But never fear. If Obama can force Israel to make enough concessions, they will surely end their jihad against the Jewish State -- won't they? All the learned analysts are just sure of it, so it must be so.
"Fatah: We'll sacrifice victims until Jerusalem is ours," from Haaretz, August 8 (thanks to Alexandre):
The status of Jerusalem as the future capital of a Palestinian state is a red line that no Palestinian leader is permitted to cross, President Mahmoud Abbas' ruling Fatah faction declared in the West Bank on Saturday.According to Israel Radio, the Fatah general conference, which convened in Bethlehem for a three-day gathering, adopted a position paper which also states that the Palestinian national enterprise will not reach fruition until all of Jerusalem, including the outlying villages, come under Palestinian sovereignty.
Fatah, which rules the West Bank but was ousted from power in Gaza by the Islamist Hamas movement, also ruled out any interim agreements with Israel.
"Fatah will continue to sacrifice victims until Jerusalem will be returned [to the Palestinians], clean of settlements and settlers," the paper states.
According to Israel Radio, the paper does not make a distinction between the eastern and western halves of the capital, nor does it distinguish between the territories within the Israeli side of the Green Line and the areas captured by Israel in the 1967 Six-Day War....
Here is my record of the comments that were originally made to this article.
First part.
NAKAL said - Hell will freeze over before any Arab can 'reclaim' Jerusalem. Jerusalem, was, is and SHALL ALWAYS REMAIN THE ETERNAL CAPITAL OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE UNTIL THE END OF TIME.
And while we are at it, Mecca and Medina (Yathrib), which was stolen from the Jews, should be returned to the Jewish people and ALL Muslims should apologize for the slaughter of Jewish tribes in Yathrib by Muhammad in the 7th Century AD.
-HUSSUSUK added - True, but it's so hard to imagine muslims apologize for anything. They are the ones who only want to demand apology from others.
-CAROLE said - Hear, Hear!!
They`ll be hell to pay, it`s God`s land and He gave it to the Jews as an everlasting covenant!
NAKAL said - Muslims are very good at bluster but lack courage (acts of terrorism are hardly acts of courage
GMCCAL said - (quoting) "Fatah will continue to sacrifice victims until..."
A. the moon god's three daughters are not virgins anymore
B. muslim women attain equality with men
C. non-muslims are welcome in Mecca as equals for all eternity
D. the arabs "love their children more than they hate us." [Golda Meir]
E. all of the above.
-DEUSVULT said - The answer of course, is "all of the above"
-ISLAM MACHT FREI said - And NONE of which will ever happen.
HARVARD69 said - I wonder..what will Samantha Powers say... Jews to the left..except for able bodied Jews....
And to think..someone would deal with these people..and actually believe them...
Where I come from ..if someone goes back on his word..he is called a liar...
PULSAR said - (quoting) "Fatah will continue to sacrifice victims ..."
The Muslim families don't care....
MUHAMMADBEAR said - All it would take is one person in the US administration, just one person, to take note of this. This isn't an isolated comment but another example of the continuous dialogue coming from Palestinian authorities clarifying their rejection of any lasting peace.
Once Western leaders can bring themselves to appreciate this rather obvious point then they have no option but to reverse current Middle East policy.
Instead, they take refuge in ignorance.
-GRAVENIMAGE said - The US government has already taken note of this--after a fashion--by virtually condoning it. The US Embassy in Israel is not in the capital--Jerusalem--but in Tel Aviv, instead.
But the US does have a presence in Jerusalem--a "consulate" that makes no mention of Israel, even though it is not only located in that nation, but in its capitol.
So--what is this "consulate"?--it is a de facto US embassy in "Palestine"--its web site is filled with references of all the aid we are sending to the Palestinian Authority. It seems we have already virtually acknowledged Jerusalem as Fatah's capitol. Very troubling.
-MUHAMMADBEAR said - Yes, allow me to amend my last sentence to "Instead, they take refuge in wilful ignorance.
CTYANKEE said - Moral Equivalence Alert! More Anti-Zionist propaganda from National Public Radio.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?stor...
"British historian David Cesarani's new book, Major Farran's Hat, tells a familiar tale of militants in Palestine carrying out acts of terrorism while making claims for an independent homeland. We've heard similar stories before, but this one takes place in 1947, and the terrorists described are fighting against British rule for a Jewish state."
JUSTSAYNO2ISLAM said - To the victor go the spoils right? And didn't the Muslims get their asses handed to them in 1948,1967, 1973, 2008-09? The Islrealis earned that land in blood and I say it's theirs........again.
