For what may be the first time ever, a mainstream media outlet discusses the phenomenon of Islamic honor killings with a modicum of accuracy: "Muslim unrest hits US homes," by Maureen Callahan for the New York Post, November 1:
In what may be the first recorded instance of a Muslim wife attempting to murder her husband for not being pious enough, a Staten Island woman was charged this week with attempted murder, assault and criminal possession of a weapon. Rabia Sarwar, a 37-year-old Muslim, said she did it because her husband, a 41-year-old Pakistani native, enjoyed booze and pork and wanted her to dress in revealing clothes. (She held fabric over her face and threw a shawl over her head before leaving court on Thursday.)While the Sarwar case is sensational by dint of the role-reversal and the method of attempted murder (throat-slitting), it's also pedestrian: Over the past two years, there have been about a dozen attempted or successful honor killings committed in the US.
Last week in Arizona, an Iraqi-born man tried to kill his 20-year-old daughter because she wanted out of her arranged marriage; he escaped.
In July, a 17-year-old named Rifqa Bary ran away from home because, she said, her Muslim family would literally kill her for converting to Christianity. (She has been ordered by a Florida court to return to her home state of Ohio, where she will appear before another judge.)
So: Why is there such a recent spate of honor killings in America? What does it mean when a woman tries to exact the same vengeance that's been wreaked upon her gender by men for centuries?
"This is not a reverse honor-killing -- it's martyrdom," says Islamic apostate and activist Ayaan Hirsi Ali, herself the target of death threats. "It's a ticket for heaven for her, to clear her books. The only exception that's made for a wife or daughter to disobey her husband or father is if he forces her to do something that's un-Islamic. This is a message to other Muslims: 'This man is defying God. What am I supposed to do?'"
"The vast majority of honor killings do appear to be cases where there is some attempt to violate or leave [Muslim] cultural norms," says David Bryan Cook, associate professor of religious studies at Rice University. "They've been going on in the US and Britain for a number of years, but in the recent past they've gotten a lot more publicity."...
Some believe that the sheer vastness of the US has kept such incidents largely off the radar. "We've not been seeing it yet because our country's so big," says Amil Imani, who was born in Iran but raised in the US, and is the founder of Former Muslims United.
He points to the recent killing of a radical imam in Michigan, who hoped to carve out a separate Islamist state in the Midwest, as evidence that America has more to worry about than it may be aware. "Look at what is going on in England, which is almost identical to our culture," he says. "Stealth jihad is happening in America before our eyes."
Does Hirsi agree with this assessment?
"Oh yes, oh yes," she says.
"Believe me. Yes. The kind of American Muslim you're seeing now is changing -- not because America is changing, but because the world is. Someone from Pakistan is coming here not for freedom, but to escape a horrible situation. [Once here], they are being radicalized."
Imani also believes that the fear and loathing of the West tends to be a generational thing; kids born and raised in America by Muslim immigrants tend to reject such orthodoxy, while older Muslims embrace it.
"In the privacy of their home, Muslim parents will call every American woman a prostitute, every man corrupt," Imani says. "People who are 20 and over, who have lived in Muslim countries -- they cannot handle American culture. This case is very new, very rare. But you haven't seen anything yet."
No doubt about that.
I am surprised that thousands of Muslim wives haven't attempted to murder their husbands, given the way Muslim barrows treat their women.
Look at what is going on in England, which is almost identical to our culture
I would argue that point. I was born and lived in the U.K. for 30 years, Germany for 4 years the U.S. for the past 14 and I wouldn't say they are 'almost identical' from anything but a cursory examination.
The moslem infestation is so much further along in the U.K. that this is likely to skew any data on honor killings. I'm sure political correctness has made a lot of U.K. killings appear as if they were merely family disagreements.
We can beat this islamic push for domination, but it will take a stiffer resolve than a lot of people are capable of. 'Spirit of the Blitz' types needed now more than ever.
