Feeding the hand that bites them

I received this interesting email from an Australian military officer, referring to this post:

Dear Robert,

I was interested to read about British troops helping build a mosque in Afghanistan.

When I was in Aceh with the Australian Army following the Tsunami, despite this being the main stronghold for political Islam in Indonesia, and despite youths running around in OBL T-shirts, a well-meaning but surprisingly naive Australian senior army surgeon asked soldiers to put money into a hat at eid al adha to, you guessed it, help rebuild their mosque. After explaining how eid al adha is the “point of departure” between Judaism and Christianity vs Islam, he went on about how we are all Abrahamic cousins, without the slightest clue about how that in fact represents replacement theology of the worst kind on the part of Islam.

Anyway, I refused, saying exactly what you did, to wit that it would be used to preach hatred towards us and that that could manifest in tangible ways. I said that we had given 1 or 2 months away from our families and seen all sorts of horrible things (and helped hundreds of wounded) and that is the payment I would make. I would not put a cent into rebuilding their house of hate.

These sorts of dhimmi vs enlightened discussions are rare, unfortunately, as the Australian Army is riddled with either under-informed or misinformed individuals. The post-modernist left are not all that apparent, but some misguided but otherwise observant christians are quite prominent. This particular surgeon is a good man who has done great things and is very active in his (Roman Catholic) church, but for every copy of your books, or most recently Lee Harris’ “Suicide of Reason” I lend him, he will read something by Fisk or Jeremy Scahill (Blackwater). It’s very frustrating.

I think it is a really uphill battle to counter the fear of being labelled racist in the military environment. As I have said to many others before, political correctness doesn’t just result in ostracism, but is backed up by Defence Force Discipline Act and can result in a charge.

Islamic jihadist teaches at London School of Economics
Shocker in Aceh: 3 Sharia police "misused their power," and are accused of gang rape
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Comments

  1. says

    Once again, our biggest enemy is ignorance.

    Now, we all know that; the biggest question remains: how to get through to common people without looking (to them) like bigots. We all know the reactions, we’re all dealing with it.

    First, I think the main discussion today should be that. How to get through.

    I think the approach should be to ‘tease’ a person to learn more, not preach.
    We have to be really careful with people. Most have been brought up to jump at the slightest hint of discrimination. Muslims know that well and have been successfully playing this game.

    If you approach a Lib, you can’t talk about “jihad against the West”, he’ll stop listening right there. A question like “I wonder how does a moderate muslim deal with jihad as a duty in islam” could get him thinking.

    You really have to go easy on people who are feeding off MSNBC and the likes.

  2. says

    Ted states:

    “Once again, our biggest enemy is ignorance

    . . .and Muslim Brotherhood approved national security measures.
    Whistleblower comments to Bill Whittle:

    Bill Whittle:

    “Can you tell us how these radical Islamic organizations interface directly with the Federal Government in terms of the Defense Department, in terms of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, uh, local law enforcement, how exactly do these radical Muslim groups use their connections to suppress the defenses of the United States against these types of activities?”

    Former Special Agent FBI:

    “That’s a great question. At the National level, with the FBI and DHS, they actually, they are invited in by General Counsel’s office of the FBI and DHS to sit in on brain storming about investigative techniques that our FBI agents are using out in the field.

    Bill Whittle:

    “I have to stop you because, frankly, that sounds so absurd that I really have to really make sure I’m understanding you correctly. Are you saying, that the radicalized Muslim groups are invited in to learn our investigative techniques – that they are invited in to get their feedback on how we are going to fight against them? Is that what I understood you to say?”

