U.K.: Jihadist preacher Anjem Choudary calls on Queen to convert to Islam

The invitation to Islam has long been a prelude to war if the invited party fails to return an RSVP in the affirmative:

Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war…When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them….If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah’s help and fight them. (Sahih Muslim 4294)

That hadith restates and elaborates upon Qur’an 9:29, which offers unbelievers conversion, subjugation or death:

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Choudary is not deluding himself that the Queen is likely to break into programming on the BBC and recite the shahada, the Islamic profession of faith. He’s just following protocol. “Hate preacher tells Queen: Turn Muslim,” by Simon Hughes for Sun, October 18:

Hate preacher Anjem Choudary sparked fury yesterday after calling for the Queen to become Muslim.

He demanded an Islamic revolution across Britain.

Choudary, 42, said Her Majesty – head of the Church of England – should convert to ensure her place in paradise.

He also wants to see senior members of the Government switching faiths. Choudary, a key henchman of rabble rousing cleric Omar Bakri, said: “We invite everyone from the Queen, to the ministers, to the Parliament, to the aristocracy, to the ordinary person in Britain to embrace Islam.

“Save yourself and your children in this life from misery and prepare them for a great destiny in the hereafter.”

He made his call during an internet rant to promote a march in London later this month supporting Sharia law.

The ex-lawyer also made a scathing reference to the next general election, declaring: “Britain does not need a new leader, it needs a revolution – an Islamic revolution.”

Labour MP Andrew Dismore said: “It’d be laughable if we didn’t know that some take this man seriously.” A Muslim group branded Choudary an “extremist nut”.

That was MPACUK, the Muslim Public Affairs Committee in the U.K., seizing on a moment at which Choudary’s “extremism” might make them look “moderate,” though their own track record is none too impressive, either.

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Comments

  1. says

    I wouldn’t be shocked if 20 political representatives ended up urging the Queen to convert to Islam because of this threat. I mean, Britain’s gotta keep their Muslims happy at all costs, right?

  2. says

    “Save yourself and your children in this life from misery…”

    Choudary’s above exhortation refers to what the citizens of Britain can expect in this life at the hands of Muslims if they do not submit. It can have no other meaning. It is a threat.

  3. says

    Salam,

    Many ofcourse will laugh at this suggestion. Indeed, it made me smile too.

    Islam though is not a religion like the C of E, wishy washy watered down and fuzzy. NO, it stands imperious and unchanging, stroong and disciplined.

    The same questions will be asked again and again, generation upon generation, until someday, someone like Price Charles will say “Yes, I’ll do it, C of E is so sterile, boring and dwindling in numbers. Further, all their clergy are boring 70 year olds, c of E is in decline.”

    Compare this to young vibrant imams who carry their korans in their hearts, knowing it off by heart from the age of 6, “how many of my 70 year olds know the bible off by heart?”

    So others than the idiot chaudry will ask the same questions, and others rather than this crop of Royals and MPs will say yes.

    If you still don’t believe me, remember they said yes in Morroco and Yemen and Indonesia and Somalia and Lebonan and Turkey.

    Folks, if you have an inkling for living life to the full, please please don’t hesitate; join at a mosque near you; there has never been a better time than now.

  4. says

    THE queen convert hmm i wounder did mr Choudary eat to many lead based paint chips as a child?? queen Elizabeth II is 83
    and has been head of the church of England for over 50 years
    and is very unlikely to recite the shehada just because he thinks she should. could it be what this cracked pot really wants England to become Muslim for is so he might stand a chance of getting into parliament or to 10 downing st??? he very much reminds me of herr Hitler with his rabble rousing
    but imo Hitler was a bit smarter though mr Choudary may have a bigger mouth but a much smaller following

  5. says

    You seem utterly clueless respecting what Pat Condell has noted several times and that is that your ordinary Brit has become sick of Islam, all of it. Done here.

    But the punch line here is that a frank and open discussion of this awful belief system is not at all possible in the UK, or in the USA or anywhere else, for that matter.

    *** 4:142 ***

    A Muslim group branded Choudary an “extremist nut”.

    Now that’s the pot calling the kettle black. And the fact that such a ridiculous statement as this is not met with derisive laughter from the entire population of England, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland is the central problem.

    For example, Condell is heard by what, one tenth of one percent of those populations?

