Every Muslim group that ever had anything to do with Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab is trying to make sure that no one gets the idea that he learned jihad from them. School officials are not sure whether or not the Flight 253 jihadist went to an Islamic school in Houston. And in Nigeria, they've never seen al-Qaeda and are all moderates. And now we hear the same thing from his London mosque.
"London Mosque 'Appalled' By Terrorist Attack," from the Daily Express, December 29 (thanks to Twostellas):
THE mosque that Abdulmutallab was reported to have visited in Britain distanced itself from the terrorist attack yesterday....Mosque secretary Ayub Khan said: "The mosque condemns in the strongest possible terms the alleged attempt to blow up a transatlantic airliner in the USA."
He added that the mosque "is appalled that it should be associated with such heinous acts".
However, he said the public mosque was visited by 20,000 people a year and so "cannot comment on whether this individual came".
Abdulmutallab studied mechanical engineering at University College London from 2005 to 2008.
Last night, a college spokesman said that "quietly spoken" Abdulmutallab "never gave his tutors any cause for concern".
"Shocked!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1DEG6BWgp0
Mosque secretary Ayub Khan said: "..the mosque is appalled that it should be associated with such heinous acts".
Hey! You guys aren't supposed to notice! This islamic take-over won't work if you draw the correct conclusion. Not fair! It's islamophobia!
YAWN
"Appalled".
Riiiiiight.
So many Eddie Haskell's in Islam. So little will to give them "the business".
Boilerplate denial.
Totally to be expected.
The British authorities, if they had any sense at all, would ignore the denials and immediately raid the mosque and associated premises [such as the imam's house, 'charitable' organisations, etc], and go through them from basement to attic, with sniffer dogs (the sort that are trained to detect drugs, explosives, and cadavers). Look for false floors, false walls, false ceilings, hidden safes, and weaponry.
All finances, correspondence and basically every electronic and paper document in the place to be gone through in minute detail.
*Any* evidence of anything to do with jihad incitement or any other kind of illegal activity should result in the place being shut down - permanently.
"Last night, a college spokesman said that "quietly spoken" Abdulmutallab "never gave his tutors any cause for concern".
Naturally-his tutors were not "infidels".
At some level it's actually funny to see how pathetic this ruse is. But then one considers that for a great number of people this veil is effective in obscuring the evil. Then it stops being funny.
That entire press release is a lie. It's sad that we a fooled so easily.
Islam, once stripped of its religious garb, is quickly rendered impotent. Leave it dressed up and we get killed. It's so stupidly simple that one wonders why we continue to delude ourselves.
The very first lie of Islam was this: Allah is God.
It is a lie and a very clever one. It has worked for 1,400 years. But I think people are onto the ruse. Islam is a bad pony. Don't bet on it.
It makes no difference when a Muslim speaks about how Islam is a religion of peace and how it's just not comprehensible that some other Muslim would engage in an act of terror. It's always a useless statement because either the Muslim condemning the terror sincerely believes that his religion is good and peaceful, in which case he is useless, or he is engaging in taqiyya, in which case he is useless.
More and more non-Muslims consciously or unconsciously are catching on to this, and so as we make our way into the future Muslims condemning barbarism perpetrated by Muslims will mean less and less as time goes on. Eventually virtually no one will listen to Muslims anymore. They'll just be so sick of Islam that they'll tune out anything Muslims say. That day is coming, though it's still a fair way off.
"What? A terror attack by a MUSLIM? That attended our mosque? Has such a thing ever happened before? I just can't believe it."
Another use of Taquiya. But these Mohammedans know in their hearts that this Islamic Jihadi was carrying out the true dictates of Islam. This is just another ploy to fool the non Muslim population that this Muslim terrorist was acting alone and not in tandem with Islamic jurisprudence and his cohorts--the rest of the Muslim world.
If I had a penny every time I heard that one...
Actually, number 1 would be 'Islam is peace'. It's like living in a parody!
How do people buy into this crap??
