"Everyone is watching to see what happens to Rifqa"

Pamela's efforts in behalf of Rifqa are really good karma as are Spencer's and the rest of the Rifqa supporters...
Personally I am more than appalled at the kufrs demonizing, and working against Rifqa, in the media and in person...I am royally pzzed off, and it will get much worse if they sink her ship. The audacity of these people who seem to think it is their sacred duty to gamble with her life...I can see this coming from CAIR and other Mahoundians, but kufrs? Do we need another title KINO...Kufrs In Name Only? So now we have RINO, DINO, MINO, KINO and AINO...Is anyone for real? I'm getting confused...

Another honor killing?
Say no to Sharia and freedom for Muslims to check out.

It's a test case for free people, and for America also.
....................

Pamela Geller could not be more correct. What happens to little Rifqa Bary will, I believe, set much of the tone of how not only we Americans handle the threat of Islam, but the West in general.

Let us act bravely and wisely. Kudos to Robert and Pamela for leading the fight for this young girl's life!

One can only wonder how much influence Ohio's governor has on this case, since it is reported he has basically been bought out by jihadists and their supporters.

All religions have criminals in them.

This christian preacher sexually abused his daughter and murdered his wife

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/31/preacher.freezer/index.html

All religions have criminals in them.

This christian preacher sexually abused his daughter and murdered his wife

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/31/preacher.freezer/index.html

If this is true then it is very sad and it needs to come out so the christians can deal with it fairly.
But, he does not represent all Christian and this is a good way to side track from the real issue, Rifqa is being denied her civil rights and right to religious freedom. Ohio seems to be follwing sharia law vs rule of law.

Are you a liberal or an apologist for the Islamacist?
Are you a charter member of CAIR?

All religions have criminals in them.

This christian preacher sexually abused his daughter and murdered his wife

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/31/preacher.freezer/index.html

If this is true then it is very sad and it needs to come out so the christians can deal with it fairly.
But, he does not represent all Christian and this is a good way to side track from the real issue, Rifqa is being denied her civil rights and right to religious freedom. Ohio seems to be follwing sharia law vs rule of law.

Are you a liberal or an apologist for the Islamacist?
Are you a charter member of CAIR?

Geller has been perfectly heroic on this subject.

"There are many reformers in Islam who believe as I do in everybody's free right to practice any religion or no religion at all or insult any religion"

Are those reformers dead or alive? Because I'm going with dead.

Great! So 45ch, what are you doing to support Rifqa's right, as a human being and as a girl living in America, to practice her religion the way she sees fit and to protect her from the father who said he would kill her if she "has this Jesus" in her heart?

Let's try again, shall we?

Rifqa Bary is currently under house arrest in a foster home in Columbus, Ohio. She has no access to her friends via visits, telephone conversations or email. Rifqa's crime? She apostasized from Islam and became a Christian. Now we know, as you know, that Muslim who leave Islam are threatened with death. The Prophet Mohammad said, "Any one who leaves his religion, kill him." Muslim clerics around the world enforce the prophet's edict by issuing fatwas demanding the death of apostates and promising eternal rewards and forgiving legal ramifications to any Muslim who will here the call and act. Ibn Warraq, Nonie Darwish, Magdi Cristiano Allam, Mark Gabriel and Walid Shoebat are just a few of the more well known former Muslim who left Islam and became Christians, and every one of them has a fatwa hanging over his/her head. So you are either lying 45ch or ignorant.

I think you're lying. You know that Rifqa is in danger of being murdered if she's sent back to her parents and I think you're totally fine with it. (Can't have any dissent if you want to keep the Good Old Boys Worship-the-Penis-Club intact. ; ) I think you're lying when you say you are a Christian because you don't seem to understand the basic concept of "Love your neighbor as yourself" or "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". You seek to vilify Christianity but don't bother to apologize for it's supposed actions, something you would do if you were really a Christian and you really feel bad about something that was done in the name of Christianity. You also give the standard pro-Islamic response of "Two independent investigations in Ohio and Florida found no credible evidence that Rifqa Bary's life was in danger".