Oh Robert, you're completely misguided. There are no honour killings, the right politically correct term is "family dramas". You can watch them on every American and European sitcom. This happens every day all over the Western world. The slight difference to Western family dramas is the fact that Western family dramas are never premaditated, but Islamic honour killings are always enacted by the family council. But this is of no importance. Mohammedans cherish the same values as we do, don't they?
I'm reading a very interesting book right now, "Anti-Muslim Racism", an oxymoron. I'll let you know.
The tide will have turned when an article like this appear in the New York Times.
"Imani also believes that the fear and loathing of the West tends to be a generational thing; kids born and raised in America by Muslim immigrants tend to reject such orthodoxy, while older Muslims embrace it."
I am not surprised that Muslim "youths" learn these prejudices from their parents. On the other hand, I thought the first generation immigrants were the hard-working, law-abiding types, enjoying their new found freedom in the USA. The new generation of slackers may not appreciate how much better life is in the West. Most of the riots are blamed on "youths" of unknown religion.
I believe there is a vast Muslim conspiracy to conquer all western countries..one inch at a time...
““We’ve not been seeing it yet because our country’s so big,” says Amil Imani, who was born in Iran but raised in the US, and is the founder of Former Muslims United.”
Aside from the growing number of magnifying glasses upon islam by we commentators and sites such as JW is the overall decline in the murder rate in the US. From 2000 to 2005, it was holding steady at about 5.5 per 100 000. In 2008 it went down to 4.3.
The more honour killings are spoken of for what they are, murder in the name of islam and not some obscure Klingon ritual, more likely it will become an acceptable category, and hopefully become a magnet drawing the kind of attention stealth jihadists don’t want; not only from the law, but from society as well.
Sorry tanstaafl, it’s the NY Post, not the Times. The Post is more of a tabloid than a newspaper. The latter being the Times. But it is still a tide turner.
Two comments. One has to wonder about all the beatings and mental abuse towards women by Muslim men, done in the name of religion, which do not rise to a mortal threat but which are still disgusting and tragic in their own right. Also, I remain optimistic that as the light of truth is shined more and more upon Islam, revulsion towards it will increase and, best of all, many Muslims, particularly women, will just leave Islam forever.
Yes, one might accuse me of wishful thinking but I truly believe Islam is doomed eventually. It's too repressive and too stupid to continue in the modern world for all that much longer as a major religion which is to be honored as much as any other major faith is. A hundred years from now Islam will largely be an anachronism, a religion that had a life span about half that of the ancient Egyptian faith.
The mohammedan infestation of Germany is so bad that we meanwhile have an honor-killing (aka family approved halal-butcher) almost every week. Americans, be wary. This is how it started in Europe.
As newspapers, politics, police et.al. refuse to admit (or are forbidden to talk about)the murderous problem, concerned citizens try to keep an eye on the numbers (Ehrenmord means Honor-Killing):
http://www.ehrenmord.de/doku/doku.php
Even though it is German, you can easily navigate: On the right you find the year. Just klick it and you get the kills by name and location. These are only the cases officially made public (media, police reports). There are hundreds more, kept in the dark, mostly disguised as "accidents".
A dozen in 2 years is about one honor killing every other month. If we try harder, we can reach Germany's level, of a little more than 1 per month, at least in 2005 it was reaching that level. I doubt the incidence has gone down since then. Germany is more PC MC than the US (if that's conceivable, but yes, within the West, some countries are more, or slightly less, PC MC than others -- e.g., Australia is more PC MC than Italy; etc., which on the other hand doesn't mean Italy is to be let off the hook for PC MC stupidity), since its PC MC was historically reinforced with the added massively sociopsychological impetus of the "Never Again" credo in the post-Holocaust era -- which is perfectly fine and laudable, except when the respect for Jews enshrined in that credo gets transferred onto a newly perceived and more privileged ethnic group: Muslims. That has happened throughout Europe, and likely acutely in Germany among the PC MCs, explaining the promiscuous immigration policy over the decades, opening their gates to all manner of Turkish and other Islamic barbarian.
