Boston Muslim a Misunderstander of Islam, was plotting "violent jihad"

You have to believe it can happen today and to you or you won't be prepared.

If you choose to be unprepared, what horor might you be inviting or permitting?

http://freemendo.typepad.com/undaunted/2008/11/this-just-in.html

"The killing of civilians was considered OK because civilians are taxpayers and are non-believers"
...................

These "misunderstanders", oddly, appear to have a classical Islamic understanding of whom it is Halal to murder--non-believers--non-Muslims--who are taxpayers to their own Infidel nations, but who do not pay protection money--the Jizya--to Muslims.

Muslims consider it open-season on such victims, and have proven so, in acts of violent Jihad terrorism, all over the world.

Just a matter of time...

http://freemendo.typepad.com/undaunted/2007/12/lessons-from-om.html

Ex-Presidents are only lightly protected by a small Secret Service detail, and VP's not at all. No matter what you may think of them personally or their politics, imagine the morale boost and propaganda coup these losers would reap by killing Clinton, Gore, Quayle, Mondale, Cheney, Bush Jr. or Senior, Jeb Bush, any of the wives, or even... Sarah Palin. Any governor, Congressman, Senator, etc would be huge, and these people have zero protection against a Jihad-style suicide attack. It seems like a matter of when, not if..

It's getting hard to keep up with all the Jihadi arrests in just the last month or two.

This fat bearded fiend had been plotting since 2001! Before Iraq, before Afghanistan. No doubt he was upset that the USA stood up for the Chosen People in the Promised Land.

This fat bearded fiend is the son of a college professor and a college grad.

Be very afraid of Muhammadans! All Muslims! They are the enemy.

The Religion of Peace strikes again.

Peacefully, of course.

"their desire to die on the battlefield," Islamists battelfield are unarmed civilians in shopping malls.
these brave muslim men only attack those who cannot defend themselves, that is why you see them attack women and children and when attacked by infidel soldiers these brave muslim hide among their women and children.

"Mehanna lives with his parents on Fairhaven Circle, a cul-de-sac off Hudson road. According to neighbors, his mother is a housewife and his father a professor at the Massachusetts College of Pharmacy. Tarek Mehanna was a graduate of that school.

According to another woman who lives on the street, Tarek Mehanna did an internship in the pharmacy at the Walgreen’s drug store in Marlborough within the past few years."

Why didn't he simply poison a dozen Infidels who came to have their prescriptions filled? Now that I think of it, what are the chances that a Muslim pharmacist, exhibiting Sudden Jihad Syndrome, does such a thing in the future? Is it irrational to foresee that happening? And if it is not irrational, then the pharmacies that employ such people, knowing that this is a distinct possiblity, may be liable to lawsuits that will center on this very issue of foreseeability. If I were CVS, or Walgreen's, or any of a number of stores that have pharmacies, or were I hiring for a stand-alone pharmacy, I might well wish to consider the implications, as to possible future liability.

Violence would only spark violence. Haven't you learn physics in your schools? The ongoing killings of the innocents would only generate cold blooded hate. To overturn the lies n hate is what we must do to beat the terrorist or would be terrorist. Overturning lies n hate would be the answer for peace for all of us. If we really are honest with ourselves. Keep on answering and questioning and we can make this world a better place n stop all the terrorism and the madmen.

Excellent point about foreseeability, Hugh.

The jihad craziness in Massachusetts this week almost makes one's head spin. Here you have a jihadist looking to shoot up a shopping mall, and then 75 miles away the looney lefties of Amherst, MA ACTUALLY VOTED TO ACCEPT GUANTANAMO PRISONERS. The left is truly completely divorced from reality:

http://michaelgraham.com/archives/what-kind-of-people-vote-to-welcome-gitmo-detainees-to-their-town/

Violence would only spark violence. Haven't you learn physics in your schools? The ongoing killings of the innocents would only generate cold blooded hate. To overturn the lies n hate is what we must do to beat the terrorist or would be terrorist. Overturning lies n hate would be the answer for peace for all of us. If we really are honest with ourselves. Keep on answering and questioning and we can make this world a better place n stop all the terrorism and the madmen.

Here's a better link on the story of the Amherst lefties that are pathalogically sympathetic to the gitmo prisoners:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/10/20/mass_town_eyed_for_guantanamo_detainees_if_freed/?s_campaign=8315

Things you should know. Go here

http://answering-questioning.blogspot.com/

Never give up to beat some sense into those who prefer blood then honey. Overturning lies n hate, is all that we got to do.

sri, you're silly.

From years of personal experience I can tell you there are plenty of people who only understand a good ass--beatin'.

Contrary to what finger-wagging sissies tell us, fighting does indeed solve everything.

Always with the "He seemed so nice..." interviews. Are people surprised when terrorists don't "look" evil?

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/10/sudbury_neighbo.html

His school had an "Arabian Nights" fundraiser where they raised money for "Palestinian Housing" and his father is apparently a professor of pharmacy at the same school.

The standards are very very high to get into pharmacy school. This man had to be very smart and hard working to get in. It also doesn't hurt to be a brown person in a liberal school in Mass.

.. plotting terrorist attacks that included shooting up shopping malls and targeting two unidentified U.S. officials...

Let this help us understand why honest and open discussion of Moslems and their belief system is verboten: the 6th Pillar of Islam.

*** 4:168 ***

... If I were CVS, or Walgreen's, or any of a number of stores that have pharmacies, or were I hiring for a stand-alone pharmacy, I might well wish to consider the implications, as to possible future liability.

Pull a stunt like that and you're going down big-time on an Affirmative Action count. Moslems don't comprise a race, but they are routinely victimized by racism because they are Moslems, and are quick to go to our ever vigilant globo-socialist government workers and judges (the latter don't really work) for protection and compensation.

Right Yankel, it's already beyond ridiculous,with another honor attack to boot. Definitely time to scrap health care talks and bring the troops home imo..These people neither deserve,want or appreciate any good intentions or are civilised enough to even think of being "normal". Obama can hit the road too and take his public funded sharia talkin' muslimas with him while hes at it.Three more years of this shite? And it's hittin' the fan(and the wallet and te peace of mind) REAL hard. The dove approach ain't workin' and the sheriff's outta town. Where's Charles Bronson or Davy Crockett and Jim Bowie..Someone better clean up Dodge,and quick!

Yankel : Be very afraid of Muhammadans! All Muslims! They are the enemy.

I have no reason to fear ANY moslem. They aren't rational enough to better me intellectually and they can't physically beat me.

I am concerned how our own people sell us out in the name of Political Correctness.

The moslems played their hand too early, now they will suffer the backlash of educated popular opinion.

There has already been a killing, a Jihad killing not by a Muslim but by an Islamochristian, a "Palestinian" -- carefully called a "Jordanian in the same way that that other "Palestinian," Al-Zarqawi, was always called a "Jordanian" -- as part however of Jihad.

The Jihad killer, taking revenge for American support for Israel: Sirhan Sirhan

The political leader: Robert Kennedy

Had Sirhan Sirhan been aware -- I don't think he was -- of Robert Kennedy's reports on the Arab-Israeli War of 1948-49 he might have tried to kill Kennedy even sooner.

When is Hussein going to take his second wife?

And that's just fine, isn't it, Michelle? As you wouldn't dare question your Mohammedan husband.

" his father a professor at the Massachusetts College of Pharmacy."

His daddy said "he would never do a thing like that..."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jkGkNQ5tvHkQQxF9m_GOSjQ4asZAD9BFLKJ81

Pull a stunt like that and you're going down big-time on an Affirmative Action count. Moslems don't comprise a race, but they are routinely victimized by racism because they are Moslems, and are quick to go to our ever vigilant globo-socialist government workers and judges (the latter don't really work) for protection and compensation.

Then to protect themselves, they need to make it a point to hire some CHRISTIAN middle-easterners, there are many of them over here. Since it's "race" we're talking about here.

Although it says Boston man, he is from a very wealthy town called Sudbury, which was founded way back in and around 1630 A.D. Not too many of Ye Olde Yankee New Englanders live there anymore.

The town next door is even more wealthy. That one is called Wayland, and Wayland has three notable features: Two synagogues along a stretch of road about one mile long. And, smack between an enormous in your face style mosque.

Normally, I wouldn't point these buildings and people out, but a few years back there was an international spy caught red-handed. He had been living there. He was from the Middle East.

A town or two to the west, there was a man who owned a local international finance business. The owner was convicted of selling certain information to the now deposed dictator of Iraq. His sentence was to wear a GPS/tracking ankle bracelet for a couple of years and a fine.

Abdullah Mikail might call this one a loner, only 1 of 500,000, a nobody, a nutcase....but one thing stands out...he's definitely been reading his Qur'an...

It just continues and goes on and on.

"Violence would only spark violence. Haven't you learn physics in your schools? The ongoing killings of the innocents would only generate cold blooded hate. To overturn the lies n hate is what we must do to beat the terrorist or would be terrorist. Overturning lies n hate would be the answer for peace for all of us. If we really are honest with ourselves. Keep on answering and questioning and we can make this world a better place n stop all the terrorism and the madmen."

I really don't understand who this comment is directed to. Do you think anyone here is promoting violence? If so, could you point to a specific comment you are replying to? Is this a plea to the would-be murder Jihadist? (I didn't think he read this site)

By the way, I looked at your blog and I'm frankly kind of confused by it. The tag says "A blog in an attempt to overturn the prejudice, the lies and the hate that has been generated by hatemongers. By right, cowardly liars who without any dignity or shame lied n lie to the innocent Worldwide Web surfers. Well, maybe not all are that innocent, but yet, they deserve the truth, if not entitled to it."
I can't tell who you actually think are hateful. Do you think Muslims are indeed hateful, and that there is an agenda to spread Islamic Sharia law? Or do you think that JW is hateful because it reports on hateful and violent actions by Islam?

Are you Muslim? (Your sidebar quotes from the Quran and videos by Yusuf Islam makes me think so). If so, do you think Mohammad was the perfect example for all time? What do you think about the "bad parts" of the Koran that declare warfare on the "kuffir"? Should they be cut out? What's your opinion on the conflict with Israel, Does Isreal have a right to exist, as it is reconized as a Jewish State? if not, why? How should Israel handle the attacks from Gaza?

Thanks. I await your answers.

"Violence would only spark violence. Haven't you learn physics in your schools? The ongoing killings of the innocents would only generate cold blooded hate. To overturn the lies n hate is what we must do to beat the terrorist or would be terrorist. Overturning lies n hate would be the answer for peace for all of us. If we really are honest with ourselves. Keep on answering and questioning and we can make this world a better place n stop all the terrorism and the madmen."

Let's exame newton vs islam.

Muslims spark violence whether or not someone else sparks it, then once the victim comes back with violence muslims warmingly welcome it. And then they return with violence not because of anothers violence but because jihad is their duty. Muslisms must slay the unbelievers where-ever they find them. The verse of the sword and islam in general don't care much for physics. Yeah, the physics are still happening regardless, but not for the reason you claimed.

(That comment was aimed at Sri by the way, I realized I forgot to include the name or use the reply tool. Oops.)

Sri: I also want to note, it comes off as a tad arrogant to say "things you should know" and then link to your own blog. one should be weary of those who offer advice because they say they have all the answers.

It would be different if you had said something like "I have an answer/thoughts on this here".

Thanks Foolster41, I bet U the type that ain't easily fooled eh? Sorry if I sounded snobbish n arrogant. I said, things U should know, not things U must believe. It stands as an alternative since not all U read in the mass media is the truth, n U know it.

The problem is that U guys flunk history or hate it or have some kind of allergy to it. I don't think I would crowded this kind gents' website n present all my point of views. Well, they are mine. U have yours. So do I. U have no power over me. Accept it or reject it. It's your call. Has always been. U sir, will suffer all the consequences of your actions n perceptions, whether U like or not, in this world or the next. Not me. So don't worry, no matter what U think, I won't judge U. U be your own judge.

There is a Malay saying that I want 2 share with U. 'Those who ate the chilli would taste the fiery taste.' Those who do not, won't, of course. So, U guys are smarter than me. U'll know if I'm talking 2 U or not. Don't forget, yes, the terrorists n the counter terrorist forces are reading us 2. Of course I'm talking 2 them 2. Well, sometimes I can't pin point their exact locations, being so highly more advance then me. But it doesn't really matter. If U want an argument, why not come to me. I promise not to moderate U, nor tiring U out by delaying U or adjusting this n that. Come. I dare U.

12.26 PM in the blessed lands of the Malay. Hope U r not asleep yet.

Sri:

"The problem is that U guys flunk history or hate it or have some kind of allergy to it. "

This claim is very old. Most Muslim apologists here make that claim, but then are silent on the details. Could you point out any historical errors you see on this site?

"I don't think I would crowded this kind gents' website n present all my point of views."
Having a different point of view seems like a TERRIBLE reason to avoid a website.

"sir, will suffer all the consequences of your actions n perceptions, whether U like or not, in this world or the next. Not me. So don't worry, no matter what U think, I won't judge U. U be your own judge."
This sounds awfully a lot like judging to me. Could you please point out how "this gent" (I assume you mean Mr. Spencer) is incorrect in their point of view?

"If U want an argument, why not come to me. I promise not to moderate U, nor tiring U out by delaying U or adjusting this n that. Come. I dare U."
Who says I want an argument? I don't, though I do enjoy intelligent debate (not the same). So far I haven't really seen much intelligent debate from you, only vague insinuations of ignorance. Mere name calling, and not any evidence of an incorrect point of view.

I also don't respond to dares. Maybe if you asked me nicely?

By the way, your use of text speech (using "n" for "and" and "u" for "you") is kind of annoying and one of the reasons I found your blog very very hard to read.

Also, I didn't quite get your answer who your original comment was directed to. You said something about talking to "terrorists n counter-terrorists" who read this, by this do you mean that your comment was directly aimed equally at those who are fighting terrorists? If so, how do you think anti-terrorists should respond to terrorist violence? Not react at all? What do you think would be the result, would terrorists just get bored? Since I already know you're most likely a Muslim from your blog, I get the impression that what you mean is what many Apologists here shout out "Kuffirs stop fighting us!" to which I whisper back "no." (Apologies to Alan Moore)

Also, I'd appreciate an answer to my questions.

Are you Muslim? (Your sidebar quotes from the Quran and videos by Yusuf Islam makes me think so). If so, do you think Mohammad was the perfect example for all time? What do you think about the "bad parts" of the Koran that declare warfare on the "kuffir"? Should they be cut out? What's your opinion on the conflict with Israel, Does Isreal have a right to exist, as it is reconized as a Jewish State? if not, why? How should Israel handle the attacks from Gaza?

Thanks Foolster41 for not chicken out on me. Hope you could survive me. I'm sorry for using n and sorts. It's my style I guess, considering the limited space n time I have in hand. You see, I'm a 24-7 husband and father of 4 super ultra kids that would knock the door every 5 minutes no matter what I promise or how I threaten them. Yes, they are spoil brats it seems. So I beg your pardon.

For your answers, promise me this. The door swings both ways, well, saloon doors to be more precise. I need you to promise me to answer my questions after I have satisfied your doubts. For starters, do you have a web page? What do you do for a living? And do you like music? oh, one more, what exactly do you believe in and which school of thoughts or groups do you belong to? And last but not least, you must after my answers, answer your own questions.

This is my answer to you, I am a Muslim. A member of the followers of the ways of Muhammad, the union of Muslims, ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaah. I obey no Mullahs, no holly men or saints controlled me, ever. So, yes, Muhammad was the best example of whatever involves the human questions. Be it sex, family matters, economy, war, food, healthy living, how to live, how to excrete our bodily waste, how to socialize with our parents, our friends and even our enemies, when to talk, when to fight, how to die, matters of menstruation and breast feeding, the dos and don'ts, all the good for us to follow and he had defined the evil of men clearly for us all to avoid as far as we can.

The bad part of the Koran? U give the verses, I will respond as quickly as I can. My Gallus gallus are anxious now. I have to cater for them too. If you read carefully, we were only allowed to fight those who spilled the first blood and drove us out from our homes and lands. But I let you post the verses you claimed as the bad part of the Koran that urged all Muslims to be terminators of infidels.

About Israel, yes they can exist, and the right to live side by side with Palestine. But they have to persecute those who are anti Semite that prey on the bloods of the Arabs. Confused? The Arabs are Semite see. They are descendants of Ismail, the older brother of Ishak, both are sons of Ibrahim who practised polygamy and had more than a wife at the same time. Don't believe me? Check it out yourself. So how can I say all the Israelite must die since they are descendants of holy prophets of Allah. Forget Sharon. He got what he deserved.

How to tackle the firecrackers attack from Gaza. Ask the Israelite to go back to the Green Line at least and returned all the lands that they confiscated legally by their laws, by killing and scaring the rightful land owners before Deir Yassin and after it. Give Golan back to Syria and Baitulmuqaddis back to Jordon. Everyone would lose the reason to fight and kill them in the first place. Oh, don't forget to ask Netanyahu to compensate them for the 60 years of illegal occupation and oppressions. And oh, stop importing Jews convert that are not even native to Palestine.

Don't overgeneralise the Muslims because of some idiots. We don't generalise all Christians as the soldiers of Christ that massacred the Jews under Hitler, do we?

You are not Nazi, are you? Your turn.

In responce to Sri:

"For starters, do you have a web page?"
Nothing like a blog, I do have a site where I dabble in fantasy writting (www.bikaesh.pbwiki.com) and writing materials for role playing games (www.d20toolbox.pbwiki.com)
"What do you do for a living?"
I'm a full time writer, which is to say I'm currently unemployed and looking for work but I write fiction and role playing materials as a hobby. I hope to someday be published in both of these things and be able to make money doing something I enjoy.

"And do you like music?" Yes. I assume you mean, what do I like? I like most any kind of music besides rap and country (no offense to those who like those types of music). My favorite bands/artists include Newsboys, Five Iron Frenzy, Bush, Radiohead and Thelonius Monk.

"What exactly do you believe in and which school of thoughts or groups do you belong to?"
I am a Christian, I believe that Jesus is God, fully man and fully god. That he was born of a virgin. He lived a perfect life, preformed miracles and then died for our sins and rose again on the third day. I don't really belong to any denominations per se.

"The bad part of the Koran? U give the verses, I will respond as quickly as I can."
How about Quran 9:5 which was revealed twords the end of Mohammad's life (And thus replaces older verses)?
8:67,9:29,9:111? See also http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101.html for more verses.
What do you think about Sharia law? Is it good? Should it replace western law? Do you live in a western country? (I live in the USA). What do you think about blasphemy laws and floggings and stonings as punishments? Are the good, or bad?

"About Israel, yes they can exist, and the right to live side by side with Palestine. But they have to persecute those who are anti Semite that prey on the bloods of the Arabs."
Do you beleive Anti-semetism is a perfectly reasonable view to have, and those "Anti-semites" should be left alone? If both Arabs and Jews are Semites as you said, then how can they be anti-semites? How are they "preying on the blood of the Arabs"?

"How to tackle the firecrackers attack from Gaza."
Right off, you belittle the attacks on Isreal that is causing both physical damage and KILLING innocents by calling them "firecrackers".

"Ask the Israelite to go back to the Green Line at least and returned all the lands that they confiscated legally by their laws,"
I agree it was legal, since they took it in a DEFENSIVE WAR when they were attacked in 1967. Or did you mean illegaly?

"by killing and scaring the rightful land owners before Deir Yassin and after it. Give Golan back to Syria and Baitulmuqaddis back to Jordon. Everyone would lose the reason to fight and kill them in the first place. Oh, don't forget to ask Netanyahu to compensate them for the 60 years of illegal occupation and oppressions. And oh, stop importing Jews convert that are not even native to Palestine."

I'm sorry, but you flunk history. Isreal's neighbors ATTACKED Isreal when Isreal declared independence, and that is why they have the land now. Remember, Isreal GAVE UP Gaza? Look how it's such a peaceful democracy! Oh wait, no. It's a slums military base that is constantly attacking Isreal. "Land for peace" is nonsense, and Gaza proved that the Muslims do not want peace, but domination.

IT HAS NEVER BEEN ABOUT THE LAND. Take a look at HAMAS's bloody anti-semetic charter that talks about pushing Isreal into the sea. Do you think they would revoke it, and stop broadcasting COMMANDS TO CHILDREN KILL JEWS? Contrast that with what Isreal's doing their best to avoid civilian casulties and NOT broadcasting rascist filth.

"Don't overgeneralise the Muslims because of some idiots. We don't generalise all Christians as the soldiers of Christ that massacred the Jews under Hitler, do we?"

I'm only generalizing Mulsims by what is written in the Quran and how they behave. There are many, many, many instances reported here of Muslims murdering and chanting "death to Jews" in the name of Allah. How many stories can you find where Christians, Buddhists, Mormons, etc. do the same?

Also, Hitler wasn't christian but a PAGAN. He consulted with occultists and he was fascinated with the occult. Generaly Occultism isn't accepted in the Christian mainstream. I highly recomend you read some more history. "The rise and fall of the third reich" is very good, from what I remember of reading it (Sorry, can't remember the author).

Also, it's funny you mentioned hitler. Did you know that the Grand Mufti of Jeruselim sided with Hitler, and helped in the purging of Jews?

"You are not Nazi, are you?"
No, I'm not. Questioning the horrors that Muslims do is not Nazism. You show by saying this that you wish to bully those who critize Islam into being silent, which puts you on the side of the Jihadists.

In responce to Sri:

"For starters, do you have a web page?"
Nothing like a blog, I do have a site where I dabble in fantasy writting (www.bikaesh.pbwiki.com) and writing materials for role playing games (www.d20toolbox.pbwiki.com)
"What do you do for a living?"
I'm a full time writer, which is to say I'm currently unemployed and looking for work but I write fiction and role playing materials as a hobby. I hope to someday be published in both of these things and be able to make money doing something I enjoy.

"And do you like music?" Yes. I assume you mean, what do I like? I like most any kind of music besides rap and country (no offense to those who like those types of music). My favorite bands/artists include Newsboys, Five Iron Frenzy, Bush, Radiohead and Thelonius Monk.

"What exactly do you believe in and which school of thoughts or groups do you belong to?"
I am a Christian, I believe that Jesus is God, fully man and fully god. That he was born of a virgin. He lived a perfect life, preformed miracles and then died for our sins and rose again on the third day. I don't really belong to any denominations per se.

"The bad part of the Koran? U give the verses, I will respond as quickly as I can."
How about Quran 9:5 which was revealed twords the end of Mohammad's life (And thus replaces older verses)?
8:67,9:29,9:111? See also http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101.html for more verses.
What do you think about Sharia law? Is it good? Should it replace western law? Do you live in a western country? (I live in the USA). What do you think about blasphemy laws and floggings and stonings as punishments? Are the good, or bad?

"About Israel, yes they can exist, and the right to live side by side with Palestine. But they have to persecute those who are anti Semite that prey on the bloods of the Arabs."
Do you beleive Anti-semetism is a perfectly reasonable view to have, and those "Anti-semites" should be left alone? If both Arabs and Jews are Semites as you said, then how can they be anti-semites? How are they "preying on the blood of the Arabs"?

"How to tackle the firecrackers attack from Gaza."
Right off, you belittle the attacks on Isreal that is causing both physical damage and KILLING innocents by calling them "firecrackers".