I mean, fool me once, shame on me, fool me a billion times...
Jihad is not a place in Japan!
I'm wi' Dumbles.
Authorities in the UK/US need to immediately issue search warrants ~ and if cops on the street get the "Go" by radio and have to write the warrants on pizza boxes and deli menus, then so be it ~ and the mosque doors need to opened using whatever force necessary, resisters overcome by whatever force necessary, and this tribe needs to have Western values and law shoved down their dank throats if they won't... submit.
Okay, that's my interpretation of what Dumbles meant.
undaunted Said: "Authorities in the UK/US need to immediately issue search warrants ~ and if cops on the street get the "Go" by radio and have to write the warrants on pizza boxes and deli menus"
I'm afraid you don't know how bad things are in the UK (AKA The United Islamic Kingdom). UK had fallen long ago. Right now, it would be easier to pass (more) sharia laws then resist them. The media (TV and radio), banks, government, schools etc., are all deep under the 'spell' of Islam, (whether by muslims or crazy Libs, and I do mean crazy). Freedom of speech exist by theory mostly, and the government feels 'free' to ban whom or what ever it feels 'can cause trouble'.
People are (for the lack of any other choice really) going to the far right (BNP), which is bound to backfire. A backfire from the right, could mean the last blow from the Libs and jihadist and send the UK happily into complete darkness.
OT
I don't see mentioned often in the mainstream media yet that Abdulmutallab's father had at least two wives and 16 children. (The would-be-bomber was the 16th child). So the son plays at the kill/disrupt-the-infidels-jihad, but the father is apparently accomplished at the outnumber-the-infidels jihad. (Both of these types of jihad were recommended by Muhammad). The two kinds of jihad come together; a Muslim who has 16 children is, by simple probability, almost certainly going to have at least a few children who are sympathetic to, if not active in, militant jihad.
Does anyone have the name of this mosque?
I have found that simply Googling the name of an iffy individual or institution "+ terrorism" often brings up a cornucopia of disturbing information (of course, "Jihad" would be more accurate than "terrorism", but it is still too obscure for most references).
I uncovered a great deal of alarming information about Abdulmattallab's Islamic school in Houston in just this manner.
When Allah says it's OK to lie, what good is anything any of them say? Lies trump truth in the inverted World they live in.
Someday, preferably before the Polar Ice Cap melts. Somebody will just ask why we should we believe them?
Poor Daddy. can you imagine all the expenses he shelled out for. Big fancy Schools, and digs, and meals, and ALL that TRAVELING! His wayward SON hob nobbling around with some of the worst pond scum in the world.
Just the 3 Years of Engineering School alone must have cost a pretty penny. Only to screw that up in the end. Must make a Father proud.
So, does Daddy Dearest, One of those Fat Cats we hear so much about these days, get a free pass?
No doubt, good kids do go "bad" But. It's usually by getting knocked up, too drunk, crashing the car, picking up an STD... Something more akin to the upper middle class.
Not a case of spending years getting ready to blow your privets to kingdom come just to drop an Airliner.
A New Years Toast. Here's to Daddy Dearest. May he go broke with Attorney Fees. Trying to keep his wayward one from getting to where he was going.
Last night, a college spokesman said that "quietly spoken" Abdulmutallab "never gave his tutors any cause for concern".
A quietly spoken member of a loud mouthed belief system should raise concern, but these people are there to feign appall at their supposed inability to catch the signs and become concerned.
*** 92:8 ***
... go through them from basement to attic, with sniffer dogs (the sort that are trained to detect drugs, explosives, and cadavers). Look for false floors, false walls, false ceilings, hidden safes, and weaponry.
Hey Dumbles, do these guys have dogs that can sniff out false humanity, trap door consciences, that sorta thing?
I don't see mentioned often in the mainstream media yet that Abdulmutallab's father had at least two wives and 16 children.
Are we talking Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab or Barack Hussein Obama here?
