Here is a very serious message from Muslim apostate Rifqa Bary's friend Jamal Jivanjee. You may recall that Judge Daniel Dawson in Florida had said that he would not send Rifqa back to Ohio, where she says her father had threatened to kill her for converting from Islam to Christianity, until he received her family's immigration documents. So the father's attorney cut a deal with Rifqa's guardian ad litem, offering to keep Rifqa in foster care until she was 18 -- which would mean she was free from the father she fears so much -- in exchange for dropping questions about the immigration status. But once the contempt of court charge over the immigration issue was dropped, the father's attorney reneged, leaving Rifqa back in Ohio and in imminent danger of being sent home to her family. From there, of course, once media attention died down, it would not be difficult to have her sent back to Sri Lanka to be killed or institutionalized -- and even here she would be subjected to relentless, unstinting pressure to renounce Christianity and proclaim Islam publicly.
Jamal frames this issue in Christian terms, understandably enough, but I cannot emphasize more strongly that this is a human rights issue that should energize every person of conscience of whatever creed or point of view. Will this girl be exposed to mortal danger in order to appease the gods of political correctness? Will she be allowed to exercise her freedom of conscience in the United States of America? Will Sharia provisions -- calling for the indefinite imprisonment and isolation of the female apostate -- be allowed to prevail in this country? Why is Rifqa, alone among the thousands of minors in foster care, be cut off from the outside world entirely, deprived of phone and Internet use? The phone or Internet could save her life. And saving her life seems to be what malevolent forces in the U.S. are doing their best to make impossible.
Here is Jamal's message from Facebook:
To all those who value life,Please take a few minutes to consider the life of our sister in the faith Rifqa Bary, which is once again in grave jeopardy. On Tuesday October 27'th, Rifqa Bary was handed over to Ohio authorities for placement in foster care in Franklin County. Over the previous weekend, a very unfortunate deal was made by Rifqa's former Florida Guardian Ad Litem, Krista Bartholomew, with Rifqa's parent's attorney David Colley that allowed Rifqa to be transferred back to Ohio. The gist of this (behind the scenes) deal was the following:
1. Because Rifqa's parents are in the U.S. illegally, they refused and defied numerous court orders to produce documents detailing their immigration status. As a result, Rifqa's parents were in danger of being arrested for contempt of court. The Florida judge who had emergency jurisdiction over the case said that even though the jurisdiction is transferred to Ohio, he was not going to release her until they produced the proper documentation that satisfied the court.
Well, in order to have the immigration issue go away for Rifqa's parents, Mohammad Bary's attorney, David Colley, cut a 'behind the scenes' deal in which the Florida court would drop the contempt of court issue regarding their immigration situation in exchange for an assurance that they would leave Rifqa alone and let her stay in foster care for the next 9 months until she is 18. This sounded like it was too good to be true, and it was! As soon as Rifqa was transferred into Ohio custody and the Florida court gave up their emergency jurisdiction over Rifqa and the immigration issue, Rifqa's parents fired their own attorney that made the deal! Simply put, now that Rifqa was in 'favorable' hands in Ohio, all deals are off!
In my opinion, this was all part of a premeditated plan on the part of Rifqa's parents and the organization called C.A.I.R. who has been advising them according to the Florida department of law enforcement report released to the public. They have since hired a Muslim activist attorney named Omar Tarazi that is no doubt influenced by the mafia like C.A.I.R. organization whose sole agenda is to paint a positive picture of Islam in America at any cost. (The slander of the Lorenz family and the slander of 17 year old Rifqa's own character by releasing her prayer journals to the media are perfect examples of how C.A.I.R. ruthlessly operates to accomplish their agenda.)
They completely went back on the agreement that they made to leave Rifqa alone, and I believe they now are planning to continue to pursue to get her back against Rifqa's will. C.A.I.R. wants her silenced both now, and in the future, because they know that Rifqa's story of abuse is common among many Muslim families. Apostasy in Islam is not something they want to shine a light on. They know that as her story gets out there, there will be a massive exodus of Muslims just like her. Indeed, it has already begun!
2. If that was not bad enough, Rifqa went back to a hostile environment in Ohio right away. In an article posted on Saturday October 24'th, three days before her return to Ohio, the Columbus Dispatch reported that Eric Fenner, the executive director of Franklin County Children Services, has said that he has stated that he "has no reason to believe that Rifqa wouldn't be safe with her parents." Remember this is coming from the very person who has charge over protecting her!
Rifqa then arrived back to Ohio on Tuesday October 27'th. Upon her arrival came a new set of restrictions that her parents and Muslim attorneys have been trying to impose on her from the beginning...solitary confinement! While Rifqa was being protected in Florida, they repeatedly tried to separate Rifqa from other Christians that she leaned on for strength and encouragement. Rifqa's Muslim parents have been saying from the beginning that they don't believe that Rifqa became a Christian on her own accord, rather they believe that her real problem is that she has been brain washed by other people through facebook and over the phone.
Immediately upon Rifqa's arrival to Ohio, came new draconian measures to limit her freedom already! Franklin County Juvenile Magistrate Mary Goodrich put these restrictions on Rifqa at the request of the Franklin county children's services agency immediately upon her arrival back to the state of Ohio.
