I'm here in Washington at the Former Muslims United press conference. Nonie Darwish kicked it off. Here is a liveblog of her remarks:
"The worst kind of tyranny is of victims who are scared to speak." She explains that this is the situation of those who have left Islam. Being a Muslim, she says, does not involve a personal relationship with God. When it comes to Islam, however, one doesn't choose his religion, your birth certificate is stamped Muslim, and you have a relationship with the Islamic state.
The Muslim scriptures are inundated with commandments against those who leave the religion. It is being preached in mosques in America that one should kill the apostates wherever you find them. It is the law of Islam -- Hanafi, Hanbali, Shafi'i and Maliki schools of law all agree that the person who leaves Islam must be killed. What's worse than the law, however, is when the religious and legal system tells Muslims that they can kill apostates and not be punished. Islamic law gives the right to the Muslim on the street to kill the apostate. Under Islamic law, such a murderer will not go to jail. This happened in Egypt -- Faraj Foda was killed in front of his house and the killer is not prosecuted. This is the source of the apostates' fear -- any Muslim on the street may kill them, and have no fear of prosecution.
This is the most severe aspect of Islamic law -- turning father against children, turning brother against brother. I have been disinherited by my family already. Marriage of an apostate is immediately annulled. There was a case in Egypt in which a man was denounced as an apostate and was subjected to a third-party divorce. This is perfectly in keeping with the laws of Sharia. And we have people right here in America who believe in these laws. We are living in constant fear of our lives because we have left Islam. There is not a day that goes by in which I do not think of that threat. Radical Muslims call me "Jew-lover," right here on college campuses in the U.S. Why did Wafa Sultan have to leave her beautiful home to live in an apartment? Why did I recently write an article about an Egyptian journalist who denied he was an apostate but merely criticized some aspects of Sharia law, and was accused of an apostate? 5,000 mosques declared he was an apostate and a heretic. Hosni Mubarak also was denounced as an apostate for giving this man an award. We don't have to declare that we are apostates. We just have to act at variance with Sharia -- like the girl in Canada who acted like an apostate by refusing to wear the hijab and was killed by her father.
There is very little hope for reform in Islam. Nobody knows why Sadat was killed. I was a young woman living in Egypt. The radicals condemned Sadat as an apostate for making peace with Israel. Sadat told many of his confidants that he knew that by agreeing to peace with Israel he was signing his death warrant.
Why did I form this group, Former Muslims United? I felt extremely saddened when I saw children fleeing their homes in fear for their lives because they are apostates. We are going to have many more Rifqa Barys. I know kids in Los Angeles who are not attending mosques, and their parents are threatening them. We have not been speaking up. We have been in hiding. But now I have formed this group with Ibn Warraq, Wafa Sultan, Muhammad Asghar, Amil Imani. We are also calling upon Muslim leaders to sign our pledge. It is on our website. We hope that all the good and peace-loving Muslim groups will sign our pledge to show that they reject tyranny and fear. The worst kind of tyranny is when the person who is tyrannized is afraid to speak. We are also trying to reach the Federal Government. We have written to Attorney General Holder. We hope we can all work together to never allow this kind of tyranny to survive in America. The West is doing Muslims no favor with political correctness. By being politically correct, we are empowering those who want to kill us. The religion must pass the litmus test of human rights. By tolerating intolerance, we are telling the victims of Sharia, go fend for yourselves. We cannot help you.
Another ambulance chaser's shameless self prmotion:
Nonie Drawish, "We are living in constant fear of our lives because we have left Islam." (By the way, here's my story, read all about it! Check please!)
Peace
Abdullah
Abdullah-
Frankily, I am impressed by your detailed point-by-point and scholarly refutation of everything Nonie Darwish says.
Such breadth, such wisdom!
Yeah, if in shameless self-promotion you mean in not wanting to be subjected to a violent end by adherents of a child molesting sand-bandit of a false prophet, like you, well . . . It is you Ishmaelites who are shameless. It is you who come into our lands, promote a religion that calls for our subjugation, make use of our excessive tolerance, and then fund (if not outright participate) in acts of cowardly violence from amongst us.
