Geert Wilders, an international champion of free speech, is barred from Britain, but a Jew-hating Islamic supremacist is just fine with UK authorities. Absurd Britannia Alert: "Anti-Semitic Saudi chief imam feted in London: Senior cleric of Mecca's Grand Mosque speaks at East London Mosque," from Peter Tatchell, Green Party parliamentary candidate for Oxford East, August 4 (thanks to Pamela):
Despite his sectarian, racist incitements that Jews are "scum...rats...pigs and monkeys," the chief cleric of the Grand Mosque in Mecca, Sheikh Abdul Rahman al Sudais, has been welcomed and invited to preach at the East London mosque in Whitechapel tonight, Tuesday evening, 4 August 2009.Al-Sudais, who has close ties to the Saudi elite, has also insulted Christians and Hindus, referring disparagingly to Christians as "cross-worshippers" and Hindus as "idol worshippers".
He has been banned from Canada for his anti-Semitism.
The chairman of the East London mosque is Muhammad Abdul Bari. He is also the leader of the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB).
Although the MCB has condemned anti-Semitism, it has previously declined to criticise the anti-Semitism of al-Sudais and has continued to support him despite his anti-Jewish tirade.
"Al-Sudais has stoked religious sectarianism and anti-Jewish racism. He has never expressed any regret," said human rights campaigner, Peter Tatchell, who is urging the East London mosque and the MCB to publicly condemn al-Sudais's "shameful prejudice."
"As a condition for him being allowed to preach, the East London mosque and MCB should insist that al-Sudais apologise for his anti-Semitism and publicly state his opposition to hatred, discrimination and violence against Jewish people.
"The East London mosque received $US1m from the Saudis towards its new London Muslim Centre. The mosque's links to Saudi Arabia go back many years, according to the BBC.
"I don't understand why the Home Secretary is allowing al-Sudais into Britain, given that similar hate preachers have been banned. Is it because of the close business links between the British and Saudi establishments? " queried Mr Tatchell.
"Al-Sudais was appointed imam of the Grand Mosque by the royal leaders of the pro-western Saudi dictatorship. His continuing tenure as chief imam is a damning indictment of the Saudi regime's toleration of anti-Semitism.
"I am surprised that the Jewish community in Britain has not kicked up a big fuss about him coming to Britain," said Mr Tatchell....
Tatchell has many quotes from Al-Sudais establishing his antisemitism.
Re-posting, from my archives, what I kept of the original discussion prompted by this article, while we were still using IntenseDebate.
I will divide it into parts, as there were many comments.
Part one.
DADCITO said - The choice is ever clearer: Do something and learn to live with oil at $500 a barrel or do nothing and see western civilization bred out of existence.
Since "capitalists never look beyond the next day", our leaders will undoubtedly opt for temporal pleasures (and reelection), leaving our children and grandchildren to fight for their very existence or suffer greatly under the hateful jackboot of Nazism, er Islam.
NOPCHERE said - (quoting posted article) "Despite his sectarian, racist incitements that Jews are "scum...rats...pigs and monkeys," the chief cleric of the Grand Mosque in Mecca, Sheikh Abdul Rahman al Sudais, has been welcomed and invited to preach at the East London mosque in Whitechapel tonight, Tuesday evening, 4 August 2009."
I hope the British people are proud of their "British" justice as exemplified by acceptance of Sheikh Rahman and the barring of Geert Wilders. The British system of justice has been a model of the world for many many centuries and now it has died.
WELLINGTON said -
Geert Wilders, champion of freedom and one who values the best in the Western tradition, denied entrance to Britain.
Al-Sudais, one who has no understanding of freedom and who spews hatred, allowed into Britain.
The double standard is egregious-------and stupid. Shame on the British government for this. Imagine what Churchill would say were he still here.
-KAFFIRKANUCK said to WELLINGTON - Probably something to this effect:
"He looked at foreign affairs through the wrong end of a municipal drainpipe"
-On Neville Chamberlain
-CIVILUSDEFENDUS said - Geert is our Churchill, someone give him the reins!
