Nidal Hasan explains the Koran and Islam

Here is Nidal Hasan's PowerPoint presentation about Islam, Muslims, and the military. Note the copious quoting of the Koran; the explanation of the doctrine of abrogation (citing Koran 2:106 and 16:101), which usually Islamic apologists in the West dismiss as an invention of "Islamophobes"; and the explanations of defensive and offensive jihad.

Islamic spokesmen in the U.S., if anyone asks them to comment on this at all, will dismiss it as an "extremist" interpretation of Islam and claim that no Muslims in the U.S., not one, believe in this understanding of Islam. But I guarantee you that none of the, not one, will offer a specific alternative explanation of the verses he cites, or of his doctrine of jihad, or of his understanding of Islam.

If anyone does come across an attempt, or the appearance of an attempt, to refute Nidal Hasan's Koranic exegesis, please send it to me at director[at]jihadwatch.org, and I will happily feature and discuss it here.

UPDATE: Here is a pdf of the slides (thanks to Joe).

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49 Comments

And on and on it went...He must have been striking for Imam...

A regular hierophant of Islamic theory and practice...

He understands what Allah demands from his submitters...He read the book. Now he want's a 'fair trial'...We will see if he mentions Allah and the book, or if he will go for the mentally ill defense, or better yet, 'I wasn't even there, I was just passing by on the way to the mosque, got attacked by a blond woman cop, and got shot'...'I was framed'...

How is it possible that Hasan was allowed to present this instead of a medical lecture? Why was he not stopped during the presentation? The warning signs of a deep pathology are all over this. Were there psychiatrists in the audience and what did they conclude from observing this -- or is critical thinking foreign to psychiatrists? Were there laypersons in the audience -- did they show any sign of actually thinking about what they were hearing? Did anyone?

The disclosure of this, Hasan's PowerPoint presentation, especially if it's explained away as being from an extremist interpretation, will contradict the portrayal of him as peaceful and moderate Muslim.

Which was he: moderate or extremist?

If moderate,then the public perception (aided by the media fog Hugh writes about elsewhere) is that his actions could have no connection to Islam -- but what of this presentation? Apparently, if Hasan were moderate then he would not have given it.

Good points (aboe0
Also his presentation is full of typos. Couldn't help but notice. Seems pretty lame to show such a sloppy presentation in front of fellow psychiatrists who are probably rather intellectual.

Kinneddar, respectfully, why do you call Mr. Hasan's presentation warning signs of a deep pathology? He's teaching authoritative Islam, is he not?

It is reported from Israel that IDF Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi told the Knesset's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee Tuesday that "Iran is very radical on one hand, but on the other hand you can't say that it is an irrational country".

If Iran is rational, why not Hasan?

I agree: nothing pathological in what Hasan wrote.

His suggestion on the last slide makes sense.

wildjew, can I get you to send me your list of things to ask Muslims, which you often post here? I can't find the copy I thought I saved.

Email: freemendo@hotmail.com

striking for Imam

Were you in the Navy? That's the only place I ever heard the expression "striking for".

Wildjew, You think there was no pathology evidenced by Hasan's presentation? Giving a lecture on Islam, full of violent and hateful references, while one is scheduled to give a medical lecture (presumably to aid the practice of medicine in helping ones fellow humans) shows arrogance, disrespect, and a total misconstruing of oneself and one's place in society. That's putting it mildly.

Clear warning signs. And in like manner, warning signs elsewhere...

On the front page of the Globe and Mail a story appears relating how Khaled Nawaya, a Saudi-born Syrian citizen, was stopped at the Canadian border for transporting $900,000 in undeclared currency. The man, who was entering Canada to take up a career as a flight instructor, also had in his possession a Hezbollah ring given to him by his brother in Texas, a video of 9/11 and a scarf depicting two former Israeli and American leaders as monkeys.

The man insisted to authorities that he had only $10,000 in his possession. A search of his car revealed the larger sums and additional artifacts. The man is in detention but has not been charged and officials have yet to determine whether the materials are terrorism-related.

Now lessee here: Saudi, flight instructor, Hezbollah ring, large amounts of stashed cash, scarf with propaganda, deliberate lying to officials. I dunno. It just doesn't add up...

"How is it possible that Hasan was allowed to present this instead of a medical lecture? Why was he not stopped during the presentation? The warning signs of a deep pathology are all over this." -- from a poster above

We should be glad that Hasan "was allowed to present this," very glad he was "not stopped during the presentation." As for the phrase "the warning signs of a deep pathology" -- that phrase deflects attention from the main point -- that Nidal Malik Hasan possessed, and had the candor to openly discuss, what mainstream Muslims are taught to believe, and, as we know from so many sources, most clearly do believe.

