"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued." -- Koran 9:29
"Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them....If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them." -- Sahih Muslim 4294
"If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess [i.e., a slave girl]..." -- Koran 4:3
Feel the love. "Taliban in Pakistan Warns Christian Leaders to Convert to Islam or Face Dire Consequences," from International Christian Concern via AINA, October 16 (thanks to Weasel Zippers):
Washington -- International Christian Concern (ICC) has learned that on October 6, members of the Taliban sent threatening letters in Sargodha, Pakistan warning Christian leaders to convert to Islam or face dire consequences.A copy of the letter obtained by ICC warns Christians to convert to Islam, pay Jizya tax (an Islamic tax imposed on religious minorities) or leave the country. If Christians refuse to accept the choices given to them, the letter explains that they "would be killed, their property and homes would be burnt to ashes and their women would be treated as sex slaves. And they themselves would be responsible for this."
Rev. Zaheer Khan, pastor of Maghoo Memorial Church, Rev. Aamir Azeem, pastor of United Christians Church and Rev. Zafar Akhter, pastor of United Presbyterian Church each received a copy of threatening letter.
The Islamists sent the letters to the following Christian institutions: St Peter's Middle School, Sargodha Institute of Technology, Sargodha Catholic High School, St John's Primary School and Fatima Hospital.
Besides the Christian institutions, the letter was also sent to the main Immam-Bar-Gha (Shiite Muslim's gathering hall). Shiites are a minority Muslim group in Pakistan where the majority of the population is Sunni Muslim....
"And they themselves would be responsible for this."
So let's get this right - if Christians are just going about their business, trying to eke out a living in the hellhole that is any Islamic country, and to raise their children, and to avoid causing any trouble, but their only "crime" is to keep their faith and no convert to Islam, then they are responsible for any Muslim attacks that may occur? They are responsible for their own deaths, destruction of their own property, and their women being taken as sex slaves?
There are no words to describe how warped and perverted this kind of thinking is.
Pardon me - I mistakenly referred to this as thinking. It has nothing to do with logic, but then this is the reality of Islam.
"I attacked you, but it's your fault I attacked you."
The language of the schoolyard bully.
Quickly now, call Dinesh D'Sousa and Yosuf Estes and CAIR's Mr Hooper, and Abdullah Mickail, and Dave742 and others and tell them to contact the Pakistani Muslims and remind them that Islam is a religion of peace with no compulsion...obviously there must be some misunderstanding of Islam going on in Pakistan...
Of course, not to be accused of Islamophobia, one must not point all this out or if one does then it's incumbent upon such a person to tu quoque all over the place and point out how many times numerous Presbyterians, Catholics, Methodists and other Christians pretty much act just like the Taliban do. Otherwise, you're nothing but a hater. Yeah, that's what one must do to avoid opprobrium cast one's way in this silly world we live in.
Of course, regular JW posters have said to hell with that long ago. Hey, hope springs eternal.
"Besides the Christian institutions, the letter was also sent to the main Immam-Bar-Gha (Shiite Muslim's gathering hall). Shiites are a minority Muslim group in Pakistan where the majority of the population is Sunni Muslim...." -- above
No, that can't be! Senator John Kerry stated on "Meet the Press" today that there are no Shiites in Pakistan or Afghanistan!
Now, if this were to be the Kaffir threatening to rape anyone who did NOT leave Islam the MSM would be all over it.
But - as we know - the Jews control the media so.....no wait a minute - if the Jews control the media like so many muppets believe, why is Israel always the bad guy and it's always Muslims who get to spout their crap in the MSM? Something ain't adding up....
I've decided we should all stick out heads in the sand and wait for this to all blow over. Hey - what could possibly go wrong?
Prophet Muhammad ran a racketeering scheme, too, so why shouldn't the Taliban? ...good and devout Mohammedans must follow Mo's evil example.
Muhammad was a murderer, thief and sexual predator as well -- so see, it all fits.
Islam is evil!
I've got to hand it to the Taliban Thugs -- not many murderers, extortionists and rapists distribute their evil intentions in WRITING. I just love how smart these guys are.
The sad thing is, that while I don't buy tu quoque arguments, I've been having a running argument on YouTube (at that video that was posted here earlier, with the Muslimes calling for Geert Wilders' head in London) with a Catholic who is just as whacked out as they are; this is a person who wants to see a "Catholic state" erected that, while it might protect us from Muslim slavery, would seem to me to also make women into nothing but baby-makers. "Adult entertainments" cause "corruption" and of course should be curtailed, etc etc. (I am an adult, who lives an adult, kid-free lifestyle, and why should I worry about what other people's kids might think?) This person's vision of a theocracy is no better than the Muslims', IMO, and is the kind of garbage one sees from Christians of various sorts from time to time that makes atheists like myself leery of them.
I suggested to the commenter that perhaps they would be happy going to a Sharia state with their fellow co-religious fascists.
Thanks for your reply, Spirit Wolf. As for that Catholic you mentioned, I think he would be in an extremely small minority among his fellow Catholics, whereas one could find untold millions of Muslims who would be sympathetic to most or all of the Taliban's aims. Moreover, Catholicism doesn't call for a theocracy ("Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's") while the Islamic theological blueprint demands no separation of the spiritual and secular. Seems to me the Taliban, disgusting as they are, read Islam more or less correctly while your Catholic acquaintance truly does misunderstand his religion, though on the abortion issue Catholicism certainly is doctrinally against all contraceptive measures except the rhythm method and the old joke about that one is, "What do you call people who use the rhythm method?" Parents.
Chance for a two fer,
If your hate your wife and mother in law and they like to ski there is an opportunity for you in this latest news.
