Shock horror: Indian Home Minister equates jihad with terrorism

Palaniappan Chidambaram also said:
"It is a matter of our pride that Islam exists in India along with other major religions".

Maybe he meant that it was only Indians' pride in their multi-culturism and tolerance that allowed Islam to continue to exist in India, as in: "It's only because of our foolish and misguided pride in the false benefits of tolerance that Islam still exists in India. If we'd had any sense, we'd have driven it out of India long ago."

Dear Wellington, unfortunately it's taking such a long time. You may call me an impatient girl, but it's still a long, log way to go. There are so many people who still haven't realised what a fascist ideology Islam is and what kind of criminal the self-appointed prophet was. In the Nuremberg trials he would have been condemned to death, rightly so. Although I'm opposed to capital punishment in general, I could only approve it in Mahound's case.

I've just read a book by an apologist, a comparison between anti-Semitism and Islamophobia. The mere idea of comparing the two makes me sick. But you've got to read a book to review it. Comparing racism to the well-founded fear of a Nazi ideology doesn't make sense at all. But lots of people are prone to buy the idea that Islam is the religion of peace in spite of all counter evidence. If there is anything that's infinite except numbers, then it's human stupidity.

Giveth and taketh stuff. That's what this is. Folks aplenty still can't bring themselves to condemn Islam outright. They have to do so around the edges for now, such as here. This will change, and it will change before this century is over, by which time Islam will be on the trash heap of history. Wish I could live long enough to see it. By the 24th century or thereabouts Islam will be as much of a curiosity as the ancient Egyptian religion, only without the indifferent or even positive assessment.

Thanks, Jewdog. (I assume by goyim you mean all the *non-Muslim* goyim...).

And I hope that you enjoyed a very happy Hanukkah only a week ago.

A friendly woof, woof, from one variety of Infidel Dog, to another.

DDA,

Jihad is actually the equivalent of christianity's "just war" and during the revolutionary war, in the midst of "just war" or jihad,there were acts of terrorism against fellow Americans who were loyal to the British, so terrorism can happen in the midst of jihad or "just war" but its usually a small aspect of the jihad, just as a small percentage of American revolutionaries terrorized their fellow Americans who were loyal to the British.

American right wing terrorism against their fellow Americans during the revolutionary war involved the pouring of hot tar on terrorized American loyalists or in some cases the American loyalists were lynched and about 100,000 Americans fled from the US due to the terror they faced from American revolutionaries.

ref : http://en.allexperts.com/e/l/lo/loyalist_(american_revolution).htm

Fellow Americans also carried out a "jihad" or "just war" against their fellow Americans during the civil war, so "jihad" or "just war" is common among all religious groups either in the name of religion or some other ideology or combination of ideologies.

DDA,

Wish you and your family a very blessed Christmas and a blessed New Year

You cite an article that really does not support your position. You call actions against Loyalists during the American Revolution "right wing" activities. For one thing, the use of the terms "right" and "left" did not enter into the political vernacular until the French Revolution in 1789. It referred to the seating of the representatives of the National Assembly. The terms "right" and "left" would have been unknown politically in the American colonies during the American Revolutionary War(1775-83). Also, that war was not a religious war, so trying to use it as an analogy to Jihad really fails. Finally, if you insist upon using right and left out of its proper environment, you would have to define the "right" as the Loyalists who refused to sever links with the United Kingdom During the War of Independence. The revolutionary forces would have been on the "left", and those who aggressively harassed the Loyalists would have been on the "far left".

Also, you appear to be citing St. Augustine's "Just War" Doctrine. First, this is a Catholic saint, and he does not constitute a general Christian authority. If we take what he meant, it would be clear that a state could only engage in warfare for purposes of self-defense or to rescue another state from an aggressor. The Islamic conquests after Mohammed's death rarely met these criteria. Finally, the jihadists of yesterday and today have been quite clear that the lesser jihad was and is for the propagation of Islam, if conversion or subjection(jizya, etc.) were not accepted by the unbelievers.

Ice Star , you stated :

fanofdda,
"Holy War" would be the English equivalent of the word "Jihad". The American Revolutionary War was not Jihad, it was a revolution against tyranny,please educate yourself about American history before you attempt comparisons of two concepts that are completely foreign to each other.

Comment :

What is the difference between a Jihad against tyranny and a revolution against tyranny ?

