Misunderstanding Islam on a global scale. "Breaking News: Pakistan Reportedly Detains Five D.C.-Area Muslims on Suspicion of Terror," from IPT News, December 8, updated December 9 (thanks to Axel):
A Pakistani newspaper reports the arrest of five foreign nationals after a raid in a town called Sargodha. The raid took place at the home of a member of the Jaish-e-Muhammad, a Pakistani movement designated as a terrorist group by the U.S. Treasury Department in 2001.According to the report, "The DPO told that these people had been living in Sargodha since Nov 30 and it was quite a possibility that they were engaged in acts of terrorism." It names the five as Ahmed Abdullah, Waqar Hassan Khan, Eman Hassan, Yasir and Rami Zamzam and describes them as two Yemenis, an Egyptian, a Swede and a U.S.-born Pakistani.
December 8: Federal investigators are searching for a Howard University dental student and four other missing Muslim men reported missing from the Washington, D.C. area, the Investigative Project on Terrorism (IPT) has learned. There is concern they may have been sent abroad to train for jihad. The five were last seen November 29.
The identities of two of the missing men, Howard student Ramy Zamzam and Waqar Khan, have been mentioned in online postings, including a Facebook page that was set up Monday for friends to offer their support. Some of those pages, however, appear restricted to friends and associates.
It is not clear where the men are believed to have gone, but an informed source told the IPT that at least one left behind a farewell video.
According to the Facebook and Twitter postings, Zamzam is among the missing. He has been active in the Muslim Students Association, serving as president of the MSA DC Council. A Howard University spokeswoman has not responded to questions from the IPT....
The Muslim Students Association is, of course, a Muslim Brotherhood group. And the Brotherhood is engaged in its own words in a "kind of grand jihad in eliminating and destroying Western civilization from within."
So the president of the MSA DC Council gets arrested in Pakistan at the home of a member of the Jaish-e-Muhammad, a Pakistani movement designated as a terrorist group by the U.S. Treasury Department in 2001.
And WE TRUST MUHAMMADANS?
And we trust MSA?
There was no mention of their religion in the AP report I just read. Only that they were "US citizens". Hmm...
someone had better notify our interfaith folk about the "other side" of MSA ... come to think of it, someone should notify many grassroots political groups of this other side of the MSA....
There are msa students at the local coffee joint. They wear hoodies that say:
"MSA"
then underneath:
"A beliver to another believer is like a brick in the wall.
HADITH"
(it's all code for cult members -- not one word that says MUSLIM or ISLAM)
I notice from their laptop screens that they're "hard at work studying...(you guessed it) chemistry and engineering. They've got the cold, dead, fish look of the true cultist.
I leave my laptop in full view with JIHAD WATCH on the screen.
"Rami Zamzam"
That would be like "Henry Golgotha" or "C. F. Galilee."
They were arrested and detained on suspected terrorist activity....Regardless of what religion, terrorist are terrorist, muslims or not. I just hope their proven to be terrorist in a fair trial and have their immigration papers revoked so they cannot travel. Also save the U S tax payers from footing the bill and they have to stay in the other Country....
"Howard University dental student"
Clearly his life of poverty and no hope for the future were the root cause of his radicalization.
alwaysknew : Regardless of what religion, terrorist are terrorist, muslims or not.
Yeah, cos there are so many worldwide terrorist attacks by baptist/buddhist/sikh/methodist etc.....
[rolls_eyes]
Until we can equate 'islam' with 'cult of death, destruction and subjugation' and stop with this 'merely a few bad apples' nonsense we're going to face a never ending uphill slog.
Here's a simple equation to help: islam = evil
Probably the same place Barack Hussein Obama visited in 1981.
Aside from getting terrorist training is there any other reason for young military aged Muslims to leave the relatively safe confines of Urban America to go to Pakistan?...
CAIR and Hooper were on the case even before they were captured.
U.S. born Pakistani???
