The main point of this story is that because the calls for violence were part of a prayer, it's protected speech. He was asking Allah to throw the drain cleaner, despite the fact that Allah hasn't shown much of an interest in plumbing or any other do-it-yourself projects over the years, relying instead on the violence of willing believers. The only question is where and when local authorities will decide al-Khattab has crossed the line of "clear and present danger."
Yousef al-Khattab Update. "New York-Based Muslim's Web Site Calls for God to 'Kill the Jews'," from Fox News, October 13 (thanks to Chris):
A New York bicycle cabbie who last year used his Web site to mock the beheading of journalist Daniel Pearl posted a prayer calling for the murder of Jews and exhorting Muslims to "throw liquid drain cleaner in their faces." And there's nothing authorities can do about it.
Yousef al-Khattab, who runs RevolutionMuslim.com and pedals a pedicab in New York City, insists the words he has posted on his Web site are a prayer, and not a threat -- and that his hatred is protected by the First Amendment.
"If it was a threat, I'd be in jail," the 41-year-old al-Khattab told Foxnews.com from his home in Queens. "I'm asking my God, that's what it is. Every supporter of Israel is an enemy combatant and the immune system is not anti-Semitic for resisting disease."
Al-Khattab removed the Oct. 7 post a "few days ago" and replaced it with a post about a mosque in Jerusalem.
An American-born Jew formerly known as Joseph Cohen who converted to Islam after attending an Orthodox rabbinical school -- al-Khattab called on Allah to carry out "wrath on the Jewish occupiers of Palestine & their supporters."
"Please throw liquid drain cleaner in their faces," he wrote. " ... burn their flammable sukkos while they sleep ... Ya Allah (Oh God) answer my duaa (prayer)." ("Sukkos" refers to the Jewish holiday of Sukkot, during which Jews build and eat their meals in outdoor huts known as "sukkahs," which represent the huts the Jews lived in during their exodus from Egypt.)
Judge Andrew Napolitano, Fox News' senior legal analyst, said the posting is "absolutely protected" by the First Amendment.
"All innocuous speech is absolutely protected and all speech is innocuous when there is time for more speech to rebut or address it," he told Foxnews.com. "So even if this Web site were to call on Muslim freedom fighters to kill Jews, as long as there is time for someone else to challenge this with words, then the originals words are lawful."
The blog post, signed by al-Khattab, notes that it should be taken only as a "prayer" and not as an incitement to genocide. But officials at the Anti-Defamation League are worried about its ability to influence others.
"Whether it's a poem or a prayer, however he describes it, he decided to post it. And if you're going to be posting a prayer like that, you just don't know who's going to read that and who might be influenced by it," said Oren Segal, director of the ADL's Center on Extremism. "There's a certain amount of responsibility behind posting your own blog. We take it very seriously."
Segal said the New York Police Department is "aware" of the blog post. Calls to Paul Browne, deputy commissioner of public information for the NYPD, were not immediately returned.
RevolutionMuslim.com has been monitored by the ADL since 2006, Segal said, and has roughly five to 10 active members who frequently distribute anti-Semitic literature in front of mosques throughout New York City.
"This is a group we've monitored for a while," Segal said. "This is nothing particularly new, but then again, [the threat] has the ability to potentially influence people."...
Yet Yale falls to dhimmitude when asked to publish Motoons? Yeah, that makes sense. /NOT
"Please throw liquid drain cleaner in their faces," he wrote. "
DRAIN CLEANER??
What no fire & brimstone?
This Allah is seriously lacking "God" skills
He needs his followers to raid their cleaning supplies for his service.
In the category of the "psychically marginal" Kattab-Cohen (or perhaps it should be Cohen-Kattab) surely takes some kind of cake.
This is the Holy Muslim Wink-Wink-Nudge-Nudge Prayer.
So following the same tenants of free speech: I pray that Islam dies in a fire of radioactivity before it does it to the rest of the world (Uighur world exempt – don’t want to piss the Chinese off).
Just a like minded prayer brought to you by your friendly neighbourhood Kufar.
Joseph Cohen was sexually molested by his Rabi and his Ex fellows Hasidim.
Typical Ex Hasidic "commando" combat technique:-
I'M GONA 'SHPITZ' YOU like COCKROACH !
What happened, huh? Not a good Muslim yet to wear a C4 jacket??
So following the same tenants of free speech: I pray that Islam dies in a fire of radioactivity before it does it to the rest of the world (Uighur world exempt – don’t want to piss the Chinese off).