When is a jihad triggered and when is a revolution triggered ?

Ice Star , you stated :

BTW,"Jihad" imposes Muslim tyranny, it does not liberate anyone.

Comment :

Jihad imposes Muslim tyranny ? and the American revolution freed all people and all people could vote ?

The American revolution did result in tyranny against the native Americans, against the Hawaiians and Filipinos, against the blacks and only white landowning males were allowed to vote after the American independence

Worry01, you stated :

Also, that war was not a religious war, so trying to use it as an analogy to Jihad really fails.

Comment :

So what triggers a Jihad and what triggers a revolution ?

Are they not both analogous ? because both are triggered by perceived injustice or the occupation of a foreign force

Worry01, you stated :

Also, you appear to be citing St. Augustine's "Just War" Doctrine. First, this is a Catholic saint, and he does not constitute a general Christian authority. If we take what he meant, it would be clear that a state could only engage in warfare for purposes of self-defense or to rescue another state from an aggressor. The Islamic conquests after Mohammed's death rarely met these criteria.

Comment :

Both the Islamic conquests and the "christian" conquests were against the "just war" doctrine of St. Augustine, so there is really nothing unique about the expansion of the islamic empire since both "christian" and Islamic empires saw their expansion as "just".

Worry01, you stated :

Finally, the jihadists of yesterday and today have been quite clear that the lesser jihad was and is for the propagation of Islam, if conversion or subjection(jizya, etc.) were not accepted by the unbelievers.

Comment :

Even so, there are numerous muslim countries today that do not have sharia and are democracies, showing that the Koran is open to interpretation and that muslims can be progressive, even if imperfect as the US was imperfect when it first got its independence and the US only gave full human rights to everybody in the 1960s when Jim Crow laws were abolished.

Today, even islamic Malaysia with Sharia has more human rights than the US had in a similar period of time after independence in which the US still had the terrorist institution of slavery and only white males could vote, 50 years after American independence.

Annie Oakley, you stated :

You obviously haven't read far enough into American history to have gotten to the chapters on the War of Northern Aggression (AKA The Civil War), much less delved into the reasons it occurred or the results it had on American society. Sometimes you need more than Cliff Notes, buddy!

Comment :

There is not much of a difference between the American civil war and the civil wars experienced by muslims.

Both kinds of wars had the ultimate goal of uniting a divided empire.

The Americans succeeded but the muslims ended up with 57 different muslim countries and today, numerous muslim countries do not have sharia and are democratic, even though imperfect, just as the US was imperfect after its independence.

Annie Oakley, you stated :

BTW, I'm not aware of any muslim country that is just brimming with rights for women, so don't try slinging mud at us in the hope that some of it will stick. Islamists are still in the Dark Ages by choice-not by necessity.

Comment :

It took the US a long time to give women the vote but even Islamic Malaysia which does have sharia, gave women the right to vote right when Malaysia got its independence from Britain, unlike the US which only gave white male landowners the right to vote after the American independence.

Annie Oakley, you stated :

My countrymen (and Westerners in general) don't fear educated women, women who vote, women who dress as we please and go where we please, women who have political opinions (or ambitions), women who have opinions of any sort, women who are independently wealthy, women who bear arms, etc.

Comment :

What does total freedom actually achieve ?

in Saudi Arabia, women are not allowed to drive but is that a bad thing ?

driving can produce stress, especially in traffic jams, so women are spared the stress of driving.

Who would not like to be chauffeured around ?

plus you can talk on the phone when somebody else is driving and get more work done that way.

The bottom line is that, there are advantages and disadvantages in every culture and society.

American freedom for women has not brought more happiness for women as can be seen by the high rates of abuse, rape, venereal disease, divorce and murder of women, compared to women in muslim countries.

The following 6 areas suggest that women seem to be safer in muslim countries or around muslims :

(1 ) the countries with the most murder rates, the top 12 are non-muslim.

ref : http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

ref : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

(2) Here is a site that records the fact that there are more non-muslims committing mass murder than muslims :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_murderers_and_spree_killers_by_number_of_victims

(3) All the killing sprees in the world are overwhelmingly committed by non-muslims:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spree_killer

(4) Compared to American muslims targeting non-muslims, many more of the non-muslim majority target muslims in America .

