UPDATE: It has just come to my attention that school officials say Heather Lawrence lied about this incident (thanks to Sanjay). The larger questions remain.
In "CAIR-ful Tampa" in Human Events today, I discuss an uncomfortable question a non-Muslim high school student asked her Muslim classmate and its unfortunate aftermath -- and ask an uncomfortable question of my own.
A Muslim girl sits for Pledge of Allegiance. A non-Muslim girl asks her why she doesn't act proud to be an American. Guess who got suspended.It happened last week in Spring Hill, Florida: Heather Lawrence, a 16-year-old girl who plans to join the U.S. Army, was suspended for five days for insulting her hijab-wearing, seated classmate who refused to stand for the Pledge. This angered Heather, she said, since "our flag represents everything that our country is....You know, I made a not-so-kind remark, and I do sincerely apologize for referring to the thing on her head because that had nothing to do with it. But I told her, 'Why don't she act like she's proud to be an American?'"
Good question. But apparently by asking it, Heather Lawrence has committed a violation of human rights.
The Southern California-based Bureau of Islamic and Arabic Education has accordingly devised an “Islamic Pledge of Allegiance.” Preceding the actual Pledge comes a pledge of “allegiance to ALLAH and His Prophet.”
Sickening.
Someone has composed a site with MUCH of Mr. Spencer's quotes and wisdom, designed to be easy to understand, maybe the Human Rights folks would wise up if they checked it out.
CrazyIslam.com
Salam,
I keep seeing this type of question and simply get frustrated.
Why can't you do do more for us, instead of putting up scenarios where we will be constantly victimised.
You KNOW that we can only pledge allegence to Alla SWT or at least allegence to a country which itself pledges allegence to Islam or mentions Alla SWT in the pledge, (even in a slight way will do).
All can be ironed out....is it really such a big deal for you to do this? Just imagine the favour that you can curry by simply doing some minor tweaks to your loyalty pledge.
Just imagine the cheap oil you can get by doing this (heck the British/Scots do this all the time).
Get it together USA...toffee nosed principles will not fill your hungry SUVs...cheap oil will.
The unarticulated issue is that the hijab is offensive to all infidels. It is insulting to all women and people who believe in democracy and freedom. We infidels have an inalienable right to demand the wearer take off an offensive symbol of repression of women and others. An infidel seeing a person wearing this should be allowed to be offended just like a Jew is offended by a Nazi symbol or an American black is offended by the confederate flag. We infidels need a new type of poetry to transcend our oppression:
Die infidel die!
Die infidel die!
Die infidel die!
and let the crusader take over!
Never forget the words in the May 4, 2006 Dhimmi Watch post by Trifkovic in his magnificent article "Jihad's Fellow-Travelers":
A foreigner who becomes naturalized has to declare, on oath, "that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."
For a Muslim to declare all of the above in good faith, and especially that he accepts the Constitution of the United States as the source of his highest loyalty, is an act of apostasy par excellence, punishable by death under the Islamic law.
Cesar says "For a Muslim accepting the Constitution of the United States is an act of apostasy par excellence."
Cesar...it is in it's current form but it doesn't have to be like this.
How about changing "I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction" to say
"I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction, or the direction of the imam chosen by the Islamic community to represent/liase with the US administration."
This implies that Islam has been considered and the Imam can consult back into his community where there are imperfections to the constitution (because it has been written by fallable humans).
This simple ammenment can solve so many problems.
By the way...has the constitution ever been CHANGED since it's inception.
I didn't write the above but, as I said, I was quoting Trifkovic. In a following sentence of "Jihad's Fellow-Travelers", Trifkovic wrote:
The sharia, to a Muslim, is not an addition to the "secular" legal code with which it coexists with "the Constitution and laws of the United States of America"; it is the only true code, the only basis of obligation. To be legitimate, all political power therefore must rest exclusively with those who enjoy Allah’s authority on the basis of his revealed will. America is illegitimate.
From Yom...You KNOW that we can only pledge allegence to Alla SWT or at least allegence to a country which itself pledges allegence to Islam or mentions Alla SWT in the pledge, (even in a slight way will do).
Yes indeed Yom...We do know that...That's why the Mahoundian girl could not stand up...If she did she would be committing an act of blasphemy...Her parents encouraging her to 'stand up' is bad advice Islam wise, unless the pledge is faked...A Mahoundian trying to serve two masters is indulging in shirk...There is only one master and that is Allah...This is why Mahoundians can never be committed to the country they live in unless it is an Islamic country...They can always be trusted to put the interests of Allah ahead of the interests of kufr...Even if they have to fake pledges to forward the cause(s) of Allah...