Just a like minded prayer brought to you by your friendly neighbourhood Kufar.
Seriously. Alla uses drain cleaner? Who knew?
nabi ZK (pbum)
And there's nothing authorities want to do about it.
COHEN IS A SHIKSA AND MENTALLY ILL. He is well-known
among the Hasidic community in Queens for being a Paranoid
Schizophrenic and has been in and out of St. Elizabeth's Hospital in NY for decades.
Ironically (like his reference to SUKKOS which is the
Hebrew for Succoth; in Arabic it would be SUKKAH), Cohen-Kattab utters Yiddish or Hasidic Hebrew pronounciations
while he denounces Jews. What is almost Kafaesque is
that he violently denounces Jews using religious references
that hardly any Arab Muslim would use (obviously because
Cohen, as a former Hasid, has read Torah and Midrash
and knows the intricacies of his former faith).
No sane person says "Burn their flammable Sukkos while they sleep.."
He needs Diazepam and/or some other anti-psychotic meds.
This is not to defend him in anyway of course. He is still
responsible for his stupidity and violent beliefs, but there
isn't much you can do with a sick self-hating Jews off his meds (just like there isn't much you can do with a sick Muslim, meds or not).
Praying in private is prayer.
Leading prayer,or prayer in general,on his blog is part of
the call to islam, prosthelytizing,in line with it's mission statement.
In my humble opinion.
or it's secret Shirk.
Do any members of the IDF ever take a holiday in New York?
Had Allah or Gabriel disclosed the wonders of liquid drain killer to Mahound, the world would be a much better place today...
Hate prayer is protected?
Hmmm so if Geert were talking in prayer about the evils of islam...
Hate prayer is protected?
Hmmm so if Geert were talking in prayer about the evils of islam...
"[al-Khattab] posted a prayer calling for the murder of Jews and exhorting Muslims to "throw liquid drain cleaner in their faces." And there's nothing authorities can do about it."
I suspect a case can be made that this constitutes a death threat and a threat of violence. I would be interested to read what posters who have some legal background have to say about this.
While making the case on legal grounds might be difficult, it is perhaps easier to determine al-Khattab's probable intent, based on what he believes, e.g., the Quran. In light of what the Quran says, Al-Khattab's claim that this threat is only a prayer to Allah is highly misleading, probably deliberately so. A basic premise in the Quran is that when true Muslims fight the disbelievers, it is Allah who is powering the fighting. As 8:17 states
"Ye (Muslims) slew them not, but Allah slew them. And thou (Muhammad) threwest not when thou didst throw, but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair test from Him. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower."
See the Jalalayn tafsir of 8:17 here:
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=1&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=8&tAyahNo=17&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2
In other words, "Allah's" killing or throwing involves Muslims acting in accordance with Allah's will. Hence, al-Khattab's "prayer" is more a request that Muslims carry out these actions (e.g., murdering Jews, and/or throwing a toxic substance into their faces). This is very much like making a threat that is genuinely intended to be carried out by people and adding "Allah willing." In reality, it is one person making threats against another, nothing else. This becomes clear once we understand what the Quran says about how Allah delivers punishment, i.e., through the hands of the true Muslims (9:14, 2:251, 9:52, 47:4).
47:4 “…And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others….”
2:251 "...And if Allah had not repelled some men by others the earth would have been corrupted."
[The above verse implies that Allah needs Muslims to keep non-Muslims from spreading corruption on earth]
9:14 "Fight them! Allah will chastise them at your hands..."
Also, Muhammad's example conduct as described in the Hadith and Sira indicates that those against whom he prayed were eventually fought or conquered by Muslims. Hence, the Quran itself notes that non-Muslims fear Muslims more than they fear Allah (59:13).
In the Quran, the will of the true Muslim acting in Allah's Cause is the same as, or an extension of, Allah's will.
76:29 "Lo! this [recitation] is an Admonishment, that whosoever will may choose a way unto his Lord.
76:30. Yet ye will not, unless Allah willeth. Lo! Allah is Knower, Wise."
Ibn Abbas comments on 76:30: "(Yet ye will not) good or evil, faith or disbelief, (unless Allah willeth) that you will it. (Lo! Allah is Knower) of what you will whether it is good or evil, (Wise) He decreed that you do not will anything of good or evil except that which He wills."
