In a photo on the steaming pile of holiday cheer that he served up last year over at the Human Rights Tribune, but which just came to my attention tonight, CAIR's Honest Ibe Hooper is looking suspiciously like...I did six years ago.
Lookin' sharp, Ibe!
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ROFL!
All right, who made the evil clone? Fess up!
Mr Spencer, I'd be very careful about what I do with toenail clippings and shedded hair from your brush from now on. :P
Now THAT'S taking "brotherhood between the religions" to a WHOLE new level.
/sarc off
In just a short passage: SO many lies.
This is the only instance to my knowledge of Hooper presenting an honest face to the public.
Muslims appropriate everything: science, algebra, zero, even Spencer.
Who's surprised?
On "Planet Irf", the website of Yusuf Irfan, Maimonides, preeminent medieval Jewish philosopher and one of the greatest Torah scholars of the Middle Ages, becomes "Shaykh Musa bin Maymoun al-Qurtubi"-
We are all born Muslim, why should Robert Spencer escape this irrefutable logic, this complete explanation of the universe?
You have arrived, Robert. Time to submit!
Ibrahim, you've never looked better! Next time, make sure to mention that Jesus is the son of God! You'd have us think he's just one of a bunch of prophets! Can't have that...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spit_take
This is the perfect opportunity to convert back to Christianity and renounce islam! Tell the world that islam is evil, imperialistic, totalitarian, etc. You might even get Hooper fired from his job!
Who would have thought Hooper and Spencer one and the same.
I feel so let down!
That is hilarious!
But on a serious note, I cannot stand when Muslims as well as Christins spout off this nonsense. The Koran repeatedly denies that Jesus is God come in the flesh, which is the main foundation of Christianity! That is blasphemy. So save that nonsense about Islam and Christianity both revering Jesus!
Quite an improvement on the original Ibe. Amazing what plastic surgery can do these days.
I'd be careful if I were you, Robert; he's capable of having his henchmen waylay just before a speaking engagement, and appearing in your place. Who knows what kind of nonsense he might spout?
After examining the photo properties, it appears whoever posted that photo knew who Spencer is . . .photo properties =
http://www.humanrights-geneva.info/local/cache-vignettes/L200xH211/spencer-2-3ea90.gif
Isn't he the same man who decried of Christian Missionaries aiding the Indonesians a few years ago from Tsunami? He also whined about Chick tracts (Who is allah?) placed on car windows at a mosque in Seattle...
Jesus is no messenger! He is God manifested in the flesh!
I am highly insulted and enraged that this no-account ignoramus, not knowing the first think about Christian is in fact demoting the Lord! He assumes way to much and it makes him an ass for it.
Like an earlier post said, they steal and take credit for every virtue. As well as justifing their evil as good because there wanna-be-god seems to think he can have it both ways.
Exd 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exd 20:3 انت سوف يكون هناك آلهة أخرى أمامي.
PS, Is the image heavily Photoshoped? LOL
"Exd 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exd 20:3 انت سوف يكون هناك آلهة أخرى أمامي."
This one was actually quite funny. The Arabic, probably translated using "google translate", means "you, there will soon be other gods in front of me". The real "ignoramuses" are you folk on this blog evaluating and passing judgments on Muslims and Islam when you don't even know something so basic as Arabic. The actual Arabic translation to the verse: لا يكن لك آلهة أخرى سواي
Robert Spencer at a recent Rifqa Bary press conference quoted a paraphrase by ibn Abbas of a Prophetic statement, saying "man baddala dinahu faqtuhulu", whereas it is in fact "faqtuluhu" (hence not only was his pronunciation incorrect, which he admitted at the conference, but his quotation too). It's not the end of the world if you don't know Arabic as there are many respected scholars who have translated many Arabic works, but to claim scholarship in Islam without a basic understanding of Arabic, is comical. And those who rely on such scholarship for information on Islam is a greater fool.
Ibe looks good only in his dreams and he cannot write best selling books...
Um, sorry. I've seen Ibe hooper and he is not that handsome.
Keep dreaming, Ibby.
This is surely no accident. A prankster -- at CAIR, or the Human Rights Tribune, or somewhere in between -- is having fun at Hooper's expense.
So you're saying any Muslim who can't understand Arabic gets it wrong too? I guess that would include the non-Arabic-speaking "moderates" who assure us there is nothing to fear in the Koran?
How about Arabic speakers like bin Laden, the al-Sauds, and others, who apply the Sharia and wish to see it implemented in the West? How do you explain them?
Muslims who claim to be scholars in Islam should know Arabic, yes. Not common Muslims.