Anyway, here's one article on German honor killings:
Precise statistics on how many women die every year in such honor killings are hard to come by, as many crimes are never reported, said Myria Boehmecke of the Tuebingen-based women's group Terre des Femmes which, among other things, tries to protect Muslim girls and women from oppressive families. The Turkish women's organization Papatya has documented 40 instances of honor killings in Germany since 1996. Examples include a Darmstadt girl whose two brothers pummelled her to death with a hockey stick in April 2004 after they learned she had slept with her boyfriend. In Augsburg in April, a man stabbed his wife and 7-year-old daughter because the wife was having an affair. In December 2003, a Tuebingen father strangled his 16-year-old daughter and threw her body into a lake because she had a boyfriend. Bullets, knives, even axes and gasoline are the weapons of choice. The crime list compiled by Papatya is an exercise in horror. And the sad part, said Boehmecke, is that it is far from complete. "We'll never really know how many victims there are. Too often these crimes go unreported."
In many cases, fathers -- and sometimes even mothers -- single out their youngest son to do the killing, Boehmecke said, "because they know minors will get lighter sentences from German judges." In some cases, these boys are revered by their community and fellow inmates as "honor heroes"
http://www.rickross.com/reference/islamic/islamic67.html
In counting attempts, one needs to remember that, because of advances in medical technology and emergency medicine, many people who would have died in some sort of brutal attack survive because they get good treatment soon enough.
That's why murder stats show a decrease, while Aggravated Assault has sky-rocketed over the last five years or so.
So, my guess is there are many more honor killing attempts than are being reported, though this article is great at pulling back the veil, as it were.
Case in point: the AZ dirtbag who ran over his daughter is being charged with Agg Assault, not Attempted Murder.
How many more honour killings,attempted honour killings and foiled (or successful) terror plots,and useless time-wasting lawfare cases will it take (50 a month?) before western governments finally get it that oil and water just doesn't mix? Don't bother I already know. When it's too late. Hopefully SOMEBODY with the guts to "do the right thing" will arise from their grave to do just that.
Perhaps someone like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_III_the_Impaler
Well it is Hallow'een isn't it,and he did defeat the Turks. Something to think about when things really get out of hand, as in ten or less years from now.
"Over the past two years, there have been about a dozen attempted or successful honor killings committed in the US" -- headline
I, too, wonder what the actual numbers are. As mentioned by several posters above it's likely that they are much greater than two dozen. And as Amil Amani is predicting, you ain't seen nothing yet. The numbers will almost certainly increase in the future. It may take a while before there is a story in the MSM that addresses this problem frankly and honestly, without whitewashing and excuse making. In the meantime, this NY Post story is at least a journalistic step in the right direction. But it would have been better if it had been in a more respectable paper.
Wellington, I believe the stupidity, ignorance, and violence of the Muslim religion is precisely the thing that will do in the stupidity, ignorance, and violence of the post-Christian West. Only after a few European countries fall under sharia will America wake up.
You could very well be right, Kepha. I actually don't see any Western nation being fully put under Sharia but in annoying bits and pieces, yes I do. And the post-Christian West is rather an idiot in large part because it chucked Christianity and its ethical code as the major religion and moral barometer of its own civilization (far more is Western Europe culpable here than America; yet something else modern Europeans, way too sophisticated for their own good, have gotten wrong). Reasonable minds can debate whether Christianity is the true religion and is ultimately in accord with final realities, but it formulated a magnicent ethical system (not debatable I would argue) which, when combined with democracy, capitalism and enlightened Western legal systems (e.g., Common Law or Roman Law) produced the best of all possible worlds.