"Bary's use of Facebook was one issue that led to the situation, said Jim Zorn, a children's services attorney, who asked Goodrich to restrict Bary from using the Internet and her cell phone. "What we want to restrict is the other people, the other organizations, the other forces, that have interjected themselves into this case inappropriately, and has caused the additional problems that we've seen," Zorn said.
Zorn's account of Rifqa's situation is absolutely false! Where is he getting his information? It seems as if the Ohio director of children's services in Franklin County is reading right out of the C.A.I.R. and radical Muslim playbook for this case. Facebook did not in any way lead to this situation. What led to this situation was the fact that a very bright and intelligent girl decided to leave Islam and become a Christian. According to numerous passages in the Qur'an and other Islamic scriptures, this is called apostasy and is punishable by death. Like many others all over the world, Rifqa faced this threat of death, or even deportation back to Sri-Lanka by her own family along with pressure from the Columbus Ohio mosque that her family was actively apart of.
What crime did Rifqa Bary commit that she would be held with such restrictions from communicating to the outside world? While it is legal for 17 year old girls in this country to have abortions without parental agreement, this 17 year old girl is forbidden to have unrestricted access to her phone or facebook friends of her choosing! Is she under house arrest because she is a Christian? This sounds like Sharia law in Ohio!
Immediate Call to Action:
Before I get into the specifics of how we can help, let me say this about a very common misunderstanding that many Christians have regarding God's sovereignty and fighting for justice. Many of my well meaning brothers and sisters in the church have wondered what the balance is between sitting back, trusting God, and actively fighting for justice. Some have said that because I am fighting for justice in Rifqa's situation, I am taking the situation in my hands and I am not trusting that God is sovereign over this situation. That is ridiculous to say the least. First of all there is a tremendous amount of support in scripture that commands the people of God to not remain silent in the face of injustice, and to speak and defend those who cannot defend themselves. For time's sake, I will not list those passages here. If you need help finding these scriptures along with their proper context, let me know and I'd be glad to help direct you to the appropriate passages.
All actions of justice should come from a heart of prayer first and foremost. It is from this place of prayer and intimacy with the Lord that we will find the courage, specific direction, and strength to understand and actually do what He is calling us to do! While not everyone will be called to do the same thing, the Lord will burden our hearts for the things that burden His heart as well. His sovereign heart and actions are carried out through the church, which is simply people! We cannot separate ourselves from this. We are His body, His hands, His feet, His mouth, etc...
A lack of a proper understanding between God's sovereignty and His heart for justice is what allowed the church to sit passively by in Nazi Germany as Jewish people were slaughtered by the millions while Christians were paralyzed by fear and did nothing. Corrie Ten Boom was an exception to the rule. She was not afraid, and she knew what God had called her to do. There should have been millions of Corrie Ten Booms in Germany at that time. This same cowardice and passivity is also what has allowed over 3000 children to be murdered by abortion each and every day in this nation with little or no outcry in prayer and public against this tragedy. We must get this right! Now with that said, here are some specific things we can do for Rifqa right now:
Since most of Rifqa's Florida support base is cut off from her, and she is now under the care of authorities that do not take the threat to her life seriously, I would like to ask you to help them understand that Rifqa is not alone and that there are many people who will not sit idly by while Rifqa is sent back to her demise. This does make a difference. Rifqa's story must continue to be told for her sake, and for the sake of many others! Feel free to repost this article and pass it along to anyone you would like for the sake of getting the word out.
Please contact Franklin County Children Services, and the Ohio governor's office at the following addresses and let them know that you want Rifqa to be able to have the basic freedoms to communicate to the outside world, and that she needs to be protected from her parents & the radical Islamic community:
Franklin County children services can be reached here:
http://www.franklincountyohio.gov/children_services/contact-us.cfmThe Ohio governor's office can be reached here:
http://governor.ohio.gov/Contact/tabid/153/Default.aspx
God bless you for taking a stand,
Jamal Jivanjee
www.illuminate-us.com
I don't understand something. The judge in the Rifqa Bary case has apparently dropped, as part of what is demurely called a "deal," any further inquiry into the immigration staus -- illegal, it appears -- of the Bary family. What does that mean? Does that mean that the Bary family will not be pursued by others than this judge, on the matter of illegal immigration status? Are the parents of Rifqa Bary home free, because they were in the position, or their lawyer was, to strike a "deal"? Where are the members of Congress asking questions, making sure that the Barys do not get away with their fiddling with the INS, their violation of our laws. Or is that being held off in order not to deport them -- as they should be deported -- until Rifqa Bary is herself 18, and can then her application to be considered a refugee, a legitimate designation in her case because were she to be deported with her family, she would certainly face great danger.
1. Is there any reason Krista Bartholomew or David Colley can't talk about this deal falling through?
2. Is there any reason Krista Bartholomew or David Colley won't talk about this deal falling through?
Sorry, but I'm a little bit worried about misinformation here...
"Bary's use of Facebook was one issue that led to the situation"
Well, her parents' use of Islam is another issue that "led to the situation".
So, really - let's "restrict the other people, the other organizations, the other forces, that have interjected themselves into this case inappropriately, and has caused the additional problems that we've seen".