Yom - Well, if YOU know that you Muslims can't pledge allegiance to any country that does not itself pledge allegiance to Allah, why not make it simple on yourselves, and go live in those countries, instead of trying to make the US or any other country bend over backwards for you? That's a simple solution, isn't it?
Wolf, yes that is a solution and many people adopt that solution....but it is a simple solution and not for everyone.
Alla (via Gibreel) SWT showed a map of the flat earth to Muhammed SAW and said that every corner of his Dunia can be lived in by his slave worshippers. This means Alla SWT ordained that muslims are free to live in America...and who are the kufr to impede this with a few sentences put together (and even that in English) and then called the constitution.
Look here, many of us are there to stay for the long haul, you need to be fair to us...I have already suggested a simple change that would do the trick...I cannot see what the problem is.
Yommie - When in Rome, do as the Romans do.
Face it - "the KIngdom of Heaven will not be achieved until the very stones and trees cry out "Muslims! There is a Jew hiding behind me! Come and kill him!""
In order to avoid future unpleasantness, why not ban the hijab? Islam does not require Muslimahs to wear it, so why not leave this foolish fashion on the ash heap of history where it belongs?
Amazing how cock sure Principal Duvall is that "this girl" lied, yet who is a member of an organization that specifically advises members to lie to "kufr"?
When was the trial?
Why is this minor's name and photo printed in the media and thrown around by the school system?
Does Florida not have protection for minors? Or now, for people who will be hunted and harassed for being "uppity" toward Islamists?
How dare an "infidel" notice that Muslims dominate 3/4 of the bad news internationally.
How dare Islamic terrorism finally affects a child to the point of saying something resentful about it.
And how dare Floridian dhimmi school officials attack this girl.
"You KNOW that we can only pledge allegence(sic) to Alla SWT or at least allegence(sic) to a country which itself pledges allegence(sic) to Islam or mentions Alla SWT in the pledge, (even in a slight way will do)."
Posted by: Yom_al_Juma
Yom, the pledge already does this; it's to "...one nation, under God,...." Isn't "God" just the English translation of "Allah"?
"Alla (via Gibreel) SWT showed a map of the flat earth to Muhammed SAW and said that every corner of his Dunia can be lived in by his slave worshippers."
Posted by: Yom_al_Juma
The Earth is not flat, it is spherical, so the map shown to Mohammed was certainly not a map of this Earth. Mohammed was being shown a map of some other world. Thus Moslems are not entitled to live anywhere on this Earth.
"...I do sincerely apologize for referring to the thing on her head because that had nothing to do with it." -- Heather Lawrence
Why must everyone continue to be asymptotic? Of course her head-covering had everything to do with the whole incident. The Muslim girl's head-covering is one of the main visible symbols of the same Islam that motivated her to show disrespect to the pledge of allegiance.
Regarding the update and the questions of honesty and censure . . .
Springstead principal Susan Duval has a history of her own with plagerism resulting in suspension as well as censorship.
Administrative credibility appears to the issue.
WE CAN AND SHALL DO IT.
You're right on this. But when? And how? History teaches us that pent up political energy comes out sooner or later, even in a nation awash with lawyers.
*** 2:256 ***
I've tried to envision how it's gonna happen, but you're right it will happen, it must. Me, I'm into sidearms, light semiautomatics. Is that a sin to make that statement? It's legal, all my guns are lawful. But it's unacceptable to say things like that in the squalor of our crapulous public discourse, such as it is.
Whoda thunk we'd elect an Indonesion Moslem president only 7 yrs after 9/11. Who? And why?
Did she lie or did school officials just say she lied? With Ahmed Bedier involved I don't trust anyone.
"Yom al Juma" wrote:
Why can't you do do more for us, instead of putting up scenarios where we will be constantly victimised.
...................
This is the question every filthy kaffir should ask himself, every morning when he wakes up--"what more can I do for the people who want to subjugate or murder me?"
Really, its just inexplicable that infidels are not doing even more for "the best of peoples"--the Muslims.
Poor Yom al Juma is--clearly--completely flummoxed by this.
Ah Yom,
Too bad I won’t live to see the day when the oil runs out and islam’s last bargaining chip is spent. As that day approaches, and there are some who believe production has already peaked, and therefore the mad scramble is already on, the unbelievers will tolerate less and less of your bullshit and no longer be able to afford the intolerance your faith subscribes.
