But remember: Pat Robertson is the real threat. Islamic Tolerance Alert: "Wave of Homophobia Sweeps the Muslim World," by Juliane von Mittelstaedt and Daniel Steinvorth for Spiegel, September 17 (thanks to all who sent this in):
In most Islamic countries, gay men and women are ostracized, persecuted and in some cases even murdered. Repressive regimes are often fanning the flames of hatred in a bid to outdo Islamists when it comes to spreading "moral panic."
Bearded men kidnapped him in the center of Baghdad, threw him into a dark hole, chained him down, urinated on him, and beat him with an iron pipe. But the worst moment for Hisham, 40, came on the fourth day of his ordeal when the kidnappers called his family. He was terrified they would tell his mother that he is gay and that this was the reason they had kidnapped him. If they did he would never be able to see his family again. The shame would be unbearable for them.
"Do what you want to me, but don't tell them," he screamed.
Instead of humiliating him in the eyes of his family, the kidnappers demanded a ransom of $50,000 (€33,000), a huge sum for the average Iraqi family. His parents had to go into debt and sell off all of their son's possessions in order to raise the money required to secure his freedom. Shortly after they received the ransom the kidnappers threw Hisham out of their car somewhere in the northern part of Baghdad. They decided not to shoot him and let him go. But they sent him on his way with a warning: "This is your last chance. If we ever see you again, we'll kill you."
That was four months ago. Hisham has since moved to Lebanon. He told his family that he had decided to flee the violence and terror in Baghdad and that he had found work in Beirut. Needless to say he didn't disclose the fact that he is unable to live in Iraq because of the death squads who are out hunting for "effeminate-looking" men.
In Baghdad a new series of murders began early this year, perpetrated against men suspected of being gay. Often they are raped, their genitals cut off, and their anuses sealed with glue. Their bodies are left at landfills or dumped in the streets. The non-profit organization Human Rights Watch, which has documented many of these crimes, has spoken of a systematic campaign of violence involving hundreds of murders.
Restoring 'Religious Morals'
A video clip showing men dancing with each other at a party in Baghdad in the summer of 2008 is thought to have triggered this string of kidnappings, rapes, and murders. Thousands of people have seen it on the Internet and on their cell phones. Islamic religious leaders began ranting about the growing presence of a "third sex" which American soldiers were said to have brought in with them. The followers of radical Shiite leader Muqtada al-Sadr, in particular, felt the need to take action aimed at restoring "religious morals."...
I think it's one of the great achievements of Western society that we tolerate and respect other people's sexual orientation. It took us a long time to get there. When I see how gays are treated in Islamic barbarism, I can only shiver, it's disgusting.
Last year a gay model was dragged from the catwalk and beaten up so badly, that he needed to be hospitalised. That happened in the Netherlands, the most tolerant country in Europe. I don't need to mention who did that, only no Protestant or Catholic Dutch were involved. Islam is a disgrace to mankind.
"In Baghdad a new series of murders began early this year, perpetrated against men suspected of being gay. Often they are raped, their genitals cut off, and their anuses sealed with glue."
This is just evil, but what I don't quite get is....
You punish a man for being gay by RAPING HIM?????
Doesn't that make the person doing the raping gay too?
As usual with most things Islamic it makes no sense.
Is this one of the holy rites of Islam where anything is justified providing you pray whislt you do it?
How do people become so twisted?
Unveiled-
Male on male rape is practically the NORM in Arab countries especially older brothers of their younger brothers. That is 'normal'. Two men to have a 'relationship' or care about each other at all now to them that is SICK SICK SICK. Some culture huh?
it is admissable to have sex with objects in islam, such as goats and camels,,, and women objectified to the point of being deemed useless beyond becoming the "tilth" of some savage,,, just a pile of dirt for a pile of dirt. so,,, there is no "sin" in raping either men or women in that bassackward 7th century bedouin morality (read: lack of morality). and of course, anything is admissable once a soul agrees that pedophilia is an established social more praticed by allahs most excellent creation.
