"Islam opposes such actions as committed by Maj. (Nidal Malik) Hasan. The Qur'an considers human life sacred."
Well, evidently one man's sacred is not another man's sacred:
"And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. " -- Qur'an 2:191
"They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks." -- Qur'an 4:89
"Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: Every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto: if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them: In their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them." -- Qur'an 4:91
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter." -- Qur'an 5:33
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful." -- Qur'an 9:5
"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain..." -- Qur'an 9:111
"Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks..." -- Qur'an 47:4
"Fort Hood attack unrelated to Islam, local Muslim leaders say," by Jennifer Chambers for The Detroit News, November 13:
Southfield -- Leaders of Metro Detroit's Muslim community gathered this morning to urge all Americans to view the Fort Hood shooting as a criminal act and unrelated to the faith of Islam."Islam opposes such actions as committed by Maj. (Nidal Malik) Hasan. The Qur'an considers human life sacred," Imam Steve Elturk of the Islamic Association of North America said Friday morning at a press conference called by the Council of Islamic Organizations of Michigan....
If this is so why then do we have so many examples of how islam has no respect for non-moslems?
Oh, c'mon Robert. Stop quoting from that cwazy version of the Qur'an you keep relying on, the one nobody reads, no one believes in, and all over official Washington everyone knows what you are quoting is from a garbled, completely unreliable, terribly translated, and no doubt sinisterly tampered with by you, version of the Qur'an. Cut it out. Play fair. Give us the real Qur'an, the one that explains we have nothing to worry about.
"Islam opposes such actions as committed by Maj. (Nidal Malik) Hasan. The Qur'an considers human life sacred."
Well, the problem is that we kuffars aren't really human. The Qur'an spends about 60% of its time talking about how believers should deal with unbelievers. And it isn't nice.
47:4 "When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah's Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter, either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam."
Kuffars have no standing in sharia courts, mulsimahs may not date or marry kuffar men, a kuffar's property can be taken away from him at any time, even if he has been a good dhimmi and pays the jizya. Kuffars can be killed by muslims and the muslim killer need not pay the compensation he would have to if his victim was another muslim.
To muslims, we are not their equals in any stretch of the imagination. Note how we are treated by the muslim apologists who troll JW from time to time. Kuffars are considered the same as feces.
Hey, they must have finally tuned in to MSNBC and read all the stories in the MSM and realized that, you know, if the poor saps are actually buying this stuff, why don't we run with the story, too?
A quote from a member of the Islamic Association of North America.
Never, ever, believe or give any credibility to any statement from a Muslim Brotherhood front group.
Memo to imam Steve Elturk: GFY! The evidence is overwhelmingly not helping your false argument(s).
I've seen a few Muslims denounce the Fort Hood attack as non-Islamic b/c of this verse from the Quran: To kill one person is like killing the whole of mankind, and to save one person, is like saving the whole of mankind.
However, many more Muslims debate the validity of this verse by pointing us in the direction of Ibn Kathir, and his opinion on it. Other stances I've heard as to why the jihad attack was justified is the fact that the victims were in the military, thus cannot be considered as "innocent." Why? Because they were going to kill innocent Iraqi and Afghani Muslims.
The most frightening fact I see is that these statements justifing Hasan's attack at Fort Hood are coming from Muslims who are as American as I am. You would never guess they held these views from there participation in "Infidel" activiites, for example drinking and women, but below the surface lies potentially influential and dangerous individuals.
When Jennifer and her dhimmi PC/MC cohorts finally realize this, perhaps they'll grab our attention.
Consider (my interpretation of) Hirsi Ali's admittedly imperfect categorization of Muslims:
1. Apostates (no problem, especially to the extent that they don't maintain a loyality to the umma)
2. People who agree that there is a problem and who seek a new way (no problem, for now, or perhaps ever; the folks at the American Islamic Forum for Democracy may be truly cool; perhaps Hugh has some words about this)
3. People who insist on a commonality between Islam and modern, pluralistic society. (Ali points to the ineffectual, neighborhood Imams who are trying to have it both ways; these people are something of a problem because they add fog.)