The reason the little arab-wannabee abdullah mikhail posts so obsessively on this website is because he is a paid mouthpiece for cair. abdullah the reverted slave actually gets paid to monitor this site, and, I believe, he gets a little hand-out from his arab masters every time he posts some sort of nonsense.
abdullah the slave is a complete moron. CAIR must be real retards to put their money on that loser, slave to allah! LOL!
AM, ambulance chaser? Well someone might need an ambulance. Don't take it from me. How about from one of your own, put up by Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid.
Yeah, praise be! Send an ambulance!
Oh, that is Fatwa No. 12406 for your records.
Communication with her would be a waste of time...I don't speak "Harpy."
: )
But seriously, communication with any of you is a waste of time because you have certain opinions lodged in your media intoxicated minds and you can't get over them.
Yeah, people do bad things all the time, but not at the behest of religion...they are just bad people.
440,000 Christian Women are violently attacked by their Christian Spouse or Boyfriend in the United States yearly...think about it...and then you explain to me how it's not driven by their faith?
Were they acting as Chrisitans or not?
Peace
Abdullah
UCMJ 894. ART. 94. MUTINY OR SEDITION, go look it up. We in the US Military agree with Sharia on this subject entirely.
And from Dr. Jamal Badawi on same subject:
“Responding to the question, Dr. Jamal Badawi, Member of the European Council for Fatwa and Research and the Fiqh Council of North America, states the following:
There are scholars who distinguish between apostasy on a personal level, which is not punishable by death, and apostasy that is accompanied by what we call today high treason, in which case the punishment is for high treason, not for apostasy."
Peace
Abdullah
Shut your ass Mikey, Nonie Dorwish is an American Patriot Who is telling the truth about Islam.
You on the other hand are a liar, and a coward. A true Abdullah would not hide behind half truths, and jokes.
interpretation is the weaker side of a failure to act according to already set standards.
In other words you are to afraid to live/die in acordance to the laws of your own religion.
Why don't you write a book about your experences as an "Abdullah" in the religion of peace. No one would read it because you have never done nothing but talk, talk, talk.
Thats all you are Mikey, Talk.
You take a back seat to real people like Nonie Dorwish. She is taking a stand against tyranny. You are standing with it. Defending it. Pathetic.
If you are, what you say you are, a decendant of American Indians, and the Irish. (both of whom have known racism) Then your ancesters must be "turning in there graves" at the thought of some one of there blood line standing with tyranny. In the face of truth. you are a disgrace to yours and my people.
If you are what I think you are, a lieing Arab. Then I guess your an inbreed Jihadi fighting a loseing battle against the evils of the west.
The world has enough scaby little reptiles. Don't lay eggs.
Mobamad
Actual fatwa issued at Al-Azhar University in Cairo, the most important institution of islamic law in the sunni worldIn the Name of Allah the Most Beneficient the Most Merciful.
You're right about one thing AM. You are wasting your time here.
"Nonie Dorwish is an American Patriot"
So being a naturalized citizen yellow journalist who cranks out biased little screamers self promoting thereby (and here!) and fills her bank account, being a self serving gold digger, being a religious bigot for profit, smearing all of one group of people based on their own poor upbringing equates to an "American Patriot?"
Boy, you sure do lower the bar when you want to piss and moan, don't you?
Altuism, look it up.
I know who I am, I know what the rules are, and I know the work I do...all three are priceless.
In the scope of the real world?
Your opinion matters as much as dryer lint...
: )
Peace
Abdullah
AM, there is no comparison to sharia nonsense and a military law so stop posting irrelevant comparisons.
A military court provides a fair trial, sharia has a group of racist, sexist and homophobic old men hoping to inflict some bizarre torture on a hapless victim.
We know you for what you are, moslem apologist. Peddle your bullshit elsewhere.
