UK: Christian couple charged with criminal offense after offending Muslims during discussion of religion

I am offended by the koran calling me names, saying that I should be killed, or subjugated because I don't want their junk religion.

I am offended they wear tents and scarves as a symbol of their women being 2nd class citizens and their men not being able to control themselves (well, that is one of their excuses since their women get raped too).

I am offended that they lie to me about islam.

I am offended that they want us to cater to islam while they do nothing in return except demand more and more.

I am offended that their religion is ok with pediphilia, polygamy, and beating of women and children.

I am offended that their religion is ok with slavery and still practiced in islam.

I am offended that they kill in the name of a god.

I am offended that they threaten people if one says anything about islam they don't like - even quoting their own texts back at them.

islam offends me.

I maybe wrong on this, but I think the UK is going to go down the tubes in the near future if this type of problems continues, time to change the government or the laws but they better do something.

I love how we don't give a hoot here in the states don't like what I am saying kiss my *.

Perhaps it's time for the Church of England to change its name.

I'm sure many British Muslims are laughing their heads off at this harassment of sucker British infidels. No doubt the liberal British think their bigheartedness and welcoming tolerance of Muslim immigrants garners respect and appreciation from them but I think they are just regarded as wimpy losers: Muslims respect Brits all the less for their suckerheartedness though they may pretend otherwise. No one respects weakness. The Liverpool police are a disgrace.

"In July they were arrested and charged under Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 and Section 31 (1) (c) and (5) of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998...

Neil Addison, a prominent criminal barrister and expert in religious law, said: ‘The purpose of the Public Order Act is to prevent disorder, but I’m very concerned that the police are using it merely because someone is offended.

‘It should be used where there is violence, yobbish behaviour or gratuitous personal abuse. It should never be used where there has been a personal conversation or debate with views firmly expressed.

He added that the police had a legal duty under the Human Rights Act to defend free speech ‘and I think they are forgetting that’.

Just so.

Hi all,

I’ve pitched my tent in Delaware for the next 60 days and I’ve got access to highspeed. Who-hoo!

I got an e-mail about this from the EDL, stating very matter of factly, “and they seriously wonder why the EDL was formed?”

This is absolutely ridiculous. And the leftist politicos and their strong armed wing nut constabulary wonder why the EDL has had to come into existence. Arresting peaceful taxpaying business owners while riotous public disorderly Muslims are allowed to shout hate at public servants and returning military personnel without reproof boggles the mind.

Maybe this will once and for all bring the ridiculous law enshrining the “right not to be offended” to the death it deserves. This is definitely a battle free speech cannot loose. If this couple are found guilty, there will be some pretty pissed off Englishmen.

Slightly OT. A friend of mine in country Victoria, Australia inadvertently bumped a lady in the supermarket. My friend said she was sorry and the lady turned and said to her "Not as sorry as you will be when we take over!"

My response would have been "I've read the back of the book, lady"

Porky Pig

Slightly OT. A friend of mine in country Victoria, Australia inadvertently bumped a lady in the supermarket. My friend said she was sorry and the lady turned and said to her "Not as sorry as you will be when we take over!"

My response would have been "I've read the back of the book, lady"

Porky Pig

Slightly OT. A friend of mine in country Victoria, Australia inadvertently bumped a lady in the supermarket. My friend said she was sorry and the lady turned and said to her "Not as sorry as you will be when we take over!"

My response would have been "I've read the back of the book, lady"

Porky Pig

Is there any organization that we can send contributions to for their legal defense?

The thing is, I don't blame this Muslim woman for this incident. She is only taking advantage of a stupid system that the British themselves set up. It was the liberal British government that set up these kangaroo tribunals to try anyone who violated the sacred doctrine of political correctness. The Muslims merely saw how the militant homosexual lobby and racial racketeers used the system to their own advantage and are now following suit. If the British people want to stop the eventual Islamisation of their country they need to start by running out the collection of socialists, cultural Marxists, multiculturalists, and corrupt Labour party thugs that have opened the door to the stealth jihad.

MAN WE LOVE TO HATE OPENS PIE HOLE AGAIN

FROM THE MAN BITES DOG FILES.

Jimmy Carter says that US participated in Venezuelan attempted coupe to displace Hugo Chavez.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.286487d63eceeb395540de83c2fe94f2.8d1&show_article=1

Carter should be run out of town on a rail. See 3:00 in clip from Oh Brother Where Art Thou. Too bad we do not have the balls of our forefathers to deal with this miscreant when he opens his mouth and asks, "Is you, or is you ain't my constituents?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc_XuE0_J04

The United States knew about an abortive coup against Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez in 2002, and may even have taken part, former US president Jimmy Carter has told a Colombian newspaper.

