Rifqa Bary, long before she was supposedly "brainwashed" by a fiendish Christian fundamentalist pastor, says:
I am sixteen and I love Jesus, I'm crazy how I found the Lord but, people were blown away but, my parents are Muslims, radical, radical Muslims. You guys don't know the history of Islam, it's really hostile towards Christianity and the mere word of Christian can bring such a hatred in them right. I'm a secret Christian, I've been hiding for a long time, three of four years. They can't know of my faith, because if they do know, the consequences are really harsh. Just the culture and background they come from like, is so hostile towards Christianity ....the consequences are great.
Pamela has the video and much important background (go!), including an important warning from Bruce Bawer that goes as much for America as it does for Europe, especially as authorities rush to dismiss the evidence that Rifqa is under threat:
And in many cases they shamefully close their eyes to honor killings. The murders by parents and siblings, of girls and women who in some cases doing no more than looking at a boy the wrong way, have according to Islamic beliefs, soiled family honor. European authorities are so much a prisoner of multiculturalism that they´could actually believe that their obligation in such matters is not to protect innocent children from brutality, but to display sensitivity to cultural difference.
Precious girl - so full of joy and love, she gets it!
off topic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKgK-0HwN30&feature=player_embedded#t=308
So full of life, I trust that she will remain that way despite the best efforts of the islamic zombies.
There are two stodgy looking 18th individuals whose portraits hang in our parlor at my church. In addition to being founding members of my church, these two people ran the Underground Railroad station in this area. The time has come for Americans to start a new Underground Railroad to carry Muslims to life and freedom. As a country, we cannot standby while Muslim apostates are killed for the "crime" of leaving Islam. Freedom of Religion is not just words in a book. If one person loses this right, we all do.
Free Rifqa Bary!
I wonder how many of those of us who profess to be followers of Christ would have the strength of faith to proclaim Him as Rifqa does. I have been questioning my own faith lately, mostly because I am ashamed at my lack of it. If this 17 year old girl can stand in the face of such danger, why am I so complacent in my beliefs? Why do I fear giving up control of my life to the Maker and Creator of all things?
I spent the better part of last night discussing Rifqa, the issue of apostasy, and the differences between Christianity and Islam with a Muslim friend of mine. Each time I asked her a question, or brought up something I'd read in the Koran she gave me, her face went blank, or she said she didn't know the answer, or she parroted the line "it's only the extremists who don't understand Islam..." She's been asking me many questions about my faith (as lacking in word and deed as it is); it seems she's been questioning hers as well. At least she's been reading the Bible I gave her...
Hey daughter_of-eve, you have the chance to give this friend of yours the greatest gift faith has to offer: A healthy alternative to the death-cult of islam (which would be anything other than islam).
She will thank you for it. Be brave and do the right thing.
Get her out.
She talks of the Pastor preaching love and salvation at the pulpit, she does not talk of what Muslims preach in the Mosque....but we know...When given a choice, Christianity wins ... no contest...the promise of death is the only thing keeping Mulims from leaving en masse...fear is the Muslims ally, Allah tells them to use it...
l dont know why there is so much hatred among some Westerners when a Muslim especially a young women has the help of Christians to get away from her family. This young women is almost 18 and if she can keep away from her family she will be old enough to just say no to them. l read on the ligard
CJ's website his hatred for all things Christian. Why cannot this man see the diffence between the death cult of islam and Christianity. why the hatred for Christianity which does profess peace?
fiendish Christians...
There are far too many 'fiends' involved in Rifqa's fate, none of them are Christians...Who are these detestable people anyway? CAIR the Islamic shill is understandable, they have their noses in anything Islamic, but what of the kufrs who insist on gambling with Rifqa's life...Who are they? The fiendish Orlando cesspoolnews, the fiendish writers like that Kruse punk, the Florida authorities and others who would turn her over to her parents...Those who attempt to demonize Rifqa are the real fiends...What gives them the right to play Russian roulette with Rifqa's life...It is they who are fiendish...They should rot in Allah's fake paradise...Not later, today...
I'm not convinced that Rifqa is in danger from her parents, and I know that opinon might raise eyebrows for holding this opinion.
