"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." - Albert Einstein
Deadlines are a convenient, renewable resource in foreign policy. They give the appearance that action is being taken, and they buy time before having to do something more substantial. The problem is, they buy Iran time as well.
An update on this story. "West gives Iran three months to prove it does not want nuclear weapons," by Nick Meo and Richard Spencer for the Telegraph, September 30:
Thursday's meeting in Geneva between Iran's chief nuclear negotiator and western governments will be the last chance to come to a settlement over the programme, diplomats said yesterday. If not, western governments would seek tough new sanctions at the United Nations.
"The ball is in the Iranians' court," said one source. "What they do in Geneva will be a fundamental test for the Iranians."
The meeting is the first of its kind for more than a year and the first with Iran at which Washington will be a full partner for three decades. It follows last week's revelation that the Iranians were developing a secret uranium enrichment facility near the city of Qom.
That disclosure may have rattled the Iranian government, but its president was in bellicose mood yesterday in setting out his terms for the meeting.
He said it was the West, not Iran, which had the opportunity to show it had changed its attitudes.
"The leaders of these countries made a historic mistake with their comments about the new plant," he said. "The negotiators can definitely adopt any policy that they want, but we will not be harmed."
The West's negotiating team, led by the European Union's foreign policy representative Javier Solana, is hoping that the hardline bluster is preparing the way politically for a more conciliatory approach face-to-face.
They say do not know whether Iran wants to cut a deal or not.
"The key thing is, by the second half of the day, is there any sense of whether they are in a frame of mind where they want to engage?" the source said. "We are offering a process of co-operation with Iran - on economic issues, energy, even things like education."
Close attention will be paid to the reaction from Russia and China, which have the power to veto any proposed sanctions.
Russia reacted critically to the disclosure of Iran's latest secret programme, but China has shown no willingness to shift from its previous opposition to more sanctions.
The West's general stance received some backing from Mohammed ElBaradei, head of the International Atomic Energy Agency. The West claims that the secret construction of the new facility was in violation of Iran's commitments, but Tehran says it was not obliged to inform the IAEA until six months before it introduced nuclear material.
But Mr ElBaradei told a television interviewer: "They have been on the wrong side of the law in so far as informing the agency about the construction.
"Iran was supposed to inform us on the day it was decided to construct the facility. They have not done that."
More stern finger-wagging from the West.
"Iran was supposed to inform us on the day it was decided to construct the facility. They have not done that."
That's not what the compulsive liar Dave742 said, now was it?
.. and this time we weally weally mean it!
POTUS isn't going direct to Copenhagen where he's going to force.... er.... ask, yeah, that's it.... ASK The International Olympic Committee to grant The 2016 Summer Olympics to The SEIU and ACORN..... um...... I mean Chicago.
Our beloved Dictator-In-Training-Pants will first do a fly-over of Israel where he will assist his owners in the selection of preliminary targets.
Kenny Solomon
Expediter for The 72 Virgins Club Travel Agency.
"West gives Iran three months to prove it does not want nuclear weapons,"
How in the hell do you prove a negative?
"West gives Iran three months to prove it does not want nuclear weapons,"
How in the hell do you prove a negative?
"The ball is in the Iranians' court"...
The ball has always been in Iran's court...It's their game, they make up the rules...This will continue until someone takes the ball away from them...It won't be Rasool Obama, maybe Israel...
U.S.:(in a loud voice) THIS TIME WE REALLY MEAN IT!
Iran: (thinking in silence) Just like North Korea.