Muslim scholars (ulama) who preach peaceful relations with non-Muslims know Arabic very well - in America, e.g. Zaid Shakir, Hamza Yusuf, Ingrid Mattson; in the Arabic world Ramadan Buti, Wahba Zuhayli, Mustafa Sibai, Sayyid Sabiq, Abd al-Wahhab Khallaf and others; in India the renowned Abu l-Hasan Ali Nadwi, Wahiduddin Khan and others. But this site doesn't see fit to engage with them. To see quotes from mostly Arab scholars of modern time see: http://allahisalmighty.blogspot.com/2009/10/violence-in-judaism-christianity-and.html (under the section "classical and modern views of jihad")
Common Muslims should follow what the ulama say. Unfortunately people like bin Laden, Zawahiri, Zarqawi, and others are engineers and doctors (i.e. secular trained) and not trained ulama and do not respect the authority of the ulama. For this reason even the Saudi ulama like Salman Al-Ouda, Bin Baz, Ibn Uthaymin, Salih al-Fawzan have condemned bin Laden's jihadism which deliberately targets civilians and advocates suicide, which the Saudi ulama (extreme though they may be) do not allow.
I'm perturbed, .. in the original article , the CGNews, Spencer's ugly ,evil "fraternal "twin brother is in the photo.
A switch-a-roo?
http://www.commongroundnews.org/article.php?id=24567&lan=en&sid=1&sp=0
Ah, truth will out. So, Robert, you've been moonlighting, double-dipping, playing both sides against the middle. No doubt that's what paid for the 25-room mansion with crescent-shaped pool and the stable of expensive sports cars you've been spotted driving around town.
Muzammmil ...
Your tortured logic aside, Bin Laden and others are no 'misunderstanders' of Islam. Their actions, justifications, and philosophy is quite aligned with Islamic texts and their contemporaries in Islamic jurisprudence.
Points for effort ... but tap-dancing isn't what is needed from Islamic apologists ...
muzammmill, I don't know if Mr. Spencer is a fluent Arabic speaker but he is very familiar with the language. Native English speakers make grammatical mistakes, mispronounce words, get tongue-twisted, and make a variety of other syntax flubs. I'm sure native Arabic speakers have the same problem. These common mistakes don't mean a speaker is ignorant, stupid, or misinformed.
What's a "common" muslim? Are they the people who aren't permitted to think for themselves or ask too many questions? Which of the ulama do you believe? There are some very respected scholars in Saudi Arabia and Egypt who agree that muslims are the rightful rulers of the world; non-muslims are filth; and militant jihad is a religious obligation for all able-bodied muslims. Those are just three of hundreds of utterly disgusting "beliefs" these pious scholars espouse, but I won't bore you with a long list of horrors that you already know and love.
I have no doubt whatsoever that Mr. Spencer is as knowledgable about islam as any muslim islamic scholar. Islam is not a complicated religion and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. It is a screed of pure hate, perverted sex, barbaric violence, misogyny, and idol worship with mandates to sustain and expand the umma for the purpose of survival, not brotherly love. In fact, love and peace do not exist in the "religion" of islam. And guess what? I learned that from the ulama long before I ever heard of Robert Spencer.
"I don't know if Mr. Spencer is a fluent Arabic speaker but he is very familiar with the language"
Any proof for that? Spencer's was not a "common mistake", it was the error somebody who doesn't have first-hand experience of the language makes, i.e. beginners. Ask him if he has any knowledge of Arabic morphology (sarf), syntax (nahw), rhetoric (balagha), and what books if any he has read in Arabic.
"What's a "common" muslim? Are they the people who aren't permitted to think for themselves or ask too many questions?"
No it's those who aren't ulama and thus do not have the requisite knowledge of Islamic scripture which permits them to pronounce universal verdicts and statements. A "common" Christian would be those who haven't studied Greek or haven't been ordained.
"Which of the ulama do you believe?"
I listed about a dozen in the above post, but as usual since these ulama do not fit the prejudiced worldview of anti-Islam bigots, they are simply ignored.
"There are some very respected scholars in Saudi Arabia and Egypt who agree that muslims are the rightful rulers of the world; non-muslims are filth; and militant jihad is a religious obligation for all able-bodied muslims"
Apocolyptic southern baptists and many evangelical Christians believe Christianity under Christ will rule the world. Paul in 2 Corinthians 6 declared the unbelievers "unclean" and "wicked". Rwandan priests, clergymen, and nuns were actively involved in the 1994 genocide which they helped create and preached murder from the church pulpits. In Ireland a recent report has found that for the last thirty years four archbishops have helped dozens of clergymen sexually abuse children, all with their permission and the knowledge of the state (hence a tacit approval). Anyone can be selective in this way in order to demonise a religion that represents a world civilisation like Chiristianity or Islam. But is it accurate? No.
