So he murdered a few Infidels. Who cares?
Lockerbie Bomber Update: "Lockerbie bomber 'set free for oil,'" by Jason Allardyce for The Sunday Times, August 30 (thanks to Sr. Soph):
The British government decided it was “in the overwhelming interests of the United Kingdom” to make Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi, the Lockerbie bomber, eligible for return to Libya, leaked ministerial letters reveal.Gordon Brown’s government made the decision after discussions between Libya and BP over a multi-million-pound oil exploration deal had hit difficulties. These were resolved soon afterwards.
The letters were sent two years ago by Jack Straw, the justice secretary, to Kenny MacAskill, his counterpart in Scotland, who has been widely criticised for taking the formal decision to permit Megrahi’s release.
The correspondence makes it plain that the key decision to include Megrahi in a deal with Libya to allow prisoners to return home was, in fact, taken in London for British national interests....
Short-term short-sighted ones, however, that will ultimately cause Britain great harm.
The lockerbie bomber should have died in jail
If the British and Scottish governments don't fall, that is also a scandal, and proof of just how much evil has taken control.
This could be a last chance for Britain to rid itself of the political vermin, many like Brown and Blair who were blatant communists before their alleged shift to democracy. In their speeches, these sinister politician constantly demand that the British people grab ankle for the jihadists and Islamic oil masters that would turn Britain into a sharia state, and there is all too much evidence the Islamists are becoming successful in that.
These politicians should hang for conspiring with the monster, Gaddafi, who plotted jihad on the victims over Lockerbie.
Gaddafi didn't have a change of heart on terrorism. His experts informed him that Muslim immigration and high birth rate will make Europe Islamic in 50 years, so why bother.
just another example of a Muslim government doing all it can to support Islamic terrorism....the oil deal was just icing on the cake...
As a Scot-Canadian this saddens me. Release on humanitarian grounds is one thing, but release for oil is another.
The souls who perished and their families deserve better. By this economic trade-off we are all diminished.
Snort. "Humanitarian grounds" - that was a whitewash from the beginning. Figures the full story is this sordid.
How is it that the true scum of the world consistently manage to rise to governmental positions?
I feel like erecting a windmill right now.
Is there any more craven an appeaser of Islam then the British government? How is it the English people haven't risen up and lynched these evil politicians, as their ancestors would have done?
If this does not bring Brown to the ground, nothing will...
Even if it is true that a good oil deal with Libya was the true motivation behind shoving mercy - and we don´t know that for sure - that´s a very small price to pay. And in addition to oil we demonstrate our capacity for compassion to the Arab world and are viewed in a more positive light.
Who are the loosers in this deal?
Is it not those who always want revenge no matter what?
I evaluate Obamas Cairo speech in much the same way. If the extreeme overpraising of Islam and Muslims can help change attitudes toward the US to be more positive then the nonsense is not wasted. Words are the cheapest commodity, so we get something for nothing.
Obama, like all politicians, should be evaluated and judged by his deeds not the pragmatic words necessary to reach the goals.
".......will ultimately cause Britain great harm."
Great harm has already been caused to Britain by this communist government and it's unelected Brown dictatorship. I wonder if any of this will appear in the British media? Probably not!
If it does, the reports will contain half truths or downright lies!
"The children of this world consider the children of light to be stupid and that they themselves are the prudent ones. Their prudence shall be their death." - St. Augustine.
One astonishing revelation of this age is that spiritual truth has become practical truth.
Sorry! Quote abobve is St. Anthony
Ipso Facto, You've obviously drank the cool aid. If it were only words that bought off the Islamist oil masters, that would be one thing. We'd be like China, then. Not many Islamists immigrating there, are there?
But the quisling and cowardness of western politicians is backed up by written agreements for fire sales of western institutions and businesses, putting Islamic propaganda in the schools, and physically replacing western culture and people with Islamic sharia culture and immigrants.