  6. says

    seemz. What kind of wishy washy watered down and fuzzy post is that? You will hardly provoke any response with that one.

    NO, it stands imperious and unchanging….

    Except that every other mohametan has a different take on it. So the cult system is indeed without peer in it’s tendency to bring chaos and death to it’s followers at the hands of other followers. Witness your supposed homeland Najistan. Pure chaos. Welcome to death. Welcome to islam. Stroong indeed you twit!

    nabi ZK (pbum)

  7. says

    I don’t suppose this means that “Andy” Choudary wants to make the Queen a “right hand possession”.

    Your Majesty, “let slip the dogs of war”! Release the Corgis! I hear “Andy” is afraid of dogs.

  8. says

    To The Majesty of England, Queen Elizabeth the Second

    My Sovereign Lady, Your Majesty

    I suggest that you remember those who preceded you in your high office – for example, your forefather King Alfred the Great, and your Cousin-Many-Times-Removed, your namesake, Elizabeth the First, and think about what good down-to-earth Anglo-Saxon words they might have used, to tell this insolent Mohammedan thug exactly where to go and what to do and where to put his Invitation to Turn Muslim.

    Queen Elizabeth the First, had an insolent Mohammedan dared to speak to her as this one has done to you, Madam, would have summarily dealt with him; she who ordered all the church bells in England rung in jubilation, and a special prayer of thanksgiving to be recited, after she heard the good news that the Knights of St John had successfully held the Island of Malta against the Ottoman Turkish Muslim fleet.

    I your subject most humbly pray that you will have a discreet word with M15 or some such, about the proper disposal of one Anjem Choudary.

  9. says

    Labour MP Andrew Dismore said: “It’d be laughable if we didn’t know that some take this man seriously.”

    Yes, we all remember that clown Hitler and those buffoons, fat Goering, and thin Goebbels, and the unspeakable Himmler, and all the others. What a joke. Everyone was right to laugh at them. And fortunately Chaplin made “The Great Dictator” showing how silly and crazy Hitler was, and that was the end of the matter. Nothing was heard from that comical rabble again.

  10. says

    Yom

    Do you realise how absurd you sound? These “young, vibrant imams” carry nothing in their hearts but hatred. Many “70 year olds” are fully conversant with their Scriptures, but we are not encouraged to mindlessly recite the contents of the Bible, rather to study and apply the teachings to our lives. Also, the C of E is not in itself a ‘religion’.

    I had to laugh at the thought of our devout Christian Queen opening Parliament wearing a burqa. Would she be permitted to wear the State Crown on top of it? Time for some artistic person to draw a cartoon of this vision!

  11. says

    Adjem just needs a little cash and is trying to extort some from the Queen…If she does not respond to his demands, he will have another fit and call on Allah to send destroying angels to visit Buckingham…He should be arrested for attempted extortion…

  12. says

    And fortunately Chaplin made “The Great Dictator” showing how silly and crazy Hitler was, and that was the end of the matter. Nothing was heard from that comical rabble again.

    Moreover, no such satire is forthcoming for Islam. Albeit comical (in the sense of black comedy) their leadership is disippated, decentralized, and dissolute.

    *** 4:65 ***

    It’s not just that there are no longer artists as courageous as Chaplin, it’s also that the requirement is to satirize Mohammed himself.

  13. says

    Anjem Choudbury actually has said there are only three types of Muslim:

    Those in prison, those on their way to prison and those who don’t practice.
    Let’s hope he ends up in the first category soon.

  14. says

    Anjem Choudbury actually has said there are only three types of Muslim: Those in prison, those on their way to prison and those who don’t practice.

    Let’s hope he ends up in the first category soon.

    A fourth type of Moslem is possible. In fact this type exists throughout Dar al-Islam: Those lving under the blissful control of Islam.

    *** 33:22 ***

    Anjem should keep a more positive attitude. His crew is on a roll, moving the ball down the field with every play. To any Moslem, doing time in the Cause is a small victory unto itself. This is why so many Afro-Americans convert to Islam in jail. It feels so good to have a channel through which can flow the bitterness of a caught felon.

  15. says

    “the Queen, to the ministers, to the Parliament, to the aristocracy…” … should convert to stand up officials with spines.