So when a Muslim makes a threat and invokes Allah's will, this means that in his own mind it is more serious, right, and correct than a threat that does not invoke Allah's will. In contrast, modern Western non-Muslims, like the judge cited in the above article, seem to think that a threat that invokes a god is merely "religious" and does not need to be taken seriously.
Drain cleaner? Does this mean that Allah is coming into the 21st century? I didn't know there were drains needing cleaning this way back then.
Yousef al-Khattab/Joseph Cohen:
It did not take me long to find your Queens address.
In fact, its very close to the neighborhood I grew up in.
It will take you less time to find me by my IP address.
So...let me cut to the chase.
As a Jew, I have no choice but to take your threat seriously.
Therefore, I will do to you before you do to me
Perhaps this can be construed as self-defense -
Either way, i dont care.
I am coming for you.
Yousef al-Khattab/Joseph Cohen:
It did not take me long to find your Queens address.
In fact, its very close to the neighborhood I grew up in.
It will take you less time to find me by my IP address.
So...let me cut to the chase.
As a Jew, I have no choice but to take your threat seriously.
Therefore, I will do to you before you do to me
Perhaps this can be construed as self-defense -
Either way, i dont care.
I am coming for you.
The moment that the Jew Joseph Cohen converted to Islam, he changed overnight from being an Honorary Evil White to being an Honorary Good Brown protected by PC MC culture -- which is, luckily for him, dominant and mainstream not only in America, but also throughout the West.
Kinana of Khaybar wrote:
As [Qur'an] 8:17 states
"Ye (Muslims) slew them not, but Allah slew them. And thou (Muhammad) threwest not when thou didst throw, but Allah threw, that He might test the believers by a fair test from Him. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower."
.....................
Excellent point, Kinana. This "prayer to Allah" could easily be answered by the evil actions of some of Allah's faithful, handily armed with drain cleaner.
From "Revolution Muslim's" Mission Statement:
We focus on educating Muslims and Non-Muslims alike about the actuality of the religion and thereby work to preserve traditional Islamic values for Muslims across the globe.
.....................
Ah, yes--and "traditional Islamic values" include attacking and murdering Jews.
more:
We pray that we may witness the dismantlement of western, secular dominance across the world as we hold it to be pagan and idolatrous in the majority of its presumptions. We seek a resurrection of the just example set forth by centuries of Islamic rule throughout the ages and we hold it to be self evident for the objective soul and mind that Allah is One and that Muhammad ibn Abdullah is His Prophet and that the religion offers the solution to all of the world’s ills and afflictions.
.....................
Yes, if you want to create *Hell on earth*, as so many of "Revolution Muslim's" co-religionists have--in Afghanistan, and Somalia, and Sudan, and many another Islamic "paradise".
poetcomic makes an important point with:
Cohen-al Khattab's prayer for incitement to violence appears to be as protected under the first amendment as Islam's docrtines bearing similar threats.
From TheReligionofPeace website:
First amendment protections for Islam's interminable calls for violence should be forced into courts for immediate clarification. Cohen- al Khattab's prayer should serve as the vehicle which can expose Islam for the war it conceals under the umbrella of the second amendment. This could/should be co$tly for al Khattab, and di$asterou$ for Islam.
Nope! I have to disagree that anythig will be done here.
Attorney General Eric Holder is the person incharge of deciding who is guilty of Hate Crimes under the new "Hate Crimes" Bill HR2647
DEFINITION OF HATE GROUP.—In this subsection, the terms ‘group associated with hate-related violence’ or ‘hate group’ mean the following:
(A) Groups or organizations that espouse or engage in acts of violence against other groups or minorities based on ideals of hate, ethnic supremacies, white supremacies, racism, anti-Semitism, xenophobia, or other bigotry ideologies.
Other groups or organizations that are determined by the Attorney General to be of a violent, extremist nature.
EVIDENCE OF ASSOCIATION OR AFFILATION WITH HATE GROUP.—The following shall constitute evidence that a person is associated or affiliated with a group associated with hate-related violence:
(A) Individuals possessing tattoos or other body markings indicating association or affiliation with a hate group.
(B) Individuals known to have attended meetings, rallies, conferences, or other activities sponsored by a hate group.(Does that mean Tea Parties are out?)
(C) Individuals known to be involved in online activities with a hate group, including being engaged in online discussion groups or blog or other postings that support, encourage, or affirm the group’s extremist or violent views and goals. Say goodby to Jihad Watch, Atlas Shrugs, Sheikyermami.com, Gates of Vienna, etc...