4. Stealth Jihadists; people who sympathize to some extent with terrorists and who, with greater-or-lesser intensity, provide a fog for their operations. (difficult problem)
5. Jihadists. (difficult problem)
So... are the Detroit Muslim leaders in category 3, 4, or 5?
let's see of we apply the principle of reciprocity (do onto them...) on some of these teachings.
And slay the Muslims wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not on your sacred land, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those Muslims who violate the constitution
Followers of Islam but wish that ye should reject the constitution, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of the American People. But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.
and simply
Therefore, when ye meet the Believers of Islam (in fight), smite at their necks..
Hmm, now imagine the we opened schools and community meeting areas around the country indoctrinating everyone with such teachings and then claim that any consequence had nothing to do with us.
Quite rightly we'd be shut down in an instant. So why is it ok for proponents of Islam? When does freedom of region become an abuse of that freedom by infringing on the rights of others?
I'd be much more comforted if they did not say these things at a press conference for infidels, but at their mosque during the friday sermon.
"I've seen a few Muslims denounce the Fort Hood attack as non-Islamic b/c of this verse from the Quran: To kill one person is like killing the whole of mankind, and to save one person, is like saving the whole of mankind."-- from a poster above
Yes, they enjoy quoting 5.32, secure in the knowledge that their audience of Infidels will not know 5.33, or even know enough to ask about it, and how it changes entirely the meaning of 5.32 in its proper context.
Whoa! Raven_, THAT's some interesting stuff. If you every have time, I would love to see the Un-holy Grrrran turned completely around against the "believers" - as you have begun. It would make interesting reading and might bring some fresh perspective to everyone. Y'mean, no one has yet published something like it? hmmmmmm....
So did the Aztecs consider human life sacred. That's why they tore the living hearts from their captive's breasts (thousands at a time) and offered them to their 'god'.
"Islam opposes such actions as committed by Maj. (Nidal Malik) Hasan. The Qur'an considers human life sacred."
Tell that to the families of the many millions who have been murdered by Muslims in the name of allah. If human life is so sacred then why are Muslims always threatening to kill "infidels"?
Why isn't this lesson being taught at each and every mosque in the world?
No 5.32 without 5.33. No 5.32 without 5.33. Write this out, o learned journalists, a thousand times. And don't blot your copybook. You've blotted your copybook quite enough as it is.
"The Qur'an considers human life sacred."
Yeah, yeah. And no one is allowed to kill innocents either. But that depends on what the definition of "is" is.
And here we see ignorance on display...people who claim to know something and actually show they know nothing.
Boiling down their arguements to slective out of context quotes...and the audience is programmed to respond to snippets as if they actually held meaning, when all meaning is lost in their being taken out of context.
What comes before and what comes after and their relation to the whole, yet they don't want people to use their minds because then they arrive at the truth...they want people to use their emotions and react, not think.
There is a very clear system of logic and reason behind all of the Quran that is destroyed by people when they pull a sentence out here and a verse out there and spin and twist the meaning to fit their agenda.
But hey, they'll sell you all about it for $18.95 a pop, won't they?
Peace
Abdullah
As time goes by we will hear more from DarIslam(sp) in the US. Detroit, MI aka Muslim stronghold.
Abdullah Mikail is so 2004 with his "out of context" charade. We've graduated way past that ploy here at Jihad Watch. I saw through the "out of context" defense years ago. Not only does it not work to exculpate the fanatically bloodthirsty verses of the Koran; the context usually makes them worse.
Nothing to do with islam, of course. It is the fault of all those Joos, Hindus, and Buddhists. Relax folks, you have nothing to worry about from islam (except your own death). Abdullah assures us so.
Well this goes to show that in public, condemm the violence by Muslim leaders, in private praise it.
In other words, use tayyqia by the Detroit Muslim leaders to the non-Muslims.
"There is a very clear system of logic and reason behind all of the Quran that is destroyed by people when they pull a sentence out here and a verse out there and spin and twist the meaning to fit their agenda."
The jihadists are putting it all in context for us.
Of course, the "out of context" is straight out of the Muslim Brotherhood manifesto/playbook:
Keep this mind the next time you hear or read "out of context."
(Credit to Civilus Defendus.)