  16. says

    “It’s not just that there are no longer artists as courageous as Chaplin, it’s also that the requirement is to satirize Mohammed himself.”

    Indeed. Not only was Chaplin perfectly free, career-wise, to make his movie mocking Hitler; he was positively encouraged to do so, and it was an enormous boost to his career. It was only later when he expressed sympathies with Communism that he was ostracized.

    Today, any actor or director who would dare to make an equivalent film with merciless glee mocking Mohammed would find his career ruined and his life turned into a round-the-clock fear of being murdered by maniac Muslims. But more likely than not, such an actor or director would not even attempt to make the film in the first place. Even worse, there probably doesn’t exist — among the thousands of individuals out there, from Hollywood to equally PC MC “Bollywood”, capable of launching a film standing a chance of making a splash — one individual who even has the desire to make such a “bigoted” film. One can only hold the slenderest hope there might be lurking in the wings a new nobody-turned-Tarantino with a devastating anti-Islam script under his arm, a Reservoir Camels.

  17. says

    Wellington’s riposte was characteristically cogent and spot-on, but ‘Pig Farmer’ also has a point. I remember reading recently about a British girl who was drugged, kidnapped, and repeatedly raped by two Muslim immigrants. As she recounted her horror, she kept insisting she wasn’t a racist, though there needn’t have been any connotation about race in her story. It made me nauseous, the fact that she felt the need to qualify her anger with such a disclaimer.

    The average Brit may indeed be “sick of Islam”, but the British elite shows no sign of loosening the shackles of the multicultural “ethic” upon their people, and those people – true feelings notwithstanding – remain disoriented and fearful as the branding-iron of ‘racism’ hovers above them menacingly as they try to get on with their daily lives.

  18. says

    “Save yourself and your children in this life from misery and prepare them for a great destiny in the hereafter.”

    The sad thing is that the average person of Christian heritage who reads that sentence is likely to interpret it as meaning that converting Islam would bring emotional comfort in this life and the inner strength to lead a productive and successful life. He would have no idea that “misery in this life” really refers to the persecution, terror, and death that Choudary and his Mohammedan buddies intend to inflict on him and his children if they do not submit to Islamic law forthwith.

  19. says

    “the British elite shows no sign of loosening the shackles of the multicultural “ethic” upon their people, and those people – true feelings notwithstanding – remain disoriented and fearful as the branding-iron of ‘racism’ hovers above them menacingly as they try to get on with their daily lives.”

    This way of characterizing our sociocultural predicament sorely underestimates the problem of ordinary people really sincerely believing in PC MC. The description above may be applicable for a minority, but I fear the majority are true believers in PC MC.

    Take, for example, popular entertainment. For decades, popular entertainment has become a big business. The producers of movies and TV shows in the free capitalist West above all care about the bottom line, profits. They tend to be leery of putting out a product that rub the public the wrong way, ideologically or aesthetically. They make it their business to know what the public wants. Of course, they are not always correct, but they have millions of dollars at stake, and they have been at it for years. For the most part, they know how to take the pulse of the public.

    Consider that for seven solid seasons, England had a popular TV show, MI-5 (or “Spooks”), whose main stories dealt week after week with varous permutations of the problem of terrorists. The show ran from 2002 to 2008. I have now watched every show. I’d estimate that about 85% of the “terrorism” depicted on that show had nothing to do with Islam at all, but rather with a motley series of usual suspects — IRA; retro-Soviet Communists; vaguely Eastern European gangsters (including a Serbian leader who had committed “atrocities”); eco-terrorists; rogue Americans (a businessman here, a renegade CIA agent there); a rogue Frenchman; a white racist group; and so forth. Of the remaining 15% that involved Muslim terrorists, every single one was massively buffered and padded with every possible way to ensure that the Muslims were depicted as part of a tiny minority of extremists either trying to twist the good teachings of Islam or not even demonstrating any overt Islamicity at all — with of course good Muslims in the script to make sure to present the good face of Islam. A few times among this 15%, the Muslim terrorist factor was dissolved insofar as the real strings of the terrorist threat was being pulled by larger forces (usually some sinister Western cabal). The real terrorist incident to afflict England, 7/7, occurred smack dab in the middle of the seven-year run of MI-5 and it exerted zero effect on its overall tendency to avoid the subject of Islamic terrorism when it could, and to preposterously whitewash it whenever they did feature it.