Nobody's buying, 45ch, and you are simply not clever enough to pull that wool over our eyes. I've got to give you an "E" for effort though, even if you get an "F" for your lack of perception, attempting to shovel the same old same old here. Give us a break, will ya?

@45ch

The decision by the Florida court was wrong and you are wrong or ignorant on the subject of honor killings.

Don't you think it would be wise to error on caution regarding the girl (almost a woman).

Read a little more on the blog and do a little more studying about Islam. You don't know want you are talking about.

Here is an example. You say you are a Christian. If I disagreed with you according to Christ's teaching I could have you taken before the authorizes and possible have you stoned. This is what Islam teaches at its core. One last thing do you know when 99% of the muslims became muslims? When they were born into it. Is that how you became a Christian? Were is the free will in that? And remember if you apostate from Islam you are a dead man.

Lastly, from what I have studied and learned, Islam is antithetical to everything of virtue that is taught by Christ's love and example. This religion (I am being generous) is a cancer on this world and has been festering for 1400 years. Just another example of the sinfulness of man wouldn't you agree.

Here is an example. You say you are a Christian. If I disagreed with you according to Christ's teaching I could have you taken before the authorizes and possible have you stoned. This is what Islam teaches at its core. One last thing do you know when 99% of the muslims became muslims? When they were born into it. Is that how you became a Christian? Were is the free will in that? And remember if you apostate from Islam you are a dead man.

That was not the teachings of Christ - remember the parable of the woman caught in adultery or do you know it? This was the teaching of the Pharisees and other religious leaders of his time. True everyone by birth is a Muslim but in Christianity it is a free will chose to follow Christ, unless it is some weird cult- I mean today and not in history. so true - you are dead if you leave Islam! I spent time in Turkiye and taught so I have been immersed into an Islamic but at the same time a secular culture. Still Turkiye has limited religious freedom and this could happen there in secret. I witnessed the covert lack of religious freedoms there. love the Turkish people but I hate what is happening to Rifqa.
that is saying a lot also - I am half Greek my friend oh must rush off

45ch: If that preacher mentioned by 45 really did murder his wife, then he deserves to hang. See Genesis 9.6. Pull a dozen Christian fundamentalists out of a crowd at random, present the case to them, they'll probably say the same thing, rather than come up with an "honor killing" excuse.

I hope the world keeps watching the Rifqa Bary case. It's probably what's kept the girl from being murdered by now.

@eaglecap

You are correct. I was being sarcastic, talking to 45ch. This was just to drive home the point about Islam and everyone else when it come to doctrine. That is why I said what I said in my last paragraph.

LET'S ALL SEND RIFQA BARY CHRISTMAS CARDS TO BELOW ADDRESS AND LET HER KNOW THAT WE ARE PRAYING FOR HER SAFETY.

Rifqa Bary
c/o Angela Lloyd
255C Drinko Hall
55 West 12th Avenue
Columbus, OH 43201

Author Profile Page Mackie | November 30, 2009 7:47 PM | Reply

LET'S ALL SEND RIFQA BARY CHRISTMAS CARDS TO BELOW ADDRESS AND LET HER KNOW THAT WE ARE PRAYING FOR HER SAFETY.

Thank you for this address, i will certainly send her a card...

Author Profile Page Mackie | November 30, 2009 7:47 PM | Reply

LET'S ALL SEND RIFQA BARY CHRISTMAS CARDS TO BELOW ADDRESS AND LET HER KNOW THAT WE ARE PRAYING FOR HER SAFETY.

Thank you for this address, i will certainly send her a card...

"Somalia is a non-sharia state."

Lying again, 45. Sharia law is being enforced in Somalia by Somali Muslims. Therefore it is most certainly a Sharia state.

OK, 45ch

I'm laying it on the line.

Here's the Barnabas Fund online petition for the abolition of the Islamic Apostasy Law.

http://www.barnabasfund.org/UK/Action/Campaigns/Why-should-they-be-secret/Online-petition/

Will you sign it? Yes or No?

