American convert to Islam endorses death penalty for apostasy

And I say that if Muslims think Western society is so bad for their kids, GO BACK HOME, and DON'T COME HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE!

I don't know exactly what the pledge is that immigrants make when they take American citizenship, but does it not include something about doing your share to defend the country from it's enemies if called upon to do so?
If you opt out then should you not forfeit your citizenship ?

"In an ideal world the apostate would face death..." -- Umar Lee's response to a query from Robert.

Well, there you have it. It's no surprise to anyone here, of course. I hope that the appropriate authorities involved in both the cases of Maj. Hasan and Rifqa Bary have taken appropriate notice. Umar Lee's responses to Robert were interesting in other, more general, respects, too - note the hatred he evinces for our society.

I am not a scholar but the ruling on apostacy is clear. In an ideal world the apostate would face death but there is no authority to implement the shariah in america so no she shouldnt be killed and besides this girl may very well be making the whole thing up.
...............................

She may be "making the whole thing up"—but, of course, if the United States were a proper Shari'ah state, she should be murdered for her apostasy. It is not time yet, simply because Muslims have not been able to impose Shari'ah law on America yet.

Also, notice our dear Muslim friend's assumption that Rifqa is "a ho"—why else might she be at risk of murder as an apostate? (That she might have converted to Christianity does not seem to have occurred to him).

That it is acceptable to murder a young girl—even if she had been "acting like a ho" seems to trouble Umar Lee not at all.

That Robert Spencer is able to hold such a civilized, polite correspondence with such a person is testament to his restraint.

I see the "Pied Piper" of hate media is playing another useful idiot...

"I respect the fact that you base your position on Sharia norms as delineated by the Qur'an and Sunnah." media hatemonger spins again...

"I am not a scholar but the ruling on apostacy is clear." (useful idiot writes)

Don't feel bad, Umar Lee, neither is Robert...he's just another idiot like you, only he has a hate filled agenda and you are a useful idiot he has put to good use furthering bad things.

Peace
Abdullah

I would ask these "Western converts" to go live in a land of sharia to see how moral the values of these pious muslim lands really are compared to the "decadent West". these converts do not have the life lived experience of such people who leave islam that have been spoken of and written from, such as Rifqa.

Honesty from a Muslim is very refreshing and clarifying. I just love it when Muslims don't practice taqiyya as CAIR does regularly.

Honest rubes like Umar Lee don't come around too often. Like the boy who shouted that emperor wears no clothes. Milk Mr. Lee for all he's worth. He's a combination of old-fashion Yankee honesty and the Islamofascist mysogyny and hatred of a convert. Lee is too smart to accept "the religion of peace" bull that most native Muslims desperately,sheepishly yearn to believe, yet he's too stupid to "know when to shut up" like do the sinister Muslim thugs in CAIR, Al Qaeda, and JW's own poison pen meister, "Abdullah."

Honest rubes like Umar Lee don't come around too often. Like the boy who shouted that emperor wears no clothes. Milk Mr. Lee for all he's worth. He's a combination of old-fashion Yankee honesty and the Islamofascist mysogyny and hatred of a convert. Lee is too smart to accept "the religion of peace" bull that most native Muslims desperately,sheepishly yearn to believe, yet he's too stupid to "know when to shut up" like do the sinister Muslim thugs in CAIR, Al Qaeda, and JW's own poison pen meister, "Abdullah."

AM, instead of lambasting Mr Spencer for asking a question of the man, why don't you address Mr Lee directly and explain to him how apostate killing is un-Islamic.

Or are you simply angry that he told the truth, instead of spewing the CAIR-approved line of taqqiya?

Umar Lee's honesty is somewhat refreshing, although he obviously, like most if not all Muslims, doesn't like being asked pointed questions "out of class" by non-muslims, if you will.

Abdullah Mikhail is a whole other story. His disdain for the truthful answer about apostasy, to which Umar Lee provided, was blatantly obvious, aside from the vitriolic ad hominems that he offered in his comment.

Two things struck me here. First, Abdullah used JW (again) to express his disdain for Lee's reply about apostasy, yet didn't bother to reply to Lee directly, or if he did, not publicly. Lee's site accepts comments as well, and his contact information is not classified, substantiated by Robert's email correspondence with him.