"Ask the Israelite to go back to the Green Line at least and returned all the lands that they confiscated legally by their laws,"
I agree it was legal, since they took it in a DEFENSIVE WAR when they were attacked in 1967. Or did you mean illegaly?

"by killing and scaring the rightful land owners before Deir Yassin and after it. Give Golan back to Syria and Baitulmuqaddis back to Jordon. Everyone would lose the reason to fight and kill them in the first place. Oh, don't forget to ask Netanyahu to compensate them for the 60 years of illegal occupation and oppressions. And oh, stop importing Jews convert that are not even native to Palestine."

I'm sorry, but you flunk history. Isreal's neighbors ATTACKED Isreal when Isreal declared independence, and that is why they have the land now. Remember, Isreal GAVE UP Gaza? Look how it's such a peaceful democracy! Oh wait, no. It's a slums military base that is constantly attacking Isreal. "Land for peace" is nonsense, and Gaza proved that the Muslims do not want peace, but domination.

IT HAS NEVER BEEN ABOUT THE LAND. Take a look at HAMAS's bloody anti-semetic charter that talks about pushing Isreal into the sea. Do you think they would revoke it, and stop broadcasting COMMANDS TO CHILDREN KILL JEWS? Contrast that with what Isreal's doing their best to avoid civilian casulties and NOT broadcasting rascist filth.

"Don't overgeneralise the Muslims because of some idiots. We don't generalise all Christians as the soldiers of Christ that massacred the Jews under Hitler, do we?"

I'm only generalizing Mulsims by what is written in the Quran and how they behave. There are many, many, many instances reported here of Muslims murdering and chanting "death to Jews" in the name of Allah. How many stories can you find where Christians, Buddhists, Mormons, etc. do the same?

Also, Hitler wasn't christian but a PAGAN. He consulted with occultists and he was fascinated with the occult. Generaly Occultism isn't accepted in the Christian mainstream. I highly recomend you read some more history. "The rise and fall of the third reich" is very good, from what I remember of reading it (Sorry, can't remember the author).

Also, it's funny you mentioned hitler. Did you know that the Grand Mufti of Jeruselim sided with Hitler, and helped in the purging of Jews?

"You are not Nazi, are you?"
No, I'm not. Questioning the horrors that Muslims do is not Nazism. You show by saying this that you wish to bully those who critize Islam into being silent, which puts you on the side of the Jihadists.

In responce to Sri:

"For starters, do you have a web page?"
Nothing like a blog, I do have a site where I dabble in fantasy writting (www.bikaesh.pbwiki.com) and writing materials for role playing games (www.d20toolbox.pbwiki.com)
"What do you do for a living?"
I'm a full time writer, which is to say I'm currently unemployed and looking for work but I write fiction and role playing materials as a hobby. I hope to someday be published in both of these things and be able to make money doing something I enjoy.

"And do you like music?" Yes. I assume you mean, what do I like? I like most any kind of music besides rap and country (no offense to those who like those types of music). My favorite bands/artists include Newsboys, Five Iron Frenzy, Bush, Radiohead and Thelonius Monk.

"What exactly do you believe in and which school of thoughts or groups do you belong to?"
I am a Christian, I believe that Jesus is God, fully man and fully god. That he was born of a virgin. He lived a perfect life, preformed miracles and then died for our sins and rose again on the third day. I don't really belong to any denominations per se.

"The bad part of the Koran? U give the verses, I will respond as quickly as I can."
How about Quran 9:5 which was revealed twords the end of Mohammad's life (And thus replaces older verses)?
8:67,9:29,9:111? See also http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101.html for more verses.
What do you think about Sharia law? Is it good? Should it replace western law? Do you live in a western country? (I live in the USA). What do you think about blasphemy laws and floggings and stonings as punishments? Are the good, or bad?

"About Israel, yes they can exist, and the right to live side by side with Palestine. But they have to persecute those who are anti Semite that prey on the bloods of the Arabs."
Do you beleive Anti-semetism is a perfectly reasonable view to have, and those "Anti-semites" should be left alone? If both Arabs and Jews are Semites as you said, then how can they be anti-semites? How are they "preying on the blood of the Arabs"?

"How to tackle the firecrackers attack from Gaza."
Right off, you belittle the attacks on Isreal that is causing both physical damage and KILLING innocents by calling them "firecrackers".

"Ask the Israelite to go back to the Green Line at least and returned all the lands that they confiscated legally by their laws,"
I agree it was legal, since they took it in a DEFENSIVE WAR when they were attacked in 1967. Or did you mean illegaly?

"by killing and scaring the rightful land owners before Deir Yassin and after it. Give Golan back to Syria and Baitulmuqaddis back to Jordon. Everyone would lose the reason to fight and kill them in the first place. Oh, don't forget to ask Netanyahu to compensate them for the 60 years of illegal occupation and oppressions. And oh, stop importing Jews convert that are not even native to Palestine."

I'm sorry, but you flunk history. Isreal's neighbors ATTACKED Isreal when Isreal declared independence, and that is why they have the land now. Remember, Isreal GAVE UP Gaza? Look how it's such a peaceful democracy! Oh wait, no. It's a slums military base that is constantly attacking Isreal. "Land for peace" is nonsense, and Gaza proved that the Muslims do not want peace, but domination.

IT HAS NEVER BEEN ABOUT THE LAND. Take a look at HAMAS's bloody anti-semetic charter that talks about pushing Isreal into the sea. Do you think they would revoke it, and stop broadcasting COMMANDS TO CHILDREN KILL JEWS? Contrast that with what Isreal's doing their best to avoid civilian casulties and NOT broadcasting rascist filth.

"Don't overgeneralise the Muslims because of some idiots. We don't generalise all Christians as the soldiers of Christ that massacred the Jews under Hitler, do we?"

I'm only generalizing Mulsims by what is written in the Quran and how they behave. There are many, many, many instances reported here of Muslims murdering and chanting "death to Jews" in the name of Allah. How many stories can you find where Christians, Buddhists, Mormons, etc. do the same?

Also, Hitler wasn't christian but a PAGAN. He consulted with occultists and he was fascinated with the occult. Generaly Occultism isn't accepted in the Christian mainstream. I highly recomend you read some more history. "The rise and fall of the third reich" is very good, from what I remember of reading it (Sorry, can't remember the author).

Also, it's funny you mentioned hitler. Did you know that the Grand Mufti of Jeruselim sided with Hitler, and helped in the purging of Jews?

"You are not Nazi, are you?"
No, I'm not. Questioning the horrors that Muslims do is not Nazism. You show by saying this that you wish to bully those who critize Islam into being silent, which puts you on the side of the Jihadists.

Woah! Sorry for the triple post there. I'm currently having Internet problems, and I was told twice that it didn't go through.

I'm experiencing the same thing, maybe the traffic overload. Thanks for your interaction with me. I hope it would show others that you don't have to kill n hate someone who is not the same with you, be it political views or whatever. We can coexist. I've been waiting for your comments, I'm glad you are still here. I hope you could wait for my response.

I have to prepare some notes for kindergarten teachers and they are having their graduation ceremony today. So I have to ask you to have patience with me. Don't worry Foolster41, judging from your way of thinking and writing, you are a good writer. Fortune maybe waiting for you just around the corner. Have faith my friend.

7.10 a.m. in the blessed lands of the Malay, and I have till 10.00 to finish up everything.

Sri said: "I hope it would show others that you don't have to kill n hate someone who is not the same with you, be it political views or whatever. We can coexist."
Who are these others? Do you mean Jihadists? JW posters? If the later, I think there would be very very few if any (I hate to say "never") who has said that they had to "kill n hate" others or has given indication they beleive so.

Muslims are the ones preaching and practicing violence. I'm happy enough to coexist with them (as I imagine Mr. Spencer et. al. are) as long as they put down their weapons and renounce the ideals of political Islam that wishes to subjugate others either through politics or violence.

In the meantime, I await your response.

Thanks 4 the info, since it is about 29 pages n had more than two links, give me some time now to understand them first n prepare my rebuttals. I don't treat all the accusations lightly n I won't treat them as the same old story that I've been getting in the net all this while. You're a great help. Wish me luck. I mean 4 my job. 10.50 am. Logging off.

I never meant to say I wanted you to answer immediately, only that I look foreword to it, sorry if I came off as pushy/impatient. I know people who have jobs/kids have less time than me, I can wait.

Oh, and never mind about the question of where you are. I realized shortly after I asked that you mentioned Malaysia a few times. Doh.

I don't know what you meant has "29 pages", but the first two links I gave are just my personal sites I dabble with, and don't really have anything to do with anything. I won't be offended if you don't read them.

Sorry 4 the delay Foolster41, but for your time, I will address the issues raised one at a time. U see, the Koran was not sent down as a whole book, but verse per verse, according to the suitable occasions for it, not before, not a long after, just right. It must, if not, it would confuse the Muslims at that time, of course.

The verse that U are referring to was revealed when the infidels at that time, specifically those living side by side with the Prophet had broken their treaty or promise to him. So, being so hostile, they deserved what they got.

Some fanatics just misquote this verse, separated from other verse, which is unwise since if U misquote me like now, it won’t make any sense to U, don’t U agree. So allow me to give the verses that U left out.

Repentance
[9:1]
A declaration of immunity from God and His Messenger to the idolaters with whom you made a pact:

[9:2]
'Journey freely in the land for four months, and know that you cannot escape God, and that God degrades the disbelievers'.

[9:3]
A proclamation from God and His Messenger to mankind on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage that God is free from obligation to the idolaters, and [so is] His Messenger. So, if you repent, it will be better for you; but if you turn away, then know that you cannot escape God. And give tidings to those who disbelieve of a painful chastisement.

[9:4]
Excepting those of the idolaters with whom you have made a pact, and who have not diminished [their commitment to] you in anyway, nor supported anyone against you; [as for these] fulfil your pact with them until the term. Truly God loves those who fear [Him].

[9:5]
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, and establish prayer and pay the alms, then leave their way free. God is Forgiving, Merciful.

[9:6]
And if any one of the idolaters seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he might hear the words of God and afterward convey him to his place of security - that is because they are a people who do not know.

[9:7]
How can the idolaters have a pact with God and His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a pact at the Sacred Mosque? So long as they are true to you, be true to them. Truly God loves the God-fearing.

[9:8]
How, when, if they get the better of you, they do not respect any bond or treaty with regard to you, pleasing you with their tongues, while their hearts refuse, and most of them are wicked.

[9:28]
O you who believe, the idolaters are indeed unclean, so do not let them come near the Sacred Mosque after this year of theirs. If you fear impoverishment, God will surely enrich you from His bounty, if He will. God is Knowing, Wise.

[9:29]
Fight those who do not believe in God, nor in the Last Day, and who do not forbid what God and His Messenger have forbidden, nor do they practise the religion of truth, from among of those who have been given the Scripture, until they pay the jizya tribute, readily being subdued.

[9:30]
The Jews say: Ezra is the son of God; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of God. That is the utterance of their mouths, imitating the utterances of those who disbelieved before [them]. God assail them! How they are deviated!

[9:31]
They have taken their rabbis and their monks as lords beside God and the Messiah, son of Mary, when they were not commanded, except to worship One God: there is no god except Him; glory be to Him above what they associate [with Him].

[9:32]
They desire to extinguish God's light with their tongues; and God refuses but to perfect His light, even though the disbelievers be averse.

[9:33]
He it is Who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, that He may manifest it over every religion, even though the disbelievers be averse.

[9:34]
O you who believe, many of the rabbis and monks indeed consume people's goods by false means, and bar from the way of God. And those who hoard up gold and silver, and do not expend them in the way of God - give them tidings of a painful chastisement.

[9:35]
On the day when it shall be heated in the fire of Hell and therewith their foreheads and their sides and their backs shall be branded, 'This is what you hoarded up for yourselves: so taste now what you used to hoard!'

[9:111]
Indeed God has purchased from the believers their lives and their possessions, so that theirs will be [the reward of] Paradise: they shall fight in the way of God and they shall kill and be killed; that is a promise which is binding upon Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur’ān; and who fulfils his covenant better than God? Rejoice then in this bargain of yours which you have made, for that is the supreme triumph.

[9:112]
Those who repent, those who worship, those who give praise, those who fast, those who bow, those who prostrate themselves, those who enjoin decency and forbid to indecency, those who maintain God's bounds, and give good tidings to the believers.

Asbabun Nuzul or the cause of the verse to be revealed had been told by Muhammad bin Ka’ab al-Qurazhi, what are the obligation of me that I have towards you and God.

U see, Muslims won’t fight unless they are attacked, threaten with death and exile. Any humans being would fight, not just Muslims if their life n possessions were at stake. Ask the psychologists, they know.

The Idol worshippers were threatening the Muslims, what do U have them do? Flee, like the companions of Jesus who were greatly outnumbered by the Roman armies and betrayed by their own brothers, the Israelite?

Oh, I forgot to mention, this is the only verse that Allah didn’t begin with his name,

In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful

They broke the treaty what do U expect, even the Red Indian rose against the tyranny of the white man, but succumbed to defeat with their buffaloes, and the great plain would never be the same again.

What would the Salthans do if they were oppressed, threaten, and denied of their rights. Cry?

9:6 answers everything. Don't leave them out and scare yourself!

[9:6]
And if any one of the idolaters seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he might hear the words of God and afterward convey him to his place of security - that is because they are a people who do not know.

One more verse if I may,

The Disbelievers
With the name of Allah, the All-Merciful, the Very-Merciful.
[109:1]
Say, “O disbelievers,

[109:2]
I do not worship that which you worship,

[109:3]
nor do you worship the One whom I worship.

[109:4]
And neither I am going to worship that which you have worshipped,

[109:5]
nor will you worship the One whom I worship.

[109:6]
For you is your faith, and for me, my faith.”

So U see, there is no compulsion in religion.
Now answer me this, what's your explanation?

Chronicles, 15:12-13
'All who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.

the Bible (Deuteronomy, 13:6-10)
13:6 If–your brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daughter, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend, which is as your own soul–entice you secretly, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods,” which you have not known–not you, nor your fathers;

13:7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, near to you, or far off from you, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

13:8 You shall not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall your eye pity him, neither shall you spare, neither shall you conceal him:

13:9 But you must surely kill him; your hand must be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

13:10 And you must stone him with stones, that he die; because he has sought to thrust you away from the LORD your God.

Your turn.

Thanks for your reply. could you please give citations of proof that these infidels broke their treaty first? This is a common claim that it's the infidel's fault.

I don't see any named specific group of people or a period of time in these verses. Could you please cite something that shows these verses only are within a limited context. and not applicable today?

As for your quoting of scripture it is pure Tu QuQue. Whether or not there are violence in the bible has nothing to do with whether or not there is violence in the Quran. Also, you quote as all Muslim apologists do from the OLD testament. Islam came after the NEW testament, and therefore Mohammad's behavior should be measure against Jesus'. Jesus never killed anyone (even in self defense) and never married (so even accusations of underage marriage, polygamy and marital abuse are out). How many are true of Mohammad?

At any rate, could you please show wide spread cases of Jews and/or Christians who are following these practices you mentioned? There are quite a few instances of Muslims who are taking the Quran's violence as being relevant for today and stoning apostates and terrorizing and killing peaceful non-believers (Reported about every day here). So you believe these people in Saudia Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Gaza, Etc. are not truly Muslim? If not, what scripture can you use to back up your case, and prove to them they are misunderstanding Islam?

9:6 isn't an answer at all. "Protection" means the Muslim being SUPERIOR to the person seeking protection, meaning one must submit to slavery to Islam, pay the poll tax, not be allowed to preach, not allowed to display religious symbols. So, I won't be attacked if I give up my rights to Islam? No thank you.

I stand by my statement that Muslims are preaching war and hate in the name of Islam. They are spreading lies and hate, so why not reach out to them and tell them they are wrong?

Thanks 4 the reply, but U didn't answer my question Foolster41. Please answer them so that we can continue after that.

I've got an offer via mail from reader's digest stating that I'm among the lucky 2% of all the people to receive the chance of winning a car if I become a subscriber, can I trust them, Foolster41?

If 9:6 is not an answer, how about this one,

[2:190]
Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight you, and do not transgress. Verily, Allah does not like the transgressors.

[2:191]
Kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from where they drove you out, as Fitnah (to create disorder) is more severe than killing. However, do not fight them near Al-Masjid-ul-Harām (the Sacred Mosque in Makkah) unless they fight you there. However, if they fight you (there) you may kill them. Such is the reward of the disbelievers.

[2:192]
But if they desist, then indeed, Allah is Most-Forgiving, Very- Merciful.

[2:193]
Fight them until there is no Fitnah any more, and obedience remains for Allah. But, if they desist, then aggression is not allowed except against the transgressors.

Just to be certain, did Jesus have the chance of getting married or the Israelite that were collaborating with the dreaded Roman armies were too impatient of crucifying him then, being so annoying and always prohibiting them the freedom of sex n wealth upon the miseries of others? Yes, just like Madoff.

In which verse in the New Testament or the Old Testament, did Jesus declared he was god or the son of God and asked the Israelite to worship him? N which verse that state O mankind, O the people of the world, besides O Israelite, or O my people which specifically refer to the Israelite.

You have to explain the verses Foolster41, if not, our readers won't be easily convinced on your arguments. No citations needed, just the verses and your own opinions. You have to give me some time now, cause I won't quote something purely on memory basis. I won't do that. It's not that intellectual. I have to do some cross references, to make sure the citation has some credible and accepted in the world of history scholars. No self declared scholar is recognised with a lone proof or a stand alone fact, U know the drill. It would not impress them, U know how it is with scholars. They are nobody's fool. So give me some time now.

You didn't answer my questions on the Salthans 2? What would U have them do? Being brutally attacked, smeared with shits, their babies n children slaughtered just for target practise, on daily basis and everything was sponsored by the mightiest democracy in the world, the bullets n bombs n the fancy terminator machines are all made in the USA! What would U have them do? Ignored those who support your aggressors with money and bombs?

If being unmarried is so holy and get U closer to god, what the heck is all the white slaves of sex n porn that booms like mushroom n all the millions of babies being aborted on yearly basis in your country man? Stop all the hideous unmarried sex activities and be a loveable person of god like Jesus, like you have claimed. What the hell that drove the preachers n holy men of your church doing, preying on little boys under their protection, only to be discovered years later when they file suit when they were men? Muhammad?

Why the late apologies by the Pope, denouncing the accusation of centuries of popes before him, that the Jews were not to be blame for the crucification of Christ and it was the Romans, when in fact, the Romans were the one who spread Christianity to Europe by slaying the native tribes there that were not even Christians! Can U trust the same Romans that slew the son of god and then preaching his ways almost a hundred years later on? Were they the companions of Jesus, like the companions of Muhammad?

What's your explanation of the extinction of the buffaloes and the hunters that hunted them. About millions of them perished so that the white Christians could build USA only to kill each other over slavery of black Muslims, that still baffles me why in the end, they chose to be Christians, the same faith of their oppressors and killers? As same as the Malay Philipino, Jose Rizal was treated like a dog by his fellow Christians, the Spanish invaders, so did the Christian Chinese, who after being degraded by opium traders of the Christian West, converted to the same faith of their tormentors. Stockholm syndrome?

Answer them first, and I'm not going into Iraq and Afghanistan yet. How many Iraqi and Aghani terrorists or military camps are there in the USA, 1, 2 or 3? Were they bombing the US civilians on daily basis?

I give U a hint that would help U a lot in a debate or a discussion. Don't ask something that U wouldn't want the other person U are talking 2, to ask U the exact same questions, not unless U have the right answers, of course.

Another question for U, Do U read the bible? if U do, is it on daily basis? 5 times a day like the Muslims, not counting the voluntarily basis. If U do, in what language? Hebrew or is it a translated version and also according to whom?

3:30 P.M. Please state the time where U are. At least I know when should I return to this page. Thanks.

I'm sorry, I don't know which question you mean. I had thought I had answered all your questions, but if I missed one

please point it out. Maybe you mean the Salthan one? (see below)

Sri said:"Just to be certain, did Jesus have the chance of getting married or the Israelite that were collaborating

with the dreaded Roman armies were too impatient of crucifying him then, being so annoying and always prohibiting

them the freedom of sex n wealth upon the miseries of others? Yes, just like Madoff."

Please don't use run-on sentences they are very hard to read. Basicly you're saying Jesus didn't have the chance

during his THIRTY THREE years of life to get married? I find this unlikely.

Barney Maddoff? Was this a "Jewish conspiricy" refrence? One, Jesus was a jew. Two, there is no global "Jewish

conspiricy" and three I suggest you look into what major foce in WWII also was pushing this propaganda before you go

supporting it. Hint: it rhymes with "bitler".

Sri Said: "In which verse in the New Testament or the Old Testament, did Jesus declared he was god or the son of God

and asked the Israelite to worship him? N which verse that state O mankind, O the people of the world, besides O

Israelite, or O my people which specifically refer to the Israelite."

"Jesus Answered 'I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me.'" -John 4:6
"You may destroy this temple, but I will rebuild it in three days."
"But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him: 'I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you

are the Christ, the sun of god.' 'Yes, it is as you say' Jesus replied." - Matthew 26:63-64a
Jesus was either: (1) A liar, (2) Crazy to the point of beleiving himself a poached egg or (3) Lord. There is no

other choice. (Paraphrase from C. S. Lewis, "Mere Christianity")

Sri Said: "You didn't answer my questions on the Salthans 2? What would U have them do? Being brutally attacked,

smeared with shits, their babies n children slaughtered just for target practise, on daily basis and everything was

sponsored by the mightiest democracy in the world, the bullets n bombs n the fancy terminator machines are all made

in the USA! What would U have them do? Ignored those who support your aggressors with money and bombs?"

Well, Saltha is a fictional world, I didn't answer because I thought it was retorical, and irelevant. They would

fight back if they were being directly attacked. This is beside the point, I'm not questioning whether one

should fight back, but whether the Infidels DID INDEED break a treaty and attack the Muslims, with proof that they

did so. Also, present proof that the command to slay was contained to that the one time and place (I see neither

mention of time nor place in any of the slaying verses).

Sri Said: "If being unmarried is so holy and get U closer to god, what the heck is all the white slaves of sex n porn

that booms like mushroom n all the millions of babies being aborted on yearly basis in your country man? Stop all the

hideous unmarried sex activities and be a loveable person of god like Jesus, like you have claimed."

I have made no such claim, You're putting words in my mouth. I never said marriage was bad. I mearly pointed out that

Jesus CANNOT be accused of polygamy or maritial abuse because he wasn't married. Mohammad was married, in fact

consumated with a 9 year old and he has commanded for men to beat wives. He also asked for someone to murder a poet

who critisized him. (Volume 4, Book 52, Number 270). If you follow such a man as a great example of all time then

something is wrong.

Sri said: "What the hell that drove the preachers n holy men of your church doing, preying on little boys under their

protection, only to be discovered years later when they file suit when they were men? Muhammad?"

Also, more Tu Quo Que. (Tu Quo Que means basicly "you too!" If you don't know what Tu Quo Que is, please look it up.

It's a logical fallacy.) Just because those who are or claim to be Christians do evil does not negate the evil done

by Islam, and Christians do so IN CONTERDICTION of the commands of thier god.

Maybe you havn't noticed, but America is becoming less and less Christian/religious over the last 30 years. Porn and

opbsession with sex has increased as church attendence/beleif in God is decreasing. Christians are the ones in fact

trying to get porn shops and strip clubs closed down. This is a common claim by Muslims and Islamists such as Osama

Bin ladin that the Christian America is spreading corruption, but this projects anti-Christian heathenism onto

Christianity and ignores the fact that America is moving steadily twords Aithism.