-DUMBLEDORESARMY told CIVILUSDEFENDUS - And I happen to know, from having read numbers of his speeches, that Geert admires, and has read the writings of, both Sir Winston Churchill *and* that fiery Italian Resister of Jihad, the late great Oriana Fallaci. He has studied, and believed, what both of them had to say about Islam. I would say he is Churchill's man, and Oriana's knight.
SAXONLANDS said - Another example of the hypocrasy and double standards of this government.
I cant wait for next years elections! LABOUR - BURN IN HELL!!
DOGWITHOUTSLIPPERS said- And so is Savage [STILL BANNED] - who are they afraid of offending? Muslims?
SKEP155 said - Its also worth noting that Tatchell is a prominent gay rights campaigner and what many on here would define as a liberal. So i'd appreciate it if we had less snide comments in future articles that relate to gay rights or liberalism, such as "omg teh gays never say anything about muslim homophobia!" or "omg those damn liberals never reprimand muslims".
-SAXONLANDS said - Actually, I do say god damn those liberals. Its because of them were in this pickle in the first place. And if we dont chuck them out of government soon, its all going to be over in a generation or two!
But anyway, Kudos to Tatchell for taking the red pill!
-BOSTONPATRIOT said - skep155,
If the majority of the "left" strongly opposed Islamic totalitarianism, the phrase "Eurabia" would never have come into existence.
Muslims didn't invade the west by means of violent incursion: they were invited in with open arms, financially subsidized and catered to by the post-Christian, secular leftist, multicultural elites who were at the helm of the western societies.
Now, I welcome the day those on the left finally see the light about the true nature of Islam, but the reality is that so far it's been a tiny minority of those on the left that have seen Islam as a threat to the west---indeed, the majority of those on the left have actively sided with the Islamic forces threatening the west, branding most of us on this forum as racists, fascists, Islamophobes, xenophobes, and that all-encompassing term of denigration: "right wing extremists."
-WELLINGTON said - Well said, BP. Yes, there are many conservatives who don't properly understand Islam yet but most of the damage done to the West so far has been accomplished via Left-think---------multiculturalism, political correctness, shame of one's heritage, self-loathing, historical ignorance, etc. And the Left still doesn't get it. Finally, I would be willing to bet that respecting those in the West who do understand the Islamic threat, the vast majority would be those with conservative, not liberal, leanings.
ASPACIA said - There is no Britain anymore. Geez, and I am 1/4 Brit. and 14 Scot. This sickens me!
-DUMBLEDORESARMY said - Aspacia - you are British? The Island of the Mighty is not dead, it is just sleeping. Pray that the great bronze bell in Arthur's Cave may ring, and wake the sleepers in time.
Tatchell is not the only one standing up to be counted. There are others out there...I've been keeping track. They need encouragement, and further education...and then you may find that Arthur's Knights are riding into battle.
EASTVIEW said - Echoing Wellington above, I say shame on the British Government for allowing this. I hope the good citizens of Britain can find it in themselves to fix what is clearly wrong here. But it will be shame on the British people if they do not elect a government that puts a stop to this madness. We know they're working on it, but their friends are starting to become very concerned for them. And time's awasting.
-REACHER said - Eastview, It's very difficult here in Britain, our media will never comment on these Radical scum so by the time we find out they are even here its a fait accompli. e.g. I only found out about this here on Jihad Watch, one if the reasons I treasure this site.
-DUMBLEDORESARMY asked - Reacher - if I may ask - how did you discover 'jihadwatch' in the first place?
I came to it by a very roundabout route - I am a fan of the French writer Jacques Ellul, I was googling to find out whether his book on Israel was still in print; that landed me in Bat Yeor's website, since she refers to Ellul; and Bat Yeor links to here. So Ellul got me to Bat Yeor who got me to Robert Spencer.
