Even in niqabs, they are verbally and physically harassed. This occurs despite the enthusiasm of Naomi Wolf and similar enablers for the supposedly "liberating" aspects of the ironically ostentatious "modesty" of Islamic attire... all of which could arguably be achieved in the West with, say, conventional church-friendly attire, unless one is going for anonymity, or actually seeking attention for being really, really modest.
The problem is, the objectification of women is ultimately in the eye of the beholder, hijab or no hijab, niqab or no niqab. Where the hijab is successfully imposed on a culture, it becomes part of a quid pro quo arrangement to be left alone (and not attacked), and thus becomes in itself the ultimate symbol of objectification, lest a woman be found unworthy of respect or even safety without it, and often with it. (See also: Sheik al-Hilali, and this Egyptian ad.)
All of this goes to show the hijab and its more severe variations are a capitulation to an unjust social order, not a moral achievement, and capitulation encourages the opposite of equal treatment. The best one can hope for is that one's overlords observe the terms of the surrender.
"Harassment across Arab world drives women inside," by Sarah El Deeb for the Associated Press, December 15:
CAIRO - The sexual harassment of women in the streets, schools and work places of the Arab World is driving them to cover up and confine themselves to their homes, said activists at the first-ever regional conference addressing the once taboo topic.
Activists from 17 countries across the region met in Cairo for a two-day conference ending Monday and concluded that harassment was unchecked across the region because laws don't punish it, women don't report it and the authorities ignore it.
The harassment, including groping and verbal abuse, appears to be designed to drive women out of public spaces and seems to happen regardless of what they are wearing, they said.
That's exactly the goal, and it is rooted in Islamic tradition, which calls for a woman not to leave the house unescorted by her husband or a suitable male relative, or without his permission.
Amal Madbouli, who wears the conservative face veil or niqab, told The Associated Press that despite her dress, she is harassed and described how a man came after her in the streets of her neighborhood.
"He hissed at me and kept asking me if I wanted to go with him to a quieter area, and to give him my phone number," said Madbouli, a mother of two. "This is a national security issue. I am a mother, and I want to be reassured when my daughters go out on the streets."
Statistics on harassment in the region have until recently been nonexistent, but a series of studies presented at the conference hinted at the widespread nature of the problem.
As many as 90 percent of Yemeni women say they have been harassed, while in Egypt, out of a sample of 1,000, 83 percent reported being verbally or physically abused.
A study in Lebanon reported that more than 30 percent of women said they had been harassed there.
"We are facing a phenomena that is limiting women's right to move ... and is threatening women's participation in all walks of life," said Nehad Abul Komsan, an Egyptian activist who organized the event with funding from the U.N. and the Swedish development agency....
"Ban the Burqa - and the Niqab too" (Daniel Pipes).
http://www.danielpipes.org/4783/ban-the-burqa-and-the-niqab-too
Nudists, in a nudist camp of course, to not feel the urge to attack one another for sexual gratification. The reason being that once they become aware of their total nudity they become used to the idea and a nudist is a fellow nudist and they sexuality aspect of it becomes unappealing.
Obviously to the non-nudist it is a curiosity. Stories of teenagers sneaking up on a nudist colony to take a peek are commonplace. But to the nudist, it is nothing. The mind is acclimated to the nudity around you and the rush of hormones subsides. Perhaps it is what Adam and Eve were like prior to discovering their sense of guilt and conscience.
If there is a devil, and being Christian I shoud assume there is, the devil would want us to cloth ourselves to make the mind a curiosity seeker; to wonder what lurks beneath the clothing?
Before the pheromones disappeared in humankind, or at least our sense of them disappeared, we didn't worry about clothing and just let nature do the fomenting.
Perhaps if the Islamic world relaxed on the oppressive dress they would discover that there is really no need for all of this women covering. It's all in the mind.
"Even in niqabs, they are verbally and physically harassed."
By whom?...oh wait....that would be other Muslims for the most part....
Which is why whenever a knockout first date
(computer date},
driving up in her Corvette, AND WEARING A VEIL, says, Hey Paleologus, you getting in, or what?
I always say "I have to go back in the house, and bring along my Louville #7 for my (nonexistent) son. By the way, I'm driving."