Rifqa's father makes a valid point about "how many muslim families would allow their daughter to be a cheerleader?"
He also believes that she's been brainwashed by this Christian group, something entirely plausible considering her tender age (at conversion) and the allure of the vast assortments of Christian cults.
While I remain a staunch anti-islam kind of guy, I also know that there are plenty of "Christians" out there who would use a girl like this to serve their own agenda.
Just thinking out loud so please don't come down on me too hard.
Rifqa fell in love with Christianity. Being Jewish I can't explain it, but I can understand her. She was attracted by Christian compassion and the love of all mankind which is Jewish by the way. She abandoned the moon god and followed Jesus whom she deems her saviour. Keep on going Robert and Pamela, protect that girl against the forces of evil, protect her against the land of Mordor, where the shadows lie.
"Rifqa's father makes a valid point about "how many muslim families would allow their daughter to be a cheerleader?""
That is a good point. However, recall the sad case of Amina and Sarah Said--the two sisters brutally murdered by their father. I've seen many photos of the Said sisters, and while they weren't cheerleaders (to my knowledge), they dressed like your average American teenagers--tight, short-sleeved Ts, jeans, makeup, etc. They were also very involved with activities at their public high school (co-ed, of course) and apparently had close male friends. Their father allowed all of these decidedly non-traditional (for a Muslim female) activities before finally snapping. And they hadn't even converted to a different faith--they had simply become "too Western" for him to tolerate any longer.
I might add that, personally, I had a student in one of my classes a couple of years ago (I am a college instructor) who, although a Muslim recently arrived here from Iran, seemed very moderate indeed. Unlike many Muslim women on our campus, she never wore a headscarf and in fact not only sported fashionable clothing and heavy makeup but had bleached blonde hair! Her husband, who had either grown up in the US or immigrated here at a young age, encouraged her to go to college here, improve her English...all very "moderate" and "modern," right?
Well, when I dared to ask a couple of politely worded questions about Islam--only after this student had, unsolicited, sent me various emails promoting her faith--her husband commenced sending me the most hateful, outrageous emails accusing me of things I had never done nor said, and also containing thinly veiled threats. All because I asked one or two questions about Islam in a civil manner and only in response to his wife's unsolicited proselytizing.
So, it does not in the least surprise me that a Muslim male would go mad if he believed his child's (or wife's) faith were in any danger whatsoever--regardless of how moderate or modern he might seem prior to losing control.
I think this is getting all too complicated.
Rifqa has said that her father threatened her life.
The only question is, is that plausible?
And the obvious answer is: yes.
Of everything discussed, no one has given any evidence of Rifqa being a liar. There is clear precedent in Islamic culture -- regardless of whether it's "correct" or not -- for killing for both honor and apostasy. And there is clear precedent of CAIR lying about Islam.
qed. Finito. Done. Emancipate the poor girl. Let her live her life.
Let's hear it from a muhammadan's mouth, shall we?
Facing Apostasy: The Role of Muslims
The greatest kind of danger that faces Muslims is that which threatens their moral aspect of existence, i.e., their belief. That is why apostasy from Islam is regarded as one of the most dangerous threats to the Muslim community. The ugliest intrigue the enemies of Islam have plotted against Islam has been to try to lure its followers away from it; they have even used force for this purpose. In this regard, Almighty Allah says, [And they will not cease from fighting against you till they have made you renegades from your religion, if they can.] (Al-Baqarah 2:217)
The duty of the Muslim community — in order to preserve its identity — is to combat apostasy in all its forms and wherefrom it comes, giving it no chance to pervade in the Muslim world.
That was what Abu Bakr and the Prophet's Companions (may Allah be pleased with them) did when they fought against the apostates who followed Musailemah the Liar, Sijah, and Al-Aswad Al-`Ansi, who falsely claimed to be Allah's prophets after the demise of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him). Those apostates had been about to nip the Islamic call in the bud.
It is extremely dangerous to see apostasy prevailing in the Muslim community without facing it. A contemporary scholar described the apostasy prevailing in this age saying, "What an apostasy; yet no Abu Bakr is there to (deal with) it."1
Muslims are to seriously resist individual apostasy before it seriously intensifies and develops into a collective one.