This is what the Barnabas Fund - founded by Canon Dr Patrick Sookhdeo, himself a convert from Islam to Christianity - has to say, in connection with their campaign against the Apostasy Law:

http://www.barnabasfund.org/UK/Action/Campaigns/Why-should-they-be-secret/

"Islam is a one-way street.

"You can convert to Islam but you are not allowed to convert from Islam.

"All schools of Islamic law, shari‘a, agree on this rule and specify the death sentence for an adult male Muslim who chooses to leave his Islamic faith.

"Most also impose the death penalty on women apostates.

"The rule was established many centuries ago by Islamic scholars, but even today most Islamic religious leaders and many ordinary Muslim people agree with it.

"The death penalty is rarely put into practice {by today's majority-Muslim states, I think, is what is meant here - dda}, *but the existence of this “apostasy law” is so well known amongst Muslims that it generates strong hostility towards apostates, whether from family or community, from religious or secular leaders, from police or judiciary* {my emphasis - dda}.

" So it is normal for converts from Islam to face persecution and violence. They may be arrested, either for apostasy or on a pretext.

"They may be attacked, beaten or even murdered by their own relatives.

"*And those who commit the violence will probably not be punished for it* {my emphasis - dda}.

"A further range of penalties for apostasy is laid down in shari‘a, including losing one’s spouse and children and forfeiting one’s property and inheritance.

"These are imposed in many Muslim contexts today.

"It is not surprising that many converts from Islam to Christianity keep their new faith secret, but why should they have to do so?

"Islam actively encourages non-Muslims to convert to Islam,

but it is the only world faith with a death sentence for those who leave it.

'The Islamic apostasy law also stands in stark contrast to Article 18 of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, published sixty years ago this month, which states that “Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief...”'.

Canon Dr Sookhdeo is an apostate from Islam to Christianity; he has studied the Islamic texts very extensively; and he has broad and deep knowledge of the situation of the churches in Islamic lands, and of the predicament of apostates from Islam...who, even within the UK, not being as 'high profile' as he is, are overwhelmingly forced to flee their families of origin, live in secret, move house often, change their names, etc., exactly as if they were escapees from something like the Mafia.

Here is what the Barnabas Fund prayer booklet for November/December 2009 has to say about Rifqa Bary: whose case was the prayer point set down for November 29th.

"Rifqa Bary (17) from a Sri Lankan Muslim background, lives in the USA and has become a Christian. After death threats from her father she fled the family home. Because she is a minor the authorities have to face the question of whether or not to return her to her parents.

"Some American commentators ridiculed her claims and could not believe that a father might hurt or kill his own child 'just' because she had changed her faith.

"Pray for a much better understanding amongst non-Muslims in the West of the Islamic law of apostasy, and the way it has conditioned the minds of zealous Muslims to view converts as traitors, so that they [western non-Muslims] will realise *the very real danger facing those who leave Islam* {my emphasis - dda}.

"Pray particularly for those who have power to decide Rifqa's future, that they will protect her from harm". END EXCERPT.

45ch seems to think Rifqa is in no danger.

The Barnabas Fund, founded and informed by Canon Dr Sookhdeo who is an apostate from Islam, disagrees with 45ch; they are convinced (as is Mr Spencer, and also many members of Former Muslims United) that Rifqa *is* in danger; or, certainly, that there is such a high probability of her being harmed, that she should NOT be sent back into a Muslim family and milieu.

I believe the Barnabas Fund, and Mr Spencer - and, for that matter, Rifqa herself.

I DON'T believe 45ch's bland and baseless assurances, nor his blind trust in the (demonstrably utterly clueless and ill-informed) Ohio and Florida law enforcement 'investigations'.

45ch says 'Rifqa is not in any danger'.

NONSENSE.

Wrong again, 45. The rebels are running the asylum. They are making the laws and establishing Sharia. But you already know that. Don't you.

Maybe you could sell it to the liberals in Congress.

Taqiyyah.

