Is Ahmad Ibrahim Fares-Hammad yet another misunderstander of Islam, hoping to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies of Allah (Koran 8:60) or just a jihad prankster trying to make a point in a perverse way about "racism" and "Islamophobia" ("You think because we are Arab we will blow people up. I won't blow you up.")? We will probably never know, because one thing is certain: authorities and the mainstream media will not ask the right questions.
"FBI: UTEP student made false bomb threat, said 'it is fun to blow people up,'" by Joe Villasana for KVIA.com, November 25 (thanks to Joe):
EL PASO -- An electrical engineering student at the University of Texas at El Paso (UTEP) appeared before a U.S. Magistrate Judge Wednesday on charges he allegedly made a bomb threat to a UTEP employee.According to the criminal complaint, Ahmad Ibrahim Fares-Hammad "maliciously" made the false bomb threat to an administrative assistant at the Biological Science building on November 18, 2009 and told her "it is fun to blow people up."
The FBI agent investigating the incident said the employee claimed Fares-Hammad walked into the department's office carrying a small device with short metal poles that had yellow, red and blue wires.
The employee told the investigator she had never seen Fares-Hammad inside the building and addressed him in regards to the device. "What's that," the employee asked," it looks scary."
Investigators said Fares-Hammad answered, "It is a remote control used to blow people up." The employee then remarked, "That is mean and not very nice." Fares-Hammad then told her, "It is fun to blow people up," according to the FBI investigator who interviewed the employee.
Fares-Hammad then asked the employee for water and she directed him to a water tank. Fares-Hammad noticed there were no water cups attached to the tank and told the employee he needed a cup. At that point, he told her, "You think because we are Arab we will blow people up. I won't blow you up," according to the FBI investigator. The employee then asked him, "You think I'm flattered by that?" Fares-Hammad replied, "You should be flattered," according to the investigator....
Wednesday, Fares-Hammad appeared in federal court to hear the charges against him. He is charged with "maliciously making false information concerning alleged attempts to injure, kill, or unlawfully damage or destroy a building by means of explosive," according to the criminal complaint....
Why wait for more trouble? Why not remove him from the country, back to country of origin, now? What is the point to keeping him here? How likely is it that he will contribute to the American polity, in any conceivably beneficial way, and how likely is it that he will be a source of all kinds of worry, some of it justified? Why do we make trouble for ourselves? On what theory?
Hugh, if we treat him as he expects to be treated, give him a 1st class education and send him back to his Third-World Hell-hole to enlighten others then they may start to like us.
/sarc
Punt the supremacist little git back whence he came.
He should be out of the school, and out of the country, after an adequate jail term and a substantial fine. Should be zero tolerance for these "misunderstanders" of Islam. See if he finds that fun.
By the way, why is it that Islam is so darned prone to just this sort of misunderstanding? Could it be core Islamic texts like this one?:
Qur'an Chapter 9, Verse 111:
Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain;a promise which is binding on Him in the Taurat [Torah] and the Injeel [Gospels] and the Quran; and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice therefore in the pledge which you have made; and that is the mighty achievement.
Mohammedan wienies get to have some nasty fun riding on the coattails of the jihaddis' lethal reputation.
Now it slips my mind just now, but what is the proper treatment of a sadistic wienie screwing around for fun in a really dangerous high stakes situation?
I have a hunch that even if I remembered, I'm not supposed to post the answer on this site.
It does raise the question, however, of how many of these "pranks" are really just repugnant nasty sadistic fun, and how many are serious probes and shark bumps.
(BTW - A shark bump is when a shark bumps a thing before biting to see how it reacts, i.e. to test if it is live and if it is dangerous)
What's even worse is that every "prank" that gets a minute of attention from defense forces, is subtracting a minute of attention from real threats. So, objectively speaking, it is part of the overall offensive -- intentionally or not.
It has to be treated appropriately.
The whole issue though speaks to the attitude and sympathies of the prankster -- who we are constantly told is to be regarded as one of us. To which I reply not in his heart he isn't !
It just keeps getting curiouser and curioser how many Muslims misunderstand their lovely religion of peace and tolerance. Go figure. Oh yeah, almost forgot, throw the dipshit out of the country.
He was joking while expecting the leverage of PC would carry him in a protected status.
However, that veneer is fading since it seems non-muslims are finally realizing their lives are more important than muslim sensibilities.
Now, the whole world is like an airport, unfortunately. No jokes about bombs.
The employee then remarked, "That is mean and not very nice."
That's a pretty strong indictment from someone who probably fancies themselves an enlightened, respectful of all cultures sort of person. Unfortunately, the employee will never make the connection that ideology drives the act, and it's not just a sucky mean person a la the bumpersticker.
Lorem Ipsum,
Is it possible the administrative assistant was intelligently being submissive in order to diffuse a situation she had no idea of where it was going to go?
If I understand the article correctly she was caught by surprise by this lunatic.
And, if I understand the article correctly I believe she reacted to this threat in a way that demands admiration.
Just a thought.
@Aiken Bryce
Reasoning with the unreasonable. I think that is a tactic that the police use in a hostage situation (and this could have become one). I do think you are correct in the way she handled it.
No dought there will be an interoffice memo about dealing with anyone that walks in with an object with wires that you don't recognize. Hopefully it will be something like, talk quitely and ask questions. At the same time call the police about a BOMB.
Oh, through the bum out of the country! With an electrical education he will know how to make better, smaller and more destructive BOMBS.
This misplaced pride and self-righteousness that Ahmad displayed by being so cavalier about his suspicious package has now got him in trouble. Good. See, it is perfectly normal to be concerned about an Arab walking around with something that might be construed as a bomb, so don’t make light of it next time. And you can thank your fellow Arabs for that, Ah-Mad.
It would be appropriate to deport this character after he has served a custodial sentence. Also, he should not be allowed to reenter afterwards under any circumstances.
Making a false bomb threat becomes a state jail felony when the bomb threat is made on public primary, and secondary schools.
Maybe they should consider the making of bombs threats on all public schools a state jail felony.
Assuming he is being charged with a false bomb threat, under Texas law this is a Class A Misdemeanor.