what i find puzzlin': where's the world-wide gay outrage over the treatment of their (br)others and (s)/misters ;+}> at the hands of these despicable "intolerant, conservative religionists"
as a Christian who was raised by, along with by parents and grandparents, my lesbian aunt who lived openly with her "gf" in the early '50's in stockton, ca. i ran with the gay crowd myself for a few years,,, though not being gay, i experimented. many friends throughout my 59 years have been, and are, gay. my young (33) neighbor, whom i rock hound with, is both bah`ai and bi... double whammy for an intolerant, conservative religionist.
anyway,,, G_d is love. we are imperfect vessels of His love and grace,,, or we are not. it is obvious that love is not a factor in the ideology of mohammed. Peace, in His love
Yes, I get it. It's just the same as their relations with women,all the perverted,twisted domination & uncontrolled lust with non of the love.
Poetcomic1, it isn't just rape that is common, but consensual homosexual sex is an everyday thing among inbred bedouin savage A-rab mahoundian males. Of course they don't call it gay, but rather prison sex.
And let's not forget how mahound itself (not himself) was also into "prison sex", as Father Zakaria Botros once noted in the series The Perverse Sexual Habits of the Prophet:
According to this hadith, a man named Zahir, who used to declare that “the prophet loves me,” said that one day Muhammad crept unawares behind him and put him in a bear-hug. Zahir, alarmed, yelled, “Get off me!” After turning his head and discovering that it was Muhammad, he stopped struggling and proceeded to “push his back into the prophet’s chest—prayers and blessings upon him."
Another curious hadith contained in Sunan Bayhaqi and which traces to Sunan Abu Dawud (one of the six canonical hadith collections), has Muhammad lifting up his shirt for a man who proceeded to kiss his entire torso, “from his bellybutton to his armpits.”
And they still have the nerve to bash and persecute those who aren't hypocrites about their homosexuality or bisexuality.
My niece's husband told us that older Afgan men always looked to rape younger men and boys, they even tried it on the younger looking Canadian military men. one afgan man told him that women are only for getting pregnant and boys are for fun. when you have a sick cult like islam that prevents women from mixing with men, ie football games, shopping without their men relatives you create this void of socializing with the opposite sex in a normal setting. islam is a sick cult that belongs in the past dead and burried.
Robert, you forgot the homophobic Christian Action network...
Aiyayiayi, these clowns get to me, with their wretched posturing about Christianity and gutlessness about Islam.
A 40 year old man who is afraid to tell his mummy he's gay? How very sad.
Thank goodness my darling daughter was able to freely speak to us about her sexual preference. She and her gay friends - male and female - are always welcome in our home.
Islam is so sick and twisted. From "Winds of Jihad", June 2008:
OTTAWA -Canadian soldiers in the main guard tower at forward operating base Wilson last summer winced when I asked about the sudden lineup of teenage boys along the mud walls of the neighbouring Afghan market.
“Wait a few minutes. You’ll see,” said one, his lip curling. “It’s disgusting.”
Sure enough, a handful of uniformed Afghan police officers emerged from their rundown detachment, walked through the barricades and started chatting up the dozen or so teens, some looking decidedly pre-teen.
A few minutes after they returned, the selected kids were waved through the main gates and went straight inside the police station. An hour later, when I left the observation post, the boys were still inside.
This evening ritual is often derided by soldiers as man-love Thursdays.
Afghan officials insist the notion of men and boys getting together the night before the Muslim holy day for sex is a myth. And, sure, it’s theoretically possible the cops were merely good-deed-doers giving these teens reading lessons.
But Canadian soldiers insisted we had just witnessed the regular Thursday evening negotiation for sex between Afghan men and boys, apparently for gifts or money.....
The Toronto Star also reports a Canadian soldier overheard an Afghan soldier abusing a young boy in late 2006 and later saw the victim with signs of rape trauma, specifically protrusions of his bowels and lower intestine."
Disgusting isn't the word for islamic sexual practices.
Muslims get away with this among the PC MC in the West (who are dominant and mainstream) because Muslims are perceived to be the most privileged Ethnic Minority.
There is no "puzzle" about this.
