Of course they do. An update on this story. "Sept. 11 Defendant Seeks a Trial, and a Platform," by Scott Shane for the New York Times, November 21:
The five men the Justice Department has said will be charged in the attacks of Sept. 11 intend to plead not guilty so they can express their political and religious views during a trial, the lawyer for one of the men said on Saturday.
The lawyer, Scott L. Fenstermaker, said that during a meeting at the Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, prison on Tuesday, his client, Ali Abd al-Aziz Ali, expressed the desire for a trial despite his intention to admit his role in the attacks and seek "martyrdom" through execution.
"He acknowledges that he helped plan the 9/11 attacks, and he says he's looking forward to dying," Mr. Fenstermaker said of Mr. Ali. But he said he expected Mr. Ali and his co-defendants to plead not guilty "so they can have a trial and try to get their message out."
Mr. Ali, also known as Ammar al-Baluchi, is a nephew of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the chief organizer of the 2001 plot. Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. announced on Nov. 13 that Mr. Mohammed, Mr. Ali and three other alleged 9/11 plotters would be tried in federal criminal court. Mr. Fenstermaker said Mr. Ali told him all five men would seek a trial.
The report of Mr. Ali's comments may add to complaints from critics of Mr. Holder's decision who favored military trials in Cuba and have said a criminal trial will provide terrorists with a propaganda platform. Defenders of the move say military commissions, too, would have given the defendants a public showcase for their views.
The Justice Department did not respond to a request for comment.
Mr. Fenstermaker, who represents Mr. Ali in a civil case challenging his detention and visited him for three days last week, gave The New York Times a translation from Arabic of a two-page letter written by Mr. Mohammed, Mr. Ali, and a third 9/11 defendant, Walid Muhammad Salih bin Attash to the military court at Guantánamo in September.
The letter was written to say that the men had no objection to a 60-day continuance in military commission proceedings. But the three men used it to condemn the United States' military presence in Muslim countries and its support for Israel, a preview of the kind of thing they might be expected to say in court.
"We were arrested in 2003 and we spent three years moving around between the black sites in the 'Dark Ages' of Bush, then we were transferred to the island of oppression, torture and terror, Guantánamo, in 2006," the letter said. The phrase 'Dark Ages' was in English in the original, the translator noted.
The letter goes on to excoriate President Obama, describing the current era as "the black ages of Barack" and calling him "a liar." The three men offer greetings to Osama bin Laden; his deputy in Al Qaeda, Ayman al-Zawahiri; and the head of the Afghan Taliban, Mullah Mohammed Omar.
Since their first appearances in military court at Guantánamo, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and the other 9/11 defendants have indicated that they would admit their role in the terrorist plot and seek to be executed. But when they are indicted and brought to New York City for arraignment, as expected sometime in the next two months, they will have the option afforded any criminal defendant of pleading not guilty and standing trial....
By all means, let's give all our enemies the platform for Da'wa they're looking for!
God, what insanity...
Treating Islamic terrorsim as "merely" a crime is stupid. It's an act of war by believers in the longest-lived totalitarian ideology on earth. There is, however, a possible silver lining in this recent idiocy by the Obama Administration and that is that Muslims in a Western court of law may very well spew forth much of the hatred that resides in Islam for non-believers or for any opposing point of view. As is always the case, the more Islam is exposed for what it is to the world at large, the more it will discredit itself. Ironically and paradoxically, Islam is just about its own worst enemy. Relishing this reality is a very sweet thing indeed.
I would have to agree with Wellington here. They are about to shed the light of islam on the world.
I have my popcorn ready, it's just a shame that we'll also have the inevitable attacks to deal with once the trial starts. They won't be able to resist the opportunity for jihad.
More examples of 'idiot-islam' for all to see.
My prediction:
The defendants will explain their motives, which will be recognized by us JWers instantly as boilerplate jihadist ideology, but which will be misinterpreted by the MSM and ascribed to the usual categories of victimization and politically correct idiocy.
On balance, the resulting food fight just might be bad for the Obowma administration.
Their plan works for me. Anything to alert more Americans, to open their eyes and ears to the insanity of Islam, is a great thing.