"Nonie Dorwish is an American Patriot"
Thats more than I can say for you. You dirty little Nazi.
"I know who I am, I know what the rules are, and I know the work I do...all three are priceless."
Lets break it down shall we.
"I know who I am,"
(So do we you post here every day remember?)
"I know what the rules are,"
Rule#1 Lie
Rule#2 Steal
Rule#3 Rape
Rule#4 Abuse
Rule#5 Murder
Rule#666 Follow the way of the demon Mohammed in rules 1-5
"and I know the work I do..."
If you don't work for CAIR, then you don't work at all. I realize that defending Islam must seem like a full time job but with out CAIR its only a hobbie.
"all three are priceless."
1jo2:22,23
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].
Rev6:8
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
(Hey, the Mahdi comes riding on a white horse,Hmmm? Weird.)
Rev20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
(Repent or you are cooked dude. You are already spiritualy dead, the living dead to be exact.)
With out the KING of KING's You are going to the fire.
Reject the lies of Satan (Allah)
Accept the TRUTH of the WORD of GOD.
Jesus Christ said: I am the TRUTH the WAY and the LIFE. No one comes to the FATHER except through the SON.
Okay Mikey, Im done now you are excused... Shoo fly.
Abdullah,
You wrote "Yeah, people do bad things all the time, but not at the behest of religion...they are just bad people."
What about Ali Mohamed Dirie, a Canadian born in Somalia, who called white people the "number 1 filthiest people on the face of the planet. They don't have Islam. They're the most filthiest people" and was trying to create bombs to kill as many kuffars as possible?
He CERTAINLY did what he did at the behest of religion. He was quoting the Qu'ran there and thought we were fit for death because of the teachings of Islam.
Furthermore, you wrote "But seriously, communication with any of you is a waste of time because you have certain opinions lodged in your media intoxicated minds and you can't get over them."
If it's such a waste of time whhy don't you take your own advice and never come back here? Please?
Abdullah,
One more thing; Ms. Darwish would definitely be marked for death, even by your "treason" standards, because she is an apostate who speaks out against Islam, and that qualifies as treason to Muslims, against all logic and things like the fact that Islam isn't a country.
So, your point was, what, exactly?
Mikey has been put in his place, and his place is fear. He is afraid. Scared, dare I say it? Chickenshit.
Mikey stop pointing the finger at Nonie and point it where it belongs, at the mirror
"called white people"
I believe you can end the questioning right there and sum it up with that one comment. He is a racial bigot.
In Islam, there is no special consideration given to any human being either high or low because of race.
So, what follows? If he grossly misunderstood that basic concept, what else has he "misunderstood" of the religion?
My guess would be plenty.
And as for why I choose to post the truth here? Altruism.
There is a the truth and it must be told. What you do with it is none of my concern.
Peace
Abdullah
"In Islam, there is no special consideration given to any human being either high or low because of race."
But Muslims are 'the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind' Are Jews and Christians (whites included) accorded that in Islam? 'Apes and pigs', 'number 1 filthiest people on the face of the planet', doesn't bode well with your claim AM.
Such humanitarians.
An excellent example that helps to expose the impotent yet obtusely persistent tactics of Abdullah Mikail (AM) here at JW comes from this thread:
At 12:45 pm, the commenter "Sounder" posted a definitive proof of apostasy's Islamic punishment being death, by citing a fatwa from Al Azhar university issued in 1978.
We know that AM was present in this thread at around that time, because following Sounder's comment, we see AM had posted a comment at 12:47 pm.
Then it is significant what we don't see. We don't see AM responding to Sounder's post at all, as the time goes by. Finally, there is a post by AM at 2:32 pm, nearly two hours after Sounder's post -- so we know that AM had the time and opportunity to respond.
