ElBaradei: "Israel is the number one threat to the Middle East given the nuclear arms it possesses"

It's important to note that the source of this quotation is Iran's Islamic Republic News Agency, and therefore must be taken with a grain of salt: Will ElBaradei contradict or deny he said that?

But regarding the statement itself: Never mind that Iran is the most visible state sponsor of jihad terrorism across the Middle East, while Israel is concerned only with defending its own borders. Never mind that Iran is run by clerics who prize death over life, and endorse a president with apocalyptic aspirations to hasten the return of the Mahdi. No, Iran is the "number one threat" to the Middle East with conventional weapons, making comparisons to Israel immaterial.

"ElBaradei says nuclear Israel number one threat to Mideast: report," from Xinhua, October 4 (thanks to all who sent this in):

TEHRAN, Oct. 4 (Xinhua) -- Director General of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) Mohamed ElBaradei said Sunday that "Israel is number one threat to Middle East" with its nuclear arms, the official IRNA news agency reported.
At a joint press conference with Iran's Atomic Energy Organization chief Ali Akbar Salehi in Tehran, ElBaradei brought Israel under spotlight and said that the Tel Aviv regime has refused to allow inspections into its nuclear installations for 30years, the report said.
"Israel is the number one threat to the Middle East given the nuclear arms it possesses," ElBaradei was quoted as saying.
Israel is widely assumed to have nuclear capabilities, although it refuses to confirm or deny the allegation.
"This (possession of nuclear arms) was the cause for some proper measures to gain access to its (Israel's) power plants ... and the U.S. president has done some positive measures for the inspections to happen," said ElBaradei.
ElBaradei arrived in Iran Saturday for talks with Iranian officials over Tehran's nuclear program.
Leaders of the United States, France and Britain have condemned Iran's alleged deception to the international community involving covert activities in its new underground nuclear site.
Last month, Iran confirmed that it is building a new nuclear fuel enrichment plant near its northwestern city of Qom. In reaction, the IAEA asked Tehran to provide detailed information and access to the new nuclear facility as soon as possible.
On Sunday, ElBaradei said the UN nuclear watchdog would inspect Iran's new uranium plant near Qom on Oct. 25.
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74 Comments

I doubt that El Baradei said this, but his behavior has certainly been that of someone who does not urgently see the need to keep Muslim states from acquiring nuclear weapons. And how could he? He's a Muslim, and it was madness to have him as the head of the I.A.E.A., a madness one hopes is never repeated.

Not all posssessors of nuclear weapons are equal. Imagine that Australia had recently acquired nuclear weapons. Would anyone in the world say that there are now two more nuclear powers in Asia -- Australia and North Korea -- and that they are "equally worrisome"? Australia's possession of such weapons would be not worrisome at all.

In the same way, we all know that Israel has not only as much right, or indeed given the history of the world, a greater moral and political claim to such weapons, than any other country on earth (which is why "universal nuclear disarmament" simply cannot be supported, for it would require the suicide of Israel). And we also know that Israel has possessed such weapons for many decades, but has refrained from even a hint of using them.

And we know something else. We know that this is recognized not only by all educated and intelligent and fair-minded people in the West (that last is meant to excluse the band of antisemites and antisemitisants, who are always and everywhere to be found out, and shown up -- it doesn't happen often enough), but -- nota bene -- by the Muslim Arabs themselves.

For we all know that Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emigrates, and Kuwait, and other Arab Muslmi lands, are extremely worried about Iran acquiring nuclear weapons, worried in a way that they have never been about Israel's possession of such weapons. Why? Because of course they know perfectly well, and by their behavior, and agitation over Iran, shown it to all with eyes to see and minds to understand, that Israel's nuclear weapons do not worry them because, despite all of the Arab and Muslim propaganda for the world, they know that Israel will use such weapons only if attacked, and only in the case of direst need, while Muslim Iran -- well, Muslim Iran, the Islamic Republic of Iran, is an entirely different story.

What a joke this comment is:

'while Israel is concerned only with defending its own borders."

Show me a map with the Israeli borders identified on it that has been issue by Israel and is internationally recognized.

You can't do it because Israel said herself what means "the border is where the army has advanced to."

This is the most popular lie out there that Israel is somehow the meek victim of the evil forces seeking its destruction and is merely protecting its "borders."

Peace
Abdullah

If Israel does not have "borders" but only "armistice lines" that is because, in 1949, and for years after, when Israel tried and tried to get the Arab states to recognize borders rather than armistice lines, they refused. Tant pis pour eux. Now that Israel managed, through force of arms -- that is, its successful defense in a war brought on by Nasser and Nasser alone (see the pictures of those hysterical Cairene crowds in May 1967, or read what Nasser threatened, or what he did in moving up troops to the Sinai and ordering U Thant to remove the U.N. contingent, or in declaring a blockade Straits of Tiran - any one of which alone constitutes a casus belli)-- to retake parts of the territory orignally assigned to it by the League of Nations (in its Mandate for Palestine), as it did in 1967 with those parts of Judea and Samaria that the Jordanians had seized in 1949 and deliberately renamed the "West Bank" -- why should it, under what conceivable theory, should Israel give up the minimal strategic depth, and critical water resources, that that territory -- provides.And since the yielding of more than 95% of the territory Israel won in the Six-Day War was handed over, the Sinai (in three tranches) to Egypt, which has failed to live up to any of its solemn promises under the same Camp David Accords, and to the Arabs of Gaza, who proceeded not to buiid anything but to tear down not only the greenhouses and other infrastructure that the Isrealis handed over to them, but to spend most off their time -0- UNRWA and Infidel billiions on top of UNRWA supply their every basic need, and then some -- smuggling in weapons and attempting to tear down whatever parts of Israel they could reach by rocket.

The Arabs had a chance to make those armistice lines borders. They refused. Israel is under no obligation to keep such an offer open forever, and certainly not after the repeated wars made on it from those very territories.

Don't be so continuously, if sometimes imaginatively, absurd.

From nit picker above..."This is the most popular lie out there that Israel is somehow the meek victim of the evil forces seeking its destruction and is merely protecting its "borders."

Israels enemies don't really exist do they? There are no forces 'out there' seeking its destruction...except maybe Jimmy Carter...Israel has no borders so it has no right to protect itself...The border then is wherever Israel chooses to draw the line...If you don't like that, take it up with them...

Seriously dullard. You are such a dimwit.

nabi ZK (pbum)

I guess Baradei agrees with Europeans:

"Europeans consider Israel No.1 threat to world peace":

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-1510750.html

When you ask Israeli's, 54% say that Iran is the biggest threat to the Middle East. I thought that would be closer to 99%. Guess who is the second biggest threat to the Middle East according to Israelis? The US (26%). Let's give them a few billion more dollars.

http://people-press.org/report/185/views-of-a-changing-world-2003

From above: I guess Baradei agrees with Europeans...

Maybe...but who cares what the Euro's think...

The 26% of Israeli's mentioned are probably reacting to Rasulullahhaha Obama who did not hesitate to throw Israel under the bus...When Rasool is tossed out, that number will shrink...

duh swami:
"Maybe...but who cares what the Euro's think..."

Name one country in the world that you think would say Iran is a bigger threat to the Middle East than Israel, other the Usreal. If not a European country, then who? I know. Who care what anyone thinks other than Usrael.

"The 26% of Israeli's mentioned are probably reacting to Rasulullahhaha Obama"

The poll was taken in 2003.

El Baradei has been doing good things for the UN for many years. He is a tireless muslim, dealing with tyrants the world over who do not want to show their goods.

I doubt that others would have much more success, but use the "muslim is as muslim does" mantra as we are not getting anywhere.

No matter who is in charge, it is unlikely that you can stop Iran from aquiring nucleur technology. The persians are a learned people who are simply showinig their flair.

I doubt that they would use this technology against Israel...simply that Israel will learn to behave itself.

Interesting times ahead...talibanisation of Pak and women behaviour...and to think no progress was being made?