Abdullah,
let's say that non-muslims found "the organization of global peace"
it's constitution will have clauses about peace and love onto humanity, there will only be a few extra clauses about killing and slaying Muslims unless the submit and conform. And any member killing belligerent Muslims will get rewarded handsomely.
These clauses should not be taken out of context of course and if any member actually follows them that is not a reflection on the organisation.
The "kill Muslims" clauses really mean "peace and love"
I am sure CAIR will be fine with such an organisation.
Mohamedans lie so much they can't lie straight in bed at night.
The day will come when they tell us that even Islam has "nothing to do with Islam" - and AM will be an enthusiastic supporter of this kind of Islamo-logic.
What a f*#Kwit!
when muslims say you take the koran out of context, well it seems a whole lot of muslims take their koran out of context with all that killing of innocents .. but then what is an innocent? does not apply to Jewish children or other civilians living in Israel according to hamas.
when muslims say you take the koran out of context, well it seems a whole lot of muslims take their koran out of context with all that killing of innocents .. but then what is an innocent? does not apply to Jewish children or other civilians living in Israel according to hamas.
Notice AbdullahMikhail speaks of Islam-critics taking verses out of context, but offers no specific examples. He can only talk in generalities because specifics don't support him.
For example, this specific. According to the most canonical Islamic texts, Muhammad said,
"Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him."
AbdullahMikail has no good answer to people troubled by Muhammad's murderous fanatacism, as for example embodied in those statements. AbdullahMikail has no good answer for the fact that all the schools of Islamic law, following Muhammad, support the death penalty for apostasy from Islam.
But apostate killing in Islam is only the outer wall of a prison that inside contains a significant number of totalitarian elements, many of them rooted in minds, such as terror of the incredible sadism of hell as graphically described in the Qur'an. Apart from enslaving minds, the prison's core totalitarianism is the Islamic rejection of any separation of religion and state. Not only did Muhammad not reject the things that are Caesar's. Muhammad became Caesar, and more. Muhammad became the religious dictator of an expansionist theocratic State.
"When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah's Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them..." (47:4)
So Hasan reportedly chose a non-sanguinary branch of medecine because he could not stand the sight of blood.
Or would he rather play with the infidel's mind than fix his body?
Obviously preferred cutting them down to cutting them up.
I guess the great "prophet" took verses in the qur'an out of context too because he certainly didn't speak kindly of infidels, kuffars, unbelievers, etc. There aren't too many ways to interpret what is crystal clear but even if we ignore what is written in islam's diabolical canonical texts, we still have the problems of islamic law, the individual muslim's interpretation of qur'anic verses, and the opinions of islamic clerics and scholars.
They are all in agreement that muslims are superior to non-muslims and are the rightful rulers of the world; Jews are descended from apes and pigs; Christians and Jews can be dhimmis if they're extra nice, suitably humiliated, and pay jizya, but if for any reason whatsoever muslims decide they don't like them any more, muslims are free to kill them and take their property. Only muslims are "innocent" and "human" so where does that leave the rest of us? We're not buying the "out of context" BS and the condemnations by the muslim spokesmen are just more lies to palliate the fury of the infidels. The deniers and dummies might believe their taqiya but nobody here is buying it. They're just buying time to continue their infiltration and assaults on our freedom and sovereignty.
I still have to pinch myself sometimes to ensure I'm not dreaming that millions of alien muslims have invaded my country, are killing or plotting to kill Americans, and plan to overthrow our government, replace it with sharia, and enslave all of us. It's almost too surreal to believe that these arrogant megalomaniacs are deadly serious and nobody in our government is doing a damn thing about it. In fact, they and our illustrious media are helping them!!
More and more it appears that the difference between devout Mainstream 'Moderate' Muslims and Islamic Extremists boils down to a disagreement on the proper timing for 'Jihad of the Sword'.
I treasure my American freedom to believe as I will and to share those beliefs in peaceful assembly. Can I condone taking that freedom from another?
I have heard it said "A mans got to be understanding to get along in this world and but keep your powder dry and close to hand"
You really are a piece of shit.
"...and spin and twist the meaning to fit their agenda."
Uh-huh! ...yeah, AM knows all about spinning and twisting the truth about islam out of whack.
OK Hugh, its in the post. Be careful when you open it though !