The targeting of innocent minorities for alleged crimes/sins perpetrated by others is common everywhere, including the US : In 2001 after the 9/11 attacks, Arab Americans, Muslims, and Sikhs were victimized in nearly five percent of the total number of hate crimes reported that year (481 out of 9,730), a seventeen-fold increase over the prior year.

http://www.civilrights.org/publications/hatecrimes/arab-americans.html

(5) Here are the facts from the US dept. of justice:

American men and women who have killed their own children or loved ones or relatives or ex-spouses between 1976 and 1997 number at 116,814 ( annual rate of 5562 )

ref : http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/wo.txt

Annual worldwide high end estimate of honor killings : 5000 per year

ref : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing

Tragically, Muslims don't follow sharia as much as non-muslims follow the ideology of hate in killing their daughters/children, loved ones, intimate partners or ex-spouses or relatives.

No matter how much sharia is out there, the sad fact is that non-muslims have been more violent towards their relatives/daughters/loved ones/ex-spouses/children/intimate partners than muslims have been been

ref : http://crime.about.com/b/2004/10/29/parents-killing-their-children.htm

(6) Both
violent and non-violent muslims in prison number about 9,600 Muslim inmates in federal prisons in 2003 out of a US prison population of 7.3 million, so out of one muslim (either violent or non-violent ) going into prison, there are about 760 non-muslims in prison, not considering converts to islam in prison since the crime was committed before their conversion.

ref : http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/03/02/record.prison.population/

ref : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States%27_prisons

Conservative estimate of the muslim population in the US taken from the Pew Research Center instead of the figures reported by the Council on American-Islamic Relations which reports 6-7 million muslims :

2.5 million muslims in 2009 out of 300 million Americans, meaning for every 1 muslim, there are about 120 Americans according to the Pew Research Center

ref : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States#Demographics

So muslims in prison ( both violent and non-violent) 1 for every 760 non-muslims

Muslims in the general US population : 1 muslim for every 120 Americans meaning there are about 6.3 times less muslims in prison as compared to the general muslim population in the US.

Non-muslims in the general US population : 297,500,000 which is about 99% of the population according to the 2009 data from the Pew Research Center

ref : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States#Demographics

Non-muslims (before converting in prison) in the prison population : 7,290,400 which is about 99% of the prison population.

If muslims in prison are 6.3 times less in number than the general muslim population in America and non-muslims in prison represent about the same proportion as the general population,so is it right to say that muslims are on the whole much less violent than non-muslims ? or even if the data is horribly skewed for some inconceivable reason, we still cannot say that muslims in America are more violent than the non-muslims in America.

Annie Oakley, you stated :

Islamist men only want women to be slaves. I'm not a slave to you or anyone else.

Comment :

There is no evidence that muslim men want women as slaves

here are videos of women who don't seem to regard themselves as slaves :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnWroPVmAQE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kbvvZs_0Zc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxM8uSZ4fL4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lb542wqO2jk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxGPaEZPY9o&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLWZZ58YF0I&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfNrGXSX7Xc&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwEOM2XNsp0&feature=related

and numerous other videos showing happy muslim girls who don't seem enslaved

The latest troll incarnate fanofdda is once again projecting rubbish. Islam conquered half of the Christian world. That was no civil war. That was an Islamist war of annihilation against the infidel and the tide was only stopped at Tours, Covadonga, on Malta and at Vienna by force of arms. And I am grateful the Jihadists were driven out of France, Spain and Austria, otherwise we would have been ruled over by the sort of savages fanofdda cheered on back in September 2001. We remember Muslims celebrating that atrocity - even here in the West. Barbarians like fanofdda endorse the murder of infidels without pity - in New York, Beslan, Bali, Mumbai, London and almost 15,000 other atrocities since 9/11 and many thousands more before. His and his fellow Muslim's desire is to exterminate all the remaining Jews left on this planet. And it is time evil parasitical scum like him were kicked out of the West and sent back to the medieval Islamic craphole where be belongs, and it is also time Western aid to those savage backwaters was terminated forthwith.

Spirit Of 1683 :

Islam conquered half of the Christian world. That was no civil war. That was an Islamist war of annihilation against the infidel and the tide was only stopped at Tours, Covadonga, on Malta and at Vienna by force of arms.

comment :

So you are saying that Islam is not powerful enough to conquer the world since the islamic empire has its limits ?

In history , all empires were expansionist in nature but you do not find any of the 57 muslim countries expanding their borders today.