To think Obama is actually trying to trick Islamists instead of unite with them is sheer stupidity. He does not understand the core goals of Islam--a perverse theogarchy controlled by Islamist clerics to effectively do any crime they want to non-Muslims, women, children and dissenters. Look at the Taliban, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Northern Nigeria, Somalia, etc. and say I'm lying. It's a vicious, evil and barbaric movement in virtually every country with a significant Muslim presence, including now Europe.
Obama simply doesn't accept this reality. He only believes the propaganda, like most "moderate" Muslims and appeasers.
It's doubtful that Libya hatched the Lockerbie plot. It was probably Iran getting revenge for Vincennes. And the barometric trigger on the bomb had already been deployed before by the Syrian proxies Iran probably used. Still, Libyans were reportedly involved, so this guy could have been involved. (What a mess!)
At the time, however, fingering Iran would have been inconvenient due to our desire to court their favor.
That means, in a sense, though, that the release here only compounds the injustice. We contrived to get Iran off the hook for geopolitical reasons in the past, and now there's a fix to spring a convicted mass murderer for economic reasons.
I am appalled, I have long been disgusted at this government but this I can scarcely believe. I am glad it was The Times that broke this rather than The Sun as it is more likely to be taken seriously.
(AFAIK) Britain doesn't have an impeachment process unfortunately, and equally unfortunately it's going to be almost a year until we can vote this TREACHEROUS, CRIMINAL scum out of office. I have no idea what else can actually be done, suggestions?
It also goes to show that the 1997 poster campaign by the conservatives was absolutely bang on the button.
Two examples:
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/election2001/images/0,9350,449562,00.html
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/election2001/images/0,,448922,00.html
I remember seeing these on billboards all over England, unfortunately the electorate on the whole chose to ignore them.
"Words are the cheapest commodity..."
As you demonstrate, Ipso.
The Lockerbie massive slaughter of innocents has always seemed to me to be a full blooded act of war by Libya and IMO there probably should have been war from at least the USA & Britain if not also NATO. Libya has only a little over 6 million mostly urban inhabitants on a mostly barren, largely flat terrain, large in area but conveniently located right on the Mediterranean not too far. A war plan to wipe out Libyan military and simply seize the oil & gas in short brutal order should be easy but would take the virility the West doesn't choose to have as the fashion today is to be "sensitive".
IMO such a justifiable war would not result in any real warlike response from the Muslim world - they treat massive power with respect, like they did after the fall of the Ottoman Empire. Today, however, the West is only the skinny infidel on the beach that they can kick sand on and occupy his property (& rape his women
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2009/04/16/rape-by-muslims-epidemic-in-europe-and-headed-this-way-now-that-islamobama-wants-to-increase-muslim-immigration-to-the-us/. )
Game is over for United Kingdom, isn't it....
That's right..the fish stinks from the head...
Who else are you going to sell out ....
I guess America is going to be betrayed next...
Will we read in the news that the UK has accepted Shariah law?
Please folks, let's ease up on the Brits. After all, we've got Hussein Obowma!
As a PROUD ENGLISHMAN the anger in me is rising. Our Government yet again prove they are the biggest joke in the world at the moment - and make MY country look weak when once we were regarded as Lion-Hearted.
There really will be blood on the streets all over the West (much more than has been spilled at Lockerbie)- that much is obvious. I think we all know what happens to the Non-Muslims whenever the Muslims make grounds and are the majority. It's happened throughout history. And will keep happening if we let it.
If things don't change soon the will be another Holocaust in Europe. This time it won't be just the Jewish faith who get it - it will be Christians too. I guarantee that when the Muslim numbers are high enough they WILL go after the Saturday people - and at the same time the Sunday people. Placards held by Mozzas in England have already indicated this.
Sometime in the next 10-15 years Europe will enter a second Dark Age. This has to happen if we are to survive as a culture. It's not as bleak as many think - because when the day comes for the European Male to refind his balls we will show what a bloodythirst race we actually are....
Gordon Brown and the rest of the British government is in the same league as the corrupt dictators and big men of tinpot african states. They are all on the payroll of their arab masters.
NO OIL FOR BLOOD!
Too late...
So, now we know what is under all those kilts.
Nothing.