The range of punishment for Class A Misdemeanors in Texas is :
Class A Misdemeanor Range of Punishment - Texas Penal Code
§ 12.21. CLASS A MISDEMEANOR.
An individual adjudged guilty of a Class A misdemeanor shall be punished by:
(1) a fine not to exceed $4,000;
(2) confinement in jail for a term not to exceed one year; or
(3) both such fine and confinement
http://blog.austindefense.com/2006/10/articles/texas-penal-code/class-a-misdemeanor-range-of-punishment-texas-penal-code/
§ 42.06. FALSE ALARM OR REPORT.
(a) A person commits an offense if he knowingly initiates, communicates or circulates a
report of a present, past, or future bombing, fire, offense, or
other emergency that he knows is false or baseless and that would
ordinarily:
(1) cause action by an official or volunteer agency organized to deal with emergencies;
(2) place a person in fear of imminent serious bodily injury; or
(3) prevent or interrupt the occupation of a building, room, place of assembly, place to which the public has access, or aircraft, automobile, or other mode of conveyance.
(b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor unless the false report is of an emergency involving a public primary or secondary school, public communications, public transportation, public water, gas, or power supply or other public service, in which event the offense is a state jail felony
http://www.dallascriminaldefenselawyerblog.com/2008/07/texas_bomb_threat_law_kaufman.html
Watch CAIR jump to his defense now. Oh, he's just a misunderstood kid. Oh, it was just a joke, no one got hurt, what's the problem? Oh, the secretary was racist in assuming the weird box with wires could be a bomb. Etc, ad nauseam.
I cannot believe how fear driven our country has become.
You all are nothing but prejudice, and racist people.
It saddens me to see this but I don't blame you all. Our media always portrays violence and disgrace. It is no wonder we are all so paranoid and divided.
It is a shame!
Look at the way this story has been twisted.
First of all, pay attention at the way this employee directed herself to this Arab student, "What's that? It looks scary."
What kind of statement is that?! Why does it look scary? Just because he's Arab?
Would she have made the same statement had it been an Anglo-American student, or any other student from a different ethnic group, that was carrying this electrical engineering project? Face it people, the answer is simply no!
Sure, Ahmad shouldn't have joked around but let's face it! This case is led by prejudice principles. He was simply trying to make a point and this employee, the media and YOU ALL have totally blown it out of proportion.
Look at the comments you all are making, which I'd like to point out again, are simply FEAR and PREJUDICE driven.
Don't be ridiculous. This student has as much of right to be in this country as any of you, if not more.
He is not a lunatic. You all don't even know him and are already making all sorts of assumptions based on what the media tells you. And that is our problem here in America. We are quick to swallow lies.
I hope you all are happy with all the derogatory comments you're leaving on this article, because that is all they are.
I personally know this individual and I know he would never do anything to harm anyone. You people are sick in the head.
And no that employee did not do the right thing. She should not have provoked such a conversation by stating that the device looked scary in the first place. The student was trying to make a point. He did not make a threat. His only "wrong" is being Arab in a fear-driven nation.
Bravo America!
Sincerely,
Nubia
deport him immediately....
Yet another ignorant being.
Congratulations to you too!
Someone makes a false bomb threat and you blame the other person? You're an idiot.
F Y I, here is the criminal complaint
http://kvia.images.worldnow.com/images/incoming/PDFs/bombthreat.pdf
Read the comment prior pulsar182, Wellington and then we can talk about idiocy.
Investigators said Fares-Hammad answered, "It is a remote control used to blow people up." The employee then remarked, "That is mean and not very nice."
"THAT IS MEAN AND NOT VERY NICE"!!!???
Another stick a fork in the West, it's done.
This "employee" should have tackled the Muslim and hit him over the head with any heavy implement he or she could find, made sure he was immobilized, then called security, for fuck sake. Jesus fucking Christ!
Nubia,
In Sahih Bukhari, the most canonical of hadith collections, Muhammad said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah."
In other words, if you are not a Muslim, Muhammad says your blood and property will not be safe from Muslims.
Since after 9/11, there have been over 14,000 deadly attacks carried out in the name of Islam around the world in many nations. See www.thereligionofpeace.com.
So you see there is reason for people to be jumpy about Islam and people making bomb threats.
Investigators said Fares-Hammad answered, "It is a remote control used to blow people up." The employee then remarked, "That is mean and not very nice."
"THAT IS MEAN AND NOT VERY NICE"!!!???
Another stick a fork in the West, it's done.
This "employee" should have tackled the Muslim and hit him over the head with any heavy implement he or she could find, made sure he was immobilized, then called security, for fuck sake. Jesus fucking Christ!
Investigators said Fares-Hammad answered, "It is a remote control used to blow people up." The employee then remarked, "That is mean and not very nice."
"THAT IS MEAN AND NOT VERY NICE"!!!???
Another stick a fork in the West, it's done.
This "employee" should have tackled the Muslim and hit him over the head with any heavy implement he or she could find, made sure he was immobilized, then called security, for fuck sake. Jesus fucking Christ!
The employee provoked the response by stating that the device looked "scary". Why did it look scary? Because his of his ethnic background, that's all.
All right hard-headed and horror-media-driven SHEEPLE, (I call you all sheeple, because I'm not sure you all are using your brains as people are expected to do, you simply follow like sheep, you don't think and you don't question) keep those racist and prejudiced remarks coming. They only make your lack of intelligence shine brighter.
I would have loved to see that UTEP employee do what you just suggested. She must've looked like a psycho once they found out this poor innocent student had no such intentions.
Just so some of you get the point, he was not threatening anyone, he made a sarcastic comment trying to point out her prejudiced statement. That's all.
@Nubia
You are the racist and a lier as well. Your projection of what I thought or anyone else thought is your undoing. I am not going to phrase by phrase counter with you. Your characterization is just a reflection of your own weak, sinful and corrupted mind.
Did you help him make the bomb like device? I would not put it past you and your kind. Your arguments are waring thin and the American people are slowly waking up to the way you game political correctness.
In a sense I am glad that you have labeled us as you have it tells me that we are getting to the truth about Islam.
Traeh,
I'm very glad you bring this point up. You're right. I can see the reasoning in people getting all jumpy when they see these statistics. This is exactly what I have been referring to by accusing all of these people of being FEAR DRIVEN.