Mohammed ElBaradei: The fox guarding the hen-house.

Wildjew....what are you saying?

That you are chickens....you are the people who put him in charge....it's because you cannot trust yourselves, ElBaradei gives you the best ppossible chances to even talk to Iran.

Hugh,

Don’t be so self confident that Israel is the “good guy” and everyone else “the bad guy,” equally if not more imaginative and and absurd.

She brokers no feelings of honor in my when I consider all the terrorists that worked together to establish her, i.e. Irgun and Stern gang terrorists.

The evil they committed in terrorizing their own people, extorting protection money from murdering Jews and Gentiles alike, and later committing genocide using biological weapons against civilians all for their "noble goal" of establishing a "home land for the Jews". Keep in mind who we are discussing before you attempt to put the white armor on them, okay?

“…-- why should it, under what conceivable theory, should Israel give up the minimal strategic depth, and critical water resources, that that territory -- provides.”

Why? Because they are expanding illegal settlements in violation of international law, and they violate continuously the rights of the occupied people under the same international law.

Drop the “since they developed the land” they have the right to commit further genocide and expansion in the same territory.

Just because they developed the lands they occupied after coming in as murdering terrorists does not justify their continued occupation of it or their further spreading in to it by the same means.

Time will soon come when congressional and senatorial forces in our country are forced to question our blind unreasonable unquestioning support of Israel.

The time will soon come when it will no longer be labeled “anti-semetism” to officially call into question the policy decisions blindly in favor of Occupation Forces.

Peace
Abdullah

"ElBaradei gives you the best ppossible chances to even talk to Iran."

Yeah, that has worked so well, right?

That you think like this about me is a compliment coming from the likes of ye who doth not believe in the inherenet attraction of mass to mass. : )

Peace
Abdullah

"expanding illegal settlements..." -- from a tireless Muslim poster above, a Great Defender of the Faith

The "settlements" as you call them are Jewish villages that are, according to the express terms of the Mandate for Palestine, not only allowed, but are in fact to be deliberately encouraged by the Mandatory authority. See the Preamble to the Mandate for Palestine, in which "close Jewish settlement on the land" is to be encouraged.

I don't care how many times Arab and Muslim propagandists repeat such phrases as "illegal settlements" and "occupied lands." I don't care how many others, who do not know the legal history, including the cadastral history (do you know, or understand, that 90% of the land was never privately owned, but possessed by the Ottoman government, and that that land then came into the temporary possession of the Mandatory authority and then, naturally, into the possession of its intended successor, Israel? You don't know that? Why not?). Israel has, legally, historically, morally, a far superior claim to that of the Arabs and Muslims to this tiny strip of land. And for that matter, the Berbers have a much better claim than the Arabs to Morocco and the Kabyle, and the Kurds to northern Iraq and parts of Syria(since the real claimants, the Assyrians and Chaldeans, have been stripped of their power by the pressure of Islam, and unfortunately the Western world seems ill-inclined to create, and support, a state for Middle Eastern Christians in, say, Syria-Lebanon (one which, by the way, the Alawites might not disfavor).

Repeat the empty phrases all you wish. But the very idea that the Arab Muslims who possess or claim twenty-two states, collectively possessing 14 million square miles and the greatest source of unearned and unmerited wealth in human history -- the oil and gas deposits -- should also be entitled to deprive all of the many non-Muslim and non-Arab peoples of their own tiny claims, is disgusting and absurd. Of course what makes it worrisome for the rest of us, living far from that area, is that we now understand that these claims are based on Islam and, on the Arab supremacism of which Islam has always been the vehicle. We are threatened just as much as is Israel, and for exactly the same reasons. And our fate is tied to that of Israel, just as every Infidel state's fate, in its contest with Muslims, is tied to that of every other Infidel state. Tout se tient.

Hugh,

The intended successor was never intended to occupy the land…it was an unfortunate series of military events that brought about the occupation. It didn’t happen “legally, historically, morally”

Got any fields that need fertilizer? What a crock that was…” legally, historically, morally” yeah, right, pull the other one now, okay Hugh?

“..is that we now understand that these claims are based on Islam and, on the Arab supremacism of which Islam has always been the vehicle. We are threatened just as much as is Israel,”

Yes indeed, Hugh, “Repeat the empty phrases all you wish.” As long as you stand to profit from it you will continue to “sell them all about it” rattling the cages any time things calm down in the world to keep the media stirred up against your perceived foe.

The sky isn’t falling, Hugh, but you keep on with the media blitz…the bestsellers have got to keep cranking out, don’t they?

Prior to jumping on the Jihad band Wagon what did either you or Robert ever sell? Nothing is my guess…prove me wrong?

“Dhimmi watch went down in flames and was pulled back under he JW banner…times are slowly changing and you will see more of the attrition as normal real people learn the truth…not this cart load of cartoony bullshit you and Robert are selling everyone.

Truth will out…Tout tombera.

Peace
Abdullah

My goodness, this thread has fairly attracted the trolls! Is there a "Two-for-One" sale on? Michael son,don't take Hugh on-he will chew you up and spit you out in bubbles! As for so-called "Dave",well he's just a moron.

No one even mentions the walls that such countries as Egypt has erected to keep the Palestinians out (and let weapons in). Or the wall that Saudi Arabia built to keep the Yemenis out. Or any other wall around this world built. Only the wall that keeps out freaks from carrying out their suicide bombings against women and children so they (think) they will get their pathetic behinds into some sort of an orgy in the sky is ever mentioned.

http://www.israeltour4u.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/walls-of-the-world3.pps

I think the 'world' is just pathetic in this over indulgence to a people whose idiotology (misspelled on purpose) is to hate and kill, or hate and subjugate, anyone just because they don't follow their mindless idiotology too.

Isn't it amusing that the little arab-wannabee and paid liar from CAIR Dallas, abdullah mikhail, here accuses Hugh of financial gain from his efforts to debunk the lies of islam and its apologists like the self-named slave of satan?

This is the same little muhammadan worker for CAIR (how much do they pay abdullah mikhail for the garbage he posts? Anyone?) that recently said that the Quran mandates RAPE as a punishment for disobedient women!!!! LOL!

As if rape is an improvement over "scourging."

You see, the arabically-illiterate abdullah mikhail somehow got his arab paymaster to pay him for every post here at www.Jihadwatch.com. Evidently, abdullah's arab paymasters at CAIR don't realize all the damage this muhammadan moron is doing by making himself, and his cult, appear ever more foolish and brittle with each post.

reacher,

Is that so?

Then your proclaimed Super-Hugh should be able to overcome in a single bound (without resorting to cries of "Anti-Semetism!" or moral equivalence arguements or attempting to discredit the source...in other words from his own, as you describe, "bad self", refute the following:

Back in 1948 when the Zionists contacted the Iraqi Jews to repatriate back to new State of Israel, those Iraqi Jews refused...they loved living in Iraq, had freedom, life was good...they didn't need to go to the new Zionist State of Israel.

Upon their refusal what did the Zionists do?

They told them that the Arabs would take revenge on them if they didn't repatriate and warned them of "terrorism" that could take place with them as the target...so the Zionists covertly blew up some Iraqi Jews to scare them into repatriating to the New State of Israel...unfortunately for those Zionists those Iraqi Jews caught them in the act.

http://www.rense. com/general34/ cart.htm

And what pray tell were the other actions of the Zionists?

Let's read the 1948 UN Report together, shall we?


The UN Report Prepared for Ralphe Bunche
from a UN committee
01 October 1948

------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -----

The UN Report Prepared in 1948 for Ralphe Bunche, New UN Commissioner to Palestine.

Foreword: In view of the tragic assassination of Count Folke Bernadotte by identified Jewish terrorists on September 17 of this year, the following report has been prepared for the use of Dr. Bunche, Count Bernadotte's immediate replacement.

