In FrontPage this morning I discuss Eboo Patel's Washington Post blog in which he charges that the New York Times, of all people, is being dishonest about Islam -- and while making the charge, Patel himself (surprise!) is...dishonest about Islam.
In his “The Faith Divide” blog at the Washington Post’s website, Eboo Patel took umbrage Monday at two recent reviews in the New York Times Book Review charging “Dishonesty About Islam in the NYT Book Review.” Patel was angry at favorable reviews of what he called “Bruce Bawer’s alarmist book Surrender” (about which he huffed, “the subtitle says it all: Appeasing Islam, Sacrificing Freedom”) and Christopher Caldwell’s Reflections on the Revolution in Europe (which was reviewed by Fouad Ajami). Yet while making the improbable claim that the New York Times printed material that was dishonest and negative about Islam, Patel showed himself to be not a little disingenuous – suggesting that before he call these reviewers on their alleged dishonesty, he should look to his own.“Ajami,” complains Patel, “opens his piece by juxtaposing two disparate pieces of history: the departure of Spain’s last Muslim ruler in 1492, and the terrorist attacks on Madrid in 2004. ‘A circle was closed,’ Ajami writes, ‘and Islam was, once again, a matter of Western Europe.’” What is wrong with this? “The Muslim presence in medieval Spain,” asserts Patel, “is widely regarded as a time of tolerance, good government and support for the arts and education. In fact, Ajami himself wrote a positive review of one of the many books on that era, Maria Rosa Menocal’s The Ornament of the World. Placing Al-Andalus, as it was known, in the same breath as a ghastly terrorist attack - as if to say ‘Here’s what happens when Muslims are around’ - is beyond questionable. A dead fish wouldn’t want to be wrapped in a newspaper article with that level of intellectual dishonesty.”
Funny that Patel should mention Menocal. Certainly her Ornament of the World is largely responsible for the contemporary myth of a tolerant, pluralistic, proto-multicultural Al-Andalus. But even Menocal, in that very book, admits that tolerance and pluralism went only so far in Muslim Spain, which institutionalized discrimination against Jewish and Christian dhimmis:
The dhimmi, as these covenanted peoples were called, were granted religious freedom, not forced to convert to Islam. They could continue to be Jews and Christians, and, as it turned out, they could share in much of Muslim social and economic life. In return for this freedom of religious conscience the Peoples of the Book (pagans had no such privilege) were required to pay a special tax — no Muslims paid taxes and to observe a number of restrictive regulations: Christians and Jews were prohibited from attempting to proselytize Muslims, from building new places of worship, from displaying crosses or ringing bells. In sum, they were forbidden most public displays of their religious rituals. (Pp. 72-3)So much for a paradise of tolerance and multiculturalism. Historian Kenneth Baxter Wolf observes that “much of this new legislation aimed at limiting those aspects of the Christian cult which seemed to compromise the dominant position of Islam.” After enumerating a list of laws much like Menocal’s, he adds: “Aside from such cultic restrictions most of the laws were simply designed to underscore the position of the dimmîs as second-class citizens.”
Re-posting such of the original comments, made while we inhabited IntenseDebate, as I (dda) copied and kept.
Part one.
JEWLOVER said - Birthday present for the President, apologies Mr. Spencer for going OT immediately.
Obama's perfect birthday speech to Muslims.
{ROLL TELEPROMPTERS}
To the 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide, greetings and Happy Birthday to me. {LAUGHTER, APPLAUSE, CHEERS}
As you know, I've studied Islam and the Koran in detail in Indonesia, home to the world's largest Muslim population.
I know you can't doubt the Koran(2:1) and are not allowed to have non-Muslims as friends (Koran 5:51) because we are your sworn enemies (4:101).
You're lucky you're allowed Taqiyya, that is, you're allowed to lie to us (3:28, 16:106). I'm stuck with Tequila {AWKWARD SILENCE}.