MCLARKE said - Unfortunately that's the thing about free speech. You don't always like or agree with the other guy's opinion. I don't think you should start barring people for their ideas no matter how offensive.
If he spews hate while he's there he should be charged with a hate crime (legislation exists in Canada where I'm writing from....I assume also in Britain). But it's better to have these guys out in the open where everyone can see where what they stand for and how ridiculous and anachronistic they really are.
If you shut them up, you just send them underground where they're arguably more dangerous.
Fundamentalists of any religious stripe would have us all back in the Dark Ages. It's just not going to happen.
-EASTVIEW said - It's not free speech that's the issue here.
It's the double standard employed by the British government.
People like Geert Wilders, an elected Dutch parliamentarian, and Michael Savage, a conservative American talk show host, are barred from entry on the spurious grounds that they promote "hate,"
while the incomparably more influential "chief cleric of the Grand Mosque in Mecca," who demonstrably does promote hate, is allowed in.
This double standard is glaringly apparent to anyone with eyes. And we also know with virtual certainty what group is behind the pushing of this double standard.
-NOPCHERE added - I totally agree.
Also, grouping religious fundamentalists with Muslims is incorrect and makes for a false argument.
-EASTVIEW said to NOPCHERE - I wonder if there is a proper name for the tactic of bringing in non-representative examples to make false arguments of equivalences like this. One sees it used often enough that one would suspect there is a common name for it. "Argument using false equivalence" sounds about right, but somehow this seems weak. There must be a nifty Latin name for it similar to "quid pro quo" or "tu quoque" that would lend it heft Anyone? Hugh?
-SORROW said to EASTVIEW - It is the use of false analogies to make one's point. We see that with some lumping all religions together as evil.
Also, it is a tactic to induce someone to agree that one thing is as bad (if it is bad at all) as another.
Sheikh Abdul Rahman al Sudais is not comparable to a mainstream Evangelical Christian who opposes gay marriage.
It really trivializes serious issues as much as leftists who tosses epithets like Nazi or Fascist at their opponents.
-JETCAL said - I wonder who provides more political donations to British politicos?
A. Geert Wilders
B. Michael Savage
C. Saudi Arabians
D. British Jews
-MCLARKE said - Well it is free speech that's the issue. I understand it's a double standard, but two wrongs don't make a right.
____It isn't right to bar Geert Wilders or Michael Savage any more than it is Al Sudais.
If free speech was being upheld there'd be no double standard. (Back to earlier argument about shining light on the cockroaches of the world)____
As for religious fundamentalists, perhaps it's semantics but Muslim is a religion and the Islamic radicals are using fundamental intrepretations of the Koran in much the same way that say fundamentalist Christians deny gay rights.
___Extreme religious views have throughout history caused a lot of problems.
-EASTVIEW said to MCLARKE - Ah, yes, the old "moral equivalence" argument. No, two wrongs don't make a right, as you say. But with all respect, your invocation of this mantra suggests that you really do view this as little more than an exercise in semantics. I would point out that it is precisely the kind of false analogy that you just employed that provides cover for those who are guilty of actually carrying out human rights abuses, as opposed to those who merely espouse them. Big difference. You equate fundamentalist Islam and fundamentalist Christian views on gay rights. But one of them not only would "deny" gays rights, but it also actively condones killing gays. You know as well as I which one this is.
The fundamental flaw in the "moral equivalence" argument (there are others, as well) is that it lacks a metric that tells you that merely preaching against homosexualism is not the same as hanging gays, and the absence of such a metric gives people free rein to issue such statements. Just because something is called "money" does not mean that a dollar in your pocket is equivalent to a million dollars in the bank. So it is with statements about "fundamentalism."
-MCLARKE said - With all due respect, you're arguing for the sake of argument...and splitting hairs to boot. You coin the term "moral equivalence" to dismiss my defense of free speech without even addressing it.____And you know as well as I do that I'm not equating Christian and Islamic fundamentalism. They're clearly not the same thing, BUT I was pointing out their extremist relationship.____As I said before allowing people to speak their minds barring the commission of a hate crime (free speech) regardless of how odious their positions would effectively negate the double standard to which you refer.____I stand by my position on free speech and you of course are entitled to your opinion.