Salaam,
It seems that the British whities of today have proved that they are indeed the sons of their ancestors...those that will sell sand to the Arabs and ice to the Eskimos.
Only the whities of today don't hold or can exercise the same power as before...but the scheming and the games to put profit above morals, faith and religion ...well that's all working fine thank you very much.
How low can you sink...you may hate us Muslims for what we ask/do...but we stick to our guns...not for us cheap polictiking and profiteering...we ARE the sons of Alla SWT and he he has given us the black sword...oil.
The British used to laugh at the Arabs... caravaning in the desert, with no water or places for food to grow..."let the devil Arabs keep this god forsaken place...there is nothing here for us"....indeed there is nothing here for you ...LOL if that isn't the biggest punchline joke that Alla SWT has played on the Kaffiran ...I don't know what is.
It is the English in particular that have even corrupted the Scots to give up their morals and think like their masters...
Best of luck for the future...bet you that another condition of the sale with BP is to allow several thousand Libyans on ehh!!! an "exchange" program.
Max Publius:
"Ipso Facto, You've obviously drank the cool aid."
No, actually I am a realist without any illusions about Islam and Islamism.
"But the quisling and cowardness of western politicians is backed up by written agreements for fire sales of western institutions and businesses, putting Islamic propaganda in the schools, and physically replacing western culture and people with Islamic sharia culture and immigrants."
This was not a fire sale. We did not give up any institutions or moral principles. On the contrary we demonstrated one of our fundamental values: the capacaty to show compassion and mercy.
That is why I claim that we got something for nothing!
"To think Obama is actually trying to trick Islamists instead of unite with them is sheer stupidity. He does not understand the core goals of Islam ..."
It is too early to tell. We know what Obama said, but words are cheap. He continues the war against Al Qaeda and Taliban in Afghanistan and use drone attacks against high value targets in Pakistan - just like Bush did.
During the Cold War - an intense ideological conflict - the US continued to make all sorts of political and economic deals with the Soviet Union.
Even after the USSR deliberately shot down a Korean Air Lines civilian airliner that was shot on September 1, 1983 over the Sea of Japan, alledgedly violating Soviet airspace on a spy mission. No one was punished for that act of mass murder or terrorism.
Korean Air Lines Flight 007 (KAL 007, KE 007[Notes 2]) was a Korean Air Lines civilian airliner that was shot down by Soviet jet interceptors on September 1, 1983 over the Sea of Japan,[Notes 3] just west of Sakhalin island over prohibited Soviet airspace. All 269 passengers and crew aboard were killed, including Lawrence McDonald, a sitting member of the United States Congress. The aircraft was en route from New York City via Anchorage to Seoul when it strayed into prohibited Soviet airspace because of a navigational error.
The Soviet Union initially denied knowledge of the incident,[2] but later admitted shooting the aircraft down, claiming that it was on a spy mission.[3] The Politburo believed it was a deliberate provocation by the United States,[4] to test the Soviet Union's military preparedness, or even to provoke a war. The United States accused the Soviet Union of obstructing search and rescue operations.[5] Furthermore, the Soviet military suppressed evidence sought by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) investigation, notably the flight data recorders,[6] which were eventually released nine years later after a change of government.[7]
The Libyans, remember, did not just shoot down the Lockerbie plane (in a contract operation, as revenge for the American Infidels having shot down, by an admitted mistake, an Iranian airliner). They also shot down a French UT airliner flying from Brazzaville to Paris. This too needs to be rememberdd. And then there is that nightclub in Berlin(the American response was a bombing of Tripoli, including Qaddafy's home).
And the freeing of Al-Mugrahi is of a piece with many other, similar outrages. One of them was the act of violence to British law (see the Law Lords), when the investigation into Saudi bribe-giving and bribe-taking was dropped because the Saudis threatened to cancel a fat contract with B.A.E. I'm amazed that in all the stories about the latest example of official pusillanimity that has not been recalled.