Saudis and Egyptians do not say non-Muslims are filth; according to a verse of the Qur'an (9:28) the mushrikun (polytheists) are declared "unclean", and only Shiites have understood this to refer to all unbelievers - for the Egyptians and Saudis this does not include Jews and Christians. Hence unlike Paul (in 2 Cor 6) they do not declare all unbelievers unclean. Militant jihad is an obligation if one's own land is attacked. Muslims have been responding to colonialism for centuries, and now they are responding to e.g. the onslaught of Russia in Chechnya; of America/Birtain in Iraq, Afghanistan; of India in Kashmir; of Israel in Palestine; of the Serbs when they were in Bosnia etc. I see no moral problems with defending one's homeland (the means that al-Qaeda terrorists use to achieve this however have serious moral objections and no recognised Islamic alim accepts them).
"I have no doubt whatsoever that Mr. Spencer is as knowledgable about islam as any muslim islamic scholar. Islam is not a complicated religion and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. It is a screed of pure hate, perverted sex, barbaric violence, misogyny, and idol worship with mandates to sustain and expand the umma for the purpose of survival, not brotherly love. In fact, love and peace do not exist in the "religion" of islam"
These are some of the refrains of the anti-Islam crowd. You can continue repeating lies and misjudgments but it doesn't stop you from being a fool (or a knave).
"As forces of hate in this country and worldwide try to pull Muslims and Christians apart, we are in desperate need of a unifying force that can bridge the widening gap of interfaith misunderstanding and mistrust. That force could be the message of love, peace and forgiveness taught by Jesus and accepted by followers of both faiths"
This man is a hypocrite and a liar. It is not christians who lack love it is muslims. It is not christians who are suicide bombers it is Muslims. It is not christians who persecute muslims its vice-versa. Also to demote Jesus to being a secondary prophet (and a badly misguided one at that) is the hieght of cheek. These muslims have a very bad inferiority complex. What they can't steal from the christian and jewish religious traditions they denigrate.
PS; I just saw that one third of Americans don't want muslims in the armed forces. I wonder why ?
" I just saw that one third of Americans don't want muslims in the armed forces. I wonder why ?"
Simple. Because the other two thirds are badly misinformed.
If they knew, there wouldn't be any muslims near our armed forces, period.
A "common Muslim" are you a common Muslim. ? In Christianity we don't do "common Christianity" and the bible is open to all. True, we have in certain denominations rules that are interpreted from the Bible. However unlike in the Muslim coda we are free to disagree and question those pronouncements without the fear of being killed or otherwise threatened for our disagreement.Or is what you are saying is "most muslims blindly follow the lead of those who can read Arabic". If that is the case this concentrates immense power in the hands of a few and disempowers the majority of Muslims. Where is the democracy,justice, peace and love in that ? Or is what you are saying is that all English, Chinese, French, German etc versions of the Koran are innacurate ? If so then most Muslims are being conned as these universal truths cannot be translated from the Arabic. You seem like an educated "common" Muslim. Can you read Arabic ? Can you pronounce "universal truths". If you cannot read Arabic then; have you been conned ?
Ibn Warraq on how to debate a Muslim:
The heroic and piercingly insightful ex-Muslim Ibn Warraq recently gave a talk consisting of a series of responses to some of the common assertions made by Islamic apologists. I am quite grateful that he has made his notes available for publication here. This is a refreshing and enlightening antidote to the usual dhimmitude we get from non-Muslim academics who engage Islam.
1. Do you know Aramaic or Hebrew?Muslims in general have a tendency to disarm any criticisms of Islam and in particular the Koran by asking if the critic has read the Koran in the original Arabic, as though all the difficulties of their Sacred Text will somehow disappear once the reader has mastered the holy language and has direct experience, aural and visual, of the very words of God, to which no translation can do justice.
However, the majority of Muslims are not Arabs or Arabic speaking peoples. The non-Arabic speaking nations of Indonesia with a population of 197 million, Pakistan with 133 million, Iran with 62 million, Turkey with 62 million, India with a Muslim population of about 95 million, out- number by far the total number of native Arabic speakers in about thirty countries in the world estimated as 150 million. Many educated Muslims whose native tongue is not Arabic do learn it in order to read the Koran, but then again the vast majority do not understand Arabic, even though many do learn parts of the Koran by heart without understanding a word.
My own take is if the translations are not valid, the whole damn thing is invalid.