Fred Phelps and his whole demented family should move to one of those countries since like their jihadist counterparts, they too hate gays and lesbians.
Unveiled, Poet Comic, and Proud Kaffir, you couldn't be more correct. Islam tolerates--or even promotes--homosexual sex, as long as it is unequal and coercive--rape, pedophilia, "prison sex", or if it is used as a form of punishment and humiliation.
It is when the sex is completely consensual--or 'worse', accompanied by love and affection, that it is contemplated with violent disgust by "good Muslims".
I'm glad the gay Iraqi man in the article above was able to get out with his life--to an at least somewhat safer place--but many of his fellows have not been so lucky (if anyone who has gone through his horrific ordeal can be considered "lucky").
The only safe place in the Middle East for gays--no surprise here--is Israel itself. Palestinian gay groups are headquartered, not in Gaza or the West Bank, but in Tel Aviv.
The only bright spot in this whole page is Hesperado's quoting Canadian soldiers disgusted by homosexual abuse of teenaged and younger boys by Afghan Muslim men. It makes me proud to be a North American (albeit from the other side of the 49th parallel).
Maybe one reason why loathing of homosexuality is widespread among Muslims is the fact that there are probably lots of victims of unwanted homosexual activity in the Muslim population. Such people probably don't need a theological justification for being disgusted when homosexuality brazenly parades itself. Believe it or not, such guys have my CHRISTIAN SYMPATHY. Unwanted sexual attention, whether dished out to boys, weaker men, or females, is a very damaging thing. Perhaps, if I'd been subjected to what they were subjected to, I'd be sore tempted to forget Paul's adage that the weapons of our warfare are spiritual rather than carnal should I be in a position to exact vengeance on the perp.
I have seen ponytailed Western men who know they're HIV-positive prowling the streets of poor countries in search of very young male sexual partners while telling themselves they're helping poor folks. In North Carolina, there's a case of a man who advertised sex with his five-year-old adopted son online. Can exposing one's genitals to fecal residue be healthy? I don't believe so.
If acceptance of such a lifestyle is supposed to be "progressive", I thank God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit--not the Unitarian deity of the Hejazi cube-cult) that he has given me a very reactionary heart and gut on this issue.
Nor can I see the gay, lesbian, and transgendered crowd as an ally against jihad. They're generally part of the multi-cultie-PeeCee set that sees evil only in Christians who dare to simply quote Scripture as it has stood for millennia; and are always ready to bleat "yes, yes" to everything an Armstrong or Esposito says.
I thought Pat Robertson was gay. I mean, he does dress very well and all.
Islam seems to be of two minds regarding male homosexuality. Officially, it is condemned and oppressed. However, there is widespread male gay activity that seems to revolve around older men dominating young men. By any standard, Islamic culture revolves aroung violence, cruelty and submission, and this is reflected in all the forms of sexuality found in Islamic culture.
Muslims are sexually schizophrenic:
1) they are obsessed with "purity" following Mohammed's obsession with "purity"
2) they find ways through their Islamic loopholes built in by Mohammed to indulge in all kinds of supposedly "impure" sex, including the most unspeakably grotesque and ghoulish types of sexual acts.
Mohammed himself was sexually schizophrenic. And everything Mohammed said and did, including the way he picked his nose and held his pecker to piss, became the Islam that Muslims must follow.
Kepha
read this:
http://www.merip.org/mer/mer206/bruce.htm
Because I think you're missing something. You're arguing that those who murder homosexuals in Iraq, rape them (before and/ or after murdering them?), cut off their genitals (before or after they're dead?) and super-glued his anus, are acting out of righteous anger - by executing him for being a rapist/ seducer of little boys; they are acting to avenge their own youthful trauma. But: what if those same 'punishers' of an adult gay guy are in fact habitually rape-sodomising their wives, their daughters (as Hannah Shah's dad the imam did to *her*), their little sisters and their own younger brothers, male nephews and male cousins?