Hey al,
Got any nudie pics?
I can photo shop the men out.
"Statistics on sexual harassment in the region have until recently been nonexistent..."
And what recent statistics that now exist are entirely ancillary, accrued not by police reports but by unscientific polling. Nor are there reliable statistics on spousal abuse, the sexual abuse of children, or other social pathologies.
Fascinating how - in the statistical realm, crime against women and children is considered so much more pervasive in the West than in Darul Islam. I wonder why?
Islam hates women, whether or not they are wearing burkas, niqabs, hijabs or anything else.
Those of us who read this site understand that when the pious muslim male rapes women he is only doing what his prophet mohummud did in his lifetime. there is no respect for women and non-muslims in islam.
I was really hoping someone would read..the lonnie athens report...and the book, why they kill. It gives tons of accounts of what makes one violent, and would line up perfectly with Islam. Robert would have even more to say about violentization..on the last page where i left comments I saw no response. I think it is a critical read.
"Activists from 17 countries across the region met in Cairo for a two-day conference ending Monday and concluded that harassment was unchecked across the region because laws don't punish it, women don't report it and the authorities ignore it."
Clearly if Muslim women would behave in the manner ascribed to them in the way of their prophet, they could quell the desires of the Muslim male libido with breast feeding, as described in the Hadith. I showed this verse to a woman at work, and asked her if she wanted to covert to Islam, so ... you know, we could ahh, you know.
Sahih Muslim
' A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Sahla bint Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) smiled and said: I already know that he is a young man. 'Amr has made this addition in his narration that he participated in the Battle of Badr and in the narration of Ibn 'Umar (the words are): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) laughed. Book 008, Number 3424:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hadhaifa, lived with him and his family in their house. She (i. e. the daughter of Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Salim has attained (puberty) as men attain, and he understands what they understand, and he enters our house freely, I, however, perceive that something (rankles) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to her: Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the rankling) which Abu Hudhaifa feels in his heart will disappear. She returned and said: So I suckled him, and what (was there) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa disappeared. Book 008, Number 3425:
Muslims have been taught of sex without any need for self control. They rape women and put the blame on the victim and everyday they think of their perpetual erection in the hereafter. They live for sex and they die for sex.
Muslim females are the most harassed and violated of all.
They're regarded as nothing but baby-making-machine blobs of Black, and have no civil rights whatsoever. And in an "honor" culture, everything's their fault. Everything. Muslim males have carte blanche over females who are nothing but slaves.
Allah must surely despise them to have given them such a fate.
Silly infidels! Of course we Muslim men conceal our women! They are our property and we have the right to cover them. Just yesterday, I draped the hidden cave in a giant burqa! Your infidel agents (Jehovah's Witness) and Christian missionaries (Christmas Carol singers) have been plaguing your favorite mullah! Haram!
Now I am concealed from their vile kuffar tricks!
Your decadent secular kuffar laws not apply to our strong muslim men! Let me tell you! Even the crack of dawn has to be careful in the desert!
Muslimahs are not safe! If Muhammed could rape, than so can Muslim men! I am telling you now, parts of my hidden Qur'an read like your accursed Playboy magazine!
Peace,
Abdullah Bhullah, the wacky mullah.
Oops, the mighty mullah has not had his morning coffee.
http://tanstaafl-abdullahbhullah.blogspot.com/
There are muslimahs, and there is vitamin D deficiency...
The camp of Islam weakens...
"Islam hates women, whether or not they are wearing burkas, niqabs, hijabs or anything else." Cronullaman
The first two words are all that is necessary for a correct answer to just about anything about islam.
So the truth is finally out now, in this conference?
So you mean what was being said right after 9/11 on the Oprah show and other major media, was it mostly lies and misinformation to make Muslims and Islam appear like the holiest of holy, most desired, most compassionate to women, the fastest growing religion in the history, and that we, got it all wrong and Islam means peace????
Sometime ago I thought they were saying Islam meant "to Submit". Perhaps that would not appeal as much to Freedom loving Americans.
Something, besides piling up dead bodies, is smelling foul in the Muslim world.
Awesome commentary on this article. Kudos to Marisol, you summed it up perfectly in your opening comments!
