The irony is most likely completely lost on the EU. "Turkey prepares to join EU in a building confiscated from the Orthodox," by Nat da Polis for AsiaNews, December 11:
Istanbul (AsiaNews) - Unbelievable but true: the headquarters of the Secretariat for the entry of Turkey into the European Union is a building confiscated from the Orthodox Christian community in the 90s. The building is located in Istanbul, in the well-known area of Ortakoy, under the first bridge over the Bosphorus.
Before the seizure, the building was used as a primary school for children of the minority Orthodox in Ortakoy. Here, once lived a thriving Orthodox community, now non-existent because of past purges against minorities, executed by the "secular" Turkish State.
Thanks to the policy of purging, the building and many other schools, at one point found themselves without students, unused and then confiscated. The forfeiture rule however prevented foundations - owners of buildings - from allocating them to different uses. The community of Ortakoy appealed to the administrative courts in Istanbul, which have yet to rule on the issue. In case of a ruling to the contrary, the Orthodox intend to apply to the court in Strasbourg. The inauguration of the Secretariat took place in the presence of Prime Minister Erdogan, accompanied by Minister for European Affairs Bajis and by various authorities and European representation.
The event has aroused unease in diplomatic circles in Brussels, so much so that on the eve of the inauguration, a senior government official visited Patriarch Bartholomew I to let them know that the courts decision will be respected. The question also arises whether the current Turkish government aware of the building's history.
Hmm.
Meanwhile in Brussels some discomfort is spreading towards politicians who are champions of Turkey's entry into the EU. Ankara has not yet shown a convincing European orientation, it is believed that the "champions" are tied to the country by economic and financial interests.
One suggestion for resolving the issue comes from Lakis Vigas, representative of minorities in Turkey in the General Directorate of Foundations. Interviewed by the newspaper Milliyet on the case of Ortakoy, he says a possible solution would be if the Ortakoy foundation were granted the possibility to lease the building to the Turkish nation. This gesture would have a noble purpose: the entry of Turkey into the EU the "source of our hopes."
That is, be a good dhimmi and play along. Anyway, for a truly noble, tolerant gesture, how about giving back the Hagia Sophia?
We Armenians and other Orthodox in and from the Middle East know the Turks and other Muslims for what they are: duplicitous thugs.
"The Shady Background of the Independent Commission on Turkey"
http://stopturkey.blogspot.com/2009/12/shady-backgrounds-of-independent.html
"We Armenians and other Orthodox in and from the Middle East know the Turks and other Muslims for what they are: duplicitous thugs." -arius
Oh, I think you are being too kind, especially in light of how your fellow Armenians were treated early in the prior century, let alone how they are treated now.
"...it is believed that the [European] "champions" [of Turkish entry into the EU] are tied to the country by economic and financial interests."
Well, duh...no kidding?
Robert's last comment is interesting. A one up swap - the building under the bridge in return for the Haiga Sophia and resumption of the unfettered practice of Christianity in Turkey - would be great. Never gonna happen though...sigh.
A followup: The Hagia Sophia stood for a thousand years as one of the most spectacular creations of Christian architects before it was rudely converted to a mosque following the fall of Constantinople in 1453. It has ever since been flaunted as a reminder to the world of the supremacy of Islam. It's difficult to see how this might occur, but I hope to live to see the day when the Hagia Sophia is returned to its rightful owners, the minarets are torn down, the icons returned, and the Orthodox services resumed. The same sentiment holds for the reconstruction of the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem, which would, of course, necessitate first removing the barnacle (Al-Aqsa) squatting on top of it.
“Meanwhile in Brussels some discomfort is spreading towards politicians who are champions of Turkey's entry into the EU.”
I think not. Those people have proved again and again they have no shame. These are the same people who in the 70s preferred to be “red then dead.” Although there is still reluctance on the side of some EU members to admit Turkey, eventually it will happen. There is a lot of pressure from other moslim countries on EU to admit Turkey. They do understand that admission of Turkey will quickly lead to islamisation of Europe. It is well understood in Europe as well.