    In a free capitalist democratic country, this kind of popular entertainment fare does not represent a cabal of “elites” Orwellianly trying to brainwash the masses. To view it this way is to reveal a curious state of alienation from one’s own West. What this kind of popular entertainment fare reflects is what the public wants, for the most part, which is the bottom line for the businessmen who are the engines of all public entertainment. While of course there is a powerful element of what Cornelius describes as “…true feelings notwithstanding – remain disoriented and fearful as the branding-iron of ‘racism’ hovers above them menacingly as they try to get on with their daily lives” — this psychocultural phenomenon also pertains to the “elites” — the producers, writers, directors and actors who together produce public entertainment. PC MC is not some alien propaganda being imposed upon the masses by an Elite. It is the general sociopolitico-cultural ether shared by all, elites and ordinary people, all having gone through the same sea change in consciousness together over the past 60-odd years — an ether from which only a small minority are extricating themselves, more and more so slowly but surely, yet still at a snail’s pace.

  20. says

    That Choudary feels confident enough to publicly call upon the Queen and the rest to convert to Islam is very interesting. Given the already dhimmified attitude prevalent through British society these days (at least, it looks dhimmified from the US side of the pond) it’s not surprising Choudary is feeling his chops. He probably believes the British won’t resist Islamification and anyone calling for traditional British values has been successfully demonized and marginalized as racists and bigots. This of course with the help of Leftist useful idiots, of course.

    And as I keep reminding my fellow Americans, with Leftist useful idiots running the US Government from Obama on down, and our MSM’s complicity in the process, what’s happening in Europe and the U.K. can happen here. It’s only a matter of time unless people start to wise up.

  21. says

    That Choudary feels confident enough to publicly call upon the Queen and the rest to convert to Islam is very interesting. Given the already dhimmified attitude prevalent through British society these days (at least, it looks dhimmified from the US side of the pond) it’s not surprising Choudary is feeling his chops. He probably believes the British won’t resist Islamification and anyone calling for traditional British values has been successfully demonized and marginalized as racists and bigots. This of course with the help of Leftist useful idiots, of course.

    And as I keep reminding my fellow Americans, with Leftist useful idiots running the US Government from Obama on down, and our MSM’s complicity in the process, what’s happening in Europe and the U.K. can happen here. It’s only a matter of time unless people start to wise up.

  22. says

    From post above: …Good observation:::…”an ether from which only a small minority are extricating themselves, more and more so slowly but surely, yet still at a snail’s pace”…

    The reason it is hard to extricate oneself, is that the clever have a lot of tricks that work…The way to get over being tricked is to get over being tricked…I think you
    are beyond that, but the distracted majority are not…It’s easy to trick them…It used to be called…’Shucking and jiving’…now it’s called political and/or self serving speech…All politicians, and used car dealers use it…

  23. says

    Infidel Pride,

    If a Muslim or two in the USA decided to stand out on a street corner calling on Obama to convert to Islam and otherwise saying the same things as Choudary, the general reaction would be “he’s exercising his right of free speech, he represents only a tiny minority of extremists who have nothing to do with the good teachings of Islam, most American Muslims are decent productive members of society — and anyway, what about the Crusades, the Inquisition, slavery, the genocide of the American Indians, Vietnam, Hiroshima, Bush and Jerry Falwell?”

    (After all, we’ve seen a group of Muslims on the street corner in New York City burning an American flag and denouncing the United States — and what happened to them? What was the reaction of passersby? Apparently, they just walked on by and ignored them.)

    That would be the general reaction among Americans, at any rate — at least among those few who would even bother to notice it in the first place. I.e., Americans are more or less just as proto-dhimmified as the rest of the West.

  24. says

    What I notice is that no one has suggested what the uproar would be in the converse case.

    What would happen if the Archbishop of Canterbury (one could dream he had such a spine) called to Muslims in England to convert to Christianity.

    How many deaths? How much destruction in the ensuing riots? Just from a verbal call/suggestion?

    How long till he was stripped of his position? Or killed?