Sri Said: "Why the late apologies by the Pope, denouncing the accusation of centuries of popes before him, that the

Jews were not to be blame for the crucification of Christ and it was the Romans, when in fact, the Romans were the

one who spread Christianity to Europe by slaying the native tribes there that were not even Christians! Can U trust

the same Romans that slew the son of god and then preaching his ways almost a hundred years later on? Were they the

companions of Jesus, like the companions of Muhammad?"

There is NO biblical evidence to support anti-semetism that has been in the catholic church. Again, they did evil

DESPITE the commands of Jesus. Nowhere did Jesus commanded in ANY circumstance to kill other people. The same cannot

be said of MOhammad.

Sri: "What's your explanation of the extinction of the buffaloes and the hunters that hunted them. About millions of

them perished so that the white Christians could build USA only to kill each other over slavery of black Muslims,

that still baffles me why in the end, they chose to be Christians, the same faith of their oppressors and killers? As

same as the Malay Philipino, Jose Rizal was treated like a dog by his fellow Christians, the Spanish invaders, so did

the Christian Chinese, who after being degraded by opium traders of the Christian West, converted to the same faith

of their tormentors. Stockholm syndrome?"

REALLY? you're tu quo queing the killing of buffalo, compared to the evils Islam has done and is currently doing?!

Could you please cite a verse that says "slay ye the buffalo" in the bible? I already answered this and the rest of

this basicly the same as above, Re: Tu Quo Que.

"I give U a hint that would help U a lot in a debate or a discussion. Don't ask something that U wouldn't want the

other person U are talking 2, to ask U the exact same questions, not unless U have the right answers, of course."

I havn't asked any questions that I wouldn't want asked to me. So far, you havn't really presented any strong

arguments, nothing but Tu Quo Que.

Sri: "Answer them first, and I'm not going into Iraq and Afghanistan yet. How many Iraqi and Aghani terrorists or

military camps are there in the USA, 1, 2 or 3? Were they bombing the US civilians on daily basis?"
I have no idea how many bases there are. Could you cite proof that the US is "boming civilians on a daily basis" as

you seem to imply? Do you think America shouldn't go after Osama Bin Laden after he murdered thousands?

Sri: "Another question for U, Do U read the bible? if U do, is it on daily basis? 5 times a day like the Muslims, not

counting the voluntarily basis. If U do, in what language? Hebrew or is it a translated version and also according to

whom?"
I do read the bible, maybe once or twice a week, not as much as I'd like to. It's an english NIV. In fact, I have it

open right now.

I HIGHLY suggest you read the Islam-101 page I linked to. here it is again: http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101.html
Especialy read the points in part 3 ("conclusion") as I think it answers many of the points you are making.

It's currently 1:40pm in the land of the free and home of the brave.

I'm sorry, I don't know which question you mean. I had thought I had answered all your questions, but if I missed one

please point it out. Maybe you mean the Salthan one? (see below)

Sri said:"Just to be certain, did Jesus have the chance of getting married or the Israelite that were collaborating

with the dreaded Roman armies were too impatient of crucifying him then, being so annoying and always prohibiting

them the freedom of sex n wealth upon the miseries of others? Yes, just like Madoff."

Please don't use run-on sentences they are very hard to read. Basicly you're saying Jesus didn't have the chance

during his THIRTY THREE years of life to get married? I find this unlikely.

Barney Maddoff? Was this a "Jewish conspiricy" refrence? One, Jesus was a jew. Two, there is no global "Jewish

conspiricy" and three I suggest you look into what major foce in WWII also was pushing this propaganda before you go

supporting it. Hint: it rhymes with "bitler".

Sri Said: "In which verse in the New Testament or the Old Testament, did Jesus declared he was god or the son of God

and asked the Israelite to worship him? N which verse that state O mankind, O the people of the world, besides O

Israelite, or O my people which specifically refer to the Israelite."

"Jesus Answered 'I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me.'" -John 4:6
"You may destroy this temple, but I will rebuild it in three days."
"But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him: 'I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you

are the Christ, the sun of god.' 'Yes, it is as you say' Jesus replied." - Matthew 26:63-64a
Jesus was either: (1) A liar, (2) Crazy to the point of beleiving himself a poached egg or (3) Lord. There is no

other choice. (Paraphrase from C. S. Lewis, "Mere Christianity")

Sri Said: "You didn't answer my questions on the Salthans 2? What would U have them do? Being brutally attacked,

smeared with shits, their babies n children slaughtered just for target practise, on daily basis and everything was

sponsored by the mightiest democracy in the world, the bullets n bombs n the fancy terminator machines are all made

in the USA! What would U have them do? Ignored those who support your aggressors with money and bombs?"

Well, Saltha is a fictional world, I didn't answer because I thought it was retorical, and irelevant. They would

fight back if they were being directly attacked. This is beside the point, I'm not questioning whether one

should fight back, but whether the Infidels DID INDEED break a treaty and attack the Muslims, with proof that they

did so. Also, present proof that the command to slay was contained to that the one time and place (I see neither

mention of time nor place in any of the slaying verses).

Sri Said: "If being unmarried is so holy and get U closer to god, what the heck is all the white slaves of sex n porn

that booms like mushroom n all the millions of babies being aborted on yearly basis in your country man? Stop all the

hideous unmarried sex activities and be a loveable person of god like Jesus, like you have claimed."

I have made no such claim, You're putting words in my mouth. I never said marriage was bad. I mearly pointed out that

Jesus CANNOT be accused of polygamy or maritial abuse because he wasn't married. Mohammad was married, in fact

consumated with a 9 year old and he has commanded for men to beat wives. He also asked for someone to murder a poet

who critisized him. (Volume 4, Book 52, Number 270). If you follow such a man as a great example of all time then

something is wrong.

Sri said: "What the hell that drove the preachers n holy men of your church doing, preying on little boys under their

protection, only to be discovered years later when they file suit when they were men? Muhammad?"

Also, more Tu Quo Que. (Tu Quo Que means basicly "you too!" If you don't know what Tu Quo Que is, please look it up.

It's a logical fallacy.) Just because those who are or claim to be Christians do evil does not negate the evil done

by Islam, and Christians do so IN CONTERDICTION of the commands of thier god.

Maybe you havn't noticed, but America is becoming less and less Christian/religious over the last 30 years. Porn and

opbsession with sex has increased as church attendence/beleif in God is decreasing. Christians are the ones in fact

trying to get porn shops and strip clubs closed down. This is a common claim by Muslims and Islamists such as Osama

Bin ladin that the Christian America is spreading corruption, but this projects anti-Christian heathenism onto

Christianity and ignores the fact that America is moving steadily twords Aithism.

Sri Said: "Why the late apologies by the Pope, denouncing the accusation of centuries of popes before him, that the

Jews were not to be blame for the crucification of Christ and it was the Romans, when in fact, the Romans were the

one who spread Christianity to Europe by slaying the native tribes there that were not even Christians! Can U trust

the same Romans that slew the son of god and then preaching his ways almost a hundred years later on? Were they the

companions of Jesus, like the companions of Muhammad?"

There is NO biblical evidence to support anti-semetism that has been in the catholic church. Again, they did evil

DESPITE the commands of Jesus. Nowhere did Jesus commanded in ANY circumstance to kill other people. The same cannot

be said of MOhammad.

Sri: "What's your explanation of the extinction of the buffaloes and the hunters that hunted them. About millions of

them perished so that the white Christians could build USA only to kill each other over slavery of black Muslims,

that still baffles me why in the end, they chose to be Christians, the same faith of their oppressors and killers? As

same as the Malay Philipino, Jose Rizal was treated like a dog by his fellow Christians, the Spanish invaders, so did

the Christian Chinese, who after being degraded by opium traders of the Christian West, converted to the same faith

of their tormentors. Stockholm syndrome?"

REALLY? you're tu quo queing the killing of buffalo, compared to the evils Islam has done and is currently doing?!

Could you please cite a verse that says "slay ye the buffalo" in the bible? I already answered this and the rest of

this basicly the same as above, Re: Tu Quo Que.

"I give U a hint that would help U a lot in a debate or a discussion. Don't ask something that U wouldn't want the

other person U are talking 2, to ask U the exact same questions, not unless U have the right answers, of course."

I havn't asked any questions that I wouldn't want asked to me. So far, you havn't really presented any strong

arguments, nothing but Tu Quo Que.

Sri: "Answer them first, and I'm not going into Iraq and Afghanistan yet. How many Iraqi and Aghani terrorists or

military camps are there in the USA, 1, 2 or 3? Were they bombing the US civilians on daily basis?"
I have no idea how many bases there are. Could you cite proof that the US is "boming civilians on a daily basis" as

you seem to imply? Do you think America shouldn't go after Osama Bin Laden after he murdered thousands?

Sri: "Another question for U, Do U read the bible? if U do, is it on daily basis? 5 times a day like the Muslims, not

counting the voluntarily basis. If U do, in what language? Hebrew or is it a translated version and also according to

whom?"
I do read the bible, maybe once or twice a week, not as much as I'd like to. It's an english NIV. In fact, I have it

open right now.

I HIGHLY suggest you read the Islam-101 page I linked to. here it is again: http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101.html
Especialy read the points in part 3 ("conclusion") as I think it answers many of the points you are making.

It's currently 1:40pm in the land of the free and home of the brave.

I'm sorry, I don't know which question you mean. I had thought I had answered all your questions, but if I missed one

please point it out. Maybe you mean the Salthan one? (see below)

Sri said:"Just to be certain, did Jesus have the chance of getting married or the Israelite that were collaborating

with the dreaded Roman armies were too impatient of crucifying him then, being so annoying and always prohibiting

them the freedom of sex n wealth upon the miseries of others? Yes, just like Madoff."

Please don't use run-on sentences they are very hard to read. Basicly you're saying Jesus didn't have the chance

during his THIRTY THREE years of life to get married? I find this unlikely.

Barney Maddoff? Was this a "Jewish conspiricy" refrence? One, Jesus was a jew. Two, there is no global "Jewish

conspiricy" and three I suggest you look into what major foce in WWII also was pushing this propaganda before you go

supporting it. Hint: it rhymes with "bitler".

Sri Said: "In which verse in the New Testament or the Old Testament, did Jesus declared he was god or the son of God

and asked the Israelite to worship him? N which verse that state O mankind, O the people of the world, besides O

Israelite, or O my people which specifically refer to the Israelite."

"Jesus Answered 'I am the way the truth and the life, no one comes to the father except through me.'" -John 4:6
"You may destroy this temple, but I will rebuild it in three days."
"But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him: 'I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you

are the Christ, the sun of god.' 'Yes, it is as you say' Jesus replied." - Matthew 26:63-64a
Jesus was either: (1) A liar, (2) Crazy to the point of beleiving himself a poached egg or (3) Lord. There is no

other choice. (Paraphrase from C. S. Lewis, "Mere Christianity")

Sri Said: "You didn't answer my questions on the Salthans 2? What would U have them do? Being brutally attacked,

smeared with shits, their babies n children slaughtered just for target practise, on daily basis and everything was

sponsored by the mightiest democracy in the world, the bullets n bombs n the fancy terminator machines are all made

in the USA! What would U have them do? Ignored those who support your aggressors with money and bombs?"

Well, Saltha is a fictional world, I didn't answer because I thought it was retorical, and irelevant. They would

fight back if they were being directly attacked. This is beside the point, I'm not questioning whether one

should fight back, but whether the Infidels DID INDEED break a treaty and attack the Muslims, with proof that they

did so. Also, present proof that the command to slay was contained to that the one time and place (I see neither

mention of time nor place in any of the slaying verses).

Sri Said: "If being unmarried is so holy and get U closer to god, what the heck is all the white slaves of sex n porn

that booms like mushroom n all the millions of babies being aborted on yearly basis in your country man? Stop all the

hideous unmarried sex activities and be a loveable person of god like Jesus, like you have claimed."

I have made no such claim, You're putting words in my mouth. I never said marriage was bad. I mearly pointed out that

Jesus CANNOT be accused of polygamy or maritial abuse because he wasn't married. Mohammad was married, in fact

consumated with a 9 year old and he has commanded for men to beat wives. He also asked for someone to murder a poet

who critisized him. (Volume 4, Book 52, Number 270). If you follow such a man as a great example of all time then

something is wrong.

Sri said: "What the hell that drove the preachers n holy men of your church doing, preying on little boys under their

protection, only to be discovered years later when they file suit when they were men? Muhammad?"

Also, more Tu Quo Que. (Tu Quo Que means basicly "you too!" If you don't know what Tu Quo Que is, please look it up.

It's a logical fallacy.) Just because those who are or claim to be Christians do evil does not negate the evil done

by Islam, and Christians do so IN CONTERDICTION of the commands of thier god.

Maybe you havn't noticed, but America is becoming less and less Christian/religious over the last 30 years. Porn and

opbsession with sex has increased as church attendence/beleif in God is decreasing. Christians are the ones in fact

trying to get porn shops and strip clubs closed down. This is a common claim by Muslims and Islamists such as Osama

Bin ladin that the Christian America is spreading corruption, but this projects anti-Christian heathenism onto

Christianity and ignores the fact that America is moving steadily twords Aithism.

Sri Said: "Why the late apologies by the Pope, denouncing the accusation of centuries of popes before him, that the

Jews were not to be blame for the crucification of Christ and it was the Romans, when in fact, the Romans were the

one who spread Christianity to Europe by slaying the native tribes there that were not even Christians! Can U trust

the same Romans that slew the son of god and then preaching his ways almost a hundred years later on? Were they the

companions of Jesus, like the companions of Muhammad?"

There is NO biblical evidence to support anti-semetism that has been in the catholic church. Again, they did evil

DESPITE the commands of Jesus. Nowhere did Jesus commanded in ANY circumstance to kill other people. The same cannot

be said of MOhammad.

Sri: "What's your explanation of the extinction of the buffaloes and the hunters that hunted them. About millions of

them perished so that the white Christians could build USA only to kill each other over slavery of black Muslims,

that still baffles me why in the end, they chose to be Christians, the same faith of their oppressors and killers? As

same as the Malay Philipino, Jose Rizal was treated like a dog by his fellow Christians, the Spanish invaders, so did

the Christian Chinese, who after being degraded by opium traders of the Christian West, converted to the same faith

of their tormentors. Stockholm syndrome?"

REALLY? you're tu quo queing the killing of buffalo, compared to the evils Islam has done and is currently doing?!

Could you please cite a verse that says "slay ye the buffalo" in the bible? I already answered this and the rest of

this basicly the same as above, Re: Tu Quo Que.

"I give U a hint that would help U a lot in a debate or a discussion. Don't ask something that U wouldn't want the

other person U are talking 2, to ask U the exact same questions, not unless U have the right answers, of course."

I havn't asked any questions that I wouldn't want asked to me. So far, you havn't really presented any strong

arguments, nothing but Tu Quo Que.

Sri: "Answer them first, and I'm not going into Iraq and Afghanistan yet. How many Iraqi and Aghani terrorists or

military camps are there in the USA, 1, 2 or 3? Were they bombing the US civilians on daily basis?"
I have no idea how many bases there are. Could you cite proof that the US is "boming civilians on a daily basis" as

you seem to imply? Do you think America shouldn't go after Osama Bin Laden after he murdered thousands?

Sri: "Another question for U, Do U read the bible? if U do, is it on daily basis? 5 times a day like the Muslims, not

counting the voluntarily basis. If U do, in what language? Hebrew or is it a translated version and also according to

whom?"
I do read the bible, maybe once or twice a week, not as much as I'd like to. It's an english NIV. In fact, I have it

open right now.

I HIGHLY suggest you read the Islam-101 page I linked to. here it is again: http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101.html
Especialy read the points in part 3 ("conclusion") as I think it answers many of the points you are making.

It's currently 1:40pm in the land of the free and home of the brave.

It is not my habit to use bulky quotations or citations in a debate or any discussions. If U are willing, please go to

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Conquest_of_Mecca

They are resources familiar to all the Net users, millions of them! If I had use Islamic references, U would claim that they were one sided reports or manipulated by Muslims or some kind of Taqiyya.

So I give them to U to avoid from being bias. Complete with citations U asked 4. I would only use limited quotations from reliable and credible resources if the needs arise. Quotations from Al Quran and Al Hadith would be use to its full extent since it is a grave sin punishable with unimaginable suffering that God had promised to those who dare to meddle with his verses and the words of his prophets. This would suffice 4 now. If U still want me to explain it here, I would gladly do so, without any fear or hesitation. N U still didn't answer my questions. I would repost it again after this. Got something 2 do. Cheers.

Sri: If I'm not answering a question, it's not on purpose. I had thought I had answered everything in your last posts.

You also didn't answer some of my questions:

1.)Do you beleive there is a Jewish conspiracy?
2.)Could you cite references to official policies of harming civilians (including "bombing on a daily basis" as you claim), or cases where the US government officers are aware of such harm to civilians and do nothing?
3.)Do you think America has the right to capture/kill Osama Bin Laden for his part in 9/11 and the murder of thousands?

So, I did research and it does at least appear possible the Qurash broke the treaty first. One point of concern is the refusal to return the girl Um Cultum could be seen as a breach of the treaty by Mohammad. Could you present proof that the treaty was already broken by the Qurash before this point?

Even so, if the Qurash did break the treaty your next task is to prove that the context of the command to slay unbelievers does not extend beyond that place and time with citations.

Before I forgot,

1. No, Chomsky and significant numbers of Jews didn't believe in building a bloody, n cruel Jewish state by exterminating the Palestinians, so I must say no. But sadly, the Zionist is the propagator. U must be able to differentiate between them, not all Israelite are Jews. Not all Jews are Zionist, so I won't overgeneralise them.

2. No, there are no such official orders, if there are, it won't be just Al Qaeda that U guys have to worry about. It would be a global scale of Jihad. N I don't think that what we all would have wanted to happen. But it is constantly, being provoked by the Zionists and the Extremists that exist in every community and religion, N U know it. Remember Klu Klux Klan n the Oaklahoma bombers? But ten of thousands of innocent civilians perished, n are being caught in the line of fire sometimes intentionally in the name of collateral damage, the latest, the bombing of a tanker by NATO that fried more civilians than Talibans, so it's going to be hard to convince Muslims, that U are fighting the evil ones, by being so reckless of course.

3. Yes, by working together with other countries and do help others to capture the killers of Muslims, Hindus n whoever who were oppressed too, 2 show that U are not being double standard of course. All mass murderers of civilians must be put on trial, no matter who they are, even Muslims, if there are substantial evidences, because they have went against the ruling of Muhammad in the act of war. If U won't help, don't stop the law from taking its course by vetoing the resolutions of the majority in UN. Democracy, remember? To proof that U ain't no drug mule, sorry, servants to any country for that matter.

4. I need the sources on Umi Kalsom that U have mentioned since I don't have any. Thanks.

1.)"No, Chomsky and significant numbers of Jews didn't believe in building a bloody, n cruel Jewish state by exterminating the Palestinians, so I must say no."
This is false. Please visit http://www.terrorismawareness.org/what-really-happened/

2.)Hello Mr. Pot. I assume you've met Mr. Kettle?
So you're basically blaming Americans as a whole for what a few do? Isn't this the SAME as your claim that Muslims are blamed for what the minority do?
You're references to the KKK and Oklahoma city bombings is nonsensical. Neither have been lead by the government, and I'm not sure what you even mean by bringing them up.

3.)Do you beleive there is ample evidence that OBL was behind 9/11? You mentioned Mohammad and rules of war, but what if what OBL did was found to be within Mohammad's rules of wart?
I don't know how things went with the UN (I did a search and can't find anything) What if the OIC were to not cooperate, preventing a majority approval of a resolution to invade Afghanistan? Would the US be in their rights to go in anyway?

4.)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Hudaybiyyah#Controversy and source links from there

1.)"No, Chomsky and significant numbers of Jews didn't believe in building a bloody, n cruel Jewish state by exterminating the Palestinians, so I must say no."
This is false. Please visit http://www.terrorismawareness.org/what-really-happened/

2.)Hello Mr. Pot. I assume you've met Mr. Kettle?
So you're basically blaming Americans as a whole for what a few do? Isn't this the SAME as your claim that Muslims are blamed for what the minority do?
You're references to the KKK and Oklahoma city bombings is nonsensical. Neither have been lead by the government, and I'm not sure what you even mean by bringing them up.

3.)Do you beleive there is ample evidence that OBL was behind 9/11? You mentioned Mohammad and rules of war, but what if what OBL did was found to be within Mohammad's rules of wart?
I don't know how things went with the UN (I did a search and can't find anything) What if the OIC were to not cooperate, preventing a majority approval of a resolution to invade Afghanistan? Would the US be in their rights to go in anyway?

4.)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Hudaybiyyah#Controversy and source links from there

1. Chomsky said that it was a US-Israeli attack on the Gazan. U shouldn't write something without any cross references. U might lost something that you'll never be able to gain back ever again. Go here if U don't want to make the same mistake again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30X2tYUGK_8

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14404.htm

http://www.chomsky.info/debates.htm

There's more if U type David Letterman, Chomsky, the Independent Jewish Voices, Israel Refuseniks or self hating Jews, as what they labeled these true peaceful Jewish, but the truth is they only hate the crazy violent people that are shaming them and endangering the innocents.

Even the Amnesty urges Obama to suspend US military aids to Israel. The updates, about 30 billions for a ten year period. The Willy Pete that burnt the babies, children, women and the civilians were proudly made by the home of the brave and the land of the free Red Indians! U can check them out here,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/23/military-aid-israel-amnesty

I bet U would claim that Charles Manson was also a pagan, or some cults totally cut off from Christianity.
He said he was Jesus Christ! N the Bible and the Beatles inspired him. Should we make simplistic generalisation like what U did to the Muslims? If not, why? What made U so special?

U kept on defending the undefendable, go here,

http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa03.html

It's about the resolutions of humanity by everyone in the rest of the world that were vetoed by the biggest democracy in the world which also has the highest murder rates in the world!

U should really do your homework before writing or asking about anything in here.

Bush claimed god told him there's nuke in Iraq. Didn't find one. U guys went to war on mere lies. Do U think it's fair for those soldiers to die n kill for it?

I'll give U one more tip. Don't write or ask something based on mere assumptions and one sided or bias report. Think for yourself, check them out. You'll be a better person and would receive the respect of our readers. Thanks.

1. Chomsky said that it was a US-Israeli attack on the Gazan. U shouldn't write something without any cross references. U might lost something that you'll never be able to gain back ever again. Go here if U don't want to make the same mistake again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30X2tYUGK_8

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14404.htm

http://www.chomsky.info/debates.htm

There's more if U type David Letterman, Chomsky, the Independent Jewish Voices, Israel Refuseniks or self hating Jews, as what they labeled these true peaceful Jewish, but the truth is they only hate the crazy violent people that are shaming them and endangering the innocents.

Even the Amnesty urges Obama to suspend US military aids to Israel. The updates, about 30 billions for a ten year period. The Willy Pete that burnt the babies, children, women and the civilians were proudly made by the home of the brave and the land of the free Red Indians! U can check them out here,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/23/military-aid-israel-amnesty

I bet U would claim that Charles Manson was also a pagan, or some cults totally cut off from Christianity.
He said he was Jesus Christ! N the Bible and the Beatles inspired him. Should we make simplistic generalisation like what U did to the Muslims? If not, why? What made U so special?

