Salam al-Marayati of the Muslim Public Affairs Council, a thoroughly unpleasant character with whom I have appeared on many radio shows (on which he invariably likens me to Osama bin Laden, although I have never flown any planes into buildings, beheaded anyone, or exhorted anyone to do so), attacks Rifqa Bary, the seventeen-year-old girl who converted from Islam to Christianity and fled from her home and father after he threatened to kill her (as she explains here), and her supporters in a contemptuous, dishonest, condescending and arrogant piece at the Huffington Post, "Rifqa, the Reverand [sic] and Apostasy" (August 18).
Hugh Fitzgerald and Andy Bostom have already weighed in on this utterly contemptible article, but I have a few things to add.
Al-Marayati is intent on impugning Rifqa's own testimony in favor of her father's protestations that he does not intend to kill her -- and indeed, it is her word against his, and the only price we will have to pay if al-Marayati turns out to be wrong is a murdered teenage girl. To support his case, al-Marayati makes essentially two points, both encapsulated in this sentence: "Mohamed Bary allowed his daughter to become a cheerleader and says she can practice any faith she wants -- clearly, he is not a fundamentalist."
His first point is thus that Mohamed Bary, by allowing his daughter to prance around in skimpy cheerleader costumes, clearly was not the sort to insist on the finer points of Islamic law like the death penalty for apostasy (which al-Marayati implies does not exist anyway, so it's hard to see why it would be a feature of "fundamentalism" in the first place). However, honor killing victims in the West have invariably been girls who have been Westernized, adopting Western non-Muslim mores to the growing dismay of their male relatives. Al-Marayati's point is that if Mohamed Bary were a "fundamentalist," he would not have allowed Rifqa to become Westernized in the first place. Real life, however, is not always that simple. Honor killing victims like Amina and Sarah Said in Texas and Aqsa Parvez in Canada appear to been quite Westernized for a considerable period before their relationships with their fathers reached a tipping point, and they were murdered. Rifqa Bary fled before that could happen, but the fact that she was a hijab-less cheerleader indicates nothing. Pamela Geller explains further in responding to the same claim from Mike Thomas of the Orlando Sentinel:
Victims are generally beautiful, Westernized, and dressed in a manner that perhaps Thomas would term “provocative.” Muslim girls who live in the West lead two lives. Amina and Sarah Said, allegedly murdered by their father in Texas on New Year’s Day 2008 for having non-Muslim boyfriends, were honor students, star athletes, soccer players, tennis players, etc. Rifqa was the same way in Ohio before she fled. These girls led double lives. The murder always happens when the family sees they have lost control of the child.
Al-Marayati's second point is that, contrary to Rifqa's own claim, the Qur'an says nothing about killing apostates:
She claims that her parents "love God more than me" and therefore have to perform an honor killing on her. She argues "it's in the Quran". No it's not, sweet little Rifqa. It's not in the Quran. Whoever told you that is either ignorant or a liar. You should look it up yourself before claiming it's in the Quran.Rev. Lorenz is then quoted in a local television station report saying that if a Muslim leaves his religion and does not return to Islam in a couple of days, then he must be killed. He claims that someone showed him the verse. There is no such verse, Rev. Lorenz. In every faith, apostasy is shunned but ultimate judgment is left to God, not people.
Two things are being confused here: honor killing and the death penalty for apostasy. Honor killing is not discussed directly in the Qur'an, although it is given strong implicit support by 18:74, 80-81, when the mysterious figure known in Islamic tradition as Khidr, traveling with the prophet Moses, kills a young man Moses terms "innocent" (18:74). Khidr explains: "And as for the lad, his parents were believers and we feared lest he should oppress them by rebellion and disbelief. So we desired that their Lord would give them in exchange (a son) better in purity (of conduct) and closer in affection." The young man is murdered because he is an unbeliever, so that his parents may be given a believing child in exchange. (Why the unbelieving son has to be killed before the believing son can be given to them is not explained.) Thus the precedent is set: a child who is an unbeliever is killed for his unbelief.
The death penalty for apostasy is found more directly in the Qur'an -- Islamic authorities generally root it in two Qur'anic verses, 2:217 and 4:89, as Hugh has noted. Here is 2:217:
They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members." Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein.