This reveals one of the more practiced among AM's tactics: he cherrypicks what comments he thinks he can exploit to his advantage, and avoids like the deathly plague those comments that deliver the incontrovertible home run -- as Sounder's comment does. Even someone of AM's challenged mentation is probably just barely smart enough to realize that his usual style of tap-dancing and obfuscation would not work in response to Sounder's comment, but would most likely backfire against him (Of course, all of AM's attempts backfire -- but I am talking about his self-perception here.) So, what does AM do? Why, he has recourse to yet another of his many tricks & tactics from his taqiyya & kitman kit-bag, the most pathetic of all, though one he has no shame in indulging: namely, to simply ignore the challenge and pretend like it doesn't exist.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/09/im-here-in-washington-at.html#comment-604053
"There is a the truth and it must be told. What you do with it is none of my concern."
you know nothing of truth, all you know is lies.
Then you defend your lies. You actualy believe them.
WOW!
"In Islam, there is no special consideration given to any human being either high or low because of race."
(Dont ask him about gender)Uh oh...
"So, what follows? If he grossly misunderstood that basic concept, what else has he "misunderstood" of the religion?"
YOU GROSSLY MISSUNDERSTAND YOUR OWN RELIGION! Or you are lieing. Pick one.
Man, you are sliping hard dude! Get a grip.
Too bad Walid Shoe-bat didn't show up, then you'd have the trifecta of "former Muslims."
AbdullahMikail: "UCMJ 894. ART. 94. MUTINY OR SEDITION, go look it up. We in the US Military agree with Sharia on this subject entirely."
So you are saying that Islam is not a religion, that it is a military organisation? I could agree with that.
"440,000 Christian Women are violently attacked by their Christian Spouse or Boyfriend in the United States yearly...think about it...and then you explain to me how it's not driven by their faith?
Were they acting as Chrisitans or not?"
No, they were not. Find me a sentence where Jesus said "Beat your wives.." You would be hard pressed to find a Christian (or Jewish) authority who would disagree with me. Just because a Christian may behave badly, does not mean he will find an excuse for that behaviour in scripture. Which is the real difference between Jews/Christians and Muslims, isn't it?
The other difference is that the Christian priest or preacher will provide counselling, the Imam will provide congratulations.
Hesperado,
You have hit the nail on the head here re: AM. He doesn't respond at all (usually) to the many points that are substantive and, therefore, uncomfortable for him.
I said in this very thread that Ms. Darwish would qualify to his "treason" definition, thereby making his argument irrelevant. His response: nothing, but he did latch on to the only thing he could; namely the apparent racism of the Dallas bomber from a different comment of mine.
By the way, I just wanted to say how much I admire your writing style and wish I had as firm a grasp on the language as you do.
Abdullah,
On the one hand, you claim that commenting here is a waste of your time.
On the other hand, you say you're doing it for altruism.
So, it's altruistic of you to waste your time? That makes a lot of sense.
Finally, you actually think that the sedition ruling you keep quoting is comparable to Sharia law. Really? Does that mean you think Ms. Darwish deserves death?
And what is this truth you think needs to be told. Do you think it's true that no Muslim anywhere was actually inspired by the Qu'ran to commit violence on Islam's behalf? Do you think it's true that there are no violent verses in the Qu'ran? Do you think it's true that jihad never, ever means holy war?
What is truth here? Apparently we just don't see it. So, feel free to altruistically waste your time and enlighten us.
Thanks Bad Mo Foe,
AM's tactic of simply avoiding certain questions is really the ultimate exposure of his impotence. Unfortunately, this particular type of venue of debate tends to give some cover to that tactic. Snakes like AM can slip and slither in and out, and can feign that they were busy or gone, can exploit the questions and challenges of several other commenters to cherrypick from in the meantime, and then he can just wait for a thread to get old and buried under an avalanche of newer threads on top of it, etc. To really nail someone like AM down, it would have to be a live real-time debate before an audience (either spectators in a real auditorium or readers/listeners in a chat room) and recorded so that his words can be recovered if he claims he didn't say something. Also, I think it is imperative that the person debating him should strictly maintain a tactic I have called for before: stick to one point and one point only, until AM has answered it to the satisfaction of basic logic. Don't add a second point, don't embellish, don't get emotional, don't say anything else about anything -- not even the slightest word: act like a robot or machine and persist with one point at a time until he answers it. Under that kind of spotlight, even if he tries to evade the question, his pathetic bankruptcy will become crystal clear. Or possibly, better yet, he might just admit to certain things he carefully tries to hide otherwise.