For many Infidels this slide-show prepared by a truthful Muslim, Nidal Malik Hasan, will be a useful introduction to Islam, presented in perfectly rational fashion, with appropriate Qur'anic passages. Of course there is much much more -- it's the barest of introductions, and the full story is much more terrifying, than what is presented here. But what is presented here is quite enough.

Does anyone among those who presume to protect and instruct us care to learn just a teeny-weeny eensy-weensy little bit about Islam, other than what the apologists (Nidal Hasan Malik was more of a truth-teller, wasn't he?) for Islam, Muslim and non-Muslim (the venal John Esposito, the simply stupid Karen Armstrong) alike, keep assuring and reassuring us? Isn't it at long last time? Wouldn't many lives, of Infidels have been saved, and several trillion dollars not squandered, and a sensible policy, a policy based on reality, one centered on preventing the slow conquest by the forces of Islam of Western Europe (with Israel the most important theatre in the war of self-defense against the world-wide Jihad), through continued deployment of the Money Weapon, apparently unstoppable immigration, campaigns of Da'wa -- all of which are leading to the demographic conquest that Boumediene, at the U.N. in 1974, and Qaddafy more recently, have -- like so many Muslims -- so confidently predicted would be inexorable.

And it will be inexorable if people who have every right to preserve and protect the civilisational legacy they have inherited, and in which they have a life estate, make sure that there something left, to be passed on, after that life estate comes to an end.

This is our interest. These are our Future Interests.

The PowerPoint presentation was truly amazing. Not because it contained any new info (which it didn't), but because it was being presented by a Muslim.

The whole point of the presentation seemed to be, "Because Islam teaches all these things, it is fundamentally incompatible with service in the U.S. military."

I couldn't agree more. In fact, I doubt that any regular reader of Jihad Watch will find much with which to disagree in MAJ Hasan's presentation. He's just saying the same things we've been saying all along.

It is nice to hear an American Muslim agreeing with us. It would be even nicer if our media and our government would start listening, but we all know that's never going to happen.

Kinneddar, I agree with your point that Mr. Hasan having given a lecture on Islam, full of violent and hateful references, while he was scheduled to give a medical lecture shows arrogance and disrespect. I'm not sure that I agree that it shows a total misconstruing of Hasan's place in society. Hasan as a devout Muslim, knows his place in society. Hasan has repeatedly stated he is a "Muslim first."

Some may disagree with this statement. I believe one can be a "Jew first" or a "Christian first" and still be a loyal citizen within an essentially just society like America's society as it now stands. It is apparently not possible to be a (devout) "Muslim first" as Hasan is and at the same time be a loyal American citizen. This is a matter of faith; not pathology. Hasan is a devout Muslim.

Hugh,

"what mainstream Muslims are taught to believe, and, as we know from so many sources, most clearly do believe."

A comment you fail to earn and cannot support.

All the Muslims I have spoken to in private and who are well known to me neither agree with anything Nidal espoused, nor the actions he engaged in.

I believe I am able to carry out a more candid conversation with truly devout Muslims and be afforded a more honest opinion from them about anything than you.

The "little screamers" and nut jobs like Nidal that you dig up for front page schock value are chosen by you because the tune they play fits right in with your qouir.

Nice to see you finally published a few articles outside of the lowly comment section...but I find you now back where you belong down here in trenches with the rest of us.

Peace
Abdullah

Undaunted, I will be happy to contact you directly. Perhaps you might be interested in participating on our Jewishviews Yahoo discussion forum. We could use a student of Islam like yourself. I cannot remember. I don't think it was me who posted a list of things to ask Muslims.

The "little screamers" and nut jobs like Nidal that you dig up for front page schock value are chosen by you because the tune they play fits right in with your qouir.
--the little arab-wannabee and muhammadan bullshit artist, abudullah

What is a quoir? (Freudian slip? because abdullah is switch hitter???)

So Major Nidal was simply "dug up" for "front page schock (sic) value.????


You can tell that abdullah is a paid misinformant from CAIR. But why would they hire someone as shit-all stupid and uneducated as abdullah? A guy gets paid to dump garbage on this site and he can't even read his own nonsense.

Bit of hysteria going on in this thread methinks, and probably from people who have never actually MADE a Powerpoint presentation and perhaps never even seen one.

The objective of the slides are as main points and reminders to back up a speech.
Not one of you actually heard what Nidal Hassan actually said during the presentation so just how can you know what his purpose was? As one person said he appeared to be presenting an honest picture.