From an article in the Times Online, February 5 2005, which featured the stories of former Muslims in the UK.

Perhaps 45ch will tell us that the first example given, one Nissar Hussein, is a liar? And that the many Muslims who are routinely and regularly attacking Mr Hussein because of his apostasy, are not 'true' Muslims?



"THE first brick was thrown through the sitting room window at one in the morning, waking Nissar Hussein, his wife and five children with a terrifying start. The second brick went through his car window.

"It was a shock, but hardly a surprise. The week before, another brick had been thrown through the window as the family were preparing for bed in their Bradford home.

"The victim of a three-year campaign of religious hatred, Mr Hussein’s car has also been rammed and torched, and the steps to his home have been strewn with rubbish.

"He and his family have been regularly jostled, abused, attacked, shouted at to move out of the area, and given death threats in the street. His wife has been held hostage inside their home for two hours by a mob. His car, walls and windows have been daubed in graffiti: “Christian bastard”.

"The problem isn’t so much what Mr Hussein, whose parents came from Pakistan, believes, but what he doesn’t believe.

"Born into Islam, he converted eight years ago to Christianity, and his wife, also from Pakistan, followed suit.

"While those who convert to Islam, such as Cat Stevens, Jemima Khan, and the sons of the Frank Dobson, the former Health Secretary, and Lord Birt, the former BBC Director-General, can publicly celebrate their new religion, those whose faith goes in the other direction face persecution.

"Mr Hussein, a 39-year-old hospital nurse in Bradford, is one of a growing number of former Muslims in Britain who face

not just being shunned by family and community, but attacked, kidnapped, and in some cases killed.

*There is even a secret underground network to support and protect those who leave Islam* {my emphasis - dda}...

"Muslims who lose their faith face execution or imprisonment, in line with traditional Muslim teaching, in many Islamic countries, including Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Egypt and Yemen. In the Netherlands, the former Muslim MP Ayan Hirsi Ali had to go into hiding after renouncing her faith on television."

Perhaps 45ch will tell us that this lady, too, is a liar, and that he, 45ch, understands Islam better than she does?

"Yasmin, who was raised in the North of England, has been forced out of her town once, and is now trying to resist being chased out again.

"Brought up in a Muslim family, she converted after having a vision of Jesus when she gave birth to her youngest son, and was baptised in her thirties..

“My family completely disowned me. They thought I had committed the biggest sin — I was born a Muslim, and so I must die a Muslim. When my husband found out, he totally disowned my sons. *One friend tried to strangle me when I told him I was converting* ,” she said.

{Got that, everyone? she told a Muslim friend she was leaving Islam, and *he tried to strangle her*. Do friends normally do that to friends, in Western countries, if the friend announces s/he is embracing a new belief system? - dda}.
“We had bricks though our windows, I was spat at in the street because they thought I was dishonouring Islam.

'We had to call the police so many times. I had to go to court to get an injunction against my husband because he was inciting others to attack me.”

'She fled to another part of Britain, but the attacks soon started again as locals found out about her.

“I wasn’t going to leave again,” she said, adding that it was the double standards of her attackers that made her most angry. “They are such hypocrites — they want us to be tolerant of everything they want, but they are intolerant of everything about us.”

'Although some are beaten “black and blue” for their faith, others suffer even more.

'The family of an 18-year-old girl whom Yasmin was helping found that she had been hiding a Bible in her room, and visiting church secretly.

“I tried to do as much as possible to help her, but they took her to Pakistan ‘on holiday’. Three weeks later, she was drowned — they said that she went out in the middle of the night and slipped in the river, but she just wouldn ’t have done that,” said Yasmin."

END EXCERPTS.

That last case, of the Pakistani teenager, reminds me eerily of Rifqa Bary. That girl was 18; Rifqa is 17. Like Rifqa, she converted secretly, but then was 'found out'.

Her family took her from the UK to Pakistan and she had an 'accident'. How convenient.

If Rifqa Bary's family gets her back, I'd be prepared to bet that within the year - most likely after being taken back to Sri Lanka - she too has an 'accident'.