    Former Special Agent FBI:

    “Yes. So, for instance, in the FBI, the General Counsel of the FBI, Valerie Capone invited these Muslim organizations as well as the ACLU and other groups in to make sure that the investigative techniques and the Attorney General guidelines and the way the FBI was going to implement the general guidelines was ok and not offensive to these organizations. As an investigator, and certainlyspeaking for many others that I know, that’s nothing short of outrageous. If you can imagine any group, whether its the Cosa Nostra, the Mafia, or any kind of organizaed crime syndicate, certainly the Muslim Brotherhood could loosely fall into that category. Certainly, it’s much much more significant than the Mafia was. But to invite them in to make sure that our investigative techniques are sensitie to John Gotti – I mean, that’s absurd on the face of it. But that’s exactly what we’re doing. “

    Bill Whittle:

    “Sure, because you’re revealing in great detail exactly what your investigative and interrogation techniques are. I mean, in a meeting like that, you’re giving away the farm essentially in terms of how you are going to be operating in order to make sure that their feelings don’t get hurt. And then, you’re essentially, you are giving the enemy all of the details about how you plan to operate against them. Right?”

    Former Special Agent FBI:

    “Certainly a significant strategic look at how we’re doing things, yes. As well as some specific techniques.”

    Bill Whittle:

    “Well, you mentioned earlier that there’s no training. That people ranging from upper level administrators in the FBI down to some local Sheriff’s deputy in some county out in the middle of Arizona, someplace, local – local law enforcement. You mention that there is no training for these people whatsoever in terms of the real nature of the threat. Why is that?”

    Former Special Agent FBI:

    “Oh, again, I think there are a lot of pieces to that. But number one is, when the people advising the assistant directors, the special agents in charge in the FBI, the assistant secretaries, and the Department of Homeland Security etc., when those are Muslim Brothers, you’re not going to get training that discusses Islamic doctrine and who the Muslim Brotherhood is, their history and their influence and their penetration operations here in the United States. And, to boot, the people who ARE training the FBI are groups like CAIR which is a HAMAS entity and an unindicted co-conspirator in the largest terrorism financing trial in the United States .”

    Bill Whittle:

    “I have to stop you again because this is virtually impossible for me to process. You’re saying that the training that our Counter Terrorism forces get is determined by radical Islamic groups like the Muslim Brotherhood?”

    Former Special Agent FBI:

    “No, I’m not saying it’s determined – it’s given by them. They’ve been in our FBI field offices. They’ve been in our FBI headquarters teaching and training our agents and our employees. “

    View the entire 14 minute interview at PJTV

  3. says

    Ted states:

    “Once again, our biggest enemy is ignorance

    . . .and Muslim Brotherhood approved national security measures.
    Whistleblower comments to Bill Whittle:

    Bill Whittle:

    “Can you tell us how these radical Islamic organizations interface directly with the Federal Government in terms of the Defense Department, in terms of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, uh, local law enforcement, how exactly do these radical Muslim groups use their connections to suppress the defenses of the United States against these types of activities?”

    Former Special Agent FBI:

    “That’s a great question. At the National level, with the FBI and DHS, they actually, they are invited in by General Counsel’s office of the FBI and DHS to sit in on brain storming about investigative techniques that our FBI agents are using out in the field.

    Bill Whittle:

    “I have to stop you because, frankly, that sounds so absurd that I really have to really make sure I’m understanding you correctly. Are you saying, that the radicalized Muslim groups are invited in to learn our investigative techniques – that they are invited in to get their feedback on how we are going to fight against them? Is that what I understood you to say?”

    Former Special Agent FBI:

    “Yes. So, for instance, in the FBI, the General Counsel of the FBI, Valerie Capone invited these Muslim organizations as well as the ACLU and other groups in to make sure that the investigative techniques and the Attorney General guidelines and the way the FBI was going to implement the general guidelines was ok and not offensive to these organizations. As an investigator, and certainlyspeaking for many others that I know, that’s nothing short of outrageous. If you can imagine any group, whether its the Cosa Nostra, the Mafia, or any kind of organizaed crime syndicate, certainly the Muslim Brotherhood could loosely fall into that category. Certainly, it’s much much more significant than the Mafia was. But to invite them in to make sure that our investigative techniques are sensitie to John Gotti – I mean, that’s absurd on the face of it. But that’s exactly what we’re doing. “

    Bill Whittle:

    “Sure, because you’re revealing in great detail exactly what your investigative and interrogation techniques are. I mean, in a meeting like that, you’re giving away the farm essentially in terms of how you are going to be operating in order to make sure that their feelings don’t get hurt. And then, you’re essentially, you are giving the enemy all of the details about how you plan to operate against them. Right?”