Ugh. This is just so wrong for many, many reasons. Even if Rifqa was not Muslim, her father beat her repeatedly. Return the victim to the abuser? What sort of Children's Services is being run in Ohio? She can't use the phone or internet? Is Ohio some sort of fascist state? Or is it a People's Republic? Or, worse yet, is it governed by Sharia Law?
Salam,
Folks you gotta ask yourself this!...what does a 17 year old know about religion and a pianed complicated figure like Jesus Pbuh anyway? The begotten son of God ain't helping her out much anyway is he?
She should be out there laughing & having fun with her friends under the protection of her (Bari)family.
People like Spencer are attempting to use her as a political tool for their own selfish anti-Islam message on JW. ....folks ...don't you fall for it.
The best advice that I can give her is to "forget about Jesus, pbuh and christianity in particular, go back into the fold of Islam to please your parents"....BUT...forget about religion in general and enjoy your childhood within the confines that every other muslima teenager enjoys.
Allah SWT has created hundreds of millions of them...you as ther renegade minority are wrong whereas they as the majority are right ...and happy.
Be happy Rifqa, that's much more important than Jesus pbuh.
With Peace
Yom
For some while now, I have been wondering if the FL Judge, GAL, social workers and the FLDE were subject to threats or some type of extorsion from CAIR or other Muslim goons. I also have to wonder if there has been money exchanged on the deal, ostensibly as campaign funds, or operating cashola for an agency. Nothing of this deal passes the sniff test; it smells 'offal'.
Uh,just one teensy minute detail omitted in your suggestion.Her outraged illegal alien ol' man threatened to kill her,remember? Or are you just so enrapt in Islam that you are deaf,blind and dumb to her legitimate fears? Islam, fun wow..
Yom has a good point:
"She should be out there laughing & having fun with her friends"
Exactly Yom!
She should:
Be able to choose any religion she wishes to follow and not be threatened by the members of the cult of islam!
Be allowed to not be filled with the satanic rantings of mohammad and imams sick with hate.
Not be forced to read from the evl hateful quran.
Not be forced to worship a moongod.
Be considered equal to any man under the law and not a half witness.
"in exchange for dropping questions about the immigration status."
Who? Who would drop questions about their legal immigration status?
Isn't that the government's job to see if they're here illegally? Shouldn't the authorities be checking this out independently? If not, they should be compelled.
Fuck off, Yom.
Yom : The begotten son of God ain't helping her out much anyway is he?
Hey, Yom, that's a rally great point! Now if we examine the absolute carnage and disorder of predominantly moslem countries and apply the same logic.....
Yes, that's right! If christianity isn't helping christians then what would you call the kind of 'help' islam is giving moslems?
I would have to agree with Undaunted here. You're vaguely amusing but not amusing enough to want to read regularly.
GTFO!
I am trying to send out the below letter, and e mail in various forms to Ohio authorities in the hopes of of some serious due diligence can be performed in Rifqa Bary's Case.
Dear Sir
A great deal of Americans have valid concerns for the continued welfare of Rifqa Bary, the young 17 year old girl that converted to Christianity from her Muslim Family and was returned to Ohio yesterday, Tuesday October 27th.
As you and the governor know, this change makes Rifqa Bary an apostate in the eyes of the fundamental Muslim Community. Rifqa Bary and those who support and understand her plight have done all they can to make our authorities aware of the threats she faces.
Sadly and tragically the archaic practice of honor killings is becoming much more prevalent in America every year as an influx of Muslim immigrants are coming into our great country
I and many who have studied Islam over the years do certainly recognize that a civilized society finds it very difficult to grasp such an abhorrent practice as honor killings.
There is some standing evidence now coming to light that may put Rifqa Bary at risk.
Apparently Rifqa's Parents have fired their attorney David Colley who made a deal to get Rifqa out of the Florida Jurisdiction and now that deal is in serious jeopardy .
I implore you and the good offices of Governor Strickland to make serious and due diligence efforts on behalf of Rifqa Bary and all concerned Americans to insure that she is fully protected from any and all by the Franklin County Child Services Division and other protecting authorities.
Please forward these requests and concerns to all who can assist in this endeavor
Respectfully Yours,
Thank You
J.P Mackie
Yommie is leaving out one minor Muslim detail.
The penalty for apostates is death.
This is confirmed in the Qur'an, the aHadiths, Sharia "law" and the centuries of Islamic exgesis. Once again a "supposed" Muslim is denying the Qur'an. Now, of course, "Yommie" is still okay, because of "taquiyya" the Islamic practice of deceiving ("War is deceit" - Mohammed (BBOH)) infidels.
Ain't Islam grand?!
Perfect religion for sociopaths. Yommie, you don't view people (all people, Yom, not just Muslims) as objects, do you?
Wait, you answered that in another post, didn't you?
Yom_al_Juma | October 28, 2009 7:39 AM | Reply
Taliban are not welcoming her...they are sending a message, it's unfortunate that other muslims have to die for that. A simple letter to Hillary would have done.
oh, snap.
Yom:
> She should be out there laughing & having fun
You forget "There is no fun in Islam".
Are you a misunderstander?
May I apologise for profanities offered you by fellow-commentators. Your point of view is appreciated as it adds to our understanding of Practical Islam, and thus how to confront and overcome it.