And 45ch wants us to think there's nothing to worry about.

I will leave the last word (from the same Anthony Browne Times Online article) to Ibn Warraq, apostate:

"The most high-profile British apostate is Ibn Warraq, a Pakistani-born intellectual and former teacher from London, who lost his faith after the Salman Rushdie affair and set out his reasons in the book Why I am not a Muslim.

'He recently edited the book Leaving Islam, but finds it hard to explain the hostility.

“It’s very strange.

Even the most liberal Muslim can become incredibly fierce if you criticise Islam, or, horror of horrors, leave it.” END QUOTE

In other words: the apparent moderation and 'liberality' of this or that Muslim can evaporate like spit on a hot pan, replaced with rage (sometimes murderous rage) if confronted with a case of actual or intended apostasy in a friend, a family member, or community member.

As for outright killings, I know of quite a few that have been reported here at jihadwatch in the past couple of years - an apostate girl in Saudi Arabia, a young woman in Jordan, at least half a dozen in Somalia: Muslim-background Christians hunted down, seized, and either shot or beheaded; and two Turkish Muslim-background Christians who were systematically tortured to death for the double crime of 1. leaving Islam and 2. promulgating their Christian faith in a Muslim country.

Nonie Darwish notes in her book on sharia that apostasy is one of the 'crimes' with regard to which ANY individual Muslim can appoint himself judge, jury and executioner; the existence of a Muslim state with the 'apostasy law' on the books, is not necessary; all that is necessary is that a Muslim perceive the crime and choose to carry out the punishment. All that's needed is one or two freelance self-appointed sharia enforcers, here and there, to terrorise whole communities into conformity...because you never know who's watching, you never know who will decide to bring down the scimitar.

I am quite, quite sure that within the Muslim population in the USA there would be those - perhaps quite a lot of people - who believe it would be Islamically correct, and their bounden duty, to kill Rifqa Bary at the first opportunity.

DDA,

Compared to the thousands of incidences of the torturous lynching of blacks in the US by right wing mobs, the actual killings of apostates is not very common and which are done by criminal muslims and not the state, just as the actual killing of blacks were done by criminal Americans and not the US govt.

There are many laws that are written in books, which are never carried out in practice, likewise, there are laws in the bible and the Koran that in reality are never carried out in real life by the state of Israel or muslim states.

Yes, people should not be persecuted or killed for leaving Islam but people make it sound like certain criminal muslims are the only ones prone to violence, which the facts do not support.

Observe, ladies and gentlemen, 45ch's absolute inability to discuss this subject without resorting to tu quoque; and his dogged insistence on obfuscating the reality that sharia prescribes the death of the apostate and that sharia-inspired attitudes do in fact suffuse Muslim communities.

He wants us to suppose that 'criminals' are the same in Islamic and non-Islamic societies.

He obscures the fact that what Islam defines as 'crime' and what we in the west define as 'crime' are not necessarily the same kinds of thing.

A non-Muslim who kills his or her child is a criminal. (It might be added, also, that people who have studied these things - Chesler and Walker - have observed that it is *very rare* in the Western world for a father to kill his teenage daughter, and likewise rare for a brother to kill his sister or a male cousin to kill his female cousin; whereas the reverse is the case, in the Islamic world - there, one of the commoner forms of murder is a father killing his teenage daughter, or else a girl being killed by her brother or male cousin).

A Muslim who kills his own child for whatever reason, incurs no punishment under sharia. Nonie Darwish - who grew up in a society in which all kinds of sharia-based practices were very much alive even if some of them weren't officially on the books - makes this very clear.

Islamic law also says that *anyone* who kills an apostate from Islam, incurs no penalty. This, as Darwish points out, encourages and *licenses* vigilante behaviour.

Whereas vigilante behaviour, in the modern west, would be classified as a crime, and punished.

So the act of murdering one's daughter because she has changed to a different religion or because she is perceived as 'uppity' is simply NOT A CRIME under Islamic law; there is no punishment laid down for it. It is a crime among non-Muslims; it is *not a crime* among Muslims.