What does it mean that the works of those who "turn back from their faith and die in unbelief" will "bear no fruit in this life" as well as in the next? Let's go for an answer to the Tafsir al-Qurtubi, a classic and thoroughly mainstream exegesis of the Qur'an. About 2:217, Qurtubi says this:
Scholars disagree about whether or not apostates are asked to repent. One group say that they are asked to repent and, if they do not, they are killed. Some say they are given an hour and others a month. Others say that they are asked to repent three times, and that is the view of Malik. Al-Hasan said they are asked a hundred times. It is also said that they are killed without being asked to repent.
Did you notice one option that Qurtubi never mentions? That's right: he never says anything like "some say the apostate should not be killed." The only point of contention seems to be how long the Muslim must wait before he kills the apostate.
Meanwhile, 4:89 says this:
They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they). But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.
Thus those who have fled from what is forbidden, i.e., embraced Islam, should be killed if they "turn renegades." The Tafsir al-Jalalayn, another venerable and respected commentary on the Qur'an, explains that a Muslim should not trust these people "until they emigrate in the way of God, a proper emigration that would confirm their belief" -- that is, if they leave their homes to join up with the Muslims. "Then, if they turn away, and remain upon their ways, take them, as captives, and slay them wherever you find them." Here again, no attempt is made, in this Qur'an commentary or any of those that Muslims revere as trustworthy, to explain that this does not actually mean that one should kill the "renegade."
And of course al-Marayati focuses narrowly on Rifqa's statement about the Qur'an. He never mentions, although he surely must know, that Muhammad said "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him," and that this statement in the Hadith (in which it appears several times) became the foundation for the unanimous verdict of all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence: the apostate must be killed.
That he does not mention this key point is just one indication that as a witness to Islamic teaching on this (and other) matters, Salam al-Marayati is not to be trusted.
Let's see Robert, should I choose to believe you, Hugh, and Andy, or...Salam al-Marayati, a Muslim, of the Muslim Public Affairs Council, whose "record on defending terrorist groups and extremists is substantial."
See this article for details: http://www.investigativeproject.org/profile/114
Ummm... no contest. Thanks, Robert.
Dear Robert, I feel pretty reassured, because you've never flown any planes into buildings, beheaded anyone, or exhorted anyone to do so. You always make me laugh. But this Al-Marayati is more than an unpleasant character, he's a pain in the ass and even worse. Apostasy is one of the worst crimes in Islam comparable only to making fun of the self-appointed prophet, but that's something only infidels do. Thanks a lot for protecting Rifqa, your place in heaven is reserved, but heaven can wait.
And the money quote from the Koran that Spencer adduces -- 2:217 -- has this phrase:
Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter.
And guess what the Arabic word is for what one translator rendered as "tumult and oppression"? That's right: Fitna.
Other translators render it "persecution" (Pickthall, Shakir, Sher Ali, Arberry) or "sedition" (Palmer) or "civil strife" (Rodwell) or "temptation [to idolatry]" (Sale). The last translation by Sale is echoed by Ibn Kathir, who argues for an equivalence between Fitna and Shirk -- the latter being the sin of polytheism, for which the Koran accuses both Christians and Jews.
I suppose the only bright spot in the Huffpo piece is that most of the comments are skeptical of Al-Mayayati's arguments. I'm not sure if that indicates anything, but if even some of the Huffpo readers understand that Islam is problematic, then there's hope for the Huffpo-ites yet. (I'm not say all, just a few-hey, we need as many people as we can to help defend against Islamification!!!)
Praying for this young girl and that the Lord watches over her if she is returned to her Father. We know Islam doesn't put any worth on an individuals life, Islam only serves itself and the evil force behind it.
God bless that little girl and may the Lord protect her.
Amen!!
Robert's citation of the story of Al-Khidr (18:65-82) is instructive in that it highlights "moral" principles in the Quran which are held up therein as holy, pious, and righteous, yet which are consistent with both "honor killing" and the death penalty for apostasy in particular.