I'll bet there is plenty of harassment inside the houses as well. I wonder what the rate of incest is. No wonder Rafiq doesn't want to go back.
Well, we humans do apparently still produce and receive pheromones; they likely have a lot to do with the "chemistry" people say they feel, especially early in a relationship (and, often, years into a long-term one). I always thought it was a little unreasonable to assume that we didn't. Chemical communication is an ancient and basic form of communicaton, only augmented by more advanced means of communicating (body language, sounds, speech.) Just because a more advanced method or form comes along in biology, doesn't mean the old is automatically discarded, so long as the primitive form or method is still useful.
The chemistry can simply signal interest, and mutual interest, prompting us to think "I'd like to get to know that person better" - at least amongst civilized people who know how to control themselves. The trick is to not allow the pheromonal reaction to control us, without thinking and observing and learning about the person first. This is likely what leads to mistakes (one-night stands, bad relationships, etc).
Attraction between a couple doesn't require great beauty or handsomeness, of course; there are always many factors at work in human relationships, particularly successful ones. But the chemistry might explain why, say, a pretty girl might pass up the big comely jock for the less-aggressive little homely guy. Something about the little guy just "smells" right, while something about the athlete might turn her off; she likely won't be able to articulate it at first, until she gets to know the fellow better, but she doesn't have to.
But I agree, people used to nudity don't fire off their pheromones (is, no arousal is triggered) just because they see a naked body. It is the ones who are not causal about such things, who do truly objectify the human form, who go nuts.
Muslim males aren't even apparently trained or taught to control themselves in any which way, shape or form, except to dupe or deceive in order to get their way - with women, with society; self-control, to the extent that they can manage it, becomes a weapon rather than a virtue.
What some might find interesting, as a side note, is that in many wild species (most notably birds), it is the female who does the choosing. Bower birds with the fancy nests the males make, male prairie chickens with their drumming, and the sexually-selected peacock's tail are good examples of this. Gift-giving, male to female, can also be found in different species. Field researchers studying various species have noticed that the females do not necessarily always go for the biggest and strongest males, as was once assumed under the "animals run by instinct only" way of thinking.
And this is how it works in healthy human societies, such as our own. The male makes the approach, tries to impress and please, and is either accepted or rejected by the female. Yeah, I know that's kind of an overgeneralization, but it's been more or less the way we have done things for at least a few hundred years, or more (save for political marriages between royalty and things like that.) It would seem to me to be the most natural way of doing things; arranged marriages - in which the female has no say at all - are, to me, nothing but an aberration, something that goes against our very nature.
Everything about Islam seems to short-circuit, deny, or twist everything that is good, natural, and beautiful about life. And they think they've got the right of it? Puh-leeze. The more I learn about Islamic law, customs, habits and views, the more disgusted I get, as the more unnatural it seems. Why, what they accept as proper behaviour is beneath even many beasts!
And we're supposed to accept this crap into our societies?
al-Kidya wrote:
Nudists, in a nudist camp of course, to not feel the urge to attack one another for sexual gratification. The reason being that once they become aware of their total nudity they become used to the idea...
..................
I think it's a lot more fundamental than that, al-Kidya. There's a woman who recently moved to liberal Ashland Oregon upon finding that there were no laws there banning public nudity.
She has proceeded to walk around town in the buff-at least before the weather dropped into the 30℉s. Some of her fellow townspeople are offended, some find it amusing—but she has *never* been threatened or sexually harassed by her civilized neighbors.
These people are not inured to women walking around town nude—and yet no one has attacked this woman in the street. Many people (myself included) consider her extremely silly, but *no one* has advocated for any harm to come to her, nor are they likely to.
from above:
The sexual harassment of women in the streets, schools and work places of the Arab World is driving them to cover up and confine themselves to their homes
..................
That would be the horror of Purdah—the complete, forced seclusion of women. Afghanistan under the Taliban had a policy of Purdah, where women could not venture outside their homes without being accompanied by a male relative—even in their burkhas. This is also the policy in Saudi Arabia.
Activists from 17 countries across the region met in Cairo for a two-day conference ending Monday and concluded that harassment was unchecked across the region because laws don't punish it, women don't report it and the authorities ignore it.