    Former Special Agent FBI:

    “Certainly a significant strategic look at how we’re doing things, yes. As well as some specific techniques.”

    Bill Whittle:

    “Well, you mentioned earlier that there’s no training. That people ranging from upper level administrators in the FBI down to some local Sheriff’s deputy in some county out in the middle of Arizona, someplace, local – local law enforcement. You mention that there is no training for these people whatsoever in terms of the real nature of the threat. Why is that?”

    Former Special Agent FBI:

    “Oh, again, I think there are a lot of pieces to that. But number one is, when the people advising the assistant directors, the special agents in charge in the FBI, the assistant secretaries, and the Department of Homeland Security etc., when those are Muslim Brothers, you’re not going to get training that discusses Islamic doctrine and who the Muslim Brotherhood is, their history and their influence and their penetration operations here in the United States. And, to boot, the people who ARE training the FBI are groups like CAIR which is a HAMAS entity and an unindicted co-conspirator in the largest terrorism financing trial in the United States .”

    Bill Whittle:

    “I have to stop you again because this is virtually impossible for me to process. You’re saying that the training that our Counter Terrorism forces get is determined by radical Islamic groups like the Muslim Brotherhood?”

    Former Special Agent FBI:

    “No, I’m not saying it’s determined – it’s given by them. They’ve been in our FBI field offices. They’ve been in our FBI headquarters teaching and training our agents and our employees. “

    View the entire 14 minute interview at PJTV

  4. says

    Thank you miira. It is hard to believe, but then again, in today’s reality, it really isn’t.

    What we should be brainstorming, is how to win back our Left!

  5. says

    By saying what you say to the good doctor you shake his very foundational truth that, “all cultures are equal”. In order to dampen the shockwaves, cognitive dissonance is brought to bear quickly restoring the natural order of the hapless dhimmi.

  6. says

    A few years ago my father heard something interesting on the radio (South Australia). A man rang up the radio station and said he was in a taxi in Jakarta and it stopped at a traffic light. Some children ran up to the car with a tin and said they were collecting for charity. The man gave them some money and then asked what the money would be used for. “To kill the Christians in Aceh!” the children replied, to the man’s utter astonishment.
    This was quite a while ago, before the tsunami, and the ensuing tsunami of Western money which went to this area, about half of which (according to a recent report) went missing or was used for purposes which donors would have been unhappy about. The report also detailed the general loathing in Aceh for the West, and Christianity in particular, which had existed before the tsunami – and mentioned the grand mosques which were being built in Aceh.
    This Australian military officer must stay in the army, and get promoted amd promoted, until he rises to a position from which he can effect change.
    Be patient, sir: the truth will out.

  7. says

    Unlike Christopher Hitchens, I normally would not be one to criticize Mother Theresa, but apparently she once used money to build a mosque which the Indian government had given her to build a church.

    A couple of years ago I related this story to a Muslim who had said to me that, compared to Mohammed, “Mother Theresa was worse than Hitler.” (Seriously–this should tell us all something about the depth of Mo-worship among most Muslims.) He had no response, naturally, but I suspect he thought Mother Theresa was simply a foolish dhimmi for having donated the money for a mosque.

  8. says

    This is the equivalent of General Patton commanding the WW2 troops to mend the fences around Auschwitz. And rebuild those guard towers while you’re at it.

    We seem to have forgotten the objective of this war: victory over the enemy, subjugation of the enemy, and occupation of the enemy’s lands until they can be removed as a world threat.