They mean a U.S. born American Citizen of Pakistani decent do they not?
Thereby making him a Traitor...
The use of pretty words and fancy phrases running a muck.
"CAIR and Hooper were on the case even before they were captured."
No - they jumped on the bandwagon AFTER it hit the internet - facebook from friends looking for them, then to the IPT, then to the "news" channels, THEN to I.B.A. Pooper at the Cancerous Animal International Reject organization.
From your referenced article - Obligatory shock and surprise:
Samirah Ali, the president of Howard University's Muslim Student Association, said the FBI contacted her last week about Zamzam, and told her he had been missing for a week. Ali said she's known Zamzam for three years and never suspected he would be involved in radical activities. "He's a very nice guy, very cordial, very friendly," Ali said, adding that he has a bubbly personality. "It really caught me off guard."
It's funny how no one, neither associates, friends nor family EVER have an inkling that this "nice" person is harboring homicidal hatred - but they couldn't all be lying, could they?
OT: This sort of dissembling always reminds me of the SNL "Who shot Buckwheat?" skit (expect for the admission of interviewees that they believe the perp actually committed the act). Enjoy @ 3:14 In - http://www.hulu.com/watch/10400/saturday-night-live-john-david-stutts
And we hand the arsonists the matches and wish them a good time... How crazy are we?
I know, I know, I know...THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM.
where there are five, there are more...
"...two Yemenis, an Egyptian, a Swede and a U.S.-born Pakistani."
A Swede Lutheran perhaps? Another member of the LUTEFISK JIHAD?
\sarc off
Islamic Jihadis--who have now infiltrated the West and will do anything and everything to carry out the despicable and cowardly, hateful, and violent acts as prescribed by Islam and their thug in chief prophet Mohammad. Sadly more violence will be committed on innocent non Muslims, from rape, to bombing, to mass murder, to kidnapping and to pedophilia by the Mohammedans.
Perpster wrote:
"Howard University dental student"
Clearly his life of poverty and no hope for the future were the root cause of his radicalization.
......................
Hah! You beat me to the punch!
from the article:
It names the five as Ahmed Abdullah, Waqar Hassan Khan, Eman Hassan, Yasir and Rami Zamzam and describes them as two Yemenis, an Egyptian, a Swede and a U.S.-born Pakistani.
......................
What the Hell is a *U.S.-born Pakistani*? Normally, I would stress that he should just be referred to as "an American"—although "Pakistani Muslim who happens to claim U.S. citizenship" is probably more accurate here.
Same thing with with that "Swede", who is likely "Swedish" in much the same way that Zamzam is American.
"What the Hell is a *U.S.-born Pakistani*?"
In proper English usage, "U.S.-born Pakistani" means an American, born in the U.S., who has moved to Pakistan and taken Pakistani citizenship, just as "Pakistani-born American" means someone born in Pakistan who has immigrated to the U.S. and taken American citrizenship.
However, I doubt that the writer is using the phrase correctly; he likely means an American of Pakistani descent, which isn't the same thing.
And so ignore the country that captured them (Pakistan!) So Pakistan as a whole is misunderstanding Islam? The police too?
"Five Americans are in Pakistani police custody and authorities there are investigating, said S.M. Imran Gardezi, a spokesman for the Pakistani Embassy in Washington, in an interview." http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aEgTBpG4u1a0
Of course, since it itself captured five on Pakistani soil (and not that US captured them), it has to do with "muhammadans"! FBI is still looking for them in the US. Btw, in the same link above, see that CAIR is helping FBI too. Of course, all of this had to not make it in "JihadWatch" report!
Ignore the Pakistan part, blame Muslims and enjoy life!
And so ignore the country that captured them (Pakistan!) So Pakistan as a whole is misunderstanding Islam?...Ignore the Pakistan part, blame Muslims and enjoy life!