Yom:
> She should be out there laughing & having fun
You forget "There is no fun in Islam".
Are you a misunderstander?
May I apologise for profanities offered you by fellow-commentators. Your point of view is appreciated as it adds to our understanding of Practical Islam, and thus how to confront and overcome it.
Yom:
> She should be out there laughing & having fun
You forget "There is no fun in Islam".
Are you a misunderstander?
May I apologise for profanities offered you by fellow-commentators. Your point of view is appreciated as it adds to our understanding of Practical Islam, and thus how to confront and overcome it.
Yom:
> She should be out there laughing & having fun
You forget "There is no fun in Islam".
Are you a misunderstander?
May I apologise for profanities offered you by fellow-commentators. Your point of view is appreciated as it adds to our understanding of Islam, and thus how to confront and overcome it.
If at 17 she cannot "know about religion" whay should she be expected to follow the strictures of Islam?
If she IS allowed to understand Religion, Why should she follow your "advice" to reject Jesus when she has chosen to reject Muhammad?
Governor: Protect Rifqa Bary.
Islamic Sharia Law and the Koran state that apostates can and should be killed. Islam all but ignores honor-killing - the killing of a family member to purge a stain and return the family honor.
Rifqa Bary has LEGITIMATE concerns about her safety, in her father's house and in the local muslim community (as the 'ummah' can also carry out the apostate's sentence).
Do not let your child protective services make an ignorant decision about Rifqa. Emancipate her from her parents and get her into protective custody and then to a safe haven elsewhere.
The parents, as muslims, are allowed to lie and be deceptive. Don't appease islam, don't accommodate islam, don't let her be killed ON YOUR WATCH.
I am not lunatic. I am an American Citizen who has read tens of thousands of pages on islam, its history, the islamic texts (koran, sira, hadith); and know apostates who fear for their lives. Islam is not the 'religion of peace' it is a political-judicial-religious doctrine whose express goal is to bring the world into submission under ‘divine’ sharia law.
Take this seriously; her life is in your hands.
CD
This is a course of action, I'm asking any local Church or Christian Fellowship to make a media announcement and invite Rifqa Bary to Church Sevices and invite her to participate in volunteer Christian Programs, so as to allow her the Constitution right ot freedom of religion. Every person has this right regardless of age. Also they need to invite her parents to the services and to Christ and stand tall for Jesus and shoot all of this as loud as you can for God's glory. There is no way anybody will stop her from participating in Church and volunmteer services, and if they try to stop it, get the ACLU involed, thats right, use the ACLU . Lets stop her from being sent back to Sri Lanka to be killed or institutionalized. Stand up Christions of Ohio, and let Jesus's name be heard around the world.
Romney, whoever the hell you think you are; you may NOT offer your smug apology to Yom for my profanity.
It stands in situ, and don't presume to apoligize for me again.
Great idea, Casey92.
Undaunted,
Sorry, didn't realise you are in charge of moderating the comments, but if so perhaps you could also remove my inadvertent multiple-postings...
I follow Roberts lead here in being critical of Islam without being critical of Muslims.
In the interests of free speech, I'll add a bit more Smug, and point out that I think that Dialog is the order of the day here. Muslims reading this column and commenting should be good news, unless they themelves are just Trolling or being abusive.
Now, then icing on the cake would be for Yom to apologise to me on YOUR behalf for your rudeness...
Welcome to the Arab market.
When we were in Jerusalem years ago - I was amazed at how the Arab market was so flexible and they would just tell you what you want to hear. Like one big used car lot.
So - a deal was made an then broken.
Welcome to Islam in America.
People who were in charge of Rifqa in Florida, needed to be aware of the fact that once they let go of control - all bets ere off. They assumed that deals made would be respected.
And yes - perhaps there were bribes or blackmail. Not sure on that - but the intention was to keep Rifqa safe until she was age 18 (as per the deal made and broken).
ML
Should we be surprised? Another round of Hudaibiya: Promise whatever it takes to get the upper hand and then renege. Rifqa needs defenders who are wise as serpents. When will she get them? I'm not a lawyer, so I thought it was the judge who would hold the Barys in contempt of court for refusal to produce immigration papers. How come the Florida judge was in joint conference with the Ohio judge to get her sent back but the Ohio judge can be off the hook to enforce the conditions on the basis of which it was agreed to send her back? If Rifqa isn't somehow freed from her family out to control her, she will be a victim of our "compassionate" tolerance of illegal immigration. Is this the "rule of law" our system offers her? Marian
Should we be surprised? Another round of Hudaibiya: Promise whatever it takes to get the upper hand and then renege. Rifqa needs defenders who are wise as serpents. When will she get them? I'm not a lawyer, so I thought it was the judge who would hold the Barys in contempt of court for refusal to produce immigration papers. How come the Florida judge was in joint conference with the Ohio judge to get her sent back but the Ohio judge can be off the hook to enforce the conditions on the basis of which it was agreed to send her back? If Rifqa isn't somehow freed from those out to control her, she will be a victim of our "compassionate" tolerance of illegal immigration. Marian
Dear Governor Strickland,
I am writing in deep concern for Rifqa Bary - for her rights, and for her protection.