That brings us to the second point. Abdullah did not contradict Umar's perception of the ruling to which Robert is in agreement with, nor did he offer a single credible source of an Islamic scholar refuting that position on apostasy. That is quite illuminating indeed in my estimation.

That's typical Abby that we all have grown to know here at JW. He refutes an argument but never actually gets around to presenting a suitable, substantiated counter-argument. One could reasonably assume that Abdullah actually concurs with Lee's and Spencer's position on apostasy, according to properly adjudicated Islamic law by credible Islamic scholars, but simply doesn't possess the stones to say so.

The other logical conclusion about Abdullah's baseless response is a word we are familiar with here. One that starts with a "T". Can you guess what that word is?

"Umar" Lee is the perfect example of why Gitmo should NOT be closed, nor limited to foreign jihadists captured overseas.

Umar Lee wrote: “…In an ideal world the apostate would face death...”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Damn, what a fine and just religion that Islam thing must be… No?... How dare you disagree you filthy infidel!!

Doesn’t it just make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside and eager to sign up for the much touted *Religion of Peace* ??

Why who in their right mind would hesitate to hire “Umar” to baby sit their kids! This individual is clearly the most rational among us and could only have a good and pleasant influence on all he touches…

Maybe Obama will have Umar over to the White House for a chin wag and a beer and explain to him that he’s got his religion all wrong…

This "Umar Lee" writes like a five-year-old.

And, it is similar to the stink that "AbdullahMikail" wishes to use as an odoriferous for our benefit.

Converts are ALWAYS the worst -- five-year-old Lee and similarly Mikail -- because they retain a vestige of their past lives by keeping half of their given name in order to convince the "unbeliever" that they aren't fully Arabized.

No other word to describe folks like this other than scum.

"In an ideal world the apostate would face death but there is no authority to implement the shariah in america so no she shouldnt be killed..."

I do love how the Islamics try to allow themselves an 'out' for every all of their arguments. In essence what he's saying is, 'we can't kill apostates here in America and get away with it, yet but we're working on it...'

I'll help lead Mr. Lee towards the next step.

"...and besides this girl may very well be making the whole thing up."

I found this out first hand, but try as much as you like and bring as many witnesses as you can, but in an Shariah court, the testimony of women don't count as much as Muslim men(not to mention the worth of non-Muslim testimony), derived from this authoritative hadith,

Bukhari,Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301:
[An hadith] Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
Once Allah's Apostle [Muhammed] went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

Interesting to know that the testimony of a woman like Rifqa wouldn't be worth much in an Islamic court in the first place, even if she hadn't converted.

From Abdullah-AINO...Don't feel bad, Umar Lee, neither is Robert...he's just another idiot like you, only he has a hate filled agenda...

I guess you don't have much to say, leading with a weak punch like that gives away your impotence...must be frustrating...

The fact that AM has to post "two fatwas from two prominent scholars" that indicate that there is no death penalty for apostasy from Islam is itself dispositive of where the entire Islamic world is at. What other religion has to go to great lengths (or any lengths) to illustrate that their religion doesn't require death for those who leave that religion?

Robet Spencer's major point remains in tact, irrespective of futile attempts by AM types to discredit it. And that point is that for a religion which bills itself as tolerant and peaceful, not to mention wonderful and true, (to ad nauseam degrees I might add while killings by Muslims in the name of their faith eclipse killings many times over by all other adherents of all religions combined), there certainly are a hell of a lot of misunderstanders of this religion by adherents of this faith. After all, how many Methodists, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, etc. (the list is a long one) have to regularly maintain that people who leave their respective faith shouldn't be killed for doing so (never mind blowing themselves up in restaurants, sawing off heads, hijacking planes and taking hostages)?

Again we see that Islam is the world's greatest pain in the ass where religion is concerned and AM types' protestations to the contrary are increasingly falling on deaf ears with each passing year (of course, the elites in Western society, a collective ally for Islamic imperialists, will be the last to go deaf here). To AM and his cohorts I would ask, why is it the case that Muslims who misunderstand their wonderful religion are virtually ubiquitous?