  25. says

    duh_swami, I think you misunderstood my main point: the masses in the free West are not being deceived: they are sincerely deceiving themselves. It’s a much more complex psychological and sociological phenomenon than one explained through the rather simplistic mechanism of a small cabal of “clever” manipulators over here, and the masses of ordinary people over there being manipulated. PC MC represents the vast majority in complex ways manipulating themselves — and two crucial aspects of this self-manipulation are: sincerity, and genuinely good values. Without these two aspects that pertain to PC MC, intermixed with all the harmful aspects, PC MC would be enjoy the broad and deep traction it does in fact possess.

  26. says

    Woops — correction to my last post (corrected word in caps):

    “Without these two aspects that pertain to PC MC, intermixed with all the harmful aspects, PC MC would NOT enjoy the broad and deep traction it does in fact possess.

  27. says

    From today’s BBC:

    “I am sure there will be people in the west Midlands scratching their heads to explain why it is that eight of the 20 constituencies with the highest percentage of people with no qualifications are in their region.

    Well, one answer is that most of those areas have large Pakistani and Bangladeshi populations which include a sizeable proportion of first-generation immigrants from poor, rural areas of the sub-continent”.

    This is what Her Majesty has been asked to join, an ignorant, uneducated rabble of primitive peasants. I have not got the details of the other 12 constituencies outside the Midlands but I am sure the demographics will be the same. According to the UK govt. statistics, whilst 67% of Indian (Read Hindu) girls get 5 goods GSCE’s, only 22% of Pakistani and Bangladeshi boys manage to achieve it.

  28. says

    From today’s BBC:

    “I am sure there will be people in the west Midlands scratching their heads to explain why it is that eight of the 20 constituencies with the highest percentage of people with no qualifications are in their region.

    Well, one answer is that most of those areas have large Pakistani and Bangladeshi populations which include a sizeable proportion of first-generation immigrants from poor, rural areas of the sub-continent”.

    This is what Her Majesty has been asked to join, an ignorant, uneducated rabble of primitive peasants. I have not got the details of the other 12 constituencies outside the Midlands but I am sure the demographics will be the same. According to the UK govt. statistics, whilst 67% of Indian (Read Hindu) girls get 5 goods GSCE’s, only 22% of Pakistani and Bangladeshi boys manage to achieve it.

  29. says

    … the masses in the free West are not being deceived: they are sincerely deceiving themselves. It’s a much more complex psychological and sociological phenomenon than one explained through the rather simplistic mechanism of a small cabal of “clever” manipulators…

    This is the central problem, perhaps the biggest single problem facing Mankind today, perhaps even since 1,400 yrs ago. I call the cognitive dissonance phenomenon you aptly describe Fictive Reality. But I don’t wanna repeat myself here.

    *** 79:1 ***

    But they certainly have no problem repeating themselves ad nauseum here, there, or anywhere, whether by procreation or by the metronomic wagging of their hairy tongues.

  30. says

    Yom said: “Compare this to young vibrant imams who carry their korans in their hearts, knowing it off by heart from the age of 6″

    Who cares who can memorize manure? Manure is manure whether one memorizes or not.

    Some of the most dynamic, attractive movements on earth have been some of the most evil. Take Nazism, for example. Take the Jim Jones group, for another. Take the Manson family. Then there are some of the larger street gangs, drug cartels, organized crime groups. I am sure others could come up with many more.

    Islam is all about power and power is attractive to those who don’t understand or believe the catastrophic consequences of the unbridled exercise of brutal, sociopathic power.

    So don’t bother gloating about how “dynamic” or “exciting” it is to be in Islam. I would never dispute that. Evil IS dynamic and exciting.

    BTW, Anjem Choudary is a putz.

  31. says

    Alarmed Pig Farmer,

    “I call the cognitive dissonance phenomenon you aptly describe Fictive Reality. But I don’t wanna repeat myself here.”

    I call it Quantum Ignorance.

    It’s not ordinary ignorance. With ordinary ignorance, it’s a matter of not knowing all the facts, and/or knowing some corrupted factoids. With Quantum Ignorance, the person may know the facts, but still comes to the wrong conclusion. The reason is that between the facts coming into the brain, and the conclusion coming out, there is a complex filtering mechanism that processes the incoming data in such a way as to conform to the prevailing paradigm. Actually, in many respects, this is the way normal human thought operates anyway. The problem thus is not in the existence of this mechanism. The problem is that a defective paradigm is dominant in Western societies. It is not defective in all ways; indeed, in many ways, it is a quite good paradigm. But with respect to the problem of Muslims, it is grievously flawed. This particular paradigm has grown organically throughout Western societies to become dominant and mainstream over the past 60-odd years — a paradigm that, with respect to the problem presented by Muslims, effectively re-routes all damning evidence about them and serves to continue to whitewash and protect them.

