In Pakistan: Village of German jihadists, converts to Islam

So, they're "white" and "German", but "many [are] of North African descent," or Eritrean, or Turkish. At least they're out of Germany, and why Germany might be concerned about them, beyond identifying them so they can be denied re-entry to Germany, is a mystery to me.

l do not think they like the European winters, and while in the pak they can hate out in the open without impunity. good riddance.

It may not be noteworthy that the people there are "white."

But it should be noted that the Pakistanis who were given billions to their part against Talibanization of their country act as if they just discovered it by chance.

Of course Islam and Islamic jihad is not about race. But to pretend that Europeans in Waziristan can move about unnoticed is just as implausible as the whereabouts of Zawahiri and bin Laden.

The Pakistani secret service has its spies everywhere. The Al Qaeda bosses have private armies to protect them, they're not just living in caves. To pretend not to know where they are hauled up is simply not acceptable.

The Pakistani ruling clique has much to answer for.

Now, you might wonder, why so many jihadists are coming from a small suburb of a small town called Bonn in Germany. Well, this is no coincidence. This is due to the king-fahd-acadamy, which is situated there and financed by saudi Arabia....

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6nig-Fahd-Akademie

http://www.faz.net/s/RubA24ECD630CAE40E483841DB7D16F4211/Doc~ED1FBC6641B984E4FB16135D72E2472A4~ATpl~Ecommon~Scontent.html

They teach jihad against non-muslims. This has been known for years, but the government still hasn't closed down the school... This is clearly stated in the faz-article of June 23 2004. The FAZ is the most prestigious daily news paper in Germany (comparable to the NY Times in the USA)...

The reason I would surmise why they don't close the schools is that they want them to be up front and center, unless they are about to expel or kill off those people, its better to leave them with their crazy thoughts where they can see them.

Now there will come a time when Germany will freak out and go all medieval on them, but not yet, just like in France I figure it will happen but right now they are really not that much a danger to the populous. Yes I know they are dangerous but they can be taken care off just like regular criminals, if they ever become a real danger to society you think german will not pounce on them?

I have know German soldier, they are not weak or scare, and if they need to get nasty Germans still have it in them big time.

Not sure about the French, but I figure if it comes to it, any society will go all medieval on a minority that is trying to screw them, UK that one I am not sure, they do seem to be having issues with identity there.

"Die the death of honour."

Self fulfilling prophesy...With Allah behind you, you can't miss...Go for it...

Hey - who's this Pamela? I sent this report in as soon as it appeared in the newspaper so how come she gets the big thank you and not me, eh? Pah!

The fact that they have identified them as "white" is a good thing. It will begin to subliminally educate the masses that jihad is indeed, not about race.

This analysis is in need of a massage to iron out a few kinks and wrinkles.

The Telegraph refers to these converts as "white," as if their race were something noteworthy. In reality, as I have stated here several billion times, the jihad is not a racial issue

Nevertheless, there are the numbers. The vast majority of Muslims are non-white. This is because historically, Islam happened to arise in and conquer non-white lands (save for a marginal few areas in SE Europe and west central Asia). Similarly, reflecting this demographic fact, the vast majority so far of violent Muslims ("jihadists") have also been non-white. This demographic disparity reflects a complex of cultural facts: namely, the predominantly white composition of the West; the predominantly non-white composition of Islam; and the predominantly non-Islamic character of the West.

Thus, the existence of a camp of white Western jihadists in the hinterland of Waziristan is indeed remarkable. To acknowledge these simple yet massive facts does not oblige one to adopt racist attitudes. It just so happens that Islam historically and right up to our present has been predominantly a movement among non-white non-Westerners; while on the other side of the coin, it just so happens that the West has been historically and into our present predominantly a civilization of whites. It is to the credit of the latter civilization that it has learned to progress to embrace so many non-whites in various ways into its societies and institutions. Nevertheless, this virtue has in the last few decades also acquired a peculiar warp of irrational excess, leading to a dominant and mainstream paradigm that in fact has everything to do with why the West remains obstinantly myopic to the danger of Islam. And that paradigm would have little or no traction, were Muslims not predominantly non-white (and, with added spice, "ethnic" in a non-Western sense).

However, this brings us to our next wrinkle. It turns out from a closer reading of the article that an indefinite number of these so-called white jihadists are in fact of mixed ethnicities:

According to German foreign ministry officials a growing number of German families, many of North African descent, have taken up the offer and travelled to Waziristan where supporters say converts make up some of the insurgents' most dedicated fighters...

Last night a foreign ministry spokesman told The Daily Telegraph they were now negotiating with Pakistani authorities for the release of six Germans, including "Adrian M", a white Muslim convert, his Eritrean wife and their four year old daughter...

