Is anyone in D.C. listening, or are they too busy playing politics and putting the supposed symbolism of the trial over the array of obvious security concerns? Louis Pepe Update, and an update on this story. "Blinded Prison Guard: Don't House Terror Suspects in NYC," by Joseph Abrams for Fox News, November 16 (thanks to Sam):
The high-security prison in New York City where 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is expected to be sent to await his trial has a supermax wing to keep even the most notorious criminals quiet -- but it isn't perfect. Just ask Louis Pepe.
Ten months before Al Qaeda in 2001 struck a deathblow in the heart lower Manhattan, one of the terrorist group's founding members plunged a sharpened comb through Pepe's left eye and into his brain, blinding the 42-year-old prison guard and causing severe brain injuries that plague him to this day.
Pepe told FoxNews.com he worries that sending Mohammed and four of his alleged fellow 9/11 conspirators to New York could compromise the safety of the guards at the MCC prison. Keeping the prisoners in one location, he said, was especially dangerous.
"Could you imagine over there what they're gonna do, God forbid?" asked Pepe, now 52, who lost feeling in the right side of his body and most of his ability to speak. "After all these years, you'd think they should know."
On Nov. 1, 2000, Pepe was ambushed in the cell of Mamdouh Mahmud Salim -- an alleged top aide to Usama bin Laden. Salim's cellmate, another Al Qaeda suspect, joined in the attack, which prosecutors say was an attempt to steal Pepe's keys to the cell block to free other prisoners and take hostages.
The two had been granted permission by a federal judge to purchase hot sauce, says Pepe's sister, which they then stored in a honey jar and used to create a blinding mace. Teaming up against Pepe, they beat and blinded him, covering the floor in his spattered blood. They then tried to rape him as he waited an entire hour for fellow guards to come to his aid, his sister said.
"They wanted to discredit the badge and what he stood for," Eileen Trotta told FoxNews.com. "After they plunged him in the eye with that makeshift knife, they did the sign of the cross on his chest."
Trotta said it would be like "deja vu" to see more Al Qaeda detainees shipped into New York for trial, where their court hearings will be just blocks from Ground Zero
"There's no reason why everything has to be in New York, especially after 9/11 and what happened to Louis," she said. "It doesn't make sense -- why bring them into the hotbed of the city?"...
Politics.
Now retired from law enforcement, I spent my fair share of time in Courts of Law as a police detective and later as an investigator for a public defender's office.
Someone's already posed the question about the possible composition of the jury. The Constitution guarantees a trial by a jury of one's peers. If there are no Muslims selected to serve on the jury, KSM will have an excellent post-trial appeal for reversal of a conviction. If Muslims are selected to serve, I suggest they will have a difficult time discarding their inculcated Muslim beliefs and vote to convict one of their own who followed the highest calling of every Muslim in waging jihad. I forsee a hung jury.
Either way, it's not a situation in which truth and justice will probably prevail.
This criminal trial was a very bad idea, and I cannot help but think there must be another motivation for the Obama Adiminstration to bring KSM to New York for prosecution in a civilian criminal Court. I'm just not smart enough to figure it out yet.
New York...New York...Why did the Mahoundian prisoner have a comb to begin with?...Court ordered hot sauce? Incredible...
Why was the guard in the cell alone?...And an hour before help arrived??? This is an example of why PC has to be kept out of lock-ups...Years ago I worked in maximum security units in California state hospitals...No one had shoes, belts, combs or bottles of hot sauce...
So that's supermax...Amazing...
And what will Obama do if there is an attack in NYC over this? And by ordering a criminal trial for this slime, is he HOPING that this guy will walk?
Is this just a total setup? If Muslims attack, will Obama surrender? Is that the plan?
"This criminal trial was a very bad idea, and I cannot help but think there must be another motivation for the Obama Adiminstration to bring KSM to New York for prosecution in a civilian criminal Court. I'm just not smart enough to figure it out yet." - InfidelatLarge
How about your idea that Muslims serving on the jury will probably not convict? Score for Islam and our Mohammedan president.
"And by ordering a criminal trial for this slime, is he HOPING that this guy will walk?"
Wow, that's just what I said, Spirit Wolf.