Kaffir Kanuck, you are so right. America still has all it's oil, not so for those M.E. pillars of scientific thought and artistic expression.
Hey Yom-seem, why don't you get off your ass like the rest of us and help yourself out? Even a middle aged furniture-shop-owning Muslima matron can do more for herself than spew onto deaf ears about "Whatta girl wants, whatta girl needs..." Sorry sweety, but nobody cares.
You misunderstand the rage that Americans can channel when they've been pushed too far. We defeated a country that had the best navy in the world at the time, just us little old Bible thumpin' gun lovers. But please, continue your whining. The dissatisfaction with Muslim non-victims will move high up on the list after patriotic Americans finish giving the current Resident what for regarding taxes, healthcare and forced socialism.
I think B. O. screwed the pooch just a LITTLE BIT EARLY. I think your wishful thinking is boring. Yawn.
Unfortunately, most people will simply believe the school. Very few people think that teachers and principals lie. But they do. At best they exaggerate, but sometimes they will out and out lie. I have been lied to, to my face, by more than one teacher and more than one principal.
By the time my kid was in 6th grade I learned that she had to be in the room, with me as I was told a situation, to be able to trust what they said. And no, I'm not one of these parents who think their kid can do no wrong. In every instance she was in the wrong and deserved what she got. But sometimes it was like pulling teeth to get the truth out of them. After I was lied to about situations I knew about first hand, I didn't trust a word they said.
Teachers do lie, but they are less likely to lie to the kids face. They having no problem lying about kids.
Yommy, you're giving the evidence that Islam is really hostile to science. The earth is flat, the theory of evolution is made by devils, any more of that crap? Somebody here said, "when in Rome, do as the Romans do", translates to if you go to the civilised world, behave like a civilised person, no more, no less. We don't give a f*****g s**t about Allah, your silly little moon god, pork on his head! Why should we respect crap like that? Stop whining overhere, go to your bloody mosque. We don't need you, but you obviously need Western dough. Your bloody oil is totally overpriced. Forget it!
You got that right, Jaynie. Hence the expression, "Get all the liars in one room." We tend to put teachers on a collective pedestal; they are not all deserving of it. Many are. Teachers, just like other professions, should be judged by their individual merits. But who these days thinks about the individual when we can address folks collectively?
We need to be fair to you? You are audacious (and hypocritical) for sure. What fairness have your co-religionists shown the Christians in Egypt, Sudan, Pakistan, and Iraq? What fairness was shown by your co-religionists to the officer workers in the World Trade Center? What fairness was shown by your co-religionists to the train commuters in London and Madrid? What fairness was shown by your co-religionists toward the Christian converts they executed in Somalia? What fairness was shown by your co-religionists toward the school children in Beslan, Russia?
It is not fairness you seek, but special treatment and eventual domination. You may be able to fool the assorted liberal do-gooders, but here we know the truth about Islam and are not deceived by your duplicitous calls for "fairness".
Both girls are useful idiots. The events should have begun as follows:
"A girl who believes in bullying, theocratic collectivism from Asia sat during the pledge of allegiance devoted to another girl's bullying, theocratic collectivism, mostly from Asia, as both girls learned during geography class just by looking at a map, although the latter's did take on slightly different form in N. America. The latter asked the former why she isn't proud to live in the latter's collective and added, 'our flag represents everything that our country is', namely, thirteen plundering, malcontented gangsters who broke away from a Christian crown and within just a few years were back to business as usual, collectivising new lands, most of which is represented in the blue field of the flag.
The first girl looked at the other in amazement. She simply could not comprehend what the big deal was given that her collectivism, too, has been known since its beginning as a tool of brigands and warmongers while simultaneously professing liberty, justice, etc.
'What difference does it make whether I chose your bullying collectivism or my own?', asked the girl who sat. 'They are basically the same, and that in spite of excited protests from theologians, their allied philosophers, and the cheerleaders. Both profess belief in gods for which their is neither evidence nor coherent arguement to entail belief. Both threaten punishment for the imaginary crime of trying to eliminate them. Both are preoccupied with the human body. Both have a bizarre doctrine of reincarnation from the grave in which the god plays the part of Dr. Frankenstein. Both are larded with socialism. However, an interesting difference is that your collective is dominated by people who make a god out of a Jew who wanted to be a king and, get this, solicited the homicide of those who reject him. This puts him in good company with the self-aggrandizing jerk that I revere. He was an Arab who claimed the title 'Praised'. Anyhow, both collectives are basically secular, their superstitions notwithstanding.'