The phrasing of this reported detail indicates that there was only this one white German among the six -- else the article would have taken the same trouble to point out the other whites among them, if that were the case.

Their recruitment drive has been led by "Abu Adam", a 24-year-old German believed to be of Turkish or North African descent...

It could be that what is actually remarkable about this jihad camp is that there are so many Westerners, albeit of mixed ethnicities where the admixture pertains to Islamic lands, and one or two whites among them. Thus, it would have been even more "remarkable" -- i.e., outside the norm we have seen thus far among jihadists -- had this jihadist camp really been composed completely of white Germans who never had any "Turkish" or "North African" descent. So far, the white jihadists we have seen function as the exception to the rule, not as some kind of norm.

The mainstream dominance of the PC MC paradigm is based on the dogma of reverse racism. This dogma has been solidly established for decades now. Thus:

"...despite the best efforts of the mainstream media, CAIR, and libelblogger Charles Johnson to make it into [a racist issue]."

The mainstream media, CAIR and CJ don't have to lift a little finger to make it a racist issue. They have the full backing of the entire West behind them, and decades of solidly established dogma of reverse racism -- by which whenever non-whites are criticized for anything, the critics become automatically "racists". Now that Muslims have become, since 9/11, the #1 Most Privileged Ethnic People in the world in the eyes of the PC MC establishment, it's open season on all critics of Islam.

What the analysis doesn't seem to assimilate is the full implications of the difference between reality, and political reality. According to reality, Islam is not a race and the opposition to Islam is not racially based. According to political reality, however, Islam is a race -- a global rainbow of lovely non-white races, a veritable world tapestry of peoples -- yellow, ochre, beige, brown and black who wear lovely ethnic garb of the most wondrous international variety -- and anyone who dares to criticize their unifying culture in any significant way risks incurring the vilification of the "racist".

One may as well beat one's head against a brick wall as to think one can navigate this issue without stepping through the landmine-ridden field of this political reality. Indeed, Spencer seems to have a glimmer of this in his complaint that he has had to "have stated here several billion times" that Islam is not a race. However, the very fact that it has to be repeated "several billion times" indicates that the tack of simply repeating the mantra "Islam is not a race" is not doing much good in this regard. All the PC MCs have to do is look at the objects (whether direct or indirect) of the Islamorealist criticism: nine times out of ten, they will see a sea of non-white ethnic faces, and that telegraphs an electric jolt to their balls that the critics, whether they admit it or not, are racists, or crypto-racists at worst. And to the hyperanxious minds of the PC MCs, criticism of non-whites by whites is all too perilously liable to become oppression, rounding up, putting in camps, and genocide -- because, after all, that's how evil us whites are at heart. We're just waiting for an excuse to wax evil against non-whites, you see. And this demonization of Muslims is just the ticket.

Finally, there is a subsidiary point of illogic in the analysis:

If the jihad were about race, and the jihad resistance were about race, then anti-jihadists would not oppose jihadists like John Walker Lindh, Adam Gadahn and David Hicks -- all white converts to Islam.

I don't think this follows. Imagine if there were a white movement that was highly critical of blacks, so much so that there was a question this white movement was racist. Now, imagine this white movement is opposed to a movement of blacks that is trying to galvanize black opposition to whites. The white movement of course would be opposed to the blacks in the black movement. Now imagine that a few whites have joined the black movement: would this allegedly racist white movement not also oppose those few whites who have joined the black movement, and consider them traitors and therefore enemies just as much as the blacks? Of course. So the logic of the analysis on this point fails. Even if the anti-Islamic movement were racist in motivation, it doesn't take much of a stretch to see that a John Walker Lindh would be seen as a traitor to the anti-Islamic racist cause. Similar charges of betrayal and treason have been leveled by white KKKs in the past against other whites who defended blacks.

...equally absurd is the idea that the German jihadist village in Pakistan is noteworthy because the people there are "white." It is actually noteworthy because (among other reasons) the people there are deep believers in the jihad doctrine and Islamic supremacism, and because the fact that they are converts to Islam shows that active jihadist recruitment is a key element of Islamic dawah -- proselytizing -- in Europe.

This ignores the continuing fact that this kind of dawah that seduces non-Muslim Westerners (most of whom are white) into jihadism remains rare -- even the dawah that seduces non-Muslim Westerners to ostensibly harmless Islam remains rare. So the white factor, among the others the analysis adduces, is also part of the remarkable nature of this jihadist camp, and to deny it is silly.