This report is a compilation of all identified terrorist attacks on British, American and Arab individuals and entities from the assassination of the British Resident Minister in the Middle East on November 6, 1944 by members of the terrorist Jewish Stern gang to the assassination of Count Bernadotte on September 17, 1948 by members of this same gang of fanatics.

This information is compiled from reports of the US Department of State, the British Foreign Office and various American and British press services.

New York, October 1, 1948

END OF EXCERPT

Hugh, start chewing... I can't wait to be converted into bubblicious floating gelatenous mass by your awesome super powers of "bullshit speak" peppered with " one sided historical reports."

: )

Peace
Abdullah

Isn't it amusing that the little arab-wannabee and paid liar from CAIR Dallas, abdullah mikhail, here accuses Hugh of financial gain from his efforts to debunk the lies of islam and its apologists like the self-named slave of satan?

This is the same little muhammadan worker for CAIR (how much do they pay abdullah mikhail for the garbage he posts? Anyone?) that recently said that the Quran mandates RAPE as a punishment for disobedient women!!!! LOL!

As if rape is an improvement over "scourging."

You see, the arabically-illiterate abdullah mikhail somehow got his arab paymaster to pay him for every post here at www.Jihadwatch.com. Evidently, abdullah's arab paymasters at CAIR don't realize all the damage this muhammadan moron is doing by making himself, and his cult, appear ever more foolish and brittle with each post.

Poor little disgruntled Yankel,

The only person who thinks that insane thought is you, dearie.

Peace
Abdullah

"Darab" (to have sexual intercourse, not to beat)

----Abdullah Mikhail

"...women are crooked, and it is up to you as the "protectors and maintainers" of your women to bend them into right shape as best you can, using beating if you see fit, but don't beat them black and blue into critical condition, because then you will break them."

----Abdullah Mikhail


Abdullah Mikhail is a PIG, a THUG, a LIAR, a HYPOCRITE.


Peace Out
Yankel

@AM

Women are crooked.....LOL!

What do they call a thuggish and sanctimonious liar and paid dissembler?

Dude, the word crooked would hardly begin to describe you. Even moron won't do. I have to call you a muhammadan, because the only incorrigible and shameless liars of your caliber have ALL, ALL been muhammadans.

islam rots the mind and heart. And you, DB, are proof!

Yankel, (audible sigh)

Poor litle Yankel...cantankerous embittered angry little Yankel... I need ot add "wrong" little Yankel. But what's new?

She in her personal vendetta against anything Muslim wants to pretend I was the author of a comment from another, a linguistic interpretation of possible meaning, which I do not agree with and have never commented on before it was posted from:

"“Al-Qur'an: a contemporary translation by Ahmed Ali, Princeton University Press, 1988; pp78-79"

Yankel, for one who likes to squeal that others are "illiterate" try reading for once and remembering what was written, alright?

My opinion has been posted here probably dozens fo times on this verse and this meaning:

"Darabha is a tap, and lightly as explained by the Prophet such that it does not even leave a mark and never on the face, he wa asked to explain it, and he held up a miswak, a tooth brush, and said, "With this." It is the last step in the series of actions prior to divorce. It does not mean "beat" in respect to what you are meaning. It can never mean that in respect to how it was explained."

"The opinion on daraba was Ahmed's not mine...my opinion has been expressed here before straight forward and it is nothing akin to what you allude to. It is exactly what I issued above and not different from it."

"Contact Ahmed if you want to discuss Arabic linguistics and his odd take on that word."

Go now and run along and pull up every reference I have ever posted on Dharabha you will not find me the author of one that is akin to your sick little projection.

I know you desperately want it to be true, along with your fantasies about CAIR... but sorry, dearie, your little soap opera is a one woman show... you.

Peace
Abdullah

AM is a man-whore, just like his prophet before him was!

Recently, AM posted a lenghty comment on another thread outlining one lie after another explaining how 9 year-old Aisha was "mature enough for sexual intercourse. Period." ..unquote. Mature enough, eh?

You are disgusting, AM, and a FILTHY LIAR who promotes perversion, too!!

His comments serve to expose just how evil Islam truly is. Headlines aside, AM offers us valuable insights into the evil Islamic mindset.

From Dave above...The poll was taken in 2003.

Oh...ancient history...do you have anything more current?

From Champ above...You are disgusting, AM, and a FILTHY LIAR who promotes perversion, too!!

He's a Mahoundian...I can't read too much of his stuff without getting an overwhelming desire to take a shower...

@AM

dharaba is not a tap, liar

dharaba is "strike violently"

the word for tap is "naqara"

You would think that allacadabra being all-knowing would know why she chose a particular word for her perfect Quran. And she (allah) sure doesn't need a paid liar from CAIR Dallas to play switcheroo with the unholy, er holy text of the Quran.

LOL!

Peace and Love
Yankel

Well Yankel,

We have your cantanerous spin on it...but what did the Prophet say about it? Hmmm? How did he explain darabha when the Sahaba asked him?

Hmmm?

Let's see you pull that up and spin that.

Go ahead...I'll slap you down when you start posting lies.

Peace
Abdullah

reacher,

Gee, I've been waiting three hours and twenty minutes for Hugh to start chewing me to bubbles on my comment posted above?

Hmmmm?

He must be gearing up his super powers for an overwheliming onsalaught of "bulshit speak" to bowl me over right out of my boots and leave me floating in bubblicious bliss.

I await to soon float as bubbles.

: )

Peace
Abdullah

The claim that the Zionists planted bombs in Baghdad was alleged by one person and has never been substantiated by any historian. Even Avi Schlaim, an Iraq Jewish and anti-Zionist historian at Cambridge said in an interview that he couldn't find a shred of evidence to support that claim.

Also, I find it hard to believe that the Iraqi Jews who had just lived through the Farhud (pogrom) of 1941 would need to be "convinced" by outsiders that their lives could be in danger from some of their neighbors.

Questions Abie Mikie will not answer -

Why did Mohammed come up with the "Night Journey" story?
It wouldn't have anything to do with the fact he spent the night alone with an unmarried women, would it?
His magical steed for the evening - doesn't it remind you of Greek or Assyrian mythology?
At the time, the "furthest mosque" was located in Arabia. Why do Muslims falsely claim that the "furthest mosque" was located in Jerusalem when Jerusalem was not in Muslim hands until long after the prophet's (BBOH) death?
There is already a "Palestinian" state in the Middle East, it's called "Jordan". Do "Palestinians" have a "right to return" to Jordan?

The only way there will be peace in the Middle East is if Muslims renounce jihad. Are you willing to do that, Abdullah Mikail? If not, why not? Are the Israelis that scary? Or are you afraid that the Muslim population in the surrounding states will notice how better off the Israeli Arabs are compared to them? How new and modern things are in Israel and how primitive and impoverished people are in Muslim countries?

Except my dull friend that there are more modern theories that do not posit such an attraction. Newton is so 17th century. Science, unlike religion, consists of theories. You have such trouble with this dullard.

The reason this nabi objects to your prescription for Israel is that you wink at genocide. This is different from saying that Begin was a pussycat. But as you say, "Heads were cracked and Deir Yassin sacked. Get over it".

nabifically yours

nabi ZK (pbum)

Questions Abie Mikie will not answer -

1.) Why did Mohammed come up with the "Night Journey" story?

It is a revelation of an actual journey. It is known that he had never travelled to Jerusalem and in the morning after the journey the Jews who had been to Jerusalem and had seen Baitul Maqdis (Masjid Al Aqsa) disbelieved him and challenged Mohammad to tell them how many doors were on the building. He told them the correct answer.

2.) His magical steed for the evening - doesn't it remind you of Greek or Assyrian mythology?

It was not a mythological story but a report on an actual event.

3) At the time, the "furthest mosque" was located in Arabia.

Jerusalem is not Arabia. Baitul Maqdis was built forty years after Masjid Al Harram by Ibrahim. It has always been the furthest Mosque…there is only confusion on this fact in people like you.