What happens to your theory if the norm for males in dar al Islam is: get raped by the bigger guys while you're a little guy and are seen as weak and subordinate (i.e until you grow a beard); BUT THEN as soon as you grow big enough and get a beard and some muscles, it becomes *your* turn to rape whoever's younger and smaller (little sister, little brother, a young non-kin boy) than you are?
Tanstaafl: agreed. I have come to suspect that the central paradigm of Islam is master-slave dominator-dominated rapist-raped murderer-murderee. Zero-sum game: there cannot be equality or mutuality or reciprocity between any two human beings, or between a husband and wife, or a ruler and the subjects; one must Dominate, absolutely; the other must be Dominated, absolutely.
Because of that all-pervading zero-sum 'For me to feel I have WON, you must LOSE/ YOU ARE DESTROYED' paradigm, politics and social life tend to collapse into despotism, enslavement and, finally, murder, often mass murder: because the purest expression of amoral allah-like power, of complete and absolute domination of the subordinate, is to murder the subordinate. If one 'must' stop short of murder, then allah's hand is fettered, so to speak. The sadistic mass-murdering caprice of so many Islamic tyrants - the Ottoman caliphs, Saddam Huseein - mirrors the sadistic caprice of allah.
Sex collapses into pedophilia (of adult males with prepubescent or barely pubescent juveniles, both male and female), rape (irrespective of the gender of the victim: all that matters is that the rapist is able to dominate the raped), into bestiality (the object of the abuse can't talk back or tell tales, and may be slaughtered afterward and sold to someone else to be eaten: and it's this paradigm applied to *women* - rape first, then murder, which we saw in those awful stories out of the Iranian prisons), into the use of inanimate objects - 'for ecstasy, a melon!' or - worse - corpses. The nullifying of the female capacity for pleasure in sex, by the practice of FGM, (which often makes sex, for the woman, not merely non-pleasurable, but an experience of fear and pain) fits into this zero-sum mentality: the woman, as Dominated, should get NOTHING out of the experience; the man, as Dominator, is supposed to get everything. Winner take all.
Here's something really disturbing, from an article called 'Boys of the Taliban' by Jamie Glazov:
"Bruce Dunne has demonstrated, sex in Islamic-Arab societies is not about mutuality between partners, but about the adult male's achievement of pleasure through violent domination" (Bruce Dunne, “Power and Sexuality in the Middle East,” Middle East Report, Spring 1998).
Kepha - I don't know whether you've read this article, 'To Rape an Unveiled Woman' -
http://www.frontpagemag.com/articles/Read.aspx?GUID=473928E3-18E1-4E4E-ADF6-1AD796E3D400
I quote:
"The personal literary reports and the official UN analyses on Islamic family dynamics concur in a somewhat disquieting aspect.
"They confirm not only the tendency to incest but also an even stronger attitude towards anal sexuality, meaning an unusually high percentage of males preferring anal intercourse to vaginal, *especially in the framework of "normal" marital life* {my emphasis added - dda}."
And again, this:
"There is no "culture" in the world where more married people practice anal intercourse than in Islam".
The Ummah is Bizarro-world; Freud's phrase 'polymorphous perversity' hardly begins to cover it.
dumbledoresarmy, your presentation failed to account for the other half of the equation -- the powerful propensity for "purity" in Islam with regard to sex. Islam is not merely a carnival of polymorphous sexual perversions as, for example, a simplistic Satanic cult, or an orgiastic Masters & Johnson soiree in the 1950s, might be. It is that but it is much stranger even than that by itself: Islam's polymorphous sexual perversity is also ensconced in a context of an obsession with "purity". Thus my phrase "sexual schizophrenia" is needed to capture that extra paradoxical strangeness.
Hesperado - it may be that 'purity' means something different in Islamspeak, from what it means for us non-Muslims.
Just as, in Islam the bizarrerie of the Quran-Sira-Hadith is 'knowledge' and all non-Muslim art and wisdom is 'ignorance', and the horrors of jihad warfare are 'justice and mercy' (to the victims), and the cruelty and violence of sharia is called 'justice'.
Dumbledore, I am not justifying murder. I am only warning that "normalizing" one serious sin only opens the way for worse and worse ones. Peace, Bro.