War of annihilation ? so why were the "infidels" not annihilated ? if it was a war of annihilation ?

Spirit Of 1683 :

And I am grateful the Jihadists were driven out of France, Spain and Austria, otherwise we would have been ruled over by the sort of savages fanofdda cheered on back in September 2001.

Comment :

The savages you are talking about are on the run from the law, so how can savages on the run from the law be ruling over anybody ? In fact, some muslims were hunting those savages just recently ( see reference below )

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091224/wl_nm/us_yemen_alqaeda

There are millions of non-muslims living happily in muslim countries today.

I was shocked by the events of 9/11/01, even though some of the palestinians who were cheering on 9/11/01 were not shocked because they experience their own devastation on a regular basis from the Israeli air force when targeted assassinations end up killing innocent palestinian kids.

My life was transformed by 9/11/01.

Before 9/11/01, I thought the US govt could do no wrong but after 9/11/01, I started to question " why would people hate us so much as to fly airplanes into our buildings ? " and that quest for the truth led me to my anti-war pacifist stance I firmly believe in now.

Spirit Of 1683 :

We remember Muslims celebrating that atrocity - even here in the West.

Comment :

Most muslims were shocked by the events of 9/11 and there is a long list of muslims condemning the terrorists who were the murderers on 9/11/01.

Here is a long list of muslims who condemned the attacks on 9/11/01 :

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

Spirit Of 1683 :
Barbarians like fanofdda endorse the murder of infidels without pity - in New York, Beslan, Bali, Mumbai, London and almost 15,000 other atrocities since 9/11 and many thousands more before.

Comment :

Killing for any reason is wrong.

The actions of terrorists are almost always in reaction to the collateral actions of the US govt, so every time the US govt drops a bomb and kills innocent muslim kids or every time a US ally uses US weaponry to cause the collateral killings of muslim kids, you can expect a reaction from the terrorists.

Spirit Of 1683 :

His and his fellow Muslim's desire is to exterminate all the remaining Jews left on this planet.

Comment :

How can muslims be wanting to exterminate Jews, when Muslims pray together with Jews :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVEt-hOQytQ&feature=related

How can muslims be wanting to exterminate Jews when there are tens of thousands of Jews living in peace in Iran ?

Jews experienced genocide in christian lands but jews never experienced genocide in muslim lands.

ref : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Europe_(Middle_Ages)

Spirit Of 1683 :

And it is time evil parasitical scum like him were kicked out of the West and sent back to the medieval Islamic craphole where be belongs, and it is also time Western aid to those savage backwaters was terminated forthwith.

Comment :

"Evil parasitical scum" is similar language used by Hitler in describing Jews and when language depicts human beings as less than human, its easier to commit genocide on those human beings and that is exactly what happened to the Jews in "christian" Europe under Hitler.

I assume you have not met any muslims .

here is a video of an American saying that muslims are a joy to be around

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfNrGXSX7Xc&NR=1

Finally, Jesus said to be peacemakers, and in being peacemakers we will be blessed by God.

I have been blessed by God since I am a peacemaker, so join me in being a peacemaker and you will be blessed too because hate only consumes your soul like a cancer and many people have had deadly diseases because they could not stop hating and could not make peace with the enemy

Spirit,

the 80 million figure that you got was over a 500 year period in which the number of hindus becoming muslims increased by 80 million and not because 80 million were murdered

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Hindus#During_Islamic_rule_of_the_Indian_sub-continent

I'll tell you something, troll. The West is free because of those who fought to make it free. They kept it free from the barbarians you are so in love with by the sword, musket, crossbow, mace, cannon and even their bare fists if it came down to that. You are either a Muslim or a stupid Leftist. If you're a Muslim, we honour the likes of Jan Sobieski etc, because they're the reason we don't have Sharia law here in the West, at least for now. And if you're a Leftist, as you seem to be veering towards, you're defined by describing 9/11 as merely being a grievance. You're far from being a peace activist. You're an appeaser of the worst kind. Your sort would let anyone enslave us and not lift a finger to defend those freedoms that have been fought for over the centuries. People like you enabled Hitler and Tojo a mere 70 years ago. You would let anyone, especially a Jihadist, murder your family without expressing the slightest outrage, but should someone dare to defend their families successfully, you're the one who would love to see them go down for life. When civilizations fall, they fall because they produce far too many pathetic and spineless weaklings like yourself. Peace activists didn't stop Hitler or Tojo, or drive the Jihadis out of Spain or back from the gates of Vienna. Brave men and women did that, often against heavy odds. And Islam is evil, hateful and barbaric to the core, and anyone who thinks otherwise after 1,400 years of murder, repression and misogyny seriously needs to be put on medication.