DUMBLEDORESARMY said - And the Ummah intends to sacrifice victims until the whole of Planet Earth is theirs...
Note the language used in the posted article : "Fatah will continue to sacrifice victims until Jerusalem will be returned [to the Palestinians (sic)], clean of settlements and settlers,".
From Ibn Ishaq's Life of Mohammed, Guillaume translation, p. 326 - “Allah said, ‘No Prophet before Muhammad took booty from his enemy nor prisoners for ransom.’ Muhammad said, ‘I was made victorious with terror. The earth was made a place for me to clean. I was given the most powerful words. Booty was made lawful for me. I was given the power to intercede. These five privileges were awarded to no prophet before me.’”
See that? - "the earth was made a place for me to clean".
The grand Mohammedan ethnoreligious 'cleansing' and 'purifying' project is not just about Jerusalem, or Israel. They're just for starters.
HARVARD69 said - This..is...sad..to say..the end of our beloved America...
Henceforth...we shall be a second-rate power, despised by our enemies, mistrusted by our friends, and...over time...the dream that failed.. a dream that went horribly wrong...a people who will have simply disappeared quietly into history...
Make no bones about it..our children will curse us....if they remain alive
-CNNSUX said - My sentiments exactly!
-DEUSVULT said - Oh thats positively ridiculous! America is here to stay, and America changed the world as we know it! In a good way...eventually....... ( and yes, they made a few mistakes )
Grow up! Get some Balls! Islam is NEVER going to wipe out America or Europe or the World- we are too strong..... in so many ways.
The West lives on ........ and the proof has been proven many times......... Wake up !
And if it ever came to war....? The West has the technical ability to wipe out Islam forever.. that is.... *if* .... Moslems want to take it that far (and many of them do). It's important to be confidant! It's important to be Brave.... Our governments are the ones that are being silly, not us........ they fail us......
Stay Strong!
-CARPEDIADEM said - The West may have the technical ability to wipe out Islam, but it refuses to recognise the danger and the nature of that cult and I'm afraid that our interest in coexistence will nullify any urge we have to preserve, and protect ourselves.
The West is far too eager to be seen as "nice", much too eager for votes of the Islamic swarm, especially on the "Left", and too greedy for the oil money being swallowed up by the universities.
It is not about power or weapons, Deus Vult, it is about recognition and will.
The US voted for an idiot. It wanted change. It got it.
Instead of strength for America, it got a toady who loves your country's enemies instead of being proud to protect its freedoms.
-BEUKENDAALMASON said - No offense to you and harvard69 but this has happened before. Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were both appeased for a long time before much of Europe and the US reacted. Germany had developed better weapons (tanks, planes, subs) then the Allies and had one of the largest and most powerful armies.
The Islamist/Jihadist forces do not possess any of what Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan had (except propaganda).
I hope that the "sleeping giant" will awake long before millions are killed, long before the "war forever" and "racial (religious) supremacy" ideologues (islamists/jihadists) can gain traction. Time will tell and we must believe in Lincoln's quote "we must believe that right makes might".
-NOPCHERE said - "It is a case where Muslim leaders can wave some money in front of the "best politicians that money can buy", and our politicians jump for the money. (Some politicians excluded, of course.)"
END of first part of my record of original comments thread for this article - dda.
Second part of original comments for this article:
JOEBLOUGH said - (quoting) "Fatah will continue to sacrifice victims until ..." we get what we want ..."
Can you spell ... H-U-M-A-N ... S-A-C-R--I-F-I-C-E ... C-U-L-T ?
Is there some part of this that is the least bit unclear?
We want blah, blah and the way to get it is to "sacrifice victims". And we'll keep doing it till it finally works ... because that's how the world works. So that's what we'll do.
Could they possibly have made their approach to life and the core of their belief system any more obvious and clear?
Believe your eyes.
-SORROW said - The New Aztecs?
-CHICAGOTRANCE said - The Aztecs were more civilized, had higher moral values.
-JOEBLOUGH said - Something along thoses lines. Difference in cultural style and emphasis though.
I don't know much about Aztec philosophy or ideology.
There's some good material on the subject of human sacrifice in the classic The Golden Bough by Scottish anthropologist Sir James George Frazer (1854–1941).
The mohammedan sacrifice cult is one of history's more blood thirsty rapacious specimens. The slaughter of India in ages past reached casualty counts worthy of the modern industrial age using nothing but swords, spears and bows.
Mohammed the exemplary holy marauder is also a historically unique phenomenon.