Now I am no apologist for this nutter but I CAN see that he may well have been explaining to his fellow military psychiatrists just what may influence Muslims in the military. I would reckon that to be a quite legitimate action for one with special knowledge and one who can impart that to colleagues who may later need to deal with it.

Of course it doen't excuse his atrocious command of the English language or what he later did. His spelling and misunderstanding of words ("through" when it should have been "threw" for example) is sloppy and makes one wonder if US education has now sunk to the levels in the UK.

Wildjew,

"Hasan is a devout Muslim."

Then what is he doing in a strip club?

Then what is he doing shooting innocent people?

Then what is he doing attacking unarmed soldiers he swore to protect and aid in a signed contract?

Can you explain how you are able to entitle him "devout Muslim." with these questions in mind?

Furthermore:

"By Allah, he is not a believer! By Allah, he is not a believer! By Allah, he is not a believer.'' It was asked, "Who is that, O Messenger of Allah?'' He said, "One whose neighbor does not feel safe from his evil". [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

Another narration of Muslim is:

Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "He will not enter Jannah whose neighbour is not secure from his wrongful conduct".

Knowing the rules and following the rules is how one is able to be a Muslim, and clearly Nidal was not in the state of Islam with many of his actions, the foremost being the attrocities he committed.

And, to g oone more, if your arguement is, "He was a devout Jihadi...blah blah blah."

Then explain to me how anything he did abides by the very basic rules of a Just Islamic War...there are rules of engagement and if they are not abided by to the letter a person is not acting upon Islam, he is being Zalamin, "a rebel" against the authority of God.

If you can qualify this I'll jump right on your band wagon and scream the loudest.

I only make the challenge because I know what Nidal did can never be Islamically justified no matter what some nut bag cheers about from a cave or a sand dune.

Peace
Abdullah

Like WildJew I agree that the presentation evidences no pathologies except those inherent in Islam. As for the reservations of Kinneddar about the appropriateness of the presentation in response to the "medical lecture (presumably to aid the practice of medicine in helping ones fellow humans)", it should be kept in mind that we are talking about psychiatrists not surgeons. Hasan provided information about Islam to his colleagues in an apparent effort to help them understand how the minds of Muslims work and the problems they encounter in applying their belief system to the exegencies of military service.

I see nothing here that's irrational except the basic belief in a skyfairy which, last time I looked, is not accepted by our society as irrational belief. What I do see is an apparent attempt by the Major to comply with the intents of the medical lecture by supplying information which the participants would not have gotten easily any other way.

Unfortunately for the Major, the rational appearance and motivation for his presentation will not serve him in the establishment of an insanity plea in his upcoming court martial nor would it probably serve to establish any connection to terrorist activity except as motivation for that activity.

@abdullah

Your bullshit ain't working here.

You need to get a real job!!! LOL!

Islam ONLY requires ethical conduct in muhammadan-on-muhammadan relationships. All those lovey-dovey suras reference muhammadans ONLY!

Silly wuzlim! Don't you know anything?

According to the presentation, muslims in the US army could have problems killing fellow muslims, while it doesnt touch on the then occurring dilemma of killing non-muslims (because thats not a dilemma in islam; killing non-muslims is ok).

The recommendation on the last slide:
"Department of Defense should allow Muslim Soldiers the option of being released as "Conscientious Objectors" to increase troop morale and decrease adverse events"

The recommendation shows he blames not islam, but rather the US army for puting muslims in their "conscientious" position. The blame is however on islam, and the "conscientious" objections are discriminative.

Somebody that is not loyal to the US army, should not even be in the US army.

The recommendation should be that muslims swear loyalty to the US army, implicitly superseding islam, and condemning islam for teaching such doctrines, and making an oath to fight against these islamic doctrines. Or be removed from the army, and US altogether.

Wildjew, it was unstated but assumed that the society in which Hasan couldn't find his place, was American, or perhaps a better phrase, "Western." And perhaps a better way to state his problem is that he misconstrues the American and Western world's estimation of his society/religion.

His PowerPoint presentation would have gone over very well in 8th century Arabia -- but not here, especially not in a medical lecture hall, and not now. Hasan grossly misperceived his immediate environment. I stand by my statement: that's pathological.

Yankel,

I don't blame you, you're just ignorant...the references are from Madina.

Who lived in Madina?

You and your CAIR hang up...as pathetic a conspiracy theory as I have ever heard...but hey, if it gets you off to fantasize about some evil empire infiltrating your hate media-fest with messages of truth...well, have fun with it... Who am I to rain on your parade?

After all, your life must be pretty miserable...I mean, you have to work for JW as you are here all the time...

I am just passing through.