It's all we see in the news. "Muslim attack here! Muslim attack there! Ah! Beware! Remember 9/11!". In other words, be afraid America! Be very afraid!
These are not the only tragedies that occur in the world. However, they are the ones selected (key-word SELECTED) by corporate news-media outlets. Why? Because we have a war going on in the middle-east. The American government needs our full-fledged support.
Very tragic deaths occur ALL OVER THE WORLD every single day.
It is very unfortunate that some (not all America! some!) Muslims have taken their religion to such extremes, but 14,000 deaths in the name of Islam, Traeh, is just another statistic used by the media to scare you, me and other people. I'm not trying to diminish that number. Like I said, it's very unfortunate that people have taken their religion to such an extreme and that people have lost their lives for it. I don't agree it is right at all...but we also tend to forget, as a "Christian-IN GOD WE TRUST"-influenced nation, that a lot of people have also died in the name of Christianity. Look back at The Crusades, for one. We can see this through history with the witch trials as well, where the persecution of women occurred. Look into it. I'm sure you've heard of the quote, "those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it."
The point is 14,000 deaths do not compare to the well-surpassed 100,000 deaths in Iraq: http://www.iraqbodycount.org/
Nor does it compare to our mortality rate of heart attacks 631,636, and cancer 559,888 among other diseases that take the lives of Americans by the thousands every year. Check it out: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/FASTATS/lcod.htm
Thank you for bringing that up Traeh. You made a very valid argument and I commend you for it.
However, let's not let ourselves be brain-washed by censored media outlets.
Let's not allow ourselves be blinded by racism and prejudice.
Hahaha! Ooookay...weird. Clearly, you are another fearful American.
I'm American myself. I just choose to use my brain instead of swallowing all the lies that are constantly fed to us.
How do you know it was a bomb-like device? If you'd see it, you'd laugh. It looks nothing like a bomb. Like I said, it's merely a remote control, PEOPLE. I mean, sheeple.
And...alright, good luck in your quest to getting down to the "truth about Islam," whatever that means.
As for your accusations of me being racist and blah blah blah, I cannot help but laugh and if reply is what you seek then in a child-like manner, I shall say, "whatever floats your boat."
Grow up.
Aiken Brice, my comment was based on frustration with the PC/MC mindset fostered by many universities and the general attitude that personal and public safety is the responsibility of campus security or professional LEOs. The employee did the best with what tools she was allowed, and fortunately there was a positive outcome. If it had been me, and if UTEP’s policy were different, I wouldn’t have engaged the goblin after his statement about the purpose of the device; I would have acted.
Due to my training in situational awareness (see http://www.teddytactical.com/SharpenBladeArticle/4_States%20of%20Awareness.htm ), I'm almost always in condition yellow. Not paranoid, just aware. Someone presenting a device that looks like a bomb would up my awareness to orange, and the statement "It is a remote control used to blow people up" would escalate the situation to red, giving reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm for someone, somewhere. Under Texas law outside the University, this employee would have been within her rights to meet this threat with deadly force had she been armed, and she had no duty to retreat or talk through the situation. Granted, it was a dummy device, but like a cop or homeowner, there is no duty to confirm it’s only a toy gun or a fake bomb. All that’s required is threat and reasonable fear.
There are several universities (see http://www.concealedcampus.org/state-by-state.php) around the country that understand the "shall not be infringed" portion of the 2A, most notably the entire public system in Utah, which allows the faculty and student body in all universities and colleges their natural right to self defense. UTEP, as I have just found out is not one of them.
Given the infringement of the R2BKA for the personnel at Ft. Hood and the unwillingness of those who did not report the their suspicions of his intentions, Major Hassan had a room full of soft targets. Had the murdered Officers in Tacoma been in condition yellow instead of white, the situation would have had a much different outcome. One of these days someone will present a similar test to the wrong person and I hope the outcome will be more than the tester bargains for.
Upon reflection, you are a more reasonable and patient person than I am, Aiken. I hope we never have to practice our chosen strategies for dealing with the goblins and thugs (of any stripe) who seek to harm us, our loved ones or other innocents we encounter in our daily dealings.
Nubia,
I appreciate you wanting to defend your friend. That's what friends do. However, both the employee and Ahmad used poor judgement.
"It looks scary" was inappropriate. However, Ahmad's response was just as inappropriate, compounded by him playing upon the employee's perceived fears. You admitted that "Ahmad shouldn't have joked around."
So, they both said inappropriate things. The difference is the employee's comment was an opinion about an object. Ahmad's comment was a frightening statement connected to an action. "It's fun to blow people up." The employee didn't know him at all and there's nothing humorous about that statement. He must have a very strange sense of humor. Toying with this woman's fear doesn't say much about his respect or regard for women, either.
I agree this whole situation was harmless and has been blown out of proportion - in a 9-10 world. But, we now live in a 9-11 world. You can't pretend the worst attack on America didn't happen, or that it wasn't perpetrated by Arab Muslims. We've actually come a long way since WW2. After Pearl Harbor was attacked, the Japanese people living here were rounded up and confined.
"She should not have provoked such a conversation by stating that the device looked scary in the first place." I agree that wasn't a prudent thing to say. But, two wrongs never make anything right. Regardless of what the employee said, Ahmad is responsible for his words. You can't blame someone else for what he said.
You're right. And he says he learned his lesson.
The situation was definitely blown out of proportion but you're very right.
He was mostly trying to point out her remark, but you're right, we live in a 9/11 world now.
Unfortunately, Arabs can't give themselves the liberty of being sarcastic in this sense, not in this country. People are paranoid.
So I guess, when Arabs find themselves in this situations where they have to put up with people's prejudice statements the best thing is to keep quiet? Or...kindly ask for some respect?
I wish people would look past their racist judgments and think for a second of the damage they cause to those they defame. But it's America, or society rather--not just America.
And I like that you pointed out that we have come a long way since WWII. That gives me some hope for the future generations.
First of all, it is quite obvious that those quotes are either paraphrased or totally made up. Who these days besides disappointed kindergarten teachers would say, "That is mean and not very nice"? Especially to an alleged bomb threat.