Here's to being on the same wavelenth, Darcy :)
Another question that pops to mind is this - in criminal trials, each count is usually tried separately, right? So if there are more than 3K counts, how long is this trial supposed to last?
That would give Al-Q plenty of time to do something :s
Eleven reasonable and very possible suggested reasons for not having this trial in NYC.
http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi?C=2215903
There may be a plan where terrorists will take hostages and then demand freedom for this scum.
Now retired from law enforcement, I spent my fair share of time in Courts of Law as a police detective and later as an investigator for a public defender's office.
Someone's already posed the question about the possible composition of the jury. The Constitution guarantees a trial by a jury of one's peers. If there are no Muslims selected to serve on the jury, KSM will have an excellent post-trial appeal for reversal of a conviction. If Muslims are selected to serve, I suggest they will have a difficult time discarding their inculcated Muslim beliefs and vote to convict one of their own who followed the highest calling of every Muslim in waging jihad. I forsee a hung jury.
Either way, it's not a situation in which truth and justice will probably prevail.
This criminal trial was a very bad idea, and I cannot help but think there must be another motivation for the Obama Adiminstration to bring KSM to New York for prosecution in a civilian criminal Court. I'm just not smart enough to figure it out yet.
No matter what...Holder and his men will implicate Bush and Cheney in some wrong doing...The circus will ensure world wide attention...Mohammad and his men will claim to be victims of torture...There will be calls for Bush/Cheney arrests...
Obama is perfectly happy to please his most far left anti-American advocates while happily sticking it in eye of American moderates and right of center opponents. I cannot believe this is good politics for any President.
If it is not good politics, what other motive could he have? Foreign money for his friends, perhaps? Getting even with Americans and helping our enemies? Helping Islamic friends? Getting even with the CIA. Getting back at Bush.
I can't think of any other reasons. If anyone believes this was the Attorney Generals decision exclusively, see me, I have a bridge to sell.
This morning, "Fox and Friends" had a long interview with the injured guard's sister. Powerful!
But will the msm go after this story? Hell, no!
What game is the BHO administration playing by bringing KSM to NYC for trial? Trying to prove that Mosles aren't a threat and that his reaching out to the Moslem world is the right strategy? Provided there's no trouble centered around KSM, of course.
BHO does nothing that doesn't build up his image. I think that his image-building is at the root of this upcoming public trial.
"Here's to being on the same wavelenth, Darcy :)"
Yes, Spirit Wolf, just wish we were on the same wavelength discussing gardening or poetry or Thanksgiving plans which would mean we weren't concerned about the Global Jihad and Islamic Supremacism because it wouldn't exist.
You know, how life was prior to September 11, 2001, and the West's subsequent submission to the Mohammedans, which has empowered and emboldened them?
Wow, remember those halcyon days, years, decades, when Muslims/Islam didn't figure one iota in your life?
I am reminded at how so many on the left vehemently blamed Bush for 9-11 after less than 8 months into his Presidency. Never mind there was the "Jamie Gorlich Wall" between law enforcement agencies, never mind there was no Patriot Act,never mind that FBI was half the size that it is today, and of course never mind that liberal left has done everything possible to undermine the safeguards of the Patriot Act over the past 8 years.
And yet one Major Nidal Nasan went around as Mark Steyn pointed out with a neon sign on his head warning: " I'm a jihadist stand clear" ,but with all the intelligence, with all the security apparatus supposedly in place, the one thing that was not changed that should have been possibly the greatest security concern. was a warped and perverted attitude called "political correctness"-- but how does one legislate against foolish stupidity?
This may be hard to digest, but polls show that a full 20% of our population (Obama voters all) hate America. Obama gets off advocating for these nuts and what better advocate than to give KSM his best chance to go free while harassing all the victims and those affected by 9/11.
Oh no! yet another media article about Muslims being bad boys, when will it end? It might end when 'Islamophobia' becomes 'Pariahphobia' for that' where this is heading rapidly.
Let's import more of them to assist in their quest for pariahood.