Why do I keep hearing Gadahfi saying, “You cross this line you DIE!” And then Reagan crossed it, and then, “OK, you cross THIS line, you die!” And then the US crossed it. And then, “OK, your CROSS this LINE, you DIE!” and then you know the rest…
Cue the “15-ton super bunker-buster bomb (GBU-57A/B) Massive Ordinance Penetrator” in the following article:
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/15217
Robert, in your new book, The Complete Infidel's Guide to the Koran, on page 41 you say:
As you go on to show on pp.41-42, though, in Islamic theology the angels are not higher than human beings. So, is the prostration of the angels perhaps Muhammad's way, not of raising man up to be an image of God (in Islam man is only a slave of God), but rather of lowering angels and spirits, so that Allah is shown, yet again, to have no partners? After all, if people believe that angels are lower than human beings, and are therefore certainly not gods, then who is there left to worship? Only Allah. Thus Muhammad cements his monopoly as the only one entitled to speak on behalf of the divine.
The CIC (Coerced-In-Chief) is simply playing out the part in the role he was meant to play, as premeditated by other far-left, anti-American sociopaths.
Jihadis are outed in NYC (uggh, again) and Obama, quietly, decides to release more detainees from Gitmo, because quite simply, he can't close the place down in the time frame he promised the far-left.
Obama has already failed on so many levels, but none is so overtly evident as is his "reaction" to Iran's "peaceful nuclear project". Instead of putting underlings to speak on behalf of the US, Obama has superseded his own Secretary of State, and essentially everyone in his own administration, with his own personal ultimatums, only to be immediately transgressed by Iran as with the launching of more rockets in a display of Islamic power.
Obama's plan here is simple. Draw a line in the sand with Iran, watch them cross it immediately, and then redraw a new line to try to save face.
He, Obama, is the ultimate traitor to the West, and especially the US. Naivete is a convenient, but not substantiated excuse at this point in my estimation.
Long may he reign, at least until election day in 2012. I just hope the now recognizable world can endure the duration of his first and only term.
Questioneverything:
Baradei is a liar. What do you expect from someone who illegally referred Iran to the SC?
The GBU-57A/B will reach operational status in June 2012.
The GPS-guided GBU-57A/B has a 2.7 metric ton high explosive warhead, and can penetrate 200 feet (60 meters) of 5,000 psi reinforced concrete, 26 feet (8 meters) of 10,000 psis reinforced concrete, or 130 feet (40 meters) of moderately hard rock.
It's 25,000 pounds heavier than any previous available buster. This baby is definitely equipped to do some real freaking damage.
But before that Obama will cut funding to the project.
Just watch!
We must bury them, in graves shallow or deep.
I have a broom. Sign me up.
Come December the Iranians will proclaim "we have a nucler weapon"......now what?
"We are offering a process of co-operation with Iran - on economic issues, energy, even things like education."
What part of Europe or the Middle East does Iran 'vaporize' before they are taken seriously? Or will it be Qom vaporized? Do Iran's mullahs really cared about 'kuffr' education? This is really getting interesting. Where are the FDRs and Churchills in this next war? Get the popcorn ready, we're going to a shoot out. My guess is by December.
He said it was the West, not Iran, which had the opportunity to show it had changed its attitudes.
of course it must be the west that must change its attitudes
after all we cant have infidels dictating to the best of peaples (or so there told on the quran by allha ) what they can and cant do .can we?? (sarc off)
"The leaders of these countries made a historic mistake with their comments about the new plant," he said. "The negotiators can definitely adopt any policy that they want, but we will not be harmed.
funny didn't Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja,a visiting ambassador from Tripoli
say something simmaler in 1814 The Americans asked Adja why his government was hostile to American ships, even though there had been no provocation. They reported to the Continental Congress that the ambassador had told them “it was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave,” but he also told them that for what they considered outrageous sums of money they could make peace.
imo imanutjob is trying to pull the same thing the barbary pirates tried to pull thinking that they were the top dogs in 1814 but if you recall Congress created the United States Navy was born in March 1794. Six frigates were authorized, and so began the construction of the United States, the Constellation, the Constitution and three other frigates.and after 2 wars the barbary pirates were in the dustbin of history !! if if imanutjob was to read what happened to the barbary pirates when they tangled with the usa could that finaly make him and the mullas crawll
buck under their rocks ??