Historical ignorance, mindless animosity to all religion (and I say this as one who is privately a religious skeptic), Western technology which has created a life style too easily taken for granted (e.g., the modern supermarket which Neanderthal Man, even an ancient Roman or an eighteenth-century American would deem practically heaven on earth) and a dearth of understanding that with freedom must come a sense of responsibility all have contributed to a multi-natured vacuum that the decrepit, parasitical Islamic world has temporarily taken advantage of. This will eventually change but not before much unnecessary tragedy occurs because of a combination of Western mindlessness and Islamic totalitarian designs. Ah, man never seems to learn.
If you really want to do something about this, come to the rally for Rifqa in Columbus, OH on November 16th.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/11/november-16th-rally-for-rifqa.html
The more the American people stand up for the rights of our girls (in this case, a Muslim lass who converted to Christianity, and we defend her right to do so,) the more people will wake up and the more people will say, "Hey wait a minute, we don't tolerate that kind of nonsense around here." Screw, "Well we don't want to upset Muslims as it is their culture, after all." B.S.!
I agree supporting Rifqa is extremely important for her as well as for our way of life in America. CAIR understands
this that is why they are throwing a tremendous amount of
resources to defeat Rifqa. This case is the first real
battle between the American culture, values and rights vs Islam.The main problems of Islam is the same for every western country. The Muslims even the moderate Muslims,
(if they exist) is that they do not want to assimilate They feel that the country they enter should bend there laws and customs to accommodate them. Until of course they become powerful enough to force you to obey the customs and
laws of Islam or until they can drive you out of the lands
of your ancestors. It is happening now in Europe, Africa and
in parts of Asia. It has happened throughout history. The
Christians were in Syria, Lebanon , Egypt , Turkey,
Bethlehem and ect... long before the Muslims came. When the
Muslims came they systematically destroyed those religions.
Rifqa has become the catalyst for the 1st battle. There will
be many more to come.Its a good idea to take note that
so far we have not had many high profile allies in this fight and the press has been down right anti Christian
borders on being pro Muslim. Even Fox has not help us at
all, which surprised and disappointed me.Maybe the fact
that Saudi Arabia owns close to 20% of Fox's stock is
getting more than a return on their invest then just money.
Re. stats on 'honor' murders, which as our friend and contributor here, Henrik R Clausen says, are 'message crimes', atrocities committed in order to send a 'message', that is, a 'you better submit' message to all the females in the Ummah:
I have a couple of interesting data points to share.
First, from Australian journalist Geraldine Brooks' little book, 'Nine Parts of Desire' (1994), which is in many ways 'soft' on Islam, but nevertheless never quite lets go of common sense.
In her final chapter, 'Beware of the Dogma', she recounts the trial, in London, of a Sudanese Muslim man who murdered his Sudanese Muslim wife after discovering that she intended to 1. divorce him 2. marry a non-Muslim Englishman with whom she had fallen in love.
Brooks, who by then had spent some time inside various parts of dar al Islam talking with women and observing (and never entirely allowing herself to be fooled) comments that the English jury were ill-equipped to realize that this murder was NOT what it would have been in an English setting (man kills wife who is in love with another guy); NOT a 'crime of passion', but a cold-blooded execution.
And she adds this intriguing piece of information (remember, this is from the early 1990s):
"In a British study of family violence completed not long after Afaf's death, the researchers found that women married to men of Muslim background were eight times more likely to be killed by their spouses than any other women in Britain". [Nine Parts of Desire, 1994, p. 231].
Now for my second data point, from the Netherlands. One of the first things Ayaan Hirsi Ali tried to do, during her short career in Dutch politics, was to get the police "to register how many honor killings took place in Holland each year".
She reports, "After weeks of wheeling and dealing...the minister of justice, Piet Donner, did agree to a motion that I had concocted with the Labor Party, but he said he wanted to try it out first, as a 'pilot project', in *just two police regions*.
"Months later, when the results were announced, Parliament was shocked, and I felt a huge groundswell of support in the country. *Between October 2004 and May 2005, eleven Muslim girls were killed by their families in just those two regions* {my emphasis - dda}, (there are twenty-five such regions in Holland).