According to the background traditions cited in Ibn Kathir's tafsir of the Quran's Al-Khidr passage, in order to prevent a boy from apostatizing and promoting disbelief, Al-Khidr literally grabs the boy's head and rips it off, killing him. Al-Khidr's action is presented as righteous; an act of true faith in the service of Allah's inscrutable will. Al-Khidr is presented as a rightly-guided slave of Allah himself, sent to teach the prophet Moses a lesson.
Islam has no morality save that of the necessity of obedience to authority: the authority of the Qur'an, the Hadith, the Sira, and what Islamic jurisconsults long ago made out of those texts, then slammed down the portcullis on the gates of ijtihad.
Islam has, in lieu of what non-Muslims consider to be a moral code (including the Golden Rule that cannot be found in Islam, where the important thing is loyalty to Muslims and Islam, and hostility to all non-Muslims and all that is non-Islam) rules, rules about what is Commanded and what is Prohibited. The Believer is merely a "slave of Allah," are never to question those rules or, indeed, to ask anything of a skeptical or critical nature about Islam. That is strengst verboten. Yours not to reason why; yours but to do (and not even sigh). There is no possibility of moral development within Islam; there is no mechanism by which this can take place.
To amplify Kinana's amplification above of the "mysterious stranger" figure in Koran 18:60-80 mentioned by Spencer, we also read in verse 65 that this "slave of God" character Khidr is specifically described as being a Godly man -- "unto whom We [i.e., the "royal we" Allah] had given mercy from Us, and had taught him knowledge from Our presence" (verse 65). Also, he doesn't just teach Moses one lesson, about the righteousness of killing that wayward child who left the Islam of his parents, but teaches him many other lessons as well in those verses as he travels on foot with Moses teaching him divine "wisdom". Interestingly, Moses objects rather strenuously to the killing of the boy but is apparently convinced it was the right and godly thing to do.
Also, to the extent that one could say that preceding verses set the stage of meaning and context for subsequent verses (not always the case in the disjointed Koran), the preceding verses to this story of the "mysterious stranger", basically verse 1 through 59 of that sura, are all about how God has given Mankind the truth but most of Mankind (and/or the Israelites) is ungrateful and doesn't heed the truth, and how God has destroyed them (in the Flood presumeably) and will destroy them again because of their unbelief.
What might be the fate of Rifqa's father if he does not kill Rifqa? How will the male Muslim community deal with him? Is he not under some sort of compulsion or threat himself?
Elaboration on this issue might help present a nexus between the generic Muslim community and the ultimate fate of Rifqa if she were returned.
"Salam al-Marayati is not to be trusted."
Can any Mohammadan be trusted? I think not!
Salam Al Marayati, in his comments section for his article at Huffington Post, writes in response to some critical commenters:
emphasis addedAl-Marayati had just argued, in his article, the following:
emphasis addedSo here is Al-Marayati's basic scheme:
->apostasy from Islam is actually treason
->4:89-90 is essentially about treason
->4:89-90 has "nothing to do with apostasy."
Another problem for Al-Marayati is that he helps himself to the Hadith and Sira in making vague allusions about the people and the context for the 4:88-91 passage, for these are the only contexts from which such supposed identity and context information could be obtained for that passage. Yet he carefully omits the crucial fact that the Hadith and Sira are also the sources for the death penalty for apostasy. Selective quotation, selective omission. It would be difficult to believe that Al-Marayati is merely naive, confused, and sloppy.
",,,,likens me to Osama bin Laden,,,"
Ridicule? Ad hominen attacks?
Seems lots of people have learned from Saul Alinsky!
We are seeing this all over the place now.
BTW Robert I just ordered your new book from amazon. I know it will take a while to get here, but one is never short of reading material about Islam - unfortunately.
For Salam al-Marayati to consider...
"Then your Lord willed that you leave your home, to fulfill a specific plan, some believers became exposed as reluctant believers".
"They argued with you against the truth, even after everything was explained to them. They acted as if they were being driven to certain death". Sura 8:5-6
"Recall that your Lord inspired the angels: "I am with you; so support those who believed. I will throw terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved. You may strike them above the necks, and you may strike even every finger".