*** 92:8 ***
What with so many Moslems crowding my mind here I'm getting lost, feeling disoriented. Queasy.
"Last night, a college spokesman said that 'quietly spoken, Abdulmutallab, never gave his tutors any cause for concern'."
Ab's father had contacted the FBI concerning his son's "extreme religious views" months ago, and was reportedly "shocked that his son was even was allowed to fly to the U.S."! ...so whatever, dude.
"When will the British people wake up to the enemy in their midst"
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/concoughlin/100020959/when-will-the-british-people-wake-up-to-the-enemy-in-their-midst/
I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but the daily express has censored comments for that particular article. A quick browse on the site shows you can comment on anything else.
"Never gave his tutors any cause for concern" except in his practical bomb ignition course.
even the family, friends and fellow mosque attendees expressed shock and dismay when the crazed Muslim Palestinian bulldozer operators ran amok trying to kill all who were encountered....
"shocked" they said, "he didn't learn that from us" they said, "he is a good boy" they said..."yes, he is a Muslim" they said...
@gravenimage: the mosque is the East London Mosque, which on the face it's own PR, seems to be quite moderate (i.e. they allow women inside *rolls eyes*)
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&cid=1179664500386&pagename=Zone-English-News/NWELayout
Islam, once stripped of its religious garb, is quickly rendered impotent. Leave it dressed up and we get killed. It's so stupidly simple that one wonders why we continue to delude ourselves.
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Excellent.
Here, take a look at all of the programs we have done in the last year. We had a special weekend seminar on supporting the government and helping them find terrorists, another weekend we had a special seminar pointing out all of the lies that the terrorists tell about Islam, and then there was the weekend we had the ex-terrorist speak to all of the youth of the mosque telling them how evil it was what he had done. And every week at our regular service we say a special prayer that our wonderful government will find all of the terrorists in our midst and root them out and arrest them so that we can continue living in peace and helping our wonderful new country grow and prosper in safety. And our annual weekend of dialog was truly special this year with both Christian and Jewish speakers who shared their wonderful visions of faith.
We all know that will never happen and to be frank if it did it would just be a smokescreen for the real action going on beneath the surface. Islam out of the West now.
I agree with you dumbledoresarmy, and would add: anyone found responsible for the presence of the jihad literature that incited the jihad act should face penalties, including being charged in some fashion, however indirect and reduced, as an accomplice to the attempted takedown of the airline. Of course, such charges won't be brought any time soon, because Islamic core texts themselves would implicate every Muslim who knows what they say. And non-Muslim society is not yet prepared to cross that line.
Three examples from the rather Orwellian Religion of "Peace":
1) Qur'an Chapter 8, Verse 12
When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.
2) In Sahih Bukhari, the most canonical of hadith collections, Muhammad said, "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him."
3) In the same hadith collection, Muhammad said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah."
In other words, if you are not a Muslim, Muhammad says your blood and property will not be safe from Muslims.
I am currently reading Lee Harris's Suicide of Reason. In it he describes how successful throughout the ages Jihad has been. Islam is a very successful and effective movement, if you think about it. It is now, in part, in opposition to another very successful movement, the democratic way of organising societies.
In the past, by warfare, Muslims simply beat the upper class of a country and took over the role of that upper class. But with the rule that the conquered people could join the elite when they converted to Islam, otherwise they could be subjugated and exploited by Jizya. Which is highly effective in favor of Islam.
But nowadays people of Western countries cannot be beaten militarily and subjugated so easily anymore, because their mindset is no longer sheepish as the mindset of so many conquered people in history was, I think.
Still, those who want Islamic worldwide dominance and use Jihad for this are not crazy. They must have good reasons for these terrorist acts. They must think Jihad is somehow in the end effective. As it has in the past worked so well for Islam.
For Muslims saying that they are shocked and that they condemn terrorist attacks should not be accepted as enough. More and more they must be put in a position of choice; Either you are for democracy or you are for theocracy and shariah without democratic rules. Then you are considered to be on the side of the Jihadi's/ terrorists.