-DUMBLEDORESARMY said to MCLARKE - "So, if you are a UK citizen, I assume that in the name of free speech you would be prepared to write a letter to the PM demanding that the ban on Geert Wilders' visiting the UK, be rescinded?
When you have done so, please report back here and let us know whether you got a response."
END of first part of my copy of comments originally made to article.
Second part of my copy of comments originally made to this article.
DARKPAW said - I hate my country right now. What a minor player in the human race we have become.
-CIVILUSDEFENDUS told DARKPAW - Make a statement to your government, your local paper your neighbor. Let folks know there is dissent from this suicidal path. Will it help? I don't know, but it might make you feel better - and it might empower someone else.
-EPISTEMOLOGY told DARKPAW - Please don't. The UK is a wonderful country, the Brits have got a great sense of humour, think of Monty Python for instance. Keep going and take care
-EASTVIEW said - Please know, darkpaw, that we are all on your side and are pulling for you. Be of good cheer, keep your chin up, continue the good fight. British history is replete with instances of coming from behind to defeat aggressors. Drake's defeat of the the Spanish Armada in 1588. Wellington's defeat of Napoleon at Waterloo in 1815. The role of Britain in bringing down not only the Kaiser, but with him the Ottoman Empire during World War I. Your magnificent resistance in the early days of World War II that stymied Hitler's sweep over Europe and ultimately led to his defeat. There are other examples too numerous to mention. We know about these, and have not forgotten. The leadership in both our countries may be a little slow in getting their focus on the problem at hand, but the correlation of forces (one of those horrible Soviet terms that actually is useful) is in your favor. So hold on. Never give up. You have friends.
BEAUTYOFREASON said - So Geert Wilders can't enter, Michael Savage can't enter, but this jihad loving scum bag can?
I went to the UK once. It was beautiful - it had a rich history - the churches, the statues, Westminster Abbey, the tomb of Queen Elizabeth. I'm so sorry to see that country go to waste. I doubt it will last 50 years at this rate.
I can see why people vote for the BNP now. At least they seem to "get it" on preserving British culture.
BEYONDTHESPIN {Mohammedan spinmeister} said (of the Imam) - A blessed man, beautiful voice and wondrous style of reciting the words of the God of Moses, Isa (aka Jesus) Muhammad SAW and everything else that is in existence .
I have heard everything that he said about Jews, Christians and Hindus, and all his derogatory comments were to the segments of those people who were, in one-way or another, attacking Muslims. Most notably; USA, Israel and India.
Now ask yourselves, is what he has said about those engaged in war against Muslims any less insulting than what American soldiers, commanders and public say about those America is invading and occupying?
-BOSTONPATRIOT replied - Aha!--I've finally figured out who beyondthespin is: the former Iraqi Minister of Information!:
-SUSANP answered - (quoting beyondthespin) 'A "blessed man"'?!!!! This man is a demon, a semi-human piece of garbage. What have American soldiers , commanders, and public said about the war-torn islamic cesspits they were sent to because the people are savages? We have been fighting a politically correct war since it all began, AFTER MUSLIMS ATTACKED US. Maybe you don't remember 9/11. Maybe you didn't know about the terrorist training camps in Afghanistan where the pigs that flew planes into NY trained for their mission. Islamic clerics are the scum of the earth, the inciters, instigators and enablers of terrorism. They inculcate their moronic zombies with hate for non-muslims and send them out to kill and wreak havoc. They should all be silenced, permanently.
Maybe when muslims decide to leave the Dark Ages and join the 21st century, their precious hellholes will not be invaded and "occupied". Do you think our troops want to be in those Godforsaken wastelands teeming with muslim fanatics who live to kill and inflict misery on their fellow human beings? Do you think they enjoy fighting with one hand tied behind their backs, afraid to defend themselves for fear a precious muslim civilian will be killed? Muslims have invaded America and Europe voluntarily so if we're so horrible, why do they flock to our countries in droves? We loathe them and don't want them here, but they keep coming anyway.