"This is what they have justly incurred by fighting GOD and His messenger. For those who fight against GOD and His messenger, GOD's retribution is severe". Sura 8:12-13
Here are some other verses from the Qur'an that I believe point to apostasy and the punishment for it.
Those who disbelieve after believing, then plunge deeper into disbelief, their repentance will not be accepted from them; they are the real strayers.
Those who disbelieve and die as disbelievers, an earthful of gold will not be accepted from any of them, even if such a ransom were possible. They have incurred painful retribution; they will have no helpers. Sura 3:90-91
Those who disbelieve in GOD, after having acquired faith, and become fully content with disbelief, have incurred wrath from GOD. The only ones to be excused are those who are forced to profess disbelief, while their hearts are full of faith. Sura 16:06
O you who believe, if you revert from your religion, then GOD will substitute in your place people whom He loves and who love Him. They will be kind with the believers, stern with the disbelievers, and will strive in the cause of GOD without fear of any blame. Such is GOD's blessing; He bestows it upon whomever He wills. GOD is Bounteous, Omniscient.
To quote back to Salam al-Marayati his own words (with some modification) on his denial of apostasy in the Qur'an:
Salam al-Marayati is yet another slick, and highly disingenuous, Islamic apologist and budding cultural jihadist. Thankfully, we have Robert Spencer and Andrew Bostom to shed much needed light on his vile deceits.
Why is this guy still in the United States? He should be deported back to Iraq.
Hello All,
Did anyone happen to notice the amazingly ironic article that was posted immediately below Salam Al Marayati's Huffington Post story on Rifqa, dated August 18, 2009?
The title of the article is 'Somali Islamist Insurgents Behead 7 People,' who were accused of...abandoning the Muslim faith!
If Marayati is correct (i.e., 'It's not in the Quran. Whoever told you that is either ignorant or a liar. You should look it up yourself before claiming it's in the Quran'), then where do you suppose these Somali 'insurgents' got the idea to kill 7 men for apostacy?
ps - screen prints available...
She's 17 (and soon to be or already is) 18. Is this really a problem? If she can hold out for a few more months, the legal issue will go away by itself. She could have gotten married on her own three years ago in Louisiana.
al Kidya,
The verse 48:29 "They will be kind with the believers, stern with the disbelievers"
The word translated as "stern" is probably a lot more extreme, given the different translations of it as: "harsh" (Khalifa, Qaribullah), "fierce" (Sale), "vehement" (Rodwell).
"Under U.S. law, treason is punishable by death." -- al Marayati
Just remember that, al Marayati, when the West finally wakes up to the fact that allegiance to Islam itself constitutes treason against the West.
Robert, There might be another Koranic passage that applies to the fate of apostates: 16:106-8 (It's hard to figure out the exact verse #'s in my Koran),
"Those who are forced to recant while their hearts remain loyal to the Faith shall be absolved; but those who deny God after professing Islam and open their bosoms to unbelief shall incur the wrath of God and be sternly punished."
Although "sternly punished" doesn't necessarily mean death to the apostates in this translation by Dawood, I wonder if other translations do have that meaning. What does Ibn Kathir's Tafsir have to say about the meaning of "sternly punished" in this passage?
Looking at the faces of her parents it is so obvious that they both are liars and will do whatever they must to accomplish their attaining to their imagined brothel. Do not expect them to be the only ones who want her dead. Allah must sacrafice the blood of many instead of ONE.
From the quoted article, "She claims that her parents "love God more than me""
This part is also from the Quran and Hadith. Muslim believers are admonished to love Allah and Muhammad more than anyone or anything else, including family members. Muslims are also ordered to be "witnesses for Allah," even if it is against their own family (4:135).
Hesperado - Dawood's translation of 48:29 reads 'Those who follow him [Muhammad] are *ruthless* to the Unbelievers but merciful to one another'.
Dawood was not a Muslim (he was a Jew, from Iraq) so Spencer doesn't use him when arguing with Muslims; but Spencer states that Dawood's translation is in fact the most accurate and clearest, in English.
Hesp and Dumbledores,
Al-Kidya has cited some version of 5:54.