You Muslims should aim for Islamic power only through democratic means, everywhere in the world eventually. You in the end must consider being supportive of Democracy as importat as being supportive of Islam. You can try to combine the 2, but in the end you cannot choose, in your hearts, minds, words and actions for theocratic dictatorship with shariah. Not even in the long run in the now still Islamic countries.
In the end democratic governments should give a message like that more & more to Muslims living in their countries.
One reason Islam was initially so successful was that the geopolitical situation in the seventh and eighth centuries was very different than today. Then, the Arabian peninsula had no central authority at all, and large areas of North Africa and Asia Minor had very weak governments after the disintegration of the Roman Empire. Even the religious structure was weak, as Christianity had emerged from the wreckage of Rome and was still fairly new.
Essentially, the Arabs were able to use their military prowess, justified by an opportunistic religious doctrine, to fill a vacuum.
In contrast, today, the Muslim countries are way behind technologically, and the poltical structures outside of their lands are well entrenched.
I think the real problem isn't that Islam is going to conquer the world outright by force of arms, but that it will try to spread its reactionary and discriminatory seventh century ideology by means of oil-based revenue, legal manipulation, conversion, demographic conquest, education, etc. to degrade the freedoms and security of the West. Terrorism, military subversion in third world countries and nuclear weapon development are all logical consequences of its warlike message of domination and hatred towards unbelievers.
Firstly, I think you greatly underestimate the people in history who were subjugated by Islam. Some of the greatest civilizations in history were conquered and ultimately subjugated by the retrograde evil force of Islam. Those people were not weak sheep. They were as jd mentioned weakened by fighting among themselves - something that Islam has always taken advantage of, and if you look at the West now we are weakened by fighting among believers in liberal multiculturalism and those who want to preserve traditional Western civilization values and society. Islam will win every time as it attacks the host society on so many levels. And that is why your suggestion is so wrong - at least for those of us that want the West to survive: "You Muslims should aim for Islamic power only through democratic means, everywhere in the world eventually. You in the end must consider being supportive of Democracy as important as being supportive of Islam."
The West must not accept any moves toward establishment of anything remotely approaching sharia even if it is done non-violently by democratic means. There are many fools in the conservative movement today who think that "rule of law" will be able to overpower Islam but that is insane. The day that Muslims have enough of a voting block they would merely vote in sharia law and using Muslim judges on the Supreme Court overturn laws or make up "rights" in the same way that liberal judges do now, but the rights the Muslims would create would destroy the constitution and democracy and create just another Islamic sharia state. There would be no need for all those messy democratic structures and rules of operating since all would be complete and all would be right with the world under sharia.
Any and all calls for sharia should be grounds for deporting those involved, closing mosques, jailing or fining citizens. Muslims who want sharia should be asked to leave, paid to leave if necessary. Zero tolerance should be the eternal policy regarding any and all talk of sharia even if they want it to come about democratically without violence and even if it would take hundreds of years to eventually get there. In the end it would mean the destruction of the rights that allowed them to get to that point in the first place and the loss of religious freedom for other religions.
Excellent book, Demsci.
I highly recommend it for all JW readers.
While every mosque may not have jihad literature, they all have a Qoran, the supreme jihad manual.
From Thinkthrice above:
"...Any and all calls for sharia should be grounds for deporting those involved, closing mosques, jailing or fining citizens. Muslims who want sharia should be asked to leave, paid to leave if necessary. Zero tolerance should be the eternal policy regarding any and all talk of sharia even if they want it to come about democratically without violence and even if it would take hundreds of years to eventually get there. In the end it would mean the destruction of the rights that allowed them to get to that point in the first place and the loss of religious freedom for other religions...."
This should be the law of the land in the USA and Europe!
I agree with Demsci and Undaunted- the Harris Book is well worth reading, as well as his previous one "Civilization and it Enemies", wherein he explores a sort of theory of gangs and their overtaking governments. Lots of 20th century examples.