"After that, people stopped telling me I was exaggerating". (Infidel, paperback edition, chapter 16, 'Politics', p. 309).
So - in early 1990s UK, a study on family violence concluded women married to Muslim men were *eight times more likely* to be killed by their husbands, than any other women in Britain.
And in 2005, the Dutch found that in just eight months, in just two of their 25 police regions eleven Muslim girls were killed by their families. (Of course, it would be worth knowing which regions, exactly - I don't imagine each of the 25 police regions is inhabited by a similar number of Mohammedans; Ayaan doesn't name the two regions where the record was, for research purposes, kept, nor tell us whether they were particularly heavily Islamified regions...or not).
It might be interesting for UK jihadwatchers to try to track down the 'study' that Brooks refers to - she doesn't name the researchers or the institution that carried it out, but we know its results became public after Afaf's death in 1991 or 1992, and before Brooks' book was published in 1994. Patrick and Rosemary Sookhdeo might have the details; it's the kind of thing Mrs Sookhdeo might have read as 'background' when she was doing her thesis on Muslim women in Britain in the late 1990s.
Ya we also had a lady kill her children because she wanted them to go to heven. Should probobly start out a "Mercy Killings" group to.
I am a 14 year old Arab American MUSLIM and I am proud of it. Now if you people thing you know more then a 14 year old, please step up to the plate and try to prove that there is such a thing as an "Honor Killing" in islam.
The Only instance where an "Honor killing" in islam is if a Married man or women comits adultary and their are four (4) witneces. Anything elses is probobly insanity. I seriously dout that anywhere in the bible (old or new testiment) does it say that you should kill your kids so they can go to heven. But I might be wrong. I mean, I'v only read the bible through like what, 5 times.
Well Have a nice day, look forward to talking to you
Muhammad
EXCELLENT post, Wellington. Many times you've articulated, so much better than I could myself, what I think and feel.
'Historical ignorance, mindless animosity to all religion (and I say this as one who is privately a religious skeptic), Western technology which has created a life style too easily taken for granted (e.g., the modern supermarket which Neanderthal Man, even an ancient Roman or an eighteenth-century American would deem practically heaven on earth) and a dearth of understanding that with freedom must come a sense of responsibility all have contributed to a multi-natured vacuum that the decrepit, parasitical Islamic world has temporarily taken advantage of.
This paragraph describes, in a nutshell, how I view what's going on in today's world. Even the "mindless animosity to all religion", and I'm an atheist. It disturbs me to see the lack of understanding of the role Christianity and Judaism played in the building of Western culture.
Wellington's analysis is good, Vee, but one crucial element is missing: he lists all the bad things about the modern West that have given Muslims traction for the insinuation of their jihad -- but he doesn't mention the good things about the modern West that, paradoxically, also have been enabling Muslims. Were it not for the good symbiotically (con)fused with the deleterious -- for the PC MC paradigm is both -- PC MC would not have become mainstream and dominant throughout the West. The remedy, then, will be that much more complicated, because it will require extrication of the good out of the bad, like surgery that has to take care not to damage good tissue and good organs as it cuts out the cancer.`
Proveit | November 1, 2009 10:55 PM | Reply
"Now if you people thing you know more then a 14 year old, please step up to the plate and try to prove that there is such a thing as an "Honor Killing" in islam."
"The Only instance where an "Honor killing" in islam is if a Married man or women comits adultary and their are four (4) witneces."
So, you dare anyone to prove that there is such a thing as honor-killing in Islam and then immediately go on to provide an example yourself?
Stay in school.
That dosent relate to anything of which you people call a "Honor Killing". Mabey you should have stayed in school
Proveit: There comes a time early in everyone's life when he/she becomes aware of the difference between the realities of the world and the comfortable and comforting views of their childhood. It appears you may be entering that period, so you will be confronted by many things that challenge the beliefs that you grew up with in your family and support group. This is a painful experience for anyone, but it is part of growing up.