Let 'er rip, boys!
I agree. Let them spew forth their hatred for all to see and hear. They should also be allowed their wish for execution - but with one proviso. They must be immediately buried in a pigskin shroud which, in their twisted view of the world and the hereafter (ha ha), should prevent them entering paradise.
Presumably the "moderates" will have no reason to complaim since these people have offended the peaceful nature of Islam so have no right to enter paradise anyway and must be committed to hell.
mUSLIMS NEED TO BE EXPOSED FOR PEDOPHILIA AND SEE THE IMAMS on the internet espousing pedophilia. It is sickening. We all need to send his picture and quran 65:4 which gives Muslims permission to sex babies. The Little Green Book by Ayatollah K. says it is holy to sex animals, babies of 2 months and smoke weed but no wine. Let's send enough comments to the MSM with pictures of what lye looks like in the faces of little girls going to school, a 12 year old boy doing his first beheading jihad, 20 shia cut up by sunni in Pakistan like pigs cut up at the market. Send the info to all the churches you can because they have their heads in the sand and want to interfaith with the DEVIL.
Everything the Bible said dont do allah said do.
Dont kill
allah said kill
dont lie
allah said lie
Bible told Christians to have one wife at a time and one husband
Allah said marry 4 permanent wives and as many temporary wives as you can pay for, 4:24, 4:34. Fornication and adultery is holy in Islam and Mo had as many rapes as he wanted to. The same night he killed the Jewish girl's father and her husband Mo made her have sex.
Mo is the best example that Muslims can have. Moderate or radical, they are still MUSLIMS. What part of the Quran is moderate. What prophet do moderates follow? quran 3:54 says who it is the greatest liar, deceiver, schemer SATAN THE DEVIL the allah of the world.
Wellington wrote:
As is always the case, the more Islam is exposed for what it is to the world at large, the more it will discredit itself.
..............................
This is a good point. The problem is that so many—both Muslim apologists and clueless members of the media—will be quick to claim that this viciousness has "nothing to do with Islam".
Likely all too many will be predisposed to believe it—all evidence to the contrary.
The only platform those guys deserve is the kind with the trap door below and the noose above.
I put the following commentary on my own page at RedState.com, Pamela Geller's Atlas Shrugs, an NRA forum I frequent and e-mailed to an organization where I'm a member.
Hope you don't mind it here as well..... I believe the questions I ask are something to seriously consider.
--- --- --- --- ---
Mr. Scott L. Fenstermaker, Esq. (New York) is the lead attorney for defendant Ali Abd al-Aziz Ali and is representing his client pro bono per another NY Times article: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/22/us/22trial.html?_r=2&sq=Fenstermaker&st=cse&adxnnl=1&scp=1&adxnnlx=1258921266-TwApWR6EUORpsNKv+zPxwA
Mr. Fenstermaker’s firm’s website: www dot fenstermakerlaw dot com
A Wikipedia page (as usual there, full vetting of information is not guaranteed): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_L._Fenstermaker
Mr. Fenstermaker seems to have a bit of an interesting history challenging things vis-a-vie the government. Take a trip through the official public documents and you’ll see.
--- --- --- --- ---
Ask yourself the following questions regarding this trial:
1. Who are the defendant’s attorneys and their firms ?
2. What (if any) are the attorney’s firm’s, partner’s, individual attorney’s and other staff’s connections to the current administration and people within the government ?
3. What are the firm’s, partner’s, individual attorney’s and other staff’s contributions to the current administration - financial and other methods (like overtly campaigning and/or lobbying) ?
4. Where are the firm’s and attorney’s retainers and all fees coming from ?
--- --- --- --- ---
Pro bono my arse. The legal eagle part of this trial is going to cost millions of dollars at minimum, even if they move for (and receive) a mistrial on day one.
On question 4, my gut instinct says the answer is C.A.I.R.
--- --- --- --- ---
I’m a member of a group called ‘DC Works For Us’ and part of our internet setup is a message board. I’ve asked some of our members to help me research all attorneys working this case and post their findings to the board (Obviously, all info posted must be vetted-to-accurate and verifiable.).