. . .
Statistics on harassment in the region have until recently been nonexistent, but a series of studies presented at the conference hinted at the widespread nature of the problem.
And our resident troll dave742 (or is it 45ch, I can rarely tell the difference) think that statistics can even be adduced about Muslim countries for comparison with Western countries. This article shows a glimpse into why it is worthless to even try to adduce statistics about the treatment of women in Muslim countries, particularly about Pakistan, the subject of dave's (or 45's) recent repeated comparisons with America in terms of reported rapes -- and one reasonably estimates Pakistan is far worse with regard to the situation with statistics (i.e., under-reporting by females in fear of more violence against them, if not death, as well as fearing their ostracization from jobs, careers, family, village; coupled with institutional and governmental indifference if not hostility to their plight).
"Burka Fashion Show"
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/4214
Wearing a niqab or a burkha
For protection from perverts won't wurkha.
An ignorant slob
Might see only a blob
But he still can't help going bersurkha.
Hijabs, niqabs, burkas, whatever. Their origin lies in Muslim men not having the self-control to behave as gentlemen, as men with self-discipline. Traditional female attire in the Islamic world is a constant comment on the deficiency of the Muslim male. Actually, the Muslim male is deficient in many ways, another example being the way he hides behind women and children when fighting real soldiers, proving once again that Islam is not for grown-ups but for adults who refuse to grow up.
When Shari'a is Law
When Shari'a replaces Law
Wives will again be sold
For the pleasure of old men;
Service to her master is her only grace.
When Shari'a replaces Law
girls won't go to school;
The criticism they would suffer
leaves scars that mar the flesh.
When Shari'a replaces Law
The whip will greet the wife
who leaves home un-leashed by man;
Precious possesions should be kept from view.
When Shari'a replaces Law
No doctor will view a woman
or dare to touch her skin;
In their sickness they may tempt
those whom Allah made better than they.
When Shari'a replaces Law
Doubt about rape cannot be.
As we discard meat that may be tainted;
For your father's honor, with stoning you will pay.
When Allah is victorious and the Shari'a is Law
We will be again as all our mother's have been
Since Mohammed's day; silent, devout, or dead.
Guy DeWhitney 2009
Hey Hesperado,
All we need to do, according to 45ch, is just give islam more time as we are expecting far too much from just 1400 years of terrorism, hatred and misogyny.
I'm with you, Hes, if we had all the data we'd view those countries that are predominantly islamic as sources of evil instead of poor, downtrodden and being victimized by nasty ol' Uncle Sam.
It isn't just in the Arab-Islamic world.
It also happens in the wider Muslim world.
Here is something from the archives: a bit of testimony from a woman who lived in Pakistan and then moved to Norway, who discovered that the routine - and frightening - harassment she suffered from Muslim males in her homeland, just *didn't happen* in Norway.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2005/05/the-hijab-in-pakistan-and-norway.html
Quote:
"Soon I realized that men in Norway just don't stare at any women in public places.
Imagine my feeling of excitement in my exposure to Norwegian society when I discovered that Eve-teasing {she explains that this is the term that Pakistanis use for this sexual bullying of women by men - dda} is not a universal reality.
This is one of the most cherished discoveries I have ever made [in the] whole [of] my life...".
Muslim Day on Capital Lawn.
Stay away from the sistahs.
“You don‘t need to understand to nothing‘.”
See Muslims unfamiliar with the word “ethics“.
“Discriminatory is not necessarily bad.”
“They kafirs. You’re not supposed to talk to them.”
“Who are you to tell me what to do?”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpHOt_u2sTA
What a bizarre mental exercise it is to contemplate misogyny. If you're a man and you're heterosexual you desire to have sex with women, and if you exclude the concept of rape (which is about violence and control) what are you left with? The natural, healthy desire to have sex with women. Perhaps it can be simplified by saying that misogynists "objectify" women, which is what I see that Islam teaches. A woman is less than a man and is basically property, per Mo and Allah. Every time I see a woman who has willingly converted to Islam from some other religion, I know I'm looking at a woman whose self esteem and sense of self-worth are in the toilet.