Indeed. Actually, Islam came on my radar screen in 1998, when my Pakistani landlords decided they wanted higher rent, but rents could only be raised, at the time, in between tenants. It's a bit of a long story, but the bottom line is, I was terrorized out of my home town over this (and there had been things said in a heated exchange that indicated the Islamic opinion on young single women. I got my revenge though, and so I don't go back there any more (it involves Mo cartoons. You know how much they love cartoons of Mohammed.)
The experience still rattles me, 11 years on. Then came 9/11. Then London, Madrid, and "cartoon crisis". Oh, and then there was the honour killing of that young girl in Toronto who wouldn't wear the hijab - and CITY TV responded by asking whether or not Canadians are prejudiced against the hijab (implying it's our fault this girl wanted to be like us, with hair free, so it's our fault she was killed for not wanting to wear it.)
But I wasn't able to do much research on the matter until last year, when I shed 140 lbs of fathead. I found this place, and Mr Spencer's writings made everything make sense, where it didn't quite before,
And yeah, I go to other chat sites to talk about movies, and books, and swap jokes and such ... and when the subject comes up, I try to pass on info that I learned here. And yeah, there has been some resistance to it, but some may be coming around to see.
Teaming up against Pepe, they beat and blinded him, covering the floor in his spattered blood. They then tried to rape him
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Of course they did—it's standard Jihaist operating procedure to humiliate their victims.
Infidel at Large wrote:
This criminal trial was a very bad idea, and I cannot help but think there must be another motivation for the Obama Adiminstration to bring KSM to New York for prosecution in a civilian criminal Court. I'm just not smart enough to figure it out yet.
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I think we'll find that it is not Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who is on trial here—but rather the policies of the Bush administration.
In addition, leftists are already wringing their hands over the idea that KSM cannot receive a fair trial in NYC. One of the major news outlets (CNN?) did "man on the street" interviews with New Yorkers, and many of them fretted over finding KSM and impartial jury in the city.
Likely, too, the trial will give KSM a big platform for Da'wa.
Here' a good article from Pajamas Media:
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/khalid-sheikh-mohammed-trial-will-be-a-three-ring-circus/
Why would ANYBODY be worried about this guy having a "fair trial"? Oh, waa, there won't be anyone impartial in NYC. Well, gee whiz.
This is going to be an awful farce. It makes me almost miss having a television.
Why try them at all? Even if you convict them, they are "martyrs" in the service of Islam. The Israelis don't execute terrorists, they just lock them up and throw away the key. Rotting in prison is nowhere as exciting as dying for Allah.
Yeah, what tanstaafl said. And, it's OT but you remind me that I need to somehow renew my support for Israel. Maybe we as a nation could stand some of that, as well...
Raped? Isn't that against Sharia? See, those aren't real Muslims - they're misunderstanders of the R.O.P.
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Speaking of rape.. I think I figured out why cult leader moHAMed [pig guts be upon him] disliked pigs so much. Unlike camels, goats and donkeys, the feisty lil porkers successfully refused his amorous advances!
:-)
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I wonder what the likelihood is that non-Muslim prisoners will get to these Muslim goons first and harm or kill them. I'm certain security will be as high as possible (or will it?) but prisoners doing in other prisoners is certainly a common event. Just a thought.
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This is what LIEberals think a STIMULUS is: putting 100s of jihadists in an Illinois jail to "craete jobs". I actually heard some LIEb polotician say this in all earnestness!
And the jihadist traffic at O'Hare will surely "benefit" the airlines too!
LOL
Same for New York!
Think of all the Law firms getting employed here! The leftist Cindy sheehan types and anti-American NGOs looking for the spotlight! They'll all need food and lodging!
What a replacement contingent for your regular tourists!
Think of all the jobs in security too! Synagogues and shuls will need more security, as will Churches and kindergartens and all kinds of other schools..
What a Bonanza for New York and Illinois!
//sarc off
Shows what libs know about basic economics though.
Scary.. almost as scary as their ignorance about terrorists.
I gotta move outta here, this place is INSANE. I don't want to be among those who will pay the price for the actions of these LIEberal FOOLS.
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"This may be hard to digest, but polls show that a full 20% of our population (Obama voters all) hate America."
Only 20%? I'd wager more than 20% of Americans supported Obama -- more like at least 50%. But that doesn't mean at least 50% of Americans hate America, at least not in equal degrees.
