramadan in Russia's North Caucasus....
Medvedev backed the idea of confronting radical Islamist propaganda but he indicated the options were limited.
"We cannot force people to give up Internet or close these sites," he said, proposing such alternatives as a television channel to promote mainstream Islam.
"We need to think about finding a channel which would offer teaching and comprehensive explanation of Islam that is traditional for our country," he said without elaborating.
Medvedev also proposed stronger control over young people returning to Russia after studying Islam abroad. Mainstream clerics say many Islamic schools in Arab countries spread radical teachings.
"There indeed must be control," Medvedev said. "Unfortunately these people are returning ... (and) bring back unorthodox views on Islam," he said....
Memo to Dmitry Medvedev - you would be much better advised to urge the Russian Orthodox - and all other churches in Russia - to engage in an all-stops-out evangelism campaign among Muslims in Russia (the Tartar are already responding very well to the new Tartar-language Bible translation, I understand; and the circulation, in the former Soviet Republics of central Asia, of Azeri, Turkmen, Kirgiz, Kazakh, Tajik and Uzbek translations of the Christian scriptures is also finding a response). Tell them 'have at it!' and do nothing whatever to hinder them. Come down like a ton of bricks on any Muslim harassment of Christians or of any other non-Muslims within the Federation.
I would also advise Mr Medvedev to consider sponsoring, as psy-ops, the broadcasting 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, of *all* Fr Zakaria Botros' programs, dubbed and/ or subtitled into colloquial Russian, into Chechen, and other languages used by Muslims within Russia and in the Central Asian republics.
A flat ban on *any* new mosques and islamic schools, and on the wearing in public of the Muslim female slave rag in any of its forms, even the most apparently innocuous, would also be advised.
It might also be a good idea to consult with the government of Singapore and have a look at the sorts of laws by which they regulate their Muslim population.
Oh, and get competent translators to render the complete works of Mr Robert Spencer, and of Canon Dr Patrick Sookhdeo, as well as Nonie Darwish's 'Cruel and Usual Punishment', and Wafa Sultan's new book about Islam, 'A God Who Hates', into Russian and other major languages of the Federation. Publish them in nice cheap paperback versions. Every officer in the Russian army should have a nice sturdy paperback copy of Mr Spencer's 'Onward Muslim Soldiers', for starters.
This is a lot like asking for help from the pot to make the kettle stop being black.
dumbledoresarmy I would suggest it would be better for Medvedav to look at history
Oh how it pains me when every time I remember that it was the British who stopped the Russians from taking Constantinople
I
Dumbledor's Army seems to have covered most of what I was about to say in his memo to Dmitri.
I would recommend that this be put into formal letter and sent to all leaders of all freedom- aspiring nations, and those attempting to shield liberty from the haboob of Islamic threats and intimidation.
The modern-day leaders seem confused as to the nature of the shamal blowing into their countries. This is due in part to their historical ignorance of the ideology and the deception(al-Taqiyya) imposed upon them by their invaders.
The Islamic jihadists are succeeding, through the imposition of shariah law, in every aspect of our societal collapse as if they had studied our democratic systems for the last 1400 years and found every possible loophole in the needle to pass the camels through. In the meantime, western society has become unconscious to the threat as if totally brainwashed.
dumbledoresarmy..... BRAVO :-)
Is this the same Russia that is actively encouraging Iran in their nuclear program ?
Is there any hypocricy in warning of jihadism, and on the other hand actively supporting it ?
This will come back to bite the Russian people.
Empty professions versus practise.The economics of power and war. Medvedev.
ps.: just thinking 'war is deceit' Medvedev trying to sandbag our enemy, islam.
But then 'war is deceit' - our own bastard Dem politicians, who are at war with us, lying their fool mouths off continuously.
Memo to Dmitry Medvedev - you would be much better advised to do as Stalin did in regard to the Muslims:
"when Joseph Stalin consolidated power in the second half of 1920s, his religion policy changed. Mosques were closed or turned into warehouses throughout Central Asia. Religious leaders were persecuted, religious schools were closed down and Waqf's were outlawed. The Soviet government took the Paranji veil that the women wore (as part of the Islamic Hijab interpretation of Modesty) as evidence that the Muslim women were oppressed, and began the Hujum to try and forcefully remove it."
What could possibly go wrong? ;-)
What the hell happend to Russia. During the rule of the Tsar's they weren't this soft on the muslims. Even the sovjets knew how to deal with the muslims. This medvedev fellow should know that NO muslim will help (without ulterior motives) non-muslims in the fight against muslim jihadi's. In the eyes of the muslims non-muslims are nothing more than dirty infidels/kaffirs and a muslim helping a kaffir in the fight against muslim jihadi's is considered a traitor by the rest of the muslims.