The world is getting fed up with Islam. Quick like. This is a good thing. And the AMs of the world, malevolent anachronisms though they be, remain absolutley clueless respecting this.

wHEN A MUSLIMS LEFT ISLAM IN mUHAMMAD'S DAY HE HAD THEM KILLED. tHE MAN WHO WROTE THE QURAN FOUND OUT THAT mUHAMMAD WAS LYING AND TOLD THE OTHER ARABS AND mUHAMMAD HAD HIS KILLED FOR APOSTASY.

mUSLIMS ARE ON TRUTH TUBE TV ADVOCATING FOR mUSLIMS TO SEX BABIES BECAUSE mUHAMMAD DID IT. HE IS A BLACK MAN PREACHING PEDOPHILIA AS A RELIGIOUS OBLIGATION. MUSLIM DATING SERVICES OFFERED GIRLS AND WOMEN.

AM PLEASE GO HOME. NOW mUSLIMS ARE TELLING PEOPLE THEY ARE THE REAL nORWEGIANS AND sWEDES. nEXT THEY WILL SAY mUSLIMS DISCOVERED aMERICA. iNVENTED THE AIRPLANES, TRAINS, SKATES.
NOT THIS TIME!

More "words of wisdom" from Umar Lee, and an indication of what he wants to see happen to apostates in the United States in the future:

"In closing, I would also like to answer the question regarding hijrah [moving to a Muslim country—GI]. If a Muslim is not able to make hijrah then it becomes a duty for them to spread Islam in the land they are. Therefore, as I am not in a position to make hijrah and there are many more like me, I am doing my part with others to help and spread the deen here so that one day, insha’Allah, we will replace Old Glory with the banner of La ilaha ilullah Muhammadur Rasululah on Pennsylvania Avenue in DC."

Incidently, our friend Umar is also a supporter of *the Taliban*.

http://umarlee.com/

Abdullah wrote: “…The current subject is apostasy and I posted two fatwas from two prominent scholars noting that there is no death penalty fir personal apostasy, as well as citing a plethora of verses in the quran speaking directly to the issue of apostasy as well…”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mister Abdullah, why don’t you put that ‘big brain’ of yours to use and explain to us why you reason that all of the major schools of Islamic jurisprudence that mandate the death penalty for apostasy are wrong and that the “two fatwas from prominent Islamic scholars” you dug up are “more authoritative” in your mind.

Getting a little desperate, aren’t we “Abdullah”?

Abdullah, please explain, in your own words, why the text quotes below DON’T apply to all apostates. Being an ex-Muslim myself, these passages threaten me with death for simply choosing to leave Islam. Am I wrong, Abdullah?

004.088
What is the matter with you, then, that you have become two parties about the hypocrites, while Allah has made them return (to unbelief) for what they have earned? Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to err? And whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall by no means find a way for him.

004.089
They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

004.090
Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you; therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them.

004.091
You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority.

Hadith: Bukhari, Vol. 9, Book 84, No. 57:
Narrated Ikrima
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire)’. I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changes his Islamic religion, then kill him.’”

Excellent post by Saleem Smith in response to Abdullah Mikail.

Also, a razor-sharp comment from Wellington:

"The fact that AM has to post "two fatwas from two prominent scholars" that indicate that there is no death penalty for apostasy from Islam is itself dispositive of where the entire Islamic world is at. What other religion has to go to great lengths (or any lengths) to illustrate that their religion doesn't require death for those who leave that religion?"

What does it say about Allah that he personally dictated the Koran word for word and from almost the very beginning it has generated nothing but confusion and controversy? If he was so smart wouldn't he have been able to spell it out so that even all the fools and morons of the world would be able to understand it?

Alternatively the Bible has miraculous threads going through it that tie various books together written in different ages and yet even with all that wondrous complexity and beauty the elemental message can be understood even by a child, in fact Jesus said that one must accept it as a child, the ultimate faith part anyway.

Muslims tired of the confusion and fighting should try the Bible instead.

*The Religion of Peace* should immediately be re-named *The Religion of Cruelty*

* Does Islam not tell men to beat their disobedient wives and then send them to sleep in separate beds? Of course it does. Verse 4 chapter 34 of the Quran clearly approves of and sanctions domestic abuse.

* Does Islam not state that people should be maimed for petty theft thus leaving them largely incapable of finding gainful employment and severely impeding the rest of their lives? Of course it does. Quran, Verse 5 chapter 33.