  32. says

    Yom : Islam though is not a religion ….. NO, it stands imperious and unchanging, stroong and disciplined.

    Correct on most counts, Yom.

    We all know islam is a cult, not a religion. Imperious in the sense of it being marked by arrogant assurance, sure. Unchanging….check that box and it’s not a positive trait. Strong, but only in the ‘schoolyard bully’ interpretation of the word. Disciplined? Brain-washing gives one a sense of control, I suppose.

    The yelping dog Choudary is fortunate that no one takes he too seriously. When the day comes he is viewed as a real threat he’ll disappear in a puff of SAS issued flash-bang grenade, never to be seen again.

  33. says

    Hesp,

    You contradict yourself…first insisting that TV productions reflect popular values and sentiment…and then suggesting that yes, the psychological dhimmitude of the elite is manifest (“the producers, writers, directors and actors who together produce public entertainment”).

    Hollywood (and the British version of it) hardly reflects popular sentiment…at least that’s my opinion. Neither one of us can know what is said behind closed doors in the privacy of homes, but my guess is that it tends to vary significantly from the public personna and “ethics” that most convey. Some people are so liberal and brainwashed that they actually believe the spiel…but I happen to think most are just like you and me, aware of the bullshit that constitutes the PC/MC ethos, but unwilling to jeopardize their careers and/or reputations by going public with their beliefs.

  34. says

    PS – Hollywood continues to produce movie after movie attacking the Iraq war, even though none make any real money; the ideology of our elites often trump the bottom line.

  35. says

    @Hesperado & Alarmed Pig Farmer

    I have enjoyed reading your thoughts and agree generally, however I think if you add a spiritual element to the problem it becomes clearer. When I say spiritual I am referring to the fact that most western peoples have abandoned their Christian values and are at a loose to counter the claims of Islam. But because they have dismissed there own spiritual roots they dismiss Islamic values as well.

    An example of what I am talking about is the question poised to Geert Wilders press conference. The reporter said something like,”How can you seriously equate 9/11 & 7/7 to a book that was written hundreds of years ago. People will say that its just nonsense and gibberish and that your a racists.” This condescending remark shows the spiritual backwardness or shallowness of most western people. I would say more in Europe than in the US but that is just my humble opinion.

    In my home town there is a debate over a Christian street preacher being allowed to speak (First Amendment aside). I saw him yesterday and also noticed a small number (two) observing and then later talking to police about their displeasure. Most were ignoring the preacher or listing for a minute or so and moving on. My point is that most western people don’t want to hear or think about spiritual subjects unless they are in church.

    Just my 2 cents worth.

  36. says

    The problem is that a defective paradigm is dominant in Western societies. It is not defective in all ways; indeed, in many ways, it is a quite good paradigm. But with respect to the problem of Muslims, it is grievously flawed.

    *** 9:103 ***

    My estimate is that the Islam Fictive Reality derives from the convergence of four things:

    1) Islam’s unquestioned success in taking for itself a fake status as a religion

    2) That deep down in Western consciousness in its historical memory lurks a true dread of Islam, probably going all the way back to the days of the Jihadi pirates in the Med, when all those Europeans disappeared from our shores and were taken as slaves to Moslems.

    There had to be some talk amongst the affected white folk at the time of what was going on. How was that shock internalized?

    3) Modern consciuosness, in particular the formation of opinion, is heavily affected by media, which renders openly criticizing “beleagured” ethnic groups or a religion unthinkable.

    4) Islam’s penchant for centralism and victimism dovetails almost perfectly with Marxism, the ascendant political theory of our day because it offers Other People’s Money. OPM is always attractive to the masses.

  37. says

    The problem is that a defective paradigm is dominant in Western societies. It is not defective in all ways; indeed, in many ways, it is a quite good paradigm. But with respect to the problem of Muslims, it is grievously flawed.