Peace
Abdullah

Actually, I don't know why Nasan thought that it would endanger his soul to kill other Muslims. The Sunnis and Shia have been going at it for centuries. It's no big deal, just keep telling yourself that they aren't "really Muslims or not as good a Muslim as they should be".

Muslims have no problem killing Muslims in Pakistan. Just read the news.

Now, now, children -- no jumping to conclusions just because a smoking gun full of fingerprints has been found. After all, your FBI is on the case, and just look what they've accomplished!

"The investigation to date has not identified a motive, and a number of possibilities remain under consideration."

http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel09/forthood110909.htm

"... the law's delay, the insolence of office ..."

-- Hamlet, Act III, Scene 1

Hugh, had Hasan been stopped then, in clearly expressed terms of disapproval, perhaps he would have had second thoughts; instead he was emboldened. Just as when those Muslim preachers of hate on New York's sidewalks shout the most treasonous of phrases without being stopped, the complacent attitude of the public and the authorities only serve as encouragement.

And the phrase "deep pathology" does not deflect from the real problem; in fact, it is the real problem. Islam is a mass politico-religious movement started by a desert megalomaniac many centuries ago, but it operates on humans at the personal, psychological level. It cannot do otherwise. History is carried out by individuals, acting one by one, spurred on by their own perceptions, fears, emotions. The system of Islam is master at psychological manipulation and intimidation.

I stand by my statement that the deep pathology exhibited by Hasan is the problem, and that may be misinterpreted by the public as the same as saying he is mentally ill (stressed out, etc.). But my intent was to show that his pathology was created by his Islamic background. I was viewing it from the individual level; you are looking at it from the systemic level. Essentially, we are saying the same thing. I should have been more explicit.

AM : I believe I am able to carry out a more candid conversation with truly devout Muslims and be afforded a more honest opinion from them about anything than you.

Right. Because moslems never lie to each other, do they? You're not really one of them, just a useful stooge.

Choosing islam is still just that. It's like choosing to be a fascist or pedophile. It's not a rational or good choice.

'Truly devout moslem'.......[vomit]

When I first heard that Hasan was involved in "prosletising", I assumed he was bugging his fellow soldiers to go to Iftar dinners and "interfaith" night at the mosque. I had no idea what form his prosletising actually took.

According to a colleague of Hasan's, he would present these rants about Islam when he was supposed to be lecturing on medical matters.

On one such occasion, this colleague asked Hasan during his lecture what this subject matter had to do with the assigned topic—which in this case was "environmental medicine". Apparently Hasan became enraged by this simple question.

The content of the powerpoint slide show here is quite astonishing. There has been some disagreement here on JW as to the usefulness of the term "Islamist", but Hasan considers it a *positive* term, denoting someone who "advocates rule by Gods (sic) law—Islamic political rule sharia law i.e. (No separation of Church and State)." Evidently, he considers the imposition of Sharia a positive thing, as well.

In his section on Fatwas and the U.S. Military, he includes a quote: "It's getting harder and harder for Muslims in the service to morally justify being a miliary that seems constantly engaged against fellow Muslims".

And why would that be? Here, Hasan quotes Qur'an 4:93, "And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his punishment is Hell..."

Under the bland heading of "Adverse Event", Hasan actually cites an infamous act of Jihad terrorism by a Muslim in the service: "Hasan Akbar, 101st Airbourne Division 326th Engineering Battallion—through (sic) grenades killing/wounding many"

Bizarrely, Hasan follows this up with a slide marked "Evaluation Ideas/hints", which includes the bullet point, "Don't doubt their (Muslims) loyalty to U.S. > God vs Country".

He goes on to spell out the tenets of defensive and offensive Jihad, even including the "Verse of the Sword" and the infamous quote, "We love death more then (sic) you love life!"

In "Conclusions" he demands that Muslims be exempted from serving in any capacity that renders them at risk to hurting/killing believers", and notes that "God expects full loyalty—that "Muslims may be seen as moderate (compromising) but God is not".

What is Hasan doing here? This is standard operating procedure for Muslims dealing with Infidels: first, warn them; then, if they do not either accept Islam, or agree to pay the Jizya with submission (i.e. accept submissive status to Muslims), then, with Allah's assistance, attack them.

And that is just what Maj. Nidal Hasan was to do at Ft. Hood, not long after this lecture.

Abdullah, you wrote: "By Allah, he is not a believer! By Allah, he is not a believer! By Allah, he is not a believer.'' It was asked, "Who is that, O Messenger of Allah?'' He said, "One whose neighbor does not feel safe from his evil". [Al-Bukhari and Muslim].

'Another narration of Muslim is:

Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "He will not enter Jannah whose neighbour is not secure from his wrongful conduct".