Those 80 million were murdered in cold blood because they didn't want to be Muslims. Muslims have murdered at least 270 million infidels, simply because they didn't want to be Muslims, and that number would have been far higher had we in Western and Central Europe not possessed the weaponry and calibre of men required to stop them - men like Pelayo, Charles Martel, Janos Hunyadi, Jan Sobieski, Johannes Graf von Salm and so many others, rather than wet blankets like yourself. We in the West were largely on the defensive against the Jihad for over 1,000 years from the 600s to 1683 (with the exception of the Spanish Reconquista - a slow 770-years grind from Covadonga in 722 to Los Reyes Catolicos on 2nd January 1492 - the 518th anniversary of that is imminent and I'll drink a toast to it), when the Austrians finally went on the attack, driving the Jihad out of Hungary, Croatia, Slovakia, Transylvania etc between 1683 and 1718, and just over 100 years later, the Greeks started their war for independence. That was the size of the task to ensure freedom and the continuation of Western civilization - a hard-won freedom that you gratuitously abuse with your show of contempt for those who defend us 24 hours a day, which thanks to the PC brigade is becoming an increasingly thankless task for our fighting men and women. And now we're on the defensive again - hobbled by whiny self-loathing PC bleeding heart liberals like yourself who would let anyone walk over us aned put a knife to our throats, and worse still, you'd like to see it happen because you hate the West and the infidel world. Infidel lives mean nothing to you, thats why you and your sort excuse atrocities like 9/11, Bali, Beslan, Mumbai, Madrid, etc, not to mention terrorist attacks on Israel.

Spirit Of 1683 :
I'll tell you something, troll. The West is free because of those who fought to make it free.

Comment :

Except for the existence of the American empire, the days of the Islamic empire are over and no muslim country is expanding its borders today.

Spirit Of 1683 :

They kept it free from the barbarians you are so in love with by the sword, musket, crossbow, mace, cannon and even their bare fists if it came down to that. You are either a Muslim or a stupid Leftist. If you're a Muslim, we honour the likes of Jan Sobieski etc, because they're the reason we don't have Sharia law here in the West, at least for now.

Comment :

I am not a muslim. I am a pacifist christian.

There is Sharia in the UK because the UK govt. approved of those sharia laws.

But muslims can also be progressive as evidenced by numerous muslim countries that do not have sharia and are also democratic.

No muslim democracy is perfect but neither was the American democracy and only in the 1960s did all Americans get full civil rights after Jim Crow laws were abolished.

In fact, 50 year old Malaysia with its sharia laws still has more human rights compared to a similar period of time, 50 years after independence in American history, when the US had the terrorist institution of slavery and only white males could vote.

Spirit Of 1683 :

And if you're a Leftist, as you seem to be veering towards, you're defined by describing 9/11 as merely being a grievance.

Comment :

9/11 was more than a grievance.

What motivated Osama Bin Laden to declare "war" on the US govt ?

Here are the main motivations in chronological order :

(1) Osama Bin Laden read about the US govt. fire and atom bombing Japan in 1945 when Japan was already defeated as early as July of 1944 when Tojo resigned and Japan was negotiating concessions to the communists but FDR did not care about communists either killing tens of millions of civilians or that the crushing of Japan enabled communism to expand in Asia resulting in hundreds of thousands of US soldiers either dying horrifying deaths or being maimed, disfigured, deformed, blinded or paralyzed for life during the cold war.

(2) Osama Bin Laden must have read about US/Allied POWs in Japan and hundreds of thousands of Japanese children being terrorized, tortured and burned alive in the US fire and atom bombings of Japan and must have concluded that if the FDR/Truman did not care about the plight of their own US soldiers captive in Japan and the lives of hundreds of thousands of Japanese children, why should Osama bin Laden care about lives when strategic goals were more important.

(3) Osama Bin Laden read about the US government in the 50s overthrowing a democratically elected Mossadegh of Iran and eventually the Shah terrorized his own people in Iran, thanks to the military support given by the US government

(4) He read about the US government in the 60s, arming the Israeli government that used those very US weapons to collaterally kill palestinian children and babies

(5) He saw the US government in the 70s using napalm, agent orange and carpet bombing Vietnam and Cambodia, collaterally killing hundreds of thousands or even millions.