    OK, so it never was OUR objective. What does the Qu’ran say about war? Let’s go with that.

  9. says

    (Sorry, this is again a bit OT)

    There’s a great clip of Maryam Namazie speaking about Muslim Honor Killings. It’s not new and I’m sure many of you have seen it.
    But it is a very strong one and it sends a message that cannot be ignored or dismissed. It needs to be repeated and heard by many more.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_3VvZkwujI

  10. says

    Even if everyone on the planet, including Robert Spencer, would disagree with me, I’d still assert:

    Islam is not an Abrahamic religion

    The rest is all pretense and deception. Check the sources…

  11. says

    Once More, With Feeling!

    How to wage war with defeat as the goal: When fighting an enemy united by an ideology (Islam) that has you as the eternal despised enemy (the kufar), make certain that you honor the enemy’s ideology and shore it up.

    Had we done this with German Nazism (an ideology) and Japan’s supremacist, militaristic “divine” Emperor-worship (an ideology), we could have achieved the same goal that we are striving for in rebuilding Islamic lands without destroying the ideology that makes them our enemies: Defeat.

  12. says

    In the introduction to “The Legacy of Jihad” Andrew Bostom quotes C. Snouck Hurgronje, possibly the greatest of all Western scholars of Islam, in his “The Acehnese” (Vol. 1):

    “From Mohammedanism (which for centuries she [i.e., Aceh] is reputed to have accepted) she really only learnt a large number of dogmas relating to hatred of the infidel without any of their mitigating concomitants; so the Acehnese made a regular business of piracy and man-hunting at the expense of the neighboring non-Mohammedan countries and islands, and considered that they were justified in any act of treachery or violence to European (and latterly to American) traders who came in search of pepper, the staple product of the country. Complaints of robbery and murder on board ships trading in Acehnese parts thus grew to be chronic.”

  13. says

    “Yes. So, for instance, in the FBI, the General Counsel of the FBI, Valerie Capone invited these Muslim organizations as well as the ACLU and other groups in to make sure that the investigative techniques and the Attorney General guidelines and the way the FBI was going to implement the general guidelines was ok and not offensive to these organizations. As an investigator, and certainlyspeaking for many others that I know, that’s nothing short of outrageous. If you can imagine any group, whether its the Cosa Nostra, the Mafia, or any kind of organizaed crime syndicate, certainly the Muslim Brotherhood could loosely fall into that category. Certainly, it’s much much more significant than the Mafia was. But to invite them in to make sure that our investigative techniques are sensitie to John Gotti – I mean, that’s absurd on the face of it. But that’s exactly what we’re doing. “

    If ever a passage reeked of defeat for the West, the above must surely be it.

  14. says

    To this Australian military officer who is, presumably, quietly lurking here and who has been, presumably, quietly informing himself:

    if so be you are reading here: *thank you, sir*. I, also an Australian (as are quite a few who post here – I’m sure you’ll have noticed this) feel just a tiny bit safer in my bed to know that you, at least, are fully informed. Know that I am praying most fervently for the enlightenment of our defence forces as regards the Third Jihad.

    You may like – if you have not already done so – to point army chaplains in the direction of two books by Rev Dr Mark Durie (who studied the Acehnese language and culture). Here is Durie’s blog.

    http://www.markdurie.com/

    The first – ‘Revelation? Do We Worship the Same God?’ being a brief, clear, easily readable analysis of the disjunction between the Biblical faiths (Christianity and Judaism) and Islam; the second being a discussion of dhimmitude – ‘The Third Choice: Islam, Dhimmitude, and Freedom’. ‘Revelation?’ is slim enough to fit in a back pocket, wears its rock-solid scholarly learning lightly, and could be understood readily by any soldier who has the equivalent of a good high school education. It’s the sort of book chaplains could discreetly hand around, or use as a basis for informal study sessions.