In many European countries, it has now become common to protect a Muslim girl who comes forward asking for protection. They are often put into a witness protection type of program. They have learned the hard way that when a Muslim girl comes forward like this - the threat is very real.
It is possible that the publicity will protect her for a while.
The questions remain:
1) Why do you harbor illegal Muslim immigrants?
2) And why has Ohio bent over backwards to protect the PARENTS instead of the girl?
3) Why is Rifqa back in Ohio - at great risk of being sent back to her family?
4) and WHY is the girl made into a sort of "criminal" and being refused the use of normal teenage communication such as phone and facebook?
5) Why isolate a girl who made need help at a moments notice?
6) If Ohio agencies really care about the SAFETY of Rifqa - then why not allow her to be visible to her friends, and those who are concerned for her life and safety.
You are acting as if it is the parents who have been wronged and not the girl.
Take a look at her - she is already missing a body part: her eye.
Please show some spine on behalf of this girl.
Stand up and be a man, and please help the real life damsel in distress. If you do, when you review the events of your life, this may shine forth as one of your noblest deeds.
Sincerely,
....
....
ML
.....
I also called the Franklin County Children services. It went through to a voice mail for children's rights.
Franklin County children services can be reached here:
http://www.franklincountyohio.gov/children_services/contact-us.cfm
"I follow Roberts lead here in being critical of Islam without being critical of Muslims."
Sorry but I for one reserve the right to be VERY VERY critical of Moslems.
In the interests of free speech, I'll add a bit more Smug, and point out that I think that Dialog is the order of the day here. Muslims reading this column and commenting should be good news, unless they themelves are just Trolling or being abusive.
Yom IS being abusive. Calling Jesus names.
I have written to the Governor's office and also called Child Services. I was not expecting to get a live person, but I did! They took a full report, although I felt I did not have enough information to give to them. I wish I had been more prepared and tried to find an address/number for Rifqa's family. I don't even know if that's available.
Anyway, it seems like such a small thing, but if we all do the same thing they cannot ignore us and they can look into it and get the information they need. After all, that is their job!
Please, everyone, call.
And so the details of Rifqa's delivery into the tender mercies of her family and their mosque are now beginning to unfold, with many of the worries expressed only yesterday on this forum actually coming true. I can't begin to imagine the terror that poor girl must be feeling just now.
And Romney, undaunted is merely expressing the frustration everyone here feels about Yom al Juma, a Muslim of Pakistani origin who lives in the West and enjoys its freedoms and benefits. He frequents this board often to apologize for Islamic abuses and otherwise engage in Muslim da'wa in his own clumsy sort of way. Most regulars here have moved well beyond the point of feeling any need to be politely solicitous of Yom al Juma in the hope of engaging in any sort of rational dialog with him. So it is within this context that undaunted gave his rejoinder to Yom's pathetic comments. I full agree with him, and will add my own "fuck off" to Yom, as well.
Yom_al_Juma sez:
"Folks you gotta ask yourself this!...what does a 17 year old know about religion and a pianed complicated figure like Jesus Pbuh anyway? The begotten son of God ain't helping her out much anyway is he?"
Well it appears she has 17 years of experience and knowledge of Islam and has decided Islam ain't all it's cracked up to be...It also appears she is much happier with Christianity...people should be free to choose the religion of their choice, not be forced to covert under the penalty of death if you don't...Pretty smart girl...
Salam Romney,
1st of all let me apologise to you on behalf of people like undaunted and Eastview for their undimmed rudeness.
It seems that we have a diminishing class of kuffar that comment on JW these days.
Take undaunted for example...no value add or reply to my excellent advice ...simply a "fuck off"...not only rude but valueless.
Personally, I try to rise above this rudeness ...but I will say that you will never see a classy educated muslim like me stoop down to their level.
My posts are usually well thought out, structured and clean.
Take my point about the "begotten" son. Begotten means "sired" by God....I could take that to mean that Jesus pbuh is the biological son of Allah SWT ...but I know this to be untrue so...I don't express this rudeness....you get me!
Undaunted with Peace
Yom
undaunted, thank you for that! I feel exactly the same way when Obama apologizes for America. I'm not any where near convinced that he is an American himself! And I sure as hell don't want him apologizing for me.
I stand with undaunted and those who say:
Fuck off, Yom.
I apologize for Yommie. He is just pretending to be a human being.
"I apologize for Yommie. He is just pretending to be a human being."
And that would be...taqiyya
Yom can't be argued out of his beliefs because his worth and virility is built on the reputation of a stinky child-raping boy-lover. If we win the argument that Muhammad (pestilence be upon him) was not the perfect man ~ a task easily done by a dog with a note in his mouth ~ then Yom's pitiful ego crashes into the dust and he has to believe what's on the note in that dog's mouth.
Bite me, Yom.
"Bite me, Yom" ...ew, you might wanna have him checked for rabies first :)
@ Yom
"Folks you gotta ask yourself this!...what does a 17 year old know about religion"
Enough to know what we know - that it mandates the death of unbelievers like her. Enough to know that parents obey this teaching and murder their own children.
Just ask Amina and Sarah Said what they know about Islam. Oh, wait, you can't. They're dead, murdered by their own Muslim father in obedience to your "prophet's" teaching that if anyone changes his religion they should be killed.