We can say that there are two types American anti-Americanism (a subcategory of Western anti-Westernism):
1) the more virulent Leftist type
2) the more pleasantly diluted self-hate of "Leftism Lite" -- i.e., PC MC, Leftism decaf, softened with added cream and sugar.
#1 represents a small minority in America (though perhaps a larger minority in certain European countries, and Canada). It ranges from full-blown revolutionary fervor to a more hypocritical parasitism upon the same America it otherwise condemns (the former represented by actual terrorists, such as the Weather Underground, the latter by university professors such as Ward Churchill or Noam Chomsky -- both types enthusiastic supporters of Obama's election).
#2 represents a much broader population that includes wishy-washy Leftish, Centrists, and most Conservatives: pretty much the majority, if not the vast majority of Americans. This type ranges from a relatively intelligently informed (or, rather, deformed) self-criticism of all the evils that America has done in the past, extending into the present insofar as "the Civil Rights struggle continues today and thus isn't it grand we finally belatedly elected a black President? It's about time!" etc., all the way to a more pleasantly suburban, relatively mindless acceptance of the given that America is deeply flawed and will remain so unless we continue to strengthen and increase PC MC, all as pleasantly swallowed and assimilated in the contented bourgeois stomach of the person as the double decaf mocchaccino they drank while at the shopping mall at 2:00 in the afternoon on a weekday because they have somehow managed to make a comfortable living with two or three family cars and a nice home even though they don't work 9 to 5.
While it is obvious that the #1 type will defend Muslims and attack anyone who criticizes Islam, it is the #2 type who are causing all the trouble: they by their numbers in the majority and by their sociopolitical influence as a diverse population comprising centrists and conservatives as well as liberals and assorted motley apolitical types are massively enabling the PC MC climate to perdure, in symbiosis with the "Elites", thus causing America, and the West, to maintain its irrationality in the face of the global revival of deadly Islam.
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I don't really care about that. Only a dead terrorist can't EVER get out when LIEberals get soft or hostages are taken.
I WANT THEM ALL DEAD.
Period.
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What!Al qaeda attempting buggery!
Trying them in a civil court may be a huge error on Obama's part. But if they are to be tried in a civil court, it's fitting they be brought back to us in New York to deal with.
But surely the defending attorneys will argue the impossibility of a fair trial in NY?
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Then he'll need to be shaved as well so that he can't fashion a rope from strands of his scraggly hair.
Will never happen. New York is WAY TOO LIEBERAL !!
Remember the hot sauce by court order!
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If KSM and his military allies are tried in civilian court in NYC, he will be able to name and then sue his CIA "torturers" while in prison just as you or I would be able to do if we were tortured by the local gestapo. Obama has gone on record saying that they were tortured and that it was in violation of the law. A mistrial is almost certain.
Our fighters should kill all terrorists. Take no prisoners. There is an idiot President and liberal idiots all around him here in the USA.
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Yup. Expect "live captures" on the battlefield to diminish greatly due to this evil idiocy!
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I believe obama's motive is very simple and consistent with every action and word he has ever spoken.
It is to draw attention away from what is fundamentally responsible for all the recent assaults of islamists on innocent Americans and the world, islam.
He is selling (effectively) the notion that it is only a small group of misguided muslims who are dangerous.
When it is the doctrinal precepts of the quoran to which all muslims adhere to that will continue to demand the killing of non mulsims around the world.
islam kills.
Hesperado, I truly do not know any "conservatives" who defend islam or hate America because of the mistakes and inequities of our ancestors, and they certainly don't feel guilty for them. All of the conservatives I know love America and are proud to say so. They are not politically correct, moral relativists and they espouse their personal beliefs while respecting the beliefs of others. They are honest, patriotic, hard-working people who believe in self-reliance, personal responsibility, equality, charity, and freedom.
I have yet to meet a self-hating, multicultural, diversity-obsessed conservative who endlessly laments the injustices inflicted on American Indians by the colonists or the shameful years of segregation and prejudice against blacks. They are not proud of these eras in our history but they don't feel responsible for them, nor should they. They believe it is everyone's responsibility to ensure that past injustices are never repeated but do not wallow in guilt for crimes they did not commit. They believe the good in AMerica far outweighs the bad.