* Does Islam not permit Muslims to marry and have sex with their slave girls? Of course Islam permits Muslims to marry and have sex with their slave girls. Quran verse 4 chapter 3.

The ”Prophet Muhammad” was of course given “special privileges” when it came to “hooking up” with slave girls and the like:

033.050
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

PICKTHAL: O Prophet! Lo! We have made lawful unto thee thy wives unto whom thou hast paid their dowries, and those whom thy right hand possesseth of those whom Allah hath given thee as spoils of war, and the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncle on the mother's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the mother's side who emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage - a privilege for thee only, not for the (rest of) believers - We are Aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess - that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

SHAKIR: O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Abby wrote:

"The current subject is apostasy and I posted two fatwas from two prominent scholars noting that there is no death penalty fir personal apostasy..."

So post them again tough guy, anmd let's analyze them in context. Name the scholars and the context, otherwise begone you cockroach.

You have a less than reputable historical existence here.

Peace.

>>>

Uh huh . . . Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

I should be more careful about what I say when casually commenting on JW.

Muslims like our pal Abdullah Mikial there are submerged so deeply into the cult of Islam that will never pull their heads or hearts out of it and will only attempt to twist, use and run in the wrong direction with whatever facts are presented to them. Due to the fear created in them by their criminally insane prophets threats of hell fire, such Muslims are incapable of questioning the validity of anything Islamic.

A mohammedan detractor claims he "posted two fatwas from two prominent scholars noting that there is no death penalty fir personal apostasy..."

Did I miss something?

And then he projects hatred upon those who expose his hateful cult. Inverted reality, a parallel universe or just a mental case?

AbdullahMikail:
Muhammad said, "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him."

In all six of the hadith collections considered canonical by Muslims, Muhammad says and is reported to say that apostates from Islam should be killed.

That's why all the schools of Islamic law support the death penalty for apostates from Islam.

Even you admit that the best you can find is a couple of scholars who say that, provided an apostate doesn't make his apostasy public (keeps it "personal"), he should not be killed. Well, that's just grand of you, Abdullah. As long as I am the only one who knows I'm an apostate, I won't be killed.

Many of Islam's doctrines are dehumanizing, cruel, arrogant, violent, and full of lies. There is no discussing things with a supporter of that, like AbdullahMikail. He is too weak and insecure to face the challenges of individual freedom and individual conscience, so he wants to be a slave (Abdullah means "slave of God"). But what if the true God doesn't want slaves? What if the notion that God wants slaves is a myth created by a sick dictator who conveniently conceived God in his, the dictator's, own image? Now we'll all do what Muhammad says, all be slaves to whatever he claims God says. What a fool is the pious Muslim, falling hook, line, and sinker for a narcissistic criminal like Muhammad who sold his soul to the devil in exchange for rule of the world.

Abdullah:
Do you actually believe any REGULAR here is suddenly going to start BUYING YOUR TAQYIAA?
Perhaps the day a cow flies across the sky on it's way to "Jumping Over The Moon".

Yes, Traeh, it's good to remember who 'the prince of this world is' He showed Jesus the kingdoms of the earth and said 'all this can be yours if you fall down and worship me."
Jesus said 'no thanks.' Mohammed said yes. So we know who his master is, who he fell down and worshipped as his followers do to this day --and it ain't pretty.

Yes, Traeh, it's good to remember who 'the prince of this world is' He showed Jesus the kingdoms of the earth and said 'all this can be yours if you fall down and worship me."
Jesus said 'no thanks.' Mohammed said yes. So we know who his master is, who he fell down and worshipped as his followers do to this day --and it ain't pretty.

AM

LIAR, LIAR, LIAR!!

need not say anymore. Just like your father.

Mr. spencer, You were much to cordial, however that is the nature of black-ops journalism.

As for Abdullah. I've already shown this joker how ridiculous his religion is though many different perspectives yet he remains a dogmatic slave of Allah.
Not only a dogmatic slave of Allah but a shirk as well.
He's a walking, talking, contradiction. He is a complete disgrace to critical thinking and humanity.

Abdullah logic is as follows...

1.) I pick a hadith that backs up my logic even if the same hadith differs. I ignore contradictions. Allah knows best.

2.) I read and follow the Hadith even though Muhammad, Omar, and the Quran itself advise against this. Once again I ignore contradictions. Allah knows best.