"and a pianed complicated figure like Jesus Pbuh anyway?"
I don't even know what you mean by this ridiculous statement. You have no business even naming the name of Jesus Christ (much less mocking him by your phony "pbuh"), you whose ideology twists what the bible teaches and denies everything He claimed to be and stood for.
"She should be out there laughing & having fun with her friends under the protection of her (Bari)family."
She could be doing just that, if only lived in a family whose religion doesn't teach parents to murder their own children.
"People like Spencer are attempting to use her as a political tool for their own selfish anti-Islam message on JW. ....folks ...don't you fall for it."
You must be new here, eh? Such baseless (not to mention childish) accusations against Mr. Spencer or JW or its supporters will not stand here. We know what Islam is. We know what it teaches. So unless you have the guts to back up your statements about a "selfish anti-Islam message" with facts to demonstate this accusation, your comment is utterly laughable.
"The best advice that I can give her is to "forget about Jesus, pbuh and christianity in particular, go back into the fold of Islam to please your parents"....BUT...forget about religion in general and enjoy your childhood within the confines that every other muslima teenager enjoys."
The best advice I can give you is to take your intolerant, hateful, blood-soaked ideology and go to whatever country there may be where people want it. We do not want it here.
"Allah SWT has created hundreds of millions of them...you as ther renegade minority are wrong whereas they as the majority are right ...and happy."
Your monstrous "god" Allah has mandated the killing of millions and the enslavement, oppression and misery of countless millions more. In your sick mind this is "right". In the minds of sane people, this is wrong.
Life and freedom will win out. Death and slavery to Islam will not.
"Be happy Rifqa, that's much more important than Jesus pbuh."
She will be happy, as soon as she gets away from this so-called religion that mandates her death.
Nothing is more important than Jesus because He wills that people should have LIFE. Quite the opposite of your pedophile, warlord "prophet" Mohammad.
"With Peace"
Islam's definition of peace is submission. Rifqa will not submit. I will not submit. We will not submit.
Be gone, and take Islam with you.
What really makes me mad about this whole thing is this:
If the situation were reversed, if a teenage daughter of Christian parents said her parents threatened her for leaving their religion, she would be immediately taken away from her parents. There would be no discussion. Just her statement would be considered sufficient grounds for removing her from her family. And then there would be a really, REALLY invasive investigation of the parents.
The so-called "investigation" in this case seems to have involved nothing other than asking the parents, "Do you intend to kill your daughter? No? Good, case closed."
Hugh,
To answer your question: The Florida judge had previously told the parents he would hold them in contempt of his court if they did not produce the immigration docs in 10 days. They stonewalled. The deal cut was that he would not put out a warrant for their arrest or whatever it is that judges do to force people to come to their courts when they are held in contempt. He wouldn't formally hold them in contempt of court for blatantly defying his court order to produce the immigration docs. He would send her back to Ohio without their producing the immigration docs, and he would drop further inquiries into their and Rifqa's immigration status and would send her back without having his questions on that subject answered. He--who had shown an uncomfortable tendency to make those inquiries--would give up his jurisdiction of the case. They have hopes that the Ohio judge won't look into that issue.
Of course they aren't "home free" from a federal point of view. The feds can still deport them. This isn't such a great thing, though, if she is returned to them, because then the feds would deport her along with them, and she'd never be heard from again. That was one reason the Florida judge was looking into this. It might even have been illegal to transport her across state lines if she is here illegally, but he just agreed to stop looking into that question if they would agree to the deal. Which they then reneged on.
Hope that clarifies.
Hugh,
To answer your question: The Florida judge had previously told the parents he would hold them in contempt of his court if they did not produce the immigration docs in 10 days. They stonewalled. The deal cut was that he would not put out a warrant for their arrest or whatever it is that judges do to force people to come to their courts when they are held in contempt. He wouldn't formally hold them in contempt of court for blatantly defying his court order to produce the immigration docs. He would send her back to Ohio without their producing the immigration docs, and he would drop further inquiries into their and Rifqa's immigration status and would send her back without having his questions on that subject answered. He--who had shown an uncomfortable tendency to make those inquiries--would give up his jurisdiction of the case. They have hopes that the Ohio judge won't look into that issue.
Of course they aren't "home free" from a federal point of view. The feds can still deport them. This isn't such a great thing, though, if she is returned to them, because then the feds would deport her along with them, and she'd never be heard from again. That was one reason the Florida judge was looking into this. It might even have been illegal to transport her across state lines if she is here illegally, but he just agreed to stop looking into that question if they would agree to the deal. Which they then reneged on.
Hope that clarifies.
Hey, Yom;
The reason I won't engage in a conversation/debate with you and your shitty ilk is because your beliefs are not based on logic or even common sense and so cannot be defeated by reason.
Your beliefs are built solidly and eternally one one single foundation: irrational fear.
You're scared into believing in your so-called god and prophet and so overcompensate with us and the entire freakin' world as you try to seem brave and erudite.
So, I won't waste my time resisting you with an argument; just the only thing you're worth: brief notifications, as posted above, that I know you're a fool and a coward and I won't submit to your fear or your so-called god and prophet.
So, shove it, bitch.