Speaking of alcohol, why is alcohol a sin on earth (5:90) but a reward in heaven (37:47)? {CROWD STARTING TO GET AGITATED}
{TELEPROMPTER STOPS, FLASHES - STICK TO THE SCRIPT Mr. President}
{TELEPROMPTER ROLLS AGAIN}
You believe you are the best (3:110) and that we are the vilest of creatures deserving no mercy (98:6).
Yes, the Jews are apes (2:65/67), or as some prefer, pigs and apes (5:60). Remember, no eating pork (2:173, 5:3, 6:145, 16:115). {LAUGHTER}
You and I both know that you must terrorize non-Muslims (Koran 8:12).
I know the surest way for you to get to heaven is to kill us (9:111) and that it's not only a religious right, but a requirement (9:5).
I also know that we are forbidden from killing you (Koran 4:92).
I know that apostacy, leaving Islam is a capital offense and these people must be killed (Bukhari 4:52:260). My Indonesian school records said I'm Muslim, but now I'm a, {wink, wink} Christian. {LAUGHTER, APPLAUSE}
I know one of your favorite techniques is to behead us ( 47:4, 8:12), just like your prophet Mohammed beheaded between 600 - 900 Qurayza Jews in Medina in 627 A.D. in one day. He must have had arms of steel. {LAUGHTER, APPLAUSE}
You are masters of your women, from allowing unlimited sex slaves of non-Muslim women (4:23-24) to wife, or should I say, wives beating (4:34).
You do not discriminate regarding age, as you are allowed not only to marry, but to divorce pre-pubescent girls (65:4).
Old Mohammed, that wild thing, married his favorite child bride Aisha when he was 51 and she was 6. {CHEERS, APPLAUSE}.
He was the ideal man of course (47:21, 47:110), as he didn't deflower her until he was 54 and she was 9. {PAUSE, THINK} Hey, 54 is 6 x 9, 69. {LAUGHTER, APPLAUSE, CHEERS}
We know that only Mohammed was allowed to have as many wives as he wanted (33:50) and Allah ordered him to marry his beautiful daughter-in-law (33:50).
Although I'm not Slick Willy, that's a lot of booty.{LAUGHTER, APPLAUSE, CHEERS, ENCORE}
Which Chapter again is called Booty? Is that Chapter 4 or Chapter 8? {CROWD YELLS Chapter 8}
Yeah, Chapter 4, Booty, Women. {CROWD YELLING NO, NO, NO MR. PRESIDENT}
{TELEPROMPTER STOPS, FLASHES - Chapter 4 isn't called Booty, it's called Women. Chapter 8 is called Booty, referring to theft and robbery of non-Muslim property}
{TELEPROMPTER ROLLS AGAIN}
Speaking of relatives, how about Mohammed cursing his aunt and uncle to hell (Entire chapter 111).
Many stupid Infidels (non-Muslims) believe that Islam is peaceful because of some passages (5:32, 2:256) because they don't understand the concept of abrogation, that is, later written verses in the Koran cancel out/negate earlier written verses (2:106).
That Chapter 9, sure opens a Can of Whoop Ass on those Infidels. It's the last written chapter, canceling out all the other peaceful passages.
We know that heaven in Islam is a virtual whorehouse of regenerating virgins (Koran 37:40-48, 44:51-55, 52:17-20, 55:56-58, 70-77, 56:7-40, and 78:31).
No need for unnecessary and expensive hymen restoration surgery like here on earth. {LAUGHTER, APPLAUSE}
{TELEPROMPTER FLASHES - OUT OF TIME MR. PRESIDENT, MUST LEAVE NOW}
Well, thank you all very much and remember, there will be more speeches coming, and Happy Birthday to Me.{EXIT NOW}
{AUDIENCE SINGS HAPPY BIRTHDAY MR. PRESIDENT WITH A BURQA-CLAD MARILYN MONROE FLASHING ON BIG SCREEN}
-ABDULLAH MIKAIL said - What a hilarious crock that was.