All these wrinkles and kinks that require massage seem to bespeak a bit of jitteriness and anxiety about the accusation of "racism" -- a jitteriness and anxiety that would rather contort itself into logical knots in order to avoid that accusation rather than stand boldly with the facts to which rationally no such accusation can adhere.

http://bnp.org.uk/2009/09/forever-aliens-third-generation-muslims-in-europe-flock-to-“german”-al-qaeda-camp/

As has been already stated - they aren't white. The telegraph lies all the time, and has journalistic standards on par with a tabloid.

Hesperado

I have a few questions here.

First: I am going to state categorically that without 'Jerusalem' there would *be* no 'Western Civilisation' as we know it today.

Abraham, Moses, Joshua, David, Isaiah, Jesus/ Yeshua, Shimon son of Jonah aka Kephas/ Peter, and former rabbi Shaul/ Paul, plus the testifiers John (Jochanaan), Matthew and Mark.

Do *they* belong, speaking purely in terms of their likely dna and their linguistic/ historical cultural/ social formation, to the Indo-European Caucasian bloc?

Were they - geographically and genetically - either White or Western, in the way that you are currently using those terms?

And were Jews in, say, the 17th, 18th, 19th or early 20th century, anywhere in Europe, generally accepted as White and/ or Western?

Now: which peoples exactly, speaking which languages, of what ethnic ancestry, and living in which countries, are White, in *your* view? And which are not?

(Bear in mind that if one reads books written in, for example, 1930s Australia, one discovers that Italians and Greeks were NOT necessarily viewed as being 'white', by English-speaking people who considered themselves to be White Men; I have read a book in which the author describes with a sort of puzzled distaste a little Australian girl who was the daughter of an Irish-ancestry Catholic mother and Italian immigrant Catholic father; he seems to see her as some kind of weird interspecies hybrid, neither fish nor fowl, doomed to fit in nowhere; rather than seeing what any sensible Catholic would see, namely, a good little Catholic girl !).

The 9/11 hijackers were radicalized in German mosques.

dumbledoresarmy,

The facts you adduce are all true, but they don't eliminate the fact that predominantly the West is white -- they only complicate that fact.

A simple metaphor would elucidate the logical principle:

Consider the following:

1) a glass of water

2) a glass of orange juice

3) a glass of a mixture of 1 and 2 whereby one cannot say with certainty whether it is the one, or the other

and finally,

4) a glass of a mixture of 1 and 2 whereby the one or the other is sufficiently minor such that it does not undermine our certainty whether it is the one, or the other.

The West, I maintain, most reflects #4: it has, and has had, admixtures, but nevertheless it is predominantly white. To argue otherwise, one would have to say that there is no complexion of a people or civilization other than thorough miscegenation of all types -- or at the very least that if this isn't a universal principle, it somehow applies to the West.

Hesperado

I was trying to get at something else.

However one defines 'white', or Caucasian, or what-have-you, I wanted to emphasise that there is NOTHING about possessing north-west European (or northwest European and Latin or Greek? or Indo-European?) *dna*, that necessarily and automatically would have made the thoroughly-barbarian warring, slave-taking, concubine-keeping, headhunting and human-sacrificing tribes of Europe give up all of those practices and slowly, painfully, with many falls and risings, become what we now know and experience as 'the West', *without Christianity*. Tom Cahill's book about Ireland makes that pretty plain.

Every truly distinctive feature of Christianity - including of course its central figure, without whom it ceases to exist - is Hebraic/ Judaic and therefore came into existence OUTSIDE 'the west'. The Jewish philosopher/ theologian Franz Rosenzweig acknowledged this deep continuity of Christianity with Judaism - which marks it off from all other world belief-systems - when he wrote his 'Star of Redemption'. (BTW he sees Islam as essentially a 'pagan' system, having nothing in common with either Christianity or Judaism, in its view of god or of man).

Athens and Rome, Ireland and England and every other nation of the 'west' that one might care to name, are redeemed by, transfigured by, perpetually re-enlivened by, that thing other than themselves which poured itself outward at Pentecost from 'Jerusalem', or perhaps, from 'the House of Israel'. The number of Jews actually present in the West at various times has nothing whatever to do with the shattering impact of what are, at bottom, Jewish ideas - not Greek, not Roman, not anyone else's - invented and formulated by Jews. Remove those ideas and there would *be* no 'west'.

"Blessed art thou, Mary, Mother of God; blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb". Thus the Christians.

And with equal truth they might also say:

"Blessed art thou, Israel, Bearer of God: blessed art thou among peoples, and blessed is the Word that thou bearest".

http://drybonesblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/sukkot-continuity.html

"O Mother Zion!"