Robert, the problem is one of definition. To Muslims you and I and our peers are not humans, we're descendents of monkeys and pigs. That means we're animals.
{o.o}
Muslims lie.
And as we see on almost a daily basis, especially Abdullah Mike.
Since the koran says that all life is sacred,why aren't
Muslims following it.They seem to be able to find and quote
verses from said koran that says differently.
The ONLY one "Out of Context" is Resident Taqyiaa Artist/ TROLL Abdullah Mikhail.
He's OUT OF CONTEXT with TRUTH and Reality,DELIBERATLY.
It's called TAQYIAA.
AbdullahMikhail - you are so close to breaking free from the chains of Islam - you have the intellectual power. There is freedom and joy on the other side. Granted, switching is real trouble. Please don't be put off by some of the expletives aimed at you here. Folks are understandably angry about the real violence and lies emanating from Islam and the twisty rhetoric that you and others use to try to explain it all away and exonerate Islam by substituting your extreme and blasphemous Islam-lite.
Get free - you can do it!
I invite you to abandon the worship of creation and things that will neither help you nor harm you and hold no power over even their own end. Worship God directly with no idol between you and God...then you will have true freedom, not the illusion you hold on to now.
I will hold on to God until the very end and that will be just the beginning.
You will hold on to your belief the same.
We have invited each other, so there is no burden between we two before God.
Peace
Abdullah
Prove it.
Peace
Abdullah
That you think this is and others say this is only ignorance.
Don't spend your life in ignorance...in the end, there will be nothing more expensive than regret.
Peace
Abdullah
Quran is the perfect,unabridged word of God as transmitted through More-ham-Fred(oops).
Therefore,each line is perfect.
Therefore,each line can stand alone as an individual truth.
Therefore,there is no "context".There is no reason for one
verse to rely on another if it is perfect.
Whadya thinka that,AM?
Yes.... because that might raise some serious questions and the concomitant ramifications if not addressed.... seriously, and soberly.
People for example, enjoy japanese things in general- judo, aikido, brush painting, their singular trainings that have maintained for them, a singular peopled island that bluntly keeps out 'foreign' influence. And by the time of the late 30's with an 'Imperial' Japanese entity conquering asia, capturing nations and establishing concentration type camps, medical experiments upon non japanese etc, and demonstrating that they were a serious enemy- by the time they attacked pearl harbor, it was apparent that we were in a fight for our lives and freedoms.
Difficult decisions like incarceration of whole populations and not only japanese, but some germans and italians, were mandated and after the terrible wars that cost 50 millions of lives and wounded, were reversed and although the wiping out of an imperial version of the japanese culture as a ruling ideology, and governance as well as the nazi ideology as a form of governance was understood as the necessary course that ended their respective tyrannies.
Now... people enjoy japanese culture and similarly the 'germanic' cultural entities but without their respective impositions upon the entire world that inundated the world in war and tyranny.
Likewise, if we study the Qu'ran, and find it speaks of 'Jihad' about 62% of the course of the book, and this is in regards to what muslims are supposed to do about and too infidels and dhimmi's, as opposed to the minority of the tome that directs muslims how to be muslim style religous, it would necessitate the question as to what 'infidels' are and what 'dhimmis' are, and how they are too be treated.
Now... if all that had been reversed in muslim history, and in muslim commentary we might explain it away as neither a threat nor a potential threat.
But since none of that has occurred and since history is replete with 'submission' of infidels and dhimmi's by Islam and 'colonizing' of areas previously non muslim and eradicating of almost all of the original cultural and religious history within those areas by Islam, then of course, we would be faced with the reality of what Islam's theology and history represent. The 270 millions thus far murdered by Islam represent the obliquy to the muslim source and sight.
The modern affliction of the west that demands moral, historical and theologic relativism is a scourge that has disallowed analysis and even common sense.
This... we must insist upon, rather than the inanity of willful self-deception in the name of 'correctness' in all it's eviscerating, errant and corrupted iterations.
And it is not about hating muslims or being discourteous to mom and pop muslims wherever they might be. But unless we allow ourselves to drill down logically, clearly, without fear of 'offending' someone's sensibilities- which is the vicious duplicitous course of the UN and Islam, then all our freedoms and independence are threatened.