And I repeat that sharia does not have to be officially 'on the books', in order to be in large part practised and enforced among any given lot of Muslims. They can't get away with stonings - though there was one case in France, that I recall - but 'disappearing' a recalcitrant teenage girl or young woman - or even assassinating her in broad daylight - has been happening rather a lot, among Muslims in the West, of late.

Ladies and gentlemen

every time anyone - as 45ch has just done - attempts to use the Tu Quoque sophism in here, let's just all remember this brilliant little posting, made a couple of days ago in this thread

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/11/six-honor-killings-in-the-us-in-two-years.html

by one 'Taylor Neal Grayson':

TaylorNealGrayson | November 30, 2009 4:41 AM | Reply

'The argument, "But other people do it," has absolutely no logic.

'Other people doing it does not negate the fact that THESE people do it.

'Other people doing it for *different* reasons does not cancel out the fact that THESE people do it for religious reasons.

'Other people doing it does not make THESE people doing it less wrong or less abhorrent.

'The old "other people do it" argument is simply a deflection of responsibility."

I will add that with each additional posting that 45ch makes in this thread he (or she?) has been digging a deeper and deeper hole for themselves.

For I am waiting for something to happen. (Intelligent non-Muslim readers of this ever-lengthening exchange should be able to work out for themselves, what that is).

So far that something has not happened.

The longer it continues to not happen, the more firmly I become convinced that 45ch is - despite all its dissembling - a Mohammedan who fully approves of and agrees with the sharia rule about what should be done with apostates, and who would be quite content for Rifqa Bary to be killed by her parents or by any other Muslim who chooses to do the deed.

The Mohammedtroll did it again...

Now, since 45ch is convinced that dar al Islam is a region of peace, perfect peace (unless, of course, the horrible Infidels interfere with it) and that sharia is perfect, and Muslims live in peace with one another and with their neighbours, and that everyone is so much nicer than in those horrible non-Muslim countries, I will cite some contrary data-points.

First up, testimony from Muslims who have become Christians, and the reasons they give for so doing.

First, from Algeria:

'"Dis" was from an Arab [Muslim] family, *taught from an early age to hate Christians and Americans* {nota bene - dda}.

"But when I learned about Jesus in the Qur'an," he explained, "I liked Him. I thought, If God gave me a choice, I would follow Jesus. He is not a man of war."

'The attraction grew as he listened to Christian radio. Then, one night, Dis had a vision of a heavenly being who informed him that Jesus was Lord.

'At that moment, his heart was transformed. Now he is full of love, not hate; dedicated to bringing reconciliation between Arabs and Kabyles."
(Christianity Today, January 2007)

So: while a Muslim this young man learned hate; after he believed in Jesus, he learned love and seeks to reconcile two warring ethnic groups.

Again, in Algeria, the extreme violence of sharia-pushing jihadis backfired on them:

http://www.meforum.org/article/104

"The Islamist campaign of violence in Algeria has turned some Muslims, especially Berbers, away from Islam and toward Christianity, reports the Algiers daily Al-Yawm in late December 2000, as reprinted in Courrier International, January 4-10, 2001, p. 29. The following extracts are translated from the French.

'In Kabylie, people of all ages are converting to Christianity..

'What is happening and what has happened in Algeria, *such as the massacres and killings in the name of Islam* {my emphasis -dda} has [sic] led many, when asked what the difference, in their view, was between Islam and Christianity, to declare: "Christianity is life, Islam is death."

Funny that they should think that, if Islam is more peaceful than Christianity.