4) Why do Muslims falsely claim that the "furthest mosque" was located in Jerusalem when Jerusalem was not in Muslim hands until long after the prophet's (BBOH) death?

Ibrahim was a Muslim and he built Masjid Al Aqsa (Baitul Maqdis) himself. In it God was worshipped from day one. The furthest Mosque was built by the same person who built Masjid Al Harram.

4) There is already a "Palestinian" state in the Middle East, it's called "Jordan". Do "Palestinians" have a "right to return" to Jordan?

Why not ask the “king” or Jordan? Oh, I forgot, there is not supposed to be a king in Islam, is there? Or why not ask the Romans about Phillistine… they so named it after clearing out a rebellion.

5) The only way there will be peace in the Middle East is if Muslims renounce jihad. Are you willing to do that, Abdullah Mikail? If not, why not?

When you have no idea what Jihad encompasses and what it truly is you have no idea what it is you are saying. We both know what you are meaning, but that is not all that Jihad encompasses…so no, knowing what Jihad is as I do and what its full meaning is, I will never renounce Jihad.

6) Are the Israelis that scary? Or are you afraid that the Muslim population in the surrounding states will notice how better off the Israeli Arabs are compared to them? How new and modern things are in Israel and how primitive and impoverished people are in Muslim countries?

It does not matter what those who commit genocide do or build on the bones of those they murdered… in the end is their recompense and in the end is ours.

Is hell not that scary that you feel genocide and murder for dirt is worth it?

Have all the dirt you want… it won’t buy your way out of hell.

Any more Questions?

Peace
Abdullah

@AM

Since muhammad wrote the quran, and since muhammad used the word "dharaba," it is clear that islam regards women as crooked and in need of physical punishment. Severe punishment. That is why "dharaba" gets properly translated by muhammadans as "scourge."

Don't trot out some hadith to mitigate what the Quran says.

You're a liar, and now you're trying to spin your way out of it.

Peace
Yankel

Zonie,

Absolutely! Culturally speaking, a man after my own heart,

"Heads got cracked, cities got sacked...get over it."

But on the whole scientific excuse in which you try to exonerate yourself for squirming out of admitting to the fact that there is an inherent attraction of mass to mass that is constant...well, I feel you only went through those gymnastics because you knew the logical path I was opening up in the arguement with you and you refused on principal to admit to the truth in order to avoid having to go down that path.

Am I right, oh Zonie one?

: )

Peace
Abdullah

Ahhh poor little Yankel,

Knows she is defeated.

The explanation is in print has been for many centuries.

Paraphrased, ( simplified for your benefit):

"Explain the darabha."
"The light tap,"
"With what?,"
"Whith this, miswak, (a toothbrush)"
"How?"
"Such that it does not hurt, does not even leave a red mark"

Well, Yankel, my cantankerous little squirmer... seems the description of the meaning from Mohammad is quite clear.

Doesn't it?

We'll cover it once more in an even simpler manner, okay?

You do seem to have some trouble remembering paragraphs...oh, and fantasiszing about conspiracies...so we'll truncate ewven more for just you:

"With what?"
"This, a miswak."
"How?"
"Light tap,"
"does not hurt,"
"does not even make a mark,"

Any more drivel from you on this matter?

Peace
Abdullah

Abie - You forgot to "answer" the question about Mohammed's "relevation" being a tall tale to distract his angry followers from the fact that he was in an unmarried women's house for the night.

"It is a revelation of an actual journey. It is known that he had never travelled to Jerusalem and in the morning after the journey the Jews who had been to Jerusalem and had seen Baitul Maqdis (Masjid Al Aqsa) disbelieved him and challenged Mohammad to tell them how many doors were on the building. He told them the correct answer."

How do you know that Mohammed didn't learn the number of doors from a third party? Before his career as a caravan raider, Mohammed led a number of caravans to the north, he could have run into any number of fellow traders who had been to Jerusalem. There also exists the possibility that Mohammed told a fib about not having been to Jerusalem. He encouraged taquiyya among his followers, it is not improbable that he may have used taquiyya from time to time.

"Ibrahim was a Muslim and he built Masjid Al Aqsa (Baitul Maqdis) himself. In it God was worshipped from day one. The furthest Mosque was built by the same person who built Masjid Al Harram."

That doesn't answer my question. The "furthest mosque" at the time Mohammed told his story (sorry, his "relevation") was not located in Jerusalem. Why do Muslems insist that the Temple Mount is the "furthest mosque" of Mohammed's dream?

"Why not ask the “king” or Jordan? Oh, I forgot, there is not supposed to be a king in Islam, is there? Or why not ask the Romans about Phillistine… they so named it after clearing out a rebellion."

Again, you are missing my point. There is no need for the establishment of a terrorist state next to Israel. The "Palestinian" state of Jordan already exists. In fact, Jordan ceded the West Bank to the state of Israel. By the by, since Ibrahim refused to commit human sacrifice, he cannot be a Muslim. Muslim are more than willing to sacrifice any human being (or Muslim) to further the goals of Allah.

"When you have no idea what Jihad encompasses and what it truly is you have no idea what it is you are saying. We both know what you are meaning, but that is not all that Jihad encompasses…so no, knowing what Jihad is as I do and what its full meaning is, I will never renounce Jihad."

I have seen many examples of the warlike nature of Jihad. I have seen no example of the so-called "inner" jihad. Besides the practice of any other form of jihad does not justify the 270 million people killed during the 1400 years of Islamic Jihad.

"Are the Israelis that scary? Or are you afraid that the Muslim population in the surrounding states will notice how better off the Israeli Arabs are compared to them? How new and modern things are in Israel and how primitive and impoverished people are in Muslim countries?"

Once again, you did not answer these questions. Are the Israelis that scary, ex cetera?

Here is another question - Was it halal for Mohammed to spend the night with an unmarried Muslim woman?


Am I right, oh Zonie one?...

Not to further derail this thread but no. This is not an attempt to avoid the obvious. It is a demonstration that the obvious is sometimes lacking. The nabi is not surprised that one who believes that the night journey was a fact and that genies are real would have trouble with the basic concept that Science is not a quest for absolute truth but rather a method of investigation and that Scientific theories, even Newton's "Law of Gravity", are only the best thing going right now, eagerly to be replaced when a better explanation comes along. Otherwise said, your "attraction between masses", does it propagate at infinite speed, as Newton's theory asserts?
The nabific one posts this only for you to ponder. Please do not respond since this is not germane to the topic of this thread.

But no.

Your friend in rational thought

nabi ZK (pbum)

Just keep grinding the corn.

Yankel, I think I've figured that Michael MacKay is paid by CAIR not by the comment,but for successfully hi-jacking whatever thread he slinks on to. Just a thought because he very seldom sticks to the subject in question. Anyway, He was born Michael MacKay and he will die Michael MacKay, the bit in between will be between himself and The Lord Jesus.I can't believe he really believes that guff about old Mo and his magic flying donkey though.

He really does not answer people. Also, the emotional development seems to be on a par with someone still in middle school, and no more.

"...the emotional development seems to be on a par with someone still in middle school, and no more."
Worry01


Also, the moral development of Abdullah Mikhail is the same as someone in La Cosa Nostra.

Abdullah brags that islam is a "natural" religion allowing him to hate his enemies and avenge wrong but be nice to his friends, and he gets to beat his wife, but not so hard that it leaves her black and blue.
=====================
Here we see why Jesus message is as true today as ever:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Matthew 5:43-48

26% of Israelis think the U.S. is the second biggest threat in the Mideast?
Hey, that's awful close to the percentage of the Arab population in Israel.

tanstaafl,

tanstaafl you wrote “That doesn't answer my question.
The "furthest mosque" at the time Mohammed told his story (sorry, his "relevation") was not located in Jerusalem. Why do Muslems insist that the Temple Mount is the "furthest mosque" of Mohammed's dream?”

