The glorious fruit of giving the 9/11 plotters civilian trials is already beginning to appear. Watch for these guys to walk -- after wasting a few taxpayer millions, that is. "Mental State Cited in 9/11 Case," by Jess Bravin in the Wall Street Journal, November 27 (thanks to Elisa):
WASHINGTON -- When five defendants are brought before a New York federal judge to face charges for the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, the first question may be whether some of them are competent to stand trial at all.Military lawyers for Ramzi Binalshibh, an accused organizer of the 9/11 plot, and Mustafa al-Hawsawi, the conspiracy's alleged paymaster, say their clients have mental disorders that make them unfit for trial, likely caused or exacerbated by years of harsh confinement in Central Intelligence Agency custody.
The issue already has arisen in military-commission proceedings at the military's detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. According to an August ruling by a military judge, prosecutors have made an "apparent concession" that Mr. Binalshibh "suffers from a delusional disorder-persecutory type" disorder. Mr. Binalshibh has been prescribed "a variety of psychotropic medications used to treat schizophrenia and/or bipolar disorder, including Haldol, Abilify, risperidone and Ativan," according to commission records.
In October 2008, a military medical board reported Mr. Binalshibh may suffer from "severe mental disease" that could "impair his ability to conduct or cooperate intelligently in his defense."...
If these guys were intelligent enough to organize something like the 9/11 attacks, then they're fit to stand trail.
As for the persecution complex thing, isn't that common amongst Muslims in general?
The 9/11 plotters have already had their day in court. They plead guilty.
They were anxious to get "down" to Allah's brothel in the hereafter.
How can they be tried twice for the same crime?
Holder could and should be impeached for bringing war criminals into a civil court, retrying them, and doing so without legal standing.
...................................
'...........exacerbated by years of harsh confinement in Central Intelligence Agency custody.'
The American taxpayers have already spent millions of dollars on the upkeep of this low-life and yet it is not enough.
Should they have been kept in 5-star hotels to satisfy the lawyers of these terrorists??
OJ Trial relived:
The court throws out the conviction based on the fact that they were tortured, and were not Miranda-ed, even though they were under indictment.
You get to watch it all on TV! You watch the verdict and get the special moment where Iraqis, Iranians, Pakistanis, Palestinians etc celebrate, it will make the OJ fiasco look like small change.
You will get to watch as all the defendants file suit for $ millions for compensation for their injuries that will be judgment proof from the 9-11 victims (as compensatory payments for physical and mental injury).
Finally, we will get the thrill of seeing them stay in the USA as no one will take them back. And if a country will the 9-11 defendants will petition the courts saying that to send them back will be dangerous to them as they would be persecuted by their home governments. As most immigration actions go, the court procedures and challenges will go on endlessly.
Meanwhile the Holder and the Obama administration are completely optimistic that they will be given a fair trial and will be found guilty. Proving to the world what good guys we are and how things have changed here going back to the pre-9-11 mindset. If the trial turns into a circus, it will be Obama's Watergate trials. If the verdict is less then death, (note one can count on one hand the number of federal court death penalty decisions in the past 10 yrs) criticism of the administration will be loud. If they walk, it is likely Obama will not be able to get elected to dog catcher anywhere other than Hyde Park, he will attain Jimmy Carter stature.
When five defendants are brought before a New York federal judge to face charges for the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, the first question may be whether some of them are competent to stand trial at all.
The obvious prosecution counter would be to argue that the defendents were quite competent based on fulfilling the dictates of the belief system that drove them to mass murder.
*** 5:101 ***
But the government lawyers won't make that argument. Putting "sacred" Islamic scripture on trial would be unthinkable.
*** 8:57 ***
Doing that honest thing would be as despicable as what Pat Robertson said the other day. He told the truth about Islam and is in hot water now.
*** 40:32 ***
If they ain't trying to pour burning oil down our throats they're turning the heat up on the boiling water under our Fictive Reality in the most powerful way they know: forced self-censorship.
The vapid ingenues at the Washington Post responded to the heat, and so will the feds.
*** 8:30 ***
It's one thing to shut up a preacher, but putting muzzles on federal prosecutors?