'Oh, I almost forgot some things', added the one who reveres the Arab brigand. 'If your parents don't pay protection money to the collective, they can be imprisoned. We have this, too, in my collectivism, and we call it zakat, which the Islamic State is supposed to manage, but the worst punishments are for nonmembers who have to pay a tax, too. We call it jaziyah. Sometimes we tolerate such people indefinitely. It's like slavery, but it seems more benign than what your collective tried, but failed, to abolish completely, as any literate person can tell by reading the XIIIth amendment to your foundational law. Furthermore, my collectivism would never tolerate apostates within its own borders as does yours, even though it is the apostates' right and their duty to eliminate both evils.'
'Better still,' she continued, "our men call us females their fields, and they marry us while we're young. Your fields, tramps, really, are all over the Internet, presumably for watching by men who don't have enough fields of their own to plow, till, and irrigate, if you know what I mean. Of course, once our husbands have torn our hymens, we Muslimahs can have all the fun we like with kaffir boys who are plentiful in your big, kaffir cites. If neither hubby nor the religious authorities find out, everything's cool, although it's a little tricky nowadays given DNA testing of children. Also, the surgeons of your civilization's medical tradition have figured out how to repair hymens, so we Muslimahs can start playing farmer's field before marriage. Let me tell you, some kaffir boys really know how to farm. Even better, there's no Islamic state here yet, so I get the best of both types of collectivism. Your problem is that you are oblivious and stupid, as American kaffir girls usually are until about the age of 30 or 35 at which point they start to turn into nagging shrews yet without acquiring the full use of reason.'
'Anyhow, that's why I choose my collectivism, not yours', the brigandloving Muslimah concluded before returning to her fantasies about her wedding with which she'd been preoccupied during recitation of the pledge."
"...you need to be fair to us"
We don't need to do anything.
But it isn't it ironic, folks? Muslims threaten death, cajole, whine, murder people, file lawsuits, steal land and hurt their own family members, all to intimidate, and our leaders and media snobs don't say boo about it. On the other hand, Americans don't do any of that crap and we're the ones that are constantly blamed for it.
Maybe Yom-seem is onto something. Maybe we should give her something to worry about. ; )
LakeViewPaul
are you serious?
can you really, seriously see absolutely *no* difference between the United States (or any other free western nation) and, say, Islamic Iran, or Saudi Arabia, or Sudan or Pakistan, and between Christianity and Islam? *None* whatsoever?
I assume you have not read Mr Spencer's 'Religion of Peace: Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn't?' Or that if you have, you have dismissed Mr Spencer's discussions of Christianity, and of what distinguishes it from Islam, as nonsensical, baseless propaganda?
If you are serious when you, in a tone of 'a plague on both their houses' argue that Christianity is a malevolent 'collectivist' ideology indistinguishable in every respect from Islam, then all that proves is that you have no comprehension of Christian theology, and anthropology and psychology, AT ALL. And that you have swallowed, without question, all the 'let's hate the horrible Christians for destroying the Wonderful Life-Affirming Noble Pagan Greco-Roman World' myths and lies that have been peddled in the West since at least the time of Gibbon.
I advise you to read David Bentley Hart, 'Atheist Delusions: The Christian Revolution and Its Fashionable Enemies', the second part, entitled, 'Revolution: The Christian Invention of the Human' and allow yourself to wonder why an eastern orthodox theologian would call the tenth chapter, the first in that second part of his book, 'the great rebellion'. And you might also check out his collection of essays, 'In the Aftermath: Provocations and Laments' and read the one that he calls 'On the Trail of the Snark with Daniel Dennett'. Oh, and 'the anti-theology of the body' might be of interest, too;
Failing that, even Auerbach's 'Mimesis' might set you straight.
This is a mindset common among the "New Atheist" movement. For them, all religions are essentially equal in their evil, and hence their is little difference between Islamic supremacy and traditional Christianity. All you have to do is look to the likes of Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris. These men have no problem mentioning the truth about the relationship between Islamic doctrine and jihad terrorism, but in the end their main enemy is always Christianity. For the "New Atheism" Islam is put a useful tool in which to demonise all religion, and most especially Christianity.
