And we're going to see more, because -- as I also said to Dorell -- no one is challenging the Muslim community on their bland evasions of responsibility, or calling upon them to do anything about the roots of this phenomenon in Islam. I sent Dorell the legal justification for honor killing in Islamic law -- the stipulation that there is no penalty for a father who kills a child -- but somehow that didn't make the cut. "'Honor killings' in USA raise concerns," by Oren Dorell in USA TODAY, November 30 (thanks to James):
Muslim immigrant men have been accused of six "honor killings" in the United States in the past two years, prompting concerns that the Muslim community and police need to do more to stop such crimes."There is broad support and acceptance of this idea in Islam, and we're going to see it more and more in the United States," says Robert Spencer, who has trained FBI and military authorities on Islam and founded Jihad Watch, which monitors radical Islam.
Honor killings are generally defined as murders of women by relatives who claim the victim brought shame to the family. Thousands of such killings have occurred in Muslim countries such as Egypt, Jordan, Pakistan and Palestinian territories, according to the World Health Organization.
Some clerics and even lawmakers in these countries have said families have the right to commit honor killings as a way of maintaining values, according to an analysis by Yotam Feldner in the journal Middle East Quarterly.
In the USA, police allege the latest "honor killing" was that of Noor Almaleki, 20, who died Nov. 2 after she and her boyfriend's mother were run over in a Peoria, Ariz., parking lot. Prosecutors charged Almaleki's father, Faleh Almaleki, with murder, saying the Iraqi immigrant was upset that his daughter rejected a husband she married in Iraq and moved in with an American.
"By his own admission, this was an intentional act, and the reason was that his daughter had brought shame on him and his family," says Maricopa County prosecutor Stephanie Low, according to The Arizona Republic....
There follows the usual denial and evasion from a Muslim leader, this time Salam al-Marayati of MPAC, but in something we don't usually see in a mainstream media story, he doesn't get the last word.
We know that this is a primitive desert religion - why do we even allow it in America? Where are the ACLU, Women's groups, child abuse groups, family courts? Why are they not speaking out? Or are Nativity scenes an easier target for them to attack? Cowards all!
"Muslim immigrant men have been accused of six "honor killings" in the United States in the past two years, prompting concerns that the Muslim community and police need to do more to stop such crimes"
Robert, if you read this, I would like to ask: as you like to tie Muslim "honour killings" directly to Islamic law (hence invoke umdat al-salik) by recalling that the principle of qisas retaliation is not valid in the case of murdering a son/daughter, how do you explain murdering wives, and members from the other family (e.g. in the example here, the mother of the boyfriend too). Please enlighten us as to how Islamic law can provide an explanation for these.
On another note, have you heard of American fathers that are not Muslims murdering their wives and children? Six honour killings in two years is probably only slightly higher than the general population. Just this year, an over possessive father murdered his wife, his 7 year old son and his four daughters in Washington State - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1167691/Controlling-father-kills-son-daughters-wife-leaving-man.html
In Los Angeles earlier this year another man suffering from depression (why is widespread chronic depression not thought to be a "result of Judeo-Christian Western civilisation"?) murdered his wife, himself and five young children - http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-01-27-murder-suicide_N.htm
"Fathers who kill their children" are common in the West. In fact in Britain about half of the children under 16 killed each year (about a hundred) are killed by their parents. Mental illness, depression, despondency etc. are normally the explanations, but should not the "Western community do more to stop these crimes?"
Of course, more denial that Islam and the entire Islamic frame of mind are the root causes of killings of these types will remain standard fair and inquiries aplenty will be made trying to discern why a father or brother would do such a thing to a female family member when the reasons will be staring law enforcement authorities in the face. Just look at all the silly rationales that have already been proffered for Nidal Hasan's killings and maimings. Nonetheless, it is sinking more and more into the collective consciousness of America that there's something wrong with the entire religion of Islam. At least this, to the extent that it's occurring, is a positive.
Yeah, yeah, Muzzamil, we know...'They all do it'...'Why single out Islam?
For some, immigration is the 'environmental cure'...The problem is that the 'environmental cure' doesn't work because you have to bring yourself with you when you immigrate.
M "Fathers who kill their children" are common in the West.
That's a really wide brush you're painting with...The word 'common' is not accurate...It is not 'common' for fathers in the west to kill their children...It does happen but it is 'not common'...And when it does it is usually due to drugs and alcohol, and not religion...and nobody's 'honor' has much to do with it...Even if true, Mahoundian 'honor killings' just add more dead bodies to the pile...I don't think the rest of us need those additions, and would prefer that immigrants leave those behaviors behind or stay out...Or go home...Stay out is better...
Throughout history family members have killed other family members, only in Islam has there ever been justification....
The argument, "But other people do it," has absolutely no logic. Other people doing it does not negate the fact that THESE people do it. Other people doing it for *different* reasons does not cancel out the fact that THESE people do it for religious reasons. Other people doing it does not make THESE people doing it less wrong or less abhorrent. The old "other people do it" argument is simply a deflection of responsibility.
Mahoundians keep using the lame excuse that 'every body does it'...Whatever the complaint, 'Jews, Christians, and other kufr's do it too'...
Ever watch a bee dodge raindrops? Ever watch a duck sit in water and not get wet? Ever watch Bill Clinton waving his finger saying, 'I did not have sex with 'that' woman'...? Ever watch Muzzamil, Abdullah, and others practicing their taqiyya?...In a way they are like ducks in a shooting gallery, they keep popping up, just to get shot down...