I remember doing a research paper in college on the Cherokee Indians and what I learned was so sad that I cried every night while I worked on it. Oddly enough, I learned NOTHING about the Trail of Tears during twelve years of school. I was shocked, outraged, and saddened at the horrible ordeal and abject cruelty inflicted on these poor people but I never hated myself for what others did to them. I am truly sorry that slavery existed in America followed by many years of inequality, prejudice, and racism. It was wrong; we have acknowledged that it was wrong, and we have tried to fix it. Liberals who are obsessed with the past, hate their own civilization, and worship mulitculturalism and diversity are lost souls in search of purpose, meaning, or morality. But when one believes everything is equal, one believes in nothing.
I don't know where these "conservatives" that you refer to are but I can tell you they're not around here! In today's crazy, politically correct world, conservatives often have to keep their opinions to themselves to avoid problems at work for not being a docile conformist. Every conservative I know detests multiculturalism and considers it divisive and insidious.
Okay. Gee thanks for putting a scare through my bones. I am never shopping at the muzzie store again.
they missed a significant opportunity after killing the D.C. sniper. In the latter part of the 19th Century the Brits were having a jihad problem in what is now Pakistan. They cured the problem by every time a jihadist was killed they buried the body wrapped in pig skin. If one is wrapped in pig skin Paradise is not possible and the mohammaden is deprived not only his vigins but also his young boy toys.
another motivation for the Obama Adiminstration to bring KSM to New York for prosecution in a civilian criminal Court.
INFIDELATLARGE, I think the motivation is this; Eric Holder, lobbied by CAIR and the ACLU, feels that, if KSM and his cronies are tried in civil court, that rules out military the validity of testimonies. I could be wrong but I think if one researched enugh you would find that military cases cannot be tried in civil courts just as civil cases cannot be tried in military courts.
"The American Civil Liberties Union has been working through the Project, a joint effort with the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers (NACDL), to provide legal assistance to the five individuals accused of masterminding the 9/11 attacks and other military commissions defendants. The Guantánamo military commissions proceedings have been plagued from the start with legal challenges and international condemnation due to their disregard for basic due process rights".
It goes on: “The transfer of cases to federal court is a huge victory for restoring due process and the rule of law, as well as repairing America’s international standing, an essential part of ensuring our national security. We can now finally achieve the real and reliable justice that Americans deserve. It would have been an enormous blow to American values if we had tried these defendants in a process riddled with legal problems,” said Anthony D. Romero, Executive Director of the ACLU. “However, it’s disappointing that the administration has chosen to prosecute some Guantánamo detainees in the unsalvageable military commissions system. Time and again the federal courts have proven themselves capable of handling terrorism cases while protecting both American values and sensitive national security information. Justice can only be served in our tried and true courts.”
Read the whole sory thing here: http://www.aclu.org/national-security/911-defendants-be-tried-federal-court
I'm sure the al-Qaida defendants will hire some smart Jewish attys. and get off like O.J., then be playing golf in Florida :) Why aren't they being tried in a Nuremberg War Crimes type tribunal under military guard? Duh, Obama wants them to get off and this is the best way to do it?
http://go.to/islamhistory
What a brilliant judicial decision, hot sauce for hot heads.
Why the 9/11 Five and other terrorist detainees should be tried in Military Tribunal and why the ACLU and CAIR will argue that these were the acts of a few "losers" and not a legitimate "declaration of war" attack by the Nation of Islam.
Crime against peace
A crime against peace, in international law, refers to "planning, preparation, initiation, or waging of wars of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the foregoing" [1]. This definition of crimes against peace was first incorporated into the Nuremberg Principles and later included in the United Nations Charter. This definition would play a part in defining aggression as a crime against peace.
An important exception to the foregoing are defensive military actions taken under Article 51 of the UN Charter. Such defensive actions are subject to immediate Security Council review, but do not require UN permission to be legal within international law. "Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations." (UN Charter, Article 51) The Security Council will determine if the action is legally the "right of individual or collective self-defence", or it may appoint another UN organ to do this.