Making appeasment deals with muslims in order to pacify them will NEVER work because islam=jihad
The sooner the Russians understand that and start a total war against islam in Russia the better.
@ Dumbledoresarmy,
BRAVO, you already said what i wanted to say. I would want to add that for those muslim unwilling to convert to the Russian Orthodox religion they should be given the same option there muslim forefathers gave to the Christian Russians (and all other conquered peoples) convert or die.
Give them a taste of their own medicine, that would be poetic justice.
"There indeed must be control," Medvedev said. "Unfortunately these people are returning ... (and) bring back unorthodox views on Islam," he said....
LOL, no they bring back the true and correct views on that deathcult islam.
Errata Sheet:
For
"There indeed must be control," Medvedev said. "Unfortunately these people are returning ... (and) bring back unorthodox views on Islam," he said...."
Read
"There indeed must be control," Medvedev said. "Unfortunately these people are returning ... (and) bring back orthodox views on Islam," he said....
Medvedev's wishful thinking and comments about jihad, which is nearly as important in mahoundianism as Mahound itself (not himself), are just as pathetic and dumb as former British Home Secretary Jacqui Smith's moronic initiative to "rebrand" that essential part of mahoundian doctrine as anti-islamic activities. That makes about as much sense as labeling Churches "anti-Christian houses of worship", doesn't it?
Forgive me for the OT link. I am unsure whether this has been posted yet or not.
http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/2009/08/ired.html
I think my mind boggled.
BACK TO THE FUTURE
The Orthodox patriarchate is a bulwark of autocracy.
The installation of Kirill I as the new patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church this year will not end the subordination of the church to the Putin/Medvedev regime. On the contrary, the church is likely to emerge as an even stronger supporter of dictatorship and anti-Western ideology.
Kirill, who was the Metropolitan of Smolensk, succeeds Alexei II who died in December last year after 18 years as head of the Russian Church. According to material from the Soviet archives, Kirill was a KGB agent (as was Alexei). This means he was more than just an informer, of whom there were millions in the Soviet Union. He was an active officer of the organization. Neither Kirill nor Alexei ever acknowledged or apologized for their ties with the security agencies.
As head of the church's department of foreign church relations, Kirill gained the reputation of a relatively enlightened church leader. He met with Pope Benedict, and he has been attacked by church conservatives for "ecumenism."
More important than his contacts with Catholics, however, has been Kirill's support for a new Russian ideology based on the denial of human rights. At the 10th meeting of the World Russian People's Council - an international public organization headed by the patriarch, in Moscow, on April 4, 2006 - Kirill accused human rights leaders in the West of "dictatorially" forcing societies to accept the right to engage in gambling, euthanasia and homosexuality.
The Council said that there are values "that stand no lower than human rights." These are "faith, morality, sacred places and homeland." When these values contradict the realization of human rights, "the society and government and law should harmoniously combine them." How this could be done was not made clear but, according to the Council, it is impossible to tolerate a situation in which human rights "threatened the existence of the motherland."
Alexander Solzhenitsyn lent his support to Kirill's remarks. In an interview on May 4, 2006, he said that "unlimited rights are exactly what our cave dwelling ancestor had. Nothing could stop him from snatching meat from his neighbor and finishing him off with a big stick." He said that what was needed were not human rights but "human obligations."
In principle I agree with Solzhenitsyns critique of universal human rights. Instead of defining a number of human rights through political compromise logic dictates that we rationally define and put the moral obligations before any rights. Rights can only exist if humans submit to specific moral obligations that allows the rights.
It is a dangerous illusion that we from birth by our Creator are endowed with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
The former West German Chancellor (1974-82) Helmut Schmidt, who was a great admirer of the philosopher Karl Popper, came to the same conclusion and proposed that we instead of human rights specified human obligations.
At least the religions understand that obligations - to God - is prior to any rights.
'It is a dangerous illusion that we from birth by our Creator are endowed with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.'
As you've posited it, Russian Orthodoxy sounds almost as scary as Islam, Ispo Facto. (Perhaps they abstain from the beheading part?)
Thanks, but no thanks.
Thanks for the link, Robert.
@ Vee
I take the Russian Orthodoxy over islam any time of the day
Dumbledoresarmy,
To your excellent suggestions to Pres. Medvedev, I might add one more: do everything possible to end the suicidal abortion rate in Russia, and encourage Russians to have larger families.
To all those suggesting a revival of Stalin's methods of dealing with the Moslems, be careful what you wish for. Remember that he suppressed Christianity and its churches at thoroughly as he did Islam and its mosques.