It seems the process is already so advanced that it is only a matter of time before Notre Dome de Paris will be what Haiga Sofia today. I have not come across any view, which would look at not what is happening to Europe, but what will be after Europe becomes moslem. Sharia, decline in science and education, economic downfall, dismantling of NATO, rewriting history, increased hostility to US and Israel and huge pressure on non EU members of Europe???
Moslems will not need majority, they vote as a block, so 25% of moslems (+plenty of dhimmis) will be enough to make it happen. Turkey, as a moslem backdoor will provide an opportunity to make it in a matter of 2-3 years.
Here’s hoping that Turkish Muslims give up the worst of dead ghosts...
Here's hoping that Turkish Muslims give up all of Islam...
"...Notre Dome de Paris will be what Haiga Sofia [is] today."
...as well as St. Peter's in Rome and a hundred other spectacular cathedrals across Europe. God what a depressing, anger-inducing thought.
The West could do something similar by turning mosques on its soil into Krav-Maga training centers for women. Now, that's something that could start sending mahoundian backs to arabia in droves, not to mention how it'd make them think twice before trying to rape "un-tent-ed" kafir women, like those Mein Qurampf 33:59 tells them they have "permission" from mahound's imaginary alter-ego to sexually abuse...
I like where you're going with this! Perhaps small arms training as well?
Truth be told, “Turkish culture” is largely a joke:
As many who have done-the-rounds can testify --
Islam has thoroughly raped the soul of what was once “Turkey.”
There is no such thing as “Islamic culture”.
Islam is a fraud, inside and out.
Qaeda blames ISI, RAW, CIA for 'un-Islamic' terror strikes in Pakistan
http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20091212/874/twl-qaeda-blames-isi-raw-cia-for-un-isla.html
Cairo, Dec. 12 (ANI): Condemning the recent terror strikes in Pakistan, the Al Qaeda has denied its involvement in the series of terror attacks in the country in the recent past, saying such strikes were 'un-Islamic.'
In it's latest English language video, Qaeda blamed the US and Pakistani intelligence services for the bloodshed in the country.
"The perpetration of such deplorable acts and the pinning of responsibility for them on the mujahideen, only serves the enemies of Islam and Muslims, who are today staring defeat in the face," the video showed US-born Qaeda operative, Adam Gadahn, who commonly delivers the banned outfit's English messages, as saying.
Gadahn also accused the Indian intelligence agency, the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) and the Pakistani media for implicating Al-Qaeda in the attacks.
"The mercenaries of the ISI, RAW, CIA or Blackwater are the real culprits behind these senseless and un-Islamic bombings," The Dawn quoted Gadahn, as saying.
In a transcript of the video released by the SITE Intelligence Group, a Washington-based monitor of militant websites, Gadahn told Pakistanis that their real enemies were secular regimes, corrupt police, judges and tribal nationalists.
According to the FBI's records, Gadahn grew up in Los Angeles and then moved to Pakistan in 1998. He is said to have attended an Al Qaeda training camp six years later, serving as a translator and consultant for the extremist group.
More than 500 people have died in a wave of deadly attacks in Pakistan that began in October, just as the Army initiated an all out offensive against extremist in South Waziristan, the region which is believed to be the Taliban's stronghold.
Just imagine... Copies of Mein Qurampf and cutouts of Yusuf al-Qaradawi, bin Laden and Opensewerabia's "grand" mufti for target practice... Making mahoundians fear Western women like that could turn out to be one of the most powerful weapons in rolling back the tide of islamization trying to turn the civilized world into a Greater Somalia...
The EU's inclusion of Turkey amounts to importing a fifth-column 50 million strong which will infest every European country. This guarantees bloodshed on a colossal scale within 20 years.
We know where our Quislings are. Where is our Charlemagne? Where is our Churchill?
"The question also arises whether the current Turkish government aware of the building's history."
The problem with institutionalized racism or discrimination of other sorts such as against non-Muslims under Islam is that over time it just becomes so accepted that it isn't really even noticed. That this building was confiscated from infidels isn't an issue for those Muslims it is just like the sun coming up in the morning. In such a society even those whose heart does occasionally feel some little bit of compassion for the oppressed (rather than the truly debased who merely revel in abusing others) they quickly lose those feelings and move on since that is just the way things are. The true evil of Islam is the way that it sets in stone so many of the worst attributes of man and of society making progress to a more enlightened state of mind for the individual, a more enlightened society for the group, impossible to develop.