-PIMP supported SUSANP - correct and this scumbag doesn't mention the fact that the muslims in India have been responsible for over 80,000 people being killind in Kashmir alone, and the ethnic cleansing of the kashmir valley of hindus and sikhs.
-JETCAL answered BEYONDTHESPIN {in rest of this copy of the discussion, designated as SPIN - dda, editing} - BTS:
"On 19 April 2002 in Mecca, ....al-Sudais is recorded as echoing Nazi anti-Jewish propaganda, with openly racist caricatures of Jewish people:
"Yesterday's Jews are evil predecessors and today's Jews are worse successors...They are...the worst of mankind. Allaah cursed them and cast His wrath upon them. He turned some of them to monkeys and pigs and worshippers of creatures... History of Jews is full of deception, trickery, rebellion, oppression, evil and corruption. They always seek to cause mischief on the earth and Allaah loves not the mischief-makers...They always think of betrayal and trick; and injustice and aggression run in their veins. They want only corruption and harming others."
http://www.alharamainsermons.org/eng/modules.php?...
Please provide quotes to back up your statement of:
"is what he has said about those engaged in war against Muslims any less insulting than what American soldiers, commanders and public say about those America is invading and occupying?"
I await your reply.
-SPIN replied {providing links to Muslim agitprop videos, which links did not copy} - Question is how many of you people actually have the sincerity of the morality (you claim) to watch these videos? You all claim not to be fascist or racist and only concerned with equality, freedom and goodness then only a fascist whose eyes is closed will ignore the other sides perspective.
Much Much More available, if you seek you shall find. Babies turned to charcoal and or limbs torn off, most US parents have held their children's hand, but how many have done so while the child's torso is on the other side of the road? So much showing a reality that puts the awful events of 9/11 into perspective.
-JETCAL answered - I have seen these before, except for the last one which I can't access. I do not deny there have been abuses.
I will repeat what I have said before, the veracity of some of these tapes are quite questionable and others have been misrepresented.
The bombing of the 30 civillians has been investigated by the Iraqi government....turned out these folks had been ratted out by some of their fellow Iraqi citizens and had been chased out of their IED factory.
As far as the number 2 link, I am not a combat vet, but after having put [out] large fires with secondary explosions, and then picking body parts and putting them in bags,
I understand fear and don't mock it. Do you truly understand fear? The folks in that clip seemed mighty normal to me.
And BTW, I make none of these claims: "be fascist or racist and only concerned with equality, freedom and goodness"
All I is want no Sharia law in my country, and for Muslims to live here and obey the same rule of law. I could careless about what other people do in their own countries.
Now read this part very carefully
If Saddam had never invaded Kuwait in 1990
If Saddam had not played games with the UN inspectors for 8 years
The excuses that Bush needed WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE.
CHAMP said - beholdthebullshit --
Muhammad was not a "blessed man", nor was he a blessing to mankind. Instead he was accursed, and his lies have been a curse to humanity. Ironically, you are the one who is 'beyondthespin', so what a fitting moniker you've chosen. Sorry, but your bull & lies are not big enough to cover up this man's evil sins, and anyone with 1/2 a brain knows that Muhammad was evil -- not blessed. What a ridiculous assertion.
-EPISTEMOLOGY supported CHAMP - Congrats Champ, beholdthebullshit, that's a very good name for that moron. His moniker is really not the right one. Forget about the crap he's spitting out, he's only one of these bloody anti-Semitic, anti-Western Mohammedans who can't cope with the fact that our Judeo-Christian culture is superior to their barbarian way of life.
-DREWBENSTEIN supported CHAMP - You go Lady!!!
-SPIN told EPISTEMOLOGY - Compare and contrast my posts and evidence to your babble masquerading as debate. Lol, if an impartial was to judge.