    Durie’s resume:
    “Dr Mark Durie is a theologian, human rights activist and pastor of an Anglican church. He has published many articles and books on the language and culture of the Acehnese, Christian-Muslim relations and religious freedom. A graduate of the Australian National University and the Australian College of Theology, he has held visiting appointments at the University of Leiden, MIT, UCLA and Stanford, and was elected a Fellow of the Australian Academy of the Humanities in 1992.”

    You could also encourage army chaplains to read Durie’s analysis (and that done by Canon Dr Patrick Sookhdeo) of ‘A Common Word’, that sweetly-sinister letter full of flowery nothing and lethal double-meanings which sent by the Muslims, in October 2007, to the leaders of all major Christian groups, eastern and western. If you poke around it is possible to find the text of Sookhdeo’s discussion online.

    This ANZAC day I will be thinking of you. This ANZAC day when I am attending a memorial march, I will as usual take the opportunity to strike up conversation with others round about, my fellow citizens, and get them thinking about the nature of this war that is waged against us by the Ummah, in all its various manifestations.

    Keep on keeping on, sir.

  15. says

    Oops.

    Preview is my friend…

    The phrase in my posting above that reads “that sweetly-sinister letter full of flowery nothing and lethal double-meanings which sent by the Muslims”, should read, “that sweetly-sinister letter full of flowery nothings and lethal double-meanings which was sent by the Muslims”.

  16. says

    The mentioned problem of the ignorance, disinterest but also of the wish to defend “pitiable” Muslims, to be impartial of so large a percentage of Westerners is one I have wrestled with too for a long time. With my family, friends, colleagues, everywhere I like to discuss Islam and Democracy.

    Lee Harris in “Suicide of Reason” helped me a lot by explaining why so many Westerners are in a way acting so “suicidal”. It struck me as so true that so many Westerners, mostly, but not always, being underinformed or misinformed, just desire above all to be IMPARTIAL, above the parties. They want to be as fair as possible to everyone. And they perceive that the poor Muslims are being offended, discriminated against.

    I support the views of Ted and Dumbledore’s army above of course. And in my view the current “good cop-bad cop”-approach, which seems to happen in practice is also very good.

    The “bad cops” are the merciless Islam-Critics, like Robert Spencer, Ali Sina, Ayaan, Wafa and in politics Geert Wilders (a veritable boogeyman for many Muslims AND ordinary Westerners). The “good cops” then can be mainstream politicians and ordinary people everywhere.

    We can get ourselves very well informed, about teachings of Islam and actions of lack thereof by Muslims and we can vary between playing good cops and bad cops. The bad cops get Muslims and their defenders angry. And thus they force them to think and argue hard. Without bad cops Muslims & defenders would mostly NOT bother to think/ argue, but just remain intransigent.

    And then the good cops can try to reason and make some headway. If Muslims and defenders are not responding reasonably, they get ever more harsh opposition from the bad cops and they lose ever more credibility with impartial onlookers.

    Bad cops are Muslims’ enemies, but also watchdogs, and if Muslims do behave as badly as described by the watchdogs, then other Muslims & their defenders, which at times may be their victims or witnesses of their bad behavior, more & more may decide that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”.

  17. says

    ‘Ted | January 15, 2010 1:30 PM | Reply’, is so right!

    Endless patience is required. There is a terrible history to teach. We, in the West, have only received a disjointed shallow history, at best. These sites are the few that [dare I say it] ‘C-o-n-n-e-c-t-t-h-e-d-o-t-s’ of our linked histories. I blame, no not really, I bless the day I registerd for the internet. It has opened up a free world of information that I have been surfing for a while now.

    Preaching never worked. Prohibition never worked. ‘Teasing’ people to learn more themselves is the key. BUT.. relentless patience by the teachers is needed. Developing new dedicated teachers for the future too, is the next step!
    Already, I have noticed a turnaround in thinking about the deadly terrorism and what to do about it. I have noticed more stories of people standing up and being counted, too.