And there are so mnay examples, by no means limited to Great Britiain. Think of the freeing, by the Italian government (and what a government!) of one of the Achille Lauro hijackers whom the Americans had captured, and handed over to the Italians. Think of the last several decades of attempts to curry favor, entirely unnecessarily by the way, if one understood the oil markets and the utter dependence of the Arab oil states on Western technological help, Western expperts, access to Western medicine and Western education, and at the same time,their total reliance on oil revenues for their economic survival.
There was never any need to curry favor, in any way, with Saudi Arabia or any of the oil states, and that, of course, includes the opera bouffe regime of Colonel Qaddafy.
But let's recall old books, and what they tell us.
In "The Good Book" -- but Latin puts it best:
Radix malorum cupiditas est.
It's "In The Book" - but Latin puts it best:
Radix malorum cupiditas est.
ipso facto wrote: This was not a fire sale. We did not give up any institutions or moral principles. On the contrary we demonstrated one of our fundamental values: the capacaty to show compassion and mercy
You are wrong ipso. By releasing the bastard the West has yet again shown that it does not value the lives of it's citizens and that for oil they are willing to do everything. the muslims will see this as yet another victory for this cause. The hero's welcome he got and Yom's posting above prove my point. it's precisely because of oil deals that we got millions of muslim immigrants in Europe (according to Bat Yeor)
What's the use of showing compassion and mercy to the muslims and islam, only a fool will think that they will understand such notions. Did the Allies show compassion and mercy to the Axis powers?? Nope. The release of that murderour will just be interpretated as another sign of weakness by the muslims and it will only embolden them. A sheep can not fight against a wolf. Islam is from it's start at war with everything that is unislamic and i rather fight with no compassion and mercy and win the war than have compassion and mercy and lose the war.
My post above ends, inadvertently, with two variants on the same theme. Kindly read only the one you prefer, and mentally discard the other.
As Max Publius, Abscedere and rammer have already commented, Ipso Facto is a deeply morally confused individual. This person can't even differentiate between revenge and retribution, nor can he comprehend that justice must be universal and compassion selective. Hard to believe such ethically twisted human beings exist but Ipso Facto is ipso facto evidence that they do.
Yes, and the US is responsible for many of those examples. How many of the mujahideen that were held in Guantanamo Bay returned to killing infidels once they were released?
Next time you need gas, keep driving past that BP station if they serve your part of the country.
While the Latin proverb quoted by Hugh may explain certain key instances of our general problem, I think another quote more aptly describes the far more prevalent sin that is serving to perpetuate our inability to rationally deal with the danger of Islam (if by "sin" we understand it in its original Greek sense of "missing the mark"):
The road to Hell is paved with good intentions -- derived, apparently, from sources further back than Samuel Johnson as found in the good book of Boswell, to a Saint Bernard of Clairvaux (1091-1153) and his "Hell is full of good intentions or desires."
The "good intentions" in our case being the many interlocking "values" of PC MC, most of which are, in fact, good virtues, but taken to irrational, morbid and often perverse excess. Were there not this broader matrix in which such good intentions are systemic, dominant and mainstream, cupidity in these matters would not enjoy nearly the same degree of traction and cover it does enjoy. To see what I mean, it is only necessary to entertain an imaginative exercise: Imagine if this released terrorist were not Muslim, but a fanatical "right-wing" Jew who had mass-murdered over 200 Muslims. Would any influential politicians, motivated mostly by greed, of Britain or any other Western polity have been able to pull off his release to a joyous welcome in Israel? Or imagine the terrorist had been a White Aryan who had mass-murdered over 200 blacks. Not only would the greedy politicians themselves have likely suppressed their own greed out of their own inner psychological hesitation to profit off what they feel is shockingly immoral, even the less scrupulous among them would realize it would be political suicide to do so. Not so with Muslims in our time.
Actually, BP are possibly the only British Oil company who seem to be trying to prepare for a post-oil future.
They have invested quite a bit in alternative technologies, research etc.
Buying oil from a company with clean hands as regards the Middle-East will require quite a search, I’m afraid.
Odysseus-
Indeed. It's always the lesser of two evils, and not by much.
I can't wait to see all the campus protests over this. Whenever that happens...