And now, from the opposite end of the Mediterranean:

A Muslim Kurd in Turkey, translating the New Testament into Kurdish, discovered the following:
“*Christianity’s culture was different from that of Islam* {my emphasis - dda}

'Certain Bible teachings highlighted the differences strikingly. ‘It totally changed me to deal with how you are taught to forgive people, to love people and live with them in peace. The Bible says, ‘Love your enemies and your neighbours’ and ‘treat your neighbour as you would like to be treated’…From then on, ‘in my heart,’ he says, ‘I believed in Jesus’…

"He adds: ‘When I recognized the Bible, I learned to be flexible, to listen to people, to forgive them, and to be more patient. *For example, if you are among Muslims, you would always fight* {my emphasis - dda}. I don’t want to fight. I always wanted to convince people, to argue with them. … to understand them.” (Bible Society World Report 399/ 33, 10.2. 2006).

He found in the Bible a teaching that fulfilled the longing he already felt, for something other than the ‘always fight’ mentality of Islam.

I stress that this is an educated man, raised in Turkey, in a reasonably ‘middle class’ urban milieu, in a family that was not fanatically observant. So he must be describing the Turkish ‘moderate’ Islam he grew up with.

And he is still saying that the Biblical injunction to ‘do as you would be done by’ was a radically novel idea.

And he defines the 'default' Muslim mindset by contrast, thus: "if you are among Muslims, you would always fight". Doesn't sound very peaceful, to me.

Nonie Darwish confirms that same observation out of her own experience of 30 years inside an Islamic society, in overwhelmingly-Muslim Egypt: in her book on sharia, 'Cruel and Usual Punishment', she describes an all-pervasive and indeed suffocating atmosphere of suspicion, aggression, violence and UNforgiveness. A teenage maid who worked for Nonie's family when Nonie was young, had come to the Darwish home after being raped by her previous employer and then sacked by his wife; but one day she 'disappeared'. "We later learned her fate from the agent who had placed her in our home [as a maid, after the rape]. He never used the word 'killed' but he whispered that her father and brother 'took care of their honor'." *Nowhere* in the West in the 1950s would a girl raped by her employer, have been murdered by her own father and brothers; the person in danger would have been the rapist.

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, too, speaks of the default mode of suspicion and aggression that defined interpersonal relations in overwhelmingly-Muslim Somalia and the atmosphere of cruelty in Saudi Arabia, contrasting it with the 'kindness' that many people showed to one another in majority-Christian Ethiopia, and then the order and peace that prevailed in the Netherlands. Furthermore: Ayaan observed during her work as a translator that women and girls from Muslim families formed the vast majority of those seeking refuge in Dutch shelters for battered women.

Post scriptum.

45ch.

Are you resident in a non-Muslim country or in a Muslim country?

If you are resident in a non-Muslim country, and you are so convinced that sharia law is just peachy, and you are also convinced that the non-Muslim world is and always has been a complete sh*t-hole, then I suggest that you cancel your current citizenship and migrate ASAP to a full-sharia or high-sharia Muslim country.

Take yourself off to beautiful, wonderful, peaceful Saudi Arabia, the heartland and Holy Land of your favourite religion, Islam (after all, it *is* your favourite, isn't it, since you spend so much of your time singing its praises) where -so you were telling us in an earlier posting - all those be-burka'd girls look like little angels (except when they're being stoned to death on the lying say-so of a harridan with a grudge)

http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2009/11/24/why-is-america-still-allied-with-saudi-arabia/

or being murdered by daddy after he finds out about the secret conversion to Christianity

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/08/saudi-man-cuts-daughters-tongue-burns-her-to-death.html

Get thee to a sharia land; NOW.

Leave.

And good riddance.

Muslims are more 'family-oriented' sez 45ch.

Sure they are.

Lots and lots of them, especially in the oh-so-holy heartland of Islam, Saudi Arabia, marry their first cousins; and then the kids from *those* marriages marry *their* first cousins, and so on, and on, and on, generation after generation...

http://www.consang.net/index.php/Global_prevalence

With the wretched results that any experienced modern geneticist could predict.

Continual intense inbreeding is bad for any species. For the human species which already has a low level of genetic diversity, it is really, really bad news.

I recall seeing a newspaper report on the level of damaging recessive genetic disorders manifesting in the children of the ethnically Pakistani Muslim population in the UK. It is much higher than among the non-Muslim groups within the UK.