But there are surely cross-cultural constants in human sacrifice cults.
-SORROW said - The Aztecs did use subject tribes as sources for their sacrificial victims. Individualswereincluded as part of the tribute expected from subjugated tribes. Can you say jizya?
FINDALIS said - I think the Israelis should now say: "Bring it on!" Then proceed to clean the land of them instead.
ICESTAR said - Well he got one thing right. Muslims are the first victims of Islam. The rest of us are next.
Jerusalem belongs to the Jewish people. That abomination needs to be leveled so the temple can be re built.
-SORROW said - It sounds like they want more than "East Jerusalem" by a long shot.
-DEUSVULT said - Uh...... they want the world?
-SORROW said - Whatever their claws can grasp.
WELLINGTON said - "Touches upon the fundamental reason for much of the discord and tragedy in the Middle East even before Israel was born and that is the complete unwillingness by Arab Muslims and the Muslim world at large to tolerate any kind of Jewish state in what was once part of the dar-al-Islam.
No Israel is the only true solution the Arab Muslim world seeks and anyone maintaining otherwise is guilty of ignorance or mendacity.
This isn't just about Jerusalem. It's not even confined to the existence of all of Israel.
At bottom is the profoundly anti-Semitic nature of Islam and its desire to keep Jews in their place, a very subservient place, whenever Islam can.
Shame on Islam for this and shame on Muslims for adhering to an ideology that is as anti-Semitic as was Nazism."
END of second part of original comments thread for this article.
Third part of my record of original comments for this article:
HUGH (Hugh Fitzgerald) said -
The members of Fatah are, like the rest of the local Arabs who were carefully renamed the "Palestinian people" after the Six-Day War, Muslims.
They believe in Islam -- save for a handful of tame and collaborationist islamochristians (Naim Ateek, Bishop Michel Sabbag, Hanan Ashrawi, and others of that dismal ilk), and believe that it is an outrage, an offense against justice and nature and Allah, that Infidels -- and the despised Jews at that -- now live on land once ruled by Muslims.
It is, in fact, the land, and who possesses it, and not what happens to the local Arabs, who are merely to be used as a propagandistic weapon in order to destroy, quickly or slowly, the Infidel nation-state and either kill, or drive out, or push back into the dhimmi condition the Jews who resurrected their anceitn commonwealth, and whose successes, far from being the cause of admiration among the Arabs and Muslims, are a constant source of fury and humiliation, akin to Iago's envy of Othello ("He hath a daily beauty in his life that makes mine ugly").
Fatah consists of the old Arafat henchmen, such as Mahmoud Abbas, pretending because he wears suits that his past life was not soaked in blood, putting on an act as a "technocrat" to be confused with Fayyad -- this "nobody-here-but-us-accountants" mien is put on for the Westerners, especially when it is time to ask for handouts, received as by right, as a kind of Jizyah, which does not prompt any gratitude.
But Abbas and that practiced liar Saeb Erekat, and Mahmoud Dahlan, and all the rest, have outdone themselves during the last few days, assuring their own audiences that they are just as vicious, just as cruel, just as uncompromising, as the members of Hamas, but because they can produce a slightly different patter for the outside worl, likely to be more successful. Were one simply to truthfully report on what they say -- and not leave it up to such sites as www.Memri.org, anyone would be able to see that the only differences between the Slow Jihadists of Fatah and the Fast Jihadists of Hamas are questions of tactics and timing. And the performance this week suggests that on timing, the two are not as far apart as one might have hoped.
Many Israelis, having again and again been taken in by the Arabs, again and again made prepsterous and dangerous deals which only they, the Israelis, honored, have at long last come to understand that the war being made on them is prompted by, is explained by, the texts and tenets and attitudes of Islam.
That's a big improvement. That may save them -- just.
But now they need to openly declare that understeanding, and Netanyahu and others can, in clever ways, show that this is their understanding, and convey it to the Americans and others, especially in the now-imperilled countries of Western Europe, that also face a menace, from Muslims internally, that will not go away, and to which there is no "solution": save that of working to diminish the size of the threat, in ways little and big.
It simply will not do to silently recognize the threat, and not to dare to mention it, for fear of offending someone. It has to be discussed.
What is in the Qur'an and Hadith and Sira have to be forced on the consciousness of those who presume to protect and instrcut in other countries, and who dare to put pressure on Israel based on policies that make no sense, but are the product of wilful ignorance about Islam.