3.) I scourer the internet for two prominent islamic jurists(who Al-qaeda and the taliban do not respect as legit because they base their opinions on classical islamic jurists.) inorder to show Apostasy is and isn't allowed. Once again I ignore the contradictions. Over looking the fact that apostasy to be honest with the apes and pigs was practiced in my religion. So I could see were Al-qaeda and the Taliban came to this proper conclusion. Allah knows best.

Dear Abdullah: Please go home and take two nine year old virgins, drink lots of camel fluids and call your doctor
(psychologist) in the morning.

Peace out truth in.

l think AM has become a useful tool when dealing with muslims even those Western converts, as we get to see how they twist and turn to explain as Saleem Smith put the Religion of Cruelty.

Any teen girl who is not a serial fornicator is seen as square and if she has good muslim parents making sure she is not acting like a ho she may rebel.

There is no such thing as "good Moslem parent." Such a thing is a logical impossibility cuz good Moslems are observant and the central command in all of Islam calls for emulation of Mohammed who as a hairy 50-yr old man sunk his member deep into a 9-yr old girl.

*** 33:21 ***

And what's wrong with serial fornication? Mohammed did it, albeit usually under the guise of forcible rape and sex slavery, true, but does that somehow make his serial fornication holy and a Mall Rat's serial fornication unholy?

Abdullah got bloodied here even more than he usually does. Fat-lip and all, scurrying away in his usual cowardice.

APF wrote:
"And what's wrong with serial fornication? Mohammed did it, albeit usually under the guise of forcible rape and sex slavery, true, but does that somehow make his serial fornication holy and a Mall Rat's serial fornication unholy?"

Indeed. The logical absurdity of Islam is only matched by the veracity of its overt hypocrisy. That and all that inherent blood-lust, of course.

Alarmed Pig Farmer -

The difference between our "serial fornicators" and mahoundian types?

Ours usually stick to one at a time.

owait, I know the point we're missing.

Mohammed (and the MEN who follow him) are MEN. This guy was talking about a GIRL. I keep forgetting about the ol' double standard where what's good for the gander is stone-pile fodder for the goose.

Silly me.

Even though it takes two to tango.

Interesting that Umar Lee says he does "not have time" to grant an interview with Spencer at this time. If not now, when? Why wouldn't Umar Lee--who apparently does little other than talk and write about the goodness of Islam, and the badness of the infidels--jump at the opportunity to refute a famous critic of Islam like Spencer? Why doesn't Umar Lee want to use this opportunity to set the record straight to defend Islam, while dutifully waging jihad of tongue and pen against someone who he no doubt thinks is a major enemy of Islam?

Also interesting that Umar Lee has time, when asked about apostasy and the Rifqa Bary case, to veer off onto the topics of alleged "immoral[ity]" of western society and teenage girls' "serial fornicat[ion]". Why these topics?

Note Lee's apparent disgust at teenage girls' "serial fornicat[ion]", yet Lee has no objection to Muhammad and his companions having sex with multiple slave girls and captives, one after another. The Hadith indicate that Muhammad would have sex with all of his wives and slave girls in one night. These same pious sources boast, in this regard, that the prophet "had the strength of thirty men." Lee does not object to Muslim men raping non-Muslim women captives and slaves and then selling them off, as reported in the Hadith; nor does he object to Muslim men having slaves and slave girls. Slavery and sexual slavery in Islam doesn't bother Umar Lee.

Here's something that doesn't bother Umar Lee, from Malik's Muwatta:

"Yahya related to me from Malik from Nafi that the slave girls of Abdullah ibn Umar used to wash his feet and bring him a mat of palm leaves while they were menstruating. Malik was asked whether a man who had women and slave girls could have intercourse with all of them before he did ghusl. He said, "There is no harm in a man having intercourse with two of his slave girls before he does ghusl. It is disapproved of, however, to go to a freewoman on another's day. There is no harm in making love first to one slave girl and then to another when one is junub." Malik was asked about a man who was junub and water was put down for him to do ghusl with. Then he forgot and put his finger into it to find out whether it was hot or cold. Malik said, "If no filth has soiled his fingers, I do not consider that that makes the water impure." " (Book #2, Hadith #2.23.90)

See Abul Kasem's Sex and Sexuality in Islam for further information.