You are rambling and need to collect your thoughts before posting. What is your point? That the mere fact that the Pakistan (a muslim nation) detained a few jihadists abrogates (to borrow a concept) all of the heinous proscriptions contained in islam? It does not. Muslims fight and kill other muslims all the time - this is nothing new or special.
If you feel this site is about bashing muslims then continue in your indignant, self-righteous beliefs. I wish you well. However, if I were you, I would pray, wish, hope that islam never becomes dominant in your little neck of the woods. However, if it does, I'm sure your enlightened views would be just enough to guarantee you a place in the islamic circle of friends (as long as you pay the jizya).
The blame goes with the ideology inspiring these terrorists, groups like the MSA and CAIR that harbor the same ideology. Perhaps some leaders in Pakistan are waking up to the fact as they see their countrymen being blown up by the likes of these five that the fundamental roots of Islam is indeed rotted. However, I doubt it. It's more likely the fact that the captured are "Americans" and thus the Pakistanis can exclaim, along with CAIR and the MSA ilk that America harbors its own terrorists given birth by their objections to American foreign policy and not a fundamental understanding of Islam as inspiring their actions.
come join the fun at CNN, we'll see if they post what I have to say ... moderation
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/12/09/live-blog-from-the-anchor-desk-120909/#comments
Consider the possibility that mankind ended up with a religion which is full of pathologies (e.g., death for someone who leaves the faith or a doctrine that equates non-believers with human waste) and unlike any other major faith on earth. Shouldn't the more sapient and knowledgeable element of mankind not only criticize such a religion but conclude that it is as unreformable as Marxism or Nazism? I have to wonder just how much you know about Islam. Reconsider if you have the humility to do so.
P.S. CAIR, as you aver, is helping the FBI? Are you for real? You either suffer from terminal naivety or you are complicit with evil. There's no third option here.
For a comprehensive analysis for the Islamic prescriptions for violent jihad warfare against unbeliever in the Quran, and Hadith go to this link.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101.html
doubt you will post this, because you are obviously less interested in knowledge, and more interested in window dressing.
If you want to try posting ...
http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2009/12/09/live-blog-from-the-anchor-desk-120909/#comments
I sure hope they keep these traitors and subject them to the interrogations they are so famous for. But they'll probably release them to go about their business since the Pakistani army and police are full of Taliban and terrorist sympathizers. If they're wannabe holy warriors aspiring to be martyrs, better there than here. But with our luck, they'll be sent back to the U.S. to proselytize in prison until their million dollar trials and propaganda extravaganzas begin. What is an "American-born Pakistani"? That's a new one, but not surprising.
Yes I have to most definatly agree with you, Also you are right about the others not performing terrorist acts, I guess I should have left that part out "muslims or not" Its pretty obvious they were muslims. My point was terrorist are terrorist regardless..anyway point taken and dont' roll your eyes at me...lol
Yes I have to most definatly agree with you, Also you are right about the others not performing terrorist acts, I guess I should have left that part out "muslims or not" Its pretty obvious they were muslims. My point was terrorist are terrorist regardless..anyway point taken and dont' roll your eyes at me...lol
big-pete: My commment was to the post heading: Misunderstanding Islam on a global scale.
If five misunderstood Islam, then can't anyone see those who caught those 'misunderstanders'? This is nothing new either, except that you wouldn't acknowledge. Or probably they're the Pakistani police is the real 'misunderstander of Islam'(TM)?
Muslims fighting Muslims, sure. But you're speaking as if rest of the world is all in peace. Care to look around? And then do you still say ONLY Muslims are fighting? Care to find which countries have fought most wars since WWII?
I wish you well too. Like I said, you can close your eyes, ignore everything and just focus on the part that pleases your fancy, or care to look around and read from other sources. When you are ready, I can give you sources, both classical and contemporary.
Riddle me this jihad man...
How do you tell a radical, terrorist, islamist from a moderate peaceful muslin?
...
....
....
I don't know; how do you tell them apart?