I believe you've been posting for some time on this site. Quite honestly, I've not followed you close enough to get your measure, in a manner of speaking. I run a small business. Thus my time is limited.

I do believe there are peaceful Muslims and Muslims I might or should consider friends and neighbors. It is simply that I do not know how many there are. The other day when I mentioned Israel, you answered that in your view Israel is not worthy of trust. This is a red-flag to me Abdullah because I believe, if a Muslim hates Israel, hates the "Zionists," hates the Jews, etc., this is not indicative of a peaceful Muslim and this is not a Muslim that loves God in my opinion.

Your quote above, "Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "He will not enter Jannah whose neighbour is not secure from his wrongful conduct," this is an interesting statement full of implications.

In the Torah it is written, "You shall love your neighbor as you love yourself." This was also quoted by Jesus as the second most important commandment. Jesus was asked, "Who is my neighbor?" Do you know how he answered?

In the Jewish Bible (or the Torah / law and the prophets) there is no commandment to either love or to hate our enemies. Thus I must ask you, who is my neighbor Abduallah? Who, as a devout Muslim, do you consider your neighbor? Who, as a devout Muslim, do you consider your enemy? Who do you think Messrs. bin Laden and Hasan consider their neighbor? Who do they consider their enemy?

Abby:
It's good to hear you spinning your web again.

1)Husan was described as a devout Muslim by his family, friends, imam etc. Were they also "fake Muslims?"

2)Husan was in a strip club because he wanted to taste the juice of some real women in this life as he realised he would be going out in a blaze of glory and the taste of metaphysical virgins may not be the same much like Atta and 9/11 Jihadis.

3) Killing fellow soldiers of an Infidel army was the highest form of Jihad and would please his Allah and absolve him of all his sins.

As for the other Islamic bullshit and text, you should be taking that up with likes of Husan in your community of Islam and not me who have no intention of joining the clan.

Slave; you're a liar no matter what you say on whatever thread.

War
Undaunted

Thanks, wildjew. I'll check my email for list and link. Now, go ahead and keep on kickin' Abdullah's smarmy ass.

Little Mikey: "I am just passing through."

Good. Maybe we won't see him anymore.

I have a question.

Does the rules against attacking inocents only apply just to Muslims by Muslims, meaning it is A-OK to attack non-Muslims?

Thank-you.

WJ you wrote “The other day when I mentioned Israel, you answered that in your view Israel is not worthy of trust.”

I do recall stating this.

Action is the only thing we can know, not what goes on behind the scenes, and Israel has been caught red handed a plethora of times engaging in espionage at every level against us, the US, an “ally” of Israel…this more properly frames my comment… I know the entity I am speaking of and I do not trust anything they say. I also, for that matter, do not trust the other governmental entities in that arena.

WJ you wrote “In the Jewish Bible (or the Torah / law and the prophets) there is no commandment to either love or to hate our enemies.

I understand this, and I note you point out a subtlety…it may not command to love or hate enemies, yet I must comment that there are numerous verses, too numerous to post here, that dictate treachery and genocide against the enemies of Israel…love? Hate? I don’t think those emotions equate to what is commanded therein. Yes, I am commenting about these verses out of context as I have not studied the Torah/Old Testament - Talmud/ Tanuk … I have only read a few chapters of the English translation King James Version which is probably very different from the original.

WJ you wrote “Thus I must ask you, who is my neighbor Abduallah?”

Those whom you consider your neighbors.

WJ you wrote “Who, as a devout Muslim, do you consider your neighbor?”

It is clearly defined in hadiths and it is true today just as it was back then. Those people who live in close proximity to you. One Hadith says seven doors one says forty…it is a generalization…and the neighbors are who they are regardless of what they worship…they have so many rights on the Muslim…I don’t need to tell you, you can easily look up in the hadiths.

“Who, as a devout Muslim, do you consider your enemy?”

Seems a simple question, doesn’t it? However, it is open ended, thus deserving of a similar answer: only those who choose to be my enemy are considered my enemy.

WJ you wrote “ Who do you think Messrs. bin Laden and Hasan consider their neighbor? Who do they consider their enemy?”

Actions speak louder than words, don’t they?

Peace
Abdullah

BCG,

Innocent is innocent...it is not difficult to determine who is innocent and who is an enemy regardless of faith and many times in specific to faith there are commands for a Muslim in a just conflict to protect people, specifically priests and rabbis...those who are not armed and not actively fighting.

There is even a command not to attack an unarmed soldier.

Ask yourself, does it happen today that people behave with this level of honor on the field?

Peace
Abdullah

Abdullah, you know why Hasan did what he did. It was spelled out quite clearly in his power point presentation. If he really has the faith wrong, it only points out how your efforts are being wasted here. The real Misunderstanding ones are causing all the killing. You really should direct your efforts to those in real need of your wisdom.