All this negotiating and giving Iran sanctions has done is give them more time to build their nuclear arsenal. It's time America grows up, faces it's obligations, gets in touch with reality, and takes the next logical and only reasonable step; not more negotiations and sanctions but military action.
All this negotiating and giving Iran sanctions has done is give them more time to build their nuclear arsenal. It's time America grows up, faces it's obligations, gets in touch with reality, and takes the next logical and only reasonable step; not more negotiations and sanctions but military action.
"deadlines"
On the other hand, Zbigniew Brzezinski, who was National Security Adviser when the Shah was abandoned by the Americans, though Reza Pehlevi might, had he received one-thousandth of the military support given to shore up the Iraqis, managed to crush Khomeini's minions, thinks that a "deadline" not be given, and that the "alarmists" (Zbigniew Brzezsinski says these "alarmists" about Iran have been at it for 15 years -- which is complette nonsense) should be ignored, and that if the country he obviously thinks is the chief "alarmist" -- Israel (and why shouldn't it be? It would be crazy not to be) -- sends planes Iran-wards, then the Americans should seriously think of shooting down those planes. Like Carter, who pulled his own mask fully down just in the last few years, Zbigniew Brezinski in his dotage -- why was he even consulted by NPR? Who cares what Brzezinski, with his record of colossal strategic error and failure about Iran (and not only Iran) has to say about anything? -- has pulled off his own mask, and the pathological mental condition that was always suspected, turns out to be present after all.
America is in touch with reality, not like some people here.
Iran having nuclear sounds really terrible, but in reality it give us great leverage in many countries now, you see if Iran can drop the bomb on a lot of its neighbors don't you think those same Muslim will not be licking our boots to do something about it.
They may even start licking the boots of Israel. Muslim talk the talk but not the walk, I have a feeling that places like Saudi will be more willing to shut up and give green light to anything we want.
Haha, fear of their own can be a great opening for us.
The West's negotiating team, led by the European Union's foreign policy representative Javier Solana, is hoping that the hardline bluster is preparing the way politically for a more conciliatory approach face-to-face.
...................
'We are hoping that Herr Hitler's hardline bluster is preparing the way politically for a more conciliatory approach when he meets with Prime Minister Chamberlain face-to-face.'
Isn't it apparent how absurd this is?
Location: White House Press room
In walks da One. Strutting like John Travolta from "Saturday Night Fever". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7dRbVZV6FI&feature=related
Slides on up to the podium, checks to make sure his puppet master....er teleprompter is on and states the following..
"Yup. They are sure gonna listen to us this time." As he hikes up his pants, twisting his belt back and forth on his hips like Barney Fife.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de_P2aUZJyA
traeh, the only problem with your theory is that there are verses in the Koran, and the 5 daily prayers, where Allah prays "on" (or "to"?) Mohammed.
cf. this discussion
http://formermuslims.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3209
"The ball is in the Iranians' court"
Great, so they can keep screwing with us. How many balls is that now?
Some cut and paste
First an Iranian dissident group disclosed there was an underground nuclear plant. Then two years ago Iranian computer networks were infiltrated by American intelligence agencies, proving they were seeking to design a nuclear warhead. And now another secret facility, that spy agencies say was gained from “multiple independent sources”, suggesting human spies had penetrated it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/26/world/middleeast/26nuke.html?pagewanted=1
Diplomacy has so far produced a Nobel Peace Prize for Mohamed ElBaradei but not much else. I hope Obama's 'engagement' plan isn't at the expense of what was actually working.
Hi, Smithers! ...hey, I caught your message on that other thread. Thank you :)
I agree, Awake! ...2012 can't come soon enough for me.
The ghost of Neville Chamberlain has taken physical form again as these so called Western leaders who try to persuade the force of demonic purpose to do the right thing.