Kenny Solomon
Of course I carry a gun.......
A police officer is too heavy.
Here's my analysis of this KSM trial situation in New York City:
KSM was waterboarded.
Other defendants were subjected to "harsh" interrogation techniques. Coerced confessions are not admissible in American Courts of Law.
KSM confessed to his part in the 9/11 attacks and to beheading Daniel Pearl.
Any regular American Court of Law will throw out the confessions as coerced and obtained under circumstances deemed cruel.
Muslims on the jury = hung jury = mistrial.
No Muslims on jury = reversal of conviction on appeal on Constitutional grounds that the trial was not one of his peers.
My guess is KSM will in all probability walk free into the United States of America.
There is no way there will be a conviction of these terrorists, short of a voluntary pleading of guilt in an American Court of Law by the rules of evidence and given the protections guaranteed these new "citizens" under the 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendments to the Constitution of The United States of America.
Mr. Holder and Mr. Obama are trial lawyers. They already know all of this. Holder is pulling our leg when he guaranteed there will be convictions. It's all a political show.
And when the show is over Mr. Holder and Mr. Obama will blame George W. Bush for all of it.
Maybe it will ultimately be a good thing for these jihadists to be given a platform. The way I see it, if Al-Qaeda bigshots explain how Islam justified their actions, maybe more people will see Islam for what it is, and not the peaceful fiction that the President, press, and politicians make it out to be. Obama's doing it this way to appeal to his base, but I think that more than 50% of Americans disagree with giving them a civilian trial. What's bad for Obama is good for American.
Any up and running sharia court would get them for using a weak fatwa.
Spot on, Wellington!
Here's another Great Idea:
http://sheikyermami.com/2009/11/23/great-idea/
Polls have shown for years that 19% of "Americans" hate America. BHO and his ilk represent this 19% so it is very natural that he give the enemy every chance to subvert our legal system and propagandize anyone who will listen, and sorry to say, some will listen.
Not guilty. Just doing their part to destroy from within!
Too bad the U.S. govt. forgot its own history, namely, the Barbary Wars of 1797 and 1801-5, when it first had to deal with Islamic terrorist pirates, and set its basic policy of kicking their butts and not paying their jizya or other bribes. Article 1 Sect. 8 of the U.S. Constitution provides for military tribunals for captured pirates and violators of the laws of nations. To bad that Atty. Gen. Eric Holder didn't read that far. Learn Islam's horrible history free online with the Historyscoper and check it out at http://go.to/islamhistory
"Muslims on the jury = hung jury = mistrial."
Infidelatlarge,
In a sane world, that would be gospel, provided that the Muslims on trial are the "right kind" of Muslims. I have to wonder, though, if Muslims on the jury would cheat their Gitmo brethren of their "martyrdom". It's hard to say...
I'd love to be a fly on the wall, during the voir dire.
"Kenny Solomon
Of course I carry a gun.......
A police officer is too heavy."
That's good--I love it!
"Polls have shown for years that 19% of "Americans" hate America. BHO and his ilk represent this 19%..."
This statistic overlooks a wider phenomenon. While 19% of Americans may hate America, there is a larger percentage of Americans, I am convinced, who while they may not hate America, nevertheless feel an inordinate guilt and shame if not also a dislike for America -- and it is this larger percentage who are the real problem, for their white guilt and shame is precisely the soil in which PC MC has taken root and grown to such prodigious sociopolitico-cultural proportions over the past 50-odd years, to the point where now we face an enemy whose evil, injustice, anti-liberal pathology, and deadliness to us becomes consistently obscured and whitewashed by our own society -- mostly because, at bottom, this inimical people are perceived to be an ethnic people: an an ethnic people can never be permitted to become an anemy to us, else we would begin to go down that old slippery slope toward genociding them. Even far short of that slippery slope -- even if we could be assured we would never in a million years go down it, we must prevent ourselves from the worst crime of all, that crime which is worse even than murder, and which must be avoided even more than the self-defense of our men, women and children: the crime of prejudice against Brown People. To prevent that horrible Thought Crime of Hate, that worst of all crimes, we must do everything we can to whitewash Muslims and to demonize any criticism of them.