Does anyone know what kind of foster care Rifqa has been placed in? A mohammedan family? Group home. Pretty sure it will not have been a Christian or Jewish family. What kind of "care" extends no freedoms? What kind of "care" does not allow for contact with friends. This kind of isolation is unthinkable and coupled with the fear of death at the hands of her own family .....well....
"With Peace
Yom"
What's the matter Yom-seem, no love today? Was it blowing your delusion as a "virile Muslim man"?
"The best advice that I can give her is to 'forget about Jesus, pbuh and christianity in particular, go back into the fold of Islam to please your parents'....BUT...forget about religion in general and enjoy your childhood within the confines that every other muslima teenager enjoys."
Yes, yes little Muslim teenager. Perhaps some old, middle aged Muslim man can sodomize you in the name of marriage. Yep, you'll definitely want to enjoy those Muslim teenaged years.
Poor Yom-seem. So many big Muslim dreams, so few brain cells. Rifqa has already surpassed your life and she's only seventeen. She's had more life as a Christian in the past three years than you have in fifty, lady. But we understand your motive, girlfriend. Misery LOVES company, in the depressing and very small suffocating world of the Muslima.
I learned the truth at seventeen,
That love was meant for Christian teens,
And Muslim girls got none of it,
They married young and disappeared,
The peace and love they never knew,
The brutal lies and beatings too,
Were spent on Muslim girls with thoughts,
At seventeen I learned the truth.
And those of us with beaten faces,
covered up to hide the traces,
Desperately remained at home,
Trying not to cry or moan
And dad would say, wear your hijab
and murmur vague obscentities
When I yearned to be free
At seventeen
A brown eyed girl who got put down,
Who jumped a bus and left the town,
Whose lost eye dad said she deserved
Because she always had the nerve
And the minor, Muslim beauty queen
marries into what she needs
with a guarantee of slavery
and a haven for her nine siblings
Remember those who win the game
lose the lives they sought to gain
Indentured servants, sex slaves all
Dead futures hoping to forestall
The small town eyes will gape at you
in dull surprise
when payment due
exceeds accounts received
at seventeen
To those of us who knew the pain
of parent's love that never came
and those whose lives were snuffed out soon
after outsmarting Muslim goons
It was long ago and faraway
the world was younger than today
when Muslim girls had dreams so high
then falling back to earth, they die
We all play the game
and when we dare
to cheat our parents
for their false, non-care
Inventing tales to get to church
Repenting dad is such a jerk
to call and say I'll kill you now
and murmur vague obscenities
at Christian girls like me
at seventeen
Well done, Isabella! The original song is sad enough. The sadness of Islam makes it nearly unbearable.
Isabella - that poem (I'm assuming it's an adaptation of an existing song?) is really powerful.
It's frustrating to be on the other side of the world and watch this awful thing happening and not be able to do very much at all.
The Barnabas Fund people know about Rifqa's case. It's in their prayer diary for November-December.
I sent info on Rifqa's case to the one MP in our federal parliament who - I know for a fact - understands about the Law of Apostasy. I think he has contacts with Barnabas Fund. I'll send him an update and beg him to raise the matter with our PM. Because if other Western governments were to ask pointed questions of the USA, at the highest level, about this case, it might help.
Anyway: I'm praying too. Every day. Let's remember Psalm 124.
Yom,
While the emphasis of this thread is - and should continue to be - concern about Rifqa (for whom I along with many others pray, with the belief that prayer is answered) I have just two brief comments regarding our "dialog".
First, thanks for your courtesy.
Secondly, you say "I could take that to mean that Jesus pbuh is the biological son of Allah SWT ...but I know this to be untrue". Yes, Jesus is not a biological Son and while we could discuss that further, the more important thing is not what YOUR view of who Jesus is, but what God's view is. I invite you to read some scriptures, where you will find God's prophecies about Jesus, the story of His life, death and resurrection, and the stories of His disciples and friends who, having walked and talked with him, will tell you the real truth about him in their own words.
No more from me here.
Romney; you are so totally wasting your time. The Bible you're asking the Yomster to study until he agrees with you also says that God gives some over to a reprobate mind.
That's His decision, not yours.
I've been very concerned about the Rifqa case since I first learned of it, and on first glance at the latest development I was alarmed. But reading it more thoroughly, I'm not sure whether we shouldn't rejoice. I'm not sure what is meant by "solitary confinement," but my best guess is simply that she's been isolated from her Christian friends. No doubt this bothers her, but she's a minor child and should be able to live under a bit of discipline for some period less than a year (when is her birthday, anyway?). The main thing is that she seems to be isolated, and thus safe, from her family.
Am I misunderstanding anything?
The Bible you're asking the Yomster to study until he agrees with you
Aw, you've gone and made be break my promise to say no more - but "I cannot keep silent."
Mulder X - "The Truth Is Out There."
John VIII:32 - "Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
Actually, John Chapter 8 is a great read for Yom (any anyone else)with a mind to try and understand what we Christians are talking about.