Take your smoke and mirrors and shove it!
"Saudis and Egyptians do not say non-Muslims are filth"
Oh ye who believe! the non-Muslims are unclean. (Repentance:17)
This the justification for why non-Muslims are subject to arrest if they are caught near Mecca and Medina.
“A non-Muslim should not handle the sacred text, but may listen to tapes of the Qur'an or handle a translation or exegesis.”
http://islam.about.com/od/quran/f/mushaf.htm
"(Kaffir) is the worst word ever written, a sign of infidelity, disbelief, filth, a sign of dirt," Sheikh Feiz says.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=94224
"Even their underwear is colored and not white, so it can conceal all that filth. We are a nation that has long known the meaning of cleanliness, what to do when nature calls, and what the rules of hygiene are." - Saudi Cleric Muhammad Al-Munajid
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/08/saudi-cleric-allah-wants-islam-to-rule-the-world.html
Hooper never looked better...
Spoken Arabic has no magickal powers...
If Arabic is required to 'understand' Islam, then millions of Mahoundians don't get it...No wonder so many misunderstand..Not only that, but all Qurans, in any language other than Arabic, are a fraud...Even the ones passed out by CAIR etc...All Qurans in English should be confiscated by Arabic speaking pious Mahoundians, and burned as being Satan infected...
Yes indeed...Only the heavily Allahized 'Arabic reader/reciter' can 'understand' Islam...And look what they do with that knowledge...I think it was Isa who said...'a bad tree can't produce good fruit'...He was describing Islam...
If Arabic is untranslatable, how do Arabs learn to speak other languages?
The Doctrine of Satan readily translates into any language and it translates as hate and hopelessness.
I thought that was what I was alluding too ?
"There are some very respected scholars in Saudi Arabia and Egypt who agree that muslims are the rightful rulers of the world; non-muslims are filth; and militant jihad is a religious obligation for all able-bodied muslims"
Sorry I hit the send button by accident. To continue. So Muza do you agree with the above statement or not ? Don't hide behind the words of others or play games. A plain yes or no would be appreciated. Or are you consulting the Koran in its original language at the moment ? Perhaps the Universal Truth is contained there that will enable you to answer my questions ? If not then obviously you will have to swiftly have a look at the surahs and the hadiths. But my friend which one abrogates the other one and does it make sense to those kuffars who are filth and need to be subjugated so that they can bow down to your entity and take thier place as inferior beings to the all knowing diciples of the Ummah. Particularly those who don't read Arabic. You did not answer my last question. If your scholars are well respected for expressing sentiments like this then they are nothing more than a bunch of fascists and those who quote them or agree with them are much the same.
Well gosh darn Ibe I think I'll go join up with that there
Cross & Crescent Society.
Well, gosh Muzammmil,
Why are you wasting your time on the JW message boards? Shouldn't you be teaching Arabic language classes, in order to better inform your non-Arabic speaking brothers and sisters about the magical beauty of that religion of peace that is Islam?
Are you not being negligent in your duty to make all religion for Allah? Why, why, oh why, are you witholding your knowledge from possible "reverts"? Shame on you!
Swiss vote to ban construction of Minarets.
'Yes' to popular initiative against the construction of minarets
Bern, 29.11.2009 - A majority of the Swiss people and the cantons have adopted the popular initiative against the construction of minarets. The Federal Council respects this decision. Consequently the construction of new minarets in Switzerland is no longer permitted. The four existing minarets will remain. It will also be possible to continue to construct mosques. Muslims in Switzerland are able to practise their religion alone or in community with others, and live according to their beliefs just as before.
The Federal Council and a clear majority of Parliament came out against the initiative. For the head of the Federal Department of Justice and Police (FDJP), Federal Councillor Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf, the outcome of the vote reflects fears among the population of Islamic fundamentalist tendencies, which reject our national traditions and which could disregard our legal order. "These concerns have to be taken seriously. The Federal Council has always done so and will continue to do so in future. However, the Federal Council takes the view that a ban on the construction of new minarets is not a feasible means of countering extremist tendencies."
The four existing minarets are not affected by the ban. Mosques and Muslim places of worship can continue to be constructed and used. The Justice Minister stated that "Today's popular decision is only directed against the construction of new minarets. It is not a rejection of the Muslim community, religion or culture. Of that the Federal Council gives its assurance." Freedom of religion was and is a key element of Switzerland's successful approach. The dialogue between religious and social groups and the authorities must continue and with fresh resolve. Indispensible prerequisites for an open and constructive debate are respect and openness towards those that hold different views.