Love the Armenians, hope to visit Nagorno-Karabakh someday! The Turkish genocide of Armenians is in our history books now. Armenians and others are doing well posting this historical event, as it is as relevant as much today as ever, more perhaps. The ‘Turks’ seem to have little response but belligerence, bragging of their numbers, insinuating or openly displaying their vicious desire to repeat since they can no longer use denial as their default position, without smirking. I found a bottle of Armenian Ararat wine in our refrigerator last night, can't even remember how we got it, a gift? Great taste.......knowing your history, you are an encouragement to free people, every sip was a pleasure. Thank you Armenia!
You are too diplomatic.
Considering what happened to Armenians, I believe it is wrong to say that Turks are "duplicitous". Islam is quite clear on how to deal with non-Muslims. No duplicity here.
Why should we just demand the Hagia Sofia back? We demand the lands that gave us St. Augustine, Clement of Alexandria, the Cappadocian Fathers, the route by which the Church of the East took the Gospel to China and India back in the 700's and earliier, the resting place of Matthew the Apostle...
And may the metered versions of the Psalms sound loudly between the Ka'aba and the Hill of Arafat, too!
Maybe the Jerusalem Project sponsored by Chinese Christians will see that route traced again, but this time coming from the East.
Proud Kafir
I agree. Teaching highly effective self defence here in Britain is a must. No point in being nice about it. We need to incapacitate them at top speed to give ourselves the chance to get away from them. Unfortunately, they seem to be attacking in gangs so perhaps start with go out with friends (male and female)it could dissuade them.
I've just bought some CDs from America which is a combination of all sorts of things, it is based on simple actions (the higher the level of adrenalin in your system, the less refined pattern of actions you are capable of). I'm going to start on it.
Also look up Street Fighting. Its American and taught to the police, FBI etc. You might be able to go on a course.
Over here we cannot have hand guns.
(I-D) English
Well, why don't you Americans leave North America to native Americans? Who decides the owner of a land?
Before Armenians there were many civilizations in Anatolia. What happened to them? Face it. We, all the people in the world, are children of conquerers. We are all children of invaders and killers.
We should talk about now. Yeah I agree. Freedom of religion doesn't truly exist in Turkey. Christians are seen as traitors. Atheists are mainly tolerated but Armenian and Greek Christians are still seen as enemy. I hope this will change.
It's only a matter of time -- it may take several decades, perhaps it won't come to fruition until the 22nd century, but the West will reclaim the land currently occupied by Muslims and "secular" Muslim dictators in Turkey: Imagine in the future: The Republic of Byzantium -- from which all Muslims will have been expelled.
A settled conviction of superiority does not promote the development of delicate sensibilities.
all right, but then also accept the Israeli's conquered part of Palestine in 1948 just as you now accept that the Turks conquered Turkey and Constantinople from the Greek orthodox! Endeavor to use single standards in these 2 conquests!
Isn't that amazing - and they are sooo outraged by the Swiss minaret ban. They are playing a double game with us!
They have taken and continue to try to take church property in Turkey. How about the land dispute with the monastery built in the 4th century.
Here's PM Erogan's latest:
Turkish media reported that Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan had questioned the ICC charges against al-Bashir and said that "no Muslim could perpetrate a genocide."
That solves the Armenian question then !!
Sonsuz, are you Turkish? You make a good point. Perhaps what's being said is that if Turkey owned up to the Armenian horrors the way Germany owned up to the Shoah and the USA admits that the treatment of the Indians was deplorable, a lot of the world might feel just a little more comfortable.
We are dealing with a threat right here and right now on our own soil. Our children are in grave danger. Look into the Gulen Movenment. If you have friends or family in any of these Turkish charter schools here in the US pull them out now. Send a mass email and notify your local press to look into this. They operate and stealth and secrecy. google gulen movement charter school find the list and remove your children. Before it is too late.