I would just like to advise Mrs. Darwish to get in touch with Mark Gabriel who wrote the book "Islam and Terrorism" and other books exposing the horrors of Islam. He is an Egyptian apostate, he was a professor of Islamic History at Al Azhar University in Cairo and had memorized the Koran by the age of 12. At some point he began to see all the discrepencies and falsehoods contained in the Koran and stopped believing. This made him ill, and when he went to the pharmacy to get some medicine, he mentioned his problem to the pharmacist, who with his pills gave him a book wrapped up. At home this book turned out to be a Bible, which he read and which gave him the religion he had been yearning for. He became a Christian, was put into prison and tortured but because of his distinguished family was released. His father and other members of his family tried to kill him, he managed to escape to South Africa where he managed to convert some Moslems. There also several attempts were made on his life, he was wounded in the neck. Now he lives in USA and is a professor of Christianity. He came to speak against the Saudi Academy in Fairfax County, Virginia and is on the video. I met him when he came to speak in Munich, he is a very nice man, a genuine and a fervent Christian. He should be on your executive committee. His book is straight from the horse's mouth and discloses all the horrors of Islam and its perpetrators.
I belong to a little circle of philosophers, two of whom are ex-Moslems. Ali from Iran said that Moslems ARE racist,
they do not like dark-skinned people, they think that people with Arab blood are superior to all others. Just look at Sudan, the tan Arabs in the north are killing the black Moslems in the south. The fact that Moslems are not supposed to kill Moslems does not count, Moslems kill whomever they want.
I would just also like to say that the word "love" does not appear in the Koran, love as we know it in the West is considered whoredom in Islam. Marriage is just legalized sex [no sex outside of marriage] and the husband and wife are not expected to "love" each other, they are only supposed to abide by the rules of Islam. That's why all these arranged marriages, because Mohammed said any Moslem man could be married to any Moslem woman and the marriage would work as long as they followed the rules and regulations of Islam. So the parents look around for the best and richest possibility for their daughter, even an uncle to keep the money in the family.
The Bible is built on the idea of love, a famous Christmas carol says "Love Came Down" when Jesus was born, and of course the famous verse "God is Love". When Christians get away from Catholic dogma and abide by Christ's words, they are loving and considerate and live on a high spiritual level. Islam cannot be compared to Christianity.
I am delighted that this organization has been founded, it will help many closet Christians and atheists to live their lives as they so wish. We are guaranteed "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", which means each individual is protected by the government, and is free to decide for himself how he wants to live his life. Anything else is slavery.
"When Christians get away from Catholic dogma and abide by Christ's words, they are loving and considerate and live on a high spiritual level. Islam cannot be compared to Christianity."
Sarastro,
Dude, thank you. thats what I keep saying. as a mater of fact I think that is the reason I was "banished" from intense debate, not because of MANY nasty statements about Islam. But as soon as I said what you just said about the Cahtolic dogma, and tradition in the Catholic curch. I was "banished" for life. Im still baned from posting on intense debate because of it. Weird Huh?
Mobamad
(Hesperado, taking your cue about sticking with one topic):
Abdullah,
I have one question.
Do you think that Nonie Darwish should be put to death for her "treason" against Islam?
Answer this one question please.
Bad Mo Foe, you might have to keep asking AM. If you can, repeat your question in newer threads whenever you see him pop up. Good luck!
Sarastro,
I liked your post, but not this:
"When Christians get away from Catholic dogma and abide by Christ's words, they are loving and considerate and live on a high spiritual level. "
You were doing so well otherwise.