But, didn't the smiling apologist quote Qur'an 29:46? That's the verse that says: "And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our Allah and your Allah is One, and unto Him we surrender."
However, that line of discourse is intended for use in Islamic proselytizing, or dawah. Just as seeking new believers is a one-way street under Islamic law, it would be forbidden for a non-Muslim to employ this argument under Sharia, since the underlying message of the verse is: "We worship your deity, too, but you're doing it wrong."
An update on CNN, October 29 (thanks to all who sent this in):
(CNN) -- Authorities in Malaysia have seized more than 20,000 Bibles in recent months because they refer to God as "Allah," Christian leaders said Thursday.
The seizures have fed fears among minority groups, which see signs of encroaching Islamic fundamentalism in the predominantly Muslim but multi-racial country.
"There is a growing sense of Islamic assertion, yes," said the Rev. Hermen Shastri, general-secretary of the Council of Churches of Malaysia. "There is some concern."
The Bibles were written in the country's official language, Malay -- in which the word for God is "Allah," as it is in Arabic.
However, Malaysia's government says the word is exclusive to Islam.
Its use in Christian publications is likely to confuse Muslims and draw them to Christianity, the government says. So it has banned use of the word in Christian literature.
"Malay has borrowed from Arabic, just as it has from Sanskrit and Portuguese," Shastri said. "We have maintained the community has the right to use the word.
"But I think this has ignited a cause in the Muslim communities, who are interpreting it as a siege on Islamic beliefs."
A Home Ministry official directed requests for comment to the ministry's Publications and Quran Text Control Department, which enforces the ban. An employee there redirected calls to a spokeswoman, who in turn asked CNN to call the Home Ministry back. Calls to other departments were similarly redirected.
A Roman Catholic weekly newspaper, The Herald, is challenging the ban in court after the government threatened to revoke its license for using the word in its Malay edition. Hearings on the case have gone on for two years.
"We quote it as it is. We cannot change the text of the Scripture," Herald editor Father Lawrence Andrew told CNN last year. "I cannot be the editor of the Bible."...
When the word All*h is used by non-muslims AND muslims referring to islam, it's not in a benevolent, caring, loving context. It is rather, similar to BANZAI being screamed by Japanese during WWII - i.e., - impending death on a "Kamikaze - Divine Wind" mission.
Weren't the last 6 words recorded on Flight 93 were: "Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar!"?
Jew Lover - Malaysia - Truly Asia - Yeah, Whatever.
Contact addresses and e-mails for Malaysian tourism offices:
Hello, my name is Infidel and I just found from Jihad Watch that...
Jew Lover
Malaysia has a "Publications and Quran Text Control Department"?! What?!
If the Malay word for 'God' is 'Allah', then you write 'Allah'.
If the English word for 'an informal meeting at an agreed place' is 'rendezvous', then you write 'rendezvous'. Can you imagine the French telling the English people in France that they can't use that word?
Absolutely bonkers, but nothing I haven't come to expect from the encroachment of Sharia on the lives of the non-Muslim majority.
"our Allah and your Allah is One, and unto Him we surrender."
Well, isn't that a case of "the pot calling the kettle black"?
Excellent overservances, Robert.
And these people claim to know their Koran? Ha! Rubbish!
"our Allah and your Allah is One, and unto Him we surrender."
Well, isn't that a case of "the pot calling the kettle black"?
Excellent oberservances, Robert.
And these people claim to know their Koran? Ha! Rubbish!
Sorry - that should be "observances" not "overservances".
Keyboarding is not so good this morning.
Yep, not often I'd agree with a Mohammedan, but oviously every single copy should be destroyed.
Allah is not God, Allah is Satan; and he is a jealous Satan.
Divest from Malaysia.
This is clearly a case of mistaken identity...
The lesser moon god Allah, was given an undeserved promotion to the top job by Mahound...Allah is Sin with a different name...Sin was the Chaldean moon god...One definition of 'Chaldee' is demon...Ur of the Chaldees, then would be 'light of the demons'. Probably this was due to the common practice of magic and occult by residents...Mahound then promoted a demon to the 'supreme, one and only God' position.
Abraham most likely left Chaldea because he was sick and tired of the moon god and all the BS that comes with it.