    *** 9:103 ***

    My estimate is that the Islam Fictive Reality derives from the convergence of four things:

    1) Islam’s unquestioned success in taking for itself a fake status as a religion

    2) That deep down in Western consciousness in its historical memory lurks a true dread of Islam, probably going all the way back to the days of the Jihadi pirates in the Med, when all those Europeans disappeared from our shores and were taken as slaves to Moslems.

    There had to be some talk amongst the affected white folk at the time of what was going on. How was that shock internalized?

    3) Modern consciuosness, in particular the formation of opinion, is heavily affected by media, which renders openly criticizing “beleagured” ethnic groups or a religion unthinkable.

    4) Islam’s penchant for centralism and victimism dovetails almost perfectly with Marxism, the ascendant political theory of our day because it offers Other People’s Money. OPM is always attractive to the masses.

  38. says

    The problem is that a defective paradigm is dominant in Western societies. It is not defective in all ways; indeed, in many ways, it is a quite good paradigm. But with respect to the problem of Muslims, it is grievously flawed.

    *** 9:103 ***

    My estimate is that the Islam Fictive Reality derives from the convergence of four things:

    1) Islam’s unquestioned success in taking for itself a fake status as a religion

    2) That deep down in Western consciousness in its historical memory lurks a true dread of Islam, probably going all the way back to the days of the Jihadi pirates in the Med, when all those Europeans disappeared from our shores and were taken as slaves to Moslems.

    There had to be some talk amongst the affected white folk at the time of what was going on. How was that shock internalized?

    3) Modern consciuosness, in particular the formation of opinion, is heavily affected by media, which renders openly criticizing “beleagured” ethnic groups or a religion unthinkable.

    4) Islam’s penchant for centralism and victimism dovetails almost perfectly with Marxism, the ascendant political theory of our day because it offers Other People’s Money. OPM is always attractive to the masses.

  39. says

    Choudary might have had more success if he had made this offer to Prince Charles, it grieves me to say.

    But the threat…”Save yourself and your children in this life from misery”… will in all probability be seen by most people as Buddhist-themed. The Muslim proselytisers in the West have a way of doing this; in our multicultural, interfaith, airy-fairy environment, they appropriate moods, ideas and words to bolster their claim that they have the only religion the world needs. I have seen this before, e.g. talking about their “spiritual journey” in Islam. Spiritual journey? In Islam? But many people, as they have encountered fragments of the religions of the world, will consider such words to be harmless, or even attractive. And Choudary, et al, still remain true to their Islam: they know it is a threat, they know they are being sneaky, and they know they will get away with it.

    (I would be interested to find out how many European converts to Sufism toyed earlier with Buddhism, Krishna Consciousness, Yoga, etc. Fashion favours Sufism now. It’s cool.)

  40. says

    Cornelius,

    “You contradict yourself…first insisting that TV productions reflect popular values and sentiment…and then suggesting that yes, the psychological dhimmitude of the elite is manifest (“the producers, writers, directors and actors who together produce public entertainment”).”

    No.

    1) When I suggest that PC MC affects a broader demographic than merely elites, that doesn’t mean I have to exempt elites from the PC MC pathology!

    2) The list of jobs you cite from my post — producers, writers, directors and actors — are not all “elites” anyway. Many of them are just people working jobs, particularly on a show like MI-5. And certainly many, if not most, of the writers are not “elites”.

    Western societies are not divided into two camps, Elites and Non-Elites. There are many gradations along a spectrum. There is a sociological porousness. Not everyone who works on the staff of the New York Times is an “elite”. “Elites” account for a rather tiny minority among the West. What the fuck is everyone else doing in the West about Islam? Why haven’t we have a Million Man March against Islam? We just had a Million Man March about taxes, but nary a word was uttered there about Islam. Were all those people numbering a million who gathered in D.C. “elites”?

  41. says

    Alarmed Pig Farmer,

    “1) Islam’s unquestioned success in taking for itself a fake status as a religion”

    That success is due entirely to the stupidity of the West, from the Catholics to the Leftists from the Republicans to the Democrats from the Atheists to the Jews — as you might agree.

    “2) That deep down in Western consciousness in its historical memory lurks a true dread of Islam, probably going all the way back to the days of the Jihadi pirates in the Med, when all those Europeans disappeared from our shores and were taken as slaves to Moslems.”