U kept on defending the undefendable, go here,

http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa03.html

It's about the resolutions of humanity by everyone in the rest of the world that were vetoed by the biggest democracy in the world which also has the highest murder rates in the world!

U should really do your homework before writing or asking about anything in here.

Bush claimed god told him there's nuke in Iraq. Didn't find one. U guys went to war on mere lies. Do U think it's fair for those soldiers to die n kill for it?

I'll give U one more tip. Don't write or ask something based on mere assumptions and one sided or bias report. Think for yourself, check them out. You'll be a better person and would receive the respect of our readers. Thanks.

1. Chomsky said that it was a US-Israeli attack on the Gazan. U shouldn't write something without any cross references. U might lost something that you'll never be able to gain back ever again. Go here if U don't want to make the same mistake again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30X2tYUGK_8

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14404.htm

http://www.chomsky.info/debates.htm

There's more if U type David Letterman, Chomsky, the Independent Jewish Voices, Israel Refuseniks or self hating Jews, as what they labeled these true peaceful Jewish, but the truth is they only hate the crazy violent people that are shaming them and endangering the innocents.

Even the Amnesty urges Obama to suspend US military aids to Israel. The updates, about 30 billions for a ten year period. The Willy Pete that burnt the babies, children, women and the civilians were proudly made by the home of the brave and the land of the free Red Indians! U can check them out here,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/23/military-aid-israel-amnesty

I bet U would claim that Charles Manson was also a pagan, or some cults totally cut off from Christianity.
He said he was Jesus Christ! N the Bible and the Beatles inspired him. Should we make simplistic generalisation like what U did to the Muslims? If not, why? What made U so special?

U kept on defending the undefendable, go here,

http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa03.html

It's about the resolutions of humanity by everyone in the rest of the world that were vetoed by the biggest democracy in the world which also has the highest murder rates in the world!

U should really do your homework before writing or asking about anything in here.

Bush claimed god told him there's nuke in Iraq. Didn't find one. U guys went to war on mere lies. Do U think it's fair for those soldiers to die n kill for it?

I'll give U one more tip. Don't write or ask something based on mere assumptions and one sided or bias report. Think for yourself, check them out. You'll be a better person and would receive the respect of our readers. Thanks.

1. Chomsky said that it was a US-Israeli attack on the Gazan. U shouldn't write something without any cross references. U might lost something that you'll never be able to gain back ever again. Go here if U don't want to make the same mistake again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30X2tYUGK_8

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14404.htm

http://www.chomsky.info/debates.htm

There's more if U type David Letterman, Chomsky, the Independent Jewish Voices, Israel Refuseniks or self hating Jews, as what they labeled these true peaceful Jewish, but the truth is they only hate the crazy violent people that are shaming them and endangering the innocents.

Even the Amnesty urges Obama to suspend US military aids to Israel. The updates, about 30 billions for a ten year period. The Willy Pete that burnt the babies, children, women and the civilians were proudly made by the home of the brave and the land of the free Red Indians! U can check them out here,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/23/military-aid-israel-amnesty

I bet U would claim that Charles Manson was also a pagan, or some cults totally cut off from Christianity.
He said he was Jesus Christ! N the Bible and the Beatles inspired him. Should we make simplistic generalisation like what U did to the Muslims? If not, why? What made U so special?

U kept on defending the undefendable, go here,

http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa03.html

It's about the resolutions of humanity by everyone in the rest of the world that were vetoed by the biggest democracy in the world which also has the highest murder rates in the world!

U should really do your homework before writing or asking about anything in here.

Bush claimed god told him there's nuke in Iraq. Didn't find one. U guys went to war on mere lies. Do U think it's fair for those soldiers to die n kill for it?

I'll give U one more tip. Don't write or ask something based on mere assumptions and one sided or bias report. Think for yourself, check them out. You'll be a better person and would receive the respect of our readers. Thanks.

1. Chomsky said that it was a US-Israeli attack on the Gazan. U shouldn't write something without any cross references. U might lost something that you'll never be able to gain back ever again. Go here if U don't want to make the same mistake again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30X2tYUGK_8

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14404.htm

http://www.chomsky.info/debates.htm

There's more if U type David Letterman, Chomsky, the Independent Jewish Voices, Israel Refuseniks or self hating Jews, as what they labeled these true peaceful Jewish, but the truth is they only hate the crazy violent people that are shaming them and endangering the innocents.

Even the Amnesty urges Obama to suspend US military aids to Israel. The updates, about 30 billions for a ten year period. The Willy Pete that burnt the babies, children, women and the civilians were proudly made by the home of the brave and the land of the free Red Indians! U can check them out here,

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/23/military-aid-israel-amnesty

I bet U would claim that Charles Manson was also a pagan, or some cults totally cut off from Christianity.
He said he was Jesus Christ! N the Bible and the Beatles inspired him. Should we make simplistic generalisation like what U did to the Muslims? If not, why? What made U so special?

U kept on defending the undefendable, go here,

http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa03.html

It's about the resolutions of humanity by everyone in the rest of the world that were vetoed by the biggest democracy in the world which also has the highest murder rates in the world!

U should really do your homework before writing or asking about anything in here.

Bush claimed god told him there's nuke in Iraq. Didn't find one. U guys went to war on mere lies. Do U think it's fair for those soldiers to die n kill for it?

I'll give U one more tip. Don't write or ask something based on mere assumptions and one sided or bias report. Think for yourself, check them out. You'll be a better person and would receive the respect of our readers. Thanks.

Here are some more, well there are many actually, but these would suffice,

http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/publish/article_17.shtml

http://www.nkusa.org/

If the Jews themselves, well, half of them I think is not happy with what's going on with Israel and the dreaded Zionist, why should U, a Christian?

I'm not sure what "mistake" you are referring to.
This is the portion that I meant was false: "significant numbers of Jews didn't believe in building a bloody, n cruel Jewish state by exterminating the Palestinians"
There is no 'cruel Jewish state' that is 'exterminating the Palestinians' This is absolutely false. The Jewish is only defending themselves. You never refuted any of the points in the sideshow I linked to, and I don't see anything that really refutes this in the links you gave.

2.)Manson claimed to be Christ. He's CRAZY, not Christian, so yes. Last time I checked claiming to be Christian is COUNTER to the beliefs of Christianity.

I'm not "defending the indefensible", I'm only pointing out a logical inconsistency by you. You used the American army as a Tu Quo Que but then admitted there is no such specific order, thus it is the work of individuals. This is basic logic. I was pointing out that you claim I'm generalizing Muslims, and then you generalized the US army.

Nothing makes me "special" but those Muslim who do violence do so while quoting the Quran themselves, where as you can't actually find proof by your own admission between official American policy and their abuse of civilians if any. My case is based on what those Muslims SAY, yours is based on a LACK OF FACTS.

Again, what did the Oklahoma city bombing and KKK have to do with anything?

Alot of the news from the PA is doctored, there has been proof of the media from Gaza exaggerating the so-called "crisis". A lot of the noise from the UN comes from none other than the OIC who hardly have Israel's interest in mind. America is one of the few countries who is standing up for Isreal's right to defend herself from hostile neighbors who ATTACKED UNPROVOKED in two wars and a number of supported terrorist attacks since her founding. That the UN vetod condemnations by the UN means very little unless you can show that Isreal did something wrong.

"Bush claimed god told him there's nuke in Iraq. Didn't find one. U guys went to war on mere lies. Do U think it's fair for those soldiers to die n kill for it?"
While Sadam was a despot, I do disagree with the Iraq war. We should have focused on Afghanistan and OBL.
Whether or not Bush claimed God told him something doesn't mean he's right, and that it was accepted by the mainstream of Christianity. He didn't find a verse in the bible that says "There's nukes in Iraq".

"I'll give U one more tip. Don't write or ask something based on mere assumptions and one sided or bias report. Think for yourself, check them out. You'll be a better person and would receive the respect of our readers. Thanks."
I'm not writing anything on assumptions. Which assumptions do you think I'm making? I'm basing what I write on what MUSLIMS themselves SAY as they murder, stone, amputate and harass. So far, you really haven't proven that these Muslims are going against Islam, and you've only brought TU QUO QUE arguments.

I think perhaps you're the one operating under the assumption that Isreal is doing evil because that is what is taught in Islam. I encourage you to look at that sideshow I linked to again if you already have and consider.

I'm not sure what "mistake" you are referring to.
This is the portion that I meant was false: "significant numbers of Jews didn't believe in building a bloody, n cruel Jewish state by exterminating the Palestinians"
There is no 'cruel Jewish state' that is 'exterminating the Palestinians' This is absolutely false. The Jewish is only defending themselves. You never refuted any of the points in the sideshow I linked to, and I don't see anything that really refutes this in the links you gave.

2.)Manson claimed to be Christ. He's CRAZY, not Christian, so yes. Last time I checked claiming to be Christian is COUNTER to the beliefs of Christianity.

I'm not "defending the indefensible", I'm only pointing out a logical inconsistency by you. You used the American army as a Tu Quo Que but then admitted there is no such specific order, thus it is the work of individuals. This is basic logic. I was pointing out that you claim I'm generalizing Muslims, and then you generalized the US army.

Nothing makes me "special" but those Muslim who do violence do so while quoting the Quran themselves, where as you can't actually find proof by your own admission between official American policy and their abuse of civilians if any. My case is based on what those Muslims SAY, yours is based on a LACK OF FACTS.

Again, what did the Oklahoma city bombing and KKK have to do with anything?

Alot of the news from the PA is doctored, there has been proof of the media from Gaza exaggerating the so-called "crisis". A lot of the noise from the UN comes from none other than the OIC who hardly have Israel's interest in mind. America is one of the few countries who is standing up for Isreal's right to defend herself from hostile neighbors who ATTACKED UNPROVOKED in two wars and a number of supported terrorist attacks since her founding. That the UN vetod condemnations by the UN means very little unless you can show that Isreal did something wrong.

"Bush claimed god told him there's nuke in Iraq. Didn't find one. U guys went to war on mere lies. Do U think it's fair for those soldiers to die n kill for it?"
While Sadam was a despot, I do disagree with the Iraq war. We should have focused on Afghanistan and OBL.
Whether or not Bush claimed God told him something doesn't mean he's right, and that it was accepted by the mainstream of Christianity. He didn't find a verse in the bible that says "There's nukes in Iraq".

"I'll give U one more tip. Don't write or ask something based on mere assumptions and one sided or bias report. Think for yourself, check them out. You'll be a better person and would receive the respect of our readers. Thanks."
I'm not writing anything on assumptions. Which assumptions do you think I'm making? I'm basing what I write on what MUSLIMS themselves SAY as they murder, stone, amputate and harass. So far, you really haven't proven that these Muslims are going against Islam, and you've only brought TU QUO QUE arguments.

I think perhaps you're the one operating under the assumption that Isreal is doing evil because that is what is taught in Islam. I encourage you to look at that sideshow I linked to again if you already have and consider.

Thanks Foolster41, it seems that we have the same problem. It's getting harder n harder to post our comments. So take it easy, post it when there is less traffic I think.

Here is my response,

1. "There is no cruel Jewish state. The Zionist Jews are only defending themselves. Well, I don't think the British would agree with that. They were bombed at King David's hotel by the Zionist and unarmed British soldiers were clubbed to death to scare them off Palestine. I bet U didn't ever heard about Deir Yassin, did U? Well, it's the first bloodbath to scare the Arabs out of their homeland to make ways for immigrating Jews throughout the world. They did have a choice, before millions of Jews were exterminated by the Christian Germans. Yes, they are still Christians to this very day, no cults, just churches. U see, the Japanese government offer a part of Manchuria to be a Jewish state, but an influential Jewish American Rabbi, Rabbi Weiss declined the offer and hoped that Roosevelt would allow the Jews to migrate on a large scale to the US or the Great Britain to open up Palestine for them and caused the death of millions of innocent Jews in the hands of the crazy pagan Germans. Out of curiosity, they were pagans then, what are they now?

2. Well, it's going to be very easy for U ain't it. Whenever or wherever Christians killed and plundered, even though they've claimed god was on their side, U just simply declared, they were crazy! The Hutu and Tutsi were crazy, the Americans that nuke the non nuclear country, Japan, were crazy, the pogroms raiders were crazy, the blue and the grey, the Indians and the buffaloes exterminators were crazy, the soldiers of Christ that killed everyone, Jews and Muslims in the holy crusade were crazy, just about everyone that killed in the name of the cross, that even exterminated the Indian civilisation of South America! They were all crazy! But if they were Muslims? Islam is a violent religion and an anti christ that sought to destroy humanity along with the abortionists!

3. Pogroms were rampant in the crazy Christian world, never in Muslim lands before Zionist formed Israel. U see, the Oklahoma bombers weren't Muslims and the burning cross of the KKK has 'nothing to do' with the cross that significantly resemble the cross that killed the one who had betrayed Jesus and U guys thought God would let his 'son' tortured by mere humans to save all humanity from the original sins and damnation of hell! If you are a father would you let your son tortured to death and experienced an agonizing death right there in front of your face? What? Was 'the father god' that sick or wasn't that trinity concept void itself, since a part of god is being tortured by its mere weakling creation and he let it happen and Jesus forgot about it, that he was claimed to say when he was crucified, "O Lord, why have U forsaken me?" What? Did god forgot to tell him that he had to endure excruciating pain for the sake of would be killers, torturers and looters?

4. Every hideous atrocities by American GIs would not go up to their chain of command, not like the Japanese that would take responsibilities of the actions of their subordinates, Al Gharib, Gitmo was not an act of a government or the US army. They were done by individuals separated from the chain of commands! But Muslims were all related, miraculously intertwined with Al Qaeda and all the crazy Muslims, unlike crazy Christians of course. I've told U, if we were like Bush that got direct revelation from god through dreams like most Christians, it ain't just Al Qaeda that U guys got to worry about. I'm not like the Israel that spy on the US, so I won't know your secret like them. N I bet U don't know about the espionage either.

5. U said all the news or facts contrasting to your believe or point of views are irrelevant, that somehow all the world, except US and Israel, and a few Pacific Islands governments, somehow know better than them.Do check out the resolutions vetoed by the US before continuing our discussions to avoid unnecessary resentment. What made U so sure of yours? Were they all hypothetical proven error free? According to whom? Everyone? Or just the selected fews. What were the methods used? Random research or Interviews? Universal truth?

6. I don't think U read all the links that I've provided, so please read them especially by your own countrymen! The 29 pages I mentioned before is on Islam 101. I read them all, word by word, and the sideshow is fancy too, except it kept on contradicting itself without anyone having to do so.

7. U are brave enough to mock Muslims and the Koran. Be brave to express your comments on the violent verses of the Bible. Address them first, I have a long list of verses that I want U to clear them for me. Regarding with pigs, money, sex and the son of god among other things. I asked U again, which bible that U are reading, according to whom?

8. Oh, before I forgot, in the fancy sideshow claimed there were no Palestine in the first place, but only the mighty Muslim Ottoman empire. So give it back to them. N did U know about the battle at Ain Jalut between Goliath and David? Was it true? Who exactly that lead the Jews to Palestine from the dreaded Pharaoh? The US?

9. I won't be using that Tu Quo Que too much often if I were U, it might just find its way home someday.

10. Israel is not doing evil just according to U and itself with a few Pacific Island nations, but to the majority of the world, the Hindus, Christians, Buddhist, Communist, Atheists or whatever beside Muslims, likewise can see through their deceptions. What? Were all of us that stupid? Universal truth, remember?

11. Let's compare statistics shall we. Let's look up all the death tolls that were inflicted upon humanity by Muslims and Christians or Atheists alike. Let's do that n see where it goes from there.

1.They were perhaps Chrisitans, but could you cite chapter and verse that would show whast they did was in line with Christianity please? Did you know that the Jews were a majority for the last couple thousand years in Jeruselem? Do you beleive that the slideshow is wrong in that claim? If so, can you cite proof to the contrary.

2.The MAIN contention I've stated is, Christians who do evil do so IN SPITE of the teachings of their scriptures and the orginator of their faith, CHRIST. When you can show me PROOF that a verse from the bible was being followed in these instances, I'll beleive you. Constrast that, as I HAVE SAID with Muslims who cite many verses for the violence they do in the NAME OF ISLAM.

As for Japan, it absolutely had nothing to do with Christianity but war between two soverign nations. Please go read a history of WWII. Japan attacked the US and refused to surrender. Hundreds of thousands on both sides were being killed in the fight for the islands on the march to Tokyo. Perhaps we were wrong to use the bomb on Japan (I'd be willing to entertain the idea, but I think not), but I can definitely see the justificaiton for it.

3.See point #2. Unless you can show Christianity's inspriation for such things, it is foolish to attribute it to Christianity. Can you give book, chapter and verse that would justify what the KKK did in the bible? When and where were such verses used as justificaiton? The Oklahoma City Bomber wasn't christian, he was agnostic. This is a common misconception. See here: http://www.tektonics.org/guest/mcveigh.htm

4.I'm not sure what you mean by this. You admited that there was no official policy by the US goverment to harm civilians. Wouldn't you agree then that the US goverment shouldn't be generalized as being to blame? Muslims may not be connected to terrorist groups, but they receive their directions from the Quran which is full of commands to subjegate the world for Islam, and is followed by all FOUR schools of juriprudence.

5.That the US vetoed resolutions automaticly proove anything unless those Vetos were right. I'm asking you to proove that Isreal has indeed commited war crimes.

6.Oh, so you did watch it? What are these conterdictions? Please tell with proof.

7.That sounds like a threat. I know in Muslim countries I would face terrible things at the hands of your co-religionists. I have the right of freedom of speach here in AMERICA to critisze Islam. What verses in the bible? Do you mean the old testiment? if so, could you point out Jews or Christians who still follow these verses today?
As for what bible, I already answered that question. My bible is a New International Version. We have records dating back to the 1st century (and before I beleive) and have changed vbery little. In fact, we have more records of the bible than we do the writings of Homor's "Illiad"! http://www.allabouttruth.org/origin-of-the-bible.htm

8.If you can find the Ottomans, perhaps that'd be an option. Last time I check, they don't exist anymore. Yes, I do beleive the battle was true. They fought the PHILISTINES but they were neighbors, even if they are descendents of the Palastinians, not living in the land of Isreal. I beleive God lead Moses and Isrealites out of Egypt, don't you?

9.What Tu Quo Que are you refering to?

10.Please give citations of these non-muslim nations that condemn Isreal. Also, I'd like SPECIFICs on what Isreal is doing wrong.

11.Agreed, but one caveat: The deaths must be done with vidication from verses cited from their respective beliefs (in the case of Aithism, unbelief) as the reason for doing so.My perdiciton is that Aithism is the leader, with Islam next and Christianity 3rd.

Er. Misprint on point 2. Reads "Claiming to be Christ is counter to Christianity" should read "Claiming to be CHRIST is counter to Christianity." The former way made no sense. Sorry.

You didn't answer these questions:

Do you beleive there is ample evidence that OBL was behind 9/11?
You mentioned Mohammad and rules of war, but what if what OBL did was found to be within Mohammad's rules of war?
I don't know how things went with the UN (I did a search and can't find anything) What if the OIC were to not cooperate, preventing a majority approval of a resolution to invade Afghanistan?
Would the US be in their rights to go in anyway?

Why can't Gazans get hospital and necessary resources from neighboring Arab countries? If not, why not?
What about the Egypt wall?
Why do you think "Palestinians" didn't care when Gaza belonged to Egypt and the west bank to Jordan, but now they demand freedom?
Do you acknowledge that the war against Israel by its Arab neighbors was unprovoked ? (If so, then Israel has a right to land taken in a defensive war by the rules of war)

Bah. I think I need some coffee. Misprint on the misprint on point 2. I meant "Claiming to be Christian is counter to Christianity" should read "Claiming to be CHRIST is counter to Christianity." The former way made no sense. Sorry.

Never mind Foolster41, relax, take it easy. The search of the truth is not as easy as anyone thinks it is. It is a hard long winding road and accidents can happen. The frustration felt after all that concentration, searching, reading here and there, only to find out that our postings didn't make it through. I need to do some cross reference on the resources I have. To avoid being bias, of course. Give me some time ok.

The raining season has started I think and the cold is getting to me. Got two deadlines that I have to adhere to. How's life at your hometown? Where do U come from actually? Is it snowing there? I've found your blog. Why did U stop blogging? Cheers. 9:50 PM in the lands of the Malay. The frogs are singing their mating songs. What a lullaby.

"How's life at your hometown? Where do U come from actually?"
I'm not crazy enough to give my hometown to a stranger on the internet, much less where someone may slit my throat for speaking out against Islam. (It's happened! See: Theo Van Gogh) I'll just say that I live in the pacific northwest (You seemed to already have looked, so you'd probably found it anyway).
"Is it snowing there?"
It doesn't really snow out here except for a little in the middle of winter (december/january) nothing like Chicago where I come from, where there's snow from late October to march!

"I've found your blog. Why did U stop blogging?"
I assume you mean my blog spot blog? Honestly I can't remember why. Probably was my general trouble with sticking to projects (I'm trying to get better at it). I've been thinking I'd like to pick up blogging again, though my internet connection has been giving me a lot of trouble lately.

Later.

2:13pm at the home of free

Foolster41, I'm sorry to have kept u waiting, another 2 weeks I'll be completely free. A lot had happened since our last conversations. The killings have not stopped. I'm afraid, we would all be pushed to a corner without much options in our hands.

Since U are so interested in Palestine, I would begin our discussion on it. Do U think that all Palestinians are Muslims? N have U ever heard about the church of Nativity? Do U Christians have what the Muslims have? I mean the brotherhood of the Muslims. When others were unjustly killed, we would felt their pain, no matter who or where they are.

U are so obsessed with verses of the bible. I ask U this. Is going against the ten commandments still being considered to be a grave sin by Christians? If not why?

Are U saying that Christians are no longer Christians since they no longer believe or even practise what's in the bible? Is it really the same bible given to Jesus Christ?

U see, translation is a very tricky thing. U have to have the original script so that others can cross check that your translated version of anything is not that skewed or the real intended meaning was not wrongly interpreted in the context of the time frame and the occasions behind them.

I have given all the verses of the Koran that U claimed all Muslims are using to justify the killings of Non Muslims. U failed to acknowledge that all the Muslims in all Muslim Nations left all the dhimmis or Non Muslims without a scratch?

Some Christians in my land even took it to court about using the name of Allah as a reference to god. By the way, what is the name of your god or gods? Can U briefly explained the trinity concept to me?

Abraham was ordered to sacrifice Ismail by Allah to test his faith. When he felt the blood oozing on his hands, to his surprise it was not his son but a Kibas or a goat like creature placed instead in his place as a sign God had known what was in his heart. Since Abraham didn't sacrifice his son, Why would god? Is he more heartless than Prophet Ibrahim?

U kept on saying that jihad is a threat to the western world. In reality, no Muslims troops are invading or fighting on Christian lands. Can't say the same for U guys.

Bush had led U guys to a bloody war with mere lies. What do U have to say about it?

U see, whether or not the Christians did or do anything that they were or are doing, actions speak louder than words.

But U guys without hesitations, would use any act of violence involving individual Muslims as a representative of all Muslims, almost 1.5 billion of them. Does it make any sense?

Why did U turn down my offer of comparing head counts or collateral damages caused by wars fought by Christians, Muslims or anyone at all. What are U afraid of? Another taqiyya?