"Yet the relative peacefulness of the Islam in the Caucasus was a product of cultural accommodation, not theological reform. "
Or the relative peacefulness of the Islam in the Caucasus was a product of Soviet Communists ruthlessly suppressing Islam, destroying thousands of mosques in the process, and likely lots of killing.
I believe that Beslan is in the North Caucasus and the fifth anniversary of the beginning of the Islamic attack on the school there is tomorrow. The attack took place over 3 days from September 1-3, 2004.
Don't forget to remember the children and other victims over the next 3 days.
ebonystone:
"To all those suggesting a revival of Stalin's methods of dealing with the Moslems, be careful what you wish for. Remember that he suppressed Christianity and its churches at thoroughly as he did Islam and its mosques."
Happy you understood my ironi: "What could possibly go wrong? ;-)"
The other thing that went wrong was that the Soviet Muslims when the Nazis attacked in large numbers joined the SS.
During World War II, hundreds of thousands of foreign peoples joined with Hitler's legions to bring theirs people into special status in Hitler's New Order. Tens of thousands among them were Muslims, where the majority of them came from Soviet Union. Under the banner of the crescent and the swastika, these Soviet Muslims believe to become holy warriors to liberated theirs land. But the end of this unholy alliance was a disaster for them. Stalin took a gruesome revenge.
When the German Army invaded Soviet Russia on June 22, 1941 they saw many of their opponent inhabitants welcomed them as liberators. One of the group of Soviet citizens that felt had reason to rejoice the coming of the Teutonic legion invaders were Soviet Muslims.
In Caucasus, an all-Islam army, composed of Azeris, Ajars, and other Caucasian Muslims, assisted the Turkish army under Nuri Pasha, who was known for his Pan-Turanian ideas. They besieged many non-Muslims towns in Caucasus that refused surrender to them and starved it into submissions. Some of them implicated with the massacres of Armenians.
The German courting of the Soviet Muslims was part of Hitler's lunatic schemes for bringing Turkey into his side and for advancing to control the oil fields in Middle East and Baku. The Soviet Muslims fighting units were supposed to take part in bringing the whole Middle East into the German orbit.
As Hitler said in December 1942, "I consider only the Muslims to be reliable ... I see no danger in the establishment of purely Muslim units." As propaganda tools the Nazis attempt to revive and encourage Pan-Turanian tendency in Turkey and within Soviet Muslims population was rather successful.
The same thing developed in Central Asia. In Kokand, a free government of Turkestan was proclaimed, while the emirs of Khiva and Bukhara asserted their independence. The Turkish-Tartar peoples in Crimea and Volga also arose against the Russians.
Crimean Tartar was not only gladly collaborating with the Germans, but was also supplying the Wehrmacht with 20,000 soldiers. These descendants of Mongols especially infamous during anti-partisan operations. In July-August 1943, Yalta mayor V.I. Maltzev formed a Tartars punitive battalion in Yevpatoria. Known as 'Khimi', the battalion fought the partisan in Yaila Mountains, where they burned several partisan bases and killed many civilians.
Impressed with their action, the Germans later transferred the battalion to northwestern France to fought the French maquis. Once again, their atrocious behaviors become well known so that feed fears to French civilians. An example of their cruelty occurred in Dortan in Ain on July 21, 1944 where the Tartars soldiers punished the village because its hospitality to the Maquis. According the reports of eyewitnesses, they raped women that fall into theirs hand collectively, burned the village, and laughed wildly while playing in the front of the flames with children bicycles.
Reichsführer SS Heinrich Himmler was known as Islam most willing promoter and collaborator among the Nazi leadership. Himmler's hatred the 'soft' Christianity was equal for his liking for Islam, which he saw as a masculine, martial religion based on the SS qualities of blind obedience and readiness for self-sacrifice, untainted by compassion for one's enemies. His admiration for Islam made him ready to throw-out his racial 'Aryan pure' fantasies to receive more Muslim volunteers for his sinister legion.
When the mass of Soviet Muslims collaborators followed the retreating German armies to avoid the reprisals that awaited them from the Russians, Himmler would probably not have objected to procuring them for the Waffen SS. He had decided that it was only the Slav and the Jews in the Russian stock who were sub-humans. There was a superior element in the Russian nation which come from Asia and which had produced Attila, Jenghiz Khan, Tamerlane, Lenin, and Stalin. The Soviet Muslims themselves were suited with these criteria. Many of them came from Caucasus (just like Stalin) or were descendants and relatives of the Mongols (like Tartar and Turkestan peoples).
In November 1943, a certain Heer major name Andreas Meyer-Mader meet Himmler to offering his service to help raise and command a Turkic SS unit. Himmler approved the major plan and then transfers him into the ranks of the Waffen SS and promoted him to the rank of SS-Obersturmbannführer. On 14 December, another meeting was held in Berlin in present of the Grand Mufti of the Jerusalem, Hajj Amin el-Husseini. The Grand Mufti approved the plan to raise a Turkic-Muslim SS division and give his "spiritual leadership" to influence the Muslim volunteers.