That he would take the chief demon with him is highly unlikely. That he would build the Kaaba as a temple and monument for that demon is also unlikely, unless he built it as a cage to imprison the evil...Centuries later, Mahound came along and freed the beast...It's still free...
And ravaging the country side...Mahound opened the door to hell, and so far no one has been able to figure out how to shut it...
Also, let's drop the idea that Islamic and Arabic can be mutually exclusive. Statistically, they can't, and the handful of Arabic speaking Copts, Jews, Maronites, Assyrians et al aren't going to change any of that. In fact at least half the world's Muslim population is not Arabic speaking, and they all use the word Allah, not because it's native to their language/s, but because it's native to their religion. They far outnumber these Copts, Jews, Maronites and Assyrians. I'm all for 'Arabic belongs to the Mohammedans'.
Robert says:
Qur'an says:"We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our Allah and your Allah is One, and unto Him we surrender. Qur'an 29:46"
Robert, Robert, Robert!
Don't you realize that this verse has been abrogated by
"Effective 2009, Allah is exclusive for muslims"
Qur'an 666:666
Although I am not an expert on the Malaysian language, I can say this: "Allah" is not the correct word for god! Allah is the muslim name for their god. But this is something that can not be reversed. In no language in the world "Allah" is the name of the father of Jesus. Why in heavens name did the translator make that stupid mistake? Was he unaware, unknowing of just uninterested?
It is a good result that those bibles are being destroyed, the readers would not be pleased by the errors in those bibles.
In the bible there are stories about a loving and caring father, but if the book is translated into a language where there is no word for love and care, then no other word will do. Allah is the moon-god. He is pig-faced and he is sitting with an ashtray upon his head. Waiting till Theo van Gogh is finished smoking. I don't care if Theo van Gogh misses the ashtray and burns the snout of Allah, that will suit him fine!
Duh Swami, I want to ask you three questions.
Have you ever heard of the Qur'an alone Muslims?
They claim:
- "Do not write anything from me except the Qur'an. Whoever wrote must destroy it." —Muhammad, narrated by Abu Sa'eed al-Khudri
- "Omar was quoted as stating that he had desired to write down a collection of the prophet's sayings, but refrained for fear of the Muslims choosing to abandon the teachings of the Quran in favour of the Hadith."
- "Muhammad is alleged to have forbidden his followers from writing down anything he said, with the exception of the revelation of the Quran which he received from the angel Jibril."
My question is how many Qur'an alone muslims are there?
I recently spoke to one. It was the strangest conversation
I've ever had.
There basic argument is this:
"Early in Islamic history there was a school of thought that adhered to the view that the Hadith were incompatible with Islam, but it receded in importance after coming under criticism by al-Shafi'i. For 300 years following the Prophet's death, there remained a portion of Muslims who "mocked and derided" the system of Hadith as narrating the proper means of living."
The counter argument is basically this:
"In response however, mainstream Muslims point to other Hadith that legitimise the collection of Hadith. For example, a man was said to have come to Muhammad and complained about his memory, saying: "We hear many things from you, but most of them slip our minds because we cannot memorize them" and was encouraged to write them down to avoid forgetting them. Abd Allah ibn ‘Amr also said that the Quraysh had forbidden him to write down the words of Muhammad, noting that "the Prophet is human, who speaks while angry and pleased?", but was reassured when the prophet responded that "nothing emanates from [his mouth] except the truth. The scholar Al-Shafi'i ruled that "only the Koran can abrogate the Koran, and only a Sunna can abrogate a Sunna".But when scholars ran into trouble seeking to have Hadith overrule aspects of the Quran, they "probably" invented the category of al-Tilawa bidun al-hukm, meaning the doctrine that there had originally been a Quranic verse which supported the Hadith - and could thus overrule the troublesome Quranic invocation - even though it no longer survived."
The Conclusion is this:
"Mainstream Muslims do not deny the existence of false Hadith, but believe that through the scholars' work, these Hadith have been largely eliminated from the traditions. Nevertheless, some critics claim that even if a Hadith was truly spoken by the prophet, it has no importance compared to that of the Quran, and certainly cannot abrogate the word of God."
Any thoughts?
Let them have "Allah". There are so many other fine names. Such as "God". Why use the Arabic/muslim word? The English "God" or the German "Gott" or even the Spanish "Dios".