Masjid Al Aqsa in Jerusalem- it was built 40 years after Masjid Al Haram…you are confused.

tanstaafl you wrote “I have seen many examples of the warlike nature of Jihad. I have seen no example of the so-called "inner" jihad..."

Because you feed your mind on pages like JW, no doubt. The Greater Jihad is all of Islam, the Lesser Jihad is contained within it…yes, it probably affects those who encounter it more than the other…but that does not change the fact that one is a very small part of the other.

""Besides the practice of any other form of jihad does not justify the 270 million people killed during the 1400 years of Islamic Jihad.”

Again another one of you whoops out that fantasy 270 M number... I call bull shit. That's just some politically motivated number that someone dreamed up to use in arguements...prove it.

tanstaafl you wrote “Here is another question - Was it halal for Mohammed to spend the night with an unmarried Muslim woman?”

What on earth are you going on about? Source reference, please?

“By the by, since Ibrahim refused to commit human sacrifice, he cannot be a Muslim. Muslim are more than willing to sacrifice any human being (or Muslim) to further the goals of Allah.”

Ibrahim did not refuse any order from God. Again, you are confused, or projecting your own opinion without any support from scholarly research.

tanstaafl you wrote “Again, you are missing my point. There is no need for the establishment of a terrorist state next to Israel. The "Palestinian" state of Jordan already exists. In fact, Jordan ceded the West Bank to the state of Israel.”

No, I understood your point…you missed mine. There is not supposed to be in Islam a “king” of Jordan, is there? But you keep painting it as “Palestinian” state…it’s not… it’s a monarchy set up by men.

tanstaafl you wrote “Once again, you did not answer these questions. Are the Israelis that scary, ex cetera?”

What are you on about? The Israelis are actually creamed every time they go head to head with other soldiers…it’s only under the cover of heavy air and heavy armor that they ever get anywhere.

They get their asses kicked out in the street toe to toe…so I guess they aren’t scary at all. Cowardly? Yeah, you could say they are cowardly…but scarey, no, not at all.

Peace
Abdullah

Yankel,

There you go picking cherries...did you forget Jesus drove the money lenders from the temple with a whip?

Then there is this,

Matthew 10:34 (King James Version)

34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

Gospel of Luke 12:51

51 "Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division;"

Luke 14:26
"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple."

These are what your book claims Jesus said...care to expound upon that? didn't sound like "love your neighbor" stuff to me.

Peace
Abdullah

hey dave742, did you see that your friend Abdullah Mikail believes that Mohammed literally flew on a flying animal resembling a donkey or mule for approximately 750 miles in the 7th century A.D.?


I recommend that you listen this song,from the Infidels album, play it f* loud.And if you can get all the outtakes there are out there, go get them.And play them lout too.

You can find it here:

http://www.dylannl.nl/Outtakes-1983/1467-1983-04/05-Complete-Infidels-sessions/View-details.html

And to that ape that says something about the persians being dont know what: the Light of Greek swept you out of the map for ever.You belong to the Dark forces of this universe.


Neighborhood Bully
Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man,
His enemies say he's on their land.
They got him outnumbered about a million to one,
He got no place to escape to, no place to run.
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully just lives to survive,
He's criticized and condemned for being alive.
He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin,
He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in.
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land,
He's wandered the earth an exiled man.
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn,
He's always on trial for just being born.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized,
Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad.
The bombs were meant for him.
He was supposed to feel bad.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him,
'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac.
He's the neighborhood bully.

He got no allies to really speak of.
What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love.
He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace,
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease.
Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly.
To hurt one they would weep.
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Every empire that's enslaved him is gone,
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon.
He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand,
In bed with nobody, under no one's command.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Now his holiest books have been trampled upon,
No contract he signed was worth what it was written on.
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth,
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health.
He's the neighborhood bully.

What's anybody indebted to him for?
Nothin', they say.
He just likes to cause war.
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed,
They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed.
He's the neighborhood bully.

What has he done to wear so many scars?
Does he change the course of rivers?
Does he pollute the moon and stars?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill,
Running out the clock, time standing still,
Neighborhood bully.

CHOI:
You're right. I read it wrong. You should probably take an anger management class. I still love you, and so does Jesus.

Ladies and gentlemen

the story posted here, is important. Know why? Because no less than three of our Mohammedtrolls - shall I refer to them as Dementors or as Boggarts? their conduct partakes of both - have turned up to lie and deny and boast and sneer and threaten and, at all costs, to hijack the thread and distract the visitors to this site, from reading and reflecting upon the ludicrous, the blackly farcical spectacle of an Egyptian Mohammedan declaring (if he did indeed declare - after all, it seems to be Iran saying that he said that) that Israel is a greater threat than Islamic Iran.

As for the contemptible - indeed, the stomach-turning - Jew-hatred abundantly displayed by the Slave of allah, Abdullah Mikail:

it suffices to consider, for example, this absolutely typical piece of Jew-hatred expressed by a Moroccan Muslim 'theologian' al-Maghili, in the late 15th century.

"Love of the Prophet requires hatred of Jews".

At the time that that was written, the Jewish state of Israel did not exist. It would not exist for another *five* centuries. Jews within dar al Islam were a tiny, despised, ruthlessly exploited, oppressed, and in some places (Yemen, Kurdistan) virtually-enslaved minority. And yet hate, hate, hate was periodically whipped up against them, and poured out upon them, by Muslim gang bosses and by howling Muslim mobs.

His furphy about how wonderful things were for the Jews of Iraq under the Muslim boot and scimitar, may be exploded by considering, for example, the story of Hannah Menashe:

http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/CdaArticlePrintPreview/1,2506,L-3554723,00.html

"Fifty-five years after she was abducted from her family's home in Baghdad by her Muslim neighbor and forced to renounce her Judaism, Hannah Menashe managed to flee Iraq and find her way to one of Israel’s European embassies. Her long, exhausting journey is finally coming to an end these days, as she will soon be reunited with he family in Israel, who thought her murdered all these years."

There is one simple and sufficient explanation for the rage and fury of the Mohammedans at the very idea that Israel - the homeland and state of the despised Jews, many of whom are descended from Jews who lived as downtrodden minorities in Muslim lands - should possess the most powerful weapons in the world.

It is because non-Muslims, whether Jews or anybody else, are NOT SUPPOSED to resist Muslim attack. Under the Rules for Dhimmis, a dhimmi - a non-Muslim living in Muslim lands - had *no* right of self-defence whatsoever. He must 'NEVER strike a Muslim'. This meant - and many outside observers witnessed it, and reported on it - that a Muslim could walk up to a dhimmi, taunt him, call him names, spit in his face, shove him into the gutter, kick him in the guts, take his wife or daughter and rape her, steal his property, shove a knife in his ribs...and he was supposed to submit to such utter vileness, without a squeak of protest, and without making even the smallest move to defend himself and stop or punish the attacker. One western observer saw Muslims kick and punch and knock to the ground a dhimmi who was a *pregnant woman*.

Complaint to non-Muslim powers outside of the Muslim lands, was *punished* as 'treachery'. And within Muslim lands there was NO justice for a dhimmi: for the word of a Muslim ALWAYS trumped that of a non-Muslim in court. And dhimmis were forbidden either to own or bear arms.

Muslim supremacism cannot abide the idea of any Infidel, anywhere, having either the right or the means to resist or to punish Muslim aggression against said Infidels.

Muslims appear to believe that they have the right to do unto others (up to and including torture and murder purely for fun and profit), but that they, the lordly Muslims, should NEVER be done to. Such a complete rejection of the principle of reciprocity, is both mind-boggling to observe, and infinitely disgusting to any decent human being.

Hesperado,

I believe in more than that.

I believe in God, in heaven, in hell, in the angels, the Prophets, Ibliss, the Djinn, and the unseen that only God knows...I believe in all of it witout having to have it brought before me as proof. This is called faith.

That you poke fun at it is no suprise...there are many people who deny it and belittle those who believe in it...

It does not matter in life that you do this, we'll settle up later. Until then, enjoy your laugh.