Abdullah,

You do recall stating this, You recall saying something to the effect that Israel is unworthy of trust.

Israel is a country not unlike most countries. Israel is not perfect. Israel has made mistakes like any other county. Often the prime ministers who have made the worst mistakes are far leftist prime ministers like Shimon Peres and other leftist prime ministers. But to accuse Israel of serial treachery as you do, it seems to me, goes back to your Islamic faith which teaches that the Jews are a treacherous people by nature; despised and rejected by Allah.

Israel has been a fairly good ally to the US, given the two nation's very different interests in the region. Israel has bent over backwards to accommodate American demands, often to her own hurt. Israel has withdrawn from precious / strategic territory at US insistence. Israel has ended wars of self-defense - on the brink of victory - at US insistence.


You say there are numerous verses in the Bible, too numerous to post here, that dictate treachery and genocide against the enemies of Israel. Genocide perhaps, by today's standards but what of the second world war? What of Germany's genocide against Jews and other "sub-humans?" What of the Allied response to Nazi Germany's atrocities? The Allies indiscriminately bombed German cities, killing hundreds of thousands men, women and children? These were civilian targets. Isn't this the nature of war when a nation like Germany is bent on world domination, just as Islam is bent on dominating the world? When one nation or people is bent on world domination, perhaps "genocide" is the natural response. What do you say? Where are all the verses in the Bible that dictate treachery, since you've studied the Bible?

A neighbor is clearly defined in the Hadiths as those people who live in close proximity to you? I have neighbors who live in close proximity to me whom I believe might want to kill me were the climate a little different here in the US. In a few years hence, it may well be different for American Jews. I've got anecdotal evidence; I've heard that my Muslim neighbors hate the Jews. They hate Israel and believe about Israel the things you believe. These are my neighbors?

If you've got a man who lives in close proximity to you and he wants to kill you and your family, he is your neighbor according to the Hadiths?

[As long as guns are widely available in the US] we’re going to be unusually vulnerable to mentally ill spree killers of various kinds, including spree killers who nod in the direction of Islamist thinking.
...
Simply put, if this is the terrorist threat then the terrorist threat isn’t that big a deal.

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/archives/2009/11/nidal-hasans-powerpoint.php

The author just glides by the powerpoint and attributes everything to the availability of guns.

But did not the Koran say in Surah 9:5 says to kill the infidel, non-Muslims?

Thank-you for your response.

Wildjew,

I am on the same wavelength with you about the barbaric excesses of all involved in WWII. I have even been labeled “a hater of America” because I pointed out the genocide committed against Japaese civlians that was even named official “Terrrorism” by our own government…napalm fire bombing killed far more Japanese civilians than both bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

You should read the Hiroshima Diary…http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=57315085 I have an original worn yellowed paper hard back copy of it in my library.

Conscience is seen as hatred by some here.

And the serial treachery? No, specific treachery…the bombing of the USS Liberty has nothing to do with Islam, the poisoning of civilian water wells along with the killing (through biological warfare) of British soldiers as well as Arab civilians had nothing to do with Islam, the espionage…no, my opinion about the modern state of Israel is a secular one based upon their own actions, nothing more.

“When one nation or people is bent on world domination, perhaps "genocide" is the natural response. What do you say?”

There is no order in the Quran for world domination…it isn’t in there. There are many that speak of the divine creation of states, nations, peoples, as a balancing force otherwise you would have only chaos.

Wild Jew you wrote “Where are all the verses in the Bible that dictate treachery, since you've studied the Bible?”

I am not saying it is the original verse, just what is in there now, that may have been edited, but I’ll point to two sections in general: read Genesis 30 the “story” about Jacob and how he requested freedom from his employer then rigged the conditions the flock were subsequently raised in after the deal was brokered to receive those from the flock and herd in the herd as his portion that were only spotted. The lesson for treachery is in there. Also, read Genesis 34 and find out how the Israelites committed treachery in signing a peace deal…this is from the Bible translation, I know not the Greek. Mrs J is a frequent poster here, some day ask her she may enlighten.

Wild Jew you wrote “"They hate Israel and believe about Israel the things you believe."

And as far as what I believe? I believe about ISRAEL, not Jews, stop trying to tie this into an ethnic thing. I am speaking of a state entity and its behaviour irrespective of who is in the ranks...Israel did blow up the USS Liberty, it did commit espionage in spades against us, it did everything I said it did because I have the proof it did it. Evidence leads to conviction, and mine is a personal conviction based on evidence...it is not some pathetic prejudice.