I have read a version of the bible, the Barnabas. Have U ever heard about it?

Don't ask me about intel questions. I've told U. We are not like Israel that kept on spying on U guys. We don't have to. We are not afraid that one day U would discover the truth. Do U know why they did it any way? I mean, spying their own god father?
Or U are completely oblivious about it?

Sri said: "Do U think that all Palestinians are Muslims? N have U ever heard about the church of Nativity? Do U Christians have what the Muslims have?"
I'm guessing most are, No, and no.

Sri said: "U are so obsessed with verses of the bible. I ask U this. Is going against the ten commandments still being considered to be a grave sin by Christians? If not why?"

I'm not "obsessed" with verses of the bible. I do beleive the bible is true. However, if you're going to make a Christian/Muslim equivlence statemnt you need to back it up with facts (cases where these groups cited bilbical verses to do evil, as what Muslims are doing in thousands of cases since 9/11). Probibly not as much any more, with the seeping in of secularist humanism, even in Christianity.

Sri said: "Are U saying that Christians are no longer Christians since they no longer believe or even practise what's in the bible? Is it really the same bible given to Jesus Christ?"
Yes. If you don't follow the words of the religion, then you're hardly following the beleif. I know because we have far more copies than we have of what Socrates wrote and there is little argument about the authenticity of Socrates!

Sri Said: "U see, translation is a very tricky thing. U have to have the original script so that others can cross check that your translated version of anything is not that skewed or the real intended meaning was not wrongly interpreted in the context of the time frame and the occasions behind them."
This is an old and refuted argument. See above.

Sri said: "Some Christians in my land even took it to court about using the name of Allah as a reference to god. By the way, what is the name of your god or gods? Can U briefly explained the trinity concept to me?"
God calls him self YHWH or "I am that I am" generaly in the old testiment. I had thought Allah was simply the generic word for "god". It is three persons or aspects of the same God in one. Just as an apple would have the skin, flesh and seeds. I'm afraid I don't know how to explain it beyond that.

Sri said: "Abraham was ordered to sacrifice Ismail by Allah to test his faith. When he felt the blood oozing on his hands, to his surprise it was not his son but a Kibas or a goat like creature placed instead in his place as a sign God had known what was in his heart. Since Abraham didn't sacrifice his son, Why would god? Is he more heartless than Prophet Ibrahim?"
God didn't want to sacrafice his son, but the alternative that all men would have to suffer for their own sin because of free will was worse. He willing sacraficed himself so we would have a chance to live.

Sri said: "Bush had led U guys to a bloody war with mere lies. What do U have to say about it?"

And yet, what verses did he cite to do so? Your conflating one man (who frankly, I disagree with heavily on his policies) as being all of Christianity, or all of Amercia. Like I said, you're generalizing actions by SOME americans as if it's official policy of America when it's not. There were many who disagreed with Bush. (Both of his elections were hardly a landslide).

Sri said: "But U guys without hesitations, would use any act of violence involving individual Muslims as a representative of all Muslims, almost 1.5 billion of them. Does it make any sense?"
Only because they QUOTE every time from their scripture as justification of those acts.

Sri said: "I have read a version of the bible, the Barnabas. Have U ever heard about it?"
Yes, that there are doubts about the authenticty of it's writing.

Sri said: "Why did U turn down my offer of comparing head counts or collateral damages caused by wars fought by Christians, Muslims or anyone at all. What are U afraid of? Another taqiyya?"

Please read more carefully. Also taquiyya is a Muslim concept, not a Christian one.

I said: "11.Agreed, but one caveat: The deaths must be done with vindication from verses cited from their respective beliefs (in the case of Aithism, unbelief) as the reason for doing so. My perdiciton is that Aithism is the leader, with Islam next and Christianity 3rd."

I noticed you didn't point out the contradictions in the slideshow as I requested, speaking of challenges unmet.

Sri said: "Don't ask me about intel questions. I've told U. We are not like Israel that kept on spying on U guys. We don't have to. We are not afraid that one day U would discover the truth. Do U know why they did it any way? I mean, spying their own god father?
Or U are completely oblivious about it? "
I asked for specific proof of Isreal committing war crimes.

Thanks Foolster41, I'm satisfied with your answers. Thanks 4 addressing them. I'm glad U are still here. I'll address your questions after this. How's the job hunting going on? Any luck? I'm reaching the end of my work. The holidays are coming. Right now I have to focus on several things left undone. Thanks again. You are helping me a lot in understanding Christianity and the Americans, not from a second party but directly from the source. U are the only Christian I've ever met in the Internet that is willing to answer my questions. U have my respect. Catch U later man.

(Oops I thought I had already posted this)

I'm glad to answer questions as best I can. You are definitely more polite than most other Muslims that post here.

I think the ideals of liberty that America and the west in general is greatly misunderstood by the eastern world (specifically Islamic countries) and that is a cause of a lot of the strife, where it is made to be something evil when it is not, it is liberty.

I'm entering a job placement program with trials that will lead to eventual placement. I have a meeting late this month, though it looks like the trials won't even begin until January of next year because everything's getting busy or shutting down for the holidays.

Have faith Foolster41, things will work themselves out. It always does. Ok, let's get back 2 our discussion shall we.

1. Israel had committed war crimes since according to the Geneva Convention, no unarmed civilians should be the target of a military conflict just like the arguments in here for the terrorists. Helpless civilians should not be targeted nor killed in order to flush out or destroy the enemy or to scare them out of war. Soldiers being soldiers, should get down to their business of being killed n kill with their boots on. That is the way of the brave. The way of a true warrior.

2. The British lied to the Arabs about Palestine. They didn't got the guts to fight head on with the Ottomon so they cooked up a divide n conquer strategy. The Arabs were deceived to revolt against the Ottomans with the taqiyya by the British and they had abandoned the sacred brotherhood of the Muslims, which is sacred to all Muslims - lives, honour and belongings which considered as forever forbidden among Muslims, thus the problems created by their own fault seems never go away.

3. The USA should be ashamed of its role in supplying the bombs that were used to bomb the Palestinian civilians, both Muslims and Christians. Only in this conflict miraculously, Christians and Muslims fight and die side by side against a common enemy.

I'm limiting my response so it would not be confusing to our readers. Good luck bro, I mean 4 your job hunt. Sorry 4 the delay, it's either my Internet security or my anti spyware that kept me out of this site for days. Thanks.

1.Again, you are leaving out the important fact that HAMAS is using the civilans as human shields. How can Isreal defend herself if the HAMAS soldiers are hiding behind civilians? Do you think Israel should just "take it" and allow her civilians to be hurt and terrorized in order to save civilians in another country? If so, why are Gazan civilians more important to save than Israeli ones? Israel is fighting with honor, HAMAS is not.

2.Could you cite sources of this? As far as I know the history, the land was promised to both Arabs and Jews, with Arabs getting most (I beleive over 80%) of the land. When Israel was founded in 1967 the Arab neighbors attacked Israel (without any provocation from Israel, it was simply for existing) and were summery defeated, forcing them to (as in the rules of war when an aggressor attacks and loses) anax land.

3.They are supplying bombs to help defend Israel, their Ally. "Palastine" isn't some group of helpless civilians. They voted in a government body that has the aim of COMPLETELY DESTROYING ISRAEL and have been working to that aim since 1967.

Thanks Foolster41,

1. Well, having killed the British civilians and Arab civilians (all unarmed of course) to form Israel, they should know better that they are jumping into the meat grinder. Let say someone blew up your wives and children at King David's hotel and massacre everyone at an Arab village named Deir Yassin and everyone was terrified of the terror and flee, would you give up all hope of ever claiming your house back one day?

2. Israel won its conflict due to only one thing. The neverending supply of fresh armaments almost for free I think whereas the Arabs had to buy their weapon and the intel by Americans. They even made the USS Liberty expandable, but I bet U didn't know about it either.

3. Is there any official pact between Israel and America, let say like NATO? Or it is just a natural behaviour of American politician being heavily sponsored by certain jewish eh aa, lobby?

4. Israel was built on blood. How could it expect anyone to leave it in peace? Would U let go of your home if you were forced out by terror. Would you be grudge free?

5. With your kind permission.

Menachem Begin sic who planned the destruction of the King David Hotel and the massacre of Deir Yassin (See picture at top of this page, flanked by pictures of the bombed King David Hotel). Ex prime minister, Shamir, was originally a member of the Jewish "terrorist" gang called Irgun, which was headed by none other than Menachem Begin. Shamir later moved over to the even more radical "Stern Gang," which committed many vicious atrocities.

Shamir himself has defended the various assassinations committed by the Irgun and Stern gangs on the grounds that "it was the only way we could operate, because we were so small. So it was more efficient and more moral to go for selected targets." The selected moral targets in those early days of the founding of the state of Israel included bombing of the King David Hotel and the massacre of Deir Yassin.

April 9, 1948: A combined force of Irgun and Stern Gangs committed a brutal massacre of 260 Arab residents of the village of Deir Yassin. Most of whom were women and children. The Israeli hordes even attacked the dead to satisfy their bestial tendencies. In April, 1954, during Holy Week, and on the eve of Easter, The Christian cemeteries in Haifa were invaded, crosses broken down and trampled under the feet of these miscreants, and the tombs desecrated. The Israeli military conquest, therefore was made against a defenseless people, who had been softened up by such earlier massacres as Deir Yasin {250 Arabs; men, women and children were massacred there}.

The Jew, Weizman, referred to the massacre as this "miraculous simplification of our task" and Ben Gurion said "without Deir Yasin there would be no Israel." Americans are not told that 10% of the Arabs killed by the Israeli's in 1948 were Christian and that 10% of the Arab property confiscated belonged to Christians. Nor are they told the fact that Israel's massacres and military actions forced 100,000 Christians to become refugees.

Accounts by Red Cross and United Nations observers who visited the scene, said that the houses were first set on fire and the occupants were shot down as they came out to escape the flames. One pregnant woman had her baby cut out of her stomach with a knife. Reminiscent of the acts committed by their brother Jews in Russia during and after the Bolshevik {Jewish} take over. The head of the International Red Cross delegation in Palestine, Jacques de Reynier, drove into the village and was met by a detachment of Irgun terrorists. In his report of the massacre the previous night, he wrote: "All of them were young, some even adolescents, men and women armed to the teeth: revolvers, machine-guns, hand-grenades, and knives, most of them still blood-stained. A beautiful young girl with criminal eyes showed me hers {knife} still dripping with blood, she displayed it like a trophy."

May 1948: The U.S. appointed Count Folke Bernadotte of Sweden to mediate between the Arabs and the Israelis. In his first progress report (of Sept. 16, 1948) he recommended that the U.N. should affirm "the right of the Arab refugees to return to their homes in Jewish controlled territory at the earliest possible date." The Israelis responded in their own quiet way. The following day Bernadotte was murdered in Jerusalem.

The spectacular assassination which caused an International outcry was claimed, the, by an unknown "Fatherland Front," but that was a cover for Shamir's Stern Gang. Yoshua Zeitler and Meshlam Markover of Stern told Israeli Television earlier this year {1989} that, they respectively directed and led the operation that killed the Swedish diplomat and his French aid-de-camp. Zeitler, 71, said he decided to speak now because of fear that the U.N. and the "goyim" {non-Jews} are again trying to force Israel into concessions.

February 1949: Israel launched an offensive across the Armistice lines with Egypt which brought its forces to the Gulf of Aqaba, occupying the Palestinian police post of Umm Rashrash which they afterwards named Eilat.

1950: Israelis seized the Al-Uja de-militarized zone on the Egyptian side and Baqqara on the Syrian side, expelling their Arab inhabitants and razed their homes to the ground by bulldozers.

1950-1955: Israeli forces unleashed more than 40 acts of armed aggressions against Arab states, almost all causing a heavy loss of life. This included attacks and massacres in Qibya, Huleh 1953, Nahalin, Kfar Qassem in 1954, Gaza and a Syrian outpost on Lake Tiberias in 1955.

October 14-15, 1953 -- Under the command of Ariel Sharon, Israeli squads attacked the unarmed Arab village of Qibya in the demilitarized one. Where they blew up 42 houses and killed more than sixty residents who were trapped inside. The details were so gruesome that the U.S. joined in a U.N. condemnation of the Israeli action, and for the first and only time, suspended aid to Israel in reprisal.

July 1954: Israeli intelligence planted "a ring of spies (Moles)" in Cairo, its task was to begin sabotage operations against selected Egyptian, British and American targets...On July 14, the Alexandria post office was fire-bombed and the U.S. Information Agency offices in Cairo and Alexandria were damaged by fire started by phosphorous incendiary devices, as was a British-owned theater.

Members of the spy ring were caught, and they confessed. They had been planted by Modin, the Israeli military intelligence organization. The purpose, presumably, was to sabotage Egyptian relations with the U.S. and Britain. Various commissions of inquiry into the affair conducted in Israel were never able to decide whether or not Israeli Defense Minister Pinchon Lavon authorized the operation.
(http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/kd.html)

With your kind permission,

Foolster41,
Responses to the attack

The British House of Commons responded:

* "On July 22 1946, one of the most dastardly and cowardly crimes in recorded history took place. We refer to the blowing up of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. Ninety-two persons lost their lives in that stealthy attack, 45 were injured, among whom there were many high officials, junior officers and office personnel, both men and women. The King David Hotel was used as an office housing the Secretariat of the Palestine Government and British Army Headquarters. The attack was made on 22 July at about 12 o'clock noon when offices are usually in full swing. The attackers, disguised as milkmen, carried the explosives in milk containers, placed them in the basement of the Hotel and ran away.

The Chief Secretary for the Government of Palestine, Sir John Shaw, declared in a broadcast:

* "As head of the Secretariat, the majority of the dead and wounded were my own staff, many of whom I have known personally for eleven years. They are more than official colleagues. British, Arabs, Jews, Greeks, Armenians; senior officers, police, my orderly, my chauffeur, messengers, guards, men and women - young and old - they were my friends."

The Jewish leadership publicly condemned these attacks. The Jewish agency expressed "their feelings of horror at the base and unparalleled act perpetrated today by a gang of criminals". In fact, the Irgun were acting in response to direct instructions from the United Resistance, as described in the letter from Moshe Sneh cited above.

The Irgun issued an initial statement accepting responsibility for the attack, blaming the British for the deaths due to failure to respond to the warning, and mourning the Jewish victims. A year later, on July 22 1947, they issued a new statement saying that they were acting on instructions from "a letter from the headquarters of the United Resistance, demanding that we carry out an attack on the center of government at the King David Hotel as soon as possible".

The British army commander in Palestine, General Sir Evelyn Barker, in an order written only a few minutes after the bombing, commanded that Jewish property be "out of bounds for all British officers and soldiers". He stated that: "The aim of these orders are to punish the Jews in a way the race dislikes as much as any, namely by striking at their pockets." The order was rescinded two weeks later after much outrage at its anti-semitic nature.
(http://www.knowledgerush.com/kr/encyclopedia/King_David_Hotel_bombing/)

1. In June 5-10, 1967, the Jedi strike back. Sorry, the Arabs strike back. Your call.

1. "Well, having killed the British civilians and Arab civilians (all unarmed of course) to form Israel, they should know better that they are jumping into the meat grinder." shows a clear bias you have, as if the Arabs in the area were perfect and good and the Jews were terrible terrorists.

2.This statement makes it sound like you're treating this like this is a conflict between two countries with grievances against each other when it is not. Israel is DEFENDING herself, and has been defending herself since 1948 from ARAB aggressors and terrorists in the area. it is one-sided because the US is supporting the RIGHT(but I won't claim it to be perfect) side.
I've heard of the USS Liberty, and it apeears to be a genuine mistake. It is a conspiracy theory that racists like to use. http://www.adl.org/israel/uss.asp

3. Pacts like that are for relations between MULTIPLE goverments. There is no need for such pacts between two nations, except for a truce at an end of a war (like WWII). Again, you make it sound like Isreal is given a unfair advantage in a war between two nations, but Isreal is the one defending against a terrorist agressor.

4. "Israel was built on blood." Another example of what I said of 1.

Foolster41:
I think the ideals of liberty that America and the west in general is greatly misunderstood by the eastern world (specifically Islamic countries) and that is a cause of a lot of the strife, where it is made to be something evil when it is not, it is liberty.

srizals@gmail.com
I begin with a citation from U, Foolster41.

Liberty? Anyone who has a problem with the liberty of the West say I. Anyone?

Well, it ain't your liberty to do anything that U want is any problem of us. Like a Malay saying, 'Don't bother at the side of someone's else sarong' or Jangan jaga tepi kain orang. Do inform me guys if I got it completely wrong.

It's your liberty to kill and destroy us and spread fitnah or disorder throughout Muslim's world that is our major concern. It's your liberty to attack the religion of God and your desire that it is wiped off from the face of the earth. Your lust for blood, ours and the earth, being black of course that really concerns us. Well, what do U expect? It's our survival and we ain't greatly outnumbered like Jesus Christ's companions nor we are helpless and we are definitely not cowards! Why? Well, cowards are forbidden to enter Paradise. Some say it only applies to husbands that let his wife went astray but I don't think we should limit to just that.

I wonder what would U felt if any Muslim Nations helped the Red Indians in fighting the invading Whites that spread like a virus throughout the Matrix. Discontent?

Pardon me of asking, why did the US invaded the Malays of the Philippines anyway? Being so further from the homeland of the brave? To drive out the Spanish Inquisition? Or to join in the feast? I mean the feast of the innocents and the weak.

Oh, we were under harsh occupations too. We survived the Portuguese, the Dutch, the British, the Chinese and the Japs. Many were killed, tortured and raped. The wound has not exactly healed. No, we are not Christians or Shinto Buddhist! We were and still are Muslims. I told U. We survived. Alhamdulillah. How could we have the same faith of our killers, looters and rapists? We were immune to Stockholm Syndrome and still are. Alhamdulillah or All praise to God in English, of course.

Foolster41, A Citation
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/reader_feedback/public/display.php?source_name=mbase&source_id=2009316427

icedclimber
sandiego, CA
485 comments
June 10, 2009 at 3:54 AM

This brings me to two thoughts. First off, the Seattle times needs to get the facts straight. This was not an accident. This was proven to be a false flag operation. The United States Asked Israel to attack the ship. Their only mistake was their inablity of sinking it. There wasnt supposed to be any survivors.

That comes up to my second thought. Whatever made someone thought that Israel could ever defend themselves without Americas help in the first place? My god they shot up one of our boats for almost an hour and still failed to stop it. What a pathetic joke from one the worlds most powerful superpowers? LOL.

For those that care to call me a kook. Please do. Ive come to accept the fact that most Americans want to live in Denial about most anything. For those that care, google for it. You will find hundreds of links. ITs clearly public knowledge as to what really happened.

Foolster41, one more citation with your due respect,
http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/reader_feedback/public/display.php?source_name=mbase&source_id=2009316427

R N Carter
Seattle, WA
359 comments
June 10, 2009 at 1:38 AM

Israel is a nation among other nations and must be judged according to that. I so judged and condemned them regarding Liberty attack then, since and now. I condemn them now regarding their illegal settlements in territory under their occupation. So has the UN, though unfortunately and unfairly not with action resolutions.

As to anti-semitic? Arabs are semites, many Jews are not.

Foolster41,

A. Prophet Musa led the children of Israel across the red sea to Palestine. N then they worshipped a golden calf when Musa was not around with them, Aaron was. Two Prophets of God with them n yet they chose to create their god.

B. Did U know why in the first place they were scattered all over the world then? Was it God's will or their will?

Foolster41:
2.Could you cite sources of this? As far as I know the history, the land was promised to both Arabs and Jews, with Arabs getting most (I beleive over 80%) of the land. When Israel was founded in 1967 the Arab neighbors attacked Israel (without any provocation from Israel, it was simply for existing) and were summery defeated, forcing them to (as in the rules of war when an aggressor attacks and loses) anax land.

srizals:
Citation your asked 4.

Citation from Non Muslim sources.

Efforts by the Young Turk regime that seized power in 1908 to repress Arab nationalism intensified opposition to the government and increased demands for separation from the empire. The arrest for treason in 1914 of Major Aziz Ali al-Masri, an Ottoman staff officer of Arab origin, brought opposition to the regime among Arab officers to a head.

Among the ardent nationalists was the sharif of Mecca, Husayn ibn Ali, a Hashimite descendant of the prophet Muhammad, and his four sons, Ali, Abdullah, Faisal, and Zayd. Because the authorities suspected their loyalty, they were forced to live in Constantinople (now Istanbul) from 1893 until 1908. After they returned to Mecca, Husayn began to rally surrounding tribes against attempts to conscript Arabs into the Ottoman armed forces. Although the Turkish governor-general of Mecca backed down from the conscription order, Husayn sought an alliance with an outside power against further Ottoman attempts to undermine his authority.

In February 1914, Husayn sent one of his sons to negotiate with the British agent and consul general in Cairo, Lord Kitchener, but Great Britain was not yet ready to support an Arab uprising against the Ottomans. With Turkey's entry into World War I on the side of Germany (October 1914), the British authorities reconsidered the sharif's offer to revolt in return for guarantees of Arab independence after defeating the Turks.

Ottoman efforts to rally support among Muslims throughout Asia for a jihad against the Allies failed to win over many Arab subjects. Rather, most Arab notables were sympathetic to the growing demands for independence, and many looked to Husayn for leadership. As relations between the Arab provinces and Constantinople continued to deteriorate due to poor economic conditions, mass arrests of suspected Arab nationalists, and resentment of conscription, Husayn attempted to reestablish contact with the British.

In 1915 he reopened negotiations through Lord Kitchener's successor in Cairo, Sir Henry McMahon. In an exchange of ten letters known as the Husayn - McMahon Correspondence, the sharif offered assistance to Great Britain against the Turks in return for a British promise to recognize the independence of what was to become Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Iraq, and most of the Arabian Peninsula, and to endorse proclamation of an Islamic Arab caliphate. The British, however, refused to accept so precise a definition of the area for Arab independence because of conflicting promises and obligations regarding the territory. McMahon eventually replied that Britain would recognize the territory demanded by the sharif except for certain areas "not purely Arab." The imprecision of British promises was the cause of postwar quarrels between Great Britain and Arab nationalists, particularly with regard to Palestine.
http://www.answers.com/topic/arab-revolt-1

srizals:
Citation from my brothers

The political aspirations of the Arabs were not to be realized, however, due to the conflicting promises made by the British to their wartime allies. The first of these came during 1915 in an exchange of ten letters between Sir Henry McMahon, Britain’s high commissioner in Egypt, and Sharif Hussein. Essentially, Britain pledged, in what became known as the Hussein-McMahon Correspondence, to support Arab independence if Hussein’s forces revolted against the Turks.

But the agreement excluded three areas: the wilayets (Ottoman provinces) of Basra and Baghdad, the Turkish districts of Alexandretta and Mersin, and, most importantly, “portions of Syria lying to the west of the districts of Damascus, Homs, Hama, and Aleppo.” The interpretation of the last section was to be the source of great controversy. The British later claimed that Palestine was meant to be excluded from the area of Arab rule, as it is technically located west of Damascus: for obvious reasons the Zionists took the same position. The Arabs interpreted the letter as it reads: Lebanon, not Palestine, is to the west of Damascus and the other areas mentioned.