(6) He saw the US government in the 70s supporting cruel, murderous dictators like the Shah of Iran.

(7) He saw the US government in the 80s siding with the "christian" militias in Lebanon, the very christian militias that massacred muslims.

(8) He saw the US government in the 80s supporting cruel dictators like Saddam Hussein.

(9) He saw the US government in the 90s imposing cruel sanctions on Iraq, resulting in UN reports stating that half a million Iraqi children died prematurely due to the sanctions.

(10) He saw that the cruel Saudi dictatorship was being supported by the US government , the very dictatorship that tortured dissidents who opposed the stationing of US troops in Saudi Arabia.

(11) He saw that the US government never left any country in which it had troops in ( example: US troops still present in Germany and Japan, even after the war had ended decades ago).

(12) He saw that warnings to the US government to withdraw its troops from Saudi Arabia were ignored.

(13) He saw that the only way to get US troops out of Saudi Arabia was to launch a terror campaign.

(14) He saw that his terror campaign against the US had failed and US troops still remained in Saudi Arabia, 9 years after the gulf war had ended.

(15) He saw that the only sure way to get the US government to withdraw its troops from Saudi Arabia was to launch an attack on the US homeland on 9/11/01.

(16) He saw that the US government finally gave into his demands to withdraw troops, only after the 9/11 attacks, and US troops finally left Saudi Arabia in 2003, almost 13 years after the gulf war had ended

...Placing our troops in Saudi Arabia deeply affected Osama Bin Laden and the Saudi religious leadership because of the historical record of the US govt. in its dealings in the middle east and elsewhere.

An analogous way of looking at it would be America's involvement in Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan because the Soviets had their "presence" in those countries and America was afraid communism would spread if the Soviets were allowed to have their presence in Vietnam, Korea and Afghanistan and thinking along the same lines, Al-Qaeda does not want American military presence in any Muslim country, especially "holy" Saudi Arabia because Osama was afraid the US govt would continue supporting the cruel Saudi dictatorship's crack down on dissidents.

So just as America was trying to prevent communism from spreading by being militarily involved in Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan; Al-Qaeda wants to get "militarily" involved in preventing the US govt's support of cruel dictators in the middle east.

Spirit Of 1683 :

You're far from being a peace activist. You're an appeaser of the worst kind. Your sort would let anyone enslave us and not lift a finger to defend those freedoms that have been fought for over the centuries.

Comment :

Appeasement is what the US govt does when the enemy is strong as in the Cuban missile crisis when the US govt appeased the Soviet Union by removing US missiles from Turkey and when North Vietnam demanded that the US govt get out of South Vietnam and when the Chinese drove US forces from North Korea or the US govt. not demanding the unconditional surrender of either the Soviet Union or China when both the Soviet Union and China were responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of our beloved soldiers in the Korean and Vietnam wars.

My peace activism is pragmatic.

If the US govt had the foreign policies of the Swiss, not only would we be saving trillions of dollars, there would not be any terrorist attacks against us.

Spirit Of 1683 :

People like you enabled Hitler and Tojo a mere 70 years ago.

Comment :

Hitler could easily have been stopped without war if the US govt never got involved in WW1 because the rise of Hitler was made possible due to the defeat of Germany in WW1 and if the US govt never got involved in WW1, Germany would have been victorious and a strong Germany would have prevented both Nazism and Communism from expanding.

Tojo could easily have been stopped if the US govt never interfered in the Pacific.

Tojo's planning of the PearL Harbor attack was due to US govt's interference in the Pacific when the US govt was supporting the Chinese military, froze Japanese assets and imposed an oil embargo on Japan.

Spirit Of 1683 :

You would let anyone, especially a Jihadist, murder your family without expressing the slightest outrage, but should someone dare to defend their families successfully, you're the one who would love to see them go down for life.

Comment :

Why would a jihadist murder anybody's family ?

The US govt has every right to defend itself, but does not have the right to instigate the enemy through adverse US foreign policies

Spirit Of 1683 :

When civilizations fall, they fall because they produce far too many pathetic and spineless weaklings like yourself.

Comment :

Civilizations fall because it goes bankrupt due to over spending trillions on the wasteful, corrupt, bloated, greedy military/industrial pork laden corporate welfare entitlement complex.