Thats was to epistemology
-PIMP told SPIN - the islamists use a lot of false, faked, and unverified pictures and videos galvanize their islamic base. in addition the muslims are not above using pictures an dvideos of their victims as proof of the infidal persecution. the muslims are very easy to turn into hateful murderous mobs at the very mention of being somehow victimized by the infidals anywhere in the world.
-ODYESSUS asked SPIN - What occupation are you angry about? Constantinople?
-AZOV told SPIN - Your religion was obsolete even as Mohammed invented it. Mohammed's time may have been a few tens of thousands of years ago when hyena-like packs of primitive apes roamed the desert, not knowing how to produce anything, only how to kill somebody.
You're a bug in human history.
Jews, Christians and Hindus, are the ones that know you best for exactly what you are, that's why you hate them most.
You're mainly accusing everybody of the crime of defending themselves against the horrors of Islam. Those who know you best, are the most guilty, and you wish their death first.__
You're going to the dumpster, Arab or whatever you may be, one way or the other.__Just so you know I know, and I'm no Jew, no Christian and no Hindu. So you know people are waking up, and there is no room for Islam on the Earth, and nowere in the Universe for that matter. You will be cornered and made to eat the dust, you morons. Your lies are no more than windows into your black handicapped souls that need to be put to sleep and out of your misery.
-PIMP answered AZOV - "you are very correct.. we need more muhammed cartoons, we need more anti islamic websites, we need more exmuslims speaking out, we need more geerts, more hughs, spencers and so on. lets keep the muslims hopping and go insane with hate. hopefully they will burn down their respective countries of porkiestan sowdy arabia, sowdamn, and so on."
END of second part of my copy of original comments to article.
Part three of my copy of comments originally made to this article.
EPISTEMOLOGY said - (quoting article) "Al-Sudais was appointed imam of the Grand Mosque by the royal leaders of the pro-western Saudi dictatorship."
The Saudis are by no means pro-Western, they only make business with the West, that's very convenient. They hate the West and most of all they hate Jews.
Anti-Semitism is deeply rooted in Islam.
On all Saudi job ads abroad you'll find the friendly advice "No Jews need apply".
BEYONDTHESPIN said - Question is how many of you people actually have the sincerity of the morality (you claim) to watch these videos? You all claim not to be fascist or racist and only concerned with equality, freedom and goodness then only a fascist whose eyes is closed will ignore the other sides perspective.
Troops fighting with one hand tied behind their backs? You mean like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_mDt7RV5h0
or compare with this, mans true nature is revealed in moments of uncertainty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rRrZlYN2xw
Words from an ex US soldier, note the profile of army recruits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwwMF6biCJU
Indiscriminate and cowardly bombing, what difference between this and a suicide bombing? [BIG DIFF]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AXN3H3BPQU
On a lighter humerous note, but still says a lot about the mindset of people given arms and a license to kill.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtnnbn3s71A
Chemical and biological weapons used on civilians [LIKE S HUSSEIN DID TO THE KURDS AND THE EGYPTIANS TO THE YEMENIS?].
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_F_jHXBGHc
More
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIJlJkJE7go
Much Much More available, if you seek you shall find. Babies turned to charcoal and or limbs torn off, most US parents have held their children's hand, but how many have done so while the child's torso is on the other side of the road? So much showing a reality that puts the awful events of 9/11 into perspective.
-AZOV replied - Isn't it a Muslim habit to fight between their wives and children ? So the bullets from the enemy hits women and children as much as possible ?__
You don't qualify for perverts, much less for people.
What the Nazis, your friends, did, was not near that filthy. When they fought, they never put their women and children in the line of fire, so they could parade their bodies to the media. That's just the Muslim way, that makes Muslims dishonorable fighters.
Why do I say fighters ? Muslims are not fighters but assassins. That is drugged murderers. Drugged on Islam that takes their brains out and replaces it with the murderous ramblings of Mohammed. No thinking here, only the Koran here.