OT: Hamas: UN wants to teach Gaza children about the Holocaust
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1251145154805&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
“Calling the Nazi genocide of the Jews "a lie invented by the Zionists," Hamas wrote in an open letter to a senior UN official that he should withdraw plans for a new history book in the UN schools. “
The Palestinians need to propagate their anti-Semitism in order to maintain control of their populace and further their fascist ideology.
Rammer:
“You are wrong ipso. By releasing the bastard the West has yet again shown that it does not value the lives of it's citizens and that for oil they are willing to do everything. the muslims will see this as yet another victory for this cause. The hero's welcome he got and Yom's posting above prove my point. it's precisely because of oil deals that we got millions of muslim immigrants in Europe (according to Bat Yeor).“
I agree with Bat Ye´or that Western Europe (the EEC) because of the threat of an oil boycott in 1973 changed its foreign policy dramatically, and compromised basic democratic values and principles by adopting the Arab views on the Palestine conflict and on the US. This was the foundation of the European Islamization and the birth of Eurabia.
“Releasing the bastard” can be seen as the latest example of European dhimmitude but it can hardly be used by the Libyans or Arabs in the propaganda war along the lines of Islamophobia. It is the other way around: Europe gets credit for showing compassion, and if the compassion was also motivated by a good oil deal, so what? Whatever we do the Muslim fanatics will interpretate it is a victory for Islam.
Nothing wrong with doing small pragmatic deals with the enemy as long as we get something for nothing. That is what realistic politics is all about.
“Did the Allies show compassion and mercy to the Axis powers?? Nope.”
In some cases yes!
Justice is a very abstract notion and always subject to pragmatic political deliberations.
I agree it should not be that way but human nature and national political interests may in the end dictate whether a nazi criminal who helped commit mass murder should be punished or rewarded with a good care free life.
Let me give one American example (there are many others) where political pragmatism rule over justice.
It involves the Nazi criminal and rocket scientist Wernher von Braun and is known as “Operation Paperclip”.
“Operation Paperclip was the code name for the 1945 Office of Strategic Services, Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency recruitment of German scientists from Nazi Germany to the U.S. after VE Day.
President Truman authorized Operation Paperclip in August 1945; however he had expressly ordered that anyone found "to have been a member of the Nazi party and more than a nominal participant in its activities, or an active supporter of Nazism militarism" would be excluded.
Under this criterion many of the scientists recruited, such as Werner von Braun, Arthur Rudolph and Hubertus Strughold, who were all officially on record as Nazis and listed as a "menace to the security of the Allied Forces," were ineligible. All were cleared to work in the U.S. after having their backgrounds "bleached" by the military. The paperclips that secured newly-minted background details to their personnel files gave the operation its name.
This travesti of justice inspired Tom Lehrer to write a sarkastic song about Wernher von Braun:
"And what is it that put America in the forefront of the nuclear nations? And what is it that will make it possible to spend 20 billion dollars of your money to put some clown on the moon? Well, it was good old American know-how, that's what. As provided by good old Americans like Dr. Wernher von Braun.
Gather round while I sing you of Wernher von Braun,
A man whose allegiance
Is ruled by expedience.
Call him a Nazi, he won't even frown.
"Ha, Nazi Schmazi," says Wernher von Braun.
Don't say that he's hypocritical,
Say rather that he's apolitical.
"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down?
That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun.
Some have harsh words for this man of renown,
But some think our attitude
Should be one of gratitude,
Like the widows and cripples in old London town
Who owe their large pensions to Wernher von Braun.
You too may be a big hero,
Once you've learned to count backwards to zero.
"In German oder English I know how to count down,
Und I'm learning Chinese," says Wernher von Braun."
Oil is becoming so bloody a commodity that I feel like I'm getting a transfusion every time I fill my tank!
Jack Straw is behind this... with the blessing of the unelected brownnose, of course!
@ ipso facto
Offcourse the Arabs and Libyans will use his release as propaganda. They will use it to demonstrate to their people that by using the oil card they can even get mass murderous bastards free and this is because of the 'glory of islam'. the bastard got a hero's welcome didn't he, well that proves my point. Every muslim will be laughing Europe and Brittain in it's face.