I cannot be the editor of the Bible....
But the Moslems can. In fact, Mohammed was. And he had the literary foresight to enjoin that his was to be the final edition. These latter day Moslem editors are only enforcing that edition.
*** 33:21 ***
Nevertheless, some critics claim that even if a Hadith was truly spoken by the prophet, it has no importance compared to that of the Quran, and certainly cannot abrogate the word of God.
Any thoughts?
Yeah: the critics make a false distinction.
The mortal whom Tim Russert once referred to on air as the "Holy Prophet" (probably to mollify Ibrahim Hooper scowling at him from across the interview table) cleary conjured the Koran, which renders any distinction between the hagiographic Hadith and the Koran, based on the putative utterances of a recently promoted rock god, irrelevant.
Absolutely! The quran only movement has lost its’ wind, and the claims by Kassim Ahmad in his Malaysian book “Hadith: A Re-evaluation” that hadiths promote sectarianism and are anti-science/reason/women got him his just rewards in being declared and apostate. Stupid is as stupid does.
Perhaps a counter ban could be implemented: disallowing all muslims from using the God when they speak of theirs and force them to use “allah.”
So, let me see if I have this straight...
Christians and Jews are infidels, in part because they have changed their scriptures.
In Malaysia, Muslims want Christians to change their scriptures.
How droll.
It appears the Muslims don't want any other human being to enjoy their God by whatever name they choose...Maybe there is more than one God...and obviously , at least one God is full of hate and violence...he is called Allah...
Oh yes, THREE great religions, we all believe in the same god, blah, blah, blah ...
Me for the shinto Kami, Buddha and Vishnu.
Screw the arrogant mohammmedan hill-billies.
The rest of the world has discovered, imperfectly perhaps, and imperfectly implemented, the value of the human individual and other values over and above the tribe and the established authorities.
We passed them by centuries ago.
Let them catch up with us or be defeated and forgotten.
Although I am not an expert on the Malaysian language, I can say this: "Allah" is not the correct word for god! Allah is the muslim name for their god.
I am an expert on Bahasa Malaysia and you are mostly correct; the Malay word for god is TUHAN. Allah is solely an Arabic word incorporated into Malay as well as 30 other languages that have been influenced by Arabic and/or Islam. Allah is neither unique to Malay nor Muslims; Jews and Copts in Egypt used to use the term Allah (as well as religious terminology like Adonai and Yesuah, respectively) until Muslims politicized Islam and started dissuading non-Muslims from using the term which is now largely not used by non-Muslims in Muslim countries, the obvious irony being that Muslims want nothing other than everyone convert to Islam so they should be flattered when others say "Allah". They would be flattered of course once the Gentile utters "Allah" only AFTER THEY HAVE CONVERTED TO ISLAM.
Absolutely! The quran only movement has lost its’ wind, and the claims by Kassim Ahmad in his Malaysian book “Hadith: A Re-evaluation” that hadiths promote sectarianism and are anti-science/reason/women got him his just rewards in being declared and apostate. Stupid is as stupid does.
Kassim Ahmad was a former Socialist and leader of the Socialist Party of Malaya. He is a noted intellectual
and writer who has, however, long renounced his earlier
secularism and socialism, joined UMNO (the status-quo
Government of Malaysia) and espousing fairly typical
contradictory pseudo-secular Islamic nonsense that
one sees from the government as well as from many Malays
in the opposition. Ahmad had his apostate status reversed
long ago when he joined the status-quo political system.
The Quran without the supplemental literature is utterly incoherent, if not incomprehensible in many parts.
I am not expert in the Malay or Indonesia languages.
TUHAN the acutal meaning in Indonesia is called LORD
JESUS CHRIST in Indonesian is call TUHAN YESUS...
ALLAH is call GOD by all Indonesian Muslim or non-muslim..
In Malaysia originally if not mistaken the old colloquail
for all Malaysian the word that use to call GOD..TUHAN'ALLAH...LORD GOD...
In England, hotel that belongs to malaysian..in
every rooms beside the Gideon Bible is The Koran
printed in Malaysia...did not mentioned ALLAH,
instead mentioned GOD.in its place in English..
The POT CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK.....