Let's talk irony - My child is serving in the Middle East as a member of the US Military - recently, my child was ordered by the commander not to consume food or water in the presence of locals, in observance of Ramadan though the job my child performs is consistantly in the presence of locals, so during a 12 hour duty period, my child can not eat or drink and it is affecting my childs health in the form of dehydration - my child is not Muslim, yet required to abide by Sharia because of the mission placed by the USA and the nutless, ignorance of military and government leadership - this is the diminished metality of the people leading our government and military - I know - I've been a member of it for over 24 years and am so increasingly frustrated with the ignorance our so-called "battle strategist" have for our enemy! We are truly lost!
Let's talk irony - My child is serving in the Middle East as a member of the US Military - recently, my child was ordered by the commander not to consume food or water in the presence of locals, in observance of Ramadan though the job my child performs is consistantly in the presence of locals, so during a 12 hour duty period, my child can not eat or drink and it is affecting my childs health in the form of dehydration - my child is not Muslim, yet required to abide by Sharia because of the mission placed by the USA and the nutless, ignorance of military and government leadership - this is the diminished metality of the people leading our government and military - I know - I've been a member of it for over 24 years and am so increasingly frustrated with the ignorance our so-called "battle strategist" have for our enemy! We are truly lost!
Isn't strange that a Muslim student can wear
a hijab to this school but if a
Christian student wore a baseball cap with a
cross on it or the star of David they
would be told to take it off.
The story posted on Jihad-Watch on Aug 31 indicated that there were at least two different versions of what happened, one in which the Muslim girl was standing up, and one in which she wasn't standing up, for the Pledge of Allegiance. Obviously, Robert should not have leaned in favor of one side of the story before more facts were known about the incident.
Virgil,
You're flat wrong about Harris. Read his views before making such a sweeping conclusion. There was even a post on Dhimmi Watch about this, some time ago, where Harris rejects the equivalence arguments. In his 2004 book, he also argues strongly against the idea that all religions are equally bad. Get to know Harris' views before commenting on them. Dawkins, Hitchens, and others are also very critical of Islam.
As for "demonizing," I do believe that these atheists stop short of condemning those with whom they disagree to hell-fire, etc.
Sam Harris:
[excerpt 1]
"The second reason to be attentive to the differences among the world's religions is that these differences are actually a matter of life and death. There are very few of us who lie awake at night worrying about the Amish. This is not an accident. While I have no doubt that the Amish are mistreating their children, by not educating them adequately, they are not likely to hijack aircraft and fly them into buildings. But consider how we, as atheists, tend to talk about Islam. Christians often complain that atheists, and the secular world generally, balance every criticism of Muslim extremism with a mention of Christian extremism. The usual approach is to say that they have their jihadists, and we have people who kill abortion doctors. Our Christian neighbors, even the craziest of them, are right to be outraged by this pretense of even-handedness, because the truth is that Islam is quite a bit scarier and more culpable for needless human misery, than Christianity has been for a very, very long time. And the world must wake up to this fact. Muslims themselves must wake up to this fact. And they can."
[excerpt 2]
"To be even-handed when talking about the problem of Islam is to misconstrue the problem. The refrain, "all religions have their extremists," is bullshit—and it is putting the West to sleep. All religions don't have these extremists. Some religions have never had these extremists. And in the Muslim world, support for extremism is not extreme in the sense of being rare. A recent poll showed that about a third of young British Muslims want to live under sharia law and believe that apostates should be killed for leaving the faith. These are British Muslims. Sixty-eight percent of British Muslims feel that their neighbors who insult Islam should be arrested and prosecuted, and seventy-eight percent think that the Danish cartoonists should be brought to justice. These people don't have a clue about what constitutes a civil society. Reports of this kind coming out of the Muslim communities living in the West should worry us, before anything else about religion worries us."
http://richarddawkins.net/article,1702,The-Problem-with-Atheism,Sam-Harris
Hesp says:
"The Muslim girl's head-covering is one of the main visible symbols of the same Islam that motivated her to show disrespect to the pledge of allegiance."
You're assuming the Muslim girl disrespected the Pledge of Allegiance. That has not been established, and the Muslim girl and the teacher both say she did stand up for the Pledge.
If I remember right Quakers do not stand and say the pledge of allegiance either. I think the difference here is they just explain that it would violate their religion, Muslims for some reason don't like to explain themselves, and of course enjoy the so called victim hood Islam imposes upon them when they reside here in a free society.
The piss poor attitude is the problem here.
I believe Heather Lawrence's story.