Palestinian jihadists fire another rocket, shells into Israel

In a cease-fire BOTH sides are suppose to stop shooting. Not just one. Now someone remind Obama, the UN, and MsM of that little fact!

In a cease-fire BOTH sides are suppose to stop shooting. Not just one. Now someone remind Obama, the UN, and MsM of that little fact!

I am a non-believer and became interested in news at age 9. A lot was going on that year (1973): the Arab-Isareli war, the oil embargo, Watergate, the coup in Chile.

My comment about the IDF action is the same comment that I have made about a lot of other things related to Israel: it is not so much that I support the Israelis. It is more a matter of what the the Arabs say makes no sense and often turns out to be lies, whereas the opposite is true of the Israelis.

I just learned about Jihadwatch on C-Span/BookTV. Excellent work, Mssrs. Spencer and Horowitz.

Apart from donating money, what can I do to help? I am in Florida, should there be a "Jihadwatch chapter" here?

Off topic, but I just caught the airing of Robert Spencer's speech about his book, Stealth Jihad, at the Young America's Foundation 31st Annual Conservative Student's Conference on Book TV.

While I have read a lot of Spencer's work, I had never seen him speak before.

Marvelous--eloquent, pithy, clear--with a small sense of humor--despite the grim subject--that we regularly see here.

He spoke about the phenomenon of "Stealth Jihad"--how its practitioners share the goals of Jihad terrorists, and how its dangers can be more subtle or easily overlooked. He talked about the dangers of creeping Shari'ah.

He noted the use of the West's "hate crime" laws to shut down any criticism of Islam, and how it makes a defense against radical Islam impossible if you cannot even name it, lest you be labeled a "racist" or "Islamophobe"--or, worse, become subject to prosecution for speaking out. He cited the case of Geert Wilders and the disturbing stifling of free speech pushed by the OIC at the United Nations.

He also talked about how policies of the current U.S. administration have made the fight even more difficult.

He was wonderful at clarifying and refuting issues that came up during the Q and A session, as well--most commonly about the phenomenon of "moderate" Muslims--gently and yet firmly, with clear references and examples.

Excellent. I wish I could have been there.

I don't know their schedule, but Book TV does often re-air shows, so it may be possible to catch this segment again.

junglecat - welcome aboard! Welcome to the jihadwatch virtual pub/ coffeeshop/ Hedge School of the Resistance to Jihad and Sharia.

You said: "My comment about the IDF action is the same comment that I have made about a lot of other things related to Israel: it is not so much that I support the Israelis.

*It is more a matter of what the the Arabs say makes no sense and often turns out to be lies, whereas the opposite is true of the Israelis.* {my emphasis added}".

That is *exactly* what the great French maverick scholar, sociologist and lay theologian, Jacques Ellul, says was one of the major factors which led him to declare himself in support of Israel.

You may or may not know that Ellul wrote one of *the* definitive textbook studies of propaganda - 'Propaganda'. He detested the thing; he dissected it with all the fastidious distaste of a great surgeon anatomising a cancer.

And he gave it as his professional opinion, in his book 'Un Chretien pour Israel' (1983: alas, as yet untranslated into English) that it was the Arab/ Muslim side, NOT the Israelis, who appeared to him (once he started looking into the matter in detail) to be the spin-masters. One whole chapter of 'Un Chretien Pour Israel' is entitled simply, 'Propaganda' and is devoted to a thorough, and devastating, case-study-style deconstruction of the vast anti-Israel propaganda carried out by the Arab/Muslim world and at that time (1970s-1980s) by the Soviet bloc.

Continuing my reply to 'junglecat' who has just joined this forum:

re. Ellul.

I should add that, as a Frenchman who was a member of the Resistance during WWII, he had had first-hand experience on the receiving end of Nazi propaganda before and during WWII.