In any case, the interests of the colonial powers took precedence over promises made to the Arabs. While accepting the principle of Arab independence laid down in the Hussein-McMahon Correspondence, the Sykes-Picot Agreement, signed by Britain, France and Russia in 1916, divided the area into zones of permanent colonial influence. The agreement recognized French interests in Greater Syria and northern Iraq, while acknowledging British designs on a belt of influence from the Mediterranean to the Gulf to protect its trade and communications links with the Indian subcontinent. The Sykes-Picot Agreement specified that most of Palestine was to be entrusted to an international administration. The agreement clearly contradicted the promises made to Sharif Hussein of Mecca.

To further complicate matters, in a totally deceitful move British Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour in 1917 issued a letter to a prominent British Jew, Lord Rothschild, promising Britain’s commitment and support for a Jewish home in Palestine. Known as the Balfour Declaration, the letter calls for the "establishment in Palestine of a National Home for the Jewish people . . . it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine...”
http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/his_arabrevolt.html

Hope my friends at faithfreedom.org aren't here. I have to use these citations ok girls.

Sri:
On Freedom: Whoah there and setting down! I never said those things were good, or in way tried to justify those things. America's freedom and mistakes have nothing to do with each other, and you're only further proving the point of what I mean when I say freedom is misunderstood. There are Mulsims who post here who show preference to Sharia law to western law, citing the problems of pornography and drunkedness. While I do disagree with these things, here the we have liberty and freedom and while you're free to express your views by way of vote, you can't impose your morales on everyone else. Contrast that with the countries run by your co-religionists in Saudia Arabia, Iraq, Somolia, Ghana, Afganastan, Pakastan, Iran, Etc where even your religion is controlled, and they say America is evil because it allows people to do things they don't like (i.e. can't control). That is what I mean about the misunderstanding of freedom.

"I condemn them now regarding their illegal settlements in territory under their occupation."
It's not illegal occupation. They are occupying land that was WON when they were ATTACKED UNPROVOKED and took when they beat them back as strategic land to prevent a FURTHER attack. Just like how Germany had to give up land when they lost WWII. The UN is hardly impartial when you have a number of Muslim countries all voting against Isreal it's easy to make it look like a international condemnation when it is not.

I never said you were anti-semetic. I said you were biased against Isreal.

A. Your point?
B. They were scatted (but not "then" but thousands of years later after a series of invasions) because of punishment for them turning against God. It was their will, but God being outside time knew it would happen. Again, your point?

(By the way "Jap" is not short of Japanese but a racist slur. Many people don't realize this and use it not knowing any better.)

So the just is Britain didn't make it absolutely clear they wanted to give a tiny bit of the lands to the Jews who were being prosecuted in other countries to the near point of extinction? This seems rather petty, and I don't see how your citations exactly contradicts my summery of the history that you quoted.

"Hope my friends at faithfreedom.org aren't here. I have to use these citations ok girls."
Why don't you want your friends at faithfreedom to see this?

Israel War Crimes
Foolster41:
"That the US vetoed condemnations by the UN means very little unless you can show that Isreal did something wrong".

i. The citations U asked 4:

"Belligerent occupation is governed by The Hague Regulations of 1907, as well as by the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, and the customary laws of belligerent occupation. Security Council Resolution 1322 (2000), paragraph 3 continued: "Calls upon Israel, the occupying Power, to abide scrupulously by its legal obligations and its responsibilities under the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in a Time of War of 12 August 1949;..." Again, the Security Council vote was 14 to 0, becoming obligatory international law.

The Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the West Bank, to the Gaza Strip, and to the entire City of Jerusalem, in order to protect the Palestinians living there. The Palestinian People living in this Palestinian Land are "protected persons" within the meaning of the Fourth Geneva Convention. All of their rights are sacred under international law.

There are 149 substantive articles of the Fourth Geneva Convention that protect the rights of every one of these Palestinians living in occupied Palestine. The Israeli Government is currently violating, and has since 1967 been violating, almost each and every one of these sacred rights of the Palestinian People recognized by the Fourth Geneva Convention. Indeed, violations of the Fourth Geneva Convention are war crimes. (Francis A. Boyle)

Another source:
"A further petition has been launched by eight Israeli human rights groups, demanding that Israel’s Supreme Court ban the army from targeting ambulances and medical personnel.

The petition cites a large number of cases in which Israel has fired on ambulances, arguing that as a result medics have been unable to treat the wounded or transport them to hospital.

Palestinian medics said 21 of their staff have been killed by Israeli fire and many more wounded, according to reports on Al Jazeera TV. The Al Durra hospital in Gaza City was hit on Tuesday, and a day later three mobile clinics run by a Danish charity, DanChurchAid, were destroyed.

The International Committee of the Red Cross dropped its usual diplomatic language this week in denouncing Israel’s refusal to allow medical teams to tend the wounded.

During a three-hour pause in the fighting on Wednesday rescuers managed to reach the Zaytoun neighbourhood, south-east of Gaza City, that was extensively bombed at the start of the week.

Four children were found close to starvation alongside 15 bodies, including those of their mothers. Many other civilians were found dead in the area, and others are believed still to be in hiding. Israeli tanks were stationed nearby the destroyed buildings during the whole period.

Pierre Wettach, a Red Cross spokesman, called Israel’s delay in allowing a medical evacuation “shocking” and “unacceptable”. He added: “The Israeli military must have been aware of the situation but did not assist the wounded.”

Physicians for Human Rights in Israel added its voice, criticising the Israeli authorities for repeatedly ignoring requests to move seriously wounded civilians".

"According to figures cited by the World Health Organisation, at least 40 per cent have been children. Another 3,000 Gazans have been wounded.

Israeli commanders were reported in the Israeli media to be unsurprised by the heavy toll on civilians of their latest actions, saying their priority was to protect soldiers".
(Reported by Jonathan Cook)

Foolster41:
"1.Again, you are leaving out the important fact that HAMAS is using the civilans as human shields. How can Isreal defend herself if the HAMAS soldiers are hiding behind civilians?"

ii. The citations U asked 4:

"Photographs of pale blue artillery shells lined up by tanks stationed on the edge of Gaza have been identified as American-made phosphorus munitions. Neil Gibson, a missiles expert for Jane’s, told the London Times that the shells were an “improved model” that burned for up to 10 minutes.

Although such shells are allowed when used solely as a smoke screen, they are banned as a chemical weapon if used as an anti-personnel munition. Palestinian and international medics in Gaza have reported large numbers of burns victims with injuries difficult to treat.

Yesterday, Amnesty International also accused Israeli soldiers of using Palestinian civilians as human shields – a charge Israel has repeatedly levelled against Hamas.

Malcolm Smart, a spokesman, said: “Israeli soldiers have entered and taken up positions in a number of Palestinian homes, forcing families to stay in a ground-floor room while they use the rest of their house as a military base and sniper position.” (Reported by Jonathan Cook)

5:30 a.m. in the blessed lands of the Malay. The crowing of my proud young Gallus gallus politely slicing the silent of the night, ops sorry, morning. A few minutes or so 4 my pre dawn prayer. We can't pray during the rising of the sun. Why? To distant ourselves from the Sun worshippers of course.

Foolster41,
Point B: They are not supposed to go back until Prophet Jesus Christ a.s. walk this earth again and led an uprising against the Anti Christ and his supporters, the taghuts or those who went astray and lead others astray. The final battle between the good and the bad. Prophet Musa a.s. had delivered them to the promise land n yet they betrayed themselves by breaking their covenant with God by making a god with their bare hands!

Point A: Prophet Musa led the children of Israel across the red sea to Palestine. N then they worshipped a golden calf when Musa was not around with them, Aaron was. Two Prophets of God with them n yet they chose to create their god.

Explanation.
They are rebellious transgressors that rebel against God! Just to show how proud they are n why they are behaving in the way that they are behaving. They are simply too proud. They think God needs them. They think they are above the human race. Do U know their definition of the human race? We, (Zionist) Jews, the rest goyyim! Do U even know what is the meaning of goyyim actually? Oh, I forgot, Jews that are not with us (the Zionist Jews) are self hating Jews!

C. Why didn't the ancient Israelites defended Prophet Jesus Christ a.s. back then like what the Arabs did with Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.? Don't they have the reason to die for?

D. Who actually tortured him (Jesus according to Christianity) to death? Why did he screamed in agony "O Lord why have U forsaken me?"

E. I hate discussing and debating using/with citations and sideshows. They would laughed at me if they knew I had to use bulky citations to proof my points. I'm trying to trim them according to our discussions. U see, I prefer engaging thoughts, the logic and the worldviews of the human brains. How people perceived things and why did they have those perceptions in the first place. I used these citations out of respect of our kind readers and also U.

What did transpire the existence of the Red Cross? Do U care to check out? U see, humanity is a very interesting phenomenon. No matter who U are, its parallel views and commons shared is totally amazing. Not unless U are some kind of a machine or a terminator or something.

Sri said: "...reports on Al Jazeera TV..."
Stop right there. Al Jazeera is absolutely biased, and therefore a completely inappropriate source. They are run by HAMAS, and they are the channel that is shoveling anti-semetic garbage at children. (see http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/01/hamas-israel-is-interrupting-our-jew-hating-broadcasts.html).

Also, accusations are not the same as facts. You didn't cite articles that PROVED these shells were used beyond as smoke screen. (That people were burned does not mean Israel was using the P.S. for anything beyond smoke screen.)

You didn't really answer my question: "If Hamas is using civilians as human shields, how should Israel effectively defend her citizens?"

At any rate, we're going off on a rabbit trail here. if Israel did commit war crimes, they should answer for it, of course. But Israel should also have the right to exist and defend herself.
This is being seriously undermined by the UN, at the behest of the Muslim countries.
To summarize:
*The wall is NOT a war crime, since it protects against suicide bombers.
* Israel should have the RIGHT to deal with HAMAS and the terrorists there who shoot rockets from behind CIVILIANS. Civilian casualties are a sad thing, but any nation having to make the choice between their citizens and other citizens where there is no other choice should ALWAYS be able to choose theirs.
*Israel occupying Golan heights and other lands they acquired during WARS FOUGHT AGAINST THEM THAT ENEMIES STARTED should still be in the hands of Israel. To call this a "war crime" borders on racist demand that Israel cease to exist (though many do not see it this way). Why should Israel give back the land and trust they won't try to attack them again, especially when they continue to say they want to? That would be like Germans demanding Berlin back in the 70's, after WWII.

Sri Said: "They are rebellious transgressors that rebel against God! Just to show how proud they are n why they are behaving in the way that they are behaving. They are simply too proud. They think God needs them. They think they are above the human race. Do U know their definition of the human race? We, (Zionist) Jews, the rest goyyim! Do U even know what is the meaning of goyyim actually? Oh, I forgot, Jews that are not with us (the Zionist Jews) are self hating Jews!"

You're making a rather racist sweeping generalization about all Jews saying "this is how they were and how they are now!"
What is your point? You seem to be indicating the Jews deserved to be attack, vilified and hated by Muslims. You seem to be implying that Jews don't deserve the land.

Sri said: "E.I hate discussing and debating using/with citations and sideshows. They would laughed at me if they knew I had to use bulky citations to proof my points."
Well then I think you're going to have a hard time having an intelligent discussion about anything. Generally people cite FACTS when they make assertions. This is basic logic. Otherwise, how do they know the other person isn't making things up?

About Jonathan Cook.

Since September 2001, he has been a freelance writer based in Nazareth, Israel, publishing articles in The International Herald Tribune, Le Monde Diplomatique, and Al-Ahram Weekly, among others. According to his website, he founded the Nazareth Press Agency in February 2004, and is the first foreign correspondent to be based in Nazareth, which he writes gives him a perspective unavailable to Western journalists based in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv in Israel, or Ramallah in the West Bank.

In the New Statesman, Neil Berry describes Cook as a writer of forensic rigour, a "maverick" journalist who has chosen to immerse himself in the culture that he writes about. Berry writes that Cook, "exemplifies to an extreme degree the belief that when it comes to the Middle East, westerners of conscience are bound to be engaged with the Palestine/Israel conflict above all else. He regards Israel's treatment of the Palestinians as a monstrous injustice that must be resolved if stability is ever to be brought to the Middle East."

In Blood and Religion (2006), Cook argues that Israel's recent treatment of its Palestinian citizens, also known as Arab citizens of Israel, has exposed a contradiction between the state's Jewish and democratic values. The book focuses on Israel's response to a campaign for "a state of all its citizens" begun in the late 1990s. Israel's leadership said this demand showed the Israeli Arabs were a fifth column, and were conspiring with Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Authority to overthrow the Jewish state, according to Cook. Cook also writes that demographic pressures on the Jewish state posed by the higher birth rate of Palestinians in the Occupied Territories and in Israel led the Israeli government to consider drastic policy changes, including the Gaza disengagement and building the West Bank barrier.

In 2008, Cook had two books published, Israel and the Clash of Civilizations: Iraq, Iran and the plan to remake the Middle East, and Disappearing Palestine: Israel's Experiments in Human Despair. The second book is in two parts. The first half contains Cook's thesis, according to a review in Electronic Intifada, that the goal of Israeli policy is to make Palestine and the Palestinians disappear for good.

Cook was born and raised in Buckinghamshire, England. His website indicates that he received a BA Honours in Philosophy and Politics from Southampton University in 1987, a postgraduate diploma in journalism from Cardiff University in 1989, and a Masters degree in Middle Eastern studies from the School of Oriental and African Studies in 2000.

Francis Anthony Boyle (born 1950) is a professor of international law at the University of Illinois College of Law. Boyle received a J.D. degree magna cum laude and A.M. and Ph.D. degrees in political science from Harvard University. He also practiced tax and international tax with Bingham, Dana & Gould.

Professor Boyle serves as counsel to Bosnia and Herzegovina and to the Provisional Government of the State of Palestine. He also represents two associations of citizens within Bosnia and has been instrumental in developing the indictment against Slobodan Milosevic for committing genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Professor Boyle is Attorney of Record for the Chechen Republic of Ichkeria, conducting its legal affairs on a worldwide basis.

Over his career, he has represented national and international bodies including the Blackfoot Nation (Canada), the Nation of Hawaii, and the Lakota Nation, as well as numerous individual death penalty and human rights cases.

He has advised numerous international bodies in the areas of human rights, war crimes and genocide, nuclear policy, and bio-warfare. From 1991-92, Professor Boyle served as Legal Advisor to the Palestinian Delegation to the Middle East Peace Negotiations. He also has served on the Board of Directors of Amnesty International, as well as a consultant to the American Friends Services Committee, and on the Advisory Board for the Council for Responsible Genetics. He drafted the U.S. domestic implementing legislation for the Biological Weapons Convention, known as the Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989, that was approved unanimously by both Houses of the U.S. Congress and signed into law by President George H.W. Bush.

Boyle believes that the United States is illegally occupying the state of Hawaii and has encouraged Native Hawaiians to press for independence and urged them to unilaterally proclaim their own state on the model of the Palestinians.

As member of the board of Amnesty International USA at the end of the 1980s/early 1990s, He claimed that Amnesty International USA acted in ways closely related to United States and United Kingdom foreign policy interests. He stated that Amnesty, along with other human rights organisations in the US, failed to sufficiently criticise the Sabra and Shatila Massacre in Lebanon.

Boyle stated his suspicion that the International Secretariat of Amnesty International, based geographically in London, UK, was also subject to this bias. He attributes the alleged links between Amnesty International and US and UK foreign policy interests to the relatively large financial contribution of Amnesty International USA to AI's international budget, which he estimated at 20%.

Boyle also stated that Amnesty international was instrumental in publicizing the "Iraqi soldiers dumping children from incubators in Kuwait" hoax.

Boyle also claimed that aspects of organisational continuity and survival came ahead of human rights aims in Amnesty International. He stated "Amnesty International is primarily motivated not by human rights but by publicity. Second comes money. Third comes getting more members. Fourth, internal turf battles. And then finally, human rights, genuine human rights concerns."

He has urged Iran to sue the United States in the International Court of Justice in The Hague in order to discourage a military attack on Iran's nuclear facilities and prevent the imposition of new sanctions by the U.N. Security Council.

Boyle has accused Israel of Nuremberg offenses and said that he is ready to "represent Iran in an international tribunal for trying the Zionist regime on charges of genocide of Palestinians", which he accuses the US to support.

srizals:
Are U saying that the Palestinians had the right to die a miserable death and be driven out of their homes while the Jews, most are converts worldwide had the right to kill, sorry, live a luxurious life, sponsored of course and never be driven back to the sea where they belong.

U see, what Hamas meant was the immigrants as they did came by the sea on ships, returned to where they came from in the means of transport that brought them to Palestine in the first place.

By the way, what were they running from anyway? Muslims or Christians? Ever heard of Pogroms?

I'm starting to see a pattern here. I mean the way of the thinking of certain group of people in the West with the terrorists. "They are all liars n killers. All of them deserved to be exterminated. Along with helpless women n children and unarmed men".

I can't be anti Semitic. See, I'm married to one. Well, half of her of course. Can U answer this question Foolster41. Do U think the Arabs are Semite too? If they R_Not, then why?

Your posts about Cook and Boyle are hardly specific about what Israel did, and is just more accusations without cited facts.

"U see, what Hamas meant was the immigrants as they did came by the sea on ships, returned to where they came from in the means of transport that brought them to Palestine in the first place." Yeeeaaah, I'm so sure that's what they meant. That's why they broadcast filth about killing Jews on their children shows. Sorry, but I find this incredibly hard to beleive and I think speaks ill of either your neiveity or morals by trying to make this argument. Apologizing for a terrorist organization hardly makes you look moderate.

Sri said: "I'm starting to see a pattern here. I mean the way of the thinking of certain group of people in the West with the terrorists. "They are all liars n killers. All of them deserved to be exterminated. Along with helpless women n children and unarmed men.""
Do you mean to say MY way of thinking? This is just baseless mudslinging.

I never made any sort of sweeping statements about Arabs. It was YOU who did the same about Jews however.

I have nothing against Arabs, but it is the ARAB MUSLIMS who have initiated war against the Jews, not the other way around. Everything would be fine if the Muslims left Israel alone and lived in the land that was cut out for them by the UN deceleration. Arabs and Jews could live side by side in peace, EXCEPT that the ARAB nations keep attacking Israel because of the vilification of the Jews by mohammad himself in the Quran.

We're going back to who owns the land. The Jews have as much right to that land as any one else. You havn't really proven otherwise, but keep trying to make that same claim in different ways. They are not from "over seas" as you claim, but there were many Jews living in that area for the last 2000 years, as well as Jews who immigrated from other European countries that were persecuting the Jews.

These are questions I've asked in some form before that you've never answered:
1.)Do you beleive Israel as a state should exist on the land they were given by the UN decleration?
2.)Do you beleive that when a country is attacked unprovoked and the defending country wins they should gain land from the attacker?
3.)If a country is preparing to go to war by putting forces on a countries border, do you think it is proper for the defending country to strike first, knowing an attack is eminent?
4.)Why do you beleive that Gollen heights and other lands should be returned? Is it because the ceasing was wrong in the first place, or you think the nations it was ceased from have learned their leason and won't attack again?
5.)If HAMAS insists on attacking from behind civlians, how should Israel respond? (This is a question I can never get a straight answer from ANY muslim)
5.)Given Isreal's choice of Isreal's citizens and Gazan citizens, do you think it's proper that Isreal is forced to favor the other citizens over their own through UN sanctions?

Ok, I'm sorry. Could U give the citations or the method or format of citing that U want me to use. Could U give some examples based on what U are accusing the Muslims and the questions your are posing 2 me.

I don't think we can ever agree on certain issues. But it is not the case. Can we at least make a common stand here, U n I.
So that others would at least think be4 they went back to their business of killing and maiming the innocents and the weak. Those who couldn't fight them and inflict the same miseries of their tormentors of helpers of their tormentors.

a. No Non combatants should be targeted for what so ever reason one might have. If any party especially governments felt they can't keep up they dying, stop! Fight it out on the tables of negotiation or at least hated each other without blood needed to be spilt.

b. Every man, woman and child should be treated with respect and the dignity that they deserved for being a beautiful creative intellectual and emotional being.

c. Soldiers should not be afraid of getting killed as they are not that scare of doing the killing.

d. Generals, sorry, politicians or anyone that desire powerr that is brave enough to stir hatred or allegations whatsoever must be willing to die for their cause before asking us to die for their cause. U see, in the wars of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w., casualties were not that high since the leaders of each team would fight one on one witnessed by everyone and they were not using WMD. Most of the time, only the head of the snakes were severed leaving most part of the body unscratched.

e. Under no circumstances, rape, torture and killing of women, unarmed men, children be condone. Only children, women and men with arms of destruction are allowed to be killed, yes, just like what the Predators of outer space are looking for on this earth. The perfect game for their trophies of their bravery.

f. Under no circumstances, civilians or heavily populated areas be ever considered as legitimate military target like Pearl Harbour.

What do U think? I'll address your questions in the manner that U wanted after U have demonstrated it to me. Thanks. What did U do for Thanks Giving?

2:37 P.M. in the lands of the Malay. Blood is being spilled here in commemoration of the sacrifice made by Prophet Ibrahim a.s. and his son, Prophet Ismail a.s. who is also the grandfather of the Arabs. No not human sacrifice. Our pet cow which is also considered as a holy animal by the Hindus. We only eat animals that are considered as sacred or pure. It gotta do with keeping the heart clean or lowered blood cholesterol or something. Thanks.

It's not formatting, but WHERE you are getting your sources from, and the quality of the information in those sources. You cited stories about people accusing Israel of committing war crimes, but with no specifics of what those crimes are. Also you cited sources such as Al Jazrea with is run by a terrorist organization and therefore hardly credible.

Sri said: "Could U give some examples based on what U are accusing the Muslims and the questions your are posing 2 me."

I think Mr. Spencer does a better job of this than me. Please check out the "blogging the Quran" series on this site (using the search bar on the right on the front page) or look at how the sources are cited in Islam 101, also on this site. He directly links to Quran verses and hadiths, and not only that but these are the same interpretations of these verses used as justification by Muslims to do evil and subjugate non-believers, and covers anything I would bring up.

Sri said: "a. No Non combatants should be targeted for what so ever reason one might have. If any party especially governments felt they can't keep up they dying, stop! Fight it out on the tables of negotiation or at least hated each other without blood needed to be split."
I agree with all your points, but was this mean to be an answer to my question #5-6? If so, this is a poor answer, because it assumes Israel and HAMAS as moral equals when they are not. HAMAS does not want to negotiate, and continues to kill Israeli civilians and hiding behind their own.

Thanksgiving was nice, we had some family over, ate a lot of good food and hung out.

Foolster41, Another side of the story from a Zionist.

Untold or Justified Massacre

Ari Shavit Haaretz, Magazine Section, 9 January 2004:

According to your findings, how many acts of Israeli massacre were perpetrated in 1948?

"Twenty-four. In some cases four or five people were executed, in others the numbers were 70, 80, 100. There was also a great deal of arbitrary killing. Two old men are spotted walking in a field - they are shot. A woman is found in an abandoned village - she is shot. There are cases such as the village of Dawayima [in the Hebron region], in which a column entered the village with all guns blazing and killed anything that moved".