"I think there is no doubt that in 2002, the United States had at the very least full knowledge about the coup, and could even have been directly involved," Carter said in an interview with El Tiempo published Sunday.

Carter told El Tiempo that he believed Chavez was elected in a "fair" vote in 1999, had carried out necessary reforms for Venezuela and ensured that "those who are traditionally excluded are able to get a larger share of the national wealth."

I'm speechless. And that doesn't happen very often.

"Maybe this will once and for all bring the ridiculous law enshrining the “right not to be offended” to the death it deserves."

Intelligent defenders of freedom may hope so, Kaffir_Kanuck, but I don't think things work that way in England. Even if the persecuted Christian couple is acquited in court, they will still be out their time, emotional distress, and various legal costs. If they are found guilty, they will be fined heavily, and I do not think Britain has any significant appeals process to provide possible relief, nor, I think, can a British court overturn a law on "constitutional" grounds.

In short, they're screwed, which I suppose was the intention of the legislation in the first place.

if muslims can sue for being offended, then we can sue for being offended by the sights of burqas,headscarves, etc. l am offended by the koran, so lets put the koran on trial!

So much for that right of free speech.

It is a crime that they have to defend themselves because some wrapped up mummy got her feelings hurt.I hope they sue for damages and court costs.

I would like an update on this story.

This is the very censorship of Change. Where's Obama now?

How does one accomplish anything in such a climate?

Alfred Whitehead, philosopher, said a confronting a contradiction is the first step toward real knowledge.

Apparently there will be no real knowledge in Britain tonight.

How very, very sad for Britain that such an outrageous law suit is even allowed to proceed.

And yes, Dhimmi Carter is still the same embarrassing fool he was as president. That he still gets headlines today, after being out of office for nearly 30 years, is only because he remains such a useful mouthpiece for antisemitic Leftists.

Here are my thoughts on the matter.

First - isn't it interesting how it very often seems to be Muslimahs in these 'lawfare' / Stealth Jihad/ 'I'm offended! I've been bullied/ discriminated against!' cases? Muslimah sues hairdresser; Muslimah sues A & F; Muslimah sues Christian couple for 'offending' her by speaking plainly about Mohammed and saying exactly the same thing about Muslim female cover-up, as Nicolas Sarkozy recently said in the French centre of government; Muslimah schoolgirl complains about non-Muslim schoolgirl; there was that other Muslimah schoolgirl soaking a NY school for an alleged Islamophobic attack, and waltzing off with a very fat settlement aka swag of loot; and there was that other Muslimah who faked a hate crime on a US campus. I think the Muslims at present are hiding behind their women; pushing their women to the fore to spearhead the stealth jihad.

Second: I hope the lawyer, Mr Whiting (and it's good to know he's successfully defended someone else, in the past) has thought to ask the Vogelenzangs whether anyone, anytime in the past ten years even, has tried to buy their hotel. And if so, to investigate whether that someone might reasonably be supposed to be a Muslim ...or representing a Muslim or Muslim entity. Serious gumshoe-style digging needs to be entered into. Also, it might to interesting to find out whether there is a Muslim-owned hotel or hostel anywhere in the vicinity, that might view the Vogelenzang's establishment as competition, and profit by their being 'taken down'. Muslims in Pakistan are wont to use the 'blasphemy' laws to 'take down' people (whether Muslim or non-Muslim) they want to destroy.

It would be very, very interesting to find out who *initiated* the discussion of religion and the comparisons of Christianity with Islam.

Final thought: since I mentioned Nikolas Sarkozy above, in connection with Muslim female dress, let's hear his actual words as reported here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/5616629/Muslim-leaders-condemn-Sarkozy-over-burqa-ban.html

'In a move which threatens to reignite the debate over religious clothing in the country [France], Mr Sarkozy said:
"*The burqa is not a sign of religion, it is a sign of subservience* {my emphasis added - dda}.
"We cannot accept to have in our country women who are prisoners behind netting, cut off from all social life, deprived of identity."

(or, as reported here:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/06/23/2605453.htm

- "The burqa is not a sign of religion. *It is a sign of enslavement* {my emphasis - dda}. It is a sign of subservience"

Will the Liverpool police arrest Mr Sarkozy, if some Muslimah in France or in the UK whines that she is 'offended' by what the President of France said at Versailles in June? Will the UK demand that Mr Sarkozy be extradited to the UK to face charges of insulting Islam?

So why should Mrs Vogelenzang who, in the dining room of her own hotel, in what I assume was a normal conversation (not a shouted exchange in the street outside a pub, nor a tirade from a soapbox on Hyde Park corner), said NOTHING different from what Mr Sarkozy said to both houses of the French Parliament in the Palace of Versailles [surely a more blazingly public arena, than the dining room of a little English hotel)?