The demons will pretend to satisfy their naive yearnings while they continue in their diabolical plot to destroy them. Have any of these idiots ever read the history books or have the history books been so mutilated that they fail to see that they are repeating terrible steps filled with delusion and loaded with terror for the people they serve?
When Usrael bombed Osirak, Iraq's response was to do nothing but complain about it. Usrael will eventually bomb Iran and you will all get your wish. What do you think will happen afterwards in this case?
What do you think will happen afterwards in this case?
Rasool Obama will appear on television and make another pitch for health care, then he and Michelle will go on vacation in Venezuela...The Arab/Mahoundian world will act pzzed off but actually they would be relieved...There will be feeble counter attacks against Israel, but mostly Mahoundians will fight among themselves...The US and Iran are talking nukes as I write, out come unknown, but it's probably another dead line...
The mainstream media has its hacks out on this Iran story. MSNBC trotted out Jim Walsh of MIT again. He speaks with robust authority and says the dumbest things. He's suggesting that nobody should get worked up. The Iranians could decide to forget about nuclear weapons, and anyway, we "contained" the Soviet Union. On CNN we heard from Jimmy Carter, always on the wrong side of every issue, just plain evil or dumb as dirt, take your pick. The world according to Jimmy? Iran hasn't decided yet WHETHER TO PURSUE NUCLEAR WEAPONS! And guess what, our tough approach is FORCING them to make a Bomb. We should just lay off and "engage". Then CNN brought out some other no-nothing who played the same line. It looks like we are going to be going down the same road as was evident in our handling of the rise of Mr. Hitler. The expedient approach lives on, with vain hopes that the status quo will continue, while the tectonic plates shift dangerously under the world's collective feet.
" What do you think will happen afterwards in this case?"
A lot of Muslims will run around wanting to become martyrs killing as many people as they can in anyway they can..including the release of chemical, biological and maybe even nuclear weapons...there will be the usual Muslim riots, burning cars , looting stores, smashing windows, attacking anyone found moving about,...things Muslims would be doing sooner or later anyway...The Muslims, after a bit of temper tantrums, will re-group and start all over to come up with another plan to destroy the world...
After all, they have the Qur'an, and it tells them they are destined to dominate...and it is their responsibility to make it happen....
pulsar:
Wow. Seems like we're doomed whether we bomb them or not.
from 12/28/2005
"Indeed, the mainstream media has made much of potential Constitutional issues, trumpeting the fact that the radiation monitoring has been done without search warrants -- even though no actual searches have been carried out. Also, Justice Department spokesman Brian Roehrkasse maintained that “FBI agents do not intrude across any constitutionally protected areas without the proper legal authority,” and that it does not monitor groups in general but only acts on specific information. Is there any such information in this case? Roehrkasse spoke of official concern with “a growing body of sensitive reporting that continues to show al-Qaida has a clear intention to obtain and ultimately use chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear” weapons.
This has been public knowledge for years. Not long after 9/11, Americans discovered plans for constructing nuclear weapons in a former Al-Qaeda safe house in Kabul. A 2003 CIA report stated that jihad terrorists “have a wide variety of potential agents and delivery means to choose from for chemical, biological and radiological or nuclear (CBRN) attacks.” Other reports have claimed that Osama bin Laden himself met with Pakistani nuclear scientists; that Al-Qaeda has already obtained nuclear material on the Russian black market, and that jihadists already having brought those nukes into the United States. Others asserted that Al-Qaeda was planning to smuggle nuclear material into the U.S. from Mexico. But even if none of that is true, there is no doubt that jihadists are working in that direction. Ramzi bin al-Shibh, one of the masterminds of 9/11, has declared that “in killing Americans…Muslims should not exceed four million non-combatants, or render more than ten million of them homeless.”
from 08/20/2006
"Sheikh Abdullah el-Faisal encouraged Muslims to attend training camps so they could wage jihad on the West. He was jailed in February 2003 for nine years, reduced to seven on appeal, after being convicted of soliciting murder and inciting racial hatred. Hundreds of Muslims attended his lectures in mosques across Britain, including Birmingham, London and Dewsbury in West Yorkshire.