That is why the Muslim jurists are unanimous that apostates must be punished, yet they differ as to determining the kind of punishment to be inflicted upon them. The majority of them, including the four main schools of jurisprudence (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi`i, and Hanbali) as well as the other four schools of jurisprudence (the four Shiite schools of Az-Zaidiyyah, Al-Ithna-`ashriyyah, Al-Ja`fariyyah, and Az-Zaheriyyah) agree that apostates must be executed.
http://www.islamonline.net/English/contemporary/2006/04/article01c.shtml
maybe I missed something, but, why doesn't she file assault charges against her father for punching her in the face.
The State child protective services would have to take notice of such a legal filing and should delay any return of the child to the home until an investigation / trial has occurred.
Until some charges are actually filed there is no official legal notice of such assault to the State.
Aiken,
Rather than condemn, I applaud your stance. I will disagree with you, but then the hallmark of rational discourse is respect for one's opponent.
You may well be right. There may be a minimal risk. What is an acceptable level of risk? 5%? 2%? While the risk may be low, there are two considerations.
The first is that the impact is so great. You may hear "I would bet my life on this." That's exactly what's happening here. We are betting with Rifqa's life. She's 17, which in many countries is an acceptable age to leave one's parents. As it stands, she's less than 1 year away from being able to leave her parents anyway. By the time a proper investigation is complete, she may well be 18 anyway.
The second is that for us to consider that there is no potential of harm, Rifqa would have to be a bald faced liar. Quite the serious charge. I'm sure we would be less credulous of her stance if there had been no precedents.
kaffirchick and mikeymike,
I agree with and understand both of your posts. I guess what I'm saying is that my gut doesn't feel right about this particular "incident".
Something isn't right. Just a feeling, but I think I'm right.
Aiken, the danger of a Muslim apostate girl's life isn't worth a "gut feeling" on the other side of the scales. At least, not if one has plowed through the veritable mountain of horrific, ghoulish, grotesque shit documenting the fanaticism of Islam and of Musilms that is Jihad Watch archives -- which, incidentally, includes lots of information about seemingly moderate or harmless Muslims turning out to be fanatical enough (i.e., Muslim enough) to do, or to support, violence. And in this latter regard, kaffirchick's anecdote above is just one of thousands I've seen: we should take it as a baseline standard that Muslims lie and have fanatical predispositions underneath any surface that seems to us to be harmless. You know the phrase: erring on the side of caution.
When weighing any given problem emanating from the Muslim milieu, the time for casuism should be over. It's time for us to stand on general principles. Muslims do not deserve the favor of our carefully, casuistically weighing each case that their own culture keeps disturbing the world with. There is a time to take things case by case, and there is a time to lump things together; and the time for the latter should not be forestalled until after a few hundred thousand of us are mass-murdered in a WMD attack; while, in the meanwhile along the way, innumerable girls like Rifqa are murdered.
Hesperado,
Look! I'm not attempting to absolve anyone from anything, particularly from an islamic point of view.
I just find this case to be curious at the least and outrageous at the most.
I have a daughter older than Rifqa's age, thank God.
Did she ever do anything like this? No, thank God.
As a parent, I have to give Rifqa's father the benefit of the doubt, despite his islamic beliefs.
As a parent, I can certainly understand losing his daughter to what he believes to be certain culthood.
As a parent, I can certainly understand and vehemently reject any foreign (i.e. government or worse, religious) influence on my daughter's state of being.
I agree with the islamic bastard because I know what it takes to raise a child.
To be honest, I think Rifqa's parents and family life are similar to what we all have gone through.
Threats of death? Maybe, but whose father or mother for that matter hasn't implied or said such a thing?
From above...Threats of death? Maybe, but whose father or mother for that matter hasn't implied or said such a thing?
Were those people bound to act by submission to Allah?
Were they bound to act by Sharia or any kind of religious law?
Were they bound with Mahounds commandment to kill anyone who changes their religion?
Mahoundians are...if they are not bound in these ways, they are not Mahoundians...