I am simply amazed by the blatant racism in nearly every comment here. I feel it would be to everyones' benefit if you would all take a step back really consider what is happening to this college student.
I admit that it was downright dumb for Ahmad Fares to make a joke like that, but I know that if he weren't Arab, we wouldn't be profiling him as a terrorist. The joke would never have been misinterpreted as a threat. This whole thing is really being blown out of proportion and a young man's future is at stake. He was working on his senior project and nothing more.
I just hope that both sides of this story realize the gravity and levity of this issue. A joke made by a silly kid was blown out of proportion and this would have never even been written about if this particular person was not foreign.
"The FBI agent investigating the incident said the employee claimed Fares-Hammad walked into the department's office carrying a small device with short metal poles that had yellow, red and blue wires."
practice run....and just what was the device and where is it?
When she said, "That looks scary," isn't it even slightly possible that she meant, "That looks like a dinosaur with its head lopped off?" Or "That looks like a spider, and I hate spiders?" Or even, "That looks like it took a SCARY LONG TIME to make?"
Who made the **assumption** that she was talking about bombs? Who made the **assumption** that she was making a racist remark?
He did.
Regardless of her intentions, Ahmad is the one who went to the scarier place of "it's a bomb." He chose to take her comment a certain way (to be offended by it, to believe it was a racist remark) and he chose to escalate the (perceived) tension by saying, "It's a bomb."
We've got it all wrong. This is obviously a pie launching device he was building in anticipation of an upcoming Robert Spencer speach.
Gotta agree with JoeBlough. Looks like a shark-bump to me. What's notable also is that this amazingly enlightened son of the middle-east was threatening a female. My, how masculine of him! How noble, how brave! [spoofing off] His home country needs him at home, yesterday...
"The employee provoked the response by stating that the device looked "scary". Why did it look scary? Because his of his ethnic background, that's all." - Mohammedan Nubia
"That's all?" That's PLENTY. Say, why don't you Mohammedasn stop mass-murdering innocent people?
Oh, sorry, I forgot - you're the "religion of pieces."
What a bunch of Sheeple Mohammedans are! Blindly following a false prophet degenerate con man mass-murdering pedophile Warlord. How stupid can you get!
Islam - so racist and bigoted. Jew/Christian-Hating Islam.
Agree that this El Paso Mohammedan should be deported immediately back to his islamic cesspool of origin.
"And...alright, good luck in your quest to getting down to the "truth about Islam," whatever that means." - Mohammedan Nubia
What does that mean? Here's the truth about Islam: It's evil.
Oh, btw, you're racist and prejudiced.
I'm simply amazed by your utter and complete stupidity.
Oh, btw, you're a racist.
Please refrain from calling Muslims, "Mohammedan".
That is if you would like to not be pinned as racist bigots yourselves.
It's no surprise that the responses I'm getting are just as, if not more, threatening as Ahmad Fares is made out to be.
Oh, btw, have a nice day!
Nubia ---
You and your friend are both idiots. Didn't you hear about the recent massacre at Ft Hood, done by a supposedly loyal, "moderate" Muslim?
Of COURSE people are going to be scared by unfamiliar devices.
HOW DARE your friend start flippantly talking as if he had a bomb.
And HOW DARE YOU to defend such repugnant behaviour.
What if the situation had been reversed, and a non-Muslim had been walking about outside a mosque with a suspicious looking (but harmeless) device?
Nubia and Jazz must think we fell off the falafel truck yesterday. Any Muslim who shows signs of possibly triggering off a terror attack must be neutralized on the spot with deadly force. Of course this is profiling; it's what we will have to do to protect ourselves. Lorem Ipsum has a good post above with regard to this.
Nubia and Jazz are my new favorite posters.
Nubia : The point is 14,000 deaths do not compare to the well-surpassed 100,000 deaths in Iraq
Yes, primarily caused by moslem on moslem violence. The coalition has gone out of its way to prevent collateral damage and deaths, typically resulting in the deaths of coalition troops.
Jazz : I am simply amazed by the blatant racism in nearly every comment here.
If you think we sound racist you should read what's in the quran or hear Friday prayers. Now THAT's some high-grade racism.
Shark-bump, fact.
Amusing that the phrase "Blown out of proportion" is used over and over here.
Well it is not suprising that this young man got into trouble by what he said. Remember that TX has just had experienced the recent horrors of the Fort Hood massacre.
It goes to show that it is time for Muslims to start accepting responsibity for the violence done in the name of its religion and in a special, in its war for over 1400 years against Jews and Christians and its oppression of Muslim women.
I have read the comment prior to pulsar 182's and its yours and I stll think you're an idiot because one simply doesn't make false bomb threats. You know this or should know it. It's against the law and this joker should be charged.
Also, ethnic profiling is sometimes absolutely essential and it's foolish not to profile when there is reason to do so. On 9/11 not all Arabs were terrorists but all the terrorists were Arab. Ditto for many other Islamic terrorist attacks or foiled ones. To suspect young Japanese males or young Zambian males at the same rate one would suspect young Arab males defies common sense to a potentially lethal degree. I'm of Polish and German descent and if were the case that Germans or Poles were going around the world engaging in terrorist attacks of all kinds, I would completely understand why young Germans or Poles would be profiled significantly above the general population. Until the Arab world cleans up its own act (which is increasingly looking like never) then Arabs shold be profiled far beyond most other ethnicities. Try living in the real world and quit being a crybaby.
Like I said, you are fear-driven. You are pointing it out yourselves, "Look at what happened at Ft. Hood, Tx." You're quick to do that. It has been exactly the point I have been arguing. You all let the media control you.
The massacre in Ft. Hood, Tx. is yet another massacre among the many that go on in the world. I'm not saying it's not terrible. Yes, it's a disgrace and I feel for those people, but what I'm trying to get at is that you allow yourselves to let the acts of these other Muslims influence your perspectives on ALL Muslims or Arabs. That is the point. You are being prejudice.
He did not make a bomb threat. Period. He made a sarcastic reply to the lady's prejudice statement.
Why did he assume she was being prejudice? Because, people, he has had to put up with it all through-out his life here in America. Past experience. Again, had it been any other student from any other ethnic group we would not even be having this conversation.