-SPIN replied - Yours words, hatred, and disregard for the lives and suffering of people, other then those you deem your own, says a lot about you and complements the videos I posted. Videos which I doubt you watched as fascist do not see others as human, as you have already pointed out.
-BEAUTYOFREASON answered BEYONDTHESPIN - Whatever moron. Your love of an Islamic supremacist tells me all I need to know about your so-called values. Begone.
-SPIN replied - Easy to point the finger, blame others, and say their the bad guys or the screwed one, and act like your shit smells of roses on a forum where everyone agrees with you. Much harder to debate it with fact, logic, and evidence, even harder when one of the others turns up and throws everything back you and proves his point!!!!
Alaykum
-BEAUTYOFREASON told SPIN - No, I just don't feel like wasting my time with you, or anyone with sympathy for jihadists. As I said - begone.
- SPIN said - As for fighting between wives and children:
When you attack towns and cities its easy to discredit the resistance by those slurs. BUT, anyone with half a brain (which is half more than you posses) realises they have no choice but to fight........ OK, I will say it in gagag gogo for you to understand. If I attack and invade your home, (lets say hypathetically you have a wife and children.... I know in reality you don't [WRONG] and never will [CURSE, LIE] but bare with me for a second)... so I attack your home and again hypocritically you defend..... (yes I know in reality your a cowards [INSULT] but please bare with me and stop interrupting).... so you defend and then I shoot your entire family does that mean you used them as shields and was at fault for their deaths?
-DREWBENSTEIN said to BEYONDTHESPIN - You are illiterate.
-SPIN replied [re-posting its comment] - As for fighting between wives and children:
When you attack towns and cities through mass bombings and trigger happy criminals (go to jail in US, or go to Iraq and do what we would jail you for doing in the US) its easy to discredit the resistance by those slurs. BUT, anyone with half a brain (which is half more than you posses) realises they have no choice but to fight........ OK, I will say it in gagag gogo for you to understand. If I attack and invade your home, (lets say hypathetically you have a wife and children.... I know in reality you don't and never will but bare with me for a second)... so I attack your home and again hypocritically you defend..... (yes I know in reality your a coward but please bare with me and stop interrupting).... so you defend and then I shoot your entire family does that mean you used them as shields and was at fault for their deaths?
-SAXONLANDS told SPIN - All of those you brought upon yourselves. War is heck, so if you cant stomach it, dont start it.
But I suppose no sacrifice is to great for the global caliphate right?
-SPIN said - Yes, the unification of Muslim lands, and removal of corrupt, despot royal families are things I seek to see. What difference between that an the uniting of 50 states to form the USA?
-ZONIEKAFIR told SPIN - But BS. We don't like this because the Caliphate ran roughshod over all their surrounding nations and were a bunch of cruel imperialists who justified their evil deeds by calling it islam. Thus the hatred for islam, it doesn't all start from this blog you know, and the resistance to another Caliphate. Sykes Picot was for a reason. As dullard likes to say. Heads were cracked and cities sacked. Get over it.
nabi ZK (pbum)
-WELLINGTON told BEYONDTHESPIN (SPIN) - Everyone of the links you provided has a video which is pure propaganda, not even well done at times.
For instance, one of the videos juxtaposes American soldiers talking about the force they have to use
and severely injured Iraqi children being carried away from some fighting zone,
the implication being that Americans soldiers were responsible for this,
never mind it was almost always the cowardly way of fighting by Islamic terrorists who deliberately engaged Americans in civilian sectors which produced these tragic results.
The same kind of garbage is spewed about Israeli forces who are forced to root out terrorists who hide behind women and children.
Another example of how tendentious what you provided is is the ex-American soldier who just blathers on about how Bush lied, without giving any evidence of such.
Bush didn't lie. Every major intelligence agency on the planet thought Saddam Hussein still had WMDs.