M. Sarkozy, President of France, in Versailles, said "The burqa is not a sign of religion. It is a sign of enslavement. It is a sign of subservience"

Mrs Vogelenzanger, in the dining room of her *own* hotel, in private conversation - and (said) 'that traditional Muslim dress for women was a form of bondage.'

And to cap things off, here is an article, courtesy of MEMRI, by an Iranian-French woman making at great length and with factual examples and analysis, exactly the same point as was made by Mrs Vogelenzanger, and going on to plead that "The Hijab, a Political Weapon and Form of Sexual Abuse, Should Be Outlawed".

http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=IA53309

Will the Liverpool police send a posse to arrest Mlle Djavann, too, if some Muslimah in the UK were to squeal about being 'offended' by the lady's ruthless plain speaking? (The article is far, far more scathing than anything Mrs Vogelenzanger can be supposed to have said).

Post scriptum to my posting above: perhaps UK jihadwatchers might like to obtain, and bring to the attention of the Bootle Christian Fellowship, and of Mr David Whiting, and of the local papers, and of the local MP (and whoever in Opposition is after his seat), the full text - as given in Versailles in June - of M le President's speech denouncing the Islamic veil, with the passage I cited above suitably highlighted; and also, a copy of Chahdorrt Djavann's article calling for the outlawing of hijab on the grounds that it is both a political weapon and a form of sexual abuse.

Indeed, maybe Mr David Whiting, solicitor for the Vogelenzangers, might calling in Mlle Djavann as an expert witness. *That* might set the cat among the pigeons. (A good test of Mlle Djavann's ultimate loyalties and sincerity, too - would she consent to publicly speak on behalf of a pair of non-Muslims whom a Muslim has accused of having insulted or threatend that Muslim, by criticising Mohammed and the veil?).

I feel sorry for the cops who had to bust them. I will have questions about the magistrates whi pursue this.

"I maybe wrong on this, but I think the UK is going to go down the tubes..."

The entire West is already down the tubes -- some areas somewhat further in the plumbing than others, perhaps, but none clear enough of the PC sewage to point fingers.

I'm curious whether any Christians in the UK have brought such complaints to the authorities in regard to offensive comments made by Muslims against Christian beliefs. Maybe they ought to do so. Britain needs a new government and new laws.

I e-mailed the relevant police station and told them what I thought about their arrest of the Vogelenzangs.

Next, I've e-mailed this "David Whiting" their Solicitor to inquire whether he is the David Whiting defending them. If he is, I will be contributing to their defense. I was thinking about 50 bucks. It's not a lot, but it's something.

I am a Twin Cities resident who attended the protests outside the X-Cel Center during the RNC Convention in September 2008. I and my companions were sort of self-styled protesters of the protesters. It was a very large crowd and we were situated behind the MSNBC standing watching Chris Matthews live. There several hundred people there (i.e. more watching live than on TV). At one point, someone blurted out in that 9/11 was an inside job. Outraged, I began to scream the following, over and over again: "Islam is responsible for 9/11, not the United States!" I then yelled: "Islam sucks! Islam sucks! Muhammad was a pedophile! Muhammad was a pedophile!" I finished it off with a "Thank God for free speech!" It was exhilarating, if not reserved. After reading numerous books, symposiums, interviews, and articles By Robert Spencer, Hugh Fitzgerald, Andrew Bostom, Bat Ye'Or, etc, I consider myself qualified enough to successfully engage a Muslim or Dhimmi in a debate. However, the setting then was not appropriate for a debate; nor would a debate have been as satisfying as screaming what I screamed. After reading this article, I am thankful that I was in the USA and not the UK, because were I in the UK, I would be in prison right now.

Freedom no longer exists in the UK; it has been slowly and finally surrendered to Islam...

"At one point, someone blurted out in that 9/11 was an inside job. Outraged, I began to scream the following, over and over again: "Islam is responsible for 9/11, not the United States!" I then yelled: "Islam sucks! Islam sucks! Muhammad was a pedophile! Muhammad was a pedophile!" I finished it off with a "Thank God for free speech!" -- senatortombstone

Bravo, Senator. Well Done.

I can't figure out what's wrong with "Truthers." Are they genetic Throwbacks, or what?

Truthers are unremarkable Americans. Nothing strange about them. "...according to a 2003 ABC poll, "seven in 10 Americans think the assassination of John F. Kennedy was the result of a plot..."

Americans have been brought up on a steady diet in TV shows and movies of thinking that evil white silver-haired anglo-saxon businessmen and politicians are part of a cabal really pulling the strings out of greed and/or evil. So their assumption that 9/11 is a conspiracy similar to the JFK assassination is not a stretch. Most Americans, Left and Right (for different reasons but coming to a similar conclusion), are pathologically alienated from their elites. Throw in that Muslims are a privileged "ethnic minority" coupled with the PC MC dogma that ethnic minorities are invariably victims and never perpetrators, and the result will be unsurprising.