And yeah, sure. The coalition has gone out of its way to prevent collateral damage. Whatever. It's a war! Collateral damage will happen whether we like it or not. We all know it. Or at least we should. Go ahead and blame it all on Muslims. They make a good scapegoat for America, I see. So keep at it with your prejudice ideals, dear sheeple.
To the crowd that continually apologizes for the "extremists" and continually "condemns" actions on behalf of the "extremists(CAiR, ACLU, etc,), actions speak louder than words. Do something about it; and here's a newsflash: it IS the muslims, it IS the religion and it IS the lifestyle. All muslims may not be terrorists but isn't it strange that almost all terrorists are muslims?
Key word here being"continually"
Mohammedans. Mohammedans. Mohammedans.
You racist bigots Jew/Christian-Haters.
Mohammedans. Mohammedans. Mohammedans. Etc. Into perpetuity. Get it?
Oh, and did I mention? Stop mass-murdering innocent people you racist bigots Haters Mohammedans.
Still amazed by the level of hostility these people are demonstrating.
Why is it that I am still being attacked when all I ask for is for you to refrain from using racist terms. I respect all of your opinions on this matter and simply request that you do the same for me.
Like I said before, I understand that Ahmad's actions were quite foolish. He should not have made a joke like that. NO ONE should ever joke around like that. He made an unwise decision. But the fact is that there is no evidence besides a stupid comment that we can use against him. The device is nothing but a senior project he was working on at the time. However, the fact that he is a Muslim Arab has proved to be a far more influential force.
Can't any of you see that this is the main concern here? The fact that he is a Muslim Arab? Also, can't any one see the wrong in that?
If anyone would like to talk to me, I ask only that you refrain from insults and hostility.
Thank you.
Still amazed by the level of hostility these people are demonstrating.
Why is it that I am still being attacked when all I ask for is for you to refrain from using racist terms. I respect all of your opinions on this matter and simply request that you do the same for me.
Like I said before, I understand that Ahmad's actions were quite foolish. He should not have made a joke like that. NO ONE should ever joke around like that. He made an unwise decision. But the fact is that there is no evidence besides a stupid comment that we can use against him. The device is nothing but a senior project he was working on at the time. However, the fact that he is a Muslim Arab has proved to be a far more influential force.
Can't any of you see that this is the main concern here? The fact that he is a Muslim Arab? Also, can't any one see the wrong in that?
If anyone would like to talk to me, I ask only that you refrain from insults and hostility.
Thank you.
People fear what they do not understand.Different beliefs, different values ex: it's ok with muslims if they kill one of their sister's for refusing an arranged marriage but it wouldn't be ok for just about everyone else. CAir is a big apologist organization that is always condemning these acts of violence and apologizing for the extremists. I don't buy their charade and until the psychotic "imam's" stop preaching hate and violence from their "places of worship" none of this is going to stop.
Nubia, Nubia!
Let's answer your post piece by piece.
1. You say all of this is "fear-driven."
Has it occurred to you that some significant part of it is driven by a perfectly reasonable will to survive?
2. You say overemphasizing the statistics of Islam's terror attacks is media-driven, to support America's war in the Middle East.
But if the statistics are so well-reported as you claim, why is it that you have gotten them completely wrong? You refer to 14,000 killings in the name of Islam. Wrong. The documented minimum is 14,000 deadly attacks. Why do you assume that each attack killed only one person! Wrong. The sum total of dead from those 14,000 attacks in the name of Islam around the world since after 9/11 is at least 50,000 people. In addition you must consider all the people seriously injured, a larger number.
3. You say "very tragic deaths occur ALL OVER THE WORLD every single day."
Here your point helps to make another. It's true that the violence done in the name of Islam is not necessarily the most worrisome thing (though the coming Iranian nuke may change that). The biggest concern about Islam is not violent jihad itself, but what jihad leads to: the implementation of Islamic law, by bits and pieces. Europe's demographic trends currently are tending toward a Muslim-majority in Europe before the end of the century. By some accounts, one-third of babies in France today are Muslim. The destruction of civil liberties (for example, no more criticizing Muhammad, now, or you'll have to hire 24-hour bodyguards) and political rights down the drain. Muslim-majority nations have terrible human rights records. Even the best of them, perhaps Indonesia, will put you in jail for five years for publicly teaching any unofficially recognized religion! And that's the best! Saudi Arabia's government is from the ninth circle of hell. And you wonder why people are getting up-in-arms and outraged about Islam?
4. You say don't forget, a lot of people have also died in the name of Christianity.
Under this heading, you mention:
a) Crusades
b) witch trials
c) Iraqbodycount.com.
Lets take c) first, Iraqbodycount.com. You mention the figure of over 100,000 deaths in the Iraq war. If you look in detail at the body count documented at the very website you mention, you would discover that even that website, hardly a supporter of the war in Iraq, shows that over 99% of the civilian body count in Iraq has been directly from jihad killings. So over 99,000 of the civilian deaths in Iraq, according Iraqbodycount.com's own documents, come from jihad.
a) As for the Crusades, they took place only after some four centuries of Islamic invasions conquering about half the Christian world by force of arms. Half the Christian world! Surely a little self-defense is permitted? Or shall we just blow our own heads off for you, Nubia? Furthermore, the Crusaders had to disobey Christ's words in order to do much of what they did. Islamic terrorists can refer to so many core Islamic texts to justify what they do. For example, Qur'an Chapter 8, Verse 12: When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them. So you see, Nubia, Islam is doing what it can to instill fear. It's not the media, as you pretend.
b) As for witches, did you know that each year more people are killed by jihadists than were killed in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition? See Spanish Inquisition.
And again, one must go against the New Testament to justify murdering so-called witches. By contrast, Islamic terrorists simply follow Muhammad's own example as recorded in the most canonical Islamic texts.
In Sahih Bukhari, the most canonical of hadith collections, Muhammad said, "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him."
You talk about racism. Islam is not a race, so stop peddling that lie. Islam is a totalitarian politico-religious system.
Well and accurately stated, traeh.
"Why is it that I am still being attacked when all I ask for is for you to refrain from using racist terms." - Mohammedan Jazz M
Oh, "Mohammedan" is a "racist" term?