Aiken & everyone else,
I read sometime in the past couple of weeks on Pamela's blog that Rifqa said she left the house in a neck to wrist to ankle covered track suit on cheerleading days and that her parents NEVER attended any school functions or after school activities. We also know that Rifqa's mom was rifling through her things to find her journal that said she was still a Christian. Since CAIR has taken it upon themselves to leak disinformation to the news media, here and in the Pakistani Times it is not too much of a stretch to imagine mom going through the rest of Rifqa's things and finding a picture or two that could be easily propped up for the cameras as it was here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6P9Fzw9arQ&feature=related
Oh, so convenient. That picture has CAIR's fingerprints all over it.
"Threats of death? Maybe, but whose father or mother for that matter hasn't implied or said such a thing?"
But we know Muslim fathers, mothers, brothers and uncles follow through on those threats at an alarming rate. And Rifqa is a sweet kid. She's not irrational, impolite, nasty or argumentative like juvenile delinquents, runaways or other problem children. Something doesn't add up here. And why give her diary to the Orlando Sentinel. What the heck was that about if her parents love her so much? My parents would never have considered in a million years giving my diary out for everyone to read. Tehy actually loved me.
Better to be safe than sorry on this one.
It appears I'm the islamic troll.
Thanks Y'all!
I wonder what happened to that article about the FBI veteran who prepared an admirably cogent case in defense of keeping Rifqa in Florida (I know that word "cogent" is tossed around a lot these days, but his argument indeed was cogent -- the cogent rhetorical equivalent of a knockout punch)?
Aiken,
"As a parent, I have to give Rifqa's father the benefit of the doubt, despite his islamic beliefs."
The Islamic beliefs should trump everything.
"As a parent, I can certainly understand losing his daughter to what he believes to be certain culthood."
Islam is the dangerous brainwashing cult in question here, and her parents are followers of it.
You're not a troll Aiken, you're just thinking. More information is needed though. Go back and read Pamela's blog back to July on Rifqa. There are subtle bits coming out everyday and when added together the evidence is damning.
Gotta go! Nighty night. : )
Yes, Kaffirchick, that is part and parcel of the Islamic-pathology. Most Muslims are paranoid. I'm pretty certain the paranoia stems from the threat of death or punishment. I am also sure that the devouts in the mosque keep pretty close tabs on their flocks and should they stray, ie display unusual behavior, like acting un-Islamic or dressing in western clothes, they report this to the higher authorities just as Europeans, even Jews reported their own Jewish neighbors to the Nazi gestapo. The Noor mosque noticed this behavior in Rifqa and reported this to the parents with a warning that "if the parents can't get the girl under control then they would have to deal with her their way".
It's like Mob behavior. If someone goes astray in the mob they send in the cleaners to warn the Don of that particular family branch. If that family can't stop the guys unruly behavior then the cleaners are sent back in to elimnate the problem and clean up the mess.
Muhammad was probably the originator of the worlds first organized crime family. He actually did a pretty good job of it seeeing as it has lasted 1400 years and has eliminated a lot of innocent human beings during its violent growth.
It was so nice and refreshing to watch a young Rifqa, happy as a lark. She was almost floating in mid-air with love and joy. I pray for that lovely little girl.
I feel for Miss Bary predicament, but I do not care for her personality one bit. She must drink jesus juice that is the only way to explain her nauseating happiness which is so annoying I could of sworn I saw her in that true-blood episode about The Fellowship Of The Sun. Acting the way she does I can see why noone takes her seriously. She scares me more than her family does, and coming from me an advocate of mr.spencers was a very hard things to admit. Jennifer Carol Wilbanks don't got shit on Rifqa Bary. This chick has brainwashed herself into thinking her family follows the quran to the tee. I am simplely not buying into this belief based on circumstantial evidence at best that her dad is anything like Chaudhry Rashid. SORRY!
Rifqa Bary, May 2009: "My parents are radical, radical Muslims"
If America, and most Westerners in general, weren't as ignorant of mahoundianism as they are, Ms. Bary could have said "My parents are practicing, practicing mahoundians", and it would have sufficed to convey that very same message.
Aiken Bryce
It is not my view that you are an “Islamic Troll”
But I do suspect that your “gut feeling” is more to do with distaste for Christians than with concerns as a parent. Your comment about “Christian Cults” is a bit telling. It is obvious listening to her she is not a victim of a cult. Islam aside, there are quite a few people who harbour a prejudice about Christians. Or indeed any religion at all. You have a right to feel that way of course but I think it may be clouding your judgement here.