Worlds greatest detective
Lonnie Athens' work is very enlightening and it applies to Islam -- even more strongly, because Islam's ideaologies support and reward the vicious desires for vengeance. Islam sanctifies mass murder.
Worlds greatest detective
Lonnie Athens' work is very enlightening and it applies to Islam -- even more strongly, because Islam's ideaologies support and reward the vicious desires for vengeance. Islam sanctifies mass murder.
Final thoughts on Ashland Oregon nudism.
I am seriously considering relocating to Ashland, so as to provide moral support to all women who want to go 24/7 nude ... I say, "God bless 'em."
I see that some middle aged man, doing the same thing, was not so well received. I am ok with this, I am not relocating there just to get an outdoor view of the mens' locker.
One more thing ... where are the feminazis when you really need them? Why do the anti woman features of shariah go unmentioned by them? Answer: The jihadist terrorism has them scared shitless.
Hesperado wrote:
This article shows a glimpse into why it is worthless to even try to adduce statistics about the treatment of women in Muslim countries, particularly about Pakistan, the subject of dave's (or 45's) recent repeated comparisons with America in terms of reported rapes -- and one reasonably estimates Pakistan is far worse with regard to the situation with statistics (i.e., under-reporting by females in fear of more violence against them, if not death, as well as fearing their ostracization from jobs, careers, family, village; coupled with institutional and governmental indifference if not hostility to their plight).
..............................
You are so right, Hesperado. Add to this that it is estimated that *75%* of women in prison in Pakistan are serving sentences for Zina ("unlawful sex")—including the *reporting of rape*.
Here's a good article from Ibn Warraq (scroll a bit more than half-way down to "Case Histories: The Women of Pakistan"):
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/warraq_17_4.html
http://www.theatheistconservative.com/category/feminism/
Feminist are starting to speak up and out against Islam. Finally.
Living in Sana'a, the capital of Yemen we witness many interesting things. The bombing of the US Embassy last year shook our house. Several of our friends have been kidnapped. 3 were released, another 3 were killed and another 6 are missing presumed dead. When Bani Husheish were attacking near the city a year or so ago we could hear the planes dropping their bombs on them as they were only 6 miles away. These days we have fighter jets driving us crazy as they make very low swoops over the city shaking windows with their roaring engines. Foreigners are now banned from travelling out of the city in most directions as the government no longer controls the outer areas. Travel to major cities like Aden have to be by plane as the roads are blockaded. Life is very uncomfortable with electricity going off several times a day and sometimes water supplies are unavailable. In the city most people act as if all is normal - well maybe this is normal for Sana'a. However, some express their fears for the future. This really is a battleground. Alqaeda vs the Govt and supporting the rebellion in the South (Aden) as well as vowing to exterminate all foreigners from the land. The Houthis (Zaidi Shi'a) in the north seeming to have unlimited access to military resources from "no-where", though the reports are that Iran, Hamas, Hizbullah etc are assisting. The US, Saudi, Jordan and Egypt assisting the Government. The scene is set for some interesting times in the future. Hang on the ride might get rough!
So tell me proxy, what is wrong with this statement?
One of them, Julia Onken, warned that failure to ban minarets would be “a signal of the state’s acceptance of the oppression of women”. She has sent out 4,000 emails attacking Muslims who condone forced marriage, honour killings and beating women. …
I'll tell you what. The last statement REALLY NEEDS TO LOOK SOMETHING LIKE THIS:
She has sent out 4,000 emails attacking Muslims who condone forced marriage, honour killings and beating women, and beheading (sometimes on the spot) any BRAVE MUSLIM MEN who dare to question Islam, The Religionn of Peace.
So tell me proxy, what is wrong with this statement?
One of them, Julia Onken, warned that failure to ban minarets would be “a signal of the state’s acceptance of the oppression of women”. She has sent out 4,000 emails attacking Muslims who condone forced marriage, honour killings and beating women. …
I'll tell you what. The last statement REALLY NEEDS TO LOOK SOMETHING LIKE THIS:
She has sent out 4,000 emails attacking Muslims who condone forced marriage, honour killings and beating women, and beheading (sometimes on the spot) any BRAVE MUSLIM MEN who dare to question Islam, The Religionn of Peace.