Wild Jew you wrote “"If you've got a man who lives in close proximity to you and he wants to kill you and your family, he is your neighbor according to the Hadiths?"

Recall the who is my enemy line? Don't be silly... a person whom you are sure is an enemy is just that...and you deal with them as such.

Peace
Abdullah

BCG,

I would like to address your question about your out of context quoting of Quran 9:5. That to which you refer must have context, or you destroy meaning.

This verse was revealed as a response to treachery from the Pagan Quraysh who violated a peace treaty with the Muslims by way of mass murdering a group of unarmed Muslims, who were unarmed due to the treaty. After this gross violation of the treaty between the Muslims and the Pagan Quraysh, the order came down then, and with the mercy and consideration of God in that He gave the treacherous Pagan Quraysh a four month warning given in 9:2 in order to allow them to evacuate Mecca or make peace, and that after which those Pagan Quraysh remaining who were murderous traitors would be given no quarter.

This is not a license to attack anyone a Muslim wants at any time in history. It was a just directive from God in response to a very specific issue of treachery at a specific time and place, i.e. the treachery of Pagan Quraysh.

The time for the order was fulfilled when those enemies who ere Pagan Quraish and their allies who refused to clear of Mecca by the end of the fourth month were cleared out by force...they chose to stay and fight rather than leave or make peace.

The Pagan Quraish violated a treaty and were subsequently routed from Mecca. It ended.

It was an order for a specific instance in time that was fulfilled.

Peace
Abdullah

Abdullah, you speak of the patriarch Jacob's deception as a young man. Jacob means "heel catcher." Jacob took his elder brother's blessing, you are right. God judged Jacob as He has judged Israel for our sins but what of Muhammad? Didn't Muhammad teach murder, deception, the mistreatment of women, etc.? Muhammad's God indulged his prophet in his sexual licence. Not so YHWH His servants? When Abraham took Hagar, God was angry with his servant. No matter what Muhammad did to women, Allah indulged his prophet. Why did Allah indulge the terrible behavior of his prophet?

"...arrogance, disrespect, and a total misconstruing of oneself and one's place in society."

Kinneddar: From an informed lay (not professional) perspective, I submit that while many mentally ill persons may exhibit one or more of the above-named characteristics, none of them is diagnostic of any recognized mental-behavioral disorder. They are simple errors of judgement and assessment that any, otherwise and normally, rational person might make in a given situation. I'm not mentally ill (yes, we're the last to know), and I frequently practice arrogance and disrespect. On top of that, I've been accused often -- unjustly I assure you -- of not "knowing my place."

Re. how it is that Muslims define 'guilt' and 'innocence', here is Nonie Darwish, from her book on Sharia, 'Cruel and Usual Punishment', chapter five, 'Life Behind the Muslim Curtain', subsection entitled, '*We* are Sinners, vs. *They* are sinners'. from pp. 133-135:

'When I moved to the United States, I began to learn about other religions, something I was not allowed to do in Muslim countries. I was struck with a new concept that I had never heard before. Christian pastors often said, 'We are all sinners', and only through the grace of God can we be forgiven. That statement was revolutionary. I needed days to think about the depth of its meaning, the premise of this concept, and how far it will lead me in how I view myself, others, and people who follow other religions.

'We humans are struggling, imperfect, and vulnerable, whether we are Christian, Muslim or Jew. "We are all sinners" was one of the most comforting, liberating, uniting and humbling expressions I have heard by a preacher. The notion that God is gracious and forgiving was an exciting revelation to me. That meant we don't have to die in bloody battles killing others - "the real sinners" - to guarantee salvation.

'In Islam, my religion at that time, we looked at ourselves and others very differently. *They* are sinners...Non-Muslims are sinners...We are Muslims". They are guilty, but we are innocent. Muslims and non-Muslims were never considered as equals in anything, not even in our imperfections as human beings. The Qur'an and the Hadith wee consumed with the idea of kaffir (non-Muslim) representing 'evil' and Muslim representing 'good', which caused a split in how human beings were perceived - as good and bad, superior and inferior, human and sub-human.

'*Our Islamic education stressed the inequality between Muslim and kaffir* {my emphasis - dda}. Kaffir is the dreaded word used against others and also against Muslims who deviate or who do not follow Allah's commands to the letter. Kaffir means 'infidel', or a person who goes astray.

'Muslim leaders, even in the West, teach that non-Muslims deserve to be punished. In a question and answer session with Imam Abdul Makin in an East London mosque, the imam was asked by Allah would tell Muslims to kill and rape innocent non-Muslims. The imam's answer was, "*Because non-Muslims are never innocent* {my emphasis - dda}. They are guilty of denying Allah and his prophet".