Like I said, some people just don't like Christians. End of Story.
Especially spirited,happy Christians.
If it was just dead religious theology it probably wouldn't irk you so much.
People that don't drink the "Jesus Juice" don't get the overflowing joy, peace and love that is felt, especially with new Christians. It can be very intoxicating.
Rifqa is a new Christian liberated from a very oppressive and backward cult-Islam. For goodness sakes they believe in Torture in Grave! What a horrible thing to teach children. That and the fact that the only sure way to reach paradise is to kill a non-muslim for allah.
Now Rifqa knows that she has been saved through a "gift of grace" from GOD.
Aiken Bryce - part of our problem in the West is our inability to understand that people from other cultures ARE very different from us.
I recall an American soldier's account of his time in Iraq. He remarked on how a man's status in Iraq society was dependent on his ability to control the women in his household. This is not the norm in the West. Think of how Mohammed Bary's status in the radical mosque is affected by his daughter's behavior. Since she has become a Christian, his status has fallen exponentially. His only way to to restore his family honor is to kill her and take her out of the country and make her "disappear". He has little choice in the matter. On top of this, Islam commands that an apostate MUST die. I think Pam Gellar is correct, Rifqa is a high-value target for the jihad in America. If she can free herself from Islam's death grip, other "Westernized" young people will be encouraged to try as well.
It is not acceptable in our culture to kill our children. But in Islam, it is. If the child (and remember, in their culture, children remain your children forever) converts to another religion is mandatory for ANY muslim to kill them. But Rifqa's father can restore some of his standing in this community by killing Rifqa himself.
I hope this helps.
Aiken Bryce
You are not alone, I too have a gut feeling.
Something seems out of place about this whole affair
It seems Rifqa's parents have taken a legal and publicity strategy that involves some pretty serious personal attacks on their daughter. They use a legal motion in which they swear under oath that Rifqa is "incorrigible" and "delinquent," they have called her a liar, and furthermore they have turned over what they claim are Rifqa's private journal records to the anti-Rifqa newspaper known as The Orlando Sentinel. These actions are of the "burning bridges" type, probably permanently damaging to future prospects of a relationship with their daughter. (I believe that Rifqa should sue her parents and the Orlando Sentinel for releasing those journals). Moreover, they have taken these aggressive measures against Rifqa despite the Florida judge ordering them to mediate with their daughter.
It seems Rifqa was right, that her parents love Islam more than they love her. They are willing to sacrifice their relationship with their daughter in order to defend Islam's public image in the West (e.g., to the point where the father is literally claiming that there is no such thing as honor killings).
Clearly, CAIR is involved, and the Muslim community is in full publicity battle mode. They seem determined that, if they can't silence Rifqa, they will do everything to assassinate her character and try to ruin her future prospects.
They may realize that Rifqa has the potential to become a very effective proselytizer for Christianity and has the potential to draw lots of young Muslims away from Islam. This the Muslims cannot tolerate. Even if Rifqa loses some of her apparently youthful zeal for Christianity over the next decade, she has the potential to be another Wafa Sultan or Hirsi Ali, and of course the defenders of Islam's public image in the U.S. cannot stand this. This is bad publicity for Islam, and so we can expect more desperate measures from the Islam public relations folks.
The extent to which some Muslims will go to lie or mislead outsiders about Islam is, though no longer surprising to me, no less amazing. Take a look at this quote from the Saudi-based Arab News, regarding Rifqa's allegations:
“Her heinous allegations have tried to give Islam a bad name…”
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=4§ion=0&article=126370&d=13&m=9&y=2009
This Saudi-based publication has a distribution in "Bahrain, Europe, Kuwait, the Near East, North Africa, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and the United States" (according to Wikipedia). The penalty for apostasy is death in several of the Muslim countries mentioned, including of course, Saudi Arabia. What then could the writer mean by calling the allegations "heinous"?
It seems, rather, Rifqa's allegations are "heinous" because they present Islam in a bad light to the naive Westerners, and this damages Islamic da'wa efforts in the U.S. (Islamic legal notions of slander include not merely damaging falsehoods, but expands to include anything that could be upsetting or annoying to a Muslim). At no point does the writer claim Rifqa's allegations about the apostasy penalty are false.