OT:
Why was the article about the conspiracy to attack the Christian communities in Turkey by the military removed from this site? Was it proven to be a false rumor?
http://www.aina.org/news/20091129124643.htm
http://europenews.dk/
Read it and weep.
Only 6 in 2 years???? - Why, that's only 1 every 4 months. Back to sleep... ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
This is unbelievable that in the U.S. honor killing is done. Parents killing their own daughters and brothers killing the own sisters in the name of honor. This is as good human sacrifice.
Is this for real??? Why hasn't this shown up anywhere else?
As for "paying a fine" - I wonder if this won't morph into a "burka license?" Getting taken in for ID verification via a several hour-long process would seem to be needed as well. That way, any quick trip to the halal market would risk turning into an all-day ordeal, **every time.**
I see that our friend "Malt O' Meal" is back, or at least someone using that account's name. Also, as before, he drags in an example from a U.K. paper to make a point about U.S. honor killings. But, even in the Mail article no religious motivation is given. In addition, our friend might have best not mentioned this case:"Candy Johnson, an aunt of the mother, described Harrison as a strict, controlling husband and father who didn't allow his wife to make decisions without asking him first.'My niece has been so controlled from the time she was young,' Johnson said, adding that Harrison had first gotten Angela pregnant when she was just 13 years old." It sounds like a very "Islamic" relationship"
In the USA today article, there was no religious movtivation given by the murderer as justification: " A father apparently distraught over job problems shot and killed his wife and five young children and then committed suicide at their home Tuesday, police said. The victims included two sets of twins." There is no there there.
Malt O' Meal really just reinforces the impression that the Moslem community in the United State and elsewhere just engages in distraction and denial in public, while secretly or not so secretly condoning such practices.
I'm sure the figure is much higher if you include the 'accidents' that were never brought to trial, the murders that were never tagged as 'Honor Killings' and so on.
If moslem religion and culture is so superior how have they not been able to find an alternative to killing their unruly wives and children? Only allah knows, right?
Robert, I heard this report on the news as I was going in to work, and on a generally liberal channel. Kudos.
"By his own admission, this was an intentional act, and the reason was that his daughter had brought shame on him and his family," says Maricopa County prosecutor Stephanie Low, according to The Arizona Republic....
muzammmil,
I have yet to hear of a Christian, Jew, atheist, or devil worshipper killing a close female family member because she brought shame on the family. THIS PERVERSION IS EXCLUSIVE TO MUSLIMS. Why won't you admit it? Why won't you acknowledge that in the average islamic hellhole, honor killings are virtually ignored and unpunished and are encouraged by society.
Yes, domestic violence is found in all societies but it is RARE for people in Western societies to kill their own children and it is UNHEARD OF for Western people to kill female relatives to restore family honor. In the West, family honor is not hinged on the virtue/virginity of its females. It is common knowledge that the muslim female is chattel, a bit more valuable than livestock, and the value of a muslim female is predicated on her virginity/virtue. When a muslim female is raped or loses her virginity, she becomes a liability, a source of shame, and she also becomes as worthless as a lame horse because she is not marriageable. If she can't be sold to another owner/husband, she will only be a burden, and a shameful one at that. And muslims have a very tidy solution for that problem: they dispose of the worthless, expendable female just like they would dispose of a lame horse. Quite often, mothers participate in the brutal homicides of their own daughters and then run tell the neighbors that little Jezebel is dead so please be nice to her daddy when he goes to the mosque to grovel to allah, and can they please resume their former position in the pecking order of islamic society. Sick, perverted, disgusting!
Honor killings did not originate in islam and they are not specifically discussed in the qur'an or hadiths but they are an accepted, time honored tradition in all islamic societies. They are not condemned or forbidden by the ulama and offenders are treated very leniently by the courts. Check the stats from Palestine, Pakistan, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Turkey. Thousands of women are the victims of honor killings in islamic countries every year. Thousands of women are the victims of domestic violence in islamic countries every year, usually beaten to a pulp by their macho husbands because islam says it's fine for men to beat their wives. If they beat them to death, that's ok too. Domestic violence and honor killings ARE NOT THE SAME THING!!!! At least we have laws in the West to protect women from spousal abuse; muslim women are not so fortunate.
Creative semantics and equivocation cannot transform a cultural/religious anomaly into a crime of passion, criminal assault, gratuitous violence and cruelty, or standard domestic violence. It is a unique and malevolent offense against women practiced almost entirely by muslims.
Phyllis Chesler did a really excellent article, not long ago.
http://www.meforum.org/article/2067
She analyses a great many cases and shows clearly that 'honor murders' as carried out mostly by Muslims [though there have been instances in Hindu and Sikh families - I would guess that they may have absorbed this particular evil practice through centuries of contact with Islam] are distinctively different from the usual types of family violence (spousal abuse or murder, and child abuse) that occur in the West.
One of the points she makes is this, citing in part the work of Lenore Walker, author of 'The Battered Woman Syndrome'.
"Walker confirmed the difference between the victim-perpetrator in honor killings and ordinary domestic violence:
"In ordinary domestic violence involving Westerners, it is rare for brothers to kill sisters or for male cousins to kill female cousins. "
'And while child abuse occurs in which fathers may kill infants and children, it is very rare for Western fathers to kill teenage daughters."
Muza, Muza, Muza. You see, we don't try to explain it away or understand it because we know it is wrong. But don't worry it won't be long until Obama, Pelosi, and Reed impliment an honor killing tax just like the freedom killing and economy killing taxes we already have.
A great big Jizya back at ya.