"The worst cases were Saliha (70-80 killed), Deir Yassin (100-110), Lod (250), Dawayima (hundreds) and perhaps Abu Shusha (70). There is no unequivocal proof of a large-scale massacre at Tantura, but war crimes were perpetrated there. At Jaffa there was a massacre about which nothing had been known until now. The same at Arab al Muwassi, in the north. About half of the acts of massacre were part of Operation Hiram [in the north, in October 1948]: at Safsaf, Saliha, Jish, Eilaboun, Arab al Muwasi, Deir al Asad, Majdal Krum, Sasa. In Operation Hiram there was a unusually high concentration of executions of people against a wall or next to a well in an orderly fashion".

"That can't be chance. It's a pattern. Apparently, various officers who took part in the operation understood that the expulsion order they received permitted them to do these deeds in order to encourage the population to take to the roads. The fact is that no one was punished for these acts of murder. Ben-Gurion silenced the matter. He covered up for the officers who did the massacres."
(Benny Morris, http://www.deiryassin.org/bennymorris.html

Jewish State without any other races.

"That was the situation. That is what Zionism faced. A Jewish state would not have come into being without the uprooting of 700,000 Palestinians. Therefore it was necessary to uproot them. There was no choice but to expel that population. It was necessary to cleanse the hinterland and cleanse the border areas and cleanse the main roads. It was necessary to cleanse the villages from which our convoys and our settlements were fired on."
(Benny Morris, http://www.deiryassin.org/bennymorris.html

Whether it is true or not Palestinians wanted to drown all the Jews.

"He wants to send us back to Europe, to the sea we came from. He truly sees us as a Crusader state and he thinks about the Crusader precedent and wishes us a Crusader end.
(Benny Morris, http://www.deiryassin.org/bennymorris.html

His justification of all the slaughter.

"You have to put things in proportion. These are small war crimes. All told, if we take all the massacres and all the executions of 1948, we come to about 800 who were killed. In comparison to the massacres that were perpetrated in Bosnia, that's peanuts. In comparison to the massacres the Russians perpetrated against the Germans at Stalingrad, that's chicken feed. When you take into account that there was a bloody civil war here and that we lost an entire 1 percent of the population, you find that we behaved very well."
(Benny Morris, http://www.deiryassin.org/bennymorris.html

Foolster41,
About rebelling against God. An alternative view from the Jews that are labelled as Self Hating Jews or Israel Threatening, SHIT in short form by the kind and intellectual Zionist Jews.

"Neturei Karta objected to Zionist aims of founding a state before the coming of the Messiah. To bolster their opposition, they cite tractate Ketuboth, verse 111 of the Talmud, which is interpreted as forbidding strife with gentiles in order to form a Jewish state, on the grounds that the destruction of the temple is a punishment from God, which would be rescinded by God".

"They further rely on an apocryphal legend, according to which God, the Jewish People, and the gentile nations of the world made a pact when the Jews were sent into exile".

"Under the pact, Jews would not rebel against the non-Jewish world that gave them sanctuary and Jews would not immigrate as a group to the Land of Israel. In return, the gentile nations promised not to persecute the Jews too harshly. Neglecting the history of persecution of the Jews, which many say voided this pact, Neturei Karta argue that by rebelling against the pact, Jews were rebelling against God".

by Ami Isseroff and Zionism and Israel Information Center.
The Encyclopedia and Dictionary of Zionism and Israel.

"About rebelling against God."
Again, what is your point? What does this have to do with anything? So what if the Jews want their own state where their nation once stood?

Foolster41,

They were and are not allowed to return after their banishment by God. Not according to me. It's according to their own faith. I thought you knew that as a Christian.

They have to wait for the Messiah, which is not Prophet Isa a.s. since they claimed he is not a prophet. Muslims do. Christians go beyond that. But that is life. Differences. A truth to someone is a hoax to others. A hoax of the century could be the ultimate truth by some. It's just the way things are here in this life we called a neverending funfairs, ops sorry, a test.

Could you clarify for me about Judea Christianity or Christian Zionists. Have U heard of them?

Sri:
"They were and are not allowed to return after their banishment by God. Not according to me. It's according to their own faith. I thought you knew that as a Christian."
No its not. There is nothing in the old testement that says they cannot return. In fact, I beleive there is a prophecy in Daniel that says they will have an established nation so just the opposite. Also Revelation I talks about a Jewish state that in the end times will be attacked, so again just the opposite.

Sri said: "...hoax of the century could be the ultimate truth by some. It's just the way things are here in this life we called a neverending funfairs..."
I of course disagree with this statement.

"Judea Christianity or Christian Zionists."
I do not know what either of these terms mean.

Foolster41's questions and srizals' answers.

1.) Do you believe Israel as a state should exist on the land they were given by the UN declaration?

Yes, according to the first original resolution, before Deir Yassin. But it should be like other distinguished honourable nations. It must be pluralistic and respect the rights of the Palestinians which means, it has to put on trial all war criminals, not just the generals, Palestinians or Israelis, compensate losses to each of its victims, every single one of them, of mankind and nations. If U said Israel has the right to be exclusively Jewish owned, U are going to put every minorities of every country in jeopardy, don’t U think so?

2.) Do you believe that when a country is attacked unprovoked and the defending country wins they should gain land from the attacker?

No, war should be criminalised. UN should intervene and peacekeepers deployed and cases argued at The Hague. No land hijacking. If U found things, and the original or truthful owner asked for its return, what would U do? Would U stay being married with another man's wife? Or would it nullify the second marriage upon knowledge of the first marriage.

3.) If a country is preparing to go to war by putting forces on a countries border, do you think it is proper for the defending country to strike first, knowing an attack is eminent?

No. If enough Intel is gathered, ask the UN to intervene and go to The Hague. Never before all means of negotiations are exhausted. Are U referring to the IDF? Have U heard of the movement of criminalising war?

4.) Why do you believe that Golan Heights and other lands should be returned? Is it because the ceasing was wrong in the first place, or you think the nations it was ceased from have learned their lesson and won't attack again?

Well, it didn’t belong to them in the first place. Check out Germany. Did the mighty allied still held on to its soil? If not, why should Israel continue to do the same? Is it Zionist Jewish holy rights? Above all international laws and humanity?

5.) If HAMAS insists on attacking from behind civilians, how should Israel respond? (This is a question I can never get a straight answer from ANY Muslim)

They lived in a prison similar to Nazi Death Camps, surrounded by huge towering towers, landmines, snipers positions with Miniguns, Merkavas, Apache tank killers, super hornets and WMD that is sponsored by the generous USA. The civilians won’t flee, since they had learnt their lessons of fleeing after Deir Yassin. So they are going to die in their homeland and won’t go to other Arab Nations, in fear they won’t be permitted to go back n Israel would repeat history of confiscating lands for being victors of genocide, sorry, ‘unprovoked’ wars.

5.) Given Israel's choice of Israel's citizens and Gazan citizens, do you think it's proper that Israel is forced to favour the other citizens over their own through UN sanctions?

They should nuke the Gazan, the West bank, the Church of Nativity and all Palestinians, Muslims and Christians, all the Arabs and be a pariah state of the United Nation and pray hard that the rest 1.4 billion Muslims left worldwide will let bygones be bygones and won't become nuclear powers themselves. U see, the UN back then that handed Palestine to Israel wasn’t like the United Nation now. Back then, the UN was the powerful victors of World War 2. Now, it is truly a United Nation, consists of hundreds of nations worldwide. The only shame about it is the veto power over democracy, a legacy of WW2.

Where’s my answer? You didn’t quote citations for your points and I have to. Do U think that we are on an equal footing of presenting our points?

WW1, not WW2, sorry.

World War 1, not WW2. Sorry 4 the mistake. Did U know that out of World War 1 outcome, The Turks rose and proved victor against those who had defeated it earlier. So they are still here. Give back Palestine to them. Along with the rest of its empire, won just like Israel did.

#1: Of course, as long as the trial is carried out by a disinterested third party (I.E. No OIC nations should be voting, though may present evidence) and they can present proof of war crimes.

"If U said Israel has the right to be exclusively Jewish owned, U are going to put every minorities of every country in jeopardy, don’t U think so?"

This seems a hypocritical point. When non-muslims and Jews have equal rights in Muslim countries and can openly practice their religion in Mecca and elsewhere in Dar-Islam this question can be taken seriously. The Arabs have a LOT of land, all the Jews want is a small piece of land for themselves after years of persecution, why is it so hard for muslims to allow them even this?

#2: I'm sorry but you have a twisted idea of "justice" and history. Should a country (or group of countries) not be punished for attacking another nation? What should be done to the attacking countries to stop the attack? Just outlawing war isn't a solution at all, because that doesn't stop the aggressors, only those agressed against from defending themselves.
Do you mean to say Allies should not have occupied Germany after WWII?
Your questions about property is irrelevant this isn't about finding things on the street, this is RESTITUTION. If a man assaults me, I can sue him and get paid for the damage he did, plus he is expected to pay with jail time. This is also true with nations. The only reasons of those nations for attacking Israel was its existence. Also, what if the UN refuses to help?

#3: Again, what if the UN refuses to help, or is slow to help (because it does take time for UN to call a vote) and an attack is eminent?

Sri said: "Have U heard of the movement of criminalising war?" Not specifically, though I have heard a few times people talking about "stopping war" in a vague sense, and also the argument is akin to Anarchy. Personally I think both systems fail, and is silly. There is no way you're going to simply simply shame someone who wants to commit a crime or a nation who wants to take over another country into stopping. There MUST be consequences as an incentive to stop a crime, that is why we have laws that rule both people and nations. Of course, It's a nice thought that wars stop, but it is a noble idea without any teeth.

#4: "Well, it didn’t belong to them in the first place. Check out Germany. Did the mighty allied still held on to its soil?" They had every right to seize the land out of self-defense, just as the allies did in Germany (See #2). They occupied until they were sure Germany would not repeat WWII again. There is hardly such a feeling from HAMAS who still sends out genocidal propaganda.

#5: You didn't really answer the question and still just give propaganda. Also "fear they won’t be permitted to go back n Israel would repeat history of confiscating lands for being victors of genocide, sorry, ‘unprovoked’ wars." contradicts your previous statements. Either Israel has a right to exist and defend her self, or she does not. The only reason Israel was attacked when the state was formed was because of its very existence.

#6: "They should nuke the Gazan," Are you being serious, or is this a joke? I'd like a serious answer. How do you think Israel should protect her citizens from HAMAS rockets when killing those firing the rockets means also killing the civilians they are hiding behind?

"Where’s my answer? You didn’t quote citations for your points and I have to. Do U think that we are on an equal footing of presenting our points?"
Answer to what? I don't see a single citation in your previous post, so I think this is a tad hypocritical. Mostly my point before was that you shouldn't use obviously biased/terrorist sources. Do you mean in my post before, about the banishment of Jews from Israel? Here they are:
Isaiah 11:11-12; Ezekiel 20:33-38; 22:17-22; Zephaniah 2:1-2 ; Daniel 9:27 (Jewish control of Jerusalem); Revelation 20:7-10 ("The city that God loves" = Jerusalem);
I don't think I can give you citations for the other two things I responded to since it is the very difference between Islam and Christianity, and that is a much larger debate.

srizals:
a. The verses, can U give them in full, in case I have a HAMAS sources by mistake. What about your sources? Are they not that bias?

Foolster41:
"Of course, It's a nice thought that wars stop, but it is a noble idea without any teeth".

b. Well, that is your part man. Tell your government to stop exporting terminators all over the globe. With great power comes a great responsibility. U can support Israel all this while, to the extend of exhausting your resources without any clear pact or any laws, with billions of dollars for no obvious reason, except to create havoc according to the world views, but U can't spend a buck or two to implement world peace. Why? Should we rely on the terrorists then? I mean, for justice? US would gain the respect that it had lost. Remember Hiroshima? Even then, no one questioned your bloody conduct. You were heroes man.

c. Stop the weapon manufacturers. When the selling stop. So is the killing too. Not animals. Humans! The buying won't stop. They are all blood thirsty. What's your excuses of selling the arms? Some sick addiction like the Romans with their gladiators and Colosseum?

d. U guys cleverly sanctioned Iraq till it end up with tanks and jets that resemble scrap metals before U guys were brave enough to invade them. Do U think Iran is that stupid to repeat the same mistake? North Korea knows your trick. That is why the treatment is not the same.

e. How Israel should protect its civilians? Well, by being good and honest. Stop the killing to show good examples for everyone to follow. It's that simple. Give bad examples, expect the worst. Go back to The Hague or the UN. They got all the WMD they need to scare off the Arabs. Why are they still being afraid? The wrath of God?

f. Foolster 41: "Either Israel has a right to exist and defend her self, or she does not. The only reason Israel was attacked when the state was formed was because of its very existence".

f.1 What about other humans? What about their rights? Die quietly? Somewhere far and quiet?

g. What make U so sure they are not going to start world war 3? They had united like they were once was. The Soviet is no more. The USA is crippled by ongoing wars. Millions of Germans died miserably. Have they totally forgot about it?

h. Give the Palestinians their rights. There shall be peace. But Israel can't do that see. The UN resolution, 181, to be precise contradict with the Geneva Conventions. So, all the liars know their fate when the lies become the truth. That is why Israel ain't compromising. They got it all wrong since day 1. But the Arabs are showing that they are willing to accept the lies and compromise. Why don't they go back to the talks? Are they like the terrorists that chose terror over talks?

i. Did U see the news report showing 'helpless' Israelis bikers on Harley drinking and laughing on their bikes while watching the 'scary' wars not from a distant, from Gaza? They were close enough to watch your willy Pete exploded in broad daylight. Daylight? I thought willy Pete was meant to light up the night? Guess I was wrong.

j. Have U ever witnessed or read such a war or condition throughout the history of wars? I mean with spectators drinking and laughing and having a ball in the middle of a bloody massacre? This totally void the scary myth of the HAMAS firecrackers.

k. About nuking the Arabs, no, I'm not joking. I thought you read the verses of the Koran. We had to fight those who fought us and those who drove us out of our homes. It's a decree by God. We can't enter paradise for being cowards. So, we all going to die for your amusement. This is not my idea. I'm not that sick. But these stupidity are spreading in the cyber wars. 'little mushrooms over Mekah and Madinah' as I recall. Why? Were Saudi Arabia at war with any nuclear powers?

l. But then again, there is The Hague, the UN, flawed they maybe, but negotiations are better than killings, don't U think so?

Is this an accepted citation?

Jeff Halper, the American-Israeli founder of ICAHD/Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions informed this reporter: “Before 1947, the Palestinians owned 94% of the country. Then the UN gave away 56% to the Jews and today they have 78% of the land. Hamas cannot accept the legitimacy of Israel stealing their land, just as no colonial people would ever give up the claim to their homeland.”

http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/message-to-president-obama-and-americans-with-a-conscience/

Sri said: "a. The verses, can U give them in full, in case I have a HAMAS sources by mistake. What about your sources? Are they not that bias?"

I'm sorry but you're really loosing credibility more and more. A descent person would admit that Al Jazeera is from a pro-HAMAS source and leave at that. You give a childish thrashing out response instead. I am quoting from the bible. The bible was not founded by a terrorist organization. If you can't tell the difference, then I don't know what else to say. Perhaps you see nothing wrong in quoting HAMAS.

You can find the references at biblegateway.com just enter the verses in the search bar.

b. doesn't really answer anything. Both sides must have a desire to stop war for there to be an end of war. You suggesting to "spend a few bucks on peace" is vague. Putting away ones weapons when there is an aggressor isn't peace, it's suicide.

c. Again you show your bias against Israel as if Israel is the one causing all the problems when it is ARAB MUSLIMS who are declaring war against Israel and it is ARAB MUSLIMS who spew hatred against Jews. It is not "blood thirsty" but quite the opposite, to preserve lives in Israel from the blood thirsty Muslims who have shown time and time again they would like to slaughter the Jews. America isn't putting people in arenas and feeding them to lions.

Sri said: "e. "How Israel should protect its civilians? Well, by being good and honest. Stop the killing to show good examples for everyone to follow. It's that simple. Give bad examples, expect the worst. Go back to The Hague or the UN. They got all the WMD they need to scare off the Arabs. Why are they still being afraid? The wrath of God?""
Basically you're saying Israel should commit suicide. The WMDs are apparently NOT scaring the Arabs because they continue to attack because they know Israel is too good to use them. The UN is being mostly controlled by the OIC, so they'll hardly help. (Remember, the UN declared the day of Israel's independence as a day of mourning!). If the UN won't help, and threats of WMD won't help, what should Israel do?

Sri said: "f.1 What about other humans? What about their rights? Die quietly? Somewhere far and quiet?"
This is bunk. Israel is not infringing on anyone else rights. As I said, it is the ARAB Muslims who started the crap. They attacked Israel first, for the sole reason of their existence. Israel fought back, and won and ceased land to prevent another attack, and it was declared a war crime by Arabs. When Isreal was attacked by suicide bombers they built a wall, and of course arabs called it a "war crime". When Israel started getting hit with rockets they started firing back at the rocketers, and again this was declared a war crime because the rocketers hid behind civilians giving Israel no choice.

Sri: "g. What make U so sure they are not going to start world war 3? They had united like they were once was. The Soviet is no more. The USA is crippled by ongoing wars. Millions of Germans died miserably. Have they totally forgot about it?"
This is foolishness. Israel has neither the means or desire to take over like Germany did. Israel has only been fighting back against Arab aggressors, and has only taken as much land as needed strategically to prevent further attacks. Also, if there is nazi-like propaganda it is coming from the Arab countries surrounding Israel, and not from Israel.

Sri said: "h. Give the Palestinians their rights. There shall be peace. But Israel can't do that see. The UN resolution, 181, to be precise contradict with the Geneva Conventions. So, all the liars know their fate when the lies become the truth. That is why Israel ain't compromising. They got it all wrong since day 1. But the Arabs are showing that they are willing to accept the lies and compromise. Why don't they go back to the talks? Are they like the terrorists that chose terror over talks?"
This is completely untrue. Most Palestinians reject a two state solution[1], as is also HAMAS's official policy[2]. HAMAS still supports genocide openly, therefore there can be no peace with HAMAS.

[1]http://www.angus-reid.com/poll/view/most_palestinians_reject_two_state_solution/
[2] http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1084227.html

i. You keep talking about white phosphorus ("willy pete") and yet you haven't yet, as I have asked giving proof that it was being used deliberately for non-smoke purposes.

j. Again, you call HAMAS's rockets "firecrackers" to minimalize the death they cause.

k. I have seen no indication that Israel is going to nuke any Arab country. You try to make Muslims out to be the victims when it is the Muslims who attacked them first. It is commanded in the Koran about eminity and hatred against Jews.

l. The UN is being run by Muslims, so they are hardly a fair party. Negotiations are better than killing, but Israel's complaints fall on deaf ears, so then what?

Tell me, what is your opinion of HAMAS? Do you think it is bad, somewhat bad, neither good nor bad, somewhat good or good?

"Is this an accepted citation?" That is fine, though they seem to have a pro-Iran slant that more than a little troubling. At any rate, I have a countering source.

http://www.postcolonialweb.org/poldiscourse/said/rauch1.html

"On point #2, the statements that the Arabs owned 94% of Palestine (the 25% of historic Palestine that remained after removing Transjordan) is entirely untrue. The British "owned" the majority of the land. They owned it by virtue of the Allied victory in WWI. Arabs never "owned" the majority of this land: certainly not for hundred of years or more - and they only obtained it then by force of arms from other people a couple hundred years before that."

All in all, you seem to have a strong bias against Israel. It is Israel who has been trying to get peace, and it is HAMAS and the other Arab nations who have attacked Israel and have spouted genocidal rederic.

UN in favours of the Muslims? All the Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists? Hmm. This is very interesting. Thank U Foolster41, I'll try to get back at U, sorry, to U after this. It's getting harder n harder for me now. All the resources that I have are all void. I have to use ref. n resources from the Zionists or Israel's side from now on. Hope not that exclusively.Do they have what Muslims' have? I mean self criticsm! Wow! The water level is definately rising. Hope there won't be a flood. I got to go somewhere n teach. Hope I won't get stranded or something. Wait 4 me now ok. C U.

UN in favours of the Muslims? All the Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists? Hmm. This is very interesting. Thank U Foolster41, I'll try to get back at U, sorry, to U after this. It's getting harder n harder for me now. All the resources that I have are all void. I have to use ref. n resources from the Zionists or Israel's side from now on. Hope not that exclusively.Do they have what Muslims' have? I mean self criticsm! Wow! The water level is definately rising. Hope there won't be a flood. I got to go somewhere n teach. Hope I won't get stranded or something. Wait 4 me now ok. C U.

UN in favours of the Muslims? All the Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists? Hmm. This is very interesting. Thank U Foolster41, I'll try to get back at U, sorry, to U after this. It's getting harder n harder for me now. All the resources that I have are all void. I have to use ref. n resources from the Zionists or Israel's side from now on. Hope not that exclusively.Do they have what Muslims' have? I mean self criticsm! Wow! The water level is definately rising. Hope there won't be a flood. I got to go somewhere n teach. Hope I won't get stranded or something. Wait 4 me now ok. C U.

UN in favours of the Muslims? All the Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists? Hmm. This is very interesting. Thank U Foolster41, I'll try to get back at U, sorry, to U after this. It's getting harder n harder for me now. All the resources that I have are all void. I have to use ref. n resources from the Zionists or Israel's side from now on. Hope not that exclusively.Do they have what Muslims' have? I mean self criticsm! Wow! The water level is definately rising. Hope there won't be a flood. I got to go somewhere n teach. Hope I won't get stranded or something. Wait 4 me now ok. C U.

"I'll try to get back at U, sorry, to U after this. It's getting harder n harder for me now. All the resources that I have are all void. I have to use ref. n resources from the Zionists or Israel's side from now on. Hope not that exclusively.Do they have what Muslims' have? I mean self criticsm!"

Uh. absolutely not, but have fun in your fantasy of persecution. You're trying to make it sound like I'm stacking things against you, but really your fooling no one. I never said anything near that all your sources was void, or that I'd only accept "pro-zionist" sources. The only one I said was invalid was Al Jazeera, which is a front for a terrorist organization. I did point out some concerns about another being pro-Iran (Your not pro-Iran are you?), but I accepted it and also pointed to sources that counter those claims. Why are you throwing a tantrum over this? Do you really think it unfair that I not accept Al Jezeera as a source?

I also criticized some of your sources because they were vague and I requested more specific information, but really I can't see how this is unreasonable.

Amnesty says Israeli response to Hamas strikes disproportionate

"The report logs the 643 rocket attacks on Israel by Palestinian militants between December 27th and January 11th last. Amnesty names the three Israeli citizens, Beber Vaknin, Irit Sheetret and Bedouin Hani al-Mahdi, killed in the first three days of these attacks between December 27th and 29th.

The indiscriminate firing of such rockets – clearly designed to kill and maim – at population centres such as Sderot and Ashkelon represents clear breaches of the Geneva conventions which explicitly prohibit the inappropriate use or modification of weapons or the targeting of civilians and civilian objects".

"The Israeli response to these indiscriminate rocket attacks is examined in similar forensic detail within Amnesty’s report. In terms of proportionality, the casualty statistics for Palestinian civilians are stark.

According to Amnesty: “In the three weeks following the start of the Israeli military offensive on 27th December, Israeli forces killed more than 1,300 Palestinians in Gaza, including more than 300 children and many other civilians, and injured over 5,000 other Palestinians, again including many civilians.”

The report concludes that “some of the Israeli bombardments and other attacks were directed at civilians or civilian buildings within the Gaza Strip; others were disproportionate or indiscriminate”.