"I feel for Miss Bary predicament, but I do not care for her personality one bit. She must drink jesus juice that is the only way to explain her nauseating happiness which is so annoying I could of sworn I saw her in that true-blood episode about The Fellowship Of The Sun. Acting the way she does I can see why noone takes her seriously. She scares me more than her family does, and coming from me an advocate of mr.spencers was a very hard things to admit. Jennifer Carol Wilbanks don't got shit on Rifqa Bary. This chick has brainwashed herself into thinking her family follows the quran to the tee. I am simplely not buying into this belief based on circumstantial evidence at best that her dad is anything like Chaudhry Rashid. SORRY!"
I'm sorry you feel this way. You seem to have a unrealistic/stereotypical view of Christians. Christians aren't "nauseatingly happy" though they are filled with joy because they believe they know the truth that they have a relationship with a God that loves them. Now you may not believe that, and that's fine, but I'd hope you would be willing to look at regions and beliefs based on what they actually believe and not stereotypical characters on the Simpsons (no offense meant to Simpsons by the way, it's a pretty funny show despite the stereotypes). I believe stereotypes is counter to the spirit of this site, investigation of the truth should rule.
As for the parents, I think there's enough evidence in their behavior to question whether the Barry parents are radicals, especially considering the risk if they are assumed to not be and it turns out to be wrong. There are plenty of Muslims who have seemed "moderate" and were not, as reported numerous times on this site, so I would hope you as a self-proclaimed "advocate of mr. spencers" would know this.
Rifqa Bary is not alone in the USofA. There has been an ongoing exodus of erstwhile Muslims into Christian churches for some time. It's one reason why "7 or 8 million Muslims" in the USA is probably a large overestimate. Judging from the name of one of the Christian pastors mentioned in the posts, he's probably another one.
It has crossed my mind that Ms. Bary might now be a member of a sect which, to my Calvinist mind, is perhaps "half-baked". But she has at least gotten something of the Bread of Life (aka "Jesus Juice"?--a term I found used by the fiery racist Revilo Oliver, BTW) from them. They may be tight and cloying, but I doubt that they will murder her if she moves on.
In fairness, not all Christian ex-Muslims in America live in fear of their families (indeed, some family members "follow" the first person called to Christ). But I have also read of a case in which ex-Muslim males--a father and a son in his late teens--went for a long time as secret believers unaware of each others' conversions. Hence, I can understand how a more vulnerable teenaged girl might feel. Perhaps Rifqa's family, seeing that they stand a good chance of permanently losing their daughter in every way, may be backing off the threats they uttered to her earlier (may it be so!) But the authorities do have to take into account what Islamic law says about apostasy.
1keevy, foolster4, and others:
A prejudice against Christians is the biggest danger Rifqa faces.
Today, I got a little peevish with some left-wing acquaintances and very facetiously said, "OK, I confess! I used to help Jerry Falwell procure liberated lesbians to be live-roasted for joint Thanksgiving dinners with the faculty of Qom, Iran! They met in a secret tunnel under the Atlantic!" My interlocutors had so little sense of proportion when it came to Evangelicals that they took it seriously--and these were ejjikated people!
Epistemology--Yep, you're right. We Christians freely admit that we read the Tenach, and generally know that M'shiach was openly quoting when he spoke of loving God and neighbor. The fact that Christianity has always retained the Tenach is one reason why Islamic (and Marxist and Positivist and Freudian) charges that the Scriptures have been tampered with holds little water with me. We may disagree whether M'shiach has come or not, but Shanah Tov!
"I feel for Miss Bary predicament, but I do not care for her personality one bit. She must drink jesus juice that is the only way to explain her nauseating happiness which is so annoying I could of sworn I saw her in that true-blood episode about The Fellowship Of The Sun. Acting the way she does I can see why noone takes her seriously. She scares me more than her family does"
Many years ago an aquaintance of mine told me that he found a group of Hare Krishnas at the airport particularly annoying. Trying to give him a flower etc.
He went on to say that he had the urge to kick them.
This told me more about him than it did about the Hare Krishnas. :)