Since you are Muslim, you will find many of the things we discuss here to be shocking and perhaps insulting, as surely you will have already learned from your peers and perhaps also your family. But if you stick with it, over time you will come to learn some things about how your religion is viewed by most of the non-Muslim world, as well as a history of the world that is radically different from what you may have learned up to now. You will not hear these matters discussed in your local masjid, except perhaps only in the form of denunciations. But if you approach these matters with an open mind you'll find there is a better way to make ones way in the world than within the confines of Islam. And if you ever decide to leave, be careful. Good luck.
I am willing to come with an open mind as long as you also agree to come at me with one.
I am not saying you people are crazy, just alittle short of facts. All I want is ONE (1) verse from the quran that says to kill teen age girls that go astray. If you can show me this I will come at you with an even more open mind. However, if you cannot prove this I would appriciate if you also think about my position. There comes a time in a persions life when they look back at their life and think "what have I ocomplished" and "are all my idiolages and pholosaphys correct". You are nearing that time in your life East. I think you should actualy go to a mosk for once, talk to a muslim man or woman face to face, figure out how we realy think. I do not beleve you are being fair telling me to come at this with an open mind while yours is locked
You are nearing that time in your life East. I think you should actualy go to a mosk for once, talk to a muslim man or woman face to face, figure out how we realy think. I do not beleve you are being fair telling me to come at this with an open mind while yours is locked
Read the articles posted on this website. Go way, way back through the archives. Islamic honor killings are a time-honored tradition and "teen-aged" girls are not the only targets. Islam does not specifically sanction honor killings or mention them by name but islam permits parents to murder their children and children's children with impunity. You can read the testimony of muslims who have committed these heinous crimes and see for yourself that they believe their crimes are "good deeds" condoned by allah, and that nothing is more important than restoring family "honor" when it has been tainted by the behavior of a female family member.
In predominately islamic countries, this practice is condoned by society and the legal system and even when the guilty parties confess their crimes, punishment is nominal. In some islamic countries, honor killings are virtually ignored by the authorities. If sharia judges don't consider them criminal acts, apparently islam condones them.
Many girls who are the victims of rape become victims of honor killings. When they lose their virginity, they become worthless objects of shame although they are victims of violent crime themselves. Sorry you don't want to believe the truth about your religion but the facts are out there; BELIEVE THEM!
Mr. Robert Spencer, the owner of this website, is an islamic scholar who has written numerous books about islam, muhammad, the qur'an, and islamic history. I can assure you that the people who frequent this site are not ignorant or misinformed about islam. You could be a provocateur from CAIR or the muslim brotherhood for all I know but if you're really a young muslim, you're the ignorant one, not us.
Honor killings did not originate in islam but muslims have engaged in this barbaric practice for centuries and are the only people in the civilized world who continue to murder close family members to restore family "honor". The savages who began this hideous tradition abandoned it long ago but among muslims, it is alive and thriving. The laws of Western countries in which many muslims now live do not seem to deter it. It is not only socially acceptable in muslim societies, it is a social imperative to avoid being ostracized by the islamic community. Sick, sick, sick!!!
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What's their [sic] to prove? I would agree that the term "honor killings" is more than a bit misplaced. moHAMedan murder would be more fitting, don't you think?
PS. Bad spelling is the hallmark of a feeble mind.
For someone claiming to have read the Holy Bible [Peace be upon it] - five times, whoa! - you should really be able to express yourself a bit better.
.
"Now if you people thing you know more then a 14 year old, please step up to the plate and try to prove that there is such a thing as an "Honor Killing" in islam."
--
Personally I don't think you've got what it takes, but.. you could always try to audition for this little show here:
http://www.fox.com/areyousmarter/
Maybe you'll become the second-ever moHAMedan Nobel Prize winner someday. Sorry, Mr. Obama beat you to it, though I don't think the Peace prizes really count, do you?
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