Humorous because I know the audience here...
But absolutely false because I understand the errors in your references...
Context, it isn't everything, but it ranks up there with Oxygen...
You'll understand it in the end...
-SUSANP told ABDULLAH MIKAIL - (quoting) "You'll understand it in the end........"
Do you think muslims will understand it in the "end"? Most of them aren't as intuitive and astute as you seem to think you are, thus their gross misunderstanding of their own religion as taught to them by the venerable scholars of islam.
END OF FIRST PART OF ORIGINAL COMMENTS.
Second part of my (Dumbledoresarmy) record of the comments originally made to this article. Comprising chiefly an exchange with the Mohammedtroll, Abdullah Mikail.
IPSOFACTO said - But the facts are that Al-Andalus is an utopian myth used to promote the absurd idea of a peaceful, tolerant, prospurous, multiculturel society of Christians and Muslims is possible.
The conquest of Iberia with Portugal in 710-16 proceded along the lines of classical Jihad - with massive pillaging, slavery, deportations, and killings.
By the end of the eight century, the rulers of North Africa and Andalusia had introduced Malikism, one of the most rigorous schools of Sunni Muslim jurisprudence. Subsequently they repressed other currents of opinion in the Islamic faith.
In the mid-twentieth century, before Eurabian political correctness began to dominate historical publications, the distinguished French scolar on Andalusia, Evariste Lévy-Provencal, could write:
"The Muslim Andalusian state thus appears from its earliest origins as the defender and champion of a jealous orthodoxy, more and more ossified in blind respect for a rigid doctrine, suspecting and condemning in advance the least effort of rational speculation."
-ABDULLAH MIKAIL said to IPSOFACTO - It was the Golden Age of Judaism...it was the most propserous time in that day and age to be a Jew in Europe having more protection and freedom of commerce and culture than anywhere else...how do you nay say that fact?
And after that, explain why many of those Jews served voluntarily in the army to defend Andalus from invasion. If they were so opressed and even given the right not to serve, why on earth would they volunteer and risk their lives to defend Andalus from invasion?
Then you must follow that up with what happened once Catholics ruled again post 1492... where did 800,000 Jews go? Some were forced to flee... some remained and "enjoyed' the Inquisition.... some converted to Catholocism to get out of the "Inquisition party" that the Catholics were throwing for them... is this your "Western Idea of Freedom of Religion?"
-EPISTEMOLOGY said - Micky, why can't you admit that the golden age of Al-Andalus is a myth? There is no tolerance and freedom in Islam.
Read the lines by Evariste Lévy-Provencal whom Ipso quotes.
That guy is obviously a Jew, so he knows what he's talking about.
Why do you lecture us on our past? We know better than you what happened to our people.
The Jews had a lot to suffer under Spanish inquisition, they were murdered, expelled or turned into marranos, i.e. converted by force.
But as I already pointed out, all that wouldn't have happened, if Spain hadn't been invaded by Islamic barbarians, The Spanish were traumatised and traumatised people can do a lot of evil. Europe always rejected Islam, agsain and again, we don't want any pre-stone age customs, we are civilised.
-DUMBLEDORESARMY said to EPISTEMOLOGY - Of course the other interesting thing is this. In 1939, which region had the largest Jewish population - the majority-Christian lands, or the Islamosphere?
Even after the Shoah (which was cheered on by the Muslims, chiefly the notorious Mufti, and which was carried out by a man who despised both Christianity and Judaism, admired Islam, and who was quite probably consciously inspired by, and imitating, the Turkish Muslim genocide of the Armenians) there were *still* many more Jews inhabiting the lands of former Christendom, than could be found in the Islamosphere.
The numbers speak for themselves.
EPISTEMOLOGY observed - The story of tolerant Al-Andalus is one of the ineradicable fairy tales of our time. It's probably due to Edward Said and his book "Orientalism".