Unless there were witnesses to this conversation, it will be the muslim witch's word against the hotel owners. Furthermore, how on earth could any honorable solicitor or district attorney (I don't know what they call the representative of the state in the U.K.) put people on trial for an alleged "hurt feelings/offended" charge?! This is utterly insane. Don't they have serious crime to deal with in British courts? The hotel owners could just as easily filed charges against their guest because her beliefs are blasphemous and antithetical to their own. I hope the inn owners tell the next potential muslim guest that all their rooms are booked or they might find themselves in court because the toilets are facing Mecca or the food isn't halal.

How could the British government think that this abuse of its citizenry is the way to establish good relations with hostile, litigious muslims? At least Americans take to the streets in protest, not that it does much good. But come election time, the betrayers will be looking for new jobs. The British keep re-electing the same idiots that are determined to give their country to muslim immigrant invaders.

Fawlty Towers indeed.

thanks dumbledoresarmy, I will check that link out.

This is an extremely disturbing use of the Public Order and Crime And Disorder Acts by Merseyside Police. It now seems as if any complaint made by a minority can – even if uncorroborated by a third party – potentially lead to a criminal record, possible ruin and even jail for any individual who is unfortunate enough to get on the ‘wrong’ side of a discussion.

All this has been made possible by the most Dhimmi administration in the world, the British Labour Government – who have trampled over the rights and customs of the British with draconian legislation (particularly aimed at the indigenous population to the benefit of the Muslim community); that would make a Banana Republic blush.

Shame on the Police – and even more the Crown Prosecution Service – for even considering bringing this sinister action to Court. The British are traditionally tolerant people who are slow to anger – the political élite should be on notice that they are beginning to awake to such treachery and interference with their traditional right to free expression.

Hesperado, now for something completely different. Thanks for reminding me of "Don't Mention The War". That episode still brings me to tears.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTk26zIQ_gk&feature=related

The UK has indeed gone under which is why the 'white flight' continues but never mind as all the educated, financially able, industrious wealth generating and loyal citizens depart they are being replaced by uneducated, anti British, work shy benefit scrounging immigrants married to baby machines . You know it makes sense and they normally do vote for their benefactors NuLabour.

Maybe you want to express your support to the Vogelenzangs. Here is their guestbook:

http://users2.smartgb.com/g/g.php?a=s&i=g25-35791-5a

I'm not certain if the MSM have covered this one yet - I expect that THE SUN will do so though.
I find it quite hilarious that so many people over here in the UK "believe" we have freedom of speech! Ha!
Our freedom of speech was thrown out of the window by Labour a long time ago.
We all know that the freedom of speech of the US is also under attack - so don't be suprised if we don't start seeing similar stories from across the pond anytime soon....

That goes for all other western countries, also.

buraq_is_dead has posted a link to this couples guest book.If anyone who has a spare minute to leave a message of support I can assure you it would be gratefully received
Reacher.

This story reminds me of the Martyrs of Cordoba; specifically of the martyrdom of Perfectus.

In 9th century Spain, during the Moslem occupation, Perfectus --a priest serving in the basilica-- was stopped by a group of Moslems and asked to give his opinion of the Moslem prophet, Mohammed.

He reluctantly gave his opinion and only after being reassured that he would suffer no harm in doing so. He then pronounced Mohammed to be a false prophet as foretold by Christ, whose immorality extended even to the seduction of his kinsman's wife. This last detail presumably a reference to Mohammed's marriage to his adopted son's wife, Zainab.

Long story short, earlier promises of safety to Perfectus were ultimately ignored and Perfectus, refusing to recant, was decapitated by the Moslems in celebration of the end of Ramadan.

I see more similaritites than differences between the stories of Mr and Mrs. Vogelenzang in 21st century UK and Fr. Perfectus in 9th century Spain.

When will the Reconquista of the UK begin in earnest?

"I see more similarities than differences between the stories of Mr. and Mrs. Vogelenzang in 21st century UK and Fr. Perfectus in 9th century Spain."

History does repeat itself.

I feel like I'm living in early 1930's Germany and watching the Nazis begin their rise. And some 21st century people fight back, and some capitulate, just as people did in early 1930's Germany.

Darcy, I have had the same feeling from time to time.

Lorem Ipsum,

I was referring to the Truthers (who believe 9/11 was a conspiracy by non-Muslims most likely members of the U.S. government), not the Birthers (the ones you mention who want Obama to produce a birth certificate). I wouldn't put the latter into the same category as the former.

as always, Muslims bitch about free speech and the truth about Islam....especially if spoken by Infidels...

There is now a link to donate on their website.

http://www.bountyhouse.co.uk