The above is an articulation of the confused mess of thoughts and feelings of the PC MC mentality which that larger percentage Americans, those wishy-washy not-quite-haters but guilty, ashamed dislikers of their own America, feel in their hearts and think with their minds.
Yes, by all means let these f@#knuts take the world stage. Broadcast it live on all networks simultaneously with an interpereter. The American public needs to see and hear this. Lastly, pre-empt NFL football and NASCAR with the courtroom broadcast and watch the anti-jihad, anti-sharia movement in America explode.
But I thought Islam is a religion of peace. I don’t know what your perception is, but aren’t these reports of confrontations on American soil with “Islamic Fundamentalist” becoming more frequent ? This is what happens when Americans tolerate immigration from countries whose people believe in and practice a religion and political system that holds up as their symbol of a perfect human being a man who believed in the practice of violence to make people think and act as he thought they should. Of course all leaders are ordained by God, and Mohammad was the only “true messenger” of God. The holy book of Islam, the Koran, and the Hadith, an autobiographical account of Mohammad’s adherence to the Koran, both preach violence towards and submission to those who don’t believe in or practice Islamicism.
America has allowed 8 million Muslims, most of which are Islamist, in the country. Not only are they not assimilating, they vow by the powers of Mohammad that you and I will eventually conform to their religion and laws. Now the violent fanatical Islamist cannot be differentiated from the non – violent Islamist. Are we suppose to play the cat and mouse game of waiting for a violent act to occur, or hear about someone who is planning a violent act before we take action to correct this? Even the non – violent Islamists are complicit in allowing or approving of the violent behavior, because they don’t denounce it, or they don’t report the people within their faith who are practicing violence to the authorities even though they know or have heard of those who live in their tightly knit communities who practice violence. If and when the violent Islamist takes over a community or town and imposes Sharia law, the non – violent Islamist conforms to the conditions imposed on them. And when someone commits an honor killing of some lady who didn’t follow the dictates of Sharia law, the non – violent Islamist stands passively by allowing this to happen in front of them. If One is not part of the solution, they are part of the problem.
In the meantime their numbers grow even larger. Many continue to immigrate to this country and are supported by or welfare programs. Since the Islamic religion allows polygamy, one husband can impregnate many wives. They won’t be recognized by American law as wives, but by Sharia they are the wife of that one man. In any case our welfare system pays for this. The Mosques and Madras’s set up in the Muslim communities teach the hatred of other religions and the infidels who practice anything but Islam, so there is an endless supply and growing number of future terrorists growing here on American soil. Question: what is the solution to this problem? We are going to have to make some very unpopular choices and get our hands very dirty if we are to turn this around. The question is do we have the leaders who have the political will, and the people who have the stomach to see those choices through, or like Europe, are we going to use civility against an enemy waiting until their Mosques, Madras’s, people, and resources grow in number, and they gradually push our culture aside?
"I'd love to be a fly on the wall, during the voir dire."
Abscedere:
A fly on the wall during voir dire at KSM's trial would probably be looking at a steaming smorgasbord of taqiyya.
I do not feel that these vicious animals getting up on the platform will add any more demonization to Islam. The so called "moderate" muslims will just say we do not agree with them and that the killing of innocent people is not condoned in Islam, while at the same time silently cheering again like they did on 9/11.
Even though their own prophet murdered innocent people because they would not jump on board with his sadistic cult beliefs. The more that the so called "moderates" remain silent and inactive will only lend more credence that they will eat their own words one day while they continue to say that Islam is a peaceful and tolerant religion and nobody believes them like the boy who cried wolf.
They say silence is golden, but in this case it can be deadly. According to a poll done back in October, 59% of Americans believe that Muslims are unfairly targeted, not considering the fact that they push for their religion in our public schools, not show any action against terrorism,file grievances anytime they get pulled over for speeding, and the ones we are picking up for terrorist plotting have been muslim, may have something to do with that high number. But then again, that just shows that Americans are buying into the propaganda ensued by Cair and their sister organization like ISNA.