"Whatever the Christians and Jews of al-Andalus accomplished, they were still dhimmis. They enjoyed whatever rights and privileges they had not out of any sense of the dignity of all people before God, or the equality of all before the law, but at the sufferance of their Muslim overlords."
That's what I call official arbitrariness, Herrmann Göring in Nazi Germany used to say, I determine who is a Jew. One's life under tyrants always depends on their moods.
Fact is that our great philosopher Moses ben Maimon had to flee from his native Spain, otherwise he would have been killed or converted by force.
Oh, maybe I'm mistaken, Micky lectured us on conversions to Islam and Islam doesn't condone forrced conversions, there is no complusion in religion, that's what the unholy Qu'ran says.
-HESPERADO said to EPISTEMOLOGY - It's larger than Edward Said. He has had enormous influence, but he could not have had that influence had there not already been a much broader and deeper culture of PC MC in the West all around him, not only indirectly receptive to his anti-Western ideas, but in some ways already providing the substance of his "deconstruction".
As Martin Kramer put it:
“Said's Orientalism, far from bucking convention, actually rode the crest of this immensely successful academic uprising.”
-- Martin Kramer, Said’s Splash: From Ivory Towers on Sand
http://www.geocities.com/martinkramerorg/SaidSpla...
And the "academic uprising" to which he refers he described as:
...'the bitter struggle for academic hegemony in the humanities and social sciences on American campuses. As the students of the 1960s became the junior faculty of the 1970s, the academic center moved leftward. Academization translated radical political agendas into the theoretical framework of postmodernism, which postulated the subjectivity and relativity of all knowledge. In a time of diminishing opportunities in academe, this challenge increasingly took the form of an insurgency, which ultimately overran university departments in the humanities and social sciences.'
The Leftist aspect of this "uprising", which Kramer is focusing on exclusively, I maintain only fits as the exclusive causation in spheres like Academe. The rise to mainstream dominance of PC MC in the culture at large throughout the West, affecting not only "Elites" but also millions of ordinary people, requires a subtler more sophisticated etiology.
-EPISTEMOLOGY replied - Thanks a lot, dear Hesperado, seems to be a great book, and I don't even have to purchase it. From what I read until now, Edward Said obviously suffered from a persecution complex, even blaming somebody like Albert Camus who had such a deep understanding of Algeria is totally crazy. Said was an anti-Western psychopath, he hated the Judeo-Christian culture that much, although he was a Christian Pali himself. Always blame the West for anything bad that occurs. It's Western colonialism and imperialism, but that Islamic colonialism and imperialism have been far worse including slavery, and are far worse to this very day, that escapes his perception.____Thank you
And what happened to the Christian majority in Spain after the requonquista? They had to regain their identity and self-respect and they committed a lot of atrocities in that struggle. This is not an excuse, simply an explanation. There would have been no Spanish inquisition and no massacres of native Americans in Latin America committed by the Spanish, if there had been no Islamic invasion in Spain. But fairy tales keep being told, see above.
-FAIRUZFAN said to EPISTEMOLOGY - You must be joking. There were multiple inquistions held by Christendom, with varying degrees of involvement by the Vatican, more than just the one in Spain. Inquistions have gotten a bad rap, they were not all bad. We traditional Catholics are proud of the ones run directly and properly by the Church, less so others that were the domain mostly of undisciplined civil authority. The biggest problem with the Spanish Inquistion appears to be the opportunism of unscrupulous Catholics and unprincipled Jews using the proceedings to pursue retribution against converts whom they didn't like. This had nothing to do with Islam.
-YANKEL observed, of Fairuzfan's posting - All gas and nonsense. Disregard the vacuous, nonsensical postings of this fraud and pseudo-intellectual putz. He's not even worth refuting as NOT a SINGLE opionionated statement is backed up with sources.
-FAIRUZFAN said to YANKEL - Oh dear, Yankel, you've shown up again and opened your mouth. How sad as you simply choose to profane yourself and your forebearers with such nonsense.