LOL! So much for your Con Man Warlord Mass-Murderer Pedophile Thief Polygamist! Oh, and did I neglect? - False "prophet." LOL!
1. "Kill non-Muslims wherever you find them. Lie in wait and ambush them, seize and capture them using every stratagem of war." - Qur'an 9:5
And this:
2. "Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it Allah's. - Qur'an 8:40
And this:
3. "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs in return is the garden of Paradise: they fight in his cause and slay and are slain." - Qur'an 9:111
And many other Jihad verses in the "Mein Qurampf."
You racist, bigots, haters - Mohammedans.
Profile Mohammedans - THEY are the Terrorists.
I do agree with your statement, Stella. I don't think that many Muslims find it to be "ok" to kill anyone, though. True Muslims, that is. Good human beings would never condone such behavior.
This is an honest statement and I thank you for not being hostile.
You stated that "people fear what they do not understand". This is definitely the biggest problem with this case.
People do not understand what the "scary" device actually is. This wasn't clarified until I let people know it was simply an electrical engineer's senior project.
People also do not understand Ahmad Fares. How can we base our entire perspective based on this one article?
I wish people wouldn't jump to so many conclusions so quickly based on misleading evidence and prior judgment.
I feel that many of the people who left comments are straying from the topic by making such broad statements about Muslims and Arabs.
"Can't any of you see that this is the main concern here? The fact that he is a Muslim Arab? Also, can't any one see the wrong in that?" - Mohammedan Jazz M
Nope. Nothing wrong. Muzlims are the Islamic Jihadist Mass-Murderers, end of story. They should be profiled, as Muzlims are the Mass-Murderers murdering in the name of their pagan moon god, "allah." You know, "allahu akbar." Right.
Why don't you live in your own Mohammedan countries? Well, why don't you? I'd like an answer to that.
"The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death)." -- Bukhari 7.62.88
Just look at that 58-year-old Pedophile Mo!
Oh, yeah, that's a "Prophet of God!" An old man who has sex with a 9-year-old girl! A "Prophet of God!" LOL! I DON'T THINK SO!
PEDOPHILE MOHAMET. The FALSE "prophet" Warlord. Piss be upon him, camel piss, you know, which the Warlord recommended for every ill! lol
You pitiful brainwashed Mohammedan Barbarians.
Dear Darcy,
I hope you have a spectacular life. I feel that since you have made a few assumptions of me, I have the right to make a few about you.
You seem very angry and I hope that something good happens in your life that will make you happy again.
I feel that you have been doing your homework, but you're focusing on the bad in order to justify this idea you have of Muslims.
Maybe one day you'll have an encounter with a truly good person who will enlighten you and allow you room to love.
Also, even though it won't mean much in this virtual world, I would like to clarify that I do not identify myself as a Muslim. I am an Atheist, in reality. I just feel that we need to look beyond peoples' religious beliefs in order to really understand. In order to love.
I wish you the best in life, Darcy. Please don't take this reply as sarcasm. I truly mean it.
I hope the best for everyone on here.
Dear Darcy,
I hope you have a spectacular life. I feel that since you have made a few assumptions of me, I have the right to make a few about you.
You seem very angry and I hope that something good happens in your life that will make you happy again.
I feel that you have been doing your homework, but you're focusing on the bad in order to justify this idea you have of Muslims.
Maybe one day you'll have an encounter with a truly good person who will enlighten you and allow you room to love.
Also, even though it won't mean much in this virtual world, I would like to clarify that I do not identify myself as a Muslim. I am an Atheist, in reality. I just feel that we need to look beyond peoples' religious beliefs in order to really understand. In order to love.
I wish you the best in life, Darcy. Please don't take this reply as sarcasm. I truly mean it.
I hope the best for everyone on here.
LOL
You're such an imbecile it defies description.
YOU need "enlightening," you idiot. You have the nerve to speculate about me? Well - let me do the same to you. You're a jackass. A mental void without firing neurons.
I truly hope you meet an intelligent person who will educate you, as you're an obvious Simpleton.
Poor Hater Jazz, poor Hater Mohammedan Atheist racist bigot Hater.
Timothy McVeigh was an Atheist when he blew up the OK City bldg - you remind me of him. Of course, he converted to Christianity on his Death Row bed. You probably will, too.
Again, you 're such an imbecile it defies description. F off, you Creep.
It's ok. I understand your anger. Still, I wish the best for you, Darcy.
Thank you for your time.
Do you know what You People are? You are jihad jihadists. You harbor the same hatred that they harbor against us. It is ignorant, it is foolish, and above all it is dangerous because you put the rest of us into a zero sum game where the ultimate outcome is either we kill all of them or they kill all of us. And that works so well and has worked so well in the past.
And what is really pitiful about you people is that none of you, even though you harbor this terrible hatred have the balls to join the marines and possibly get blown up. No you leave that to other people, to kids. You leave it to other people to put their lives on the lines because somewhere deep inside you there is a cowardly monster that lives off of fear and ignorance, things that you have in abundance.
So you people sacrifice lives and freedom for your own bottom feeding ignorance.
It's not nearly as complicated or convoluted as you have assessed it, Oinos. Most posters here at JW are convinced that Islam is exactly what Bertrand Russell asserted it was almost a century ago, to wit, the only major religion which is totalitarian in structure and ideology. In short, it's spiritual fascism and we don't like it.
Islam has many troubling features about it which can't be found in any other major faith. Here are several: 1) It was founded by a man who ordered thousands to be killed (unlike Jesus, Buddha, Lao-Tzu and other religious or ethical founders who had no one killed), including some six hundred men decapitated in one day, and who had a very unhealthy sexual appetite, among other perversions having sexual intercourse with a nine-year old girl when in his fifties and lusting for his daughter-in-law, Zaynab. No such person has any business being a religious founder, last and greatest of the prophets and all that nonsense. 2) In Islam if one leaves the faith for another he is to be killed. No other religion has this. 3) Islam is the only religion that calls for war to be made upon the unbeliever. 4) In Islamic religious law non-believers are considered to be the equivalent of human waste. What other religion has such a monstrous, barbaric assessment of non-believers?