In October 2008, a military medical board reported Mr. Binalshibh may suffer from "severe mental disease" that could "impair his ability to conduct or cooperate intelligently in his defense."...
Yelling "Allah Akhbaaarr!! I keeel you Infidels!" is not implied CIA induced mental disorder. It's the Islam... stupid.
"severe mental disease" = "pious muslim"
The prosecutions will go up-to the Highest Court of USA ultimately in appeal & counter appeals. Is that place the Supreme Court of USA of which Hn'ble Js.John G. Roberts Jr.is the Chief Justice?. The defendants have committed criminal acts but are being tried in civilian courts . Is there possibilities of coming up of such new 'rulings' from the highest court of Js Roberts which effectively will be tent-amounting to the 'creation of new laws' for USA. And how far are the possibilities of 'Sharia principals'/laws in the form of 'Muslim Personal Law' making an entry in this way (creeping) into USA body politic.? This is how it has been achieved in many countries.
I hope at least one of them gets off. That will teach this administration and their moonbat supporters a lesson when they get taken to the woodshed in the polls, though if the economy recovers, it may not matter after all.
I'll state the obvious too, severe mental disease and not competent to stand trial could be used for all the Islam fanatics.
I keep saying, the west is not equipped to handle jihad. To out own peril.
"Watch for these guys to walk -- after wasting a few taxpayer millions" -
Where have you been? I've heard several estimates that the security, government legal expenses and economically devastating traffic problems in the heart of America's financial centers will put the bill in the several hundred million range.
Sounder, please allow me to respectfully disagree. In fact, the West is very THOROUGHLY equipped to handle jihad. The problem is the very issue on which Robert, Hugh and Marisol are working so feverishly.
You see, a LONG, LONG time ago, Islam declared war on everything not of itself. We in the West simply need to wake up to that fact and recognize that "it's far passed time for us to return the favor".
Declare war on Islam? Well, Islam has already declared war on us... we still just don't want to believe it. You are witnessing the Western World waking up to a rude reality. You ain't seen nuthin' yet... Aussies (God Bless 'em!), Brits (I LOVE 'em!), the French (yup, I even have a lot of respect for the French), the Belgians and Germans, our northern best friends (Oh, CANADA!), the Chinese (no, I don't trust 'em yet) and those amazing East Indians - among others - are mad as hornets and the muzzle-ems have worn out their welcome... just about everywhere. I'm a fan of Bosch Fawstin who sez "never, never, never, never submit...". Submit? Huh! We ain't even got STARTED yet.... stick around. izlum can be stomped. izlum MUST be stomped and izlum WILL BE stomped right back into the stone age from which it crawled. [Hide and watch! LOL!] We got work to do....
Wonderin1
Wonderin1, I hope you are right and I am wrong. I truly do.
They were singin' "Bye, Bye to this izlumic (cow) pie..."
"From It-tally to Bengali you have made people cry..."
"You really messed up when you messed with Mumbai"
We say "this'll be the day that you fry"
"this'll be the day that you fry....."
Wonderin1
So they're mentally incompetent to stand trial; then put them in an insane asylum for the rest of their lives, with Big Nurse looking after them.
Big Nurse would be great, but I would also stipulate that for at least four hours a day, these guys be chained and put in straitjackets, to have Hello Nurse come along and make fun of them, Islam, and Mo, every day.
Why? Why not?
I'm a b----, and I'm comfortable with that :P
Hmm, is that a Red Herring I smell roasting in the oven? ...quite possibly, yes!
I think you're smelling more than a Red Herring here...I get the odious waft of turkey buzzard myself...
BH
This is why the criminal statute on "innocent by reason of insanity" is such a travesty and should have been replaced long ago by a "guilty but insane" statute that would have confined the convicted to a mental hospital for the duration of their sentence...(or subsequently moved to prison to finish their sentence if they were ever deemed by doctors to have regained their sanity).
Like the 'unanimous-jury verdict' necessary to convict or acquit, the "innocent-by-reason-of-insanity" statute is ideally suited for subverting the pursuit of justice.
LOL! ..I've got turkey on the brain, too! ..very funny!
BH? ...as in Bones Hack? ..and all this time I thought that your moniker stood for Bone-Shack ..my bad! OK, so what's the story behind "Boneshack"?