Peace
Abdullah

dunbledoresarmy:
"ludicrous, the blackly farcical spectacle of an Egyptian Mohammedan declaring ...that Israel is a greater threat than Islamic Iran."

Although Choi pointed out that I read something wrong, my point that Europe sees Israel as a bigger threat stands. Most in the world see Israel as the bigger threat, because most in the world are not subject to US propaganda.

Abie
If you won't answer the questions, you won't answer them.

The 270 million dead is an estimate from Nonie Darwash. What figure do you estimate? Two hundred million? Three hundred million? Did any kuffars die? How come no one died during the spread of Buddhism? What does killing unbelievers have to do with religion? Is Islam really a religion or does it have more in common with a violent political movement?

dda,

Are you smoking crack? Because you gotta be high to post this:

"As for the contemptible - indeed, the stomach-turning - Jew-hatred abundantly displayed by the Slave of allah, Abdullah Mikail:"

"Jew-hatered?"

I only oppose Zionists...those who believe they have a divine right to land that others are indigenous on and have not ever abandoned.

The majority of the tribes of Israel vacated Palestine and were gone from it for 400 years as they were in Egypt with Joseph. Then they left and returned, refusing to follow Moses into Cannan...eveyrone knows the story...it is no secret. Multiple times they were deposed by other imperial forces and cast out...diaspora they were. Only recently have they returned as a people and under much cloud of suspicion and terrorism re-established a state of their own, voila, we have the modern state of Israel.

Opposing Zionism does not quate to "Jew hatred" in the minds of the civilized and rational...if you feel this way, feel free, it's a free country.

Israelis have as much right as any other nation to security, yet they also have the burden of abiding by international law which they don't.

Oppossing Zionism is not racism or Jew hatred, despite what you think.

By all means, dig up some popular fantasy film or novel with which you can base your motives and values of life upon...

All the same...

Peace
Abdullah

It is curious how Islamics rage rave against Israel (see Abu Mikail's rambling posts, unworthy of response, IMO) but they do not rail against Greece, Bulgaria, Austria, Sicily, Crimea, or France and Spain, all former Dar-al-Islam regions reconquered back into civilization, so now they are again part of Dar-al-Harb. Why only israel, which had lived under a 'state of siege' for six decades and still survives, which makes Islamics rage raving mad?

There is no "violation of international law." Israel was formed by international law: "In November 1947 the United Nations decided on partition of Palestine into a Jewish state, an Arab state, and a UN-administered Jerusalem."

This tiny state in western Asia has managed to survive in a sea of Islamic hostility by guarding its borders and water resources against those who send missiles and suicide bombers to kill their people. It has survived at the price of having to continually be in 'siege mode' against Arabs who five times a day swear Israel's destruction. But they don't do this for all the other lands lost. Is this not paradoxical? Yes, until one understands that they were beaten back from Europe with decisive force and ran back to their Asian borders licking their wounds. This has not yet happened in Israel because of the UN/PC/MC/MSM mandated requirement that Israel not use excessive force but answer attacks against them in an even manner, as we saw in the Hezbollah war. As soon as Israel hits hard, a howl rises from all sides that they should moderate their response. "A UN-administered Jerusalem?" This is crazy.

The UN mandate gave the Arabs their state, Palestine and its agitated 'Palestinians' which they turned into a nightmare. So they had always cast an evil envious eye on the Israelis who turned their desert into a thriving oasis, even within a hostile bareness under siege. Forget all the stuff about what land G*d gave to whom. Israel exists, on any level, by right. But the irrational raging and ravings will continue until there is maximum force used to silence it, deadly force, decisively. Iran is poised to deliver rationale for doing so. When the mushroom clouds erupt over western Asia, watch those howling Cassandras in the UN/PC/MC/MSM fall silent.

tanstaafl,

You must have went to the same school as Hesperado where they teach:

"If the answer does not fit your pre-conceived notion of what the answer should be, and thus it does not provide you segue to your next arguement point, then simply deny you were given an answer at all."

or

"Ask a question that requires an essay answer in order to address all aspects of the question, but demand a yes or no answer. Then when one isn't given, deny the answer was ever given."


tanssafil you wrote "The 270 million dead is an estimate from Nonie Darwash."

Oh yeah, what a credible source that is.


"What figure ... (snip) insert blah blah blah"

The focus is the politically motivated lie of 270 M. I say it is a lie... you are unable to prove otherwise.

Even in the modern computer age in the last 75 years the margin of error on the dead from WWII ranges from something like 40 million to 90 million.

Oopps! Did my WWII estimate miss by 90 MILLLION!!! Gee, I must have carried a decimal place too many...

Let's put it into context...

Over 1,400 years ago, counting after the initial 2,500 or so deathe ON BOTH SIDES of the line, believer non believer, we can start.

Okay, now show me the tally for this battle, now that battle, now this skirmish... well, I know there are no really credible records...let's believe what the vanquished said! Yeah, we'll put it at a GAGILLLION killed by the bad guys.

Yeah, its farcical, but not far off the mark.

There is no way a nyumber spread across 1,400 years of conflict can be anywhere near accurate when we can't even get closer than 90,000,000 margin of error just 75 years ago.

Use your brain and not your gut to think with. Okay?

Peace
Abdullah

Battle of tours,

"Why only israel"

Derp? This is a Zionist blog, sponsored by David Horoqitz of FPM magazine and many of of the crying and whining chutzpa articles have Israel as the topic.

What in heck are we supossed to oppose here, pickle sales at ball games?

: )

Use your brain...damn, if knowing is half the battle and you are on the front lines, God help the people you are suppossed to be protecting.

: )

Peace
Abdullah

Battle of tours, you wrote "It has survived at the price "

I'll tell you the price, and form just the US alone,

188,000,000,000 dollars of our US tax money, that is the price tag at least for our small part.

What has the rest of the world dumped into that money pit never seeing a penny returned?

Couldn't say... I only care about my taxes that are wasted there...

Peace
Abdullah

'dave' (our resident shiite Muslim propagandist whose real name is, perhaps, dawood?)

claims that 'Europeans' are right to see Israel - tiny little Israel, with no oil money - as a greater threat than hysterically-raging and threatening and lying Islamic Iran, and that anyone who doesn't see it that way, is merely a victim of 'US propaganda'.

Europeans of course have been subjected for at least fifty years to a massive petrodollar-funded barrage of Arab/Muslim propaganda (a barrage eagerly assisted, in the immediate postwar period, by former Nazis such as Goebbels' academic protege Johann von Leers who converted to Islam all the better to hate Jews, and then, during the 1950s-1980s, by some funding and ideas from the Soviets; but Muslims did not learn their visceral hatred of Jews either from the Nazis or from Communist Russia, it is native to Islam, as is amply demonstrated by the mountain of textual, legal and historical evidence collected by Andrew Bostom in his 'Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism').

In French sociologist Jacques Ellul's illuminating book, 'Un Chretien Pour Israel', there is an entire chapter entitled 'Propagande' (Propaganda), devoted to the dissection of that Arab/Muslim propaganda campaign against Israel. I commend Ellul's book to any new non-Muslim Francophone visitor here. One must bear in mind that Jacques Ellul was a professional anatomist of propaganda, which he cordially despised in all its forms, whether Muslim or non-Muslim, communist or non-communist; indeed, he wrote one of the classic textbooks on the subject, entitled in French 'Propagandes' and in English, 'Propaganda'.


Jacques Ellul again, warning that the Muslim world was preparing a second Shoah

"Cette gloire promise et assuree a Israel ne doit pas non plus faire oublier l'horrible aventure des Temps presents: a la fois la Shoa commise par les nazis et celle preparee par les musulmans."
- 'This glory that is promised and assured to Israel ought not at all to make us forget the awful affaire of the present Age: both the Shoah that the Nazis committed, and that which the Musllims have prepared' - from 'Theologie Chretienne pour le Peuple d'Israel', p. 163.