Accusing us here at JW of bigotry means no more to me, and I suspect most everyone else, than if you called us haters because we despise Nazism or Marxism. Some things should be despised. Yes, not all Muslims are evil, though Islam does have its share of evil folks in droves, but all Muslims are confused because Islam is rotten through and through. It's just awful. Always has been. Always will be. Just as you can't reform Marxism or Nazism, so you can't reform Islam. It's gotta' go.
Pretty simple, actually. Disliking Islam should come to anyone who knows about it. It is a repressor of true freedom and built into its theological blueprint is a virtual guarantee of much intolerance and violence. The wonder of it is that anyone would defend this faith, let alone wanting to be a part of it.
@ Oinos Your perception of the ultimate outcome is accurate, assuming "they" have it their way. Well done! and thanks so much for edumacating us"bottom feeders". Just can't figure out why you would waste your oh-so-valuable time commenting on our obvious ignorance!
Darcy, JazzM and Nubia are tossing around the word 'racist' like it's an Allinskyite's cream pie, hoping for it's intended result. What they don't understand is we are not afraid of the epitaph, because the mission here is education.
I can understand why they might feel we are racists engaging in 'hate speech' though. From an article by Mike Adams:
Hate speech is verbal communication that induces anger due to the listener’s inability to offer an intelligent response.
Because this inability to offer an intelligent response is due to one of two reasons, there are really two different types of hate speech: 1) Speech that is too dumb to merit an intelligent response, and 2) Speech for which the listener is too dumb to offer an intelligent response.
http://townhall.com/columnists/MikeAdams/2007/10/22/why_islamic_fascists_get_away_with_hate_speech
The first definition is not the standard for the Jihadwatch regulars, the second abounds with those tossing the racist pie.
sorry for the double-tap.
Darcy, you forgot cross-dressing pederast.
Wellington : Pretty simple, actually. Disliking Islam should come to anyone who knows about it. It is a repressor of true freedom and built into its theological blueprint is a virtual guarantee of much intolerance and violence. The wonder of it is that anyone would defend this faith, let alone wanting to be a part of it.
Absolutely, Wellington, and I hope in our lifetime everyone associates islam with the same revulsion we all have for Fascism and child molestation.
It just can't happen soon enough for me.
Darcy, you are wrong about Timothy McVeigh. He was a lifelong Catholic, according to a Time Magazine interview.
TIME: Are you religious?
MCVEIGH: I was raised Catholic. I was confirmed Catholic (received the sacrament of confirmation). Through my military years, I sort of lost touch with the religion. I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs.
TIME: Do you believe in God?
MCVEIGH: I do believe in a God, yes.
Time Interview
What's your agenda in misrepresenting his Atheism/Agnosticism? Serious question.
Sorry, Lorem, but you didn't get it.
I only indulged myself with the "racist/bigot/hater" epithets because the two Mohammedans you mentioned were using them against us. I'm so sick of Muslims and their Libtard Apologists bellowing those labels against us it's not funny.
So, they can see how it feels. That was my point.
Oh, and "cross-dressing pederast?" You mean Mo? He was a "cross-dresser?" How do you know?
QE - I've read so many times that McVeigh was an Atheist. My "agenda" is that I've read countless times that he was indeed an Atheist. That's my "agenda." Nothing more.
However, if he was already Catholic, how come he converted to Christianity before he was executed?
At any rate, his domestic terrorism had nothing whatsoever to do with any religion.
Darcy, please at least post something to support your position. I did and it wasn't hard to find either. Conversely I find no supporting material for his alleged Atheism or a deathbed conversion to a religion he already held.
As his religion had nothing to do with the bombing he carried out why even bring it up?
Darcy, IIRC Fr. Botros mentioned it in one of the transcripts posted here. I can dig up a cite, but it will have to be after Sons Of Anarchy ;)
Sorry if I misconstrued your meaning. Mea Culpa.
WTF is wrong with "Mohemmedan"? It simply means "a follower of Mohammed". Isn't that what a Muslim is?
It's not a new term. It was one used before "Muslim" entered the English language. Sort of like Musselmen. It was never used in a derogatory sense, unlike the word "khufr".
Darcy, here is that citation, as promised:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/01/father-zakaria-botros-on-the-perverse-sexual-habits-of-the-prophet-part-iii.html
Third paragraph.
Treah - As far as "witch-hunts" go, this person might be referring to the spate of superstitious fear that gripped much of Europe after the publishing of the "Malleus Maleficorum" or "The Hammer of Witches".
Before that, the Church had considered belief in witches and werewolves and the like to be heresy. However, the pope at the time (I'm typing this from memory, as I do most of my posts, so forgive me) was so impressed by this book, that he declared in a Papal Bull that it was heresy NOT to believe in eitches and werewolves.
HOwever, most of the accused were either unpopular people, in the case of witches, or serial killers/cannibals (like Peter Stumpf) in the case of werwolves.
The witch craze eventually died down, and "werewolves" began to be relegated to Bedlam, once the idea that these people had mental problems, not supernatural afflictions, led to the founding of mental asylums (Bedlam being the first.) One can still find the term "Psychiatric lycanthropy" or "clinical lycanthropy" in mental health texts. It not only includes the classic case of humans who grovel around on all fours, and eat raw meat, but also can include people with the sense that they weren't meant to be born in a human body (much the same feeling that transgendered people have, when a man says he's a woman trapped in a man's body or some such. Tigerman is one such like this. He believes he is a tiger trapped in a human body, and has modifed his human form to be more tiger-like. He might look odd, but he apparently feels better about himself the more modifications he makes.)
As far as Salem went, these people WERE superstitious, and the whole Salem witch-hunt was caused by children making false accusations against someone they did not like.
And as far as listening to children goes, there was a similar "devil-worshipper" scare in Ontario not that many years ago. A bunch of kids had started telling false stories about how their parents performed ceremonies to Satan, performed sacrifices, engaged in illegal sexual activities. It was all a lie, of course, but that wasn't determined after making innocent people's lives a real Hell.
Treah - As far as "witch-hunts" go, this person might be referring to the spate of superstitious fear that gripped much of Europe after the publishing of the "Malleus Maleficorum" or "The Hammer of Witches".
Before that, the Church had considered belief in witches and werewolves and the like to be heresy. However, the pope at the time (I'm typing this from memory, as I do most of my posts, so forgive me) was so impressed by this book, that he declared in a Papal Bull that it was heresy NOT to believe in eitches and werewolves.