The report adds: “Amnesty International has found indisputable evidence that Israeli forces used white phosphorus which has a highly incendiary effect, in densely-populated residential areas in Gaza.”

In summary, Amnesty states quite simply: “Direct attacks on civilians and civilian objects, disproportionate attacks and indiscriminate attacks are war crimes.”

The report examines in detail the misuse of conventional arms by the IDF, the Israeli Defence Forces, during the conflict.

This analysis includes the misuse of anti-tank mines, artillery and mortars within Gaza by IDF troops. Amnesty investigators recovered and photographed a vast array of Israeli and US manufactured anti-tank mines, spent shell-casings and mortar tail-fins scattered through Palestinian homes, UN schools and in the administrative centre and headquarters of UNRWA in Gaza.

Amnesty’s experts also recovered and examined the remnants and fragments of US manufactured air-launched missiles, rockets and guided bomb units – again scattered indiscriminately through heavily-populated residential districts, UN schools and other UN installations.

The misuse of such weapons systems by the IDF – all of them complex crew-served weapons systems or high-tech systems aboard Israeli aircraft – comprises evidence of a systematic and systemic attempt on the part of the general staff of the IDF to terrorise Gaza’s civilian population. Significantly, the use of such weapons systems in a co-ordinated manner by any military formation cannot be explained away as the result of individual actions on the part of inexperienced frontline troops. Nor can the wholesale misuse of such weapons systems in built-up areas be blamed on the misguided on-the-spot decisions of individual Israeli commanders.

The combined arms nature of the protracted Israeli onslaught on an area inhabited by 1.5 million civilians – 48 per cent of whom were children under the age of 15 – on an objective military analysis, appears to provide clear evidence of war crimes on the part of Israel’s general staff.

The evidence gathered by Amnesty on the use of non-conventional weapons by the IDF in Gaza is very disturbing. Its report contains photographs of US manufactured 155mm white phosphorous shells found in and around UN schools and other installations in Gaza. It also details the use of Flechette tank shells by IDF troops in the densely-populated streets of Gaza. A Flechette is a 4cm metal dart designed to rip and tear human flesh.

According to Amnesty’s expert report, the IDF field-tested new non-conventional weapons systems including an air-launched missile that releases lethal cube-shaped shrapnel capable of penetrating the walls and roofs of dwellings, offices and even hardened bomb-shelters. According to Amnesty, on detonation such missiles release hundreds of tiny sharpened metal cubes each between 2mm and 4mm square in size.

In response to their findings, Amnesty concludes that both Hamas and the Israeli military authorities are guilty of war crimes.

While military analysts have come to accept breaches of the Geneva conventions on the part of militant groups such as Hamas, the sheer scale, premeditation and prosecution of war crimes by the Israeli general staff in Gaza beggars belief.

In concluding its report, Amnesty International makes two simple demands. One, that the United Nations Security Council establish an immediate independent investigation into these allegations of war crimes by all sides to the conflict and that those found responsible be brought to justice.

Secondly, Amnesty calls on the international community to impose a full and comprehensive arms embargo on both Hamas and the Israeli Defence Forces".
Reported by Dr Tom Clonan.
(Dr Tom Clonan is the Irish Times security analyst. He lectures in the school of media at the Dublin Institute of Technology).
Excerpt from http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0225/1224241774284.html

Thank you. This is much more detailed. I'm going to look into this.

According to Amnesty: “In the three weeks following the start of the Israeli military offensive on 27th December, Israeli forces killed more than 1,300 Palestinians in Gaza, including more than 300 children and many other civilians, and injured over 5,000 other Palestinians, again including many civilians.”

That civilians are killed aren't proof that Isreal is targeting civilians directly. Like I said, HAMAS is hiding behind civilians, leaving Isreal very little choice.

"The report adds: “Amnesty International has found indisputable evidence that Israeli forces used white phosphorus which has a highly incendiary effect, in densely-populated residential areas in Gaza.”

But the definition of a illegal use isn't WHERE it's used, it is the INTENT. You need to show it was being fired directly at people with intent to burn them with the WP, as opposed to be used as illumination. Considering these "civilian areas" are the very areas that the rockets are being fired from, this still is not a strong enough case of a war crime.

"It also details the use of Flechette tank shells by IDF troops in the densely-populated streets of Gaza. A Flechette is a 4cm metal dart designed to rip and tear human flesh."
This I will agree while maybe not illegal, this is wrong and should stop. (And thus I disagree with point #4 of the article I link to below, though the statement is technically true.)

Here is a response by Israel that points out why this report is somewhat one-sided.

"2.There is no mention in the Amnesty report of Hamas' deliberate use of civilians as human shields: Hamas' bases, ammunition depots and battlegrounds were all purposely located in the midst of Palestinian population centers, with willful intent to cause injury to this population during the fighting. Hamas openly used women and children as shields for military targets, and booby-trapped homes and public buildings.

3.There is no mention in the Amnesty report of Hamas' deliberate use of civilians as human shields: Hamas' bases, ammunition depots and battlegrounds were all purposely located in the midst of Palestinian population centers, with willful intent to cause injury to this population during the fighting. Hamas openly used women and children as shields for military targets, and booby-trapped homes and public buildings."

Also I completely agree with this:

"7. The comparison of the supply of weapons to Israel and the Hamas is inappropriate. Israel is a sovereign nation that is obligated to use force to protect its citizens, while Hamas is a terror organization. Can a comparison be made between the weapons used by Al-Qaeda to those used by NATO forces? "

Which is responding to this in the AI report:
"Secondly, Amnesty calls on the international community to impose a full and comprehensive arms embargo on both Hamas and the Israeli Defence Forces".
Reported by Dr Tom Clonan."

It treats a sovereign nation defending themselves and a terrorist organization bent on genocide as being equals.
At the very most, Israel should be pressured to not use certain kinds of weapons, but to embargo all weapons from Isreal is akin to the allowance of genocide. On the other hand, HAMAS is a terrorist orginization and should be completely embargoed. That I can agree with AI on.

source: http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/About%20the%20Ministry/MFA%20Spokesman/2009/Spokesman%20statements/Israel_response_Amnesty_International_report_23-Feb-2009.htm

UN in favours of the Muslims? All the Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists? Hmm. This is very interesting. Thank U Foolster41, I'll try to get back at U, sorry, to U after this. It's getting harder n harder for me now. All the resources that I have are all void. I have to use ref. n resources from the Zionists or Israel's side from now on. Hope not that exclusively.Do they have what Muslims' have? I mean self criticsm! Wow! The water level is definately rising. Hope there won't be a flood. I got to go somewhere n teach. Hope I won't get stranded or something. Wait 4 me now ok. C U.

Dejavu! You already posted this (and it was before another one of your posts). See above for my response to this completely incorrect characterizing claim.

Foolster41,

I got to ask your honest opinion. It seems that all the fuss on this page that we are on is about targeting civilians, to be precise, a bloody fate that awaits civilians, defenceless of course, against an armed hostile and deadly military action. How does that differs between what the terrorists had or planning to do with what Israel had n planning to do in the future?

Hope U can answer honestly without any citations. Just your own plain conscience. Thanks 4 waiting up for me. Got some problems with some viruses trying to annoy me or something.

What is, in my opinion the difference between when HAMAS targeting Israli civilians and Isreal hitting civilians?
I've said it quite a few times already,

but think of it this way: A man shoots from his house to another house and kills someone, and continues shooting and throwing grenades. The other person in order to defend himself shoots back and hits the man's wife. In my opinion, HAMAS is behaving like the first man, and Israel the second. Israel is only "targeting civilians" in that HAMAS is shooting rockets from behind them, giving them very little choice.

Do U know why they do it in the first place? I mean taking on the strongest military there is in the world with puny rockets from inside the largest concentration camp in the world?

I tire of your anti-Israel bias. At least your acknowledging that Gaza did in fact strike first.

In what way is Gaza like a concentration camp? Please be specific. It seems to me palatinates had every chance to make Gaza a nice place to live, but instead decided to turn it into a war camp to attack Israel.

I'm sorry to have taken so much time to get back to you Foolster41, it seemed the glitches are over. But just to be sure, have you ever encountered any problems on logging in to this webpage? Sometimes it took like forever for me to get through and even crashed my browser. N could you inform me how long does it take for your comment to get through.

Ok, first of all, what made you think that Gaza is not a concentration camp? Set aside the concentrated Palestinians there, with their homes and lands being taken by the Zionists at Deir Yassin and etc. You like to ask for logical explanation against your common belief. What's your logic of believing otherwise? Can you share with me before I present the logic that you've asked for. I would like to wish you a belated happy Christmas if I may.

One more if I may,do you know about the cease fire arrangement between Israel and Hamas prior to the rocket firings?

Sorry it took so long to reply.

It takes me usually a few minutes, I don't think any more than 5 or so minutes at worst. for a post to go through usually.

"Ok, first of all, what made you think that Gaza is not a concentration camp?"

YOU are the one making the positive claim, it makes no sense to turn it around to ask ME for proof that it ISN'T happening.

"Set aside the concentrated Palestinians there, with their homes and lands being taken by the Zionists at Deir Yassin and etc."

"One more if I may,do you know about the cease fire arrangement between Israel and Hamas prior to the rocket firings?"
I know of it, yes. I'm not sure where you're going with this.
(And)
"What's your logic of believing otherwise?"

This is a leading question, it is phrased with the assumption that you are right and I'm ignoring the bleeding obvious without actually stating it that way without actually presenting facts to show you are right.

Facts, not rhetoric please.

Rats my note didn't post. It usualy takes a few minutes.

"Ok, first of all, what made you think that Gaza is not a concentration camp? Set aside the concentrated Palestinians there, with their homes and lands being taken by the Zionists at Deir Yassin and etc. You like to ask for logical explanation against your common belief. What's your logic of believing otherwise? "

Firstly, this makes no sense. YOU are making the positive claims, not I and so to try to turn it around to "prove that my claim is false" is silly and illogical.

Secondly, your question? statement? is leading and dishonest. All you are saying it "you're wrong, and idiot who is defying logic (by, might I add, only asking for PROOF)." without actually saying it.

Now that is out of the way, perhaps we should attack the individual issues. What do you think of the wall? HAMAS cries about it being a "war crime", but perhaps that's because HAMAS is angry they can't get their suicide bombers through to kill more Israli citizens (It is after all, them who has called for Israel's destruction in statements and in their charter and has spread VILE DISGUSTING BLOOD LIBEL AND HATE, to CHILDREN nonetheless through the TV station Al-Jazereea(sp?).

If you need examples of such blood libel that can be called nothing less than aspirations for GENOCIDE check out here:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/01/hamas-tv-airs-blood-libel-says-israeli-settlers-drink-palestinians-blood.html

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/02/hamas-bunny-on-motoon-cartoonists-if-they-do-it-again-saraa-we-will-kill-them-right.html

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/02/hamas-kid-tv-rabbit-i-assud-will-get-rid-of-the-jews-allah-willing-and-i-will-eat-them-up-allah-will.html

And there are many more!

Sorry for the double post, my first was delayed, and I thought it wasn't going through.

You never did answer some of my questions.
1.)What do you think of HAMAS? Do you see it as:
a.)very bad
b.)somewhat bad
c.)neither good nor bad
d.)good
e.)very good
2.)Same question as 1 but about the government of Iran.
3.)You keep dancing around this, I want a straight answer on this. If someone is firing from behind a civilian, and people are being harmed as a result, do you think it is morally wrong for a person to strike back in order to stop him, knowing the civilian MAY be killed (who happens to share the gunman's hatred for the people being shot, though he may disagree with his particular role as shield), and knowing that if he doesn't take action more of his own people will be killed?
Some new questions:
4.)Are you a Muslim? If so, what sect? (I apologize if you already said this, this has been a long conversation, and I can't find it from a search.)
5.)Do you beleive Mohammad was a good example as a man?
6.)Do you beleive there is in the core teachings of Islam things that need to be changed?
(These are for if you answered YES to #5)
7.)Do you beleive non-Muslims should be punished for criticizing or mocking Mohammad and Islam? If so, what should the punishment be?
8.)What do you think about amputations and floggings as punishments?
9.)Do you beleive that ultimately Islam should rule the world, not by merely preaching it, but by force of the sword and trying to change laws to conform to sharia?

I may think of more questions. Thank you.

Hi Foolster41, yes it's been a long talk n frankly speaking I'm quite lost, but I'll try to focus on your recent questions with the time I have at hand. If I forgot to address any important issues, please remind me later.

1. Hamas is very good. But like any other human organisation, unlike the angels, flaws are inevitable. With so many brains and desires, just like the US army and CIA. Remember private Green that gang raped and killed the entire family of the victim, chopped her to pieces and burnt her meat while framing the jihadist of doing it? Does it represent the US army in general? Excuse us for not being perfect like you guys.

2. Iran is very good too. But not perfect just like anyone of us. The US nuked, poisoned and firebombed almost the entire race of the human kind, indiscriminately, in almost all four corners of the world, but that still doesn't make it a 100% evil terminator.

3. He should use his wits rather than his balls to lure, wait and just kill the killer without hurting the killer's relatives, babies and et cetera. What's the rush? Don't you know about SWAT rules of engagement? Like the Palestinians. You got them cornered with gigantic walls, mini guns and inhumane blockade. What's your Christian view on this one?

4. I am a Muslim. We are one, so any Muslims that follow the ways of Muhammad, as in the Sunnah, Al Quran and Al Hadith shown and continued by his trustworthy companions and Muslim scholars and adhere to the 5 principles of Islam and 6 pillars of faith are my brothers n sisters.

5. Yes, compared to Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, Radovan Karadzic, Mao, Roman emperors that built coliseum to witness people killed each other for their amusement, watching gladiators died and cheered in a drunken manner, most US president, Western leaders that toasted babies, lied repeatedly, broke treaties and said it had to be done and et cetera and et cetera.

6. Which one? On abortion? On sex without marriage? On killing Japanese civilians to avenge Pearl Harbour? On taking creatures as gods besides the One True God? On confirming the ten commandments?

7. Yes, in court of his choice, according to his term and conditions and the right to speak his mind why he thinks Islam is bad and Muhammad is a liar compared to what went down in history and current slayers of Palestinian civilians. He must present his case so that everyone would bear witness to the lies of the century, Islam, abortion, sex slaves, sex magazines, porn industries and killers of humanity. Syariah is just for Muslims. Non Muslims are not entitled to it.

8. Good. Spare the rod; spoil the brat kind of thing. With so much killing, raping and Madoff wannabe happening around us. What's your solution in dealing with the ever increasing crime rate? Make abortion, killing the helpless and sex trade unlawful? Preaching pornography like in the US? You guys tortured suspected terrorists for fun and have the guts to question how Islam deals with criminals? Christians gutted alive those who committed crimes against the church, burnt them alive in inquisitions just for the suspicion of heresy. What do you have to say about them? Besides, according to Syariah, four trustworthy witnesses known for their piousness must be present at the scene of the sex crime, which made it almost impossible for the judge to execute the maximum penalty. Even the slightest doubt would annul the charge. And most of the conviction requires the offender to confess without being slowly torn to pieces on the rack, a special device of medieval torture machine invented by Christian church. One more, all the doors to the evil must be closed by the Muslim community to make the Syariah worked. So any tempting conditions or situations must be addressed first through education and implementing laws and regulations to promote and make it easy for anyone wished to get married and get a life.

9. Peacefully and intellectually, yes. So that none would complain in the hereafter that the message of the truth didn't reach him and not forgetting free will. Also to stop another crazy human being, especially non Muslims from being another ungodly humangod like Genghis Khan, Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, Karadzic, Mao, Pol Pot, Sharon, leaders of Irgun and Lehmann and et cetera and et cetera. Not by force. Not like the Romans that brought Roman Catholic all over Europe and destroyed the British resistance led by Boudica. By the way, did you know the early history of Christianity? I mean the crucification of the Christians by the Romans before miraculously embraced the same faith of their gladiators? The same gladiators that killed and died in front of a cheering crowd like in a football stadium nowadays. Muslims must convey the word of God to all mankind. Jesus Christ was only sent to the Israelite. Not to the rest of the human race. Just like Prophet Musa to the Israelite and not to the Egyptians. And even then, he was rejected by his people and the Romans tried to kill him, remember? Only a handful accepted him and became Christians without trinity.

By the way, have you watched Keanu Reeves in The Day The Earth Stood Still? Awesome aint it? I mean the human questions brought up in the movie.

1.)You support a TERRORIST RACIST ORGINIZATION. They constantly call for the elimination of Isreal/Jews and act towards that means (as I have earlier shown). It is ILLEGAL to donate money to them, and to do so is to fund terrorism, a federal crime.

2.)You support a SUPPRESIVE RACIST REGIME who called for wiping out Isreal, and opresses non-muslims and funds TERRORISM.

3.)"What's the rush?" What's the rush?!! Read closely what I wrote. JEWS (PEOPLE!) ARE BEING KILLED. Aparently it's not that big a deal to you when jews die, and they can just take their time. Their just Jews, right? Angyway, who is the swat? The UN who contenues to throw out meaningless declerations and seems intent on treated Isreal as just as guilty (or even worse)? You're anti-semetism is showing.

4.)Not really surprised from what you've posted so far that you're a muslim.

5.)From your own lips! Only comparedto MONSTERS is Mohammad a good example! Thank you for your honesy.

6.)Double speak and typical Muslim distraction. I ask about Islam's call to dominate the world through the sword and impose sharia, and a muslim goes into "blame mode"

7.)"Non Muslims are not entitled to it". A lie. If this is true, why is sharia imposed on non-muslims in muslim majority nations?

8.)You praise HARSH BARBARIAC practices. I am not against capital punishment for severe crimes, but there is a line between keeping the law and being a barbarian.

9.) "Jesus Christ was only sent to the Israelite. Not to the rest of the human race. " I recommend you read your bible more. Try John 4, Acts 10, Galations 3:6-9 and Romans 4:1-12.

Never seen earth stood still. Frankly, I don't really like Keanu Reaves. That someone who supports the things you do above thinks it's awesome is even more reason to stay away from it.

To summarize, you unaquvilicly praise terrorist organizations, goverments that support terrorism and oppressive sharia law on non-beleivers, you show little concern for the death of Jews, you praise and you say Mohammad is a good example, only compared to mass murders (Mo was after all, a mass murderer himself!).

Thanks for showing what peace loving "moderate" Muslims look like! I'm going to fight politcaly all the more to make sure people who think like you do not get power in the west! Who needs "Islamaphobes" to discredit Islam when Muslims do such a good job themselves?

I think I'm done here, I don't think I have any more to say to you, so Good bye. Please get out of the west and go to somewhere where Sharia law is appreciated. May I recommend Iran?

If you do choose to follow the path of Jihad (You certaintly don't sound you have any moral problems with it!) then may your bombs all prematurely detonate.

7.)"Non Muslims are not entitled to it". A lie. If this is true, why is sharia imposed on non-muslims in muslim majority nations?

You forgot to back it up with proof, unbias of course. Are you eating your own words again?

7.)"Non Muslims are not entitled to it". A lie. If this is true, why is sharia imposed on non-muslims in muslim majority nations?

You forgot to back it up with proof, unbias of course. Are you eating your own words now foolster41?

Don't ridicule my prophet without unbias accepted universal truth proof, foolster41, don't make me angry, you won't like it if I'm angry. I might end up being an incredible hulk or something. Did you watch it foolster41? What kind of movies that interest you anyway?

Err, you need a tutor too to help you out, in spelling I mean. Catch you later foolster41, stay cool n unfool if possible. Cheerio.

Before I go, we finally have agree on something.

To summarize, you unaquvilicly praise terrorist organizations, goverments that support terrorism and oppressive sharia law on non-beleivers, you show little concern for the death of Jews, you praise and you say Mohammad is a good example, only compared to mass murders (Mo was after all, a mass murderer himself!).

5. Yes, compared to Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin, Radovan Karadzic, Mao, Roman emperors that built coliseum to witness people killed each other for their amusement, watching gladiators died and cheered in a drunken manner, most US president, Western leaders that toasted babies, lied repeatedly, broke treaties and said it had to be done and et cetera and et cetera.

Most US Presidents are mass murders.

Sri said: “You forgot to back it [That sharia is imposed on non-muslims –Foolster] up with proof, unbias of course. Are you eating your own words now foolster41?”

Hypocracy since you havn’t yet given citations for your claim that Isreal is “occupying” Gaza. I will be more fair than you are:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/01/washington-post-prints-soothing-lies-about-islamic-laws-treatment-of-non-muslims.html

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/10/sharia-advancing-in-iraq----for-non-muslims-too.html

Muslims demanding sharia for everyone in the UK: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/10/uk-muslim-group-demands-full-sharia-law.html

You can find many more if you cared to look here on Jihadwatch instead of covering your earsa and shouting “inshalla la la”!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Sharia+law+non-muslims+site%3Awww.jihadwatch.org&aq=f&aql=&aqi=&oq=

Sri said: “Don't ridicule my prophet without unbias accepted universal truth proof, foolster41, don't make me angry, you won't like it if I'm angry.”

Of course, thank you for showing that muslims when discoursing Islam can do no better than to eventually colapse to THREATS. Again, you fail to show that Islam is after all peaceful, since you yourself do not act in a peaceful manner.
“Err, you need a tutor too to help you out, in spelling I mean. Catch you later foolster41, stay cool n unfool if possible. Cheerio.”
..and petty Ad Honem attacks, since again you can’t win by the strength of your arguments, you attack my spelling as if my spelling has anything to do with the strength of my arguments. Also, this is pure hypocracy. Perhaps you’ve forgotten your earlier posts on this page “Thanks Foolster41, I bet U the type that ain't easily fooled eh? Sorry if I sounded snobbish n arrogant.”
If you are willing to discourse with me as an adult and not use these silly petty remarks I am willing to talk, otherwise you’re just wasting my time.
“Most US Presidents are mass murders.”
You’re trying to seriously reduce Linceon, Truman, Eisenhower, Washington, all war time commanders to that of Bin Laden et al? Unless you can actually prove this remark, this is a GROSSLY libelous remark.
War is not the same as terrorism. War is terrible, but it is better to fight to defend oneselves from facistm than to surcome. that is why we (the west, including America) fought agains the facists in Germany, Italy and Japan. Surely you don’t think it was wrong to fight back against those forces, instead of leaving them unchecked?

Mohammad himself commmanded those who would follow him to attack and subjegate the non-beleiver. Your co-religionists (and perhaps yourself if you are not mearly deceived) lie about this, but I have read the Koran, or at least enough to see what he says, and I’ve read about his life. Your co-religionists are following the path of mohmmad when they blow up their underpants in a crowded airplane, send planes into our buildings, blow up crowded trains, and kill jews with rockets and suicide bombs. It is Islam that has declared war on the non-beleiver in c. 700 AD and when the west actually has the audacity to fight back, your co-religionists declare themselves the victems.
Either you support this interprise, and in which case you are a vile state, and I pray that you will turn from your hatred, or you should investigate your faith further and find what I say is true, and that it leads nowhere except to death and the grave, and further down to eternal death. (I am speaking of what I truly believe is truth.)
If you do not follow this way, and you are a muslim in name only, then your so-called co-religionists consider you a traitor, a non-beleiver worthy of death. I pray you make your choice to abandon hatred, to love peace. It is better to stand against evil and suffer than to join with those who are evil.
God is the granter of peace, and commanded “Turn the other cheek” and “love ye one another”, this is a stark contrast to those of mohammad.