His trial heard recordings of el-Faisal, Jamaican by birth but living in Stratford, east London, praising Osama bin Laden. 'You have to learn how to shoot and fly planes and drive tanks,' el-Faisal told those who attended his lectures. 'Jews,' el-Faisal said, 'should be killed... as by Hitler.'
He encouraged the use of chemical weapons to 'exterminate non-believers', and exhorted Muslim women to buy toy guns for their children to train them for jihad. He also suggested that nuclear power stations could be fuelled with bodies of Hindus, slaughtered for their 'oppression' of Muslims in Kashmir."
from 05/15/2006
"Ayatollah Ahmad Husseini Al-Baghdadi: Jihad in Islam, from the perspective of Islamic jurisprudence, is of two types: Jihad initiated by the Muslims, which means raiding the world in order to spread the word that "there is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah" throughout the world. But this raid will not materialize in our era - the era of barbaric American capitalistic globalism -unless the Infallible, peace be upon him, is present.
But there are jurisprudents, both Sunnis and Twelver Shiites, who said the presence of the Infallible is not a prerequisite. If the objective and subjective circumstances materialize, and there are soldiers, weapons, and money - even if this means using biological, chemical, and bacterial weapons - we will conquer the world, so that "There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is the Prophet of Allah" will be triumphant over the domes of Moscow, Washington, and Paris."
dave742 asked:
"When Usrael bombed Osirak, Iraq's response was to do nothing but complain about it. Usrael will eventually bomb Iran and you will all get your wish. What do you think will happen afterwards in this case?"
The big, tough Iranian muhammadans will cry and whine and cry some more.
WAAAAAAA! Those evil jooooooooos! They want to defend themselves!!!!
--
by the way, ass clown, Iraq's response was not "to do nothing." There wasn't jack-squat they could do.
pulsar:
I your quotes are directed at me, you didn't have to go through the trouble. I am not questioning you answer, just want to find out what the answers are. If you think they are doing to use WMD on us, that's fine. I just wanted to gather some predictions before the bombing, and see how they match up to reality once it happens. I'm not looking for an argument.
You are so right!
Hesperado, I'm not sure I get what you are saying. You point to some indication that in some verse Allah prays for or on or to Muhammad. I don't see how that is incompatible with my theory.
My theory, or rather my idea, was that perhaps Muhammad had a certain purpose in mind when he created another Islamic verse or tale, one where the angels supposedly prostrate themselves before Adam: Muhammad was trying to remove the temptation to think of spirits (such as angels) as gods who could compete with Allah for the worship of human beings. If spirits, on the contrary, fall on their faces and prostrate themselves below human beings, then there would presumably be no temptation to worship spirits, since in the story they are below us. Only Allah would be worthy of worship. If there are spirits above man, not prostrated before him, that introduces an element of pluralism into man's devotional feelings and worship, and could open the way for a multitude of specialist human intercessors -- specialized priests, who would speak with a spiritual authority alternative to that of Muhammad, undermining the absoluteness of his interpretations.
How is any of that theory undermined by the existence of a verse of uncertain meaning in which Allah prays for or to or on Muhammad? Such a verse, where Allah prays to Muhammad, suggests that the whole religion is really about the worship of Muhammad, perhaps. But that does not seem to contradict my theory.
traeh, you're right, the Mohammed-worship angle is not really relevant. Your theory would certainly make sense in terms of the Islamic obsession to root out and eradicate polytheism. The same concern was in early Christianity, though not as obsessional it seems. As I recall, there is an idea in the Christian mythologoumena about the angels being lower than Adam -- this being, I believe, one of the reasons why Lucifer rebelled. Perhaps Mohammed stole this idea like he stole so many others.