He speaks in 'Un Chretien Pour Israel' of how he became aware that “an exceptional phenomenon of propaganda was unfolding itself” (in relation to Israel and the ‘Palestinians’); his professional instincts being awakened, he states that he began to actively observe and record this phenomenon, and gathered “a pretty considerable documentation”.

Ellul’s analysis of that material led him to conclude that the ‘Palestinians’ and their fellow-travellers were the spin-masters.

He wrote (my translation of the French):

“When I say that it is the propaganda that led me to take sides [for Israel], I am talking about the remarkable Palestinian and anti-Israel propaganda. There, yes, we can speak of propaganda”;

and a little later he added that “for twenty years I have felt myself drowning in this Palestinian propaganda”.

He says also:

"Or, j’ai travaille pendant presque vingt ans pour analyser les formes, les techniques, les effets, les caracteres, les facteurs de la propagande.

"Et quand j’en parle, ce n’est pas tout a fait en sentimental, ignorantin. J’ai pu appliquer presque tous les criteres de la propagande scientifique a cette propagande palestinienne, et anti-israelienne.

"Lorsque j’ai vu et pour moi demonte le fait, alors j’ai pris parti plus decisivement pour Israel, car si celui-ci est tres fort pour organiser une armee ou un service de renseignements, produire sur le plan technique ou economique, il est nul au plan de la propagande.

(translation) 'Now, for almost twenty years [i.e. since the 1960s] I [Ellul] have laboured to analyse the forms, the techniques, the effects, the characteristics, the factors of Propaganda.
-
'And when I talk about propaganda I do not do so as a sentimental and ignorant person. I have been able to apply almost all the criteria of scientific propaganda to this Palestinian, anti-Israel propaganda.
-
'After I had seen the thing and deconstructed it for myself, then I took sides more decisively for Israel; for although Israel is very good at organising an army or an intelligence service, [or at] production on a technical or an economic level, he is hopeless at propaganda.'

And again: “C’est donc ce constat d’une propagande propalestinienne d’une ampleur et d’une habilite unique, depuis le debut des annees soixante, qui m’a radicalement ecarte de la defense palestinienne et qui m’a rapproche d’Israel".

(translation): 'It is, then, that observation of a pro-Palestinian propaganda of a unique breadth and cleverness, from the beginning of the 1960s, that radically shifted me from defending the Palestinians and caused me to draw near to Israel.'.

C’est ainsi au premier chef une reaction de sociologue de la propagande qui ne veut pas se laisser ‘pieger’.

Mais c’est aussi en tant que chretien qu j’ai reagi de cette facon. Et cela a deux points de vue.

D’abord, par une recherche un peu plus exigeante et moins immediatement sentimentale de la realite. J’ai souvent ecrit que les chretiens devaient etre tres attentifs au reel."

- 'That [reaction] is thus first of all the reaction of a sociologist of propaganda who does not want to be “taken in”.

'But it is also as a Christian that I have reacted in this manner. And that from two points of view.

'First, by studying the facts a little more strictly and less immediately sentimentally. I have often written that Christians ought to be very attentive to the fact .

"Mais il y a aussi l’experience que nous avons faite des consequences normales d’une propagande de cet ordre. Les suites sont logiques et n’ont jamais manqué au cours de l’histoire; c’est pourquoi on peut des maintenant les craindre.
- 'But there is too the experience we have had {I think he means, the Shoah - dda} of the normal consequences of a propaganda of this magnitude. The consequences are logical and have never been lacking in the course of history; that is why we must fear them from now on."

"Et c’est au titre, mettons de ‘sentinelle’ (que tout chretien doit etre!), que je considere le fait de cette propagande comme decisif, et que j’ai ete pousse par elle dans le sens invers de celui qu’elle proposait.

- 'And by way of headline, let us put as ‘watchmen’ (what every Christian ought to be),

'that I consider the fact of that propaganda to be decisive, and that it has pushed me in the opposite direction to what it wanted.'
END QUOTE.