>>>
>>>
>>>
Good Question!
holy cow, look at the Islamization of Paris
http://www.youtube.com/user/ciceropicas
"Care to find which countries have fought most wars since WWII?"
One assumes that "The Centrist" is ignorant of the inveterate guerilla wars waged by Muslims to the present day -- not only since WWII but for centuries before -- in the Philippines, Thailand, central Asia (including Russia), Israel, SE Europe, and various parts of the continent of Africa including the Horn of Africa, Sudan, Nigeria, Algeria. And doubtless my list is incomplete. No wonder "The Centrist" can impugn the West so cavalierly; his ignorance wipes the global slate clean of Muslim belligerence.
The Washington Post's coverage of this story says that CAIR were instrumental in getting the men arrested:
"One of them left behind a video ...
The council [CAIR] got the family members in touch with the FBI last week, and the families played the 11-minute English video for agents and Muslim leaders at a lawyer's office."
Anyone have more information on this? Seems unlikely!
These arrests should remind well intentioned jihadis that foreigners aren't always welcome in tribal war zones.
CAIR may be running scared. After all, think of all the material that Dave Gaubatz and his son managed to acquire from CAIR, and copies of which are now in the hands of, and being carefully examined (one hopes), by the FBI and other branches of the security services. And once the family of the piquantly-named Rami Zamzam heard the tape, and they were worried, it seems, that their son might have gone off on a martyrdom mission in Pakistan.
Now these parents did not contact the American government directly. They contacted CAIR. Why was that? Why didn't they immediately go to the government? And what were their thoughts? No doubt, they were worried about their son going off on a martyrdom mission in his native Pakistan, against Pakistani government forces. And surely that, too, was part of what lay behind their decision to bring the tape -- if they did -- to the attention of the American government. For Muslim parents who might be reconciled to the death of their child in an operation against out-and-out Infidels might not be quite so wiling to lose a child -- there is still that human element that Islam does not quite manage to extinguish - they might be less anguished if that Muslim child has gone off to kill American or other Infidels.
Then, once CAIR was involved, note that CAIR did not immediately tell the parents to bring the tape to the FBI. No, first it had the parents bring the tape to a lawyer's office and play it. Now at this point, after the Gaubatz episode, do those who run CAIR dare, at this point, to take a chance that the video is a fake, a setup, designed to see what CAIR will do? They do not. They cannot, then, not any longer knowing who is who -- why, perhaps, someone thinks, the parents of Rami Zamzam, and the supposedly missing Rami Zamzam himself, might be part of a sting to entrap CAIR. They know that the imam who passed on the information about Najibullah Zazi (which he obtained from a too-trusting member of the NYPD) has been arrested and charged. They know that CAIR is now on everyone's Watch List.
That, and only that, explains why CAIR may have -- if it did --at this point in the game (of possible mirrors, of conceivable deceptions), did not advise the family to do nothing, but instead -- and certainly the lawyer must also have feared for his own position if he counselled anything else -- went along with the advise of the lawyer.
All of this should be kept in mind. CAIR is on the side of Islam, and understand the duty of conducting Jihad through whatever means are necessary. Its principal officers are well aware that "war is deception" and that they are under the strictest of scrutiny. They are not eager to help protect this country; they are eager to protect themselves, and their organization, and want to live to fight another day, fight or engage in that struggle or Jihad that aims to remove all obstacles to the spread, and then the dominance, of Islam -- here as everywhere on earth.
Centrist, I consider myself reasonably inteligent. I have not understood at all, what you are saying or alluding too.
There does not seem to be any logic or thought behind what you have written
Why ?