    We just keep plugging away, until ENLIGHTENMENT!

  18. says

    I second the comments by Dumbledor’s Army – we need more informed officers in the military who will not acquiesce to the political correctness gone mad that permeates our government and defence hierarchies when it comes to Islam and its pernicious influence. The officer concerned and all the other Australian and US military who were in Aceh on that humanitarian mission were in real danger while they were there. Extremists from Java went to Aceh not just to help their fellow Muslims at a time a greatest need (like Front Pembala Islam – FPI) but to also target and actually plan to attack the Western aid workers and military in particular. We were aware of several ‘close calls’ which, ironically, were prevented by local Acehnese Ustadz (imams). To understand, hatred of the Javanese is deeply rooted in Aceh and will always overcome any feelings of religious solidarity they may otherwise have with fellow conservative Muslims. And all this in the modern secular democracy that is Indonesia.

    We in Australia have to come to (realistic) terms living next to the most populous Muslim nation on earth. The political correctness that forbids the naming of the enemy that will constantly seek to undermine and destroy us is absolute madness. I have been taken aside by a well-meaning senior government official and told to stop saying such things like ‘Islamic’ together with ‘terrorists’ and ‘extremists’ – I daresay the Australian officer may have suffered the same form of censorship given his accurate remarks about the disciplinary charges one may find themselves on.

    So we must be careful but persistent. We must remain in government and the military to continue to provide the alternate view to that which prevails at present until such time as a government leadership will come to their senses. We must do all in our power to ensure that one day that will come about before the tidal wave of jihad washes our shores.

  19. says

    I agree with Doc above. While I didn’t know of specific threats, and I would like to know more about them, I was aware of a “Yemeni” contingent who set up beside us. They were Indons in “Yemeni” T-shirts not Yemenis. Ironically it was the same well-meaning surgeon who expressed concern at this, remarking that a lot of ANFO could fit into the building they occupied (the physiotherapy department if I recall correctly).

  20. says

    All good points, Ted.

    Here’s what I do:

    When I know someone has a story like the one in today’s LA Times where they name the Chicago duo accused of helping plan the Mumbai attacks I do a little research, find out about David Coleman Headley , find the article that shows his original name (AKA Daood Gilani) and then show the person how they just got lied to by the MSM.

    There are a ton of these things daily and if you hit the right note you’ll create another inquisitive person who will spread the word.

  21. says

    I agree with your approach. You can very easily lose folks if you tell them too much at once about Islam. In fact, what I have found to be most efficacious is to provide them with just one or two pieces of information, usually quite specific, and then say nothing, letting them come to their own conclusion. A good example here, particularly with females, is to mention that Islamic religious law requires at least four male witnesses for a woman to prove a charge of rape. Nothing more need be said. On many occasions, I have had a woman reply something to the effect that such a requirement is repulsive as well as deeply stupid. A small victory for liberty and truth generally characterizes my thinking after such a response.

  22. says

    “To kill the Christians in Aceh!” the children replied, to the man’s utter astonishment.
    This was quite a while ago, before the tsunami”

    Oh yeah – We should have NEVER donated our money to the people that hate us, tsunami or no tsunami. End of story.

  23. says

    The hatred persists because it is independent of any reality. You have many Muslims howling about Jews, even though they have never lived near any, much less interacted with them. A genuine Muslim can never take a non-Muslim as a genuine friend, even though the non-Muslim is upright, non-threatening, etc. One is dealing with a deeply ingrained ideology that is quite impervious to facts.

  24. says

    Wellington!
    You are an incredible thinker and writer!! You are on the same level as Krauthammer. Why don’t you come over here and become a Fox News contributer so that millions can learn and be entertained at the same time?

    You are also like Glenn Beck…he’s smart, funny and educational…so are you. I always learn something from your commentaries.

    I hope to be able to read your posts for a very long time.