There are ski resorts in Pakistan located in/near the Swat valley. You might want to surprise them with an early Christmas gift of an exotic ski vacation.
Book now, with the recent news the exclusive ski lodge will likely fill up quickly.
http://www.tourtopakistan.com/pakistan-adventure-destinations/malam-jabba-ski-resort-pakistan.html
most of the visitors are western women, see pictures
http://www.travel-culture.com/pakistan/ht/PTDC_resort_Malam_Jabba.shtml
http://pakdeas.com/pt/pswat.html
Note: this site offers discounted Pakistan beach resorts! Wife doesnt like to ski rather swim, you will be in luck.
http://www.sevenseastourism.com/asia/pakistan/malamjabbamotel/
GM - its their culture. or should I say "cult". What is evil to us is the holy word of their god Allah to them. There is no possibility of ever meeting with them and believing they have a moral background that is shared with us. They are fundamentally tribal, and not far removed from savages. Again and again their Koran repeats the same stuff - that is where they got it.
It is the world's misfortune that the "leader of the free world" does not understand this.
Oops, I forgot; he lost that title to Netenyahu when he got the Nobel Peace Prize-likely for mouthing the "Islam is peace" line - since he has done nothing else.
Spirit World
Your 'Catholic' informant is a heretic and an idiot who doesn't even know the beginning catechism. Man MUST have freedom to act or not act and freedom to think because freedom of will and human intelligence are sacred aspects of our humanity. Tell this moro, religious bully that if God wanted to 'make' us love him He certainly could. And if God doesn't do this who the hell is he/she to do so!
Spirit Wolf
it might be wise to bear in mind *where* the discussion was taking place: "on YouTube (at that video that was posted here earlier, with the Muslimes calling for Geert Wilders' head in London".
Are you completely sure that your 'Catholic' interlocutor was in fact a Catholic?
It is entirely possible that it might be a Mohammedan in a mask, pretending to be a Catholic in order to obtain, from non-Catholic Infidels, precisely the response it has gotten from *you*. And thus it achieves the result it desires: to 'split the camp' of the Infidels.
I recall a poster here, some time ago, explaining that Mohammedan sh*t-stirrers would go to a Jewish site and pose as 'Christians' and say offensive things about Jews, and thus stir up enmity between Jews and Christians; then they would go to a 'Christian' site posing as a Jew, under a Jewish name, and say offensive things about Christians. Or pose as a Christian who had been harmed by the evil Jooz (same deal on the Jewish site: pose as a Jew and tell nasty tales about Christian wrongdoing it had suffered)...'War is deceit'.
Look up 'Truth About Mohammed', pages 127-128, for the story of Nu'aym bin Mas'ud.
"A new convert [to Islam] Nu'aym bin Mas'ud, came to the Prophet with a proposition: since his own people, the Ghatafan, did not know that he had become a Muslim, Muhammad could perhaps make use of him to gain an advantage over his enemies. Muhammad immediately recognised the potential of the situation, saying, 'You are only one man among us, *so go and awake distrust among the enemies* {my emphasis - dda} to draw them off us if you can, for war is deceit".
(And off went Nu'aym to tell tales about the Jews to the Quraysh and Ghatafan to make them distrust the Jews, and then to tell tales to the Jews to make them distrust the Quraysh and Ghatafan).
Just a further comment on Spirit Wolf's give and take with a "Catholic" adversary. Even assuming that this person is truly a Catholic, who among sensible and informed persons would think such an individual or his ilk is on the same level with radical Muslims? Until Catholics cut off heads, take hostages, blow themselves up in public places, hijack planes and fly them into skyscrapers and threaten those who disagree with them with death, I'll take any Catholic over Muslims any day of the week. Were all the Muslim world to wake up tomorrow devout Catholics, who of sense could doubt we would be living in an infinitely better world? Besides, lots of Catholic babies will help negate the Islamic demographic jihad.
There is a Catholic state that already exists, It is called the Vatican. Rules and laws coming from the Vatican/ Pope
are supposed to be obeyed by all Catholics. Most Catholics
take it all in with a grain salt. However anyone working for the church must stick very closely to the governing rules
coming out of the Vatican. If not you could very well find
yourself answering to the local Bishop. I have stated many
times the Vatican should be doing way more to support/protect
Catholics and other Christians from persecution around the
world.However in my opinion leadership in this area has
been badly lacking.The Catholic Church is the only
Christian organization which has the money, history,
international clout and sub organizations that could really
make a stand against Muslim aggression.
"I am an adult, who lives an adult, kid-free lifestyle, and why should I worry about what other people's kids might think?"
Um, I don't know...let me think...
You really want to go with that one, Spirit Wolf?
Hi all:
Arms them to the teeth so that they not only defend themselves but teach the Taliban a lesson in swift, uncompromising justice. Live by the sword die by teh sword.
Islamists only understand force and the more bruttally and ruthless it's applied to them they back off while snivelling nausatingly about dire revenge(tm)
xavier
Thanks, folks, for a couple of points made here, and I just want to follow up on 'em.
First of all, yeah, I did make that accusation that this was a Muslim in disguise (or at the very least, someone who would be more comfortable with them than, say, any of the Catholics I've ever known; people who, basically, couldn't give a damn what I do in my private life. And I've had enough Catholic friends and neighbours in the past to know the difference.
This person came more and more to appear Muslimesque as I goaded further (I was also kind of having a bit of fun, and sometimes playing the troll yourself can draw the other one out more. It also helps deflect a little any charges of racism, and besides, this person started calling for genocide of atheists at one point) I haven't checked into those comments yet today (but here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=det7TUsLy8U&page=3)
Hey, it's a hobby. :P