In 1950, the Nuremberg Tribunal defined Crimes against Peace (in Principle VI.a, submitted to the United Nations General Assembly) as
(i) Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances; (ii) Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i).
To me, the attack on September 11th on the US, by al Qaida, was a declaration of war by the "Nation of Islam".
That could be argued and will be dragged through the court by the defendants but it has been proven time and again that Islam is waging war against the west by "Third Jihad" forces.
Why else would they want this trial to take place in a civil court and not a court like Nuremburg?
Hesperado--
More and more Americans are waking through the study of the Constitution. From what I see 'on the ground' in small town America, I have to agree with SusanP. I haven't seen large groups of America-hating conservatives but rather once-slumbering constitutionalists finding their voice and commonalities in organizations like asamom, oath keepers, 912 projects, c4l, etc... These small groups are beginning to coalesce as evidenced by the 912 PCMC MSM-ingnored gathering in Washington, the townhall outcries from around the nation, and one-time political dufuses (dufi) educating themselves because their 2:00-mall-shopping experiences are being threatened. I don't know if the wakeup call is too late, but it is happening--kind of like the Ents.
Rhetorical, no doubt.
That said, I always end up wondering exactly who it is that the tap-dancers and weasels in DC think they are impressing with their antics.
Clearly they can't believe that what they are doing makes any sort of sense. (Not in any meaningful sense of the word believe.) It's got to be an act to impress somebody, but who?
Do they walk around with an imaginary audience in their head?
The people who want us dead see their idiocies as practical opportunities, but nothing more.
The people who love America and western civ, and want to protect them see their idiocies as, well ... idiocies.
I can't imagine that anybody else cares much one way or another. Not really. Not sincerely.
The only things that I can come up with are either:
1) They are cynically lying and actively trying to help the enemy. Or,
2) It's some sort of weird pseudo-religious enthusiasm and their machinations serve some sort of ritual purpose. Perhaps expiatory or perhaps to satisfy some pseudo-moral requirement of some mystical power.
In any case there is nobody out there who cares about western civ, believes in reality and approves of what they are doing. Those three cannot coexist in the same mind.
I suppose there are some other alternatives, but they border on the insane.
I suppose they can be committed to the idea that they know some secret about the real world that has never been acted on before. So the precedents of history and normal practical considerations are irrelevant, all being overridden by the great secret that they know, which presumably will be revealed as the result of their actions.
They might also be committed to a moral standard by which the suffering, weakening and even destruction of western civ is a good thing. This is of course treasonous and pretty nearly the same thing as being committed to the success of the enemy. Although I suppose there is a subtle distinction, this being primarily a negative attitude toward western civ as opposed to a positive commitment toward the enemy as such.
Then there is the nonsense that they keep promoting, that treating the jihaddis as common criminals will reduce their prestige back home. But this presumes that the folks back home will be influenced by our opinion to reconsider their view of the jihaddis, which, as RS has pointed out many times is obvious nonsense on its face.
But it does bring us back around to the imaginary audience.
Life in a hall of mirrors, where the approving crowd is just the self-multiplying array of self reflections, meaningless and isolated.
Spirit Wolf, your description of your experience with landlords rang a bell with me. I too had a similar experience with a greedy new landlord who wanted $200 more per month. While other tenants in the building gave in to this demand, I chose to fight it with the rental board. (In Quebec we have a very good rental board and this was clearly against the law.) My landlord made my life a living hell by turning off the water, heat and cutting the telephone line, among other things. (The list is too long to go into.) As stressful as this was, it only made me more determined to fight it. By the way, I won at the rental board and the landlord had to pay! A small victory but immensely satisfying! I have another friend, a divorced mother of a young son who is being sued at the rental board for $26,000 two years after she moved out by a woman-hating Muslim who has apparently made her his jihad. What for, you ask? He claims for insulting him and embarrassing him in front of his friends. The case is next week and I am testifying in her favour.
When I try to discuss Islam I find such resistance to the idea that Islam is NOT a peaceful religion. They have bought into the mainstream media line that Islam has been "hijacked" by "radicals". Because the idea of jihad as mandated by Islam is SO EVIL, people just cannot get their minds around it because the whole thing sounds so illogical and unbelievable. I will persist in trying!