Umar Lee adds: "I am not a scholar but the ruling on apostacy is clear. In an ideal world the apostate would face death but there is no authority to implement the shariah in america so no she shouldnt be killed and besides this girl may very well be making the whole thing up."

Note the apologetic sleight-of-hand. He first says ideally there should be the death penalty for apostasy, but then he resorts to the usual apologetic diversion/distraction by claiming that America [or insert non-Muslim jurisdiction here] doesn't have sharia yet, therefore, he implies, apostates shouldn't be executed yet. This is a classic, well-worn line of apologetic evasion and double-talk. He also avoids the fact that there is no penalty in Islam for killing an apostate anyway.

Also note Lee's insertion of yet another irrelevancy, i.e., whether or not Rifqa is making up the specific allegations in her case. Whether or not Rifqa's particular claims are true (and there is evidence that they are true), all Umar is being asked here is whether or not he accepts the traditional penalty for apostasy. Note how he tries to cover up and deflect attention away from his own answer, i.e., that he believes apostates should be killed, but not in this particular space (the U.S.) at this particular time.

"In an ideal world she would be killed."

That's the world the jihadists and multiculturalists want for America.

Time for everyone to wake up.

Awake,

As usual you ignore and or forget every proof posted.

The current subject is apostasy and I posted two fatwas from two prominent scholars noting that there is no death penalty fir personal apostasy, as well as citing a plethora of verses in the quran speaking directly to the issue of apostasy as well as hypocricy in which no penalty was noted only a stern comment from God, "Leave them to Me."

So try to remember from one post to the next, okay?

Peace
Abdullah

As usual the whitewashers like Abdullah are at it again with their blockheadeness that we infidels just misunderstand Islam and that the koran speaks nothing about death to apostates. Hmm, well let us take a verse from the Koran calling for just that and from a saying from the Prophet Muhammed himself when commenting on apotasy, his own words.

Hadith 9:57-"Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." Now, how do you take that out of context? Did Muhammed not really mean it? I mean the muslims revere Muhammed, so would they say that Muhammed was just lying when he said that and not really meant it? Was he just misunderstanding himself?

Surah 4:89-They wish that you reject faith, as they have rejected (Faith), and thus that you all become equal (like one another). So take not Auliya (protectors or friends) from them, till they eimigrate in the way of Allah (to Muhammed). But if they turn back (from Islam), take (hold of) them and kill them wherever you find them, and take neither Auliya (protectors or friends) nor helpers from them.

Was Muhammed just "misunderstanding" his false god allah when he received that revelation or what he thought was a revelation.

As you will see in this particular verse, it makes the statement that do not take them as Auliya (protectors or friends). There is another verse in the koran, Surah 5:51 that elaborates more on this statement. The whole verse centers arounds this theme.

Maybe Muhammed again "misunderstood" his false god allah when he received what he believed to be a revelation. If allah is all-knowing, why would his one so called beloved prophet "misunderstand" him?

Maybe Rifqa Bary just "misunderstood" when her muslim father said he would kill her for converting to Christianity. But then why would she flee in terror of this ominous threat if it were not an Islamic obligation? Under Islamic jurisprudence, he has an obligation to kill her according to Surah 4:89 and Hadith 9:57 to be considered a good and abiding muslim. Rifqa was a muslim all her life up until the time she converted to Christianity. I think she would understand her religion better than I would. I think she understands it better than Abdullah himself.

What about the afghan man who left Islam, converted to Christianity, and had to seek asylum in the UK? He was threatened with the death penalty for leaving Islam. Were the ones who issued the fatwa against him, just "misunderstanders" of Islam like Umar Lee?

The muslims revere the Koran as the true word of allah, and the hadiths (the sayings of Muhammed) as second to the Koran. So why is it so hard for them when confronted by the koranic sayings to exhort violence and murder towards infidels, or death for apostates, suddenly it becomes a clear case of textual inaccuracies on the part of the kafirs? (non-believers)?

If Muhammed were alive today, do you think that this would be a debate among Islamic scholars or the rest of the muslims around the world? That they would question their own prophet? Have the audacity to not follow the prophet's saying of Hadith 9:57? Or the Koranic Surah of 4:89?

Muslims today cannnot question the validity of their own religion, let alone the validity of their false god allah and his messenger.