Osttürkischen Waffen-Verbände der SS was formed on January 1944 as 1.Ostmuslemanische SS-Regiment. (Actually, the Reichsführer SS plans to expand it into a division, Muselmanischen SS-Division Neu-Turkestan, but the plan never realized.) This new formation formed form the Turkic units in the Heer that was disbanded, i.e., 450th, 480th, and I/94 Turkic battalions, plus some new recruits from German POW camps. The recruits not only Turkestanis, but also Azeris, Kirghiz, Uzbek, and Tadjiks volunteers. The unit was formed in Trawniki, Poland, before they were transferred to Belorussia for further training. SS-Obersturmbannführer Andreas Meyer-Mader was appointed as its first commander.
After the defeat of Germany Stalin ordered deportations to the east some of Soviet Muslim nationalities whose representatives had fraternized with the Germans - like Chechens, Balkars, Ingushi, Karachais, and Crimean Tartars. The first four of these nationalities - or what was left of them - were allowed to return to their homes after Stalin's death, while the Crimea Tartars - the most notoriously collaborator - could return only after the fall of the Soviet Union.
Christians are not conducting a jihad in Russia.
Jim Fitzpatrick, a British minister criticized the segregation of male and female guests at Muslim wedding. Yet another 'Gaffe' from another jumped up, half-baked, ill-educated Labour moron; a former fireman indeed. He learned nothing about putting out fires rather than starting them. He actually has a GCSE 'D' in Politics? God Help us internationally if he is ever made a Diplomat. I suppose he left in a huff because there was no beer an' 'Am sandwiches at the buffet. The Minister's action is just a stupid, attention-getting stunt appealing to prejudices. This serves only to inflame the prejudices so widespread today. People have their customs, and you don't insult them. It hasn't been that long since our society had some public institutions that kept men and women separate. And it hasn't been that long since women in our society typically wore hats with veils. Plenty of Western customs, we accept as normal, are unacceptable or ridiculous to others.
Muslim marriage is a religious ceremony. He insulted the bride and groom for his own political gain. They should not walk out because it would have been bad manners and rudeness to do so. They should respect the couple wishes, it’s their big day. He should have ascertained what the customs are beforehand, and then not attended if he thinks the practice offensive. One should have respect of others people's customs, even if one does not agree. Perhaps he should grow up and get an injection of reality. If you are not prepared to accept this then don't go or don't insult the bride and groom by walking out. What a disgusting small minded little man. Just shows the caliber of today's MP's from all parties. Well being a Labour politician his appalling ignorance of Islamic tradition plus downright rudeness to his hosts does not surprise me in the least. He should do his homework instead of ruining someone’s day. He is totally an ignorant person. If a Muslim wants to have separation at a wedding (like much of the Muslim world) then they should be allowed to, and don't insult them when they do. Jewish wedding has observed the tradition of separating of men & women at ceremonies, without raising any eyebrows. Men and women are separated in Masajid and Synagogues. Muslim secondary schools are also segregated.
In the past another British Minister Jack Straw caused a similar furore when he referred to Muslim veils as “a visible statement of separation and difference” and called for women to remove them during surgeries in his Blackburn constituency. No one has the right to ban the freedom of choice in a secular and democratic country. The right to choice is a basic fundamental right the person should have. To veil or not to veil should be an individual choice. Dress codes are for children. Muslim women should be free to wear burqas. If women get Away with wearing cropped shirts and pants that show their panties, they should be able to wear burqas too.
Globalisation is here to stay, Muslims are here to stay and so are other communities. Those idiot British ministers need to learn that the world is made up of different people and the British society and its Establishment need to learn to accept and tolerate every culture for what it is and most importantly respect and tolerate the values of each and every religion.
Iftikhar Ahmad
www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk
I observe, ladies and gentlemen, that we are being spammed by 'iftikhar' again, with his arrogant demand that non-Muslim states should meekly submit to being overrun by Muslims and Islamified.
I suspect, however, that Iftikhar would be just fine with the fact that Egyptian Muslims riot and rage at the very idea that the Copts in their midst should build a new church, and that Malaysian Muslims throw a tantrum because some Hindus want to build a new temple.
And that although he insists, stridently, menacingly, that Muslim women should be able to wear the burqa in the streets of the UK - despite a recent spate of robberies by burqa-wearing bandits who by that expedient were able to conceal their faces, and thus their identities, from CCTV - I very much doubt whether he would be prepared to allow any western woman expat to wear normal western street garb in the streets of Saudi Arabia, Iran or Pakistan.