HOwever, most of the accused were either unpopular people, in the case of witches, or serial killers/cannibals (like Peter Stumpf) in the case of werwolves.
The witch craze eventually died down, and "werewolves" began to be relegated to Bedlam, once the idea that these people had mental problems, not supernatural afflictions, led to the founding of mental asylums (Bedlam being the first.) One can still find the term "Psychiatric lycanthropy" or "clinical lycanthropy" in mental health texts. It not only includes the classic case of humans who grovel around on all fours, and eat raw meat, but also can include people with the sense that they weren't meant to be born in a human body (much the same feeling that transgendered people have, when a man says he's a woman trapped in a man's body or some such. Tigerman is one such like this. He believes he is a tiger trapped in a human body, and has modifed his human form to be more tiger-like. He might look odd, but he apparently feels better about himself the more modifications he makes.)
As far as Salem went, these people WERE superstitious, and the whole Salem witch-hunt was caused by children making false accusations against someone they did not like.
And as far as listening to children goes, there was a similar "devil-worshipper" scare in Ontario not that many years ago. A bunch of kids had started telling false stories about how their parents performed ceremonies to Satan, performed sacrifices, engaged in illegal sexual activities. It was all a lie, of course, but that wasn't determined after making innocent people's lives a real Hell.
Treah - As far as "witch-hunts" go, this person might be referring to the spate of superstitious fear that gripped much of Europe after the publishing of the "Malleus Maleficorum" or "The Hammer of Witches".
Before that, the Church had considered belief in witches and werewolves and the like to be heresy. However, the pope at the time (I'm typing this from memory, as I do most of my posts, so forgive me) was so impressed by this book, that he declared in a Papal Bull that it was heresy NOT to believe in eitches and werewolves.
HOwever, most of the accused were either unpopular people, in the case of witches, or serial killers/cannibals (like Peter Stumpf) in the case of werwolves.
The witch craze eventually died down, and "werewolves" began to be relegated to Bedlam, once the idea that these people had mental problems, not supernatural afflictions, led to the founding of mental asylums (Bedlam being the first.) One can still find the term "Psychiatric lycanthropy" or "clinical lycanthropy" in mental health texts. It not only includes the classic case of humans who grovel around on all fours, and eat raw meat, but also can include people with the sense that they weren't meant to be born in a human body (much the same feeling that transgendered people have, when a man says he's a woman trapped in a man's body or some such. Tigerman is one such like this. He believes he is a tiger trapped in a human body, and has modifed his human form to be more tiger-like. He might look odd, but he apparently feels better about himself the more modifications he makes.)
As far as Salem went, these people WERE superstitious, and the whole Salem witch-hunt was caused by children making false accusations against someone they did not like.
And as far as listening to children goes, there was a similar "devil-worshipper" scare in Ontario not that many years ago. A bunch of kids had started telling false stories about how their parents performed ceremonies to Satan, performed sacrifices, engaged in illegal sexual activities. It was all a lie, of course, but that wasn't determined after making innocent people's lives a real Hell.
Here is a recent JW thread (Oct. 2, 2009), in which the writer refers to McVeigh's "atheism at the time of the attacks."
Like I said, I've seen that in many articles in many newspapers for many years. So, here's one example.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/10/ex-muslim-receives-death-threats-after-publishing-article-critical-of-islam----in-tulsa.html
Ah, so you're citing an author defending christianity as a source for McVeigh's Atheism over McVeigh's own words?
Interesting and not the least bit convincing. Is it possible you could find something like McVeigh saying in an interview he's an Atheist? I'll save you the time, you won't.
Why are you so hostile?
If you read that JW thread, you'll see that it's Marisol who wrote those words.
Done here. Goodbye.
McVeigh's actions had nothing to do with religion. It was an act to protest the excesses of government control, in particular, the handling of the Branch Davidian compound at Waco. He was only minutely apologetic in saying he was sorry that the 168 people had to die, but oh well.
Darcy, how you read hostility into what I wrote I don't know.
I don't like lies or misinformation. You stated his Atheism as a fact, which from his own words it CLEARLY was not.
The fact that I'm an Atheist and have an intense dislike for besmirching of Atheism in defense of irrationality of religion should be a clue as to why I spend so much time on the topic.
We should be able to discuss these things as adults. Our main weapons against islam are facts, logic and humor.
I apologize if you feel I was hostile, Darcy, it was not my intent.
He was also pissed off at the army, and thought they owed him something more, that he didn't get, after leaving their service, IIRC.
Jazz M and Nubia,
I run training sessions on Bomb Threats and Occupational Safety. Employees have every right to ask questions about suspicious devices. They are also trained to take every threat seriously.
If the admin person had been on one of my courses, she would have reached for the evacuation alarm immediately, not said "That's not very nice." And yes, that means calling the cops and fire brigade as well.
"What kind of statement is that?! Why does it look scary? Just because he's Arab?" No, because it is a pipe (or series of pipes) with wires hanging out. That's one hell of a leap, to assume that something is less scary because of the colour of the skin of the person carrying it. If it was sitting on the ground it would be scary.
Who gets the idea that such a statement is funny? It's a bomb. It's fun to blow people up. Not laughing. Have a chat with your friend.
I know MikeyMike. He learned his lesson the hard way.
But the device was not a pipe with wires hanging out. It really is just a remote control. Like I said before, it looks nothing like a bomb and the components of the remote control could not possibly be used to even build one.
They both did wrong. She, by assuming the piece of plastic with little wires looked "scary" and he by replying the way he did. He never threatened anyone, though. He stated clearly right after that he wasn't going to blow anyone up.
Funny how the newspapers only tell one side of the story.
As I said, had it been any other student of different ethnic/racial background the situation wouldn't have escalated to this point--this is a truth that is hard to accept, but it's the way it is.
But you're right Mike. I understand what you are saying completely, I really do. She followed protocol. The only thing that bothers me is that, unfortunately, ethnicity played a big role in this situation.
Thanks for your insight, Mike.
Like so many who share his/it's affliction, he finds it easier to revert to his/it's base level rather than act civilised and actually communicate meaningfully.