MsCurious :)
Champ,
You're thinking WAAAYYY too deep into this. FB PM shortly.
Treating Islam through Chemistry??? If it could just be that easy. Think of all the Feet in this Administration that would be saved.
Do we really have to lose by all means possible?
Cornelius -
So you mean in the US, crazy people who commit a crime ARE simply let free?!
Damn,and I thought Canadian justice was screwed - if someone is found to be a nutter, he IS put into a mental hospital or prison with facilities for the criminally insane, like St Thomas in Ontario or Fort Saskatchewan in Alberta with an indefinite sentence.
Also, there's something which I have heard referred to as the Lieutenant-Governor's Act (or is it the GG's act?), which allows for such people to be picked up in the future AT ANY TIME if the police feel they have a reason to, or, of course, more usually if/when that person acts up again.
If any Canucks have any better info, please add to this.
SBH2U2 :)
Some of you might be amused to read a blog essay I wrote about a year and a half ago:
Islam as a psychological disorder—in the year 2158
Spirit Wolf,
Those found "innocent by reason of insanity" may or may not be committed, depending on their current state of mind. They might be released immediately, or held for years...but the minute they are deemed fit, they are released.
The main point is, they are found "innocent", even though they freely admit to perpetrating the crime. It's a travesty of justice.
Meanwhile, the unanimous-jury verdict continues to threaten justice in America. The 9-11 trials could easily result in hung-juries because of the hidden agenda of a sole Left-wing and/or Muslim-sympathizing juror. It's an anachronism that will become increasingly problematic as Muslims become ever more populous in America and jury-pools that disqualify them from serving on terror trials will be deemed discriminatory and therefore unconstitutional.
"If they walk, it is likely Obama will not be able to get elected to dog catcher anywhere other than Hyde Park..."
So, there really is a silver lining to this leaden cloud.
Mr. Binalshibh may suffer from "severe mental disease" that could "impair his ability to conduct or cooperate intelligently in his defense."...
That's possible but it's also possible that his 'severe mental disease' did not impair his ability to participate in jihad, and may have actually enhanced it...As in Maj Hasan...
From article... "suffers from a delusional disorder-persecutory type" disorder.
That's code for paranoia...He's apparently diagnosed a paranoid schizophrenic...
Interesting. Of course, that's what "indefinite sentence" means here.
And come to think of it, they changed things quite recently. Now, insane or not, if you keep doing stuff (or did something bad enough), you can be deemed a "dangerous offender" which means basically that they can just throw you in the SHU and throw away the key, from what I understand of it - even if you're nuts (that's what the SHU is for.) Once you're in as a Dangerous Offender, you don't get out, I think. Also, anyone with violence already on their record have a harder time getting out, whether in jail or the nutward.
Now of course, if they let these guys out, and they did something else, can the government be held legally liable?
I know one way to save millions and do justice at the same time, the Lee Harvey Oswald Method. I thought the Mafia was so powerful in New York. So where's their Jack Ruby when we need him? :)
http://go.to/islamhistory
I think more than one of these Schmoes will walk. The court will be a circus of lawyerly tircks and judicial fuzziness; plus demonstrations galore by dirtbags who think these scumbags are heroes.
Is KSM pleaded guilty and asked to die, he ought to be hurried on to Gehenom, where he belongs. Make everyone happy.
They are no more incompetent to stand trial for the 9/11 attacks than Saddam Hussein was when he stood trial for his war crimes.
I agree with Spirit Wolf, if these guys were intelligent enough to plot the 9/11 attacks then they are fit to stand trial. The CIA will be the ones on trial along with the former Bush administration. The only incompetence they follow is that of the cult of Islam and their incessant obsession to jihad.
In a USA Today article written by Marc A. Thiessen who served in the senior position at the Pentagon and the White House from 2001 to 2009 and wrote President Bush's Sept. 6, 2006 speech revealing the CIA interrogation program. His book, COURTING DISASTER: HOW THE CIA KEPT AMERICA SAFE AND HOW BARACK OBAMA IS INVITING THE NEXT ATTACK, will be published in January by Regency. He writes:
When KSM was captured in Pakistan in March of 2003, he refused to answer questions, informing his captors "I'll tell you everything when I get to New York and see my lawyer." But the Bush administration did not send KSM to New York. He was sent to a CIA "blacksight" where he was questioned not for evidence in a criminal trial, but for intelligence about future terrorist attacks. Here is what he revealed under "enhanced interrogation techniques"-including waterboarding.