Releasing someone who is responsible for the deaths of so many westerners isn't a 'small pragmatical deal' it just confirms the stereotype that westerners will sell their own mother if the price is right and that too will be used in arab propaganda.
You seem to think that it's worth making that deal in exhange for oil because the West needs oil well let me tell you something the West does NOT need arab oil. There are plenty of techniques available for making synthetic fuel (google fischer tropsch process) but it's because of big oil companies, their arab oil sheikh buddies and the influence the both of them use with Western political elites those techniques are not fully utilised.
And the Allies showed no compassion or mercy to the Axis, they reduced their cities to rubble and even dropped 2 nukes on their cities because that was necessary to win the war. That same ruthless approach should be used by the non-muslims in the war against islam now when the numbers are in OUR advantage. If the non-muslims keep on showing compassion and mercy (acting like a bunch of mindless sheeps) to those barbarians islam will prevail trust me.
I don't care about any of the examples you bring, NOTHING justifies the making of such vile and ugly deals with muslims.
If you think that Europe will get the credit from muslims for showing compassion and mercy you can keep on drinking the cool aid because that will never happen. I know that the muslim mind doesn't work that way.
I hope that i don't need to remind you that Chamberlain thought that the nazi's were reasonable people with whom he could deal with through an appeasment policy, well it turned out that playing the nice guy with the nazi's didn't help. Islam is worser than National-Socialism so don't be foolish enough to think that one can somehow change the minds of the muslims by appeasing them. Such an approach will only embolden them.
OK let us examine the two possibilities: release or no-release.
The no-release would have angered the Libyans and Arabs and been used in their propaganda to demonstrate Western double standards towards Islam and Arabs. Had he died in prison he would undoubtedly has been celebrated as an Islamic martyr when the body was returned to Libya for burial.
And all good oil deals would have been blocked and the relationship more strained than it already is.
And they would actually have a good case. In Scotland, 23 prisoners have been released on medical grounds in the last nine years, with seven requests denied. Statistically, that means al-Megrahi had about a 75 percent chance of securing an early release.
In England and Wales, 49 prisoners have been granted compassionate release since 2004, including Ronnie Briggs, the infamous "Great Train Robber" who was released Aug. 6 by an order from Justice Secretary Jack Straw.
In the U.S., such releases are far less common on the national level, and even impending death may not be enough to secure a prisoner's compassionate release.
The Federal Bureau of Prisons approved an average of only 21.3 motions for medical release each year between 2000 and 2008. About 24 percent of the prisoners died behind bars before their motions were ruled on.
So what it boils down to may be rooted in culture - different concepts of crime, punishment and compassion in the EU and the US.
No arguments can change such an firmly established attitude common among most Americans. It is a very slow proces but the US public seems to be moving away from Capital Punishment and getting closer to the European conception of justice and compassion.
I have already put my arguments forward supporting the many benefits of compassionate release and your counter arguments give me no reason the change my oppinion.
"And the Allies showed no compassion or mercy to the Axis, they reduced their cities to rubble and even dropped 2 nukes on their cities because that was necessary to win the war. That same ruthless approach should be used by the non-muslims in the war against islam now when the numbers are in OUR advantage."
First of all the West is not at war with Islam, but with various Islamic militant groups waging jihad against us.
Many people in Europe consider the terror bombing of cities without any military value the Allies committed against Germany and Japan in the last months of the war serious war crimes. I am one of them.
"I don't care about any of the examples you bring, NOTHING justifies the making of such vile and ugly deals with muslims."
I proved you wrong and you don´t care? Then you are just as mindless as a jihadist.
"I hope that i don't need to remind you that Chamberlain thought that the nazi's were reasonable people with whom he could deal with through an appeasment policy, well it turned out that playing the nice guy with the nazi's didn't help."
You don´t. I studied the failed apeacement policy quite extensively. That why I agree with Bat Ye´ or thesis in "Eurabia". But the mistake was made in 1973 and the release of convicted Libyan will not change anything one way or the other. That´s why I call it unimportant.