Thors_Hammer,
Ibn Abbas' tafsir of 16:106 claims that the warning about those who apostatize refers to 'Abdullah Ibn Sa'd Ibn Abi Sarh.
The hadith indicates that this Abdullah apostatized, but at the conquest of Mecca was found and brought to Muhammad. Abdullah then declared that he repented and re-embraced Islam. That, and an apparent miscommunication between Muhammad and his men (Muhammad initially wanted him to be put to death), led to Abdullah being let off the hook. This outcome is, nonetheless, consistent with the mainstream Islamic policy wherein apostates being given a period of time in which they can re-embrace Islam, after which if they don't convert back to Islam they are put to death.
Ibn Abbas (16:106):
"(Whoso disbelieveth in Allah after his belief) in Him, deserves Allah's wrath (save him who is forced thereto) except the person who is coerced into disbelief (and whose heart is still content with Faith). This verse was revealed about 'Ammar Ibn Yasir (but whoso findeth ease in disbelief) whosoever utters words of disbelief willingly: (On them is wrath from Allah. Theirs will be an awful doom) the most awful torment in this worldly life. This verse was revealed about 'Abdullah Ibn Sa'd Ibn Abi Sarh."
Salam Al Marayati claims that the 4:89-90 "has nothing to do with apostasy".
The Asbab al-Nuzul of al-Wahidi indicates that it does pertain to apostasy:
"(What aileth you that ye are become two parties regarding the hypocrites…) [4:88]. Muhammad ibn Ibrahim ibn Muhammad ibn Yahya informed us> Abu 'Amr Isma'il ibn Najid> Yusuf ibn Ya'qub al-Qadi> 'Amr ibn Marzuq> Shu'bah> 'Adiyy ibn Thabit> 'Abd Allah ibn Yazid ibn Thabit who reported that a group of people initially accompanied the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, to Uhud but then turned back and returned to Medina. The Muslims were divided in their opinions about them. Some of them were of the opinion that they should be killed while others thought they should be spared, and so this verse was revealed. This was revealed by Bukhari> Bundar> Ghundar and also by Muslim> 'Abd Allah ibn Mu'adh> his father; and both transmitters (Ghundar and Ibn Mu'adh's father) related it from Shu'bah. 'Abd al-Rahman ibn Hamdan al-'Adl informed us> Abu Bakr Ahmad ibn Ja'far ibn Malik> 'Ubayd Allah ibn Ahmad ibn Hanbal> his father> al-Aswad ibn 'Amir> Hammad ibn Salamah> Muhammad ibn Ishaq> Yazid ibn 'Abd Allah ibn Qusayt> Abu Salamah ibn 'Abd al-Rahman> his father who related that a group of Arabs came to the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, and embraced Islam. Then they contracted the illness and fever that was going round in Medina and, as a result, renounced Islam and left Medina. They were met by a group among the Companions of the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace who asked them: “Why did you leave Medina?” They replied: “We contracted the illness of Medina and for this reason we disliked remaining there”. The Companions said: “Do you not have a good example in the person of the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace?” Some of the Companions were of the opinion that these Arabs were hypocrites while others thought they were still Muslims. And because of this difference of opinion, Allah, exalted is He, revealed (What aileth you that ye are become two parties regarding the hypocrites…). Mujahid said apropos this verse: “This was revealed about some people who left Mecca to Medina, claiming to be Emigrants. They then renounced Islam and asked permission from the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, to go to Mecca to bring some merchandise with which to trade. The believers were divided in their opinions about this matter. Some thought that these people were hypocrites while others were of the opinion they were believers. Allah, exalted is He, then revealed their hypocrisy by means of this verse and commanded that they be executed in His saying (if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them…) [4:89]. They took their merchandise intending to go to Hilal ibn 'Uwaymir al-Aslami, who had a treaty of alliance with the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, and it is he who was vexed to fight the believers, and so fighting was suspended by the saying of Allah, exalted is He, (Except those who seek refuge with a people between whom and you there is a covenant…) [4:90]”."
http://www.altafsir.com/AsbabAlnuzol.asp?SoraName=4&Ayah=88&search=yes&img=A