Junglecat - kudos to you for seeing the facts, not the illusions; for seeing what Ellul saw.

For more info., search this site using the terms 'lying' 'taqiyya' and 'kitman'. Islam, the Arab Imperial Religion, has an elaborately developed doctrine of deception; deception which is consciously practised in order to confuse, divide and generally destroy the perceived Enemy (whether Jewish or any other non-Muslim). Raymond Ibrahim, who contributed here for a year or so, had an article published in 'Jane's Islamic Affairs Analyst' , September 26 2008, entitled 'Islam's Doctrines of Deception'.

junglecat64 wrote:

I just learned about Jihadwatch on C-Span/BookTV. Excellent work, Mssrs. Spencer and Horowitz.

Apart from donating money, what can I do to help? I am in Florida, should there be a "Jihadwatch chapter" here?
..................

Hello, Junglecat. There are not really local "chapters" of JihadWatch--although perhaps you could start one--certainly, there has been a disconcerting amount of Jihad activity in Florida.

You will learn a great deal here, especially from Robert Spencer. Getting educated about Jihad is the most important thing.

Posters have a lot of different ways of fighting Jihad--some do indeed donate money and buy books, some have their own blogs, some write letters to their political representatives, some speak, some have various anti-Jihad projects.

Welcome.

The Jewish residents of Gaza who were expelled from their homes by Sharon's disastrous disengagement policy should return.
Every opportunity should be taken to establish Infidel residency in Islamic areas. The 1400 year old ethnic cleansing by Muslims needs to be reversed. The only bad settler is no settler.

Hello Junglecat. There are local Chapters of ACT for America in every State. Get involved!

Hello Junglecat. There are local Chapters of ACT for America in every State. Get involved!

All this bullshit was reported by the Palestinian press, I don't believe anything until it's reported by the Israelis.....The Israelis have shown themselves to be 100% correct while the shitbag Palestinians have shown themselves to be completely unreliable as far as the truth is concerned...FACT

Palestinians have to do this kind of thing, because they are being "oppressed" by the cruel "apartheid regime" of Israel. As long as the "oppression" continues, Palestinians are given more or less unofficial carte blanche to do whatever they have to do in their "desperation". Even indiscriminate grotesquely fanatical suicide-bombing becomes "regrettable", but "understandable" -- and the ordinary Westerner if educated at all will tend to regurgitate the Chomskyite equivalency theory whereby such terrorism is no more immoral than the killing which Western nations perpetrate, since "self defense" becomes relative at best, or only the right of Noble Savages and never of the West. This is the template for all incoming data about the situation for most Westerners; and it seems to be getting worse, not better. When the Westerner who follows this template more or less like a robot is pressed against the wall with an informed interrogator, he will fall back on the "cycle of violence" metaphor that grudgingly concedes criticism of the Palestinians -- as long as the Israelis can be dragged down with them. Any concession more rational than that is rare to come by among the reality-challenged, who unfortunately seem to be in the majority throughout the West.

OT: I'm Baaaaaaaaaaaaack

OK, Trolls, bring it on.

I need to kick some ass.

Hesperado,

Exactly correct.

Hey, you remember when Obambi made no secret of his support of the Palestinians?

All those pro-palestinian rallies he attended, even the LA Times couldn't bury the story DURING THE CAMPAIGN.

So, like, what the hell did we expect?

look for the number of rockets that are fired into Israel to start increasing...once again rocket attacks against Israel will become a daily occurrance. The Muslims are a sly bunch...they will coerce Israel into committing to a hostile response, which in their mind, will give them their justification to increase their violence...

and the wheel of the bus go 'round and 'round..

OK, Trolls, bring it on.

I need to kick some ass.
Posted by: Paleologos

I admire your enthusiasm...

Hi Junglecat64 :-)

I live in Florida, too (Kissimmee-St. Cloud area).

Maybe we could discuss starting an ACT for America Chapter.

Cheers, and Welcome!