Can a neurotic, vulgar, perfidious, wretched ignoramous like you ever have regard for the truth? One can be doubtful, but let's take a chance. Here's an article you can start with:
http://insidecatholic.com/Joomla/index.php?option...
-DENNISW told ABDULLAH MIKAIL-
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_people_died_fr...
All Inquisitions combined killed 50,000 at the most. Islam has killed millions even hundreds of millions since your false prophet started murdering and raping
Just the Hindu estimate is 80 million killed by Muslims over a few centuries of conquest.
You are just another example of a psycho-Muslim with no sense of proportion. Islam has given you a frontal lobotomy and lowered your IQ to a monkey's.
-ICESTAR told ABDULLAH MIKAIL - There is and always will be much discussion about the Inquisition ( all of them) on Pagan websites.
A closer look at the actual records show that the number of victims has been greatly inflated, and the majority of victims were Christian women.
The motivation was power by intimidation and a grab for wealth controlled by women. The Inquisitions were always approved by the pope.
The Malleus Malefcarum is still in print. Women who practiced midwifery, herbalism, and such were primary victims.
There is a lot of misinformation out there about the Inquisitions of Europe, check the sources reliability carefully.
ABDULLAH MIKAIL said - "Spencer: Who Is Really Being Dishonest About Islam?"
Wow, the answer preceded the question.
-MO FOE said - Again, have you met Spencer's challenge? You quoted me some items from Ishaq, was it, that showed something you think discredits Spencer, and I asked you some basic questions--is Ishaq the leader of a sect? What about Ishaq exegesis of the Qu'ran that seem to support the warfare interpretation of jihad--and got nothing.
So, nice try, but your evidence is seriously lacking. Where has Spencer been dishonest? Please, enlighten us (unless you find me dishonest, unfair and unworthy of comment, again)
-ABDULLAH MIKAIL said - You always ask but you never answer.
You hide what your faith is.
You are an unfair & dishonest person, and you are unworthy of further discourse.
-MO FOE told ABDULLAH MIKAIL - I seem to recall you asking someone else this question. I have never hidden my faith, because it seemed you were asking someone else.
First of all, I don't know how this is relevant to whether Spencer is dishonest about Islam.
But, I will tell you--I have no faith. I am what you might call a deist. I think there might be some "higher power" who made all this, but I definitely do not believe in a personal god who cares what I eat, wear, or anything I do.
There, I've answered your question.
Now, since you have deemed me unworthy of further discourse, I get the distinct pleasure of asking you all kinds of questions and not ever worrying about being contradicted. :-)
-DUMBLEDORESARMY said to ABDULLAH MIKAIL, re his posting above, to MO FOE - Way to go, AM. You've just described yourself, mate.
-ICESTAR told ABDULLAH MIKAIL - "Prove it. Better yet go to Faith Freedom International.org and take Ali Sina's challenge as well."
END OF PART TWO OF ORIGINAL COMMENTS THREAD.
Part three of original comments thread, from record kept by dumbledoresarmy.
GRAVENIMAGE said - (quoting) "Ajami,” complains Patel, “opens his piece by juxtaposing two disparate pieces of history: the departure of Spain’s last Muslim ruler in 1492, and the terrorist attacks on Madrid in 2004."
.............................
And yet, the perpetrators of that Jihad terrorist attack had no qualms about linking the two "disparate pieces of history":
Andalusian Myth, Eurabian Reality
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/00...
ICESTAR said - Since those books rated a negative commentary from Muslim apologist I will add them to my library.
JOEBLOUGH said - (quoting) '"The Muslim presence in medieval Spain,” asserts Patel, “is widely regarded as a time of tolerance, good government and support for the arts and education.”
Appeal to popularity. Invalid.
I'll add that the world used to be "widely regarded" as flat.
Just like the top of Patel's head.'
END OF MY RECORD OF ORIGINAL COMMENTS THREAD.