Attachements:
Press release in Arabic (pdf, 169kb)
Address for enquiries:
André Simonazzi, Federal Council Spokesperson, tel. +41 79 597 64 49
Editor:
Federal Chancellery
Internet: http://www.bk.admin.ch/index.html?lang=enSearch in www.news.admin.ch
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A Muslim is walking through the forest one day, and comes upon a group of other Muslims sitting around a fire telling stories.
He decides to join them, and it is then that he finds their stories consist of a series of numbers.
“. . . 45, 6, 12, 98, 4.5, 1!” When finished the speaker receives boisterous approval.
“Excuse me brother, what is going on here?’ asks the newcomer.
“Oh, we are defending Muhammad, the Koran, and Allah. You see, to save time all our defenses are numbered.
So, for example 45 is ’You don’t speak Arabic’, and 6 means ‘taken out of context’, or 10, 11, 12 is ‘imperialism, colonialism, Zionism‘, 98 is ‘Robert Spencer is worse than David Duke’, 1 is ‘I’ll kill you’, and so on."
“That’s easy!”, says the newcomer. He jumps to his feet and begins to rattle ling off numbers -- “3, 76, 12, 1 , 99, 3.14, and . . . nothing.
He is met with a deafening silence.
He sits back down, crushed, and asks “What happened?”
His friend only shrugs, and says “You didn’t tell it right.”
A Muslim is walking through the forest one day, and comes upon a group of other Muslims sitting around a fire telling stories.
He decides to join them, and it is then that he finds their stories consist of a series of numbers.
“. . .45, 6, 12, 98, 4.5, 1!” When finished the speaker receives boisterous approval.
“Excuse me brother, what is going on here?’ asks the newcomer.
“Oh, we are defending Muhammad, the Koran, and Allah. You see, to save time all our defenses are numbered.
So, for example 45 is “’You don’t speak Arabic’, and 6 means ‘taken out of context’, or 10, 11, 12 is ‘imperialism, colonialism, Zionism‘, 98 is ‘Robert Spencer is worse than David Duke’, 1 is ‘I’ll kill you’, and so on.
“That’s easy!”, says the newcomer. He jumps to his feet and begins to rattle ling off numbers -- “3, 76, 12, 1 , 99, 3.14, and . . . nothing.
He is met with a deafening silence.
He sits back down, crushed, and asks “What happened?”
His friend only shrugs, and says “You didn’t tell it right.”
You know the old saying..."imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"!!
At least Mr.Hooper looks more like his "moderate muslims" now.
Jesus said "if you love me KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS" Does Mr. Hooper and his fellow muslims love Jesus enough to obey his commandments?
Jesus said the first commandment is to love the Lord God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. The second commandment was to love your neighbor as yourself. Hmmmm... doesn't seem like Mr. Hooper and his fellow muslims and jihadists are loving their neighbors like Jesus commanded. Maybe this means they really don't love Jesus like they claim they do.
OOOOOPPPPSSS..Mr. Hooper caught in another lie!! Can you beleive it??
These are some of the refrains of the anti-Islam crowd. You can continue repeating lies and misjudgments but it doesn't stop you from being a fool (or a knave).
Ok, I'll continue to be a fool but I can't be a knave; how about knavette? In today's gender neutral la-la land, the word "knave" would probably be banned from our lexicon by the social engineers but that's another subject altogether.
I am not qualified to argue with you about the Arabic language but I do know that not all Arabic speakers are muslims. And I also know that Mr. Spencer is not a liar or a knave. Nobody who frequents this site has an interest in disparaging islam for the sake of entertainment, bigotry, or as some would accuse, "racism" and "islamophobia". The last two are not relevant since islam is not a race and islamophobia is not a word. The empirical evidence is against islam and the equivalence arguments (Christianity is as bad as islam) have been thoroughly refuted.
It's late and I'm not in the mood for a long religious argument about what Christians do or do not believe but I can assure you of this: Christians do not blow up schools, massacre innocent, helpless children, strap bombs to themselves and detonate them in crowded markets or restaurants, or commit other heinous, senseless atrocities in the name of God or martyrdom. They believe in the Golden Rule and the Ten Commandments and even the most "fundamentalist" Christians do not believe in violence in the name of God. Christians do not consider people of other faiths inferior and they do not persecute them. I am well acquainted with the history of Christianity and the crimes committed in the name of Christianity. I know all about the Crusades, why they happened, and who started them.
If there is a nice, warm, fuzzy islam out there with tens of millions of followers, I'm afraid I've never seen it. What I have seen is exactly what I described to you earlier. I wish I could blame it on my lying eyes but the islam you describe is an amorphous illusion.