(D) Individuals who are known to have in their possession photographs, written testimonials (including diaries or journals), propaganda, or other materials indicating involvement or affiliation with a hate group. Such materials can include photographs, written materials relating to or referring to extreme hatred that are clearly not of an academic nature, possession of objects that venerate or glorify hateinspired violence, and related materials, as determined by the Attorney General.(Does that mean I have to erase all my cartoons and phtos depicting Moe and the violence of his ideology? Like these pictures?)
I am certain that One World Government is already here.
The only thing they haven't changed is the currency but that is coming shortly as the US dollar will be dropped soon. The United Arab Nations runs the world now. We are done for unless(pardon but ths may sound like hate speech) we revolt and over throw this World Government.
It is not democracy anymore. It is tyranny and we are about to become the slaves to some very evil Islamo-Nazi masters.
The conversion of the New York Jew Joel Cohen to a self-hating and other-hating Islam is vividly reminiscent of a 2001 movie made about a New York Jew who becomes a neo-Nazi -- aptly titled The Believer. Who in Hollywood, or among the indie bottomfeeders of the Sundancing film industry, will be bold enough to make a new movie based in the grim reality of this real "Believer"?
Muhammad did not have indoor plumbing, therefore that must be haram. And in that case, so too must all the accessories to indoor plumbing be haram, including drain cleaner. Unless of course you can find a destructive, hateful, Islam-promoting use, then it magically becomes halal.
make that Joseph Cohen
I remember this guy was interviewed by Richard Dawkins once, who seemed to be rather shocked by the ferocity of the man's views. This occasion may have been the moment when Dawkins dropped his even-handedness toward Islam and Judaism/Christianity and appreciated the particular danger and savagery that characterizes Islam.
See here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8b3vhTO248&feature=related
The man is obviously sick, but apparently well within the bounds of what passes for normal in the world of Islamic radicals. And he's not too sick to realize the publicity boon this has brought to him. Check out his site http://revolutionmuslim.com/ where he loudly trumpets this story and its being featured in a Fox News story. The site also has links to some other Islamist materials of interest. Check out the "Board of Directors" to see who his cohorts are. Interesting looking bunch, eh? He even has a YouTube channel.
Thanks for this al-Kidya. One could go on forever about how dangerous these laws are as drafted, but I'll confine myself to the first of the points you posted.
"Definition of hate groups: (A) Groups or organizations that espouse or engage in acts of violence against other groups or minorities based on ideals of hate, ethnic supremacies, white supremacies, racism, anti-Semitism, xenophobia, or other bigotry ideologies.
"Other groups or organizations that are determined by the Attorney General to be of a violent, extremist nature."
This is incredibly sloppy, self serving selectivity and a poor basis for drafting laws. Why were not included hatred based on ideals of (a la Jeremiah Wright or Calypso Louise Farrakan et al.) or hatred not just of "minorities" but of the majority? Why not make it a crime to espouse or engage in violence based on social ideals (a la Bill Ayers and Bernadette Dorn and the Weather Underground)? But first, how about defining hatred and bigotry and any of the other terms used here before passing laws based on them? Laws are useless without rock solid definitions of terms.
I agree, Holder won't prosecute anyone except those from select groups that he deems guilty of "hate crimes" according to his selective definition of the term.
Thanks for this al-Kidya. One could go on forever about how dangerous these laws are as drafted, but I'll confine myself to the first of the points you posted.
"Definition of hate groups: (A) Groups or organizations that espouse or engage in acts of violence against other groups or minorities based on ideals of hate, ethnic supremacies, white supremacies, racism, anti-Semitism, xenophobia, or other bigotry ideologies.
"Other groups or organizations that are determined by the Attorney General to be of a violent, extremist nature."
This is incredibly sloppy, self serving selectivity and a poor basis for drafting laws. Why were not included hatred based on ideals of black supremicies (a la Jeremiah Wright or Calypso Louise Farrakan et al.) or hatred not just of "minorities" but of the majority? Why not make it a crime to espouse or engage in violence based on social ideals (a la Bill Ayers and Bernadette Dorn and the Weather Underground)? But first, how about defining hatred and bigotry and any of the other terms used here before passing laws based on them? Laws are useless without rock solid definitions of terms.
I agree, Holder won't prosecute anyone except those from select groups that he deems guilty of "hate crimes" according to his selective definition of the term.