The "defense" industry in the United States has raked in trillions of dollars during the past fifty years (one authoritative estimate puts it at nearly twenty trillion dollars).

ref : See Ken Silverstein’s Private Warriors, p. viii.

When the Cold War ended, there literally were no more enemies worth worrying about. Once the "Soviet Menace" evaporated, the defense establishment searched high and low to find enemies to keep justifying the pork barrel. Muammar Qaddafi, Manuel Noriega, Saddam Hussein, drug dealers, Castro, etc., had to be magically transformed into malevolent demons that threatened America’s very existence. America has the biggest killing machine the world has ever seen, and no military rivals. The Gulf War and pounding Yugoslavia were excuses to test weapons and increase America’s hegemony.

If the US government makes peace with Iran and co-opts the Ayatollahs as President Reagan co-opted Saddam Hussein, there will be one less enemy in the world, but that will not sit well with the those who want as many enemies as possible in order to keep the fear level high enough so that the American public will not question that 68 cents of every hard earned tax dollar or more than a trillion dollars is going every year to the bloated, greedy, wasteful, corrupt military/industrial pork laden corporate welfare entitlement complex.

The rich and powerful in the military/industrial complex are "laughing all the way to the bank " while the average American has to forgo a better and healthier standard of living due to a trillion dollars or 68 cents of every hard earned tax dollar being squandered every year on projects that have little value with the actual safety or security of the American people.

Interest payments alone on the debt incurred by funding past unnecessary wars and bloated unnecessary projects of the military/industrial complex amounts to about $250 billion a year.

ref : http://www.bu.edu/globalbeat/syndicate/anglewicz-brauer062005.html

and at this rate of spending, the US will eventually become a third rate economy with lower standards of living for the average American while social security benefits will be cut, health care rationed, cuts in high quality education and cuts in all essential projects and essential services like medical research, essential research on curing deadly diseases, pollution controls, poisons controls, terrorism prevention, infrastructure maintenance , food safety inspections, utilities maintenance, traffic congestion prevention, gun violence prevention, gang violence prevention etc etc.

Spirit Of 1683 :

Peace activists didn't stop Hitler or Tojo, or drive the Jihadis out of Spain or back from the gates of Vienna. Brave men and women did that, often against heavy odds.

Comment :

It does not take a war to stop a criminal.

All it takes is intelligent covert operations before they get a chance to acquire power.

But once a dictator is in power, we have to be like President Reagan, when President Reagan co-opted Saddam Hussein in the 80s and President Reagan even took Iraq off the list of states sponsoring the palestinian terrorists.

Spirit Of 1683 :

And Islam is evil, hateful and barbaric to the core, and anyone who thinks otherwise after 1,400 years of murder, repression and misogyny seriously needs to be put on medication.

Comment :

All followers of all religions can be hateful, evil and barbaric but the religion itself cannot make anybody do anything.

Its called free will and even though the 19 hijackers were adversely influenced by US foreign policy, US foreign policy did not override anybody's free will , just as the Koran cannot over ride anybody's free will

Yes, islam and US foreign policy influence people to do murderous things but in the end, the criminals have to be blamed and not the ideology or policy.

Today, muslims have proven to be progressive as can be seen by the following muslim countries that do not have sharia and are democratic and even much more democratic than the US during a similar time period after US independence :

Albania

Turkey

Kosovo

Azerbaijan

Bosnia and Herzegovina

Kazakhstan

Burkina Faso

Chad

Tajikistan

Gambia

Mali

Kyrgyzstan

Senegal

Turkmenistan

Spirit,

You need to give references when you say muslims murdered 80 million and 275 million.

People in all religions have been mass murderers.

The advantage that christianity has over islam is that christianity started 600 years before islam started, so christianity has a 600 year head start on islam while islam in very few places on earth is the equivalent of 15 th century christianity, the century in which Joan of Arc was burned alive, the terrorist institution of the inquisition began and the Pope authorized Spain and Portugal to divide the world amongst themselves.

So even though christianity has had a 600 year head start on Islam, only in the 1960s did the "christian" US govt give full civil rights to all citizens by abolishing Jim Crow Laws.

But even today, there a numerous muslim countries that have progressed and do not have sharia laws and are democratic and in fact more democratic than the US was during a similar time period after independence when the US govt still had the terrorist institution of slavery and only white males could vote, 50 years after American independence.