'A top Muslim lawyer in Great Britain, Anjem Choudary, baked up the imam's position, saying that all Muslims are innocent. "You are innocent if you are a Muslim" Choudary told the BBC. Choudary said he would not condemn a Muslim for any actin. 'As a Muslim, I must support my Muslim brothers and sisters...". Choudary went on to say, 'I must have hatred to everything that is not Muslim".

..."Omar Bakri Mohammed, leader of the Saviour Sect, publicly condemned the deaths of 'innocents' after the July 7 2005 London transit bombings; but when speaking at the Selby Centre in Wood Green,North London, on July 22 2005, he referred to the 7/7 bombers as the 'fantastic four' and explained that his grief for the 'innocent' applied only to Muslims. His words were 'Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar."

END EXCERPT.

So: in classical Islam, kuffar are guilty by definition, Muslims are innocent by definition.


Abdullah--
You say "there is no order in the Quran for world domination" and yet in her book, Now They Call Me Infidel, Nonie Darwish explains:

Radical Islam has lofty plans to conquer the West and won't let go. That is something Americans don't understand and have trouble believing...what Americans still don't understand is that the goal of jihad is to conquer the world, literally, for Islam, and to usher in a Caliphate--that is, a supreme totalitarian Islamic government, a lifestyle by force, one nation, one party, one constitution (the Koran), and one law (sharia Islamic law). Anyone who reads and speaks Arabic and monitors Web sites and listens to speeches and sermons in mosques around the world knows how seriously many Muslims believe in their mission to dominate the world for Islam, the one true religion.
Make no mistake about it: They are sacrificing their men, women, and children for this goal of world domination...(pg 212)

A direct order for world domination may not be in the Quoran, but in union with ahadith and clerics the message of world domination is being understood and acted upon by followers of Islam like Maj. Nidal Hassan.

"All the Muslims I have spoken to in private and who are well known to me neither agree with anything Nidal espoused, nor the actions he engaged in." -- Abdullah Mikahil

That would be nice, if only we could

1) believe Abdullah Mikahil

then

2) believe the other Muslims about whose views he is putatively reporting.

Unfortunately, we do not have sufficient rational reasons to do either.

Just came upon verses from both the Koran and Hadith about violent jihad against non-Muslims.

From the Koran.

"008.012
YUSUFALI: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

008.013
YUSUFALI: This because they contended against Allah and His Messenger: If any contend against Allah and His Messenger, Allah is strict in punishment.

008.060
YUSUFALI: Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.

009.073
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.

From the Hadiths.

Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Book 52:
Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad)

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 41:

Narrated Abdullah bin Masud:

I asked Allah's Apostle, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the best deed?" He replied, "To offer the prayers at their early stated fixed times." I asked, "What is next in goodness?" He replied, "To be good and dutiful to your parents." I further asked, what is next in goodness?" He replied, "To participate in Jihad in Allah's Cause." I did not ask Allah's Apostle anymore and if I had asked him more, he would have told me more.

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 50:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

The Prophet said, "A single endeavor (of fighting) in Allah's Cause in the forenoon or in the afternoon is better than the world and whatever is in it."

Wildjew,

You are taking quite a bit of license with your opinions, remember, these are yours, and in my belief not the position of God.

Solomon had how many wives, in your tradition?

David had how many wives, in your tradition?

In our faith we believe in the hadiths that relay that each of these prophets had ten times as many wives as Mohammad.

We think nothing ill of them for it, as it was their license to do as such from God. In the Bible when the Israelites insisted on having a king they were warned that kings would take their daughters (plural) to wife and task them greatly.

There was a Prophet who had no wife, as of yet, and some with one, two, some more, and there are many thousands of Prophets we are not informed of that we know nothing about.

I feel that your arguement has no foundation if you consdier the Prophets as a whole instead of singling out one and trying to demonize his actions when they were equivalent to those of many of his peers, other Prophets.

Peace
Abdullah

I am with previous posters who do not believe Maj Hasan was pathological. He was certainly sane, but overwhelmed by mysticism. I believe Islam shares the intolerance of all cults. Islam considers any unbeliever guilty and worthy of death for rejecting Allah/Mohammed. Hasan's PowerPoint presentation is orthodox Islam taught in every mosque.
This is the normative stuff of hate against infidels, love for 'brother' Muslims, al-walaa wal-baraa, etc. Because infidels are guilty scum, they must be punished and purged from the earth which is owned by Mohammed and his successors (='caliphs' in Arabic). The cult can be defeated if (like jurymen) they can be led to have one, substantial, reasonable doubt. One doubt will be enough to stop them from taking action as Dr. Death Hasan did.







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