    I agree. Bill Warner first turned me on to that interesting idea. There might very well be a kind of “abused-wife-in-denial” factor going on with all this bending over backwards to placate Muslims on the part of the PC MC West — with the latest attacks and Muslims undergoing a revival just when we thought they were on the dustbin of history, stirring memories & emotions in the West that have been long suppressed in our historical conscious.

    “3) Modern consciuosness, in particular the formation of opinion, is heavily affected by media, which renders openly criticizing “beleagured” ethnic groups or a religion unthinkable.”

    On this I have to demur, because it suggests, again, masses of people easily manipulated. I know it’s been a common trope among Leftists with their Marshall MacLuhan college classes under their belts (along with certain ultra-right-wingers with their conspiracy theory suspicion of authority) to think of the Western masses as sheep under the thrall of governments; but I don’t buy it. Media in free societies such as the West has reflects the public consciousness more than it manipulates it. Face it, guys: most ordinary joes are PC MC and think Islam is ok and most Muslims should be given the benefit of the doubt and “seem” decent, etc. blah blah

    “4) Islam’s penchant for centralism and victimism dovetails almost perfectly with Marxism, the ascendant political theory of our day because it offers Other People’s Money. OPM is always attractive to the masses”

    Perhaps.

    But to me, the crucial cornerstone of the entire reason why the West remains stubbornly irrational about Islam: Reverse Racism.

  42. says

    Good debate here. Kudos to all who took part.

    Special mench to Eastview, Odyessus, Stendec, Proud Infidel, Stendec, Sencit, Cornelius, Wellington, Alarmed PF, et al

    And the winner is…

    Hesperado

    Booby prize goes to Yom al Juma.

  43. says

    The Church of England may indeed have become wishy-washy and led by mediocrities but at least it’s not, nor has it ever been, a supremacist, totalitarian ideology like Islam. Besides, anyone in the Church of England, should they wish to revive it, can look to a founder who in every conceivable category was an infinitely preferable character to the founder of Islam, who demonstarated psychopathic tendencies, an enthrallment with death and power and was possessed of a very unhealthy sexual appetite. And concerning the genesis of these two faiths, Christianity and Islam, nothing can alter these realities.

    In the meantime, don’t count too much on many Brits converting to Mohammedanism. Pretty much only the detritus of British society will do that, if even them. You seem utterly clueless respecting what Pat Condell has noted several times and that is that your ordinary Brit has become sick of Islam, all of it. Done here.

  44. says

    Islam is a sickness, much like the bubonic plague, an evil ideology that has poisoned those it has infected.

    Muslims are the victims of Islam. Completely deluded by a fake “prophet” Warlord, they seek to pass on the plague of Islam to the West, but the West is already fighting back.

    “Islam is an absurd theology of an immoral Bedouin, a rotting corpse which poisons our lives.” — Kemal Ataturk

    Exactly.

  45. says

    The Queen convert to Islam??? LOL. Fat chance of that happening. Tell you what, Yom, why don’t you accept the love of Jesus Christ as your personal savior into your heart so you can experience what true religion is like. When you do that, then get back to us and we’ll continue the discussion.

  46. says

    “Folks, if you have an inkling for living life to the full, please please don’t hesitate; join at a mosque near you; there has never been a better time than now.”

    No thanks, Yom. You and Choudary are a couple of sewer rats, so you can take your Islamic poopaganda and flush it!

  47. says

    @dda – it would be great if Her Majesty could emulate her namesake and predecessor, Elizabeth the First:

    “In 1596, Queen Elizabeth issued an “open letter” to the Lord Mayor of London, announcing that “there are of late divers blackmoores brought into this realme, of which kinde of people there are allready here to manie,” and ordering that they be deported from the country. One week later, she reiterated her “good pleasure to have those kinde of people sent out of the lande” and commissioned the merchant Casper van Senden to “take up” certain “blackamoores here in this realme and to transport them into Spaine and Portugall.” Finally, in 1601, she complained again about the “great numbers of Negars and Blackamoors which (as she is informed) are crept into this realm,” defamed them as “infidels, having no understanding of Christ or his Gospel,” and, one last time, authorized their deportation.”

  48. says

    Choudary is a putz could be but IMO A demitasse would fit his head like a sombrero.
    AND It looks like he suffers from Diarrhea of the mouth; constipation of ideas.and don’t People clap when they see him – their hands over their ears.???