Benny Morris has warned of it also, but the western world refuses to listen:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1167467762531&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull

My favourite Jewish cartoonist, defiantly hoping:

http://drybonesblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/sukkot-continuity.html

Am Yisrael Chai.


I think people who are really interested in the Jews of Iraq before 1948 should speak to some of them. My friend's family remembers the attacks, the pogrom, breaking down their front door, running up to the roof, going over to the adjoining roof and escaping, being the lucky ones who did, as so many did not. Mobs of Iraqi Muslims, including army officers and police, came to kill the Iraqi Jewish population on June 1, 1941. This was not an isolated event. Here again the Muslims shot themselves in the foot. Most of those Jews had no choice. They headed straight for Israel, where no one would come to their doors at night to lynch them for being Jews. They helped to build the state into the powerhouse that it is. And so another chapter of Muslim intolerance and abusiveness turned against them. They are good at pogroms, blowing things up, shooting down Buddhists and children in cold blood, setting fire to churches, Hindu temples, and Jewish holy sites, yet they always lose the wars, and they will lose the big war that is coming. They could have heaven on earth if they were only content to be grateful for all the riches they have acquired, yet again and again they choose to create a hell by demanding every last bit for themselves.

Battle_of_Tours,

"But they don't do this for all the other lands lost. Is this not paradoxical?"

Your point is mostly good, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that Muslims don't pray, yearn, and probably plot to retake those other parts of the Ex-Dar-al-Islam: it's just that for now, they have decided to focus on Israel, because of their inveterate and scripted Jew-hatred, as well as because it is proving to be a useful galvanizing tool for them.

Also, the Muslims who are not dim bulbs (and some of them are clever) have noticed over the decades what dave742 points out, which is correct: most of Europe is anti-Israel (save for certain key heads of state and I think a large minority, not majority, of the populace). I would go even further than dave742: the majority of the entire West is anti-Israel and at best sees them as a hindrance to the "peace process", at worst as more of a threat than Muslim states. Clever Muslims probably have not been able to believe their luck at having their own propaganda reflected in the West itself. It wasn't this bad before. It has been a steady process of erosion, with a nascent anti-Semitism growing and growing with each passing decade, revealing an ugly face behind the slipping mask of "oh, I am only anti-Zionist, not anti-Jew".

So for now, and for the last few decades, Israel provides Muslims with a handy focus for harnessing their global revival. Meanwhile, the Bad Cops among them are given license to plan and execute a razzia or two elsewhere (New York, London, Bali, Madrid, Mumbai), just to keep the fires stoking -- and knowing they can get away with it because most the West is stupid enough to think that the Good Cop Muslims have no collusion with the Bad Cops.

dumbledoresarmy,

The anti-Israel attitude prevalent in Europe (and throughout the West, I think) is not just a matter of Westerners passively receiving Muslim propaganda and then changing their minds to become anti-Israel. You may not have intended to convey that, but that's the impression I got from reading your comment above re: Ellul. I am not denying the massive project of Muslim propaganda. What I am supplementing, however, is the fact that the West would never have been receptive to that propaganda in sufficiently large numbers without a predisposing worldview -- and that worldview is not necessarily reducible to some retro-anti-Semitism rearing its head again. There are other factors involved as well, not the least of which being the dogma of reverse racism interlocked with the Noble Savage idea, and as part of this, the conception of Jews as "Honorary Whites" -- meaning, Honorary Oppressors of non-whites (regardless of rationality -- we are not dealing with rational people here) and therefore as the villains against a People who have become the #1 Ethnic Minority of the world to be protected at all cost from our own Western demons. Etc.

"Israel is the number one threat to the Middle East given the nuclear arms it possesses," ElBaradei was quoted as saying."

I guess Pakistan is a close second, considering the nuclear arms THEY have, right?

Also, it's fun to watch Hugh and AM fight.

I have never heard of Israel saying things like "we'll drive the Arabs into the sea" or "if only Jordan (or Lebanon, or Egypt, or Saudi Arabia) didn't exist we'd have peace.

But, I have heard of Arabs saying these things.

Abdullah,

OT, but I had a question from a previous post that you didn't answer:

How, exactly, is female circumcision (removal of the clitoris) medically beneficial to the woman?

(Also, you apparently are unaware that the medical profession actually use the terms "female circumcision" and "female genital mutlilation" INTERCHANGEABLY:

"Reproductive Health and Human Rights: Integrating Medicine, Ethics, and law" (Oxford University Press. p.262) discussing female circumcision/FGM:

"The terminology used to describe this procedure varies. The term 'female circumcision' has been used historically. However, as the harm that such procedures caused to girls and women became increasingly recognized, and because this procedure in whatever form it is practiced is not at all analogous to male circumcision, the term 'female circumcision' gave way to the term 'female genital mutilation'"

Interesting article, dda, but there are some omission worth mentioning. It is not as gloomy as the prof portrayed. There will be no 'Second Holocaust'. Regarding:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=3&cid=1167467762531&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull


1. Iran is sandwiched between Iraq and Afghanistan, so it is already vulnerable strategically. This is a very long term military plan.

2. As the 1967 war showed, Arabs are famously incapable with dealing with realistic strategic organization, and they lie to each other and themselves; they're losers.

3. The article's scenario had already been rehearsed by war rooms around the western world, not a surprise really. I expect response scenarios are programed in already, especially in Israeli war rooms.

4. Israel has Minuteman missiles to knock incoming out of the sky, which they will use once Iranian missiles leave their silos, probably to explode close to their gantry.

5. We had been playing 'cat and mouse' with Iran with those endless diplomatic overtures (ObieOne is no dummy), but that is a smokescreen; when time comes and Europeans are sufficiently alarmed, we will act in concert.

6. Iran's mullahs will gamble on Allah coming to their rescue, since they know they will be hit hard, and put all their chips on the returned 'occluded' Mahdi. Surprise! Nobody there. This is the 21st century, not the 12th; they're fighting from a 12th century desert caravan raiders paradigm, take hostages for ransom, or kill them. No good.

7. Even if one Iranian missile managed, despite their sloppy aim, to actually hit Israel and cause serious "Holocaust" casualties, the whole Arab Islamic world would have earned eternal condemnation from all countries, even the bleeding heart liberals. That's "check mate" for them.


So it is not as gloomy as the writer portrayed, though it is 'useful' to portray it as "hopeless" for public consumption. Still, Iran in possession of nukes is a problem.

Let them fire the first shot... Hey, self defense! ... Everybody saw it.

If I may add a PS to the above post:

...
8. Maybe the mullahs hadn't thought this through very well, or they're addicted gamblers, but if their venture fails, this is curtains on the whole Islamic world, their own Iran theocracy included. No wonder Saudi Arabia is worried... They probably understand better than others what is at stake here. They might as well hire Dubhai to execute Plan B for Mecca, and open it as a tourist attraction. Iran's destruction puts the whole Islamic world on notice, from Morocco to Indonesia, and Jihad be damned.


The sooner the West gets off their oil addiction, the better. The sun shines on the whole planet, and modern solar film technology has gotten very efficient, so what are they waiting for?

Don't feed the trolls it just encourages them and gives them more creditability than they/it deserves.

AND

Mat 7:6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces."

حصيرة 7:6 "لا تعطوا الكلاب ما هو مقدس ؛ لا رمي بك اللؤلؤ للخنازير. إذا قمت بذلك ، فإنها قد تدوس عليها تحت أقدامهم ، ومن ثم تحويل المسيل للدموع ، وكنت الى قطع".