These hypocrites hate our freedoms and democracy, and want to replace our constitution with Shariah law while using the constitution to perform in their premier of "We are the victims here"!! The fact that it is America's fault that 9/11 happened. Not that before America had a foreign policy or was even a country for that matter, that Islamic jihadists were invading infidel lands and murdering them by the thousands. Killing the men and kidnapping the women and children for sex and slavery. Were using Koranic verses Surahs 9:5,8:60:9:29 to justify these invasions.
When the German saboteurs landed on American shore to spy for Germany, and after they were captured, they were put on trial by military commissions and executed. President Roosevelt's decision was upheld by the Supreme Court. We never gave them constitutional rights or a platform to rail against the American government that was fighting a war. The Nazis were tried in Nuremberg after WW2 and 11 officers were executed, many were given life, and many nazi soldiers did flee. We did not bring one Nazi officer or soldier to America to try them in Federal Courts, nor give them our due process afforded by our constitution.
These vicious murderous animals will play the very system they hate. Under the Geneva Conventions, they do not wear a uniform, pledge allegiance to any nation, and they purposely target innocent civilians. They are not afforded the Prisoners of War protection status afforded to those in uniform and loyal to their country. These guys are loyal to the sadistic cult of Islam first and that will never change.
These guys are confessed Islamic extremists who plotted and conspired the deaths of 3000 Americans. It is not like they went into a bank, robbed it, and then shot a few hostages. We are war!! During the trial of Omar Abdel-Rahman, the perpetrator of the 1993 New York trade center bombing, Rahman’s attorneys forced the release of the list of unindicted co-conspirators developed by the prosecution.
One of the names on the list? Osama bin Laden. Soon after, bin Laden fled Sudan.
This could happen in this 9/11 trial. Eric Holder's excuse is that the majority of those killed on 9/11 were American citizens, but we have to remember there were military personnel killed as well on planes and in the Pentagon. The perpetrator of the 2000 Cole bombing, will be given a military commission. Why the double standard? This a war, not a crime spree. Any American non military civilians killed by Islamic terrorists, their killers will be tried in a Federal court given all the immenities of a due process, while military personnel killed by these mangy pigs will get military commission trials. Should we not do the same for all? Are the non-military victims of terrorism lives worth less? Should they not be afforded the same? Why are we giving the message to other Islamic terrorists that it is ok to kill American civilians on their soil and they will only be tried in a Federal court and not a military commission and encumbered with the same rights as an American common criminal would get? Would that not empower them to target American civilians even more?
Obama, his administration, and Eric Holder want to open up old wounds again and pour more salt on them, just to show the world that America will uphold its values and give Islamic terrorists who have waged war on America, her citizens, and allies the unalienable rights of ordinary American citizens. It is a slap in the face and a hung jury or a mistrial can have magnimonious implications for the Obama administration. They cannot afford a no guilty verdict. This a circus trial and the 5 clowns will be able to have their performance along with their heartless lawyer.
Roosevelt did not give a damn what the world thought on our handling of the German saboteurs, the Nazi soldiers, or the Nazi officers. It is time to give the world the middle finger and do what is right for America.
I say we execute them and then bury them in pig's blood so that way they cannot get into their paradise.
If Fenstermaker is a Jewish lawyer from NYC, simply using this opportunity to make a name for himself, then he should be eternally shamed.
Jews who willfully support Mohammedans, knowing the context of the Islamic canonical texts as we all do here at JW, are a certain type of animal that I've not yet deciphered.
Potentially troubling.
"While 19% of Americans may hate America, there is a larger percentage of Americans, I am convinced, who while they may not hate America, nevertheless feel an inordinate guilt and shame if not also a dislike for America"
If the 19% were represented by "black", the guilt and shame types are all shades of "grey". They are the target of Holder and Obama's propaganda campaign with KSM. You are exactly correct in your analysis of the subject. Liberal people I know, do fit this pattern exactly. They feel sorry for the Palestinians. One of these friends is a Jew. Same thing. It is a strange thing. The guilt and shame description fits exactly and nothing else does.
David Horowitz says that the left are the "destroyers" and the right are the "creators". We have a ring side seat watching the "destroyers" at work.