The only thing that could change the Islamization of a Europe destined to become Arabia is through the democratic political process. When the majority of Europeans realize that they have been lied to and cheated by the political elite for more than 30 years the semi-fascist EU will crumble and the European national states will seek their natural partners in a allience with democratic states such as the US and Israel - not in the Arab or Muslim world.
@ ipso facto
"And all good oil deals would have been blocked and the relationship more strained than it already is."
As i said before the West DOES NOT need Arab oil and the West DOES NOT need good relations with a dictator and terrorist supporter like Ghadaffi. Ghadaffi is also a supporter of the islamisation of the West. If the political will is there than the West can do without any drop of Arab oil because there are plenty of alternatives out there, unfortunately though many politicians get under the table 'donations' from oil companies and Arab sheikhs.
"In Scotland, 23 prisoners have been released on medical grounds in the last nine years, with seven requests denied."
Were each those people responsible for the deaths of hundreds of people?? I don't think so. So stop making those stupid comparisons.
"First of all the West is not at war with Islam, but with various Islamic militant groups waging jihad against us."
The concept of waging jihad is firmly rooted within islam. islam itself declared war against anything that is non-islamic since the founding of that cult by fake prophet muhammed, the whole non-muslim world is called "house of war" that says a lot. So yes the West SHOULD be at war with islam and NOT with various constantly changing and shifting groups who will always be there and who draw their inspiration and justification from islam. Even if those groups are defeated others will take their place because the ideology (islam) is still in place.
"I proved you wrong and you don´t care? Then you are just as mindless as a jihadist."
LOL, you come with stupid and irrelevant comparisons and you think you proved me wrong. LOL, keep on drinking the cool aid idiot.
"Many people in Europe consider the terror bombing of cities without any military value the Allies committed against Germany and Japan in the last months of the war serious war crimes. I am one of them."
One could just as well argue that war itself is a crime. I don't. The Allies did what they had to do at that time in order to win and i don't blame them for that. It was war and war is not supposed to be gentle.
"The only thing that could change the Islamization of a Europe destined to become Arabia is through the democratic political process."
Even with some drastic change in the governing political elites (something i don't see happening for a long time) that still means that you will have a seizable and ever expanding muslim minority within the various European countries. With all those human rights treaties, laws and left wing judges and courts it is nearly impossible to deport them in large numbers and thus drastically reduce their numbers.
but hey keep on dreaming lol.
"When the majority of Europeans realize that they have been lied to and cheated by the political elite for more than 30 years the semi-fascist EU will crumble and the European national states will seek their natural partners in a allience with democratic states such as the US and Israel"
Man i wish that the E.U. would crumble but you are underestimating the will of the political elites. The french, dutch and irish voted NO but the E.U. project still keeps on going. The political elites just ignored the wishes of the dutch and french and pushed their E.U. project through under an slightly different facade. As for the Irish they will get a second opportunity to vote because their politicans don't respect their first vote. So no amount of democratic proces or elections will bring the E.U. down.
Sometime in the next 10-15 years Europe will enter a second Dark Age. This has to happen if we are to survive as a culture. It's not as bleak as many think - because when the day comes for the European Male to refind his balls we will show what a bloodythirst race we actually are....
Vampire Jack, well said.
As Max Publius, Abscedere and rammer have already commented, Ipso Facto is a deeply morally confused individual. posted by Wellington
That's what a steady diet of cultural/religious/moral relativism does to people. If one belief is no better than another and moral judgment is tantamount to lynching, you get the soul-less, spiritless, shells of human beings the West has been mass producing for decades, exemplified by Ipso Facto. When one stands for everything, one stands for nothing.
When people become immune to evil and deny its existence, they aren't "tolerant", they are immoral cowards.
ipso facto: And in addition to oil we demonstrate our capacity for compassion to the Arab world and are viewed in a more positive light.
I will say this yet again....WE DON'T NEED TO BE VIEWED BY THE ARAB NATIONS AS COMPASSIONATE OR IN A MORE POSITIVE LIGHT. THEY JUST SEE US AS WEAK!