Yes, Karl Pov, you are misunderstanding something. If you read the story, the isolation from her Christian friends was specifically something the parents requested. Combine this with a highly inappropriate pre-judging of the case by Eric Fenner, the executive of the Children's Services in Frankly Cty, who told the newspaper that he doesn't see any reason why she couldn't be reunited with her parents. The whole point of this "discipline" is that the judge and the children's services are taking the side of the parents. The parents want to isolate her from her Christian friends, have her returned to them, and then either bully her into becoming a Muslim again or else whisk her back to Sri Lanka where she will not be free even when she turns 18.
It is _nine months_ until she turns 18, and there is very grave danger that she will be returned to her parents and to Sri Lanka before that time, with them. They threatened to institutionalize her there to "deal with" her Christianity, which they can do there indefinitely.
This isolation from her Christian friends is an indication of the mind of the court and its bent in the parents' direction, and it greatly raises the probability that she will be returned to them. It is also outrageous in itself, as there is no good reason why a Christian girl should be isolated from Christian friends. It also has more than a whiff of religious discrimination about it, given the intent.
I hope this is now clear.
Lydia, thanks for your comment, but it's not convincing. Sure Rifqa's parents asked that communication be cut with those they were accusing of brainwashing her. So what? Now she has the chance to demonstrate the steadfastness of her conversion. No one is preaching at her for either Islam or Christianity. Personally I'm an unbeliever, but it sure looks to me like her conversion was sincere and can hold up without reinforcement. Seems like her Christian friends are less confident about this.
I don't see any predisposition to unite Rifqa with her family. Why is she not reunited with her family now? I'd rather she'd stayed in Florida, but by keeping her and her family separate, it looks like Ohio has her best interests in mind.
I would welcome a more detailed description of the circumstances in which Rifqa now finds herself. I doubt the words "solitary confinement" are close to an honest description. I do wish there were less than nine months to go.
He doesn't CARE what you're talking about.
Get over yourself.
I'm not sure there's any point in my commenting, Karl, but she's not reunited with her parents in part because there has to be a dependency hearing first. That is scheduled for Nov. 16. Will you change your mind about what this cu-off of communication meant if she is sent back to her parents as speedily as the official processes of the court are able to bring this about?
I shd. add that she is being allowed _no_ phone or Internet. She is not merely being restricted from contact with the specific people to whom she originally ran in Florida. Essentially, she is being isolated from friends generally. I suspect that if some fundamentalist Christian family cut off their child from communication with the outside world in this way--and a girl of 17, too--they would be considered very suspect and draconian.
By the way, she isn't going to school. She is in a virtual school education program, hence, remaining in her foster home even for school. Mind you, she might be unsafe now in an Ohio school in that area anyway, but that might add to your understanding concerning "solitary confinement." Remember that this all means she is cut off from contact with the outside world except perhaps with her court-appointed lawyers, whom she is not being allowed to choose. (She had been allowed to choose her lawyer in Florida, but he has been taken off the case with the move to Ohio, against her will.) This is going to make it difficult for her to get out word if she is being mistreated in any way in foster care or if she is under psychological pressure from Children's Services to agree to return to her parents, etc.
The Florida judge did not consider this sort of cut-off to be necessary. The Ohio judge is behaving differently and more deferentially to the parents' wishes for the child, even though they _do not presently have custody_. That is, whether you realize it or not, an indication of the mind of the court vis a vis believing her vs. her parents' account of the situation. And yet normally courts err on the side of caution in protecting a child.
Given the unfortunate history of honor killings and other violence against uppity females in Muslim families, and testimony from various sources that Rifqa in particular has reason to fear such violence, I would be horrified at her being reunited with her family.
That a 17-year-old should be cut off from telephone and Internet doesn't bother me at all.
Her being isolated, if that means being isolated from her family, until her birthday seems to me an excellent outcome.
"No one is preaching at her for either Islam or Christianity."
"Her being isolated, if that means being isolated from her family, until her birthday seems to me an excellent outcome."
And who is overseeing and enforcing this "isolation?" Do you honestly think Rifqa's family, or members of her father's mosque, will not attempt to find a way to get to her, or to "reconvert" her back to Islam while she is in custody? I'm sorry to be so cynical, but I have grave doubts that it will all go as you say above. Your statements indicate where your sympathies lie, and they are not with Rifqa. If this ends badly, and although it would be of little consolation to Rifqa, may you be the person to whom the bills for the making final arrangements (coroner, funeral and cremation/burial, etc.) are sent. God will undoubtedly want to have a few words with you, too, at the appropriate time.
Hey,
I don't have much sympathy for Yom here, he's a big boy and can take the verbal abuse. I also don't have the desire to leave anyone with the impression that I'd like to "moderate" anyone. However, I do send students and church members to this site and the kind of language on this thread would discourage me from doing so in the future.
As far as our sister Rifqa is concerned, when I lived in Texas and worked with youth, 17 year olds were not picked up by the police and could not be involuntarily committed. If she had run to a different state, we might have a completely different situation.
Our government needs to classify Islam with all other religious groups which have advocacy of violence and ethnic/religious hatred as part of their creed. People can join a Christian Identity group (white supremists) but they will be subject to more scrutiny and a shorter leash.
And the dismissing of Rifqa's reports about her father's threats and violence is CRIMINAL NEGLECT and a violation of her civil rights. The governor of Ohio, because of his involvement in this situation, is personally morally responsible for her safety - both here and in Sri Lanka.