Malaysia with its sharia laws has more human rights at the age of 50 , compared to when the US was 50 years old with its terrorist institution of slavery and only white males could vote.

Fanofdda,
you're full of shit, as is anyone who cites so many YouTube videos and Wikipedia "articles" to shore up their arguments. Wikipedia can be edited by the reader, so it can be made to say whatever you want it to say. YouTube is no better.

Have you forgotten that some muslim nations were keeping slaves as late as 2005, at which point the practice was officially outlawed (though there is still widespread slavery)? My my, what a convenient fit of amnesia!!!!

Oh, and I don't need the likes of you to decide what stress I will be subjected to. I will continue to drive, ride bicycles & motorcycles, carry firearms, vote, drink beer, eat pork, pet the dog, deploy to the Middle East and kick islamists' asses, listen to music, pick the banjo, bathe on a regular basis, behave with honor, make sure my local schools are not forcing Christians to eat muslim food, and pretty much anything else I can possibly think of that will piss off islamists like you.

2010 is going to be a great year! I hope to go to Afghanistan and make my presence known over there, too, LMAO!!!!

Sorry, it does not hold. You are trying to compare things that are not remotely similar, and it is silly. Try reading things without reference to your Islamist websites.

You are dealing with someone who just rambles on and on. He really does not respond to people seriously, but just moves on to the next ramble. You are dealing with someone suffering from verbal diarrhea. He thinks that simply filling pages is enough to answer people. His ignorance is palapable, and his disinterest in actually understanding anything outside of his Islamist prism is all too evident. It is like dealing with a lowgrade Marxist from the past. If it is not handed out at a meeting, it is untrue or corrupt and definitely of no interest.

May I add to your fine list?

Vlad The Impaler Tepes also held the Muslim hoard at bay with his stakes. He is quite the hero in Romania today.

What I wouldn't give if BO instead of channeling FDR would channel Vlad instead. :)

I will not add to the fine posts directed at you, you know nothing of the American Revolution and apparently do not posses access to a dictionary or encyclopedia. Therefore it is pointless to continue debating you on the difference between "Jihad" and "Revolution".

Some of my ancestors came here fleeing religious persecution in England, they were Quakers. Here they could practice their faith freely and without harassment.

How many countries in Dar al Islam can a Christian practice their faith freely openly and without fear or harassment?

All of American History is acknowledged and examined here in the USA. No one hides or denies our faulty past and the mistakes that our settlers, founders, and immigrant population have made. There is an entire museum as the Smithsonian solely dedicated to American Indian cultures.

I will remind you also that the culture of the founding fathers and mothers of this country viewed the husband and wife as sharing the vote, the husband cast the vote for both of them.It was assumed that only the people who were educated and literate were qualified to vote. Owning land also implied a personal stake in the outcome of the vote.

As times changed, women petitioned for and won the right to vote as individuals. Our culture evolved along with our language and technological and scientific advances.

All of these events as well as others were able to occur because of the framework of the Constitution, and the freedom it grants all citizens.

It is rather easy to compare the USA and its achievements with those of Dar al Islam. Islam lays waste to other cultures, a free people preserves and discovers them. For example Egyptian history.

I recommend that you spend some time becoming educated a bit before you make statements about the American Revolution and American history.

A brief cursory look on a few web pages is NOT an education.

Islam being seen for what it is and its demise is taking a longer time than it should, epistemology, and your impatience is completely understandable. My patience is tried too on many occasions respecting the determination by way too many not to see Islam for the supremacist, repressive, stupid, stultifying and violent ideology which it is. But I have tried to take the long view, one which involves a length of time more than just a few decades. As I've mentioned before here at JW, I think we are in a new Hundred Years War and that there will be many tragedies worldwide because of Islam and because of continued ignorance of Islam. But I am convinced that eventually Islam is finished. It is rotten to its very essence and it cannot last, though you and I will probably not live to see the almost total discrediting of this truly warped belief system. I guess you could say that short-term I'm a pessimist but long-term put me down as an optimist about the final fate of Islam.

May you have a Happy New Year and a year filled with good times with family and friends, even while that dark Islamic cloud hovers over all of us for a period of time which even one extra day's worth is, from a humanitarian and common sense perspective, still too long. After all, we can defy Islam in part by enjoying our lives most of the time. Take care, my friend.