1. It led to the capture of a cell of Southeast Asian terrorists KSM had tasked to hijack a plane and fly it into the tallest skyscraper in Los Angeles.
2. It led to the capture of Ammar al-Baluchi and Walid bin Attash, just as they were completing plans to blow up the US consulate and Western residence in Karachi, Pakistan.
3. He provided information that helped lead to the arrest of Sayfullah Paracha and his son Uzair Paracha, two businessmen with whom KSM was plotting to smuggle explosives into the USA.
4. He provided information that helped break up an al-Qaeda cell that was developing anthrax for terrorist attacks inside the USA.
5. He explained al-Qaeda's operating structure, financing, communications, and logistics.
6. He described the traits and profiles that al-Qaeda sought in Western operatives, how al-Qaeda might select targets, what probable targets were, and the likely methods of attack.
7. He gave U.S. officials a picture of the terrorist organization as seen from the inside, almost nothing about the enemy that had hit us on 9/11.
Thiessen said the delay in KSM's prosecution, and that of other CIA detainees, saved lives, but the radical liberal left and muslim jihad apologists do not take that into concern. If we had given him his Miranda rights, like Obama wanted to, we would not have gotten this information.
Moreover, were it not for the delays in prosecution to allow CIA interrogations, Holder would have no one to put on trial.
Ramzi Binalshibh was captured only because of information the CIA elicited after waterboarding a terrorist named Abu Zubaydah. Binalshibh and Zubaydah then gave the CIA information that led to the capture of KSM and Mustafa al-Hawsawi. KSM in turn provided the CIA information that led to the capture of al-Baluchi and Attash. If not for the CIA interrogations, these dangerous terrorists might still be at large planning new attacks instead of facing justice.
By returning to failed law enforcement tactics against terrorists, we have only put Americans in more danger, not less.
But the likes of the Obama administration, the liberal left, the jihadist sympathizers, and the detainees lawyers think that we should treat them as bank robbers. When another 9/11 or worse happens, (and I say when because of our incessant attitude to treat terrorism as a criminal case), I will have those who are against the techniques used by the CIA to extract this information to save lives, I will have them to thank.
The question begs to be asked, the information gained by waterboarding will be inemissible in this circus trial, were KSM and his savage cohorts "insane" when they plotted these terrorist attacks that were thwarted due to our vigorous and courageous efforts to garner this information?
BTW, Nancy Pelosi had no idea that these animals were being waterboarded, but unveiled CIA documents shows that she was briefed about it and said nothing. Should we put her on trial?
KSM has already stated that the 9/11 attacks warranted a "victory" on the part of the jihadists. He has already pled guilty, asked for a military tribunal, and be executed. Should we not grant him his wish? We are already granting them their wishes by letting them have a stage to spew their anti-American propaganda.
Holder chastised President Bush for delaying justice for 9/11 families. Were it not for Holder, they'd be on death row instead of preparing for a trial that will take years and make the O.J. Simpson case look like a traffic court hearing.
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
Robert~
Your blog has become a catch-all customer complaint center for apolitical wing-nuts. As a liberal with an abiding personal prerequisite for truth, I was attracted to Jihad Watch through my respectful interest in your books which, in turn, was a direct result of my need-to-know mission on Muslims and why they seem to pop-up much too consistently wherever things get nasty in the world. This quest for understanding is 3 years old now. I'm currently a member of Act For America. I've met Ms. Gabriel.
I'm sure you want your blog to contribute to the growing public sophistication about Islamist jihad in America. Toward that end, it would be better if 'commenters' stayed on-topic and resisted the temptation to slide off into ranting, shotgun-pattern tirades about the vast left-wing conspiracy that's lurking behind every bush and ready to take over. I guess what I mean to say is that sometimes your movement tends to drive off easily intimidated lefties. Not me, of course. But just a word to the wise about making your agenda too widely diffused. It thins the message.