Moreover, Bush, whether naively or not can be debated, genuinely wanted to rid the Iraqis of a brutal dictator and give them a chance for real freedom. Rubes like you say next to nothing about Saddam's atroicities on his own people (which only ended because America ended his regime) while excoriating Bush, who desired to end a savage dictatorship and give Iraqis their one shot at freedom in their entire history. Reasonable minds can debate the wisdom of Bush's endeavors in Iraq, principally because the Muslim world is arguably not worth such sacrifice by free peoples, but I have no doubt that Bush's intentions were honorable. All this and much more you have missed.
-SPIN said - Other than US sanctions that killed 500,000 Iraqi children between 1990–2000, Iraq was stable in the decade leading up to long planned invasion and occupation of Iraq and the taking control of its resources.
Bush is a hypocrite, he is not stupid, he is an evil and intelligent being that has no regards for human life. Lie after Lie after lie after lie, his genius is fooling people into thinking he was stupid. They say Barrack Obama had great PR, well I say he is the PR tool for the USA, again strategic genius. I liken it to being robbed for £50 by a mugger, or getting overcharged by £50 in a market by a smiling and likable person. Both the same, yet one leads to less resentment.
-WELLINGTON told SPIN - Sanctions didn't kill Iraqi children (by the way, they were UN sanctions, not US----you can't even get this straight).
Saddam Hussein is responsible for those deaths by cynically refusing to abide by terms by which food, medicine, etc. were to go to Iraqis. Their deaths lie squarely on him.
Fools like you then blame America. As for Bush, I had many disagreements with the previous President, but if you can't see that he is a good and decent man it just reveals what a very poor judge of character you are.
Finally, to describe Iraq as stable in the last decade of the twentieth century indicates your own instability of mind without your realizing it.
By your imbecilic standard, North Korea is a stable nation.
Oh yeah, upstairs you're already gone.
-SPIN told WELLINGTON - You obviously know nothing of the reality of Iraq from 1990-2000. And if you think the world and Iraq is a better place since the illegal invasion and occupation then you were never there to begin with my son.
-WELLINGTON answered SPIN - "I know nothing of the reality of Iraq? Huh uh.
How about the mass graves Saddam Hussein was filling up quick like? What about the rape and torture rooms? What about the Marsh Arabs and what Saddam did to them?
You make accusations with no back up. For instance, you've ranted on about how Bush lied. OK. What did he lie about? Be specific and provide evidence.
Another example is your claim that the American led invasion was illegal. No it wasn't. Under international law and UN terms, a nation that does not fulfill its obligations the way Saddam didn't allows for individual countries to use force to make certain that compliance becomes a reality. You are very factually challenged indeed.
Finally, I'm not your son."
END of third part of copy of original comments to this article.
Final part of original comments.
PULSAR observed (responding to the Muslim apologist and propagandist, 'BEYONDTHESPIN') - All this Muslim violence you see today is the same violence they have been dishing for centuries...long before America was born...try reading some books on Muslim conquests and you will see the same behaviors...the random killings, the sensless violence, smashing stores, throwing stones, intimidations, knifings, assassinations, false accusations, looting, raping, false imprisonments, ......read the history of Islam...its behavior patterns have never changed...
SHIVA said to BEYONDTHESPIN - Replying to beholdthebullshit
Just for arguments sake, lets say this incidents you point to are terror attacks, they are far out numbered by attacks made by Moslems
-SPIN replied - Not really. Civilian deaths, life changing injuries and suffering caused by the US far out numbers those caused by Muslim who happen to engage in terrorism [
-SORROW said to SHIVA - "Ask him {i.e. 'BEYONDTHESPIN'} for some figures. Also, when one is reduced to using YouTube to make a point, one is running out of material."
END of comments originally made to this article. Observe the hijacking of the entire thread by a Muslim spinmeister who deflected attention and bandwidth from the main point: the fact that the UK government which, having kowtowed to Muslim sensibilities by refusing to admit Geert Wilders into the UK, claiming that he would stir up 'hatred', then admitted into the UK, only a few months later, a rabidly antisemitic imam from Saudi Arabia.