Are you a Leftie college professor or a Marxist/Leninist idealist? Or high?
Your posts are a bewildering mix of BS and idiocy.
ipso facto: And in addition to oil we demonstrate our capacity for compassion to the Arab world and are viewed in a more positive light.
I will say this yet again....WE DON'T NEED TO BE VIEWED BY THE ARAB NATIONS AS COMPASSIONATE OR IN A MORE POSITIVE LIGHT. THEY JUST SEE US AS WEAK!
Are you a Leftie college professor or a Marxist/Leninist idealist? Or high?
Your posts are a bewildering mix of BS and idiocy.
Susanp:
"As Max Publius, Abscedere and rammer have already commented, Ipso Facto is a deeply morally confused individual. posted by Wellington."
Sorry, but it seems that my opponents are the ones who are morally confused.
They want to implement double standards in the justice system when dealing with convicted Muslims - I don´t.
Muslims should be treated exactly as everyone else in the legal system no better and no worse.
That´s one of the core values in a democracy where the rule of law applies.
The rule of law, also called supremacy of law, simply means that the law is above everyone and it applies (equally) to everyone. Whether governors or governed, rulers or ruled, no one is above the law, no one is exempted from the law, and no one can grant exemption to the application of the law.
Friedrich Hayek in his book, ”The Constitution of Liberty” (1961), wrote: “By ‘law’ we mean the general rules that apply equally to everybody… As a true law should not name any particulars, so it should especially not single out any specific persons or group of persons... the rules must apply to those who lay them down and those who apply – that is, to the government as well as the governed – and that nobody has the power to grant exceptions.”
Rule of law can also be viewed as a general legal maxim according to which decisions should be made by applying known principles or laws, without the intervention of discretion in their application. This maxim is intended to be a safeguard against arbitrary governance. Arbitrary signifies a judgment made at the discretion of the arbiter, rather than according to the rule of law.
Forget the conspiracy theories: HE IS ACTUALLY DYING!
Libyan official says the man convicted of the Lockerbie bombing has been hospitalized and television footage showed him breathing through an oxygen mask, signs his illness from cancer may be worsening shortly after his early prison release sparked international outrage.
The Libyan Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, Mohammed Siala, said Monday that Abdel Baset al-Megrahi was in the hospital and described him as a “dying man.”
A nasty scandal masks a far worse scandal.
Theres no low too low for the English when it comes to accomodating Muslims. It is not news at all. It has been this way foe centuries. Before, it was "for the interests of the Empire". Now that the Empire is gone despite all this English sh-- - dipping, it is "for the economic interests of the UK", "in the interests of British national security". Still buying "peace in their time", no matter how many times it blows back in their faces.
But this time, it is not "trading a terrorist for oil". The reality is even worse. Al-Megrahi is not the bomber at all. The real bombers are Iran, Jibril, PFLP - GC, Syria, and the entire US State. Dept. and "intelligence community" have been covering up for them for 21 years now, because they themselves were deeply involved in this mass murder of Americans. The things had suddenly come to a head when Al-Megrahi filed an appeal. That did it. A new public trial would expose the real bombers and their "white American slaves" without whom the atrocity would not have happened. The latest revelations would come to public attention, including the information on the bribing of the key Maltese witness, Tony Gauci, by the CIA, whith $2 million, who also had shown him a picture of al-Megrahi so he could "identify" him. All too many big wigs in the US and UK wanted to avoid this publicity. And guess what? Al-Megrahi suddenly drops his appeal, and is immediatelly freed, without any court procedure. The Scotts are only the visible part of the conspiracy. Behind them are hiding even worse English criminals, and behind those, the entrenched American government establishment, the "good old boys' network" of officials now in office and those who are retired, and those are the criminals who are the worst of the worst of the worst. They have the biggest vested interest in keeping Lockerbie covered up. There's total political corruption of justice in the Western world nowadays, whether it is the prostitute "International War Crimes Tribunal" in the Hague or the Lockerbie "justice". A real tribunal is in order. A Nuremberg tribunal to try those who now sit in judgement of others.
Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.