That the current American government, by its statements (such as that by Obama in Cairo, or Brennan the other day in Washington) has no real understanding of Islam, and follows policies that continue to squander our resources -- men, money, materiel -- in a dizzying fashion, instead of sitting down, reading, thinking, figuring out what Islam inculcates, what assumptions it is perfectly rational and legitimate to make, therefore, about those who call themselves Muslims, and what we can do to divide and demoralize and weaken the Camp of Islam,
as we work to strengthen our non-Muslim allies most threatened -- in Israel and in Western Europe,
and work, in our immigration policy,
to avoid repeating the experience of Western Europe,
avoid the dangers that they, alas, have not over the past few decades been heedless of, and in that heedlessness, brought about a condition, for themselves, that makes the lives of non-Muslim indigenes far more unpleasant, expensive, and physically dangerous -- with no conceivable hope of large-scale "integration" of those who take their Islam seeriously -- than would otherwise be the case.
We must learn from their example what not to do.
-ISLAMMACHTFREI said - (quoting Hugh) "It is, in fact, the land, and who possesses it..."
"Israel's problem is that it won a series of **defensive** wars, in which the vanquished have scant little to complain about (since they were the aggressors) yet it has failed, indeed refused to assert its victories.
By that I mean it has allowed the defeated Arabs to remain both as citizens of Israel itself as as squatters in the West Bank and Gaza.
Those people, as a consequence of their deluded and incompetent attacks on Israel, should have been permanently removed to Syria, Iraq, S.A.... whereever.
This "we won but you didn't lose" business is the source of unending encouragement to the Islamic world that indeed it will win in the end, that 1948 and 1967 were mere battles, minor temporary setbacks, but that the final outcome - their victory - is inevitable. 9/11 and our misguided response (letting S.A. get off scott free) further validated that view.
They understand only one thing - raw, in-your-face merciless power, and until they get a serious dose of that, nothing will give them pause to rethink their hegemonistic view of history and of the future."
END of third part of my record of original comments for this article.
Fourth and final part of my record of the original comments to this article.
SALEEMSMITH said - There is no such thing as a Palestinian to those who know their history and the real facts of Islam.
Just as there is no such thing as a Muslim. Muhammad was not a Muslim. Islam is a fraud. Muhammad was a severely ill charlatan who committed mass murder and numerous other crimes. Muhammad has betrayed his followers.
Muslims ought to relieve themselves of the disgusting fraud of Muhammads Islam and live their own lives. Islam in totality is more harmful than any other lie known to man.
DAGW said - I'm just right sick of these folks. If a giant rock fell from space and squished 'em all, I'd probably laugh a bit and then carry on with the rest of my life without thinking about Muslims ever again.
ALKIDYA said - I recognize the state of Israel based on the descriptions from "The Book", not from 1967 or 1949 but from 830 BC. when King David united the kingdoms of Judah and Israel.
Israel's sphere of influence controlled Philistia, Moab, Edom, Ammon, with a number of Aramaean city-states (Aram-Zobah and Aram-Damascus) becoming vassal states; the imperial border stretched from the Mediterranean Sea to the Arabian Desert, from the Red Sea to the Euphrates River.
Give that back to Israel. It was theirs, once upon a time.
CARPEDIADEM said - These "people" are disgusting.
Their supporters more so.
DUHSWAMI said - (quoting) "Fatah will continue to sacrifice victims...
That is a very strange statement...The word that makes it strange is 'victim'...
How can those who sacrifice their lives for Allah, be victims?
And if the victims are the enemy, how is that a sacrifice?
The words may be confusing, but the intent is clear...They will keep attacking and killing until they get what they want...which is everything...
SEYMOURPAINE said - If as it seems that Fatah makes sovereignty over all of Jerusalem as a line in the sand demand, this is an excellent development. Imagine how difficult the position of Israelis would be if the Palis were peace-loving concessionists (or at least appeared to be). By making a demand that probably even Obama won't back, makes it all the easier for Israel to ignore the Palis, which it should.
HOURGLASSF said - Fatah, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigrade - why different names for virtually the same shit?
PLAYASURF said - "anyone with half a brain will realise that jerusalem under israeli control is vastly more fair and pen thsan under islamic control. from 1948 til 1967 after the liberation of jerusalem from arab/UN hands (yes, jeruslamen was "meant to be under UN control" jews were not allowed at all to pray at their holiest site, the wailing wall. Now jews, muslims, and christians can worship as they please. lets not go back to the segregated, racist and biased days of 1948. It should be clear to all."
END of my record of original comments to this article - dda.