That of course is another problem but the likely next one, when even speaking facts will be attempted by such bodies to be made illegal, because someone was 'offended' by the words.
If muslims don't want to see images of Mohammed, nor depictions that's a religious practice for them to go to their reward. But to impose that upon non-muslims is a political act and one we should strive to outlaw, since it has no meaning to a non muslim.
And similarly, when religious jewish people reframe from eating pork, they are performing religious obligation which they do not impose and never did upon non-muslims. Yet when muslims dare open their mouths with disdain that no one be allowed to do such, that is a political act which they should have no right to enforce upon others- whom they refer too as infidels.
This is the common sense, the diginity of our western freedoms which we must fight for, and with a ferocity that disallows their right to threaten, riot, murder and cower others with their bigotry and tyrannical theology and polity.
That we must fight against.
"When does freedom of region become an abuse of that freedom by infringing on the rights of others?"
When Islamic teachings of hate are allowed in schools and mosques on our soil -- when deceits regarding the true meaning of Islamic jihad supremacists, who then use our religious freedoms to shield us from the truth; when useful idiots in media and government enable Islamic doctrine to be taught under protection of the 1st amendment; when anyone crying "Foul!" to Islamic encroachments of hate and violence on our soil is threatened for saying so. In direct violation of the 1st amendment, then our freedom of religion is abused, and in abrogating our freedoms, all our rights are abused.
"Don't spend your life in ignorance...in the end, there will be nothing more expensive than regret."
Peace
Abdullah
Ladies and gentlemen.
In a posting above, our Mohammedtroll pontificates about 'ignorance'. He means, of course, the 'ignorance' of all us non-Muslims who so unaccountably refuse to submit to Islam.
Now, let's think about what, precisely, Islam despises and condemns under the rubric of 'ignorance', jahiliyya.
Here are just a few of the things that are forbidden by sharia, things that are rejected and attacked - as products of 'ignorance' and 'darkness' - by the psychopathic life-hating sharia-enforcers.
The paintings of Rembrandt.
http://staff.science.uva.nl/~fjseins/RembrandtCatalogue/index.html
The sculpture of Auguste Rodin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rodin_TheKiss_20050609.JPG
http://www.msdlists.com/sculptures/Rodin%20The%20Kiss.html
And the sculpture of Michelangelo:
http://www.toffsworld.com/art_artists_painters/images/pieta_small.jpg
The poetry of Dante and the engravings of Dore - the Celestial Rose:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paradiso_Canto_31.jpg
And the music of Johann Sebastian Bach - from the Mass in B Minor
first some excerpts from a performance in Notre Dame de Paris, the great French cathedral dedicated to the Virgin Mary, the Theotokos):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8XHrT7DBwA
And this, from a different performance, the 'Et Resurrexit', celebrating the Resurrection of the Lord (which, of course, Muslims say did not happen, since they don't even think He was crucified...).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEABN5yejpc&feature=related
All of *that* - everything to which I have just posted links - is 'ignorance' according to Islam. ALL of it is classified as 'darkness'. Trash. Un-Islamic. The sharia enforcers want to destroy it *all*.
They would, if they could, smash all the coloured windows of Notre Dame and of every other Cathedral in the world; burn all the paintings in the Louvre and everywhere else; silence all the orchestras; burn all the musical scores and musical instruments; smash all the statues. They will, if they get the chance, smash to atoms 'The Kiss', and the 'Pieta', as they smashed to atoms the Bamiyan Buddhas.
And given that they would do this, in their ecstasy of burning hatred for all that is beautiful and good, why should we tolerate their presence in any country where as yet they are not dominant but where they assuredly *intend* to dominate if they can?
Dear Mr. AbdullahMikhail,
If after hearing your dawa, we call Islam demonstrably false and raise hundreds of documented objections to it and ask you to abandon Islam, since it is a monumental fraud... you have no choice...
You must now 'fight' us, mustn't you? You have no option or you have become a hypocrite, haven't you? Allah has told you to fight the infidels who resist.
If you do not go on jihad like Doctor Hasan, you will go to hell.
Some crazy supremacist ideology you want us to join!
Aren't you ashamed to defend this craziness?