It's late in the day, but here are a few more samples of evidence, out of an overwhelming corpus, to illustrate the inveterate Jew hatred inherent within Islam:

1. Shaykh Ahmad Sirhindi (1564-1624): Whenever a Jew is killed, it is for the betterment of Islam.
(From Yohanan Friedman, Shaykh Ahmad Sirhindi: An Outline of His Thought and a Study of His Image in the Eyes of Posterity (Montreal: McGill University, Institute of Islamic Studies, 1971), pp. 73-74

2. Al-Jaubari (d. 1222): Know that these people are the most cunning creatures, the vilest, most unbelieving and hypocritical. While ostensibly the most humble and miserable, they are in fact the most vicious of men. This is the very essence of rascality and accursedness. If they remain alone with a man, they destroy him. They offer sleep-inducing food, they slay him. They compound black henbane seed, ear wax, and wild onion, one particle of each, then insert it in some food. He who partakes of it, immediately falls asleep. The they seize him and kill him. Understand this. They are the most ubelieving and perfidious of men. So beware of their company. They have no belief or religion. This is the description of the learned of the Jewish liars...
(Excerpts from Ch. 5 of al-Mukhtar fi kashf al-asrar: "To Disclose the Fraudulence of the Jewish Men of Learning" - English translation by Moshe Perlmann in "Notes on the Position of Jewish Physicians in Medieval Muslim Countries," Israel Oriental Studies 2 (1972): 316-317

3. Ghazi al-Wasiti (fl. 1292): In the days of the Abbasid al-Ma'mun, some Jew advanced to such a position that he would sit in a higher place than the nobles. So a distinguished Muslim devised a strategem and wrote a note to al-Ma'mun with the following verse:

O son of him o whom all men were obedient,
Whose law was a binding duty,
Lo, the man whom you honor
Is - this writer claims - a liar!

Al-Ma'mun replied: 'You have spoken truly and have proven your devotion!" The Jew was immediately drowned.
(Source: al-Wasiti, Kitab Radd 'ala Ahl al-Dhimma, ed. R. Gottheil, Journal of the American Oriental Society 41, no. 5 (1921), 396-97).

4. Al-Jahiz (776-868/869): I shall begin to enumerate the causes which made the Christians more liked by the masses than the (Zoroastrians), and made men consider them more sincere than the Jews, more endeared, less treacherous, less unbelieving, and less deserving of punishment. For all this there are manifold and evident causes. They are patent to one who searches for them, concealed to one who shuns investigation.
....When the (Muslim) Emigrants (from Mecca) became the neighbors of the Jews (in Medina)...the Jews began to envy the Muslims the blessings of their new faith, and the union which resulted after dissension. They proceeded to undermine the belief of our (i.e. the Muslim) masses, and to lead them astray. They aided our enemies and those envious of us. From mere misleading speech and stinging words they plunged into an open declaration of enmity, so that the Muslims mobilized their forces, exerting themselves morally and materially to banish the Jews and destroy them....That was the first cause of our dislike of the Jews, and our partiality toward the Christians....

.....Our people (the Muslims) observing thus the occupations of the Jews and the Christians concluded that the religion of the Jews must compare unfavorably as do their professions, and their unbelief must be the foulest of all, since they are the filthiest of all nations. Why the Christians, ugly as they are, are physically less repulsive than the Jews may be explained by the fact that the Jews, by not intermarrying, have intensified the offensiveness of their features...
(Source: From his "A reply to the Christians," trans. Joshua Finkel in "A Risala of Al-Jahiz," Journal of the American Oriental Society 47 (1927); 311-334. Extracts from pp. 322-24, 326, 327-8)

All of above sourced from The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism by Andrew Bostom (Prometheus Books, Amherst, New York, 2008)

Note that these excerpts date from between the ninth and seventeenth century C.E. - hundreds of years before the advent of Zionism as a political movement. And let's throw in a well-known hadith here as well, especially for the edification of any newcomers to this site who have yet to be convinced of the inherently antisemitic nature of Islam:
Judgment Day will come only when the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them, until the Jew hides behind the tree and the stone, and the tree and the stone say: O Muslim, O servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him - except for the gharqad tree, which is the tree of the Jews." Sahih Muslim, Book 41, No.6985

I'm a bit late on this one... But in Hugh's absence (and my own poor debating skills) here goes.

AbdullahMikail wrote: "Then your proclaimed Super-Hugh should be able to overcome in a single bound (without resorting to cries of "Anti-Semetism!" or moral equivalence arguements or attempting to discredit the source...in other words from his own, as you describe, "bad self", refute the following...
http://www.rense.com/general34/cart.htm"

Let's have a look at this article:
"I won't dwell on September 11, which I think was perpetrated by the CIA and Mossad."
"Similarly women have been scrammed (sic) by feminism."
"We live in a world where 5% of the people, (i.e. Rockefellers, Rothschilds, Windsors etc.) control 95% of the wealth. From their perspective, we are squatters. They manage us by controlling our belief systems.
They sponsored Communism, Zionism and Feminism to create division and advance their plan for world government."
"The cartel set up Communism as a government monopoly and model for their New World Order."

Normally I would quote other articles from the same author to further establish credentials. I will not as his website is both rambling insanity and bigotry (honestly, pick your minority).

This, AbdullahMikail, is your evidence to back your argument?!? Weak. Flimsy, I say. You have the actions of one who regurgitates the thoughts of those who back his argument, regardless of their intellect, sanity, honesty or qualifications. You reject those who disagree, despite THEIR intellect, sanity, honesty and qualifications.

You would have us reject the evidence of our own eyes when it comes to Jihad. You would call it Lesser Jihad. Fine. Semantics. It wasn't semantics that have killed and are killing so many in New York, Madrid, London, Bali, Jakarta, Thailand, the Philippines, Sudan, and yes, Iraq and Afghanistan. And it isn't semantics that launched a new round of rockets into Israel from Gaza this last week.

Let's try the shoe on the other foot. And I'll take a long answer here. Don't worry, I can read just fine.

What would be an appropriate response to an Israeli rocket attack on an Islamic country?

and in further developments.....the US Navy sunk a Japanese midget submarine that was touring the waters off Oahu thereby igniting WWII and incurring the wrath of a flight of Japanese fighters/bombers that were engaged in an excercise off the coast of the island...we now return you to our previously scheduled program....../sarc off

Abdula M. about Muhamet's night flight to Jerusalem on the back of Buraq

It is a revelation of an actual journey.

Absolutely! Who can doubt that.
The event was even immortalized in the popular saying: "When pigs fly".

Basically, what he does is what is preached in Islam. He lies (perfectly permissible), obfuscates, ignores what he cannot answer and answers with another question to deflect his inability. He refuses to accept something more.

HYPOTHETICALLY, let us assume that Mohammed was the perfect man, his teachings also perfect. (Hard to swallow, I know, but bear with me). The fact of the matter is that in all Muslim countries and societies, the woman isn't beat with a "toothbrush", she is beaten to within a fraction of her life, if not to death. The term "honor killing" can mean ANYTHING which is perceived to insult Islam or Mohammed. That leaves a lot of wiggle room, which is liberally used by the proponents of Islam.

No matter if we published tens of thousands of pages of incontrovertible truth about what Islam is all about, Muslims would simply deny it as if it weren't in front of their faces. They can't, that is how severely brainwashed they are from birth. They simply are not mentally capable of believing all they have been taught is wrong, and their inbred hatred of anything not Islam self propagates. The face of evil could not be more clear.

You see, it is easier to control machines than people with individual, and likely progressive ideas, that is why these ME countries are still living in the dark ages, despite the big oil rich cities that are the playgrounds for the kings, princes and mullahs to cavort in. These favored few will not allow for change--they like it the way it is. The average citizen lives in destitution, and under strict Islamic law, the punishment for disobeying in anyway mutilation or death.

We have all seen how Saddam's sons, Udai and Qusai lived, hardly what Muslims would call a devout life. And ALL of these countries are basically the same, just different fronts for the leading classes. They live perverted lives of luxury while the poor die from lack of clean water....

Oops, it seems I've strayed far from the topic, my apologies. As for Baradei, what did we expect? Isn't he of Iranian extraction? I thought I'd heard that but could be wrong. He is a Muslim though...

El Baradei is Ahmadinejad's BYTCH and lover...consider the
source.....







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