I too, found the story, and thought, when has CAIR ever contacted the FBI to investigate allegations of jihad?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091210/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_pakistan_us_arrests_probe
Enemies are taking the help of the enemy (cair), we need to know we are dealing with enemies all around. Apt lyrics....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrCDdm2yjXY
The story also made it into the New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/10/world/asia/10inquire.html?em . And it doesn't shy away from the Muslim angle. 'One of the men had left behind an 11-minute video calling for the defense of Muslims in conflicts with the West and suggesting that “young Muslims have to do something,...”'. A colleague of Zamzam the dental student was quoted as saying “He was very devout; he wouldn’t date women...". Overall, the article focused rather well on the Muslim aspect of the story, although it does tilt too hard in the direction of expressing puzzlement about what could have motivated these guys to join the jihad. But at least stories like this are starting to appear. This is good.
Holy cow indeed. Well, the French let the beast in and now it's blocking streets, among other things. Watching these Muslims pray can be disturbing and comical at one and the same time. Disturbing if one knows what they accept as true about the universe, the world and non-believers and what they're called to do. Comical because of the position they put themselves in to pray----the most undignified way of praying I have ever seen.
Thank you, Hugh, for your clarity here. Of course CAIR didn't just use their supernatural powers and run over to each house of the "missing" Muslims. They were called.
Just like that criminal freak assassin in Washington state's family called the Rainbow Coalition the moment they knew their loved one was on the lam...(they didn't, of course...what on earth would civil rights have to do with anything!)
To reiterate what other here have said: CAIR in no way "helped" the FBI. In fact, they only helped themselves and the parents. Being in possession of material evidence, the parents and CAIR would have asked the attorney of their legal obligation and liability. Informed of the penalties for withholding that information they would have had no choice to contact the FBI or possibly face future prosecution. Like Hugh, I cannot wait for the parents explanation for going to CAIR first. Does CAIR have a program for getting "wayward youths" out of foreign engagements and back in the US without government involvement, thus keeping the kids out of jail?
"I leave my laptop in full view with JIHAD WATCH on the screen."
Oh, that's good, Yankel. Just be careful one of them doesn't follow you out of the coffee shop.
Has anyone seen the "South Park" about the "Family Guy" episode that was going to show an image of Mohamet, and the people of South Park bury their heads in the sand for fear of Mohammedan violent retaliation? Oh, it is hilarious, and SO right on.
Here goes Obama again. In Norway. I just caught this part...
----
.....'Globalization'..'the cultural leveling of modernity'.. 'it perhaps comes as no surprise that people fear the loss of what they cherish in their particular identities, their race, their tribe, and perhaps most powerfully, their religion'.
'In some places this fear has led to conflict. At times it even feels like we're moving backwards. We see it in the middle east as the conflict between arabs and jews seems to harden. We see it in nations that are torn asunder by tribal lives'.
'And most dangerously we see it in the way that religion is used to justify the murder of innocents by those who have distored and defiled the great religion of islam... and who attacked my country.. from Afghanistan. These extremists are not the first to kill in the name of god, the cruelties of the crusades are amply recorded'..
'They remind us no holy war can ever be a just war, for if you truely believe that you are carrying out devine will then there is no need for restraint, no need to spare the pregnant mother, or the medic or the red cross worker or even a person of ones own faith. Such a warped view of religion is not just incompatible with the concept of peace but I believe it is incompatible with the vary purpose of faith. for the one rule that lies at the heart of every major religion is that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us. Adhearing to this law of love has always been the core struggle of human nature for we are fallible'...etc
Dec. 10, 2009
------
So globalization is going to LEVEL us? No bring some up but also bring some down? Or level us as in wipe us out?
people fear the loss of what they cherish... well that is no surprise why would anyone celebrate loseing what they cherish? their race? would he worry if the black race was being erased? I think he would. Religion? Does he mean muslims worry that their religion might fade with the modern world. Or Christians will disappear.
Globalization leading to fear in the middle east? I think they were fighting WAY before globalization. Moving backwards... BECAUSE of islam.
And the GREAT religion of islam, again...distorted and defiled... and they attacked from Afghanistan. No Saudi's?
These extremists,meaning muslims, were not the first, remember the crusades? Weren't they the backlash against muslim violence? Doesn't he know that or does he just ignore it? Or is he just trying to transfer christian guilt. Trying to create moral equivalance.
...if you truely believe that you are carrying out devine will then there is no need for restraint...sounds like the permission given by the jihadists...
...the warped view is incompatible with faith? not according to Mohammad.
...the heart of every major religion is that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us... Then islam is not a religion because that is not at the heart of islam. Not ANYWHERE in islam, is it?
And is his nose going higher into the air? And was the audience imported?
Did he bow to the King of Norway? He didn't bow to HRH the Queen of England, so I'm wondering if he only bows to certain royalty.
He really does love islam....
Anyway, all the pundits loved the speech.
My commment was to the post heading: Misunderstanding Islam on a global scale.
Every time muslims go "off the rails" (practically a daily occurrence) we are assured by the politicians, the "experts", the media and muslim spokespersons that the atrocity du jour has nothing to do with islam DESPITE the fact that the jihaidist themselves consistently (and most often convincingly) justify their actions using the qu'ran. Hence yet another misunderstander of islam - there just seems to be SO many of them. If you fail to see the irony of the heading in that context and prefer instead to focus in on this one event then that's your choice.
If five misunderstood Islam, then can't anyone see those who caught those 'misunderstanders'? This is nothing new either, except that you wouldn't acknowledge. Or probably they're the Pakistani police is the real 'misunderstander of Islam'(TM)?
I can't speak knowledgeably about what every Pakistani policeman believes though I am glad that these guys have been captured by them. However, as I stated before, this does not abrogate all of the heinous concepts contained in the qu'ran. Concepts that all to many "misunderstanding" muslims feel compelled to put into bloody living practice. The evidence of this is not circumstantial, the "misunderstanders" are quite clear about where they get their motivation from.
Muslims fighting Muslims, sure. But you're speaking as if rest of the world is all in peace. Care to look around? And then do you still say ONLY Muslims are fighting? Care to find which countries have fought most wars since WWII?
No, I don't think I even alluded to having any such perspective. You are just projecting your bias into what I actually said. Yes, I do look around and what I see is disturbing. The question is, why don't you? Islam, at it's core, is a violent ideology that sets its believers into perpetual aggressive conflict with the rest of the world. This conflict may ebb and flow but it will never, ever go away until islam becomes dominant. Wars waged for other reasons have nothing to do with this issue and bringing them into the debate is simply a red herring.
I wish you well too. Like I said, you can close your eyes, ignore everything and just focus on the part that pleases your fancy, or care to look around and read from other sources. When you are ready, I can give you sources, both classical and contemporary.
I could say the same to you. You can close your eyes and believe what you wish. Believe that this site is wrong. Believe that the people here are just looking for someone to hate and focusing in on muslims. Believe that islam is some benign, peaceful religion that is simply being misused (a lot!). I hope you never have to find out differently first hand.
"And most dangerously we see it in the way that religion is used to justify the murder of innocents by those who have distored and defiled the great religion of islam..." - Hussein our Mohammedan president from the Peace Prize speech.
Good God. It's unbelievable, truly unbelievable.
Hey Hussein - you never heard of islam's Jihad doctrine? And no, we're not "misunderstanding" it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTcyRyJEFPo
On the five arrested...are those part of the 30,000 Obama sent? He didn't specify which 30,000.
Ebonystone wrote:
"What the Hell is a *U.S.-born Pakistani*?"
In proper English usage, "U.S.-born Pakistani" means an American, born in the U.S., who has moved to Pakistan and taken Pakistani citizenship, just as "Pakistani-born American" means someone born in Pakistan who has immigrated to the U.S. and taken American citrizenship.
..................
Yes, Ebonystone—I do know this. But since Zamzam, as far as I know, hadn't been in Pakistan any longer than, say, the "Swede"—who was not referred to as a "Swedish-born Pakistani", I doubt this is what the writer meant.
My main point was that there seems to be less and less expectation that a person who settles in the West—or even any of their native-born offspring—are supposed to be proper, loyal citizens of that nation—or even that they regard themselves as "Americans" or "Swedes" in any significant manner.
Indeed, I believe this is part of the problem.
gravenimage
"a U.S.-born Briton" sarc/off
However, I doubt that the writer is using the phrase correctly; he likely means an American of Pakistani descent, which isn't the same thing.
darcy,
I'd wager that most fans of South Park got a different message from that episode than you did -- i.e., that the South Parkians were being irrationally afraid of Muslims, thus in effect mocking their fear. (And if "Eric Cartman" may have made an Islamorealist statement or two, his character functions sort of as a cartoon version of Archie Bunker, able to utter politically incorrect things but still being depicted as a small-minded bigot, albeit a charming one.) Whether or not the creators of South Park intended that message is another matter. In my estimation, although they have unlike any other popular show mocked terrorists and Osama and may have had one or two episodes obliquely referring to Mohammed, they have been altogether too timid to give equal lampooning treatment to Islam and Muslims, compared with the thousand shows they have done so far mercilessly mocking Christianity, Judaism, Christians, Catholics, Christ, Moses, and the Judaeo-Christian God. Stacking up that comparison, Trey Parker and Matt Stone have come nowhere close to earning my respect.
The Centrist wrote:
Muslims fighting Muslims, sure. But you're speaking as if rest of the world is all in peace. Care to look around? And then do you still say ONLY Muslims are fighting?
....................
What astonishes me is how many of the world's conflicts *do* involve Muslims—all out of proportion to their roughly 20% of the world's population.
Certainly, there are wars and conflicts in the world that do not involve Muslims—the world would not be entirely peaceful even with out Jihad. There is Russia's continued attempt to bring Georgia to heel, Maoist insurgents in Nepal, North Korea's ugly sabre-rattling, Narco-terrorists in Columbia and Mexico, and Congo's long and bloody civil war.
But when you consider that most of the rest of the world's conflicts—in Israel, the "Palestinian territories", Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, Lebanon, Ethiopia, Chechnya, Kashmir, Thailand, the Philippines, Nigeria, China, and Yemen—are entirely Jihadist in nature, it is stunning.
These are not only most of the world's conflicts, but they are also—with the exception of the terrible war in Congo—the ugliest, bloodiest, and most intractable-and they are such due to the doctrine of Jihad and nature of Islam itself.
In defense of the Muslims, may I use some Tu Quoque here; I remind you that the Swedes were one the peoples who made up the Vikings; very bad people, plundering and killing wherever they went! and they believed in Odin and polytheism!
Using a logical fallacy to make a point is, well, pointless. So the Swedes were once a violent, murdering, plundering people. They are no so today.
Is it your point that a people can change? I agree but I won't accept their current behavior like a 2 years old's temper tantrum - as something they'll eventually grow out of.
Or is your point that the polytheistic Vikings were not islamic but still committed atrocities? I have no idea if there is a causal relationship between Odin worship and coastal raiding but I'm fairly convinced there is one between islam and muslim violence. Presupposing that there was a relationship, the Swedes, as far as I know, no longer worship Viking era gods. Perhaps muslims would become more like today's Swedes if the stopped practicing islam?
Big-Pete, of course I fully agree with you.
But CTYankee was joking about "The Swede", in company with the Yemeni's, the Egyptian, Pakistani, perhaps being a violent Lutheran. And I liked that and, still chuckling, gave on purpose a fake stupid "Tu Quoque"-argument about the Swedes 1000 years ago. I think "The Swede" mentioned was only a first-generation-Swede with a Muslim background.
I actually DID hear this "Tu Quoque"-argument about Scandinavian people being very violent in the past once from a Muslima though, and at the time SHE was serious. But I just was being sarcastic. Sorry for the confusion.
No problem, I